Gaia: Archetypes and Spiritual Development

Re: Introductions

http://benjamindavidsteele.gaia.com — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 05:30:43 GMT

Hi Moonlit,

It doesn't seem to be active at all. You could start a thread here and see who responds, or you could join some more active pods. I'm a member of the God Pod which is fairly active and it has many interesting discussions. You could start a thread there about symbolism, archetypes and Jung.

Blessings,
Marmalade

Re: Introductions

http://personal-metamorphosis.gaia.com — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 04:37:25 GMT

I'm just starting my conscious spiritual journey and I love symbolism archetypes and Jung. So I'm glad to be here. I hope this group is still active, sounds l ike a great place.

Re: What a nice lounge!

http://twiceawakened.gaia.com — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 03:29:01 GMT

I thought a Jungian slip was nice piece of spiritual undergarment?

With Love,

Doug

Comparative Mythology and Social Development

http://benjamindavidsteele.gaia.com — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 10:45:20 GMT

I've already started threads about this in two other pods. The subject fits here perfectly well, but I was reluctant to post it here because this pod doesn't seem very active. But I'll post the links to the other threads for anyone who happens upon this pod. I love archetypes and I'm kinda sad that nobody posts around here anymore.

http://pods.gaia.com/is_there_a_god/discussions/view/269786

http://pods.gaia.com/ips/discussions/view/270408

Re: Introductions

http://benjamindavidsteele.gaia.com — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:14:45 GMT

Hello!

Looks like a pod with a topic I'm interested in, but it doesn't seem to be too active at the moment. I like mythology in general and I really like archetypes. Recently, I've been more focused on astrotheological interpretations of Christianity.

Re: Introductions

http://coffeelover.gaia.com — Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:01:15 GMT

Hi all! I'm a teacher and during graduate school did a lot of study of Jung. We did quite a bit of mythical criticism and I studied Jungian androgyny in Shakespeare.

Loads of fun!

Looking forward to reading the posts here...

Re: Introductions

http://spiralingpastyellow.gaia.com — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:21:20 GMT

Hi everyone, I'm in Higher Education by profession (organisation and management) my work and research is taking me increasingly towards the notion of apriori archetypes in direct contrast to the dominant empricist teaching of typical 'business schools' looking to learn and develop my understanding - just picked Routledge - Jung Archetypes - fascinating!

Re: Alchemy, transformation, and the archetype of the four elemen

http://axiom.gaia.com — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 04:47:42 GMT

Howdy Seth!

Nice ta see ya here. I read a wee bit into your ideas- and after i finish this brief message ill check em out a bit more. with that in mind, here are some of my notes:

earth seems to correspond to the realm of axioms within logical statements (which is part of mind). as such, it is unconcerned really with either duality or non-duality, just the statements. water, on the other hand, relates those axioms amongst themselves. Still, this is the realm of mind. Water actually implies differentiation, as the movement of fact to fact implies that fact transforms.

air and fire are abstractions, almost platonisms, if not such. they are cyclic. air is the dualistic relations level. fire is basically the transcendant function of air- the seeing of the air cycle from without and thus its resolution.

in upanishads thinking, i would say that earth is three, air is two and fire is one.

that said, ive just talked of the whole from the earth level, so to speak. reading further i see that each element is actually process-oriented. (which i like.)

from the physical qualities list, i can see how you came to this method of division. how would you say that this alchemical way of thinking relates to other alchemical methods? more specifically, what does this system offer that the other methods do not?

one thing that jumps out at me is this: my perspective is rooted in the mythological and in the poetical. speaking from both backgrounds it seems very much to me that one of the main problems that humans face is that they have created a mental division between themselves and nature as well as between themselves and themselves. for instance, the serpent represented the worldly or material (earth) in many ancient mythologies. some of these mythologies had a symbol of some flying creature carrying a serpent - or a combination of the two in the form of a dragon. this symbol represented the connection of heaven and earth- or the connection between the worldy and the heavenly (fire). also, these symbols acted as transcendant functions leading to a perspective of understanding that embraced not only the worldly and unworldy, but the dual and universal at the same time. this is a very important concept that generally is missing from the modern conception of islam, christianity and judaism.

