Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

The ability to plan actions…

… to which there’s no match in animal brains…

…is the fundamental distinction between

ANIMALS 
&
HUMANS

ARE WE NOT REALLY JUST ANIMALS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FOOD CHAIN ?

Is that what we have come to today?

As the west, especially in Europe (we’re not as civilized here in America)
…abandons so many of the principles that made it civilized…

…Europe’s youth retreats into

…the mindless,

…the uncritical,

…and the superficial.

It sounds very pessimistic to talk about Western Civilization this way…

So how did the Nazis come to power in a nation as educated and civilized as Germany?

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

sounds like many of the things i see on american tv! mindless shows, uncritical thinking, superficiality..

the nazis came to power because hitler took power at the right, chaotic time. the people need a strong leader, and he was charismatic, and this flowed onto enough of the people, and the rest is history.

humans are animals. always have been, always will be.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

We are not “just” animals because -
1. we have more choices than other animals.
2. we are unjust.

Hitler was a vegetarian

I'm part of the food chain - I've been eaten by quite a few insects this summer.

Whilst I'm glad I don't live in a rough part of America (I'm glad I don't live in a rough part of anywhere) I can assure you that you are easily as civilised (civiliZed in the U.S. huh?) as anyone else. Though I suspect that your media panders to the lowest common denominator. Fear not, insipid global culture is spreading and soon we will all be more alike immersed in lowbrow “entertainment” - must dash, the Waltons are on telly! (again)

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Has your interest in saving a few dozen animals perked up after reading this thread ?

…mine started after reading Barbara Kingsolver’s ANIMAL, VEGETABLE, MIRACLE: A YEAR of FOOD LIFE

GOING VEGAN???

Is it really true that VEGETARIANS TASTE BETTER?

Barbara Kingsolver's book will open your eyes
in a hundred new ways to an old truth: You are what you eat !!!

Going VEGAN means no meat, dairy, fish, eggs, honey,
or anything else made from something with a FACE or LEGS!

Doing away with that 100Kg of fun (220 pounds)

The average AMERICAN adult eats roughly annually

22.7 Kg of pork (50 pounds)
27.3 Kg of beef (60 pounds)
39.1 Kg of chicken (86 pounds)
9.1 Kg of fish (20 pounds)
1.8 Kg of lamb (4 pounds)

Then again, lack of vitamins A, C, and B12 could eventually cause:
PERMANENT BLINDNESS,
BLEEDING OF THE GUMS,
and MENTAL ILLNESS respectively!

To get in touch with your militant animal-loving side read:

ETERNAL TREBLINKA: Our TREATMENT OF ANIMALS and THE HOLOCAUST
by Charles Patterson

…in the book, America’s consumption of animal products is compared to the NAZI genocide…

A quote from the book:

”each day millions of… animals, most of them, very, very young and all of them innocent,
are transported to killing centers to be slaughtered for the tables of the monster species.”

Next time you spend time starring at the ground beef in the grocery store,
also remember that vegetarian cuisine maximizes the time you’ll spend in the bathroom!

To all Animal loving Hypocrites…

Sick of Animals but love the tasty flavors they produce!

WHY?

Feeling more and more confused now???

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

I am astonished. It is very, well, colourful to compare bio-industry with genocide. But fact is that bio-industry is king and genocide like the nazi's is well, a bit like small time cattle farming.

It depends a bit on what kind of food legilation you uphold…

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

SUNNI said: “the people need a strong leader” 
 
LACK OF LEADERSHIP, not lack of technology, is why America’s goal for cutting CO2 emissions contrasts with Germany’s!

Germany is talking about lowering its emissions by 40% in 2020.

The U.S. government has promoted renewable energy since the energy crisis of the 1970’s ?

WHERE ARE WE NOW??? 
 
Whether you’re homeless or Microsoft’s Bill Gates…

…in AMERICA we like creativity, curiosity, and a sense of adventure!

We have a way of life that CHALLENGES CONVENTIONAL WISDOM.  
 
INTERNET is a genuine ALTERNATIVE to mass media for the ordinary citizen like YOU&ME in ways that will lead to a more representative and participatory AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

On mass-media you are passive, a watcher.

On the INTERNET, personal-media, you are active, a participant.
 
”The best way to predict the future is to invent it!”
 
Do it first, learn how second!

Even ACTION in the wrong direction…

…is informative!

Good Luck happens to those IN ACTION!

You might get where you thought you were going,

…but you could easily end up…

…SOMEWHERE BETTER!

“Life is like riding a BICYCLE. To keep your balance you must keep moving.”

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

we need strong leaders, not these fat cat lobbyists or other bureaucratic jerks whose sole purpose is personal gain. money money money! well, tell me, mr. fat cat, what'cha gonna do with all that money when we're all six feet under?

i will have no cable tv. i am thoroughly disgusted with the things on television. sex on 98% of the channels, violence, the same news on every station, and how Hollywood and Paris Hilton and The Hills are more important than the War, or the people who REALLY need our help..those in the genocides and ethnic cleansings in this world, those who are starving..victims..

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

SUNI… you are a STRONG LEADER!!! 
 
STOP speaking in a corporate voice, and START speaking in a personal voice, the INTERNET reader's time is scarce.  
 
“If you don't like the news, go out and make your own.”  I don't remember who said this.

I DIDN'T BELIEVE

STANDING ON THE BANK OF A RIVER

WHICH WAS WIDE AND SWIFT,

THAT I WOULD CROSS THAT BRIDGE

PLAITED FROM THIN, FRAGILE REEDS

FASTENED WITH BAST

I WALKED DELICATELY AS BUTTERFLY

AND HEAVILY AS AN ELEPHANT;

I WALKED SURELY AS A DANCER

AND WAVERED AS A BLIND MAN.

I DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT I WOULD CROSS THAT BRIDGE

AND NOW THAT I AM STANDING ON THE OTHER SIDE,

I DON'T BELIEVE I CROSSED IT.

Leopold Staff (20th century Polish Writer)  

Enough said, the greatest sermons are not delivered, they are lived!!!

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

strong leader? :) i like that.. leader. the wolf in me :)

and i agree, the greatest sermons are lived!

you are wise and offer so much to the gaia community members.. i am grateful for your presence here at gaia! you always get my brain thinking :)

light and joy,
Suni

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Well vegetarians, do taste better. Sexually seen that is, they are slimmer. They do taste differently, and are often weak due to Anemia (vegan's even more)
For instance vitamin B12 can only come from animal sources, and can not yet be synthesized. (last time I checked) Meaning if you are a die hard vegan, you are bound to die in 3 years… hmm…

In America people might like creativity and such. They apparently also like a president who would go to war, and re-elect him even when everyone sees he is doing a horrible job. Right now America has a war on finance waging within its borders.

What is your entire point of this thread btw?

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

You're done reading this THREAD / POST now.
 
Get moving NOW GAIAns! 

Don't just sit there!!!
 
DON'T BE AFRAID TO INNOVATE;  BE DIFFERENT;
following the herd (hey you're an ANIMAL)
…is a sure way to mediocrity.
 
STOP IT NOW!

STOP POSTING ON THIS THREAD !!!!!!!!!!

All the best,

Lou

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Baaa !

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Start Small, Think Big, But Act Now!

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

I do hope that most of the people in this group do not need encouragement to think for themselves. :P

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

As to reply to your original post:

- We are just animals, we have always been, but we are in fact on top of the foodchain.

'As the west, especially in Europe (we’re not as civilized here in America)
…abandons so many of the principles that made it civilized…'

Could you perhaps give an example?

“So how did the Nazis come to power in a nation as educated and civilized as Germany?”
Fact is, that no matter how educated or civilized a nation is, as long as people do not think for themselves. (think of blindly following orders/religion etc. ) People will follow strong leaders. There was a lot of political and economical turmoil in Germany at that time. Fascism provided an answer for the problem. For its economy, for its political dis contempt. And for national feelings.
remember, fascim didn't show its bad side until far after its settlement as the main power.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

In the past 20 years, no other music has fascinated GERMAN people more than Techno music.  

It is obvious that no other music is able to connect with the GERMAN SOUL like Techno music can, and accordingly Germany is the only country left on the planet where Techno music is still thriving today. 

Being painfully aware of the danger of getting labeled once again as ”following its Nazi past”, GERMAN people are being very creative with Techno music.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

'Being painfully aware of the danger of getting labeled once again as ”following its Nazi past”, GERMAN people are being very creative with Techno music.'

Again, could you be more specific. This order of words might be considered offensive for some people. That isn't really a problem. But you will have to give a clear example (factual data) that backs up that statement.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Instead of pumping-up the volume… Domus Ulixes 
 
…let’s talk to each other, OK? 
 
Don’t extrapolate too much from the facts. 
 
Sometimes you have to MOVE WITH THE NUMBERS you have… 
 
…whether they make sense or not! 
 
Don't wait for perfection. 
 
Below is a rough translation, from the original in Korean, of a LETTER OF APOLOGY, from Mr. Hong, the owner of the Adolph Hitler TECHNO Bar & Cocktail Show. 
 
Dear foreign customers,
 
I am the owner of ”Adolph Hitler Bar”.
I've been snubbed by some foreign customers ever since I opened a cocktail
bar named ”Hitler”.  But I couldn't answer their questions nor explain my thoughts because of the difficulties of different languages.
I'd like to say that I don't believe that Hitler was a good person either.
I can totally understand why foreigners are upset. I've learned his brutalities against the peace of the world from books, TV and movies. 
As you know, Korean had a similar situation with Japan during WW2. 
I have upsetting feelings about what Japanese did to Korean as well, If I
saw a bar name ”HiroHitto ” in other countries, I should feel the same way.
I am not a NAZI, the bar name came out at a meeting with interior designer.
We just wanted a name that can be related to or represent GERMANY, easy to
remember and easy to design the interior with. We couldn't think about the
history point of view when picking the name. The name ”Hitler” was totally meaningless, it was nothing more than a material for the business. 
I feel shame and I'd like to make a sincere apology for using the name
without being able to consider how foreigners might feel. I also thank to Mr. Lebow and his wife for letting me know my big mistake and giving me the chance to publish a written apology.  
 
http://www.unpopart.org/readymades/techno.html

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

DOMUS ULIXES wrote:  
 
“People will follow strong leaders.” 
 
Follow this link, and you’ll find a strong leader. 
 
http://groups.gaia.com/gaia_lounge/conversations/view/456905

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

If you refer to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, as a strong leader. I beg to differ.
A strong leader is a leader that is fully supported by all of his people.
Remember, Hitler's rise to power was completely legal.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

How far do you want to take this?
Drawing from well documented Brit History, we have had good/bad/weak/strong/good and weak/etc etc Leaders and often their outcomes are affected by what happened outside of their domain or time. At the moment the Brit government is being criticised as if it had caused the whole world recession.
Who props up the leaders ?
Who tells us they are weak or strong ? will history tell a different story.
If Hitler had come undone sooner would he still be strong ?
If Edward the confessor (who seemed to be waiting for god to sort it all out) had lived in peaceful times would we have thought he was a strong king ?

