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Some reactions to Susmita's paperMalcolm said Feb 20, 2007, 12:23 PM: |
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I’ve just skimmed through Susmita’s paper. Here are a few quick reactions. I agree that the capitalist system is one of the key things that need to change if we’re to have a sustainable future. (Another is the materialist scientific view of the world, see my book “The Science of Oneness”).
There are many moves around the world to create alternative currencies. Perhaps the best known is LETS (Local Exchange Trading System) in which people in a local community exchange goods and services for ‘Acorns’ (or whatever else they choose to call the currency). A central register of debits and credits is kept for each member, with limits on how much you can go into debt or credit. There are hundreds around the world. Just Google LETS for lots of info. My personal experience of the system here in Morayshire (Scotland) is that there are few offers of the things i want to buy, making it hard to participate. But many other people are active traders. Another alternative that is growing rapidly is to create a local currency. Here in the Findhorn Community we have the EKO for use in internal transactions. A key advantage is that the money cannot leave the community and hence feeds our local economy. By contrast normal Pounds (or Dollars) soon end up in the hands of big corporations in the cities. Again, there are lots of local currencies now - Wikipedia claims 2500! A variation on this theme is time-based currencies such as Ithaca Hours, in the city of Ithaca, NY. Advantage? Everyone gets paid the same for their time. Once again, Google will get you the full picture. Over 10 years ago Margrit Kennedy wrote “Interest and Inflation Free Money: Creating an exchange medium that works for everybody and protects the earth.” It’s a clear and concise discussion of the technicalities and potential for anyone wanting to delve into the detail. By the way, Margrit lives in the Lebensgarten ecovillage in Germany - along with Findhorn they are one of the founders of the Global Ecovillage Network. Ecovillages are small (typically 10 - 500) communities that are seeking to be ecologically, economically, socially, culturally and spiritually sustainable. Very inspiring places. Blessings, Malcolm |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperRaf said Feb 20, 2007, 7:02 PM: |
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Dear All, |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's papermita said Feb 21, 2007, 3:40 PM: |
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Thankyou malcolm and Raf for your thougthful contribution. Wonder whether Margrit's paper is online or is there a link for it? |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperbasho said Mar 21, 2007, 1:32 PM: |
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'I think it's important that the Central Banks acknowledge what is going…' |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperRaf said Mar 21, 2007, 5:07 PM: |
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That's another good question. The answer depends on which central bank you are talking about: the ones which are “owned” by the government and the ones which are private institutions. |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperbasho said Mar 22, 2007, 6:46 AM: |
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hi raf- |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's papermita said Mar 22, 2007, 5:38 PM: |
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About the question of ownership of central banks, I read somewhere vast majority of countries in the world adopted the bank of england and Fed model, which is they claim to protect monetary system out of politics and government intervention (that is we the people). |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperMalcolm said Feb 22, 2007, 1:02 AM: |
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Thanks, Susmita |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperRaf said Feb 22, 2007, 1:22 AM: |
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Dear All, |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's papermita said Feb 22, 2007, 4:19 PM: |
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Thanks Raf for finding that link. I just scanned Margrit's paper and there is much value in the enlightened discussion there. However, I do not see an explanation of why charging usury or compound interest on money itself is indefensible, except that it is mathematically impossible to sustain an exponential growth and more significantly …. |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperRaf said Feb 22, 2007, 6:20 PM: |
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Dear Mita, |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's papermita said Mar 1, 2007, 7:32 PM: |
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My post on Stephen zarlenga is relevant here. The 80/20 ratio you mention may be a very short term adjustment but it does not really change the structural problem or the misperception that money is a commodity with store of value, neither shift the power of issue to people or Parliament. |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperRaf said Mar 2, 2007, 2:00 AM: |
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Dear Mita, |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's papermita said Mar 3, 2007, 8:30 AM: |
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Rafi I do appreciate your effort. We all need to work together. My emphasis is on eduacting people about money itself, demystify the many aspects of monetary system we inherited without understanding….even the framers of our constiution except a few were not sure about how to handle control or issue of money, because of the deep suspicion of government from the colonnial experience. |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperbasho said Mar 21, 2007, 1:27 PM: |
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'At the same time moves towards a range of local and virtual currencies will help take power away from the banks.' |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperRaf said Mar 21, 2007, 4:01 PM: |
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The power to create new money via interest bearing loans resides with the private banking system. This means they are in control of who can access money. |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperbasho said Mar 22, 2007, 3:30 AM: |
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hi raf- “The power to create new money via interest bearing loans resides with the private banking system. This means they are in control of who can access money.”
