Gaia: DIVING DEEPER: A Writing Workshop - DIVING DEEPER with Sandra Jensen - ON COMMENTING

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:00:15 GMT

Big YES to reading. Isn't it fun that reading is part of our 'work'? what a gift! (and quite frankly, in my, ahem, book, a prerequisite to the art. life and craft of being a writer).

I'd love for people to share novels / memoirs that have inspired them re writing (on the Tree House? ).

xo

And to add, that there is now an On Giving Constructive Criticism thread, which outlines more articulately and clearly some of what has been brought up here, and opens up the possibility of a deeper 'commenting' on work.

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://warrenburrows.gaia.com — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 02:38:09 GMT

yes Tom ...

and to read you hearten's my soul in a way you couldn't even begin to imagine friend ... I miss you on the pod more than words can say ... and yes, I read all the time Master.

Jim x

ps, of course, that's a hint and maybe even a push to all of the rest of the poets and writers ... don't be timid ... dive ... what have you got to lose except perhaps some air.

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://maletbon.gaia.com — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 20:22:56 GMT

I knew I was missing a bunch of very valuable stuff by not coming here more often lately.

Sea, so sorry it took us so long to respond to your barbaric yawp. It can hurt when one yawps from the depths of one's soul and all that comes back is echoes.

Spirituality is central to what we do here, if not everything and all. Our words are silver threads that keep us connected as One Soul searching for itself. Such truth and terror cannot be faced without Spirit. I don't have answers, but am loaded with questions. First of which: What of Spirit?

God bless you Loni Love, for coming back!!! One good thing about being a writer: if you aren't writing, you can always read, and that's almost as good.

Love,

Tom

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://Fluffbug.gaia.com — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:01:57 GMT

"Thank you for wondering where I have gone. I was wondering, too," was all she could muster for today, but it was something! It was a sentence, after all. It was past-tense.

Re: ON COMMENTING

Thu, 06 Sep 2007 00:12:27 GMT

I briefly glanced over this 'On Commenting' when I got to Zaadz in June but never took the time to ingest the whole thing. It appears the subject matter I brought up, in "Our Treasury of Stories" has been, if not thoroughly explored, certainly examined thoughtfully and with much brilliance from the contributors. The only discussion left would be the spirituality aspect. My small thoughts put forward encompass only a fraction of what was said here and needs no expounding upon, though thank you Sandra for making note of it. Where have these other gifted writers (among many), Synerjyz, Loni & Lynn gone. Did everyone leave after this. This massive leap of confrontation, honesty and still belief in one another through pain startled me. I have fed my heart through reading this thread. Not the anger but the raw willingness to explore beyond the boundaries of comfort. All because of Mary's leap, Derby Day Noodle's, incredible writing by a gifted writer who managed with grace, who knew, dear Mary, it would have far reaching effects to the heart of another months later. As Gabrielle said, written in stone, stumbled upon later. Is that the spiritual connection? After reading all that was said in the "On Commenting," the authenticity of every voice and the ability to argue, the self honesty, the quality and sophistication of the writing. I learned so much from each posting, which I have spent the afternoon reading several times, and I could cry with lack. I cannot argue without being distortedly wounded. I cannot face myself with such honesty. To see myself in such a way and admit it is like cracking my ribs open without anesthetic. Like Loni says, i can not go far in disagreement, I can not argue with words so fluently, they get tied up in my head. This thread exposed the artificialness, the mannequin -- much thinking to do -- I could thank with flowery phrases, I could stop looking in the mirror that has been held up, again Dorian Grey seems to play. Synerjyz's second to last entry -- It was a lie, gave my ego pause, another stone spirit hurled into the future. Just Plain Writing Sea

Re: ON COMMENTING - and commenting to the comments

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 19:21:09 GMT

This is a copy from this thread that should be read as it 'shows' what I'm writing about.

I realise again and again that this online workshop is very different to my 'live' workshops. In my live workshops, the writing is read out by me, anonymously. The writer simply listens and makes no answer whatsoever to the feedback that is given by the others, who give feedback on the writing as per my guidelines (ie not talking about the author, but the writing and the characters in the writing). I tried to simulate this experience in the anonymous postings, however I also feel there is a positive aspect to the 'communal' sharing with each other that takes place on the non-anonymous postings.

I also see from this thread that if we are to maintain the supportive aspect of not giving 'sympathy' or other opinions to the writer as if the work is about them, then it is helpful if we as the writer return comments about how what is said supports them as a writer, or their writing, rather than themselves as their beings. Good lord I'm having a hard time expressing something that I think is very simple (I've just heard that the apartment I've been waiting on for 2 weeks is ours, Yay!!!).