I would never “fully support” any leader, they are all self seeking bastards - devil take the lot of them !

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

If you PUSH the LIMITS—you define NEW LIMITS—and then you push those.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Would Cheetah MEAT be good for:

1) Breakfast
2) Lunch
3) or Dinner ?

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

A quick snack ?

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

I would rather steal his prey.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

A quick CHEETAH snack between bicycle rides (between 12:30 - 6:00 p.m.)…

”A hippie is some who looks like Tarzan, walks like Jane, and smells like CHEETAH.“  –Ronald Reagan (America's 40th President)

(Dude… look it up… I'm not making this up! …look it up!)

… a quick snack like a Snicker bar and a Gatorade (466 calories).

It gives me a buzz.

I love BLUE Gatorade (a.k.a Raspberry flavor)

I may drink five 20-ounce bottles in a day.

I am not a big water person, never have been.

I could use Cheetah SPEED.

If I can't be as fast as a CHEETAH, may be I can smell like one ???

Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

If you were an animal what would you be? (this is not a trick question)

1) a cheetah
2) a teddy bear
3) or a shark

”Be a good animal, true to your animal instincts.”  –D. H. Lawrence (British Poet)

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Homo Sapiens Sapiens

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

“Why did the chicken cross the road?”  

…is one of the oldest and most famous riddles around.  

The most common answer to this riddle is  

…”To get to the other side.”  

Let’s give a HOMO SAPIEN spin to this riddle …Domus Ulixes  

“What's a HOMO SAPIEN urn?”

Answer: ”About three pieces of rock a week.”  

“How do you make Neanderthal man cross the road?”

Answer: ”Tell him that a HOMO SAPIEN earns two more pieces of rock a week than he does.”  

Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

“All of the ANIMALS except man know that the principal business of life is to enjoy it.”    

–Samuel Butler (British Novelist and Poet)

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

My mind is just drifting thinking the other way.

I think the difference between harvesting and animal slaughter is of screams, blood and movement. It is 'taking a life' either way.

Now, if, say tomorrow, everybody decides to be a vegetarian. That will increase the demand of food from plant sources rapidly. Their prices will rise because of that. Now the world already has a shortage of food. So to grow more food, more land for cultivation will be required. That will result in more clearing of forests and more loss of trees. Now, everybody is worried about global warming. And it would end up such that many wild animals would lose their home.
Also the most common animals consumed are not endangered. There are plenty of them. Instead, if they were left on their own, if humans don't eat them something else will. And won't even care if their species survive, even for just their own selfishness. I'm not saying lets wait till they get extinct and then we can switch over to being a vegetarian. I'm saying, that as long as they are consumed, they won't be. And that's the irony of it.

There are strong leaders. And leaders are strong because of their confidence. That's the problem. They strongly believe that they are doing the right thing. Being a strong leader isn't always being a right leader. And people tend to follow. Because the way soldiers march together as one is more intimidating than a busy street. Because sticks tied together will be harder to break. Because it gives power and strength and that messes up with people's head big time. Though, I'd like to believe that it isn't important how far you get, what's important is that you get where you want to go.

A strict vegetarian diet can, as said, cause deficiencies. That doesn't mean that you thrive on a non-vegetarian diet. At the end of the day, what's important is that you have a balanced diet.

I like animals, but I like plants too. So what do I eat?

I'm against people using fur and killing animals for anything else. Or them being tortured and troubled.
I don't know. I might just be a hypocrite. Most humans have a tendency of seeing things the way it's comfortable. Like polluting Mars will actually make the climate more favorable for life. But not being a strict vegetarian and caring for animals is better than not being a strict vegetarian and not caring for them.

A food chain is just a part of a food web.And we're food for some other animals (although not good food.)

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so”.

-Shakespeare

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Yeah. :)

There's only the favorable and the not-so-favorable. And that too is relative.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

FOOD POLICE… where are you??? 
 
Anyone who eats – and especially those who eat without thinking about their food should really think about this FOOD CHAIN thing. 
 
I love reading about people who think differently, act differently and live differently than the norm. 
 
Put the pets vs food dilemma to rest… 
 
How about the sustainability and environmental impact of our FOODWAYS not FOOD CHAIN? 
 
”If you can't beat them, join them.”

“Green at last! Green at last!  Thank God Almighty we're Green at last!” 
 
To borrow from Martin Luther King, Jr's ”I Have a Dream” speech.

”Free at last! Free at last!  Thank God Almighty we're Free at last!”

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

I see them come crawling from their hyperstores. Baskets bulging with ersatz food in easy cook boxes (now even cheaper than real food) and their spotty overweight children.
 I also see the small farmers pushed to the edges to fall off quietly while Megacorps grow fat on the dietary disfunction of dreary drones.

EAT THE RICH !

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Call it SoSTOMACHability, if you can't stomach Sustainability. 
 
I love reading about people who think differently, act differently and live differently than the norm.  
 
…but if our understanding of the FOOD CHAIN stops at our understanding of how to open a bag of Doritos... 
 
… or how to open ersatz food in easy cook boxes, if you like, let’s open that food pantry… 
 
…wide open! 
 
Could city folks feed themselves off the land year round if we would only can the fruits and vegetables we buy at the FARMER's MARKET in the summer and store them in our pantry. 
 
If you’ve lived in a “real” New York City apartment, you will realize that most of NYC, if they are lucky, has a broom closet. 
 
Room for canned FARMER’s MARKET fruits & vegetables ??? 
 
We all have a responsibility to conserve and be aware of our impact on this planet… 
 
…but don’t make assumptions that we're all bumbling idiots!

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Lou, What is your point?

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Domus Ulixes… do you watch other people's lives as though they were a spectator sport?

