Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

The question is:  Does powerlessness deserve respect?  Everyone knows it is wise to know what, where and who is the Power and hold respect for IT.  What is the experience of Powerlessness?  What kinds of response does powerlessness attract?   

Last evening I spent a little time with a group nurturing awareness of personal worth and abilities.  Goals, ways and means, eliminating hazards.  What is really one's heart's desire?

Recently/currently I've been restless and needy. 
At my age (70*Stars+) I have some loss of hearing, I move more slowly than I did when younger.  Anyone who continues to add years to life, can look back and see the losses of living life. 

Through last evening's process I discovered what my heart desires.  It desires respect for my powerlessness.    Not anger and/or rejection. 

I would like to hear of others' aging experience in regard to disrespect.    

Joyous Mary
1937    

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Joyous Mary, this is such an important conversation, because it points to exactly what a person fears about getting older: the loss of the skills and strengths that have defined us.

Once again, you've brought it to the forefront, and I feel that respect is definitely something that everyone deserves, whether or not they are powerless.

I'm wondering: when you see yourself losing power physically, do you not also see yourself as gaining power in other aspects? Thinking of my parents, now 84 - though they have lost their physical strength, and in my mother's case, even in a large part, memory - they have become calmer, more gentle and accepting of those around them, and so they still attract visitors and the respect of people. Of course, it is partly also a cultural thing. In India, respect for elders is ingrained into us.

I'd love to hear others talk about this important subject.

Meenakshi
1956

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Thank you Meenakshi for your post. I  just turned 70 and can help you with your loss of hearing in that I am a sign language interpreter for my deaf wife. I understand your dilemma.

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Thank you Arthur, for mentioning the dilemma of living with loss of hearing. 

For me it is a mixed blessing.  I am mostly alone so do not need to hear conversation. 
I forget to use my hearing aides. 

My children except for one all live hours away.  But when we do spend any amount of time together, they become impatient when I say, “I'm sorry.  I missed that.  What did you say?”  

I imagine they are angry because they expect their mother with 72-year old ears to hear like 45.

When on the phone for business matters, I sometimes need to explain to the other party that my ears are 72-years old and have slowed down and don't hear very well either.  Would they please speak more slowly and a little more clearly?  

I understand though because I too forget my own age.  I may look and for the most part feel younger but parts of my body, like my ears remind me otherwise. 

The nice part of diminished hearing is to be able to remove the batteries from the hearing aides when in a noisey environment such as a grocery store where there may be a tired, cranky child letting the world know that it needs a nap. 

I can shut down the noise and tune up the humor.

Joyous Mary
1937  

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

In America, youth is revered.  It is true after turning 77, I have shaky hands that do not write as clearly, my ears have aids, I didn't pass eyesight test to get driver's license so have to get new glasses, but those are not holding me back,  I do not feel powerless.  I can pretty much do every day what I like which is read, learn new things on the internet.  Right now I'm reading Dr. Eric Pearl's Reconnection.  Amazing story of his healing abilities. Most of my children and grandkids are grown with their own lives, so don't really see them much.  My grandson just graduated from college so we did go out to eat in San Diego to celebrate.  Bob and I also have 5th wheel trailer and we are planning trip to mountains for a few weeks.  I have had 3 husbands, and they have passed.  My current companion (Bob) and I have been together for 25 years without benefit of marriage.  Bob is a better husband than the ones I married.  LOL
I agree with Meenakshi that as we age, we become wiser and gentler!
Blessings to all!
Betty in San Diego
May 1932

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

I am 73 years old.  For the past 35 years I have been involved with a spiritual life which can be seen through my web site, www.onlinehumanities.com.  This program was created to help people think much better with their hearts through a spiritual study of Liberal Arts.  Through this work I feel younger every day.  As my physical life declines, my spiritual life opens up.  There is a whole new world available to us all as we are better able to transform the sense perception world into the world of spiritual self conscious awareness.

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

I am deeply grateful for all comments re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process.  And, I do agree with all of you, Flax, Betty and Meenakshi, that this New Age we are at is really better than any other period experienced. 
I have some dark humor about it.   “Why worry about the future?  It's getting shorter all the time.”   

I am growing more peaceful and content everyday.  

It is the lack of respect from those young enough to be our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren that causes me to wonder if having ageing symptoms is a reason for disrespect. 

I was going to ask here:  How does one avoid being affected by the disrespect from loved ones?
But I think I am seeing the answers in your responses.   Continue the path that has brought me to who I am today.  Remain engrossed in my spiritual seeking and enjoy the discoveries and share.  Expand.  It ain't over yet. 

