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Archetypes and Spiritual Development
One goal of this Pod is to ask yourself this: What is the role of the archetypes and archetype like symbols and their integration into the Self in spiritual development?  Then, you or someone can provide the answer on this Pod. 

I’ve had some education in, and used Jungian theory in my therapy practice.  Zaadz seems like
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  Awakened : Lover of AllOne

The role of the Shadow in Spiritual Development

Awakened said Oct 30, 2007, 4:57 PM:

 

While individuation, i.e., integration of various aspects of ourselves, including and perhaps perticularly archetypes, into the Self, is the process of spiritual development for Jung, the Shadow is particularly instructive in understanding this.  Two of the hallmarks of the spiritually advanced are 1) integrity of the Self, and, 2) a great capacity to love all others.  There is great acceptance of various aspects of the self.  Therefore, integration of the previously despised parts of the self, i.e., the Shadow, is very important. 

What are we talking about here?  self-love and Self-Love.  What does self-love and Self-Love give you?  The capacity to love all others, particularly from a Jungian perspective.  When our shadows are not integrated, we are prone to project these parts of ourselves outward, onto others, a phenomena called Shadow Projection.  This means that we then hate, are disgusted by, or otherwise dislike, the person or people we have projectied our shadow on.  Pretty difficult to love someone you hate.  Hence, from a spiritual perspective, the role of Shadow integration is to love thy self, so that, we can love all others. 

Love all ya'll,

twice awakened Doug

  Traveling Alchemist : Meanderer

Re: The role of the Shadow in Spiritual Development

Traveling Alchemist said Oct 31, 2007, 8:37 AM:

 

Doug, would you kindly clarify your distinction between self-love and Self-Love?  I just want to make sure I understand your terminology.

As I have grown spiritually, I have discovered the ability to accept more diversity in my life on many levels.  I still struggle with biases and other shadow aspects that are more problematical.  Probably in a 'refining' process.  I'm not sure how I 'project' my shadow material, although I'm sure I am a 'mirror'.  I can readily see where I've received projections from others…I've read that we necessarily do project onto others so that we can see ourselves better, at least if we are looking.

“The capacity to love all others”…what would this look like?  How is love defined in this context? Is it possible to love all aspects of yourself, including the Shadow aspects, and still not like them?  Not act them out? If we accept our shadow aspects do we need to express them?

In my training in hypnotherapy, there is the “divine adult” who listens to all the 'voices' of the self, and who has the final authority over the outcome of any 'discussion.' 

In Richard Sennett's book The Uses of Disorder: Personal Identity & City Life he describes the 'me' and the 'not me' as he looks at how society projects itself - gangs, gated communities, greed, etc. are the collective shadow aspects.  I need to go back and reread this book.  Although published in 1970, it has a lot to offer about how we as American society gather into our communities, as monocultures, not diverse gatherings. 

  Awakened : Lover of AllOne

Re: The role of the Shadow in Spiritual Development

Awakened said Oct 31, 2007, 5:52 PM:

 

I saw your post earlier today and have been excited to respond to it since.  Well, here we go, you ask some great qestions:

The distinction between self-love and Self-Love, for me is:  First off, all love is Great.  In the post below I meant self-love to be a “normal” healthy love of self, with the small “s” meaning more an ego bound love, again great.  As one integrates more aspects of one's personality and the collective unconscious, the self develops into a wider “Self,” with the capital “S” meaning a more spiritually evolved Self.  It is all process and it is all relatively relative, with the Self being more inclusive of aspects of the onesself, that the self did not include.  Your comment that your spiritual growth has included an acceptance of more diversity on many levels reflects this expansiveness and is the source of the greater “capacity to love all others,” as detailed in the original post on this board.  Additionally, I plan on reading more of Jung's work so I can respond in a meaningful manner to Dave's post on the Self board.   My definition of Self-Love is only loosely related to Jung's ideas of The Self, but does include his idea of individuation.  When speaking of the “integration” of the archetypes into the Self, we are speaking of making conscious that which is unconscious, and more coud be said about this. 

I am very interested in your description of “mirroring” and perhaps you can say more about this too.  What exactly happens?  I hope I am not crossing a boundary, but I suspect that you may be an introvert, as you remain somewhat ambiguous to others, leaving them room to project upon you, which from one perspective, is a gift to the projector.  (by the way, tid bit: Jung did the personality type work behind the Myers Briggs Type Indicator MBTI)  Of course, you may not be an introvert at all.  I wonder what you learn about others as they project on you and if you've noticed archetypal content?  You may want to ask yourself, is there a pattern or patterns in terms of what people project on you, which could reveal as much about you, as about them.  Again, hope this was not intrusive to you. 