in the modern systems of thinking, (even in the dualist gnostic systems such as the cathars) there is such a thing as sin, good and evil. the modern religions teaches that the worldly is evil and must be destroyed, leaving only the good. this is the antithesis of alchemy, really. the idea behind alchemy is tantric- the idea is that evil cannot be destroyed by attempting to head it off or reduce it- but that by connecting to it (embracing the worldy) we transcend the paradox that exists between duality sets and become something greater than either half. this is really the same process that you elaborate on in your thesis- only under slightly different headings and titles. really- the process is the same. look within, identify, ask, connect, resolve, repeat. which is not a critisism at all.

what im aiming at here- is the use of earth (as is quite common) as symbol for the beginning stuffs while at the same time using language that suggests that the movement from earth towards fire is the "desired" achievement. if any such desired movement "upwards" exists, then it acts as a represive and dualistic force that maintains one, oddly enough, in the same but more subtle state. which does not mean that the system outlined is bad, poor or needs correction, even. it's merely the matter of a subtle and delicate wording that may lead to a subtle mind-set.

perhaps (and this is merely suggestion) one could leave the elements entirely as they are labeled (because that does make sense and whats more corresponds to other systems of thought.) one might be able to convey the peculiar "holiness requiring no absolution" of earth by simply explaining that the whole process is explained through necessity in terms of duality (as all communication is), and that really and truly, the outline presented seeks to convey the process by which earth, water, air and fire are all mutually united to create a perspective that while composed of all four, transcends all four in being of them all.

just some thoughts, though.

i really enjoy seeing another mind at work in this arena.

have you ever looked into the idea of using story-telling or mythologies to open up psychological processes? my favourite method of opening my own internal processes is to write poetry (which sure as heck aint always all that literary!) poetry allows me to convey to myself all four processes you describe simultaneously. take for instance, i utilize the worldy and factual to create relationships between symbols standing for perhaps themselves. then a story ensues in which the platonic ideals behind them are charged and then united. this surely aint the only way of getting at truths- but its one way of eating an apple, fer sure!

for the smaller stuff, i think much in the same lines as the process you outlined. mostly- i try to see whats going outside of me and inside of me both. if i see something out that ive never seen before in- then i go searching inside of me for it. and if i see a relation between stuffs on the inside- i go looking for it on the out. also, i watch for my own blame (or others, really) to tell me when ive hit a charged duality.

i wonder how i could integrate your way of processesing information as you outline here and my way of associating the inner patterns and outer patterns that i perceive are so correlated. maybe you have some ideas.

anywho, very nice reading and i send you the best thoughts, warmest thanks,
davie williams

Alchemy, transformation, and the archetype of the four elements.

http://spiritualalchemy.gaia.com — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:24:57 GMT

Hello all-

I have been working with the four elements (Earth, Water, Air, and Fire) - in the form of the elemental cycle or mandala - for a number of years now, and feel like the elements are completely archetypal in nature. In particular I have used the elemental mandala as a tool for both self-transformation and as a way of penetrating the mysteries of the objective world - it seems to me that the elements provide a profound tool for the structuring of human consciousness, particularly around situations undergoing change, whether inner or outer.

My personal interest in this topic has led me to try and explore the elements and the potentials of the elemental cycle as the topic of my master's thesis in Consciousness Studies, which is almost completed. As a part of this I have created a primer on the four elements and how they can practically be used as an objective tool for self-transformation and for help in structuring our consciousness around difficult or otherwise mysterious situations. The primer has been placed at: http://www.spiritalchemy.com/ and is completely free.

As a part of my work I am also looking for people who wish to try out the elemental cycle for themselves and who can provide feeback on the process - this will help me understand how other people work with the cycle and what it does (or does not) do for them, all with the aim of refining and evolving how to present the elemental cycle as an effective transformative tool. I see this as a collaborative aspect of the work, and one that is important for well-roundedness.

I'd love to converse about the archetypes of the elements here. My basic feeling is that they are a way to get at the underlying qualities which make transformation occur. I have made a tentative list of these qualities: http://www.spiritalchemy.com/p6-metaphors.html

What do you think?
-Seth Miller

Re: Introductions

http://SolomaJ.gaia.com — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 05:48:46 GMT

Hello, everyone,

I'm so glad to join Gaia, do a search of subjects that interest me, and find this wonderful pod! In high school about 31 years ago, I took an introductory course on psychology. This was my first introduction to Jung, and I was totally hooked. My fascination has never diminished. I suppose because archetypes are so much a part of our identity--it's like being interested in oneself--a subject few of us ever tire of! ; )

I'm very much looking forward to discussions here.

