Gaia: DIVING DEEPER: A Writing Workshop - The Tree House - Seeds - the Trust System??? - and Zaadz to Gaia

Re: Seeds - the Trust System??? - and Zaadz to Gaia

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 21:31:46 GMT

Okay, anyone interested in the 'latest' on the Seed System:

first, there has been an update to the FAQ's on the system that is definitely worth reading. It outlines far more clearly what this whole thing is about.

And there is a new thread on the Think Tank pod that I feel is just wonderful, started by a new member of Zaadz called Zak - who, to my mind brings a really interesting and fresh energy to not only the specific discussion, but to the community itself. He talks about the garden metaphor - something I would love us all to consider - here is a tiny bit:

When seeds are spent, they are planted, for beautiful flowers and useful trees to grow, for beautiful ideas and useful deeds! And zaadsters don’t get “reputation” or “trust”, they get GARDENS out of the seeds!

(and my dear other half is doing his first thread post as I speak, it might not be up for a while.. but Yay!)

Love,
Sandra

Re: Seeds - the Trust System??? - Jake's Update

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 20:34:08 GMT

This was on the "Bring Back Bad Seeds" ThinkTank thread and since the thread is pretty long, I thought it useful to bring the following update from Jake here:

-------------------

1) Seeds themselves are not transferred between members. Instead, the seed returns to the Great Seed Packet in the Sky after being used to 'purchase' a certain amount of positive or negative feedback. The weight of any given member's feedback depends on a few factors, including feedback from other members on users and their content, length of active membership, and the member's reputation compared to the community as a whole.

2) We've heard suggestions that the reputation beacon not be publicly displayed - and I'm considering that seriously. The beacon does not, by the way, display an exact representation of reputation, but instead displays reputation as compared to the rest of the community.

I think it's unfortunate that most of our words for these concepts carry so much weighted value, because newer members will always start with an empty beacon, and in any community (online and offline), reputation is built over time. I personally don't look at a dim beacon and think 'can't trust this person'; rather I consider it a sign that the community is still getting to know this person.

I do agree that the beacon needs to 'brighten' more quickly if it stays public. Part of the issue is that the representation at the lower levels is almost invisible, which is a bad UI decision on my part. We are revisiting how to display that information along with whether to display the beacon publicly, only to the member whose reputation it displays, or to display it at all.

3) Because there is no limit to the actual numerical representation of one's reputation (and again - for those who criticize this as too simple, I do understand that reputation is not something that can be wholely stored and coldly calculated upon; if I had a more accurate word that described what we ARE trying to measure, I would use that) … Because there is no limit, the value of reputation actually DOES decay over time. We fully expect that most of the community will simply continue to grow their reputation; active, contributing members faster than those who visit only occasionally. Again - this is an attempt to model how people get to know others in real-world interaction and measure a small part of that.

4) I don't see negative feedback on users returning anytime soon. It really made no sense to add it in the first place, because it gives no real information about what a person did that spurred another user to give negative feedback; on the other hand, negative feedback (flag for review) on content gives much more specific information, and does eventually effect the reputation of the poster (albeit more slowly).

Positive feedback directly on members is really a way of expressing gratitude or appreciation, and that needs no explanation. But I think negative feedback deserves an explanation from the person giving it - constructive criticism. On content these reasons are usually more evident, but on users…

Finally, the idea of watering one's seeds is intriguing - but might be further confusing since the seeds aren't actually given to each other.. I think that's one of the biggest miscommunications about the whole system, and I'm still trying to figure out how to explain it clearly.

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Re: Seeds - the Trust System??? - and Zaadz to Gaia

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 15:34:44 GMT

Or how Hoo Hah seeds grew into a Hoo Hah tree.

Hah hah hah!
:-)
Sandra

Re: Seeds - the Trust System??? - and Zaadz to Gaia

http://sundovt.gaia.com — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 01:37:13 GMT

Or how Hoo Hah seeds grew into a Hoo Hah tree.

