On what basis do people believe in anything?

Is there a common basis for all beliefs?

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

Yes -of course there is -the inherrent ancient memory that
is the core of the very essense of our species.
The “knowing” if you will -not matter which way it is translated.

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

– “Differences between scientists and religious people:
Scientist:    Why does…? Why…? Why do you….?
Believer:     Why doesn't…? Why not…? Why don't you….?”–

So the difference? Scientists don't answer all questions in life, Scientist cannot explain everything, and scientist might never be able to give you a conclusive answer.

But scientist do look for that one reason why, and that one reason how.
As while religious people more often seek to answer all the reasons why not, or why some answers seem so great (while they aren't answers at all)

Belief answers our lives questions. But makes us weary aswell.
Science answers little questions, but holds our calm, for we have an actual answer we can touch.

So why do people believe?
Because people hate uncertainties, people hate it not to be in control, and weirdly enough, they join faith, to be in control of their minds questions. While in exchange they hand out their minds self dependence into answers who claim to be true, by claiming others are wrong.
That is the weariness.

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

But in the end …Scientists are only humans.
And we do have several examples of that.
Like we often hear about scientists challenging the church's ideas then…and how much it was opposed.
But strange enough some scientists did have a tough time convincing their own colleagues about it. Because their was a predominant THEORY which was so worked upon and taken up as good as a FACT, that anything that opposed it could not be accepted.
Think of Arrhenius when he said that electrolytes had ions.Which was not even considered because everybody was so sure that atoms are indivisible.
Or the Doppler effect becuase it was not in accordance with the Luminiferous ether theory at that point.
And these weren't the only ones.

Perhaps it is convinience or some comfort that makes people want to believe them despite who they are.
Scientists don't do it as often, but I can't say never.

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

Who are “scientists”? I only know this scientist and that scientist. When I read in my newspaper “scientists say” I quickly lose interest. This is a science story set in the present and limited to one scientific view. Of course there are other scientific views, it was a different science view yesterday, and a new one tomorrow. We are inclined to believe in science because it has given us extaordinary new powers but we are inclined to believe in religion because it addresses the issues of whether those powers are used for good or evil.
 For myself, I am neither impressed with the powers granted to an ignorant world by science, nor by the failure of religions to address the moral question of which new things should we do from the ever expanding list of things we can do. But then I am not a scientist or a disciple.

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

Scientist are people who follow the scientific method. Basicly they hypothesise (theorize) than make it easy to be found wrong. And proof it.
The reasons why those theories are accepted in the end, is because they are correct visions (the first thinker found decent and better proof then the rest) As it is really a way to proof what the real and true laws are. The reason that most thinks work, is because they create a cascade effect. They are required to understand different aspects of science. Hence String theory is for instance bogus.
Science doesn't actually strive to believed by as many people as possible, but to discribe nature in the most simple and effecient way. Sometimes a scientist only looks at this effeciency and simplistic nature (a catch from being human) and forgets to look critical at the proof that lies ahead of the theory, or the lack of it. Hence some great mathematical theories who explain a lot today, are used, but have no value in future because they have no predicting aspect.

Personally I am a scientist, a theoretical physicist. I think it is bullshit to believe anything that cannot be proved, or hasn't been proved so far. And I think you shouldn't believe in science. It wouldn't make sense. Science is there to let you understand the world around you.

Here, lets compare science to the bible.
Say there is a scientist;
Call him Mozes. Then he shows that when he makes a stick out of a snake, and holds it up into the air, water will be pushed away from it in a straight line. If this is indeed a scientific thing. He first will have hypothesised that the stick would do so. And how and why it would do so. Based on theories, and experiences he himself and other scientist have seen with their own eyes before. Then he must prove it. And then it should be that any stick made out of snake, should do the same, at any time, at any place and anywhere in the universe.
That is what science does. And what it provides you to find it out for yourself.

The science world, isn't an ignorant one, it just say it knows anything untill they can show you that it really is that way. And to anyone at any time. Even to a machine. Nothing is wrong, or wright until proven otherswize.
Personally I see that as a very tolerant vision of the world. with no assumptions that are unfair.

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

I see at least one science article in the newspaper everday and I haven't found anything big except when they created sperms from a female embryo.
I find better things with lots of views(think of the number of theories they have for one thing and how people reacted to that) in science books or even the internet(but requires tough searching if you don't know what you're looking for).

But the question still stays.
Why do people believe in something?

