Dialogue Chapter 1 ( the company is formed)

 This is the opening part of a longer piece I have been working on for a while:

“Why do I put up with him?  Did I tell you about the toilet last week?” Kate began her saga after a good swig of her cocktail.

“Ben?  Would you PLEASE take a look at the toilet in the second bathroom?  I asked you last weekend and it is still leaking.”

“In a minute”

“No, not in a minute! Now! Please?!  It is costing us money to have it leaking not to mention the constant mess of water on the floor.  Someone is going to slip, fall and break their neck. Please?”

“Fine! Fine! As soon as they get to a commercial I will go in and fix it.”

“He is so aggravating!  I ended up calling the plumber and shelling out $85.00 to have the thingy at the bottom of the toilet sealed.  He didn't have to call a hooker for a quickie Saturday night after the HBO movie was over.  I hate men.”

 The two women sitting across the table nodded in understanding.

“I know how you feel Kate.  I can't get Will to feed, change or otherwise take care of   Hannah.  I have had to hire a babysitter while I go shopping because his golf game can't be postponed until the afternoon.  Then in the afternoon NASCAR is on and he can't miss his racing.  He said with a babysitter we both get to have our personal time without infringing on the other and he was certainly not begrudging the expense.  Isn't that what the money is for?” Stephanie sighed, “I find it interesting he thinks my grocery shopping is personal time.” 

“I feel almost embarrassed to complain about my Jim,” Beth said with a small smile.  “He helps around the house like a whirlwind.  I bet he would even go to your houses and take care of your fix up projects with gladness.  He loves all that kind of stuff.” Her shoulders slump with resignation as she continued,  “My problem is romance.  Do you know what he got me for our anniversary this last week and it was our 10^th?  He got me a shop-vac!  I kid you not!  He thought it was special since it was a 10-gallon tank.  What am I going to do with him?”

“Ooohhhh Beth! That is the worst,” Stephanie and Kate both moaned in support.

“Can't live with ‘em, can't kill ‘em and divorce is messy,” Steph said as she took a long sip on her Cosmopolitan.

The three of them had been friends since college.  Beth, Stephanie and Kate had been supporting each other through the ups and downs of the men in our lives or the lack there of for nearly 20 years. They became sisters and best friends forever.

Kate is the loud one in the group.  She was head cheerleader in high school and college.  She wasn't cheerleader cute by any stretch of the imagination.  Kate was 5'8”, whiskey colored hair, broad shoulders and brown eyes.  Nothing was in and of itself spectacular on her but the whole package was magnetic.  She was outgoing, outspoken and outrageous.  She had a very earthy nature and she never had a thought she didn't want to express. Kate was married to a he-man kind of lump that had never seen a sport he didn't like.

 When they first met in college he was on the football team of course and her sorority was the sister house to his fraternity.  Ben was so strong and handsome it hid his lumpiness. He used his major in business to become an executive foreman in the Chrysler plant in Fenton. She used her major in communications to become a producer at a local radio station; The Midday Report.  They have twin sons who are the pride and joy of his father because they both play sports which gives dad the opportunity to watch a live event.

Stephanie is a stay at home mom. She majored in Home Economics in college and she applied that knowledge like a corporate CEO to making her home the most efficient, loving haven for her and Will.  When she got pregnant she created a help desk program on the home computer where she logged all pertinent events during the pregnancy and then recorded growth and wellness stats on the baby as she grew. She is slender and slight.  She keeps her dark curly hair short and her eyes are a startling gray that get lighter or darker with her mood.  Stay away if those eyes are flat like concrete because she is dangerous then.  The only clog in her works is her husband.  Stephanie married a lawyer.   It is all about him.

Beth is the in between girl.  She is 5'6” not Kate's 5'8”but not Stephanie's 5'4”.  She has strawberry blond hair that she keeps back in a long braid down her back.  Her blues eyes always seem a little dreamy.  Her freckled, fair complexion immediately declares her Irish ancestry. She is the romantic of the group.  She has wanted to be held in “esteem” or have a “beau.”  There wasn't a tearjerker she hadn't seen or a romance novel she hadn't read. It is not surprising that Beth's major was romantic literature.  She then went onto grad school and got her Masters in Education.  She now teaches English Lit at Lafayette High School.  Beth's husband works at the same plant Kate's husband does.  He works on the fabricating line.  He is very mechanically inclined and a very sweet guy. They have no children, mainly because he has no sex drive.  When Beth fell in love with him she said it was because she felt so taken care of and safe.  She didn't realize that would eventually transition into pleasant boredom.