I loved Sea's new thread about the healing aspect of story telling. We are doing this all the time here, even if the work we share is completely fictional ( I don't believe there is such a thing actually, anything we write is about ourselves in some way or another).

I have experienced this healing so many times I know the truth of it. And part of the healing does seem to be absolutely connected to being with 'the work' - the 'story' as if it is a piece of art. We listen, we take it in. It changes us. We don't need to say anything to the story-teller, and in fact this can take away the power of the story if we say too much, and it can also take away the power of the story if the person who wrote it says too much about it on a personal level.

it seems to me that the story itself has a life of its own, as if it is a kind of angelic being that arises out of our souls , and stands free and independent - a balm and a wisdom for all, the writer/speaker/the listeners. If we were a 'live' group of course there would be words, but most of the words would probably be hums of appreciation. And yes, we are here to discover not only our deep stories, but also to craft those stories so they speak as brightly as they can. So we do talk about 'what works' and how to get 'closer in', or how to bring to life the story a little more.

I'm rambling -- mainly what I'm saying is that in our comments and our 'comments back' to the comments, stay with the 'writing' - and the healing happens on a very very deep level. I feel that this underground level is like playing with the unconscious - we cannot do this face on, the deep things inside of ourselves hide and twist and turn if we are to forthright and aggressive. But by staying with the writing, they can uncoil, release, unfold.

It is a little like being with cats, if you know cats... come up to them as if they are a rock and they will shy away. But come up to them as if you might be doing something else altogether, they will roll over and show you their softunderbellies.

I will copy this thread to "On Commenting" - and I'd like any response to it to go there, and keep the rest of this space for Marlene's post.

Love,
Sandra

Re: ON COMMENTING

Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:12:39 GMT

Mary, Tom, Loni, Gabriele, Sandra: Unreel this in your mind's-eye theater, folks: we're sitting around a table with the beverage of our choice having this same discussion and we can read each other's body language, catch the arch of an eyebrow or the beginnings of a smile. We would most likely be laughing our heads off. As Sandra suggests, this is one of the severe limitations of this medium. Most communication is non-verbal and here we are, in essence, criticizing one another's children. We're doing the best we can with the tools that we've got, and some have more facility than others but no one, I firmly believe, has come here with malicious intent. If you inadvertantly hurt me with your remarks, I hereby forgive you in advance, and I hope you'll do the same for me. I'm leaving myself open because I trust and like you all very much and I feel a genuine sense of kinship with you. Will this journey make us better writers? I hope so, but I really don't know. But if we keep our minds and hearts open we can't help becoming fuller, richer people. Burt

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Sat, 09 Jun 2007 17:50:22 GMT

I would like to add my two bits at this point, which is to simply bring our attention to the fact that we are attempting to communicate using a medium that is very very limited. I don't know the specific statistics, but when we are together in 'real life' the much larger part of how we communicate is not through the words we use, but through our body language, tone of voice, energy fields etc.

For me it is exciting to see if we can tune in across the medium, with the medium, in the same way that we do in person. It does mean taking more time when we sit and read someone's words, it does mean taking more time when we respond back. It is so easy to press 'send' to things we would never do in person.

My sister-in-law is 'high up' in government. She spearheaded a Harvard study on email interaction in businesses. What she found was shocking. People said things they didn't mean, got angry at things that were not in fact said etc etc. In one situation the company had to disconnect their employees from the internet.

I've been emailing since I was 16. That's nearly 30 years. I have learned a lot over these 30 years, and the main thing I have learned is not to take *anything* anyone writes to me on email personally.

Oh I do, but I don't engage with the part of me that is taking it personally. I just watch: Ah, there's that bit feeling hurt and upset or angry or wanting it a different way, there's me wanting to be seen, heard or whatever.

If something someone writes to me is triggering, I do not respond immediately. Ever. I go away, maybe talk it through with someone, or simply come back the next day and have another read. If I have a response, I do not send it immediately. I wait a while. Nearly always my feelings settle, and I see with clearer eyes & heart - even if all I see is that I simply don't know what the other person really meant or felt when they wrote what they did.

If I do interact, and it seems to stay 'stuck' via email, I pick up the telephone.

Now we are not going to be doing that much here, ( picking up telephones), but I do want to underline how easy it is to come across 'differently' to how you mean to here in digi-land; how easy it is to 'react' and write something and hit send from behind the safety of your computer, when you might do something very different in real life.

