Gaia: Devotional Nonduality

Re: What would it look like?

http://Robcore.gaia.com — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:43:49 GMT

Everything is the perfect expression of that which it is. Recognizing family is not necessarily dualistic. One plays on a sports team, but it does not mean that one is unable to see through the illusion of opposing sides. Everything occurs as it occurs - even family. It is uncaused (nondualistically, there is no 'this' that prompts a 'that'; everything arises spontaneously of its own). Asserting that the appearance of association with a family is due to familiarity, or weakness of mind, or whatever, is simply false. At best these are hypothetical presumptions based on belief in causality. Karma might be a better way to describe the circumstance.

Of course to say 'everything' arises spontaneously of its own implies plurality, however, singularity/unity is not in competition with separateness. Often on the path of nonduality seekers take on a militant view against what is termed 'duality'...however, no such thing exists which can threaten Truth. This is where the Devotional aspect of the path becomes noteworthy, as Devotion transcends the concerns of the mind, which, like a computer, operates on a binary(dualistic) perceptual basis.

-Rob

Re: What would it look like?

http://jayceeii.gaia.com — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:34:38 GMT

One of the primary practical consequences of the true nondual perspective, is that the idea of a family is almost totally nullified. This is because from a unified mind, you see instantly that there can be no special connection between persons owing to genetics. Perceiving this objective fact, you see that all people are equally deserving of your love, and that the birth circumstances have been something of an accident that threatens to propel you from the unitive state. You look around yourself, and notice that most “family ties” are actually arrangements of convenience, that weak minds could not achieve relationship other than by looking to those nearby, and are only able to form a few mental models for the personalities around them. Further, their minds are unable to differentiate noble traits from ignoble traits, so that they associate with the familiar rather than gravitating towards the noble regardless of birth circumstance. You see that this mental weakness, which cannot value another on the basis of his or her noble attributes, is a ubiquitous flaw in the human domain, which is why all turn their backs on one another in tiny isolated knots of family. No one can even begin to dream about any higher options.

This is how it works, humans grind against one another, and they begin to call it a “close relationship” when they have ground to accustomization. They call it a “deep relationship” because the child has been around so long, the parent has been around so long, but it is only an achievement of a single lifetime, a conquest of the senses. If people had truly attained the nondual perspective, as many seem to claim on this page, instantly you would no longer associate as families, except for the first few years of the child’s life. You would form large cooperative groups, communities of a thousand or more living in daily harmony, working with the joy of the others as your sole reward. Since these groups are not forming, I presume no one has truly reached non-duality, that you still say, “I love those people, but I love my family better.” In all practicality, this is how you live.

Re: What would it look like?

http://vaibhavgupta.gaia.com — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:03:34 GMT

There are many level of consciousness and after relisation we clearly perceive the difference in the level of consciousness. One part of us is only witnessing and other part take contribution in the changes or event.
I think physically there is no difference in an enlighted person and a normal being, the difference is in the level of consciousness.

Re: Nonduality Link Archive

http://Robcore.gaia.com — Wed, 16 May 2007 19:16:15 GMT

I Am That - Talks with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Re: What would it look like?

http://TimD.gaia.com — Fri, 09 Mar 2007 19:52:03 GMT

Corey...

Exactly right about the "except the judgements that I put on things and individuals" and the fact that things just are.

With the term "judgements," you could expand that to concepts and meanings that we have attached to things. One of the early lessons in A Course in Miracles is that (and this might not be the exact wording) "This _____ has no meaning" and that all meanings and values have been assigned by us.

Returning to my post about the door, which I kinda glossed over... (I've mentioned or described the experience a couple of times in forums, but still hesitate at times to get into it for various reasons)...

We know about doors. As babies, before we knew the word door, we learned that they were hinged objects through which people moved to get from one area to another. People walk through them, often turning the knob first, so when they open, one would expect a person to be the "cause" of the opening and anticipate a person to come through - a logical chain of events expected after learning it is the norm. When a door moves, the normal reflexive chain of events is that our brain reaches into what it knows about doors and how they operate to know what to expect, what to anticipate. (Side note: that process is not "experiencing the moment" since it is geared to anticipate the next... a distraction of predicting what may be coming as opposed to living in "the now." It's based in the egoic need to predict/anticipate in order to avoid danger.)

As I exprienced it, thinkingness and conceptualization were quiet, therefore concepts and meanings were set aside. The door wasn't a door, it just was what was seen at face value, a shape - ie. "it just was," without label or meaning. The memory of what was beyond it didn't arise, the concept of how a door functions just wasn't, and the expectation that its opening had any significance wasn't there either. Its opening occurred spontaneously and the emergence of a figure through it was not seen as related by "cause and effect." Both occurances were a spontaneous dance and whether the door coincidentally happened to open on its own or the person pushed it open didn't really matter.

Projection of values and comparisson of what was seen and what was "known" about what was seen dissolved. There was no accessing of memory to process those things, there was just experience and observation. In simply experiencing and observing, mentation falls away to the recognition you pointed out and past and future become irrelevant within non-linear experience.

