Power v. Enslavement

In The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle, I find, is an illustration of the ignorance that afflicts a “loathsome” number of Europeans and Americans today. The book, a #1 New York Times best seller, Tolle claims to have sold more than 2 million copies, here you have the basic reason for our new age's pitiful.

What brought Tolle to his atrocious conclusions? He was suicidal. He saw no point of going on with his burden of misery, with “his loathsome existence.” His longing for nonexistence (and take everyone along with you that you can), he didn't understand a sudden awakening to the beauty of life. “I could feel myself being sucked into the void. It felt as if the void was inside myself rather than outside. Suddenly, there was no more fear, and I let myself fall into that void.” The way out of this sad world is remove it from the mind, and let others carry your burden. Tolle has millions of sympathizers who want no part of it, and predators taking full advantage of the opportunity to gain control.

Tolle: “In many people, as well as in most of the political and economic structures and the greater part of the media, the old consciousness is still deeply entrenched. Anyone who is still totally identified with the voice of their head-the stream of involuntary and incessant thinking-will inevitably fail to see what The Power of Now is all about… The compulsive thinker, which means almost everyone, lives in a state of apparent separateness, in an insanely complex world of continuous problems and conflict, a world that reflects the ever-increasing fragmentation of the mind… Enlightenment is not only the end of suffering and of continuous conflict within and without, but also the end of the dreadful enslavement to incessant thinking. What an incredible liberation this is!”

Tolle asks, “this breaking up of the old mold of consciousness or rather unconsciousness: is it something we have to do or will it happen anyway? … Your cooperation is an essential part of it. However you look at it, it is a quantum leap in the evolution of consciousness, as well as our only chance of survival as a race.” What does this cop-out freak know about quantum physics? Tolle's way is the easy way out, the way that places the burden on the responsible. Tolle's way is the crappy way a great many think today. An example is the pitiful Anna Nicole Smith.

Tolle has his story; I have mine. When I reached rock bottom, I had a totally different reaction. Rather than end it all, I wanted to do something bigger than life, and I did. I considered the source of my woes, the United States, and acted by challenging the tax collector in court. Tolle withdrew; I became proactive. Tolle has the following; people tell me mine is a rant.

In The Science of Being and Art of Living by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the Indian teacher of Transcendental Meditation, he suggested that the mind was seeking something-greater satisfaction and fulfillment. According to this teacher, the mind was looking in the wrong direction, it seems to me, looking in Tolle's direction

Tolle's thought, “enslavement to incessant thinking,” finds no help in the Tibitan Book of the Great Liberation: “Matter is derived from the mind, and not mind from matter.” This philosophy of the ancients, carried forward by quantum physics-the world we perceive, as far as physical reality is concerned, is not the ultimate reality. The colors we see are electrical energy that is processed in our brains. We see a green light. The quantum mind sees electrical energy. The world emerges from our quantum based minds.

The mind is so constituted that it is forced to construct its experience within the framework of space and time, but we now know these are not fundamental dimensions. The mind knows more than our sensibilities tell us. Both quantum physics and Einstein's relativity started from the nature of light, and both led to radical new understandings. Light is more fundamental than space, time, or matter. If you leave out our minds-these two paradigm shifts I've been talking about right along, relativity and quantum physics-you obliterate enlightenment. You cause suffering and conflict. You reestablish enslavement. Listen to Tolle and head back toward the Dark Ages.

We are beginning to awaken to the truth about reality-illuminated. Light has no mass, and the same for consciousness. Without light and consciousness, nothing would exist. There would be a perfect state: Tolle's nothingness. As we well know from experience, voids are filled with something-either good or evil.

Anyone want to argue for Tolle's Power of Now? My years of study and thinking have paid dividends. On the deepest level of consciousness, comes one's own spirituality. Quite different from Tolle's void, being in a quiet state, away from other distractions, one is quietly and spontaneously drawn into the recesses of the inner self, and empowered to attain the fulfillment of his or her dreams, empowered to bring future generations a better place to live.