I'd rather not go into the reply from staff without first discussing it with that person first. "He/she said" can be problematic. To paraphrase the reply, seeds were harmless. I asked the question amid other concerns as well, and the staff member chose not to focus solely on seeds in their reply. My characterization of non-comittal probably stems from that.

My intent was not to reflect negatively in any way on the staff.

I hope to be an active member here in the zaadz community, but I suspect that I'll probably fit the "quieter member" profile. In the spring I will probably return to retreat, but will remain open to the possibilities because as we all know, life is what happens while we make plans.

Don't worry about using new age vernacular, cause I'm an old new hippie. (Or was that a *new* old hippie?) Or hippy and old....

Thanks for taking the time to answer, and for the links to wherever I have yet to explore.

shi wei hsi ming.

Re: Seeds - the Trust System??? - and Zaadz to Gaia

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Sat, 01 Dec 2007 22:02:50 GMT

Phil!
Well mostly a breath of thank you to you -- I have a feeling that many new members do not do what you have done, which sounds like wonderful community activity to me.

And -- I'm surprised by the non-committal reply re "not having any seeds"... care to share it? I've read a lot on all this inc. from the team (and have you read Jake's blog, it's worth it, he's the guy who programmed the thing - disenchanted and revisiting disenchanted) and my understanding is that nothing will happen if you don't have any seeds. Seeds are about 'movement', not stasis.

However, If you do nothing at all on zaadz, and I mean just make a profile and then never ever visit again or read anything, ie you walk in the door and walk straight out for ages, you might have to 'rejoin' at some point should you want to come back. I have heard of this happening once - way before the seed programme...

You get a seed everytime you create a blog, share a comment etc. You give away a seed when you 'seed' a blog or a comment, showing that you like the work etc. (and yes, I also quite like your random method, some others are doing that, but in the long run I don't know if it serves anyone or certainly doesn't let zaadz see if the system works according to how they hope it will). If you do a lot of commenting/blogging etc, you will gain a pile of seeds up to a certain ceiling. I do not know what this ceiling is.

If you keep giving them away, and contributing comments etc (and therefore getting seeds) you are, at least in zTeam terms, being an active member of the community, participating in what they hope will be a way for people to support content that is uplifting, enlightening, supportive ( which could of course also be a 'triggering' blog, something you 'don't like' -- if you are someone who chooses to take however you react to something as an 'opportunity' for self inquiry -- sorry for the dusty new age talk but it's late and I can't think of a way to restate these things in a fresh way)....

The hope is also that we as a community can support the perhaps quieter voices here -- many of us know a few zaadzters who are not so obviously 'active' and yet are truly gems and shining stars, and there are others who are very 'active' and vocal who are not. So, by using your seeds diligently, you can show your appreciation for those who you feel might not get that much attention otherwise.

As I mentioned, right now the What's Hot page has items that have a lot of 'activity' -- not necessarily 'quality'. The only way we can, as a community affect a change here, is by making an effort to show our appreciation via the seeds. And, of course, I still believe in commenting, -- the 'old' way of showing appreciation.... and my main concern with the seeds, here on DD and in general is that it can be a 'lazy' way to show appreciation. But, I'm willing to see what happens with these seeds...

Gosh. Who'd have thought I'd have so much to say about these damn things! It's like I've been, um, seeded....( I posted a picture of one of them in Hotel California #1. It might explain all the hoo hah)

Love,
Sandra

Re: Seeds - the Trust System??? - and Zaadz to Gaia

http://sundovt.gaia.com — Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:12:48 GMT

I'm new to this whole zaadz experience. About a year ago, I saw an advert for zaadz in a mag, and signed up. Not long after, I went into retreat (seclusion/hermitage/pick your own relevant term) and until a month ago not really participated much in what zaadz would deem a meaningful way. My first notice of the "seeds" program prompted me to give seeds to members in what I thought would be a random way, having no criteria for their award other than my having surfed them up. The one exception was a member whose favorite person was George Bush. As I am a lunatic lefty I thought it would be dharmic in some way, although I must confess to having my tongue in my cheek when I did it. It seemed a bit anti-climactic after, not having any seeds, but I forged ahead reading all I could read in blogs, under logs, in pods, etc. Those who were in favor of seeds almost unanimously qualified that blessing in some way. Many, many, more had nothing good to say about them. Then I read in staff pods, (siona's post?) (I forget who or where) about being folded into a tesseract, or nothingness or a paper hat, as a consequence of not having seeds to call my very own. Panic set in!! I briefly considered breathing into a paper bag, but queried staff instead. They sent me a non-comittal reply. I have put "Don't Worry-Be Happy on the CD player, and I'm keeping on keeping on. So Hi one and all, glad to be here in the now, and if someday you see a paper hat that looks like me.......