Re: Trickster

http://themagus555.gaia.com — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:43:57 GMT

I found this article to on trickster, shadow and synchronicity to be highly interesting as well.
http://sacredwisdom.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=193

Re: Archetypes are "Psychological DNA"

http://allanhunter.gaia.com — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 22:27:08 GMT

These comments are all in tune with my ideas about archetypes. I too suspect they are in our DNA. I've found that certain specific archetypes occur over and over again, throughout Western literature and myth, for the past 4000 years - always the same, always in the same order. The Western Canon offers us these six archetypes as ways of understanding spiritual growth, and out of which all the other sub-archetypes seem to grow. They are immensely helpful life guidance tools, as a result.

I could add more detail but I'll pause there and see if anyone's going to respond.

Peace,

Allan
www.allanhunter.net
author of Stories We Need to Know, (Findhorn Press, 2008)

Re: A new archetype - the alien and/or UFO?

http://mirit.gaia.com — Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:56:54 GMT

I've just read through the entire discussion so please forgive me if I generalize a bit.

It looks like there are a few questions here.

1. Is there a possibility of new archetypes?
2. Is the alien and/or UFO an archetype?
3. What is the nature of the alien archetype?
4. Are Aliens & UFO's real?

I will address the last question 1st.

I personally believe that we are not alone, however for the sake of this discussion we are looking at archetypes and not reality. It is possible that the some of gods mentioned in greek mythology and other mythologies were based on real people. However when speaking archetypes "reality" is not our concern.

So back to the first question.

1. Is there a possibility of new archetypes?
It is my belief that archetypes evolve, are born and die. Archetypes are born from evolution, advances in our technology and changes in our language which reflet these changes.

Even though Jung spoke of Universal archetypes his language should be changed to greater and lesser archetypes. So The Great Mother is a Greater archetype as we ALL experience this archetype from the moment we are born. However the sage archetype may be a less "universal" archetype as it may not be completely experienced by all people from day 1. There are very young archetypes such as "Geek" which was unknown until computers came around. The Geek has been spreading throughout the world as the internet spreads.

2. Is the alien and/or UFO an archetype?
As far as aliens and UFOs are concerned, they very old archetypes. Many aboriginal legends speak of them and relate to them as such. In the southwest there are renditions of them in petroglyphs. Again, I want to emphasis that this is not a question of aliens visiting native peoples but the relationship humans have with the archetype.

Aliens came to the western consciousness with the movie "The Day the Earth Stood Still" and exploded again in the '70's with "Alien". So for us here in the west with the archetype seems new but it is not.

3. What is the nature of the alien archetype?
This is what is most interesting. From the day we humans could differentiate ourselves from others we had a feeling that we are separate and alone. We looked up at the sky and saw that it was vast. Aliens or beings from another place fit the answer and depending on whether we saw the universe as benevolent or aggressive we placed different faces and roles on the alien. This is a great one for exploration because the alien archetype has so many faces it displays the shadow and the light. So if the alien shows up in our dream what does it symbolize and how do we relate to something that is so foreign to us or maybe its not foreign at all but a different aspect of what we feel is our own alienation.

Peace
mirit

Re: Introductions

http://mirit.gaia.com — Mon, 31 Dec 2007 20:05:15 GMT

Hi there,

I've been working as an archetypal counselor/medical intuitive for a few years now. I come to archetypes through Caroline Myss' work Sacred Contracts. Through study, I came to find out more about Jung and his offspring, as well as a deep involvement with mythology. Looking forward to a great discussion.

Peace
Happy New Year
Mirit

Re: The Apocalypse and Ego Death

http://sunight.gaia.com — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 01:55:31 GMT

I am not well-versed in the Tarot, but whenever The Tower card has appeared in a reading for me, I have viewed it as a time of change - not so much as destruction. It is a time of 'collapse' of old ways in order to reveal the new. Whenever we begin anew we are not beginning from ground zero, but from a new starting place, which is a higher place than we've been before. It is a time of reaching higher still...And in our reaching, or 'processing', we enter the apocalyse - the place where the conflicts within ourselves, and with others, may become more conscious.