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Lou that is not an answer. That is an evasive question.
I am asking this from a more moderator point of view; does this story have any line of discussion, or reason of existence other then a rant about the world?

Because if you want to rant about the world, well, you have a blog for that. Not a discussions group. I do not mind you making provocative statements, you choose for that yourself.  But it is more the setting in which they are written. If you please, write it more structured, this seems just one one-liner after the other. And it hurts my eyes to see text in that fashion.

But as to your question: No.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

The world is not stable, nor a predictable place as it used to be. 
 
Behind the “reassuring” numbers lies insecurity and INTELLECTUAL DISPUTE. 
 
There is real uncertainty out there. People seem more unsure of their future today than I’ve ever seen. 
 
The last 2 years, I’ve seen people suffer more violent rollercoaster rides than they have ever seen before in their careers. 
 
Whenever they hear “BANG!” they jump in panic, since they no longer assume the world is predictable. 
 
People today LACK THE INTELLECTUAL FRAMEWORK to make sense of what’s going on, let alone predict the future with confidence. 
 
The credit crunch has seriously screwed-up economic growth.
 
Mo’ money, mo’ money, mo’ money! 
 
If the BIG GOV keeps pouring money into markets, what impacts will it have? 
 
I expect a strong economic rebound in the next 6 months or so… 
 
…but after that who knows DOMUS ULIXES ???

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

If you poor out money onto the market. You might get economical reassurance back but you will have a strongly devalued dollar. Right now, the only reason that it doesn't fall, is because the economy is doing reasonably good actually.

The problem with war is that it devalues money. Think of it, moeny gets spend into economy, people earn it. But the resources available, do not increase, after all, they get destroyed. Hence there is no advance in society. Making its monetary unit devalue.

If people lack the intellectual framework, teach them. Let them first understand that credit equals debt.

p.s. the last post was much better lou!

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

DOMUS ULIXES said:  “If people lack the intellectual framework, teach them.”  

No!  DOMUS ULIXES …No!  

No Life Has the Room for Everything in It!  

We’re on the World Wide Web.

You help me first, then I help you!  

IF YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND…  

…it’s called BITTERNESS !

One of the reasons we choose to feel BITTER

…is because it's easier than feeling PAIN!
 
It makes us feel tough!

Being BITTER gives the illusion that we're fighting,

…that we're not taking defeat lying down!

But BITTERNESS is a log jam.

It won't let us get moving!

If you think that everyone around you is F*&%#D UP !!!

…you'll probably have to deal with BITTERNESS first.

It won't let you get moving!

If you find some part of you is saying

”What's the point of this stupid stuff?”

It won't do any good!

…that's only your BITTERNESS

…trying to get out of a little hard work!

Let’s work on BITTERNESS first before we work on

…education.  

P.S. GREAT LIVES are the ones…

…that are ruled by…

a readiness to take chances,

…even to look foolish if necessary.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

I think most of this is just rambling, but it does get some conversations going. Two points that came up I'd like to talk about.

Vegan/Vegetarian attitude/lifestyle:

I grew up on a farm. I've raised and eaten both plants and animals. I think it's hard work and most people don't really understand what the farmer goes through. Some appreciation would be nice.

The veggies only lifestyle bugs me. MOST say the eat only veggies because they can't stand the idea of cute animals being hurt and killed and being treated so unfairly. They want to reduce suffering.

All well and good, but that's a lie. It has been proven that plants can and do respond to hurtful stimuli in a negative matter. IE they feel pain when you kill them. They simply lack mouths to scream or any other physical evidence to show it. So, what I usually hear people who refuse animals saying is, suffering is okay as long as I don't have to see it in a way I can understand. Plants were still living, and you still have to kill them to eat them.

I think it would be better, if people were more respectful period of the things that give up their lives so that we can survive. The Indians had a habit of thanking every plant and animal that gave up their lives so that we may live and I stick by that. I recognize the suffering and the pain and I pay it homage.


Hitler's rise to power:
When I was in the sixth grade our teacher showed us an interesting movie in school. It was about a teacher in California in the '70's who had studied Hilter and how he gained power and the methods he used. As an experiment, he had decided to try similar tactics on the students in his junior high classes to see how they would respond, minus the fascism.

One of the main motivators Hilter used was the singling out of a group of people, rather than singling out a race, the teacher picked all children with brown hair. He started treating them differntly, segrigating the classes, treating the brown haired children better.
Secondly, he demanded this special class start taking more pride in their actions. Sit up strait, listen closely, pay attention. Now that they were the special class they had more responsablity to act accordingly.

With in a week the school had almost completely segrigated itself even outside of his help. The brown haired children started a group called “The Wave” (also the title of the movie). All the children with other hair colors were treated more poorly, started doing worse in school, the special class of children did better, started informing on the diffrent haired children, becoming more strict and militant in their actions, forming their own sects and groups.

With in two weeks The Wave, was almost completely out of the teacher's control, it was spreading like wildfire through the town, those children who had felt left out, or just with out a cause, suddenly found themselves important, and full of duty and pride. Segrigation made them feel special and gave them purpose, and they began to teach it to others.

The movie ended rather dramtically, with the teacher telling the now completely zelot-like children that he would introduce them to the “real” leader of The Wave, in the auditorium one day. Of course they all gathered eager to find out who this amazing man was who had started this wonderful new order only to find the teacher pulling back the theather curtain on an old black and white movie of Hitler during one of his many famious inflamitory speeches.

What I learned from this personally, as I expect the children did, and the teacher as well, was that ANYONE could easily succum to the nazi idea. All you have to do is tell some people they are better than others, and give them some one to put all their hatred into, and quite soon, most people are willing to become zelots for a cause.