Re: Seeds - the Trust System???

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Sat, 01 Dec 2007 15:35:30 GMT

:-)))

Thanks dear Leia.. you are reminding me of what a dear man I know once said, (usually saying after something really deep and profound)

"And don't forget, don't take it all too seriously.."

Love,
Sandra

Re: Seeds - the Trust System???

http://yhd52754.gaia.com — Sat, 01 Dec 2007 13:44:43 GMT

Gabriele,

Thank you for pointing out where we overlap. I do not believe we are yet at the point of no return regarding the permanency of the seed system, although we may be close to that invisible line where there can be no turning back from it.

I, too, distribute my seeds in the same way that you do but once one has given any individual all 5 points they can give them no more. Unless you have thousands of friends or reach out to as many new faces and/or strangers here, you will eventually hit the boundary on that behavior.

I also give one seed to ANY blog I read but that requires I do 2 things at each blog - comment and seed - which slows down how many I can visit and I've never had a lot of time to visit blogs any way. Not able to do so consistently. I refuse to flag any as negative but one can never say never in this world.

Like you, I just don't run into really awful pages or posts. I have seen some contentious posts in pods but I believe at this time, pod posts are exempt from judgement. So, like you, it is hard for me to really see the NEED for this system in the first place.

I may have looked once or twice at a what's hot but, like you, it didn't resonate. My own inner guidance gets me where I need to be much better and therefore, I never look at that any more.

You are also appreciated, Gabriele, for your comments on my post.

Deborah

Re: Seeds - the Trust System???

http://luminary.gaia.com — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:59:48 GMT

All these seed talk
flying right by me
in the meantime
curiously       *
innocently                            *
I was placing thank you seed on your site Sandra *
one of those fluffy dandelion ones *
*            *
    *                    *
                                                *

Re: Seeds - the Trust System???

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:39:01 GMT

Deb, Mascha, Gabriele,

I'm having a feeling of deja vu here - in the sense that everything that has been brought up here has been discussed at length on the ThinkTank boards etc - which means that the concerns are still active, of course.

What I'm hearing mostly is an anxiety about being or not being 'at the top' or that dear friends who are quiet and don't post a lot will be at the 'bottom'.

What bottom? Where is it (!)? So they are quiet and don't post much. That's all that happens. Nothing else. They don't get 'rated' as being "poor" members of zaadz ,( by who, in any case? do you think the zaadz team are going to have a look at all the people who don't 'earn' many seeds and go, oh, we don't want that sort in here? Really?) If people don't have a lot of seeds, they don't get 'folded'. It all stays the same as it was before. They are quiet, loving members of the community. WE can support them coming to notice by 'seeding' them, however.

Personally I couldn't care less about this top bottom thing - but I AM interested in content - ie blogs, discussions etc that excite, interest, awe, enlighten me, make me think twice about my ideas/positions etc. I too tend to stick around here on Diving Deeper, for all sorts of reasons -- and yet when I poke about zaadz and find a blog or an interesting discussion, it's lovely ( and sometimes shocking, like walking out of a meditation room into the centre of New York).. Zaadz is huge, and I'm sure there are all kinds of things going on that I'm missing - but no matter to that.

For me the seeds are not about personal ranking or a capitalist mindset - but to that point zaadz made it quite clear they were highly focused on 'conscious capitalism' - if it is an issue for members then this is not the place to be. And of course what conscious capitalism actually means is something to look at ( being discussed here, for example, on the Gaia pod).