Joyous M.
1937
    

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Inspired words! I also got a message in response to yr original post:
Sent about 20 hours ago
by Cindy I am a mixed bag. I obtained my BA at 70 and am currently pursuing my Master's. Am also a sub teacher.

Healthwise, I take medications for diabetes, high blood pressure, acid reflux and high cholesteral; most is in control, I have a problem keeping my diabetes in check. I have had a TIA, had pre-cancerous spots taken off my face, and suffer from arthritis and fibromyalga and now nodules on my thyroid.

I have a problem with disrespect  in the issue that I have a 90 year old mother-in-law; she has virtually no major health issues other than a bad knee that she refused to get fixed, and takes pills for high blood pressure. She thinks her allergies are the end of the world. She is waited on, hand and foot, by my husband. She wants for nothing. He is at her house for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and at 8 PM. the rest of the time he is running his home tax business. He gets cranky and fed up-I get the brunt of his dissatifaction.

The other issue is amusing; I have always looked much younger and I enjoy a lot of things, so again, nobody thinks of me as old-no respect!!!

Keep your chin up; just think about what you have and will- accomplish in life.

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Thank you Meenakshi for Cindy's comments. 

Cindy:  I find myself grinning after reading your comments because I too am drug dependent for HPB, RLS, GERD, ADD, High Cholesterol, Diabetes II, and Sleep Apnea.  I use hearing aids when I think I will want to hear something.  I use a C-Pap when I sleep to keep me breathing.  Ocassionally I wear wrist braces because when sleeping my hands get bent and cramped.
Yet when diagnosed as experiencing ADD, the doctor said the tests also show that I have an area of exceptional talent, and present as 10 to 15 years younger than most people my age.  In appearance, demeanor, thinking and other abilities.  So I can either suffer or enjoy the ADD.

Why is it ok to be eccentric and silly, if young but not ok, if old? 
So again as you notice, a little dottiness belies appearances.  Or is it the other way around? 
My kids especially forget that 45 years old was 27 years ago.   Some do not take disappointment very well.

Thanks for sharing.  Our lists of complaints match in variety and length. 
All through life, I've been blessed with a wonderful sense of humor.

Another blessing is the absence of worry about the future.  Ours is getting shorter everyday. 
Carolyn Myss offers this in her book, Invisible Acts of Power:  Even those who are a source of pain, suffering and anger are blessings in life.  For through the experience they generate with us, we receive information about where we need to bring light.   
  
Blessings and thanks,
Joyous M.  

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Thank you for you response.
Yes, as a sub teacher i am aware of the dissapointment of the young. Dissapointments are what make us strong. “It” WILL work next time-or a new way.

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

I grin again.

Amen, sister, amen:  (“It” WILL work next time - or a new way.)

I feel like I'm trying to work my way out of a maze.  “Tis a puzzlement …” said the King of Siam to Anna. 

Frequently I am blessed with whimsy.  Like now. 
So I got out the book:  I Heard God Laughing (Renderings of Hafiz, (c. 1320-1389), by Daniel Ladinsky.  This is what I find:  quote …

ZERO

Zero

Is where the Real Fun starts.

There is too much counting

   Everywhere else!  

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Joyous M, I love the way you describe the waves of feeling as they pass through your awareness!

and that is a wonderful one from Hafiz.I”m laughing too.

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…it may sound  crude on my part if i put few questions:
-one , ' well , why do we crave for respect from our youngsters EVEN AT THIS ADVANCED AGE ?.”
-two,…. ” WHAT DIFFERENCE IT MAKES IF YOU DON'T GET RESPECT-at least at this age ? ”
-three,” ok , they don't respect us , why worry ? since we will not be around for too long..why should we make it out as a world shaking issue ?…atleast at this age ?
-four , ” atleast at this age should we not take things easy , cool , & light ? ..at least for our own good …?

…sorry !, i might be hurting each one of you by writing like this …what i was actually trying to stress was that there is a need to change our mindset..faaaast !..for our own good !!!…

btw i am turning 61 on 16th of this month and i have long back adopted such stoic attitude towards  life & people around in general and it  has ensured for me a peaceful co-existence with  fellow beings in the diverse world ..

love, kisses & hugs to- Joyous Mary , Meenakshi , Bantibus , Flax ,  Cindy and all other Glowing Stars of the Group !!…

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Hello jagadish: 

You present a challenge.  I can pass it by or consider how I may benefit from your contribution.  I chose to consider and allow for a change of mind.  

I agree, “What difference does it make?”  Is a question to ask often as we journey through this limited time-in-body. 