As for animals on the food chain, and all that. I think the thing that seperates us most from animals, like the bible pointed out is our own shame in our nudity. No other creature on the planet wears clothing. No other creature feels the need.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

JustPadric said:   
 
“the thing that separates us from animals… 
 
…is OUR OWN SHAME IN OUR NUDITY” 
 
Once we were all happy to walk around naked, now we're not ??? 
 
I've always wondered if that's why they call it “Victoria’s Secret”? 
 
It's the classic anxiety nightmare !  
 
You're standing in front of a room full of work colleagues, your boss is there, maybe even that newbie you've been trying to impress at work.  
 
And you're stark naked.  
 
Yikes!!! 
 
Why are we so ashamed of being seen naked? If we were naked in public, most of us would feel exposed. And of course, a naked human is just a bit MORE NAKED THAN other ANIMALS.  
 
We have only minimal body hair, ANIMALS have fur.  
 
…and then we shave our pubes? 
 
…shaving pubes can make you itchy and give you red bumps! 
 
Why? 
 
Don't laugh. :) 
 
Hair or fur… is one of the greatest mysteries in evolution which even bothered Charles Darwin. 
 
One of the theories is that we lost our fur as a way of dealing with the heat of the sun. 
 
This is where it gets a little weird… 
 
… because most mammals use fur to protect them from the sun ??? 
 
Some anthropologists believe our ancestors' unique ability to sweat, along with their upright stance, meant we could COOL quicker without fur which make human nudity all but natural. 
 
My $.02 
 
Stay COOL GAIAns… 
 
…even you furry little ones !

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Why do we feel shame in our nudity?

Hmm…Why do we wear clothes? For warmth in cold weather, some protection from the sun's rays, and to prevent direct contact with other objects to minimize injury to the skin. Ashamed is probably when you feel that you should avoid doing something because it leaves you vulnerable. So maybe we feel shame in nudity because clothes are supposed to be protective. I don't know, it's the only somewhat logical reason I could find.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Shame ! such a weird concept. The thing I really don't get is, how having covered our “shameful” nudity, we are then persuaded to feel shame for wearing the “wrong” clothes.
 I know I am not normal in my total disregard for fashion, and am amused that sometime in every decade I am suddenly fashionable by accident because some random item from my cupboard has come around again. I don't panic though because soon I will be comfortably unfashionable again.
I long ago realised that by being out of fashion I would repel shallow people and only have to deal with those that look below the surface. Consequently I am blessed with great friends and a truly astounding wife. My children used to hate the fact that their parents were regarded as odd by their mates, but now in their late teens suddenly these odd looking parents are apparently “cool” (it won't last!).

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

I just found out that the derivation of the word 'shame' is actually traced upto an Indo-European root kam/kem which means 'to cover'.

I think shame is different from embarrassment. Shame is more like a mechanism, almost preprogrammed. Embarrassment is more of the learned kind. Though most of the time it's difficult to know the difference between them. Which makes them both weird concepts.
While shame would ask someone to wear something, embarrassment would haunt someone over what to wear. Some people want to be fashionable to fit into things or to be noticed. For some people ,it gives them the thrill of experiencing something new. The concept of fashion, though, provides a monetary value to an idea related to clothes. And that can be related to art too.
I'm aware of just these reasons. So, why someone would want to embarrass someone wearing the 'wrong' clothes would be because they want that person to change the way they did to fit in, or they are noticed and they feel superior about it, or they are of the opinion that being out of fashion indicates being boring. Though it's not necessary that a particular fashionable person wants to embarrass someone who's not into fashion, or looks down upon him/her.
The aim of fashion may be to look more attractive. Though, fashion may just be highlighted because of the money it provides.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Conformity is an interesting thing is it not? We wear cloths because our care takers wore clothing, and theirs before them, and so on.

One of the first important lessons I learned when I started to try and expand myself and my universe, was to question all the concepts that seem to apply with out thinking. Clothing, money, ownership, partnerships, etc.

I'm not one to be told to do anything. I certainly don't like doing something with out knowing the reason why I'm doing it. I was always one of those kids who was never satisfied with “just because”.

I find fashion mostly silly. Today, some one decides everyone should wear, aviator glasses and rubber galoshes looking things, and tomorrow it's shave all your hair off and wear a fake tail out of your belly button.

Modern fashion to me, is a way for people with a lack of self identity to quickly become part of a group. Like a lot of human social interactions our need for social acceptance is huge. We spend a great part of the day making sure other's around us are all doing the same things we are.
“Great weather we're having.” “Did you see that homerun last night?” “Isn't it something that Obama became president”

We are always checking to see if everyone's doing the same things we are, agreeing with the things we think, and there for confirming that we are, ourselves okay.

I never had much use for this behavior, even as a kid. I was pretty solid with who I was, I don't really need anyone to confirm or deny it for me. It's the same reason we enjoy our ancestry, or figuring out past lives, or joining in communities, clubs and social groups, be it religious, eating habits, or cliques.

We define ourselves by our relation to things. I'm Irish, so that must determine things about me, or I was a WWII fighter pilot in a past life, so I can relate that way, or I'm a vegan, or a pagan, or bisexual. Any of these things allow us to almost instantly be included into some sort of fold or brotherhood. They have predetermined factors that we can assign to ourselves, and help identify others like or unlike us.

You don't wear aviator glasses, so you're not “hip”. Meaning, you're not part of our group. Meaning your shunned or out cast. Meaning you're alone. Please don't disclude me!