I knew this CC thing when I joined zaadz, I had a sort of 'negative' reaction to the term, but since, quite frankly I have virtually no understanding of economics I realised my negative reaction was not mine, but my mother's - who was an active communist/marxist and now is an armchair marxist full of contradictions ( ie complaining that my brother doesn't use his enormous skill base to 'make more money').

For me I sense the seeds can be about what I place value on --- yes totally subjective. Not saying this is 'right' or 'better'. I can use the seeds to say this is the kind of thing I want to see more of because it opens me, shows me something I did not know before, shines a light on my blind spots etc etc.

Of course this takes time and care to engage with the 'seeds' in such a fashion. I agree, it feels time consuming and I also agree, i personally prefer to write a note, a comment that expresses 'why' I like something. I would personally like the seeds to not be anonymous, but also to require us to say 'why' we seed the item.

Again, for me it's not about 'people' getting to the top, it's about content, behaviour, not about anyone's intrinsic 'value'. So if I see behaviour (not the person, the behaviour) I feel is off - sexist, racist etc, I can now "flag it" - and the Flag system requires me to think more than once because you can't just click it, there is a pop up window etc. And of course, probably only if several people flag something will it get any attention from the team - it's not an automatic 'folding' of content etc. If you want to see an example of how deep and wide zaadz is trying to be with this, have a look at what is lately happening on the ThinkTank thread, Moderating the Community.

And again, the main issue for me, is that zaadz is listening to our p.o.v. -- they have changed the name, and many of the functions of the seeds that were originally part of the system, because people spoke up.

Yes, the seeds are still here -- and I believe this is all right, because I think it's far too early to say whether they are appropriate here. It all, it seems to me, depends on us and how we use them and we need time to see how it unfolds.

If we had joined zaadz and the system was already here, I somehow doubt anyone would have made a sound. So many sites that I peruse and have fun on ( Stumble ) for example, use a similar system.

To quote our David here:

...The most important part - and this is MY feelings on the matter - is to recognize that we are all on the same side here. No one is out to ‘just make money’. And the angry voices aren’t angry because they are jerks. We all want what’s best but because of our different life-experiences, we have different ideas about what is going to be beneficial. If we can all recognize that- then it won’t matter what tools we are given anyway. We will all see that we are not the ‘right ones’, but rather voices within a whole. A temple of humanity.

Gabriele - some of them are HUGE. the Integral guys? they are often among the 'hottest' posts, aren't they? so how's that going to change? you have tons of members, all they have to do is put out their 'I liked it it!' seeds, and it's business as usual. I don't see much chance that my dear friends posts I enjoy so much ever 'make it' to the top, or that any of our writing gets so popular here we get offered seven-books-contracts… know what I mean?

Yes, it does seem this way. But actually our DD posts have often been more frequently on the what's hot list than I-I because of the algorithm of time and activity. We are very active here, and it gets noticed, because of activity - not because of quality of content.
Yes, 'quality of content' is a very different issue with 'creative writing', which is why, if and when the functions are implemented on Pods, I'd like to see us use the seeds to show our appreciation for the quality and depth of the commenting on the pieces. Or because someone's posted a really really useful site for writers, or for example that wonderful article on dealing with rejection.

Gabriele -
and the best is who gets the most votes…

I just don't see this. And if this IS what happens, then it goes against everything the team has said about the seeds, and then it seriously needs all our attention. And, to play devil's advocate, is this a 'bad' thing? Bush didn't get in because he got all the votes.

IF we ALL vote, then we can make a difference. Good lord I can't believe I'm saying this. I was in my 30's before I ever voted ( in Canada) and had to be repeatedly reminded who to vote for as I had not read anything about anyone or come to any personal view on the political situation there. I have always been very fuzzy around politics, because I had such a 'political' family, I reacted against all that - feeling that if I'm to make a difference, it starts with me. I still believe this, actually. I'm very 'political' in my close circles, I just felt that to go out and spout generalisations and beliefs about what is or is not right seemed to be hypocritical if things 'at home' were not being given the same attention.