Re: Power v. Enslavement

I’ll play- though my knowldege here is rusty. my way of looking at the universe is different from both perspectives to be sure.

no-mind is very important. not more important than mind- just equally. many people think that their thoughts are their own. that they generate them. this is not wholly true. they COULD be the generator of them, but most folks go about life in a habit-mode. in auto-pilot. they;re minds never cease. they think think think. they rationalize what they want as “logical” quite often. this is a sick mind- and the most common type of mind.

thinking is also very important- this i will not argue. the idea of silencing the mind is a neat one- but probably not possible as i see it. if you silence the thoughts, something else arises.

but there is something to be said for quiet-mind. tibetan buddhism talks about this alot. as does zen. both philosophies are really no more than tools, as far as im concerned. in tebetan system, they talk about the “gaps” between thoughts. a large part of early meditation is “widening those gaps”. this has a lot of benefits.

in zen, they talk about no-mind. many westerners think that is all there is to zen- but there is more. no-mind is not the end. it is a tool. imagine that the mind is a computer- a very neat and complicated one. sometimes, a computer OS gets so messed up that you have to reset it. this is no-mind. the problem with minds is that they tend to get messed up a lot. so it’s handy to be able to reset them often. it’s handy to reset them whenever they get STUCK in a particular MODE OF THINKING. this is very very very important. the thinking is not a problem. the getting stuck in one line of thought is a problem.

i would like to talk about thinking for a moment. the thinking that is generally spoken of is logical ratiocination. this form of thought is limited by the foundation of logic. it can only go so far. the mind is very good at finding the differences in patterns. the mind creates logical elements to symbolize other structures and perform operations with these structures abstractly. this action has limitations. we talked about godel’s incompleteness proof. i will not talk in depth here- but it is important that it is understood that logical thought cannot accurately model ANY real system. Not even an apple pie. much less the social interplay between individuals. some other part of the human does this, and to rely on the mind (rational thinking) alone is to fail to be a whole healthy being.

to be quiet-minded does not mean to be without valuation. anna nicole smith was poor at making values upon which to frame her life. it is not that she wasn’t THINKING. it was more that she didn’t stop thinking long enough to realize that her way was the uh oh way.

quiet-mind does not negate thinking. thinking arises in the quiet mind. that thinking is not wild, though, but tamed by something greater than itself. this is like the orthodox philosophy of nous. the spirit controls the mind controls the body. each must submit to the higher, but that submission does not negate the lower existance, but further substantiates it as real instead of false.

back to tolle. tolle was, i think, a rather poor communicator. im not sure what his real experiences or intents were- and honestly don’t care too much. im more interested in whether he says useful things. not even true- note- but useful.

it should be noted that light DOES have mass. that quantum particles to NOT all interact via electricity and that the brain does not actually operate via synapse firing nearly as much as it does via other pathways. just for clarity.

the mind that tolle talks about is not the mind that inlink talks about. they have different conceptions of “mind” and so they talk apples and oranges. to really be able to communicate, you have to put down your thinking long enough to pick up theirs. in this case, to argue against tolle, we must define “mind” as he seems to define it.

since i don’t know how this is- i will postulate a definition of mind as that ratiocinative process which defines the differences between various abstractions, performs symbolic operations and models the universe to the best of its ability through these operations. i will also try to follow tolles thinking by including in that definition- that process by which external stimuli are perceived, understood and reacted to.

the second part is the most important here, i think. the first part we already talked of the limitations within.

we are connected to the world. we experience stimuli, we try to understand and we react. we react in such a way as to alter our environment to that which we desire. in this case, inlink, you saw your tax problems as originating from outside yourself, understood those problems to your best, and then acted in such a way as to correct the problem. this makes sense. but where did the problem originate from? obviously SOMEONE out there was messed up. perhaps the system. either way, an entity was broken or screwed up. for you, the problem was external- but for someone or something, that problem was internal! This is the problem that tolle is talking about, i think. you are find by thinking and acting in this case, but the system or person you fought against was in error INSIDE. to fix their problem, the mind cannot fix. the mind perceives EXTERNAL stimuli. it cannot see itself. to fix itself, this person or system must have a quiet enough mind (not a no-mind) that it can perceive its error. if it is not a quiet mind, the error in the thinking (the pattern) cannot be resolved because that error is being used to address itself!

this is why quiet mind is important.

there is also the ideas he presents, as i recall, of not paying attention to future and past. this is, i think, a little far. perhaps he means to reset our deep-minds by temproraily paying no attention, for surely, the grain must be brought in and the animals fed…

yours,
dave

Re: Power v. Enslavement

Thanks for the commentary, but it leaves questions for which no one has an answer.