Re: The Apocalypse and Ego Death

http://anandaguy.gaia.com — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 16:29:44 GMT

Yes, yes Traveling Alchemist. I know the card. Please keep in mind that the posting quoting Pinchbeck refers to both the "uncovering" and "revealing" aspects, with a reminder of how the masses may traditionally "see" the idea of the Apocalypse.

I'm holding out for and suggesting we see the transformation in other more positive perspectives with alternatives for us (as I'm reading through these books and contemplating) in individual/personal growth, expansion, releases and transcendence in releasing past projections which have been created and stored in our own and the collective conscious (or unconscious) so that we may achieve a more cohesive transition into what hopefully could be considered a "fruitful" new plateau for humanity.

I'm sure you're familiar with the concept of The Tower card in the Tarot being not only a destructive image, but one of transcendence and new growth after having blown away the restrictions of the past.

This is the place where I hold my vision––more for the new awareness than on the "destructive" nature of these experiences.

Re: The Apocalypse and Ego Death

http://sunight.gaia.com — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:11:04 GMT

Tony, your post brings to mind the image of The Tower from the Tarot...

Re: The Apocalypse and Ego Death

http://sunight.gaia.com — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:11:00 GMT

Tony, your post brings to mind the image of The Tower from the Tarot...

And now a word from our Apocalypse

http://anandaguy.gaia.com — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:49:38 GMT

Thought I ought to remind us here, that Apocalypse does not solely mean "The End"––as Daniel Pinchbeck writes in 2012:

For skeptics and agnostics, the persistent belief in an approaching Apocalypse––a word that literally means "uncovering" or "revealing"––has its roots in human psychology. Since we are horrified by the idea of the death of our own individual egos, we prefer to project our end––or our supernatural transfiguration or cybernetic immortality––onto the entire human world. As Eugen Weber writes in Apocalypse: Prophecies, Cults, and Millennial Beliefs through the Ages:

We yearn for some explosive, extraordinary escape from the inescapable and, none forthcoming, we put our faith in an apocalyptic rupture whereby the inevitable is solved by the unbelievable: grasshoppers, plagues, composite monsters, angels, blood in industrial quantities, and, in the end, salvation from sin and evil––meaning anxiety, travail, and pain. By defining human suffering in cosmic terms, as part of a cosmic order that contains an issue, catastrophe is dignified, endowed with meaning, and hence made bearable.

Hence we not only deal with a "death" but an "uncovering" or "revealing" which is exactly where Grof's and Bache's work ensues––the "awakening," rather than the death, of newer deeper more transcendent experiences...and...quite possibly an intent and motivation for change based in Love as our Zaadz friend here, etoile, has suggested. Yet it seems too, that from their investigations, there is still a place in transit in which we must face certain pains and suffering––albeit they are possibly only our response to our seemingly being separated in consciousness from That in Which We Exist, and in coming face-to-face with all of the odd things we've accomplished as human beings to date.

Re: The Apocalypse and Ego Death

http://anandaguy.gaia.com — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:07:46 GMT

I realize that in this pod we're beginning with the concept of "The Apocalypse," and ego death, as being an archetypal form––forms in which we participate, recognize and define our greater reality of the collective through. So just where is it that we draw the line between archetypal form and fully manifest real dimensions of our Existence which extend out and beyond the limitations suggested by an archetype––where archetypal form might even be viewed as an obstruction or restriction to our conscious communion and understanding of The Greater Picture? What one person views as "apocalyptic" may in fact be a completely different scenario with varied implications than another person.

There are in-depth experiences and reports in Christophere Bache's work which deal in overlapping areas with what we're discussing here in "The Apocalypse" as archetype, but which also walk through the doorway via non-ordinary states of consciousness into realms of individual and collective interconnectivity beyond ego death of the individual as well as the collective. Here we're at play in the field of the archetype in a form that is seemingly very real and potentially transformative, not only for the individual, but possibly for the collective.

And so it is that I offer up these pieces in context of the individual's ego death experience in connection with the collective's ego death and our interconnectedness of the archetype's twilight resonance with our experience of reality in its many forms.

There are passages in Bache's book, Dark Night, Early Dawn, which share his and others' experiences in what seems to be their own ego death (in the context of non-ordinary psychedelic consciousness)––very very deep and agonizing pain and suffering, then to surface in one of two places following.