Some people won't believe even with proofs.
Like Galileo had such a hard time getting other scientists to see through his telescope because they thought he was lying and that even if they would see what he said, he would be either hypnotising them or doing some sort of a magic.

But just not taking science to one side, as complete picture…a common basis for belief?

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

Belief…

Belief is something human, beyond doubt, no humans, no faith.
Belief is means of hope.
Belief is means for comfort, even when we do not comprehend.

Belief brings hope and comfort.
Things people crave for.

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

You ask on what basis do believe in anything -
but then you say
ask why some people believe even without proof?


so it's sort of like you are saying why do some people
believe differently to me?(yourself)

But the basis people believe in anything faith -
faith in the truth of whatever belief they have been raised in.

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

Haha.No actually, we were speaking of scientists and proofs.
And people do believe without a proof for sure(I believe in some things without a proof myself), but some refuse to believe even with a nice proof.So a proof is not a common basis for belief.That is the point.

I have a pretty religious family and religious friends too.But it turns out that I'm the only one who is not religious out of all the people that I know(not virtually).Inspite of what I've been hearing for years.And not just keeping it to religion, it goes for a lot of other beliefs too.

So it isn't upbringing.
It isn't proof.

But I've been thinking that hope and comfort might just be it.

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

hope , absolutely -
to comfort -well for the needy ,yes.
And it can't be religion because there are
too many versions between out cultures.
Fear can be a big factor amongst the weak also -don't forget!

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

fear,
Yes well said.
I agree, I might even add that fear can be reasoned the only reason for extreme-belief, but only extreme, where we refute things of knowledge we had before, but had to drop for belief.

And about belief Lover,
look, people belief, because they don't have the proof of either confirmation or falification.
When people refuse to see proof, they are think their belief helps them so, losing it will cost more then gaining it from a perhaps more truthfull story.
I can tell you it is not, but one will never see that when in doubt.

they do not not-understand the proof. Nor do they think it is inconclusive. people need to protect them with their own beliefs. And everyone beliefs.

I for instance belief the world will not be destroyed by a meteorite tomorrow.
I have no proof that it would, nor won't. But I can assure life is much better with the choice that it won't.
And basicly, our choices of what to believe in life, make our life the way it is now. we are shaped by the beliefs we choose to carry.

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

So it's more like self-defence when it people refuse to see the proof, I guess.Like protecting their belief perhaps.

I must mention now that I don't want to criticize someone's ways of belief, their actions based on that ,the effects of it or think little of them for their ways of belief. Because I can't predict the ultimate effect accurately. Besides, everyone's free to choose their belief. Or atleast, that is what I believe.

But leaving that aside, now that you mention fear..
I think of fear as such a funny thing.It's like people believe the opposite of what they fear.And then some also believe something they fear (ghosts for example).
And yes, at times, fear does result in a belief.

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

I have a belief in mathematics. And many mathematicians can see a new mathematical solution before they are able to prove it.
I had a belief that I would be able to define all the useful rhythms, and I am achieving my goal. When the factors concerning a belief are all controllable, then the belief is more grounded in reality. I understand that the chances of a planetary collision happening are real, but tiny, and I can do little to alter them so I ignore them. The chances of me being hit as I cross the road are small, but under my control, so I take care.
For me the problem with these kinds of belief start when I can't calculate the approximate risk.

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

I think it is good that you believe in math. It results in logical answers only until the most extreme forms of reasoning (where QM kicks in)
However, my girlfriend is a Mathematician, and 8 of the people I work with closely are mathematician. The most notable thing is that mathematician really can't do anything practical. They reason in the mathematical world, not the physical world. The mathematical world is much more perfect than the physical world.
It then only makes it more suprising, that in the mathematical world it is already been proven, that no matter what Axioms you make in the beginning, there will always be contradictions.
The question remains what we do with that. Do we believe, or do we just leave the contradicition for what it is, and reason a mutual existence. (Physics)
Some contradictions turn out to be turningpoints in history, even when there isn't a solution. ;)

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

First of all, there are no hard facts in science. Everything is a theory that is accepted. Even measurements are off because they use objects they have chosen to determine how much a kilogram is, how long a meter is, etc. Even the Big Bang theory, so often used to disprove creation, was created to prove that the universe had a definite beginning. Before that it was thought that the universe had always existed and always would.