As it has been discussed elsewhere, a lot of the seed issue seems to be based around how we perceive or think people will behave. If we think they will be fair and open minded and loving, then the seeds are not a problem. If we think they are going to be exclusive and 'loud' and over active just inorder to get 'noticed', then the seeds are a 'bad' system.

I sense I can only look at myself - what am I doing in this community to support it to be what I believe in, what I enjoy, what I sense can 'support' the world at large. If I start to worry about my 'status' and the amount of seeds I do or do not have, what am I supporting? A selfish world view. But if I take the time to not only 'seed' but comment on content that people create here, or how they interact in a discusssion, then I believe I can make a difference. We did it with the blinking ads, can we do it in a much larger way, ie, can we 'be' what we want here?

Love,
Sandra

Re: Seeds - the Trust System???

http://Mascha.gaia.com — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:49:12 GMT

I love your letters, Deborah. You save me so much time by writing what needs to be said in a clear and easy-going voice. Love it.

:)

Re: Seeds - the Trust System???

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:28:06 GMT

Sandra,

just read your reply to Burt, AFTER having written mine to Deborah's... let's see if I can influence you a bit! ;)

I've thought about what you say here for a moment:

Re the seeds: I was dismayed by some of the threads that get on the What's Hot list. If I was a newbie, and stumbled on some of these posts, I would never have joined zaadz. However I now see that if the 'seeds' work in the way the zTeam planned them to, what is on the What's Hot list will not be an algorithm of activity and time, but things people actually place value on, which is why, I'm sloooowly beginning to see the point of actually giving seeds out, and NOT randomly or just to 'my friends' but to content that really enlightens me or which I feel raises the bar in general here on zaadz.

The trouble I still see with the ranking system, the one that excists as much as the seeds that are supposed to be an improvement, is that the whole system is based on capitalistic set of mind. it's about more, more, more... expansion of the 'best'... and the best is who gets the most votes...

and how do you get votes? you win them, buy them, persuade them (well, considering our income I would consider being bought! ;)

but seriously. look at the pods, for example. some of them are HUGE. the Integral guys? they are often among the 'hottest' posts, aren't they? so how's that going to change? you have tons of members, all they have to do is put out their 'I liked it it!' seeds, and it's business as usual. I don't see much chance that my dear friends posts I enjoy so much ever 'make it' to the top, or that any of our writing gets so popular here we get offered seven-books-contracts... know what I mean?

I don't see the point in any rankind system. there will always be those who go for making it to the top, no matter how, and those who just do what they do in their smaller networks and never get that much attention from the rest. I don't see how this is going to 'change the world', and interestingly, the more 'changing the world' is thrown around here, I start developing allergic reactions to the whole idea. remember the 'bigger picture' thoughts? they keep coming back forcefully the last couple of weeks - what if what is happening is what is happening, and we have no idea at all what it means and what it's 'good' for?

a lot of what is discussed around here since the 'trust system, now known as seeds system' has made it's appearance seems more and more pointless to me. in a pleasant way, though, I'm not frustrated anymore. there's something relaxing in it actually. there is so much I have to take care of these days, zaadz is not on the top of my list right now! Diving Deeper is something entirely else. DD is my network. my friends are my tribe. I have a life out here I need to take care of. the good thing that happens around all of this is that I've straightened my priorities out. :) and I'm glad we haven't lost Burt in the process!!!

NOW I'll go and work on a story a bit for a change, since I can't seem to write anything fresh these days...

lots of love to all!
Gabriele

Re: Seeds - the Trust System???

Fri, 30 Nov 2007 09:02:44 GMT

Deborah,

wonderful reading your post here, I love what you say as much as the way you're saying it. very much connect to 'I either shine or fail - individually with each Zaadzster I come in contact with and it is a reciprocal event we participate in with one another.'