One dealt with the moving on into the greater world of Spirit in which he/they felt they were vitally and integrally a part of as Themselves, connected to all others in the One so to speak––with the Great Being sharing all the depth of Everything in a state of overwhelming love and the feeling that it had been so long since It/(s)he/we have been in contact . . . that all It wanted to do was to share this wondrous unspeakable divine creativity of the Universe with its other part (us) of Our Creation.

The other version took Bache and others through another level, after having experienced ego death and the pain and suffering of their own long term multi-incarnational being, to surface again in a level which they found profoundly even deeper––inclusively deeper––and more agonizing than the previous one––a situation which they felt was just way too much for one individual's ego death and chain of lives. And even then, they seemed to realize that even this was only a fraction of what must exist for all of humanity and All That There Is.

. . . Just as problematic experiences can collect and block the healthy functioning of the individual, similar blockages might also occur at the collective level. This suggests that the unresolved anguish of human history might still be active in the memory of the species-mind, burdening its life just as our individual unresolved anguish burdens ours. Continuing the parallel, if conscious engagement of the previously unresolved pain brings therapeutic release at the personal level, the same might also occur at the species-level. . . .

. . . Modern examples might be the movements to abolish slavery, to enfranchise women, and to end child molestation. . . .

When we follow the roots of our pain in psychedelic states, we discover that our individual suffering is embedded in an historical web of suffering. The life of the individual appears to crystallize patterns that extend beyond the individual, both socially and historically. As your inner life unfolds in this intense arena, we spontaneously find ourselves being opened beyond our individual existence to encompass various aspects of a larger surround, and this surround is, at one important level, the historical experience of our species. Furthermore, the experience is not one of becoming something other than what we are, but rather of reaching into deeper levels of what we already are. We do not take on the species-mind, but rather we open to that part of our being where we already are the species-mind. And as this happens, we suffer, at least initially.

Some suffer more than others, but all suffer. . . . However, the principle of summation by itself is insufficient to explain the full scope of this anguish for two reasons. First, the sheer quantity of pain can exceed anything that could reasonably be explained in terms of even a long succession of incarnations. Even more telling, however, is the peculiar quality of the suffering. This pain is inherently collective. It's organizational patterns are the historical patterns of a species, not an individual. Its sweep is the sweep of whole groups of people arching against the backdrop of millennia. . . . Going beyond Grof, however, we should speculate that there is (at least) a two-tier structure of healing operating––one at the level of the individual and a second at the level of the species.

In relating to an experience of a clergyman's voyage, Bache comments:

This second death [the experiential ego death in the psychedelic session] is markedly different from the first. The confusion and panic have vanished, his experiential field is clear, and the agony has intensified as he moves to a collective level where he becomes the entire human race. Religious imagery consummates this sense of expanded identity as he experiences a death that touches all humanity and seems to involve even God, the field of all fields. . . .

. . . We need to recognize that both the cleansing and the ecstatic vision this m an so eloquently describes were experienced not in a personal state of consciousness but in a transpersonal state that reached deep into the species-mind. What died that day was not just this man's individual ego, but part of humanity's ego. Correspondingly, the transformative vision he describes poured its blessings not simply into his private mind but directly into the depths of the collective unconscious, making it slightly more aware of its true relation to the divine consciousness. . . . I am deeply convinced that this man's death and rebirth carried a little piece of all of us into God-awareness and in so doing drew us all one step closer to awakening.

A little earlier in the book Bache describes one of his own sessions––where we're picking up here quite a way through it after his having passed through an anguishing cleansing experience of pain––he now is in touch with The Greater Field of Conscious (for lack of better words):

. . . This exploration seemed to answer a cosmic need not only to know but to be known.

Initially I was on a cosmic tour not unlike session 19 when I realized again that this larger field of consciousness that I was with (or in) had been waiting a long time to be seen and known. Then I asked something I had not asked before. I asked, "Who am I talking to?" With that question my experiential field began to change, and I shifted to a new level. It was as though I made a quantum jump to a deeper operational level where I discovered that I was, in fact, with MYSELF. The creative impulse that had at the previous level been other than me was at this level Myself.

These are examples of the individual experiencing ego death, merging with the collective and encountering through transcendence a direct union with Spirit.

Just food for thought.