What it all comes down to is faith. Religion is a set of rules. Faith is a way of life. I have faith that the Bible is 100% true, even if I can't prove it. I have faith that God loved humans so much that He sent His Only Son to die for us, in order for us to be redeemed and have the choice to spend eternity with Him. I have faith that Jesus died and rose again, and that He is coming back. I have faith that when the Lord flooded the earth, it wasn't because he hated humans, it was because He was giving us another chance. Everything comes to faith. Scientists have faith in their theories. Atheists, although claiming not to have faith in anything, have faith in themselves. I was once told of a man who, when asked what he had faith in, said that he only had faith in his own abilities. Then he was asked if his abilities ever failed him, and he said yes. Then he was asked if God's powers had ever failed, and the man was silent.

Another way to put it is this: When I am asked how I know God is real, when we can't see Him, I reply with “How do you know which way the wind blows? By what it moves.” Faith is believing in what you can't see and can't give any measurable proof

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

There is a problem with religeous faith which I have yet to see addressed properly.That is the problem of differing beliefs. A believer may believe that the world is carried on the back of a giant invisible bogie creature. Why should I treat his belief as lesser than yours?
 I am no big fan of scientific belief, but it is testable. If one scientist thinks blood cells are red and another scientist insists they are white then one day someone may invent a microscope, and Presto! science changes and moves forward. Chistians who believe the bible to be a scource of truth will never accomodate the truths of the bogie creature.
 I do have a partial solution to this problem. Here at Ho Ho Chi Heaven we are developing a Meta-Religion where sacred practice is encouraged whilst dogmatic opposition to other peoples beliefs is not. Creativity is my guide  to belief. This is not a plug, send no money, go and start your own religion. (affiliates welcome).

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

The difference between the facts of science and the bible is. That anybody can confirm the 'facts of science himself'. One can for instance shoot a ball, with a certain given speed, and a certain drag coefficient. And calculate exactly where it will appear. Or worse, make predictions about any random system, and see them come true a while later.
I personally have had a lot of trouble trying to make the sea make way before my feet. useing a snake stick. I have been more succesfull with the fire rain though…

If you choose that it comes down to faith. Then yes you are completely right, the bible will be true, god love humans, and the world has been created in 7 days.
That is, If you CHOOSE.
And that is where it all comes down to, choice. we can choose to believe everything. But we for instance cannot choose the direction of the revolutions of the earth. yet, we can choose to believe that the world revolts from north to south, and that the sun rises in north tomorrow morning.
I have faith that eventually people will be able to explain where all that water came from, just to flood the entire world. cos if we would have that much water, the shear weight of the isecaps, would have made our globe spin from north to south…

Scientist don't have faith. (excpets the silly stringstheorists…) Actually theories are so precise, proving them wrong is all scientists do. A scientist who has faith in his own theories, is a poor scientist. Having faith in the theories he saw proven in front of his eyes. Is basicly faith their own eyes.
If you want to describe faith like that, you have faith you are a man, and that books exist.


I am curious though, what are God's powers?


You gave a very well description of faith! (your last lign) It really is what I think about it aswell…

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

given that it has now been discovered -due to genetic testing,
that originally we ALL originated from the Sand Tribe,in Africa-
will that change people's beliefs in our origins,or will they
dimiss a scientific fact because they will not WANT to accept that?

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

I'm afraid the giant bogey creature planted all that evidence in our genes to undermine the one true god - whichever one is the one true god/dess. Bogey is also responsible for the entire fossil record, the heat residue from the big bang, and Rolf Harris. You unbelievers will all boil in bat vomit for your lack of faith.

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

Unbelievers in what though?
I sure don't believe in the “Bogey Man”-LOL
and was only quoting a scientific fact in the previous post!
Surely you don't NOT believe in genetic evidence?

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

Sorry Sandy, Whilst I don't believe all that I am told that “scientists say” I do believe in well researched and documented science. I suppose I was trying to use humour to make a point (and failed). Clearly we are all related, and I can see no evidence of any act of god in the last billion years or so. If He/She did start it all with the big bang or before then thanks, but I'm still not going to church.
In passing, the name of this thread “On what basis do people believe in anything” - It seems to me that the problem is just that, namely that some people do believe in anything! sadly I sometimes feel that they outnumber the rest of us.

Re: On what basis do people believe in anything?

oh well -seeing you were just using humour Chaparral-
that's okay then-I am glad we ARE in agreeance then.
And don't worry that the humour failed -mine often does too!!!

Well -I am not sure that we are out-numbered though -but we are
perhaps more out-spoken?
Most people will cling to their past beliefs and refuse to acknowledge
those beliefs are wrong,because they are too comfortable with them.
They do not want change and probaly have never had any real reason
to question what ever creed they have been raised to believe in.