I have come to the point where I have accepted the seeds system as something that is not optional but a fact here (so far). I don't use the seeds system as a ranking of posts. what I do is what someone called 'random acts of kindness' - unfortunately forgot who it was - and put out BIG LOVE seeds on each profile page I visit and haven't 'seeded' yet...

that doesn't take much time and gets rid of the seeds I accumulate... other then that I do as I did before - I prefer personal comments on content, I tell people when I enjoyed their posts and move on when I land on a page that doesn't speak to me - I seem to belong to the lucky ones who hardly ever get to see REALLY awful pages or posts... so flagging has never been an issue for me here.

and when I look at the what's supposed to be 'hot' posts from time to time - oh well, I think I must be part of a minority here, I rarely find something there that really gets me excited. :)

with love and appreciation,
Gabriele

Re: Seeds - the Trust System???

http://yhd52754.gaia.com — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 04:41:54 GMT

Sandra,

As you know, I've posted all over Zaadz since the Seed program first came to my attention. My first reaction was not all that negative. Then, a couple of friends began to raise a red flag and I really began to read the various threads regarding it and to think about it - a lot. Consumed by it could be a better word. I wrote a blog about it.

I was deeply disturbed by the initial presentation that used the word Trust, and reputation score, bad seeds and the folding of content. Especially the folding of content, which is blatant censorship and the reasons for doing so were never totally clear or strong - potentially. As writers, I see from some of the posts here (and forgive me, I still have NOT read them all - but have jumped around a bit) that the love of freedom of speech does carry some weight here, perhaps more than in some other places around Zaadz. I realize the Team/Ownership has backed off a bit from the more contentious ideas that they rolled this out with.

My deepest concern is reserved for the attempt to channel the focus where the "seeds" are indicating it should go. My understanding is that it is a bit more complex than activity driven. Still, the best intellectual and spiritual growth comes from inner calling and not from being led by the herd or the powers that be. I may not always end up in the kindest or most civil place but still the direction, that comes from my soul, takes me to where I need to be, for the next piece of the puzzle or twist in the journey of my life. A computerized system can definitely not do this for me nor average it out for the group at large and truly accomplish the highest good for each.

That is why the Seed system fails with me. Oh, I try to be a good sport, for those who care about getting their Seeds and scatter them around as quickly as I accumulate them beyond my comfort zone but it leaves me with a hollow feeling, whenever I participate. I get no joy from it. I don't want to be signaled out, even as being especially trustworthy or just plain "worthy" and certainly not the opposite either. I don't want to be categorized at all. I either shine or fail - individually with each Zaadzster I come in contact with and it is a reciprocal event we participate in with one another.

I much prefer to write out how I feel and if I just need a quick little line - I like the Shout Out Wall for that quite a lot. I find the Seeds time consuming to distribute - just another reason I may never find time to write more often for pleasure, which would get me posting more here. And I've already seen a Blog game of Tag - oh, racking up the Seeds and I don't even know if that was the intention but . . .there you go, another failure.

I keep coming back and looking again and again at the Seed program. I read what the Team members say in explanation of it and something is missing about why they want to do this and what it does for them that might either reassure a great many of us or cause us to really run for the hills. No, I'm not an alarmist - I do keep an open mind and let the unfolding show me.

All the best,

Deborah

Re: Seeds - the Trust System???

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:22:47 GMT

!
Well.....dear Burt as you know I feel the same way about you. And, I'd actually like to hear what you don't like about what's going on here... I'm easily 'influenced' so I need some balance...
Love,
Sandra

Re: Seeds - the Trust System??? -UPDATE

Thu, 29 Nov 2007 20:47:23 GMT

Any community that counts Sandra Jensen as a member is a community I dearly want to be be part of. I'm stayin'.

Re: Seeds - the Trust System??? -UPDATE

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:36:08 GMT

Dearest Burt...
well I'm getting a slightly different 'feel' for what's going on here, and this doesn't mean my 'feel' is on. I've been looking into the Gaiam thing and I do think there is potential here. One of Gaia/m's aims is to try and support not only this virtual community,but also real-time local community ventures. I don't know much about this and it's also a long term vision, but I do see possibility here if only because I know what my brother's been doing in Africa with, of all things, the Gates Foundation.. ie help set up libraries in Botswana that are internet hooked up etc and finding ways to encourage people to use the library and the technology that is made available to them.