But to expect respect, especially from those whom we have loved and nurished into adulthood, is like expecting a return on our investment.  I think that is normal and healthy.  

In a broader perspective, perhaps all the grief, pain, crime and wars are the results of the failure to have respect.    It starts with each individual. 

Somewhere in time self-respect begins to weaken and fade in individuals and spreads.   In the same way respect for self and others can begin and flourish.

I try to live respectfully and thus expect respect. - -   That return on investment concept. 

If the popular psych axiom is true:  “We/you/I get what is expected”, it then becomes my responsibility to expect respect. 

My hope and intent is: That as I live with respect for all, so do I scatter seeds of Love and Peace.    

Joyous Mary
1937
  

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

I'm in two minds about this- on one hand, as you say - what difference does it make? If I take this question as it is, and not rhetorically, these thoughts come to mind:

Whether we accept it or not, when we are not respected, we begin to wonder if we have done something wrong in raising them; if we could have done more; if we ourselves made mistakes; or if we were mistaken in seeing them as loving.

Older people have often invested a lot of time and effort in parenting, and /or perhaps teaching or mentoring their own or others' children. It is not easy to detach from that; but I agree, it is important to do so. To change the mindset, as you say, jagadish. I always remember the words of the Geeta, that are often translated as “to action alone you have the right; not to the fruit thereof.” If we can think in this way while being actively involved with youngsters, it can help when we're older.
But what if we feel powerless? We can mentally and to a large [but not full] extent, physically also, stay strong and feeling powerful.

When you say “I'm in two minds about this- on one hand, as you say - what difference does it make? If I take this question as it is, and not rhetorically, these thoughts come to mind:

Whether we accept it or not, when we are not respected, we begin to wonder if we have done something wrong in raising them; if we could have done more; if we ourselves made mistakes; or if we were mistaken in seeing them as loving.

Older people have often invested a lot of time and effort in parenting, and /or perhaps teaching or mentoring their own or others' children. It is not easy to detach from that; but I agree, it is important to do so. To change the mindset, as you say, jagadish. I always remember the words of the Geeta, that are often translated as “to action alone you have the right; not to the fruit thereof.” If we can think in this way while being actively involved with youngsters, it can help when we're older.
But what if we feel powerless? We can mentally and to a large [but not full] extent, physically also, stay strong and feeling powerful.
when you say “I'm in two minds about this- on one hand, as you say - what difference does it make? If I take this question as it is, and not rhetorically, these thoughts come to mind:

Whether we accept it or not, when we are not respected, we begin to wonder if we have done something wrong in raising them; if we could have done more; if we ourselves made mistakes; or if we were mistaken in seeing them as loving.

Older people have often invested a lot of time and effort in parenting, and /or perhaps teaching or mentoring their own or others' children. It is not easy to detach from that; but I agree, it is important to do so. To change the mindset, as you say, jagadish. I always remember the words of the Geeta, that are often translated as “to action alone you have the right; not to the fruit thereof.” If we can think in this way while being actively involved with youngsters, it can help when we're older.
But what if we feel powerless? We can mentally and to a large [but not full] extent, physically also, stay strong and feeling powerful. When you say
“ok , they don't respect us , why worry ? since we will not be around for too long..why should we make it out as a world shaking issue ?…atleast at this age ?”

This does feel resigned, and slightly defeated. Or, as you say, stoic. Is there a more powerful way? Perhaps you mean, don't focus on it?

 


 

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Thanks Meenakshi, for the words of the Geeta as translated:  “to action alone you (I)have the right; not to the fruit thereof.”

Yours and Judi's comments on the invisibility of the little children inspire and bring to mind all kinds of stories of my time with the little wise ones. 