I bought two books at Barns & Noble the other day.  It's just great that Tolle's Power of  Now was individual to individual.  His idea of winning is by becoming a non-entity, of building a wall around one's self and covering it with flowers. It isn't a religion or a philosophy.  It's a common way of dealing with the awful world we must endure, and worthless. Things can only get worse. It says what I hear a lot: ”They ought to do something.” The other book I bought, A Brief History of Everything,  by Ken Wilber is another worthless way of dealing with the awful world, the authoritative way. 

“Sensations emerge with neuronal organisms, and perceptons emerge with a neural cord. Impulses emerge with a brain stem, and basic emotions with a limbic system. And so on. This is also a holarchy, but a subjective or interior holarchy.”  The closest to “holarchy” I could find was “hokum.”  The distinctive attribute of authority is terminology, which leaves one a victim of idiosyncratic confusion.  Authority's objective, of course, is to convince one that  it has all the answers. And this is particularly so when discussing the brain. I don't think about my heart beating or breathing, much less what's going on in my synapses. It's a natural for authority to talk about something I don't think about. 

I think with my mind. I don't think it is in my brain. I don't think it is anywhere. It exists in a state. I AM, a state of mind, for a time occupying this physical body. Classical science deals with the physical.  They've got my mind buried somewhere in the brain. They don't know where.  The law doesn't know anything about the mind. It operates out of its ivory tower of legal terminology.  Religion doesn't allow us a mind that thinks either.  it has its terminology. We are taught to count beads and endlessly recite sacred sayings.  For thousands of years,  hypocritical authorities have been successfully hoodwinking us into the belief that we don't have independent minds, convinced us that we are dependent on authority; we are not free spirits.

Is there even one book on the market written by a non-authority, a serious book for the individual, written in language he can understand, with the express purpose of putting the individual in the driver's seat?  It's pathetic!  All the authorities I've ever read are blinded by surface reflections.   If anyone knows of  a book written by one of we bottom fish that puts the individual in control of his life, please let me know.  I don't think such a book has ever been published.

Re: Power v. Enslavement

i think it would be neat to actually sit down by the fire and talk about these things! by golly, inlink, if you’ve a coffee pot and i’ve the gasoline, maybe i’ll come visit you, eh?

we sound so alike (i know it doesn’t seem so here)- i’m a raving anti-authoritarian… i might have sorta shifted my weight a bit from that- but i still hear myself (and my deep anger) in you…

even if maybe we’re both a little crazy, i sure appreciate your company in crazy-land.

yours,
dave

Re: Power v. Enslavement

something very funny happened this morning- which i think bears directly on the root (if not the substance) of this matter.

i take care of animals in my free time. i get up at about 5am, go out and feed about twenty donkies, two horses, a swan, 6 tibetan mastiff doggies, three cats, three mini-highland cows and 3 chickens. i turn loose the jennets (girl donkies) and let the chicks out of the chick house. at night, around 6pm, i bring em back in and feed em all again.

last night, i left the chickens out!

big boo boo. they’re all alright- none got eaten by anything. but i screwed up! i FORGOT because i wasn’t paying attention. now, this is no big thing by itself. but here’s the crux of the matter.

i’m a very hard worker. i work as intelligently as i can- whether i’m shoveling poo or operating a nuclear reactor. i believe that every task deserves my full attention and awareness- and that every task can be used as an allegory for growth. as a very, very responsible worker- i have always had a difficult time with “lazy” people. they used to drive me completely bonkers. lazy here means not paying attention- just ho-humming through work and life.

i judge people who do not pay attention as lazy. so… i’m in the unique situation now where i did not pay attention and left the chickens out over night! i am now my own judge- ouch!