The 3 of them get together every 2nd and 4^th Thursday of the month to share, commiserate and otherwise have a girls' night out.  This topic of their men was a long and ongoing subject all wondering what it would be like to have the perfect man.  Was there even such a thing as the perfect man?

“I personally think they don't get much more perfect than Harrison Ford,” is Stephanie's regular contribution to the question.  Beth and Kate both tell her it is all surface.  Kate scoffs, “Have you ever seen that man in an interview?  I saw him on Larry King Live last month.  He was promoting a new movie and Larry earned his money trying to get that guy to talk.  If he won't talk to Larry King then he sure as hell isn't talking to his significant other.”

Stephanie isn't impressed with Beth's choice either.  “Dr. Phil is bald and overbearing.  I for one just don't get him.”

 “Yeah, but he's tall and I like his smile.  He always knows what to do next,” Beth reasons. 

“But is he good in bed?”  Kate asks.  “I gotta tell you I can't even deal with the mental picture of that one.”

Oh and what about your idea, huh Kate?  You would keep a bevy of men for your needs.  You like Vigo because he would look pretty in bed, Harrison Ford because you heard he was a good carpenter before he was an actor and the plumber from the Potty Professor because he's handy,” Stephanie chortled.

Re: Dialogue Chapter 1 ( the company is formed)

oh yes Mame I want to hear more please.

I'm hoping you're going to really surprise me with the plot.

 Initially when I read it a few days ago, my response was that I wanted to give each of these woman a kick in the pants and tell them to get reponsible for their choices instead of just complaining and that's why I didn't comment at first – I know there's more in it, and so left it a few days and have read it a few times now.

Your description of each of these women is terrific … wonderful writing. The dynamic between them is really interesting and there is definitely a hierarchy between them that adds another dimension. Loved all the dialogue too, but for some reason it took me a while to get into this story and I can't put my finger on it … off the top of my head, now that I'm commenting, I think it's because I don't care about any of these women … does that make sense?

I know of course that it's just a beginning, and an idea that you're working on, but I think that perhaps you've rushed your work here to get to the last paragraph and expose the idea of what's to come. I want to feel something for these women and the situation they find themselves in … why have they made these choices in their lives? Why can't they do something as simple as fix a toilet? …  and why does that exasperate them? … ok I know, stretching it a little, but you know what I mean I  hope.

Email me if you want more clarification. This is good work, and a great idea is behind it – that's obvious to me … I want you to slow down though and tell me more about these women … they're great characters … it's something that Sandra tell me all the time … slow down and get into detail more.

Don't be discouraged because this is fine work and a great idea.

Jim x

Re: Dialogue Chapter 1 ( the company is formed)

Thanks so much for the comments Jim! 

This is an idea I have been kicking around for a while.  I have actually contemplated it as a comedy routine, play or novel.  I understand your comments of not connecting to the ladies.  I think since I haven't settled on what to do with them that is what you are picking up on. hhmmm….  I tried using their backgorund first before the dialogue to give you who they are but I really like the image of the sitting around kavetching about their spoues. That pulled me into them.  I have had these conversations myself.  I have written more to this story but I submitted this portions for the assignment of dialogue.  As I looked it over again I see what you mean by rushing the plot.  I could slow down a little bit and give more substance which would give you, the reader, more investment to find out what they do about their gripes.  Right now as I am writing this response I have gotten some inspiration for greater depth, maybe.  Your comment:
 “Why can't they do something as simple as fix a toilet? …  and why does that exasperate them? … ok I know, stretching it a little, but you know what I mean I  hope.”

 I wonder that too, really.  These are intelligent, college educated, resourceful women why can't they handle this themselves.  My first response to that answer is they could but then what the heck do they have husbands for? As liberated as most women of my age, 40-50's there are still a lot of old traditional attitudes lurking in the background from our parents.
I bet the men don't sit around complaining that they didn't get dinner or their underwear washed.  Their wives just do it.  There in lies the conflict, for me anyway.  I know it is an old argument but one I think is still valid.  There definitely seems to be a theme in my writings and posts on the site.  Love my husband and sons to death but dang!  They can annoy the crap out of me…LOLOLOL  I know that I irritate them too.  I find it fascinating in long term relationships what people learn to live with and still love each other. 
This is what I want to ultimately communicate through the conflict of this story I think.
I have to go now because I need to write!
Have I said it this week?!
I love this pod!
:)
Mame

Re: Dialogue Chapter 1 ( the company is formed)

Also wanted to add that there are terrific moments here where you go right into dialogue from the third person and that's of great interest to me … find that very difficult to do … in fact, I find the third person stuff really hard to write and you seem to do it so easily Mame.