Joyous Mary
1937  

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Thought I'd just jump in and join this wonderful conversation … seein' as how I've been facing some feelings of “getting too old” :)
My daughter, Amber, and I just bought a house together knowing this would be quite an adventure.  Just moving my 10 year accumulation of STUFF from my apartment to this house was challenge number one!  Then, I thought I'd have all those boxes of things sorted, put away, and the garage sale done in just a few weeks!  HA!  LOL. That is challenge number two that still looks like Mt. Everest.
Then, of course, there's the yard and the garden that I want – now – so I can eat fresh foods for a healthy, aging body.  Well, it's been quite a little challenge digging cement hard dirt for my tomatoes, hauling a pickup load of loam for the poor little darlin's, and wrestling with pallets for the compost pile … well, it just never ends and I know that, but I want results NOW  :)
I know I should be grateful that my 64 year old body does as well as it does.  It allows me to do these things (if ever so slowly to preserve fragile knees, hips, and ankles).
I've allowed myself to get super out of shape over the last 10 years, and I have a lazy streak a mile wide that perpetuates that problem – with the new house I read a little, then do a little chore, read a little, do another little chore, take a nap, do another little chore … I keep hoping this will lead to longer times with the chores and fewer reading spells and naps between, but …
That's where this conversation intrigues me.  At what point, if ever, will I be accepting of this (I'm not sure that it's natural) process of becoming less able to do things.  AND will there come a time when others will see me as powerless because of my aging? 
I feel that my daughters will continue to be respectful; especially if I've done what I can to maintain my health, but that doesn't mean the world out there won't dismiss me. 
I've occasionally had the experience of young people practically walking over me as if I didn't exist while out on a walk.  I smile and hold to my course on my side of the sidewalk and watch to see if they expect me to step aside (it's quite comical to see their shocked looks when I don't) 
I keep wondering too … is it my frame of mind that makes the difference whether others see me as deserving of respect?  I certainly feel that I get incredible respect from my co-workers, for example.  What will happen when I retire, and I'm active in my community but not connected to that “family”? 
Well, this thread and the many conversations above certainly triggered all sorts of thoughts for me. 
I look forward to seeing what others have to say.  I especially appreciate the offerings of those who are older.  Your wisdom as you go before me is invaluable.

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Judi, you present me with a mirror in your response about respect for the aged.   Too often I think I am the only one with such weird awarenesses.  It is good to find that one is not alone. 
Last year October, my son and I rented a house.  Believing that shared rent would be even less than the apartment that I was renting. 

This year October, we are moving again.  I am moving into a one-bedroom senior apartment.  
I have 50 years accumulation of stuff that I hope to sell.  I have a lot of interests.  Fabric arts, sewing, crocheting, stitching, and other needlecrafts, reading, writing, jigsaw puzzles.  And the list goes on-and-on.  I shop garage sales and resale/secondhand stores and keep bringing home more stuff. 
I am participating in a community garden this year and growing a small one in the yard here.  I love the outdoors and so indoor chores pile up and stand waiting. 

This weekend I put a few furniture items at the end of the driveway for sale.  I will be doing this off-and-on until everythings is all gone.  I will keep only a bed, a couple of chairs, chests of drawers, and two lamps and a table.  This will save on stress and cost of moving.  Perhaps generate a little extra funding.  Yes, three of the six items at the end of the driveway were sold.  An antique wooden ironing board, a glider and a tall clock with shelving. 
I am in for a lot of sorting and pricing.  I am more comfortable stretching it out over three months.
I am in a small town with no taxi service or public transportation and my car is in a garage on a rack for service.  I am moving into a much larger city close to the center.  I am originally from Chicago.  I figure as I age and am alone, living will be better for me where there is more social life, mobility, medical care and people aware of one another and community involvements.
I feel isolated here.  These are very stressful days. 
Your routine sounds like mine.   I too, have a lazy streak.  I too, read a little, do a little, read a little, sit and daydream, do a little, nap some, daydream some more, watch the birds.  I call it taking care of myself.  It's a very taxing period in my life and I need to do or not do, only one day at a time or one-half day at a time.           
And so my Journey continues, full of discovery, growth and peace.

Joyous Mary
1937  

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Jodi, this has got me thinking about this issue again. One thing that both you and Amber share, is the ability to share an experience with authenticity and humility and yet show your wisdom and optimism while doing so! It's a real gift.

When you talked of being invisible - as I think Joyous had said once, too - I thought of children who, in some places, also seem invisible to elders; even of those times when I may have spoken 'over their heads' and if this is an aspect of second childhood, it's truly sad. Would it help, when you are faced with those who can't see you, that you bring your attention to the great gift of you that they are unable to see - your wisdom, experience, vision, perspective, memories, knowledge, adaptability, growth….

…and then see that it is not you who is powerless, but they? In their ignorance, youthful blindness, and even thoughtlessness?

and then walk on with a secret smile? Perhaps even compassion for ones so young? Would that help?

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Meenakshi, I just love the way you go beyond the obvious so many times … to realize that children can be “invisible” to their elders.  I know for sure I have “spoken 'over their heads” especially at work where it's easy to view 3,4, and 5-year-olds as adorable, but somehow “not quite human yet”! Oh my.
And yes, to see someone as having “youthful blindness” in those moments when they don't see me is wise. 
I went back to your response to Joyous Mary's post and your thoughts about your parents.  It reminded me of my mom and dad at the same ages - 84 - and how they had become even more gentle than ever, deferring gracefully the future to their children as if they no longer needed to be defined by this world in any way; yet so loving and accepting.  My goodness, those fond memories have triggered a pool of tears and I can't see to type!!! LOL  daub, daub away the tears … with that wonderful memory tucked into the back of my mind, I'll be on my way.