The only way I can see to support a shift away from the Me Me's is to do it myself. Hence I've volunteered for the 'task force' to see if we can organise a mediation/elder/wisdom council group to serve the needs of the community, for example. Now, this pushes my envelope quite a bit, and yes, I am also looking to see that it's in balance and doesn't take time away from other things which 'feed' me ( eg my writing), because if I'm not 'fed' then I can't do anything for anyone ( as per Maslow's Hierarchy of needs on my latest blog, mine are not so much to be fed but to write and be involved with music etc).

Re the seeds: I was dismayed by some of the threads that get on the What's Hot list. If I was a newbie, and stumbled on some of these posts, I would never have joined zaadz. However I now see that if the 'seeds' work in the way the zTeam planned them to, what is on the What's Hot list will not be an algorithm of activity and time, but things people actually place value on, which is why, I'm sloooowly beginning to see the point of actually giving seeds out, and NOT randomly or just to 'my friends' but to content that really enlightens me or which I feel raises the bar in general here on zaadz.

Does this make sense?

As you know, my physical state is such that I can't 'get out' as much as some people - therefore this virtual community is a godsend for me, as I am a big community person ( I never thought this was the case, I'm quite stand-offish and like my alone time a LOT), but if I take a look at what I 'do' as being an indicator of what I want/like to do: I'm always communicating, getting people together, forging networks etc. So, I'm still with zaadz, and at the same time I do miss the old days when it was small. But maybe I've just got to 'expand' so it doesn't feel so huge ....

More on this.. but you go first :-)

Love,
Sandra

Re: Seeds - the Trust System??? -UPDATE

Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:06:03 GMT

I've evolved in my feelings about seeds from mild annoyance to profound indifference. I wrote Siona about the subject and received a very (and typically) gracious reply. What gives me pause, however, is that for all the talk of community, community, community, I detect an ever-strengthening undercurrent of "It's all about Me." I'm mostly bored here anymore -- not by you, of course, but by what I see as a rising tide of New Age narcissism. I've met some absolutely wonderful people on Zaadz, some of whom I regard as true friends and several whom I can honestly say I love. Although I correspond with those I'm closest with via personal e-mail, I'll probably stick around just to maintain contact and hold open the possibility of meeting new and vital people. But I have to say honestly that I no longer feel much passion to be involved more deeply than that.

Reading over the remarks that have been left on this thread has been a bracing experience and reminds me anew why I like you all so very much.

Blessings, my dear friends,

Burt

Re: Seeds - the Trust System??? -UPDATE

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:35:49 GMT

fyi - for all who were interested or concerned about the seeds, there is an update on the zTeam blog here. I'll copy the bulk of the info here, just in case you'd rather not leave DD :-)

And again, I'm interested in any feedback about this and how we make this system work for Diving Deeper and us as a community in general...

Love,
Sandra

---------------

Here's a little update on the Seed System. We've made a few changes, based on all your feedback, and Jake's clarified a few things about how the system works.

First off, it's now impossible to give “negative feedback” to individuals. You can spread the love and show appreciation using the “Give Thanks!” box, but there's no way to poop on someone's profile.

Feedback is given through seeds, which you accumulate by posting or contributing or just being on the site. The more you participate, the more seeds you can spend, either through the “Give Thanks!” boxes or by highlighting posts that you think are deserving of appreciation or notice or by using those seeds to flag content (read on).

If you visit a discussion or blog, you'll see two new little buttons: an “I liked it!” (which helps to highlight contributions you appreciated) and a “Flag for review” (which is meant to mark posts that violate that the terms). Clicking either one 'costs' you a seed.

It's an intentionally abundant system, though—not a zero sum game—because you can always gain seeds just by being on the site. Also, it's not meant, at all, to be about who gathers the most seeds or whose posts get the most clicks. It's intended instead so that, as a community and a group, we can alert others to the many gems on the site, help organize the tremendous amounts of information and resources out there, and to ensure, in the process, that the community continues (collaboratively!) to embody the values we all agreed to.