And of course, what goes on here mirrors the miscommunication we have when we are together, it's not just happening via email/internet community interfaces.

I try to ask myself, when I'm in a 'sticky' communication, what is my intent here? Is it to 'heard'? Is it to be seen, or thought of well, or liked? Is it to prove a point? I let these questions sit gently, opening windows to what is arising. I try not to 'do' anything with what arises, just watch, and be 'with'.

I keep bringing myself back to what is happening within me. My feelings, my sensations. This is why I love the Byron Katie work, and highly recommend it to all of us here on Diving Deeper. It is a written practise... and free. All you need to know is on the website. Do not just read 'about' it, do it. Do the writing. It is a very simple and effective process.

I appreciate all the voices here in this dialogue.

And yes, Mary, it should be fun here :-) this is a rather serious thread. It doesn't have to be. I would love you to post your wonderful poetry and other work up, and same for you Loni...

If we get stuck in our comments, we can return here to discuss what happened, but for now I'd so much like to read more writing. Even better, to turn your experience on this thread into creative work. Read your own posts. Choose a line or a couple of words that jump out at you, and write for 20 minutes on it. See what happens. I would so appreciate to see this work.

With love,
Sandra

p.s. Sorry. Two bits? I gotta be kidding.

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://Fluffbug.gaia.com — Sat, 09 Jun 2007 17:17:10 GMT

Dear Mary,

I do not know what you are supposed to say. It seems my request has been received as some sort of an attack. That is not the intention with which it was sent, but that is how things happen in the world, yes?

I often get so caught up in being misunderstood that I forget that my intentions do not matter if pain was caused. I am making an effort not to do that now. So, please let me apologize for any uncomfortable feelings I may have incited. I can see that my words were not taken well. We do not know each other well, and it was a bit presumptuous of me to assume that you would immediately catch my tone, and know that it is just the way I talk and not the way I talk when I am angry.

I was actually asking, in the spirit of the original conversation, for clarification on what you look for in a comment. I used your comment as an example because it was readily available and not because of any personal anger or offense that the comment caused for me. Basically, I just wanted to know how 'reflections of impressions' differ from 'impressions'.

It was my intention to have a conversation that might expand my knowledge of and ability to comment. I want very much to comment in an effective and supportive way, and am always looking for some new insight on the subject. I thought 'On Commenting' was as good a place to have that conversation as any.

I did not mean to make you feel like you were not clear enough in your original comment to Tom. I did not mean to say, "You NEED to be more clear." My communication was meant to request further clarity, not an infusion of something that was lacking.

I had no knowledge, nor do I now, of your original exchange with Tom. My comment was not meant to be personal or to reference anything but the difference between reflections and impressions that I am unclear on. If I phrased it in a way that made it appear personal or referential I apologize again.

I hope that this creates a more inviting world for you to share your ideas, and values in. That was my original intent. If I failed in my original attempt, I failed. If this does not come across as loving and clear I will attempt anew, or shut my trap at your request.

In any case I appreciate your honesty, and willingness to communicate through what you perceived to be an attack on your communications. Many a strong woman would not have come this far in the conversation. So, simultaneously,

I apologize and I thank you,

Loni

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://maletbon.gaia.com — Sat, 09 Jun 2007 05:08:39 GMT

I know what you mean about peace and safety, Mary. We all want that, I'm sure. Thanks for having the gumption to stand up and say what you feel, even if it seems hopeless.

I think we've all been mirrors for one another here and now maybe we can step back and say Namaste (if we speak French anyway) and let it go in love. Maybe it can become safer here. We all want it to be safe and supportive. I know I try to be supportive, yet sometimes I fail. But having you here, Mary, has helped me learn and grow and see how I can hurt people. I'll still fail, in many ways I'm sure, but thanks to you I'll fail less.

At least, than is my plan and hope.

God Bless,

Tom

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://gardenplanetproject.gaia.com — Sat, 09 Jun 2007 00:11:53 GMT

What am I supposed to say, Loni? Tom was browbeating someone's creative effort. I responded with my impression. It was not a critique of his writing, which would call for reflection of impression, but a comment on his criticism of another, which follows different standards. Perhaps I overstepped my boundaries. Or perhaps you overstep yours. Who can say, and what does it matter in the end?