one way to think of this- is that i should be more cautious and that i deserve that quick and quite terrible judgement. another is that we all make mistakes and this was my one goof. another is that perhaps it is a symptom of something deeper. perhaps im not sleeping enough. perhaps my mind has been elsewhere lately because of stress.

i don’t think that any of these assessments are TRULY honest, though. the truth is- that i am, in a certain and abstract way, the very authoritarian that i so dislike. i am what i have come to judge worst. oddly, i always have been. i have always been a very responsible and hard worker- but i have always been making mistakes which i passed off with ratiocination as different.

how does this apply?

well. introspection tells me, inlink, that you may be very much like me. ive been well known for my anti-centralist, anti-government, anti-established-religion, anti-self-help-guru sentiments. your sentiments on ken wilbur and other gurus sound very much like my own espousements. you have been a keen mirror to see how my own internal workings look, inlink, through your honesty, and i appreciate that.

im not sure that we are on the right track, though. this is a very recent thought for me. recently, ive been realizing that its entirely possible that in reaction to the “authoritarian” activity, i have swung completely to the extreme in the polar opposite. I have become the rabid rebel. i fight. i lash out. i am angry, resentful, full of piss and vinegar… when i first noticed how unpleasant i was- i was stunned and angry with myself! this led to some rather tedious internal drama. then, i realized that i had invented this rebel part of me to survive- there’s no need to judge that part. but neither is there a need to continue survival habits which having served me are no longer needed.

these last few years, more and more, i find myself looking out at those authoritarian people (and the lazy ones) as extensions of myself. i CAN love them- even if at a distance. i now know there is NOONE on this planet who is capable of enslaving me, david. there are those who might try to ensnare me, but i’m just to damn chaotic and wiley. i don’t even have to fight any more… i just laugh!

it might be argued that this is irresponsible- laughing instead of working for social change. but i am that change. when i fought against “the system” or “them” or authoritarian folks (and i was in the navy for six years!)… i did not actually make anything better. now, standing up for whats right, calmly and with deep surety- that’s different. but FIGHTING- to take arms up and wield them against a foe- that is to become the foe. it continues the war. the war is the problem. JUDGING is the problem. to judge is NOT to discern- in fact it is to go about NOT discerning.

i am beginning to see that there is a win-win. here is a segment of a poem about it:

v.
to we enemies of rome
you beseeched peace.
to we enemies of rome
has come war.
the dogs of east and west
are meet-
and we enemies of rome-
we
must
fall.

we are the enemies of rome- the enemies of authority. there is a voice that calls out for peace- and i don’t mean the “easy lovers of mankind”. we two dogs of war have been fighting for 30,000 years- at least. the only way for there to be peace is if _I_ decide to fall. i don’t mean becoming a big wuss and letting them crucify my friends. i mean, to put the tip of my weapon down and look my opponent in the eye- saying- im tired. you want control to create order. your intentions are good. i want freedom to create art. my intentions are good. perhaps we will fight some more, but lets us this christmas day put down arms- for just awhile- that we may collect our dead and know kindred peace in our hearts. this is the root, the heart and the crux.

and i found out something very odd- i was fighting me.

some thoughts.
yours,
dave

Re: Power v. Enslavement

Yes, we are very much alike. But this comes as no surprise to me. We are children of the New Age, seeds who have drifted on the wind to Zaadz.  The “piss and vinigar” in me has mellowed with age.  I'm the contemplative, quiet mind, living in my twilight years. Frankly, these are the best years of my long life.

Coincidentally, on my question of anyone knowing of a book by one of we bottom fish that puts us in the driver's seat, I think I may have found such a book, and right here on Zaadz. I'm investigating the book.

Re: Power v. Enslavement

Ahhh. the perfect mix…virgo and pisces..
Hi Joe, you responded to my blogand how there are not enough non- scholars talking about spirit in the literary world.

I am a bottom feeder…..lol

I have read and read…but like religion, rather than criticize it for what it is not, just take what does speak to me and APPLY it.
Even Eckert Tolle had a message, and that is to be presnet. in the Now..simple as that…

We all know it's a pretty messed up world, but rather than critcize it, I have decided to be a spreader of joy, peace and love.