Jim x

Re: Dialogue Chapter 1 ( the company is formed)

Hi Mame,

I sort of had the same reaction that Jim did but after reading his comments went back and re-read. There really is a lot of wonderful writing here.  I think what may have threw me off was too much “telling” (the short paragraphs telling about each woman).  Once you flesh this out, dive into specific scenes, I think it will help the reader to care about your characters.  Lots of great material here for you to work with. 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you might want to be careful about making sure the reader reasonates and cares for a character before you go into the hen party scene (I understand that you were doing the dialogue assignment so it makes sense that you started here with this excerpt) because, whereas many have sat at a kitchen table and participated in such a manner, how many want to admit to that?  Even to ourselves?  I didn't.  Does that make sense?  Of course, that could just be me.

I like your whole idea and am impressed (and envious) that you actually know where you are going ~ I don't think I ever know where it is that I am going when I write!  It has the promise of being funny and heart warming and I hope that you will keep at it and keep sharing with us as your work progresses.

XO Ayla

Re: Dialogue Chapter 1 ( the company is formed)

Wanting strongly to comment on this piece, Mame, but time is running out…have to pack for tomorrow. So I'm asking you Jim, could you remind me when I get back in a week, ok? thanks!
Lots of great stuff here and I don't want to just be cursory about it.
Love,
Sandra

Re: Dialogue Chapter 1 ( the company is formed)

Mame,

I loved it. it became clear to me very soon it's a rough first version so I'm mainly focussing on what worked for me. first versions have tons of stuff we take out later, replace or rewrite.

so. I LOVE the dialog in the beginning! I found it so real and alive and very funny. there was a sense of rushed writing to it that felt quite familiar - projecting my own experience of speed and seeing too many pictures for being able to type them all in - but that is nothing that can't be fixed later.

I love that the woman are not 'perfect' from the beginning on - if they where, what would they have to develop? there needs to be tension and new things to learn and tragedy or comedy and possibilities for growth and learning things the hard way or whatever it is that your story is about.

I think it's like ayla said, wonderful material, a rich treasure chest and more where it came from to get into these characters and make us care for them and their lives and turns it takes.

I loved the descriptions of the women and of the men, it's a bit like archetypes of modern marriage. very funny vocabulary (and partly  difficult for a German - what on earth is  'a shop-vac'? I understand it's something very practical you certainly wouldn't want to get for your marriage anniversery, so I know enough to get the main idea! ;)

you are great in the dialog department, Mame, the one between the girlfriends as much as between the couple in the beginning. comedy material at it's best.

the main thing I see is keep going and, if you don't know yet, find out what your story is 'about' - what is the bigger sense behind it - do these women learn something about themselves, or their lives, or love, or their men? when it's not there yet never mind. our intuition knows long before we do where we're heading and one day it will become clear and structure the story from inside.

the only way to learn how to do it is to do it. keep going mame, it's wonderful material and I can imagine it must have been tons of fun writing it (hope so!). I was getting confused in the end where I wasn't getting fully what the dialog was about anymore, there seem to have been some gaps. but never mind. it's a far way to go until the editing starts. just keep going, mame, I'm very curious how it's going to go on (the company? are they actually thinking of…?)

continuation please!

with love,
Gabriele

Re: Dialogue Chapter 1 ( the company is formed)

had to come back once more and add a little something that came to me when I started hanging the laundry… (!)

story writing is not at all about creating perfect people. they don't need to be good, they don't need to better themselves in the course of the story, they might become even worse then they were when the story started!

what if the girlfriends become horrible, irresponsible, nagging bitches? that doesn't neccessarily make it bad writing, does it? actually I'd love to see that happen. :)

you can always let them see the light if that's not where you want them to end. (I'm just kidding, no serious suggestions. I'm just playing with ideas and sharing my thoughts. if I want a story about nagging bitches, I can always write one myself! ;)

the only thing that is bbound to get boring and put your readers off is when stagnation goes on forever. we want movement, change, action, the story resolving into something - but it might as well resolve into a tragic outcome as into everybody living happily ever after.

personally, I'm fascinated by broken characters. the evil in the good and the other way round. lots of fun things to play with!