All I know is that I am tired of argument, tired of hurting. If you recall, it was my being reamed by Tom that started this whole thing, and I feel humiliated enough having that exchange broadcast for all to peruse and analyze. Then I step up in defense of another's creative effort, and I get criticized for not satisfying your standards of clarity.

I can't remember why I wanted to be here right now. I guess I thought it would be fun, maybe I would find someplace I belonged, someplace I wouldn't be afraid to be myself. But it is just another sword on which to skewer myself, it seems.

I am tired of hurting. I need peace, and safety, Loni. Not a war of words.

Re: ON COMMENTING

Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:45:42 GMT

dear ones, all of you,

reading the recent responses, it becomes obvious that I have left some 'unfinished business' here. I was not aware of the fact that whatever we publish here is almost like carved in stone, it doesn't go away, and even if we move on, others might stumble over whatever we have said and done somewhere.

my part in all of this is that I have a very strong pattern of retreat when I feel hurt. I often don't go into direct contact and tell the other, in this case Tom, what has touched me how. I don't stay present and I don't stay in contact. that's an observation. I wish I would do things differently, but that's what I'm struggling with.

there has been an email exchange between me and Tom after I read how worried he was that he might have hurt me.

late, but fortunately never too late, for any new reader coming to this thread, let me put my email to Tom here, the one I wrote after I had left my black hole and even had written a piece of NEWS about it, which was a great experience for me.

here comes my email.

dear Tom,

yes it's true, I've gone somewhere. ;)

it is also true that your comment on commenting has triggered a very painful place in me and made my bubble burst. it did have a little fissure already by then, but reading you I went over the edge.

and that's really all that happened. I do take things like that very personally when they occur, but it doesn't last, and with you not long at all. I don't really think 'you hurt me'.

these crashes keep happening, and if there's no one to trigger any pain in me, I have them anyway and feel like shit for no obvious 'reason'. it's been a strong experience and I've reacted in my familiar pattern of retreat and cutting myself off, and even that was ok. there was something different in the end, when I was able opening up and writing from that place.

I love the phrase “use it for your art”, what ever it may be.

no harm done, Tom. I'm back and fine.

sending love,
Gabriele

for me, the lesson in this is to find a more appropriate way of dealing with these disturbences in me when they occur. believe me, my husband also would be extremely greatful if I managed to change that pattern into staying present and in contact! :)

with love to all,
Gabriele

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 12:08:53 GMT

Mary, Tom, Loni.

I have to leave in a few minutes, and so am unable to give this new thread-within-a-thread its due consideration.

No one is "right" here. All we have is what is. Can we be with what is, as Helen so beautifully explores in Mushin's blog Defuse Me.?

And just because no one is 'right' here, does not mean there is not something to look at.

Tom, more than once here people have responded to your words in a way that is commonly called 'negatively'. I appreciate your response to Mary, your willingness to hear.

Mary, I liked what you wrote to Tom. That he responded in the way he did tells me that you spoke in a way that reached him.

And I also would have liked more of your process: your wishes/desires in terms of how we are to be together to be included as yours, rather than a statement of fact. And, at the same time, I applaud your courage in coming out so directly, being willing to stand in the firing-line.

Loni - I agreed with what you wrote to Mary, and as with her, I would have liked more of your process included. How you felt reading her, rather than what you thought was the 'right' thing. You say you are not angry, and yet this is how the words land. I suspect you were trying to be clear.

Believe me I struggle here - one half of me is 100% sure I 'KNOW", and can see how it is or should be for others, with others. Often, when I try to be 'clear' about what I know, I end up being 'cool' ( cold ).

The other half, also 100% says: I do not know.

I do not want to 'clip' anyone's wings here. I want to support us all to say what we feel, no matter how it comes out, no matter how uncomfortable the possible consequences. I want to support us to be willing to read our own words as if we have written them for oursleves, and to come back, and share that experience.

I'd like us to keep reminding ourselves of the following possibilities:

- What I see in another is in me.
- What I say to another, is for me.
- What I want from another, is what I want from myself.

And, last, but most definitely not least:

- Everything I do and think affects everyone, everything.

What comes to me right now, is for a space of silence. ( Yes, sorry, I know I just had 'my say'...).

That we sit together, albeit in this virtual space, crossing time-zones and no doubt a few other zones too.

Let us enter the We Space of what I call deep listening.

Listening.

Breathing.

Listening.

Breathing.

Can you hear the sound of your breath?

Can you hear the sound of Mary's breath?

Tom's?

Loni's?

Gabriele's?

Later, If there is something to share, about your experience during this deep listening, please do.