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Hello everyone,

I've not been here for awhile.  My how this seed has grown.  Much like the Sunflowers, Tomatoes and Bell Peppers that I planted this season. 

This little bit is my appreciation for all that I am gleaning here and encouragement and invitation for more.

Joyous Mary
1973

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

OMG!  Did anyone notice how young I am?

In my posting of 6/21  Under my signout I typed:  1973 as my birth year instead of 1937.

No thanks, I don't want to go back to all that Power. 

Joyous Mary
1937

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

lol!
See what I found

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Joyous, I met my 55 year old friend and her almost 80 yr old mom the other day. While we worked out in the park, the mom took a walk. I was a little under the weather so I sat one session out, and was speaking to the mom.

Later, my friend complained that her mom often decides against wearing a hearing aid and they 've to keep repeating themselves. So this is very much like the situation you've described, but from the “youngsters' ” POV.

Joyous, you said above: ”I imagine they are angry because they expect their mother with 72-year old ears to hear like 45.” It seems to me they're impatient because you seem to be embracing your powerlessness more than the devices available to you to overcome that. Is it much different than wearing glasses for weak eyesight whatever the age? Perhaps they're uncomfortable to wear?

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I see so many posts on this thread that I'd missed in the past few days. It is so inspiring to read the ways in which you are continuing to learn and adapt and also to show others how to do so, Betty,Arthur, Flax.
I guess that's what life's about! New learning at every age.

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

I do not understand what the problem is!!! Why do you care what your children or anyone else thinks about this. If you do not want to wear a hearing aide is it anyone elses problem or concern? What do you care what others think at this age just enjoy, you have earned it. Thank God for what you do have and what you do not have as well.
I am hard of hearing and do not wear a hearing aide. I do not hear 75% of what people say but what most people say is not worth hearing anyway. I am enjoying this time of my life, it is fun to be by myself and eat when I want, sleep when I want, go out when I want and pray when I want. I can be around people when I want and when I have had enough I can go home and be still.
I have raised 5 children and have 13 grandchildren, if I see them it is wonderful, if they are too bust to see me a lot of the time it is also wonderful. I am at peace with myself and do not need anyone elses approval. If I get it great, If I don't get it also great.

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…Hi Gloria , i read your post several times for the sheer beauty & down-to-earth practical views expressed therein …in the end i could not resist standing up and saluting you in awe & respect for your wise counsel  besides your broad minded approach to the whole issue ( or is it a non-issue ? !)…i am hearing-aid dependant myself since childhood and most of the time i deliberately switch it off  to check those unwanted shallow/hollow talks from others ..BTW don't you think that we are fortunate in that respect ?… which benefit , incidentally, Meenakshi does not have ! …hahaha… she should thank her stars that i am not only located faraway but also cannot speak to her over the 'phone !!…hahaha…!!

lots of love & hugs

-jagadish

Re: Respect for Powerlessness in the Ageing Process

Gloria, I'm laughing delightedly at what you've written here: I do not hear 75% of what people say but what most people say is not worth hearing anyway.

I'm inspired by the way you've found happiness and contentment in your life. Do you have any tips on how someone who doesn't feel that way can begin to?  Or someone who is sometimes content and at other times, not?

For instance, does it help to have friends of your own age?

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Hi Meenakshi:
First of all you must have a beautiful Guru to inspire you, second of all you must have a beautiful Guru to love you.
Most of the people that I associate with now are very young, they are part of a spiritual group we all belong to. The young people are delightful and when they aren't your family they honor you.
I have a few dear friends my own age that I see from time to time. My husband passed away almost 2 years ago and since then I have had to learn to be alone most of the time and I have found that I enjoy being with myself.

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It inspires me to see that at every age, we are growing, if we choose to; and that we can find new and different and wonderful experiences regardless of what we lose.

I wonder if you'd care to share some thoughts on how Relationships become re-defined as we grow older.

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lol! I really am enjoying your humor, Jagadish and can only imagine laughing uproariously if I could hear you! Maybe one day I passed you by when I was in Bangalore!

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…that means , Meenakshi , in order  not to miss the pleasure of meeting you i should hereonwards spend more time on roads than in the 'pool !!! ...:-))