Could just be left over pack mentality, because of course, those animals left alone, were easier for predators to hunt and kill. I can't really explain the horror and upset people feel when not allowed to be part of some group.

I guess some people are just born loners. Me, I don't mind being outside, it's entertaining watching what goes on. Gives interesting perspectives.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

I so agree with that !
 :-)

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Conformity is interesting. Because it brings in discipline too. That's what makes a society run successfully in a way. Otherwise there would be total chaos.
Things develop because people first accept an idea and then improve it. Also the more the conformity, the more likely that someone will rebel. So maybe like at-least most things, conformity has two sides too.

Maybe it makes people safe to be sure that no one is opposing their views. Perhaps it makes the people with same kind of thoughts predictable to one another.

I'm not into fashion myself. And I am myself quite a loner. Though I've never been shunned, or maybe I didn't ever notice.:P

But making clothes is difficult. Making beautiful clothes is even more so. Some are just weird. But sometimes they work. It involves skill. Fashion doesn't only include the followers. It includes people who make those clothes, and who create a trend.

Of course, I wouldn't promote any prejudice based on that.Or anything for that matter. But wouldn't believing that people into fashion, are just looking for conformity be a kind of prejudice?
Maybe the trick is in being inspired, but not influenced. And analyzing if it's worth it.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

According to Japanese researchers, women can make themselves more beautiful by tugging their pubic hair.

The tugging stimulates the sex hormones, gets blood flowing toward the genitals and releases pheromones which are said to give women in love their “glow”.

JustPadric said:  “tomorrow it's shave all your hair off and wear a fake tail out of your belly button.”  
 
We need more hair not less hair!

Not much was said by the Japanese researchers about…

…“a fake tail out of your belly button” …

…we're talking about real hair below the belly button.

http://omnipelagos.com/entry?n=pubic_hair

With “a fake tail out of our belly button” and more pubic hair…

…are we not trying to be more like…

…ANIMALS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FOOD CHAIN???

Yes/No?

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

No!

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Are WE Just Animals Using Social Media? 
 
NO  ??? 
 
No… is a pretty strong statement CHAPARRAL…   
 
…MAY BE NOT would have been better… may be ??? 
 
Let’s give this thread a NEW SPIN … 
 
Are we just ANIMALS using social media? 
 
I'm so sick of everyone talking about how SOCIAL MEDIA is going to revolutionize the way we communicate and disseminate information without talking about the fact… 
 
…that it's going to dumb down the way we communicate at the same time. 
 
 Sure, we can now spread our opinions to millions of readers in the click of a mouse, and if enough idiots read it, more idiots will follow. 
 
These same idiots–people in my generation and younger–seem to no longer care about, let alone have any skill in, traditional communication.  
 
How many people have BLOGS that they update regularly? 
 
Now, how many of those people can give an effective speech in a room full of people without stumbling over their words, wringing their hands the whole time, or relying on Powerpoint or some other software to illustrate all their ideas for them?  
 
The so-called social networking ”revolution” is simply facilitating things like social anxiety disorder, attention deficit disorder, and general laziness, while completely neglecting the methods of communication that stimulate critical thinking and other important mental and social functions.  
 
It will be real interesting to see what happens when this generation takes power… 
 …if we're still here…  
 
…from one social networking animal to another.  
 
Thanks for reading my rant. 
 
Thank you, thank you, thank you 
 
Are we not ANIMALS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FOOD CHAIN???

Yes/No?

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

haha,
 I must say I agree with you on:

“The so-called social networking ”revolution” is simply facilitating things like social anxiety disorder, attention deficit disorder, and general laziness, while completely neglecting the methods of communication that stimulate critical thinking and other important mental and social functions.  ”

Still we are not on the bottom of the foodchain. And not even on the bottom of the social media scale. We are in fact rather high. We are civilized. Haha, whatever that means.

No, fact is, that what happens beyond that screen in front of you, is so more important then anything else. The best thing would be, if this pod was frequently visited, but never posted.

That dignifies 'interest in discussion about elaborate topics' but strong link back to the real world.

keep it in there guys!

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

It's actually funny, if you've read 'The Descent of Man' by Charles Darwin which was written way back in 1871.
What he concluded was that the organisms higher in the evolution had a tendency to extend their 'sympathies' (his word for it). In a way a human tries to project the idea of 'self' beyond him, to a community and further more. The more the civilization advances, the more these tendencies grow, even for complete strangers. Maybe human 'sympathies' haven't diminished. Maybe it's just diffused over a larger area.
Now you can reach people in so many different corners of the world and you begin to identify them as your fellow being. Once the idea of patriotism was so intense because people were concentrating their sense of oneness with only the people around them. I don't say patriotism is a bad thing. But it is more promoted in relation to war, and I think that nothing could be more patriotic than the want of peace. But it doesn't go that way. Today you know when something wrong is happening to someone far away, or to a nation. And people protest. You have so many opinions to consider and you can't be brainwashed to think in way. People extend their support. No matter where they are. Sure, it isn't perfect. But then, what really is?
It's not affecting the social aspect of humans ,but instead seems to be running on it. But along a different line. It depends from person to person how much pleasure it gives to become addicted to it. That may be even related to the difference between medications and addictions.

Humans aren't some kind of monsters. Sure we make a lot of mistakes, but we've come a long way too. We're learning to be better, and that doesn't happen easily or quickly. We have to keep trying.

But what even if we are only animals at the bottom of the food-chain?
What are we supposed to be anyway?

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

DESAFINIDA said:   

”But what even if we are only animals at the bottom of the food-chain?   WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BE ANYWAY?” 
 
Dogs come when they’re called; cats take a message and get back to you later. 
 