~ Love and support to all,
Sandra

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://Fluffbug.gaia.com — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 06:22:33 GMT

Mary,

You wrote:

I wonder if some private conversations with Sandra and your willingness to integrate this kind of feedback may help align your actions with the intentions of this pod? Please remember: we are not here to judge or interpret, only to reflect.

And it is your job to polish your own mirror, not to project your distortions.

In all other respects, Tom, you appear to be a spontaneous and lovely soul, just lacking some awareness of your boundaries, fundamentally misunderstanding the natural propensities of the human mind and failing to appreciate the devastation inadvertently created by unskilled management of our exquisitely powerful but often distorted perception.

I hope you are as much a gentleman with Gabrielle as you were with me, once you understood what a mess you had made of things…

It is not about being right, it is about being real.

This all occurs for me as judgment and interpretation. Especially the entire paragraph beginning with, "In all other respects, Tom, you appear to be a spontaneous and lovely soul," These are not facts. They are made up. I have it that you made up that Tom is spontaneous and lovely in the same way that you made up that his perception of Gabriele is 'distorted'.

I don't want to leave you with "She's angry," or "She thinks I am wrong." That is not the case. I have no problem with judgments. I make them all the time. My request is that you be clear when distinguishing the word 'reflect' so that I have an opportunity to get into your world.

I was left with the experience of talking about, and reading judgments and interpretations with the word 'reflect' thrown in.

I request that you be clear about what reflect means for you, and then relate that in such a way that I will get it. Will you accept my request?

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://maletbon.gaia.com — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 03:58:54 GMT

Oh Mary, am I glad to see you back! Thanks for pointing this out to me again. I've apologized to Gabriele, though not quite as profusely as I did to you, since what I did to you was from anger and this was from what I misconceived as humor.

You're right about the boundary thing. I don't know what it is with me. Somehow I assume that people will take my humor the right way, that is, the way I think they should take it. Pretty funny right. That's definitely a boundary issue.

I also have the thing going where if I love somebody I'll insult them, because I feel it makes us closer somehow, like fellow goofballs on the bowling lane of life. You know when you poke fun at somebody's foibles because you love them so? I never insult people I consider strangers.

Then there's my penchant for phraseology. That is, I would rather lay down a well-phrased sentence than say exactly what I think, since well-crafted fiction is much preferable to reality, which I don't believe in anyway. Lord knows how I ever thought the meat and potatoes line was well phrased, especially amongst veggie lovers, but I agree with you on that too. Your heart is none of my business. Yet my heart is of yours. Because that is what I'm here for, to let other people help me find my long-lost heart. I am not here for feedback, either taken or given. I am here for feed.

And you have fed my soul so much love and beauty and wisdom. And helped me find my heart. Thank you ever so much for that Mary.

I know you think I should always express myself out of concern and love for other people, and I shouldn't judge that I think you're looking at the work differently than I am, but if I'm being true to myself and others I'm not sure I'm capable of that kind of complete positive acting at all times, at least not yet. All I can do is apologize afterwards, or have somebody vette all my posts, which ain't happenin'. Thank you for taking Gabriele's side in this though. Once more you show your love and concern and bright shining soul.

I will try to be more circumspect in the future.

Thanks Bud,

Tom

PS. Good luck getting me not to judge and interpret. I think that must be your issue. How can we not?

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://gardenplanetproject.gaia.com — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 00:02:55 GMT

Tom, buddy, I am somewhat nonplussed at your response to Gabrielle. Your tone is condescending and competitive, as if it is some sort of "gotcha" game. And then you say:

Here we don't mess with theoreticals, we dig into the meat and potatoes of one another's yearning hearts.

I am confused about this. My "yearning heart" is not a subject for your perusal. It is not a source of psychological "juice" for your consumption. What we are doing here is reflecting our responses to another person's expression in order to create feedback for them. It is essential to polish our own mirrors prior to reflection to improve the accuracy of the feedback, but the intent is not to interpret or judge content.

You are such a smart man, but seem tangled in your own projections. You appear to lack sensitivity to your own power to move others. Your words are unnecessarily challenging and hurtful.

This surprises me, because you responded with awareness and contrition when you pulled this on me. Is it possible that you owe Gabrielle an apology as well?

Gabrielle, like myself, appears to be bridging that impossible gap between the self supported by others and the truly integrated, free and spontaneous self of a fully realizing human becoming. She doesn't deserve this kind of treatment any more than I did.