I would rather be part of the solution than dwell on the problem…

So when I finally write my book…you'll buy it right?
Stop being so Virgo and get out of the details….lol
Love,
Marianne

Re: Power v. Enslavement

Wow! That was a quick response. I'll buy your book and you can buy mine.

I have a good friend in Florida who is Pisces, who is a mystic. Tony Legget writes a column in The Examiner. 

I'm amazed at the coincidences in my  contacts, and  the connecting events leading to a bigger than life picture. I feel that I'm living a charmed life.  It seems that you are, as well.

I'm all for love and peace, but I've a couple of questions. With so many people mindlessly wandering through life, so many led down a garden path, how do we make them understand that our world is not a place where we can ignore the fact that predators are always lurking?  

I've become more my “rising sign,” Aquarius, a child of the new age.  I quit counting the perforations in my toilet paper long ago. I'm looking at the big picture. Remember that we ate the forbidden fruit.  President Reagan looked at good and evil and called the Soviet Union an evil empire. He demanded  that the wall come down, and down it came.  Ignore evil and be enslaved.  We need to know how to overcome evil, right? 

Re: Power v. Enslavement

With so many people mindlessly wandering through life, so many led down a garden path, how do we make them understand that our world is not a place where we can ignore the fact that predators are always lurking?
  
There is alot of judgement in that statement, most people are not mindlessly wandering, they are caught in the drama of their lives and have no map or compass…there needs to be some compassion….

Joe, have you ever mindlessly wandered? Hurting, and blaming and being judged, and not able to take ownership for all the bad things that you have created in your life?

What was it that caused your awakening?
What have you learned ?

Then apply that to everyone you meet..they are just still in the lesson process, still getting that life is a series of choices and the lessons sometimes come at a very high price. (As you well know- as do I)
Do you blame a child for soiling their pants, or do you help them learn to use the bathroom???

Spirituality is like that;  we are all children in different levels of learning…none wrong, just undereducated…

Even predators bring lessons…but they too have their story.. no child wakes up a predator, they usually start by being a victim……
Love
Marianne

Re: Power v. Enslavement

I give everyone credit for being unique.  The saying is that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. My approach is to talk about my experiences and my take on them.  Some pick up on it, some don't. If they don't listen, it isn't my problem. 

Another of my principles is that you can slap me in the face once.  But you better not do it again.  There will definitely be consequences.

I guess I'm dense, but if one doesn't have a map or a compass, from my perspective, one doesn't have a mind of his own.  He obeys authority without quesiton.  My parents critized me for asking too many questions.  I was told to be a team player, put my shoulder to the wheel. I never was a team player. I didn't come to be a team player. I'm the type that questions everything. What if no one questioned authority. We'd live in a hive society.  Jesus questioned  authority and he judged authority when he turned over the money changers tables.  He was crucified, but he remains the most influential man who ever lived.  In my view, we should judge evil.

My wife is a people person.  People come to her for advice.  She has her way. I have mine. She doesn't question me and I don't question her. We are soul mates.  My wife says I live on some other plane.  She is awed.   My wife is in the here and now. I'm in the future. 

Sadly, a great many people are living in the past, in a world that is rapidly changing. The past world of optimization is being replaced with a world of innovation.  If you saw a blind man walking toward a cliff, would you not try to stop him?  Hundreds of millions are being brainwashed to live in the past.  It is downright irresponsible, even predatory to play to the brainwashed. 

Re: Power v. Enslavement

the centerpoint of this conversation revolves around the “premise of evil”. i don’t believe in evil and therefore have no evil to talk about. it makes it hard for me to be an active participant in this discussion… si i guess i’ll butt out and let it take its course- ill be watching though!

with admiration,
dave

Re: Power v. Enslavement

To people who don't believe in evil, say I: evil means morally wrong. I refer you to the “unfallen man,” the man who knew only good.  That man was not human. Humans know morality.

Came the temptation of Eve, the serpent in the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and this message: “Ye shall surely not die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

So, does knowing evil mean I'm born in sin? I don't think so.  Was it an afterthought that God created me with reason and logic?  I think you people who don't know evil don't  believe the Bible's interpretation, but you know immorality when you see it. Am  I right or wrong?