An aside: some of you have already tried seeing how quickly you can give your seeds away, which is wonderful. (Though note that no one can see how many seeds you have but you… so the only person you'll be competing with is yourself. But maybe this is always the case…)

Again, we sincerely hope that this will be a means of spreading positivity, as well as helping to keep the site a safe and welcoming place. It's easy to spend seeds on appreciative feedback, easy to encourage the contribution and discovery of posts that resonante, and easy to shower others with appreciation. And, of course, you now have the power to moderate contributions that you feel aren't in alignment with the values of the site.

Like everything else, it's a work in progress. So go spread some seeds (if you want to, of course), and let us know what's working and what isn't. We'll keep listening.

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Re: Seeds - the trust system.... and now zaadz to Gaia.

http://sandrajensen.gaia.com — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:24:05 GMT

I'm posting this on this thread since I feel it's relevant..

Most of us here I think, maybe I'm wrong, have let go of the seed issue somewhat? It doesn't seem to be affecting us on Diving Deeper yet. And still there is a lot of discussion on the system and the fall-out. I've been commenting a fair bit on Meenakshi's thread Moderating the Community: Questions and Suggestions.

Personally I find it a fascinating thread as it seems to be a blueprint / weather vane of sorts of all the voices here on zaadz.

Here on zaadz - so this is where I'm leading ... the issue of zaadz's transformation from zaadz into Gaia. As I'm sure many of you know, Zaadz was bought by Gaiam a while back, you've probably also seen the new Gaia beta site, which came out of this new partnership.

I for one was at first bothered by zaadz being bought: for much the same reasons as I was bothered by the seeds: it felt like a change and I don't like changes, and it also felt like perhaps this community of zaadz was going to no longer be how I experienced it: a village of people, sharing, growing, doing what they could to support others here and everywhere.

And of course I knew nothing about Gaiam, or how in fact zaadz might be affected by this change. And when the actual functionality of zaadz didn't seem to change in any obvious Gaia-flavoured way, I forgot about it.

BUT.

Given the fall-out from the seeds issue, I've decided it behooves me ( and everyone?) to take a look at this transformation, and to see if we can actually participate in it rather than sit back and let it happen and then complain that it didn't happen the way we like it.

There is a Gaia pod, created by the zTeam. I've just joined it. Yes I know, the very last thing you want is another pod to join, but I feel it's important to at least read the description by Siona. I'll copy it here below.

And, especially those of you who were bothered by the Trust Issue, I'd suggest joining the pod so you can ask questions and express concerns. The more input the Zaadz team hears, the more able they'll be to manage the transformation in a manner that benefits us all.

Love,
Sandra

Gaia Pod description:

Welcome to the Gaia Pod!

So. We're a part of Gaiam now, and we're looking forward (eagerly!) to our role in shaping the Gaia Community.

This pod is meant to answer two questions:

1. What is the Gaia community?

Imagine a global community of communities, made up of like-minded people inspiring and empowering each other to create for positive change on the planet. Imagine a network of such organizations and communties and businesses, growing from the Zaadz social networking site and eventually extending worldwide.

We're all part of this transformation. We have a tremendous opportunity to be the living heart and soul of this emerging future. We're all a part of it.

So what's your vision? What's your ideal? What does Gaia mean to you?

2. What does this mean for Zaadz?

There's been a sweet note of concern in the community about what will happen as a result of this sale. The short answer?

Nothing. :)

Gaiam, our parent company, is committed to preserving this space, and to ensuring that our brillaint community remains the safe and vibrant and passionate space it's always been. If anything, they want to help nurture this community further and to support us in providing all of you with the tools and resources you need to connect and grow and share.

Again, it's wonderful to feel in such alignment.

Because the long answer? Well, everything. We've got a world to change, and we're committed to being that change, and, wonderfully, this involves the ongoing growth and transformation of the site.

Still, we on the team completely understand any concerns the community might have. So, if you'd like to voice your feelings, please, please take the opportunity to do so. We'll be listening. And if you're new, well, we'd love to hear from you as well. So welcome!

Now let's change the world. :)
Siona
and the Zaadz Team .