I wonder if some private conversations with Sandra and your willingness to integrate this kind of feedback may help align your actions with the intentions of this pod? Please remember: we are not here to judge or interpret, only to reflect.

And it is your job to polish your own mirror, not to project your distortions.

In all other respects, Tom, you appear to be a spontaneous and lovely soul, just lacking some awareness of your boundaries, fundamentally misunderstanding the natural propensities of the human mind and failing to appreciate the devastation inadvertently created by unskilled management of our exquisitely powerful but often distorted perception.

I hope you are as much a gentleman with Gabrielle as you were with me, once you understood what a mess you had made of things...

It is not about being right, it is about being real.

Peace.

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Thu, 31 May 2007 19:49:11 GMT

I ditto Tom, dear Lynn. Thanks for reading all this and adding your voice of support & clarifying some areas.

The distinction between editing and proofreading is excellent.

We create images through ideas, not through visual sensory input.

I paused here, wondering if I agreed.

When I write I let myself see/feel/hear/think/smell as if I'm right there, in whatever scene has arisen for me.

I try to stay away from ideas - as I write. This is not quite true, if I'm writing fiction I have one foot in an 'idea' camp, and another foot in the not knowing being right there camp.

It is my experience that the more we write from our own personal experience, thus having both feet in the being-right-there camp, the easier it is to write fiction which feels 'real'.

I'm off on a tangent - not directed at what you wrote.

I mostly wanted to stop by and say thank you.

~ Sandra

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://maletbon.gaia.com — Thu, 31 May 2007 16:58:16 GMT

Welcome to the gang, Lynn, a whole lot. That you took the time to read this entire thread shows how committed you are to the process of diving deeper into your art and your Self. I can guarantee you this is a wonderland of humanity. It's like a little magic crystal hidden in the wondrous depths of Zaadz.

We are really lucky to be here. At least me and you for sure I know of, since you just said it. I will let the others speak for themselves, which they do so masterfully/pupilfully.

Hang On!

Tom

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://LynnDee.gaia.com — Thu, 31 May 2007 15:36:07 GMT

pheeewww! I just read this thread and think a lot. I wouldn't dare possibly comment on all we have to say about commenting, but as it pertains to this post, I will use the suggestions we have to one another on commenting to do some of my own.

As inspiration I must start with responding to the last idea that resonnates on limited color and limited muse. It is ironic that when general masses consider art they picture pictures. We as writers even often do the same although we are blessed so by not being restrained by formation of visuals with limited resources. If there are only 70 colors and it is up to the artist to manipulate them uniquely, we are so blessed that we have an infinate resource of words and languages to utilize in expression. We create images through ideas, not through visual sensory input. How cool is that? Our muse is endless, we can use ALL our senses for inspiration.
On this idea of art and art, writing vs. visual, if you haven't before, check ou tHarry Noden's Brushstrokes tehcniques. It is somethign I use with students to explain how grammar can be a wonderful adn creative tool, it is NOT just rules and restrictions. Yes, I agree Loni that a perfectly placed semi-colon is well worth its wieght. =)

Next, I would like to share what I tell my studetns in regards to editing/peer review. I believe there is a genuine difference between proofreading and editing. Proofreading = surface level errors such as punctuation, spelling, etc.
Editing= commenting on content. I believe here in diving deeper we can edit but should refrain from proofreading. I agree with several comments above that when we comment we should avoid directly targeting the author in relation to the text. When studying historical classics we can not assume authors are speaking of thier own expeireinces or are sharing their own beleifs. We can however decipher that one's experiences adn knowledge influences the background views of their characters, but does not define them.
I do also agree that we should respond to others by sharing how their writing makes us think adn feel. What does it draw out in us? (thank you sandra) That is where the power is, the way the reader connects to a piece is essentially what defines its worth, no? When we critique we should give examples of what works for that piece, and ask for more of it, point out areas of confusion but do not define them as weaknesses.

Just a little thought from some of my experiences with writing and workshopping.

Also just wanted to say how blessed I feel to have found this pod!

Re: ON COMMENTING

http://synerjyz.gaia.com — Sun, 27 May 2007 21:42:24 GMT

I second the one Tom,

So for all the mighty musing
attracting more of itself &
unfolding the suprise in each delicious moment
Wei are here together
capturing the fireflys of what's next in every humble post,
I bow
in a deep reverent pause
for the sacred in our communion.
May the blessing grace of our experience together here
Draw an ever greater deepening
in our hai dives.

~Karen Lynn, The Wordicle