Re: Power v. Enslavement

well. for starters, im not christian in the modern accepted sense. jesus was a man to me. i do not reject the scriptures- but i disagree vehemently with those who proclaim jesus as god- and reject the rest of humanity. the bible that i see on my shelf has a lot of books in it that were removed by the catholic church- hundreds of years after jesus died. these books influence my thinking a lot, if it helps.

i do not believe in evil, good, morality or sin. period. they are to me illusions. it is not that i want to act nastily- or not take responsibility for my actions. im not destructive. its just that i reject modern notions on morailty. just as socrates once did.

if we redefined morality in an unusual way, i COULD say that i resonate with it. but this would be silly because the ideas of good and evil would be so different as to be unrecognizable as they were. better to invent a new word.

i resonate with the idea of being creative. being truly creative does not have a flip side- destructive. truly creative encompasses being destructive also. it sees decomposition as a creative process. being truly creative, as a form of moraility, means recognizing that god is INSIDE of every single thing. the prime mover accepts all things as they are, so why should not i? the prime mover even accepts that i will stand up to change things sometimes, so why should not i? this does not mean, “god accepts violence, so shall i be violent.” this is a different way of thinking. it means, “god accepts that violence is, therefore it exists at god’s behest and is naturally good. there must be no evil in the universe as god created it. therefore, having real faith in god, i will look at all existing phenomenon as good- as having a lesson- as having the divine spark.”

it means discerning instead of judging. the words are very different.

“know immorality when we see it” yes- but it is an entirely DIFFERENT morality which holds no evil and no good. it simply is, self-arising as an aspect of divine intelligence. morality springs directly forth from god- whatever god is- and something like creativity- in that it too is a mysetery and cannot be ratiocinated.

Re: Power v. Enslavement

The question goes beyond enslavement. On the theory of good and evil, Eve, being a woman, would naturally have wanted power. She was persuaded by the serpent to eat the forbidden fruit, and therefore to have the power of the gods, and she persuaded Adam. The two of them were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Since he was the stronger of the two, Adam was forced to plow the ground. That was the beginning of male dominance in the Middle East, which still exists unchanged.

The West industrialized, thus giving women their place in the sun. How do we deal with the Middle East's male dominance, the atomic bomb, and with the West's submissive female influence? Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, laughably, went to the Middle East for the purpose of negotiating peace with dominant males, which, of course, would have to be strictly on their terms. They've been in unquestioned control for 5,000 years. No woman is going to change their views in the slightest.

Congress, to help the submissive female peace process along, is forcing American troops out of the Middle East by cutting off funding. With the present influence of women in the West, and the unflinching male dominance in the Middle East (at this point they have not given an inch of ground), this scenario could, in the end, easily reactivate male dominance in the West, and ultimately to wipe out all life on Earth, leaving the universe, as far as we know, devoid of all life.

Therefore, would the reactivation of male dominance in the West, in your view, be creative, and therefore good, or at least not evil. Moreover, if life ceased to exist, would there be a reason for God or creation? If I'm not mistaken, you've said that non-existence is preferable.

Re: Power v. Enslavement

You are mistaken.

I don’t buy the “being a woman, would naturally have wanted power.”
I do buy that the middle east buys this baloney and that it affects their thinking.

Jung once noted that you can’t play into the delerium of a crazy person to help them escape their delerium. I agree with him. You can’t play into male dominance to fix male dominance.

Female or male dominance is all the same- dominance. Dominance is the root of suffering. When dominance ends, there will be peace. Dominance cannot be fixed with more domination. Whether we play a queen of hearts or a jack of spades is irrelevant. We, as a whole nation, ought to play what we believe is most integritous- dismissing the dramatic desires of other nations.

What I think we ought to do in the Middle East is beyond the scope.

I feel that my words are being seen through some strange lenses- that they are really being read as someone wants to read them. Without an open mind, so to speak.

I appreciate having learned something of my own nature here, but I don’t think there is anything else I can learn in a non-cooperative atmosphere of argument. Argument is different than discussion- discussion is the trading of ideas which continuously alter each other. There is no flexibility here. My words are misused and so I shant share tehm further.

Love and thanks,
dave