Re: Dialogue Chapter 1 ( the company is formed)

Oh my gosh guys!  Thank you so much for the input.  I have been away to Missouri for the last 10 days so I haven't seen all the comments until tonight.  A five year old computer and dial up connection is not conducive to posting!  LOLOL   

I pretty much agree with all the comments. I worry about how do I fill in the background without sacrificing movement?  I definitely feel the descriptions interupt the story but how do I fill in the reader without stopping and telling?
I love these ladies.  I know them in my own life and we have had similar conversations over cocktails.  I am so glad I posted this segment of the story.  You have all given me so much food for thought.  I will definitely post more as I work through some of the ideas.  I am torn between a traditional romance path with this story or more of a Satire on the state of marriage in this country.  I think the hardest part of writing a  long piece, for me is keeping the focus.  I am such a tangent kind of girl. 
Thanks guys, I can't wait to see what these ladies end up creating!
:)
Mame

Re: Dialogue Chapter 1 ( the company is formed)

Mame –

 I worry about how do I fill in the background without sacrificing movement?  I definitely feel the descriptions interupt the story but how do I fill in the reader without stopping and telling?
I love these ladies.  I know them in my own life and we have had similar conversations over cocktails.

It's a very good question… for me the only way that works is to stick to the Diving Deeper principles - to climb right into the scene and keep going, willing to not know what is going to happen. Maybe I have an event I'm heading for, or an 'ending', but I hold it lightly. “Background' falls into place without me having to think about it, and I can always put it in later. More important is to get the raw material down, the action, the scenes.

My sense is that 'what this story is about' is perhaps not yet completely clear - it is as if something underneath is wanting to come out - *you* have an idea what the story is about, but it could quite possibly be something else….and my sense is that all it needs is for you to keep entering into it, at various points, whatever 'comes up' when you sit down to write. Let your wonderful characters speak and act – they will do so for you, all you need is to watch and write.

Don't worry about keeping a linear time, just write what comes up. You may strike a note that just keeps going, in fact you are bound to. In which case, usually how much 'background' description to use will just come naturally. Right now, I'd say the less background the better, you can always change things later. As I said, what you want is 'raw material', the juice of the story, which is the action/movement, the interactions, what people do and say. This is the hard part to write. It's very easy to go back and fill in some unclear parts with background or another scene which 'shows'.

I often find the when I dip into generalizations or summarizations, I become distant from the story and the characters. However, it *is* important that I get to know my characters….. better than they know themselves. So if you find yourself writing 'about' them (i.e. in general terms, not in a specific scene) that's fine, but you may not need these pieces later. You could put such pieces somewhere else, in a kind of 'research' pile.

So, I'd suggest you keep writing scenes, and don't worry about the story or the background yet.

The more you let yourself write scenes, the more you will 'show' and the less description will be needed – So, for example,

Kate is the loud one in the group.

You know this, and we as reader will know it too, simply by the dialogue - the words Kate chooses to say, the responses of the others to her.  Climb into scenes, as if you were there, and write down what you see/feel/hear. The more you write actual scenes the more you will feel in the flow of the story, and the story will 'write itself'.

If you are choosing to write fiction, or creative non-fiction (ie inspired from memoir), the most important thing is to be willing to let go of what you know.

 It's possible you wanting to show us these wonderful women, who they are, and how they are, because you know them so well, is getting in the way of the story. They are fabulous characters and I can feel the huge possibility here, but it will be much easier if you don't try too hard to stick to 'truth'. I have discovered that the deeper I climb into a scene - one that is 'from my own life' - the more I 'make things up', and curiously, the stronger and more powerful the scene.

Sometimes we have stories and people in our lives that are 'larger than life', that seem to make for such ripe fiction. Curiously, I've found these stories the hardest to render into fiction. I'm attached to them being 'as they were'. If I was writing autobiography that would be one thing, but I'm not. I suspect it gets easier to use such material creatively, and it certainly gets easier the further into the past the 'real life' experience is (the longer ago the situation happened the less less attached to telling the 'truth', less attached to my readers seeing/feeling as I did;  I have have 'processed' what happened).

Another thing that I'm learning, is that it's quite a good idea to have in mind a 'length' of the work as I am writing it. This is something I'd only suggest to someone who has done a lot of writing 'what comes up' ie. without regard to outcome or content, simply getting used to the daily practice of writing, of facing the blank page.

If you have a lot of writing under your belt, then it might be time to ask yourself as you write: Is it a short story? A “long short story”? A novella? A novel? Most short stories are up to about 5000 words. I can't seem to write anything less than 3000, my hat is off to anyone who can. My “Photographing Nell” is 9000 or so, stretching it a bit. Novellas are up to about 40,000 words, Novels 80,000 and more. These are of course generalizations, but if you plan to write a short story, the approach is very different to a novel. A short story must more or less have only what is absolutely necessary in terms of characters and details. Novels allow for much longer meanderings.

I hope this isn't too much information, please ask questions! It's just great that you have this rich material, and that you are working on a longer piece. Very exciting!

Love,
Sandra