Animals are such agreeable friends—they ask no questions, they pass no criticisms. 
 
You tell me DESAFINIDA ???

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Worker bees kill their brothers, and mother bees kill their fertile daughters. And according to them, it's the right thing.

Who can say that dogs and cats don't criticize? Who knows what they talk about?

Are humans different? Maybe in someways and in someways not. But so is every other species. :)

I don't know what humans are supposed to be or even if they are supposed to be something. I guess, there's an entire universe out there, that doesn't revolve around us.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

(sorry about the blunt “no” I was having a bad day)
Surely communication takes many forms. I believe that in the canary islands people would whistle messages to each other from one mountain to another across steep valleys. This may be effective, but “in a room full of people…etc”. i.e. the means of communication should be appropriate to the setting.

 Here on the internet we can include images, and draw on resources that are not available in a room full of people. I'm not sure that we live in an era or culture where a well constructed speech or argument cuts any mustard. Soundbites have taken over and we are in danger of being overrun by extremists with fancy catchphrases and oversimplified policies aimed at people who don't think deeply. Hello Democracy!

Forty years ago I disagreed with the argument that 'Democracy was not perfect but was the best system we had'. I disagreed because it seemed that nobody was looking for a better system. I still disagree for the same reason. I am not a lemming and I don't want to run over the cliff edge just because the majority do.
It seems to me that no-one will say “enough” because there are no votes in it, but in terms of the excesses and wastage of resources in the Western world, we are all being propelled to the cliffs edge.
Once we have fallen from our shaky perch we will return to a lower level in the food chain and probably take the majority of large creatures with us.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

On Sunday August 16, 2009, yesterday, Usain Bolt won the 100m final of the World Championships with a new world record time of 9.58 secs in Berlin.

Bolt's performance at last year's 2008 Beijing Olympics with a world record time of 9.69sec comes only second to Michael Phelps, the HUMAN FISH's 8 Olympic Gold Medals.

Who is the fastest animal on earth?

1) Jamaican sprinter Usain Bolt… or…
2) The Cheetah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWKnMHZiaSE

Is Usain Bolt superhuman or an ANIMAL ???

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2009/8/17/1250467886864/Usain-Bolt-001.jpg

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

the problem with phelps nowadays is: he will never beat his olympic record. All these records have been made by swimsuit technology. Which is as of now outlawed.

And the fastest Animal?
well, The cheetah's speed is matched by the sailfish. But, the peregrine falcon sometimes achieves speeds well beyond the average speed of a speeding car.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

I have the deepest respect for sincere curiosity – and very little respect for self-righteousness (a.k.a. B.S.)

We're going to stop all this B.S. and swap it for honest, nonjudgmental curiosity.

The useful answers, the answers that help us answer questions like:

ARE WE NOT ANIMALS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FOOD CHAIN ?

…are always the more forgiving ones.

There is always a good reason for everything!

There is certainly a good reason for why you lost direction…

…and ended up on this thread/discussion…

… and this thread/discussion is going to help you find direction again.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

I don't think there is always a good reason for everything. Better said, I know there isn't. On a quantum scale there is no world with cause and effect. This is a deterministic view of the world. You have for instance spontaneous particle creation. And the whole idea and proof about this, wouldn't have been possible if there was a cause. (it has been showed by experiment)

So I didn't lost direction, at least, not in a topical kind of the word. I must say that I have lost direction, just what your goal of this topic is though. I have no Idea, but I can't really discover it by myself can I now?

What is B.S. ?

The good thing about this thread is that I have never had to question how I view the world, and I cherish the people who do, but you are not one of them. I am sorry if this offends you.

On a small note here, just because you might have a different direction, doesn't mean that other people's direction is wrong. It is just different. And you will have to understand their direction if you ever want to change theirs. If they will even let you, or find it comfortable to listen to you.

Remember all roads lead to Rome…

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Lou's not going to like this one Dom, you can expect some more abuse!

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Abuse ???

It's not about anger CHAPARRAL …it’s about love,

ARE WE NOT ANIMALS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FOODCHAIN?

…struck me as a meaningful and compelling discussion,

and the shifts in reality it offers …

…offer strong visual possibilities!

Well, with these new discoveries, coupled with my own knowledge, I guess I’m not that oblivious or an ignorant ANIMAL.
 
I’m just an information super highway late bloomer.
 
Then again… maybe I'm just a slow learner???
 
It's not enough to reach for love unless I care enough to give it!

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

I'm Sorry Lou!
I entirely apologise for my snide comment. I felt you were being a bit aggressive, but I am ignorant of virtual etiquette. I now read you as trying to stimulate debate - a thoroughly worthwhile enterprise.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Snide comment CHAPARRAL… what snide comment ???

I am the FORREST GUMP of the INTERNET.

When people misunderstand me, I don't get upset !

Run FORREST Run

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

There is an ANIMAL in all of us—and it has great instincts.

You can trust your ANIMAL instincts.

The ANIMAL inside us knows how fast to move and how much we can carry.

And it tells us things that don't always make sense—at first.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

I'm the kind of guy who, when no one's paying attention, burps and farts, like everybody else.

I'm not a robot.  I'm an ANIMAL !

I'm going to ride my bike, and I'm going to spread this message around, and not just on the world-wide-web.

You can never get rid of those cynics on GAIA.com, there's nothing you and I can do about that.

That is inevitable, the information superhighway serves the wicked as well as the righteous!

I'm the strongest person on this thread.  I've got to do what's right.

I think GAIA.com needs that.

I'd like this thread to be an example of hard-core passionate writing and thinking, that doesn't whine…

…and then you shut up.

Don't react to events, create them!