well, i don't know how they do it in NZ, but in the u.s. 'new fiat' is created by the fed. which is, in essence, a private bank. see: who owns the fed its chairman b. bernacke has been unaffectionately named 'helicopter ben' because of these statements: 'He got it after his remark that he’d drop dollars from a helicopter if that was needed to stimulate the economy - meaning, of course, he’d keep the printing press running “full out” if that’s what it took. Central bankers never run out of paper or ink.' see
why do central bankers never run out of paper and ink?
coincident with this idiocy the fed has stopped reporting m3 figures. so no one really knows how much paper is being printed. looking at the charts:
why is the € and CHF becoming more expensive in us$ terms?
“Complimentary currenices return this power to the local level where the currency is focused on community objectives.” if one globalizes the word 'community' to mean 'country', then you have a version of 'complimentary currencies' already in place, don't you? for example, the nz 'community' (country) has its 'currency focused on community (country) objectives.' for currencies to be 'complimentary' they must be valued 'to something'. if not then each community can print all the paper they like to purchase goods from another community. a dramatic example of this is the current u.s. financial philosophy. the problem is that if i sell merino wool to a mfg. (assuming there is one) in the u.s. for x$ a kilo, and i am paid in u.s.$ and helicopter ben is running his money press overtime then the x$ i get today is worth something less than x$ tomorrow. if i take the $us to the bank and convert to $nz i get fewer of them, because the glut of $us lowers their value. china is in this bind at the present moment along with the other asian bloc exporters. they hold billions in $us and the value is decreasing everyday. google 'central bank of china' to see how they are solving this problem. for currencies to be 'complimentary' they have to be valued 'to something'. what could that 'something' be? 'The interest component is an unnecessary charge and is in effect a huge transfer of wealth from the state to the private sector. If you want to understand why 1% of the population holds 50% of the wealth then this is where you should look.' money is commodity. people that are employed to deal in this commodity also must be paid for their work (how much is another question.). the cost of money is called interest. interest, as a policy tool, is a way of controlling the amount of money in circulation, in particular when fiat is not linked 'to something'. you might these links of some interest: http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2007/cr021507.htm http://www2.gsb.columbia.edu/faculty/jstiglitz/ http://www.worldbank.org/knowledge/chiefecon/stiglitz.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises the best |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperbasho said Mar 21, 2007, 1:30 PM: |
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'The money supply must be constrained so that the overall annual increase remains the same as it would have been or actually set within a certain limit. ' |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperRaf said Mar 21, 2007, 4:21 PM: |
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This is a good question. Until now monetarist theory has looked to control the physical money supply (M3 or similar) but has done it using monetary policy ie raising or lowering interest rates. |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperbasho said Mar 22, 2007, 6:26 AM: |
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“This is a good question. Until now monetarist theory has looked |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's papermita said Jul 16, 2007, 3:11 PM: |
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Here's more confirmation on The British Never Quit India, and how it got hold of the USA. |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paper~C4Chaos said Jul 17, 2007, 2:30 AM: |
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thanks for the links! |
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's papermita said Aug 20, 2007, 8:41 PM: |
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Hi C~, sorry I've been away for some time. I myself never had the solid 3-4 hour time to watch it. Wonder what you and the team thought about it. Please post any coments for other readers here. here's my response
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Re: Some reactions to Susmita's paperglenn said Sep 6, 2007, 3:18 PM: |
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I had shared some of my thoughts with Mita, but she wrote and suggested that I share them with the group. Therefore, this is a very quick brush stroke. I have been studying money for a few years now, and I came to the conclusion that we were in trouble, and that is not a recent conclusion. The banksters have been meddling with the system for far too long now. Consequently, I really wasn't keen about a pod which concerned itself with Capitalism until I read Mita's article, that is. |
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