Next, you ask about “the capacity to love all others.”  From a Jungian developmental perspective, as discussed below in the original post on this board, this would have to involve a great bit of shadow integration, and I describe the relationship of shadow integration to loving a wider range of others.  It is also known as “Agapic Love,” which is universal, and implicitly or explicitly spiritual, love for all.  What does it look like, it looks like all other love, look at the Dali Lamas eyes, look at mine when I'm in a great place in my heart and walking down the street.  It shines on everyone.  Just for contrast, if I am constricted and wound up in something in my life, I don't express my “capacity to love all others.”  I may have it inside, but it is not being expressed. 

Your next question, is it possible to love all aspects of yourself, including the Shadow aspects, and still not like them.  I do thnk it is possible to love all aspects of yourself.  There are many specific flavors of love, e.g., love for the strong, love for the weak, love for the lover, love for the angry even, which may dissolve the anger.  Just as you feel different loves for different people in your life, you can love various aspects of yourself.  For example, many of those who have done inner child work know what it is like to have a maternal and paternal love for a child, and to have love as a child for these parts of ourselves - Note, each of this stances is from an Archetype, Mother Father Child.  However, by definition, one cannot love the Shadow, at least not in any pure sense, because, by definition, the Shadow is the unknown in consciousness parts of ourselves, and again, disliked, and even despised (ouch! nasty word, and intended to be).  This is why self/Self-Love is part of shadow integration.  Again if you can love THOSE aspects of yourself, you can love others who may be “undesirable” from a more narrow state of consciousness that disowns parts of itself. 

The theory is, if you own the “negative” parts of yourself in consciousness, then you won't act them out in a negative way.  We may not and probably, from a moral perspective, should not, express many parts of our shadow.  But to individuate and grow spiritually from a Jungian point of view, we must realize them in consciousness, and even embrace them.  I do think from a meditative standpoint, it is valuableto watch them go by, like thoughts during many forms of meditation.  You introduced the idea of the Divine Adult, and if this includes unconditional love for the other sides of the self, then this could be a way to integrate the shadow.  Eventually, if you think this through far enough, you must ask the question, is human nature basically good or evil?   I Know This: Spiritual nature is beyond Great!!!  Hence, through integration of the self, evil is transmuted to love.  From a Jungian perspective, hate emerges from shadow projection.  Conversely, and I'm not sure this is pure Carl Jung, but, Love emerges from Shadow Integration. 

Your mention of Sennett's book is interesting too.  Because archetypes are part of the collective unconscious, they are manifested on a cultural level.  Throughout this pod, you will hear discussion of the inner and outer manifestations of the archetypes. 

As it is in, so it will be out.


All in One,

twice awakened Doug 

  Traveling Alchemist : Meanderer

Re: The role of the Shadow in Spiritual Development

Traveling Alchemist said Nov 2, 2007, 9:58 AM:

 

Doug,
Thank you for your comments and clarifications.

While at 'first blush' of reading your response, especially regarding more personal information, I was concerned about crossing boundaries; upon further consideration and with the idea that no harmful intent is meant, I'm interested in more information about your perceptions…

Not to be 'analyzed', but to bring some understanding to myself, which is the goal of shadow work, I'd be interested in tools for doing the work. 

In recent months I've been in grieving mode for the loss of my partner, and of course, all the loss of our future together.  At the same time I've struggled off and on with aspects of our relationship that I found very troubling.  So I am in a vulnerable position here…

Yes, I would classify myself as an introvert - I like my solitude, study, etc.  I try to balance that with outside activities.  I find that in most social situations I am more of a listener than a talker; however, I do more often than in the past speak when moved to speak.  I'm not at all interested in superficial conversations and gossip, which I find most folks, especially women, enjoy so very much.  My question would be - from your comment  ”I suspect that you may be an introvert, as you remain somewhat ambiguous to others, leaving them room to project upon you, which from one perspective, is a gift to the projector. ” - does being an introvert necessarily indicate ambiguity?  What do you mean?

Another question would be from this  - “I wonder what you learn about others as they project on you and if you've noticed archetypal content?” - do you mean have I noticed archetypal content from the 'projector' or from the 'screen'?  (myself)





  Awakened : Lover of AllOne

Re: The role of the Shadow in Spiritual Development

Awakened said Nov 2, 2007, 11:18 AM:

 

Dearest Traveler,

I feel very fortunate and blessed that you saw my intent.  First off, I see that you have had a deep loss recenlty and I would like to offer you to leave a message for me so that anything more private might be dealt with more privately.  Do not feel obliged, this is an offer from the heart, not ego or personal gain. 