Mean gossips, haters and bullies.  I graduated from high school a long time ago.

I think that's the best.

Don't you?

Run Forrest Run

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Everyone has got to do, what they deem as right. But this doesn't mean, we all know what right is for others.
We know what is right for us. To know what is right for others, requires listening to them.
Listen to them.

You don't need to spread the message that you are an animal. People might misinterpret it. I wonder how people got the idea that they are robots in the first place. Would mainstream life have been called robotic, before robots were invented?

It doesn't matter what age we are in. There will always be Dogma's and conventions that are superimposed upon us, by our parents, friends and society. This doesn't make any of them good, or bad.

As I said before, people decide for themselves what is good. All you can do is show them examples.
And if you give them a choice, besides just your own.  They will listen.

Good luck.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

You sense some kind of danger on this thread GAIAns. 

Take a look at an ANIMAL who won't move, and you will unmistakenly get the message of this thread !!!!

There's trouble up ahead… you say GAIAns.

ANIMALS don't necessarily have the best information or the most perfect judgement, but they ALWAYS have a compelling reason for standing still.

The same is true for us.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Be a good ANIMAL, true to your ANIMAL instincts. 

Your ANIMAL instincts will guide you better than any well-meant advice… 

…especially from me !!! 

A human being is not a rational ANIMAL, but an ANIMAL capable of reason.    





Run Forrest Run

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

In order to DESIRE, men debase women;  in order to DESIRE, women keep their DESIRE secret (even from themselves!)

Where does kindness fit in all this?

The pleasures of cruelty and the cruelty of pleasures are touchstones of modern life.

Are we not ANIMALS at the bottom of the food chain?



Run Forrest Run

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

DESIRE…

…if you love it, need it, and have something to say, you can make it happen!




Run Forrest Run

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

September 11, 2001…
 
…after 9/11, we as a nation, United States of America, have put more walls up around us as never before, and in the process, have disconnected ourselves EMOTIONALLY, if not physically, from many of our natural allies, (nature, ANIMALS, plants, and our natural instincts (a.k.a. ANIMAL instincts) to embrace the world.

Don't lose hope…

…our country is still exploding with innovators and idealists like me! :)

Everyday, I hear from people with new ideas to clean-up the earth, or with new thoughts about how to repair something, in our beloved USA, that desperately needs repairing.

And even if some of these ideas are WACKY, something tells me that this country is still bursting with vitality FROM BELOW!!!

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

OBAMA will speak at the Target Center in Minneapolis tomorrow Saturday, Semptember 12, 2009.

He's scheduled to speak at 12:30pm. Rally is free and open to the public. First come, first served. Here are the details from the White House…
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/polinaut/archive/2009/09/obama_speaks_at.shtml
Be there by 9:30 am when the doors open…

I will be wearing my blue navy THE NORTH FACE cap, with NEON ORANGE ”The North Face” written on it.  You can't miss me!

If you can't make it, meet me at STARBUCKS, on Nicollet Mall, between 8th and 9th street, after the rally.  There's lots of people there, lots of room, lots of lights… in short it's a safe place.

”Once you go Barack, you''ll never go back!”

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/polinaut/archive/2009/09/obama_speaks_at.shtml

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

please use your blog for these anouncements.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

On Health Care, from the Target Center in Minneapolis (9/12/09):

”I am not the first president to take up this cause, but I am determined to be the last.”   –Barack Obama

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Just remember THE UGLY DUCKLING, was neither a duckling or ugly.

He was a swan raised by ducks!

In this fairy tale, Hans Christian Andersen concludes:

”Being born in a duck yard does not matter, if only you are hatched from a swan's egg.”

ARE WE NOT JUST ANIMALS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FOOD CHAIN?

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Trust your ANIMAL instincts. 
 
Few ANIMALS died in the 2004 TSUNAMI. 
 
In 2004, the giant TSUMANI waves killed more than 150,000 people. 
 
According to Eye witnesses:

- Elephants screamed and ran for higher ground.

- Dogs refused to go outdoors.

- Flamingos abandoned their low-lying breeding areas.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Demand difference of opinion.

Welcome dissent, but always be the one who decides.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Again, you are not discussing anything here any more. Please use your own blog for these announcements.

Thank you.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

This one’s going to hurt like Obamahealthcare!

 About this group: “DECEIT OF THE SELFISH MIND” created by Domus Ulixes

 “Freedom of speech is the greatest virtue one has on the Internet.

I will in no way limit this.” —Domus Ulixes

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Disruption of outer purpose can lead to finding your inner purpose and subsequently the arising of a deeper outer purpose that is aligned with the inner.

Re: Are we not just animals at the bottom of the food chain?

Fact remains that I will however demand a civilized manor of expression.
It is important to see that you do not discuss in this forum any more.
Your only questions are the same as the title of the forum discussion.

Furthermore there is no use of the pictures you use.
I do not mind you making a discussion, but like this, you are not inviting others to discuss with you.

You are like a preacher, just preaching, and not discussing.
You are therefore limiting other people's freedom of speech. And are not using it in a civilized manor.

I do not mind you making a discussion, but I would rather see you doing it with question asking provocative questions directed outwards to the groups members. Instead of this daily update of your preaches.

You have a blog for preaches, and you always had. besides your blog is viewable for everyone, and not just the group members. By redirecting you back to your blog, I redirect you to a greater audience.

You either change you posts into a discussion again, and find people to discuss it with. (this might require patience, as some people might not be interested in discussing such thing with you here, this means going to a different group)
Or your updates of your posts are coherent and interacting with one-another, instead of being stand alone preaches.

Either way, this discussion is becomming too big, and I would like to request you to continue it elsewhere.