Second, thank you for your sharing of yourself here.
While extraversion seems to be vaIued more in American culture, introverts are the deep thinkers, dreamers, and often mystics, just not the “lifes of the party.”  [[Once again, I want to point out that while the idea of introversion-extraversion has been around at least since the Greeks, and I would wager in Asia long before this, Jung really elaborated on the idea.  And, the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) is based in Jung's theory.  Finally, Introversion-Extraversion is the most salient personality variable known, and there is new evidence that it is genetic]]

Regarding your first question: The ways we perceive, in the traditional and nonmystical sense, always involve some projection, we can only see and understand through the ways that we have for seeing and understanding.  All of us here have grown, and all of us have come to perceive a thing differently from the way we had previously.  This is not to say there are not truths and Ultimate Truths.  What has this got to do with introverts being perceived more ambiguously?  Introverts provide less content in their expression of themselves.  Myself, a fairly perceptive individual, often have difficulty knowing what introverts are thinking, feeling, sensing, etc…, becuase particularly at times, introverts express so little.  This may be particularly so for the introverted-thinking type.  Hence, they are more ambiguous.  Once an introvert speaks or otherwise communicates their thoughts, feelings, etc…, they become less ambiguous.  A perfect metaphor is the role of the traditional psychoanalyst, who in an effort to remain a “blank screen,” actually sits behind and/or to the extreme side of the analysand.  Additionally, one pervasive technique is not to answer any questions that the analysand has about the analyst, nor to reveal any personal inforamtion.  In this way the analysand projects their inner content onto the analyst in a process known as transference.  The content of the transference is then used for insight into the analysand. 
With this, you can see two things, an example of projection, and how the shadow, and much else, can be projected onto a person who is not providing much content of their own, which is common and nearly defining for introverts.  I hope this answers your question. 

Regarding your second question, I believe I asked both.  No doubt, based on what I just said, much of what you are “receiving” is the other person's projection, all kinds of content!  I also mentioned if there was a pattern, and then asked what this might mean about you.  This was purely speculation and I was just curious how deep a soul like yourself, and all of us, might experience this. 

Respectfully and with Love,

twice awakened Doug

 

Re: The role of the Shadow in Spiritual Development

X [no longer around] said Nov 2, 2007, 5:06 PM:

 

Dear readers and fellow travellers - a poem -

There is nothing I can give oyu
Which you do not have;
But there is much, very that,
While I cannot give it, you can take

No heaven can come to us
Unless our hearts find rest in today
Take heaven!
No peace lies in the future
Which is not hidden in this present instant.
Take peace!

The gloom of the world is but a shadow.
Behind it, yet within reach, is joy.
There is a radiaince and glory in the darkness
Could we but see,
And to see we have only to look.
I beseech you to look.

Fr Giovanni AD 1513

With loving kindness

Xrisham (Graeme)

  Traveling Alchemist : Meanderer

Re: The role of the Shadow in Spiritual Development

Traveling Alchemist said Nov 5, 2007, 3:34 PM:

 

Yes, dear friend, the introverted thinking type - exactly…you got me pegged!!!  I totally understand the idea now of being ambiguous.  Over time I guess it becomes part of our growth to address extroversion and become a little more balanced, or integrated, so that while we may tend more strongly to one way, we can move into the other aspect…I'm learning to speak up more, to allow my personality show, and I'm looking for the folks who are learning to stop talking so much, balancing it with more listening!!!

You asked if I'd seen the archetypes/shadow in projections, and yes, I have.  One particular experience with a house mate when I was in grad school was very interesting.  All the things she didn't like about how I behaved just showed me that she couldn't accept the 'difference' in herself…Example:  she said she noticed that I didn't take food to a potluck we were invited to, and she thought that was just plain bad manners.  I hadn't had the time to prepare anything, and as I was riding with her, it was obvious I was going empty-handed (note that she was my chldren's age, so I think she looked to me as a better example of what should be done!)  For my part, I gave myself permission to go empty-handed, as I have always been the “responsible” one.  It isn't what I do regularly, but I allowed for it.  She also hit me verbally for everything she thought I had been doing wrong for the previous six months…so very interesting.  I was hurt, and told her so - asked her to give me a break, which she refused.  The rest of summer was very cool in the house, but I was grateful that I had been able to recognize that ithese were her issues, not mine…

  Awakened : Lover of AllOne

Re: The role of the Shadow in Spiritual Development

Awakened said Nov 6, 2007, 4:17 PM:

 

While I am and ENFP, I have become more introverted then I used to be.  A Jungian professor of mine said that there are “Jungsters,” people over 35 who develop their minor aspect, e.g., your extraversion, my introversion.  Absolutely, as you said, flexibility in type may be a healthier way of being, as it allows for more adaptation to various situations, and for the development of the Self in more ways.  But even this, having to do with “situations” is sort of extraverted biased.  Many extraverts have difficulty adapting to their inner situation with the sophistication, adeptness, and comfort of an introvert.

That is fascinating about your roomate, also sounds pretty difficult at times.  I would think that if someone is catching crap out of the blue from someone else, this is a pretty clear sign of shadow projection. 

All in one,

twice awakened Doug