(By the way, this post kinda brings me out of "post retirement"... haven't really been able to post anything in some time. Just been living life, plus I've got a fried computer at home. Figured I'd drop in - hope my expansion onto what you'd written helps!)

Tim

Re: What would it look like?

http://coreyjentry.gaia.com — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:30:08 GMT

I have asked myself this question many times. It is a good one. I think maybe the answer would be that it would look exactly the same as it does now. Nothing would change except the judgements that I put on things and individuals. For me, being means exactly that, being. It means that I may be "good" or be "bad" but no matter what I am. I think the thing to realize with THE ONE is that you can't escape it. ITs like the finger trying to find the hand. Its all part of the same. I know for me that the only things that have changed as a result me awakening more, more, is that things don't seem to matter as much. For Example, the way I feel and the way others act. Anyway, I could be totaly wrong.

Re: Nonduality Link Archive

http://LoveOneAnother.gaia.com — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:03:24 GMT

Well done once again. Thanks for the resources AGAIN!!!

Re: Nonduality Link Archive

http://Robcore.gaia.com — Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:18:14 GMT

March 10, 2005
The Happy Healers Archives 10/3/2005
D. Hawkins is interviewed by Alex Hermosillo

David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D."
interviewed by Dave McMillan at Strategies for Living
1. Truth vs Falsehood
2. Transcending the Levels of Consciousness

-Rob

Re: Nonduality Link Archive

http://Robcore.gaia.com — Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:12:57 GMT

Dr. Hawkins Satsang excerpts:

1 Differentiating the Spiritual Warrior vs. Ego driven motives
2 Surrendering one's own will and the life and care of others' health to higher wisdom/God
3 On the transmission of God's radiance via a teacher
4 Being the context; not getting caught up on content
5 Healing the earth is God's business | Global Warming
6 "Each day is sufficient to itself"
7 Excerpt from Power vs. Force: Different LoC interpretations of a homeless person
8 Humor, relativism, freedom of speech

-Rob

Re: Nonduality Link Archive

http://LoveOneAnother.gaia.com — Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:56:23 GMT

These are great resources...thanks

Re: Nonduality Link Archive

http://prettzel.gaia.com — Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:13:20 GMT

oh my nerd!

THANK YOU :)

Re: Nonduality Link Archive

http://Robcore.gaia.com — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:37:17 GMT

Nonduality Videos

Ramesh Balsekar 1 2 3 4

David R Hawkins
Consciousness and Addiction Part 1
Consciousness and Addiction Part 2

-Rob

Re: Nonduality Link Archive

http://Robcore.gaia.com — Wed, 13 Sep 2006 23:05:14 GMT

Avesta Zoroastrian Scriptures -Rob

Re: What would it look like?

http://LoveOneAnother.gaia.com — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 23:48:14 GMT

Yeah. Helped a lot. Nice context there. So much so that I don't really have a follow up. Thank you.

Re: What would it look like?

http://TimD.gaia.com — Fri, 01 Sep 2006 08:10:07 GMT

But to return to what Rob said, you see things the same physically, you just process and experience what's around you from a different paradigm.

Re: What would it look like?

http://TimD.gaia.com — Fri, 01 Sep 2006 08:03:19 GMT

ROD...

I think there are different incapacitating experiences at different phases or transitions. When you mention Jesus and Buddha, for example, that's a more extreme physical manifestation of it that probably comes at a higher level than that 600'ish. Doc says that the human body is not yet evolved enough to handle some of these experiences at the highest levels, and that some leave this world for that reason. This implies that at least the physical capacity to handle the energy should evolve in humans over time. In evolution, "function determines form"... meaning, whatever function the body needs and is working toward will be a capacity manifested in form through evolution. The need to move on land (function) produced legs (form) from fins, the need to catch prey (function) produced muscular structures (form) built for speed, the need for defense (function) produced venom, spikes, camouflage markings, etc. (form)

I'd imagine each experience is different. Can incapacitation be completely dodged? Dunno.

The brief experience I mentioned about above was not incapacitating pain-wise and definitely wasn't any "load to be lightened!" It wasn't a burden in any way. There was just a difficulty functioning in a linear way. Who knows? Perhaps it was just the fact that it was a really big and sudden jump up and the suddenness didn't allow for adjustment. If it had been a more gradual climb, would it have been the same? Can't say. It only lasted for a very short time and then I slid back down.

Hawkins has mentioned that adjustment to shifts in LoC can be disorienting at first, like putting on a new pair of glasses. We also know that phases we go through on the MoC pass by with progress and/or time. The Doc says that the incapacitation around 600 is passed by if the Divine Will is that the person progress and "return to" the world of function. In my case, I returned by sliding back down the MoC (making the experience just a peak experience / glimpse), probably because it was MY will to return to function imposed, as opposed to a surrender to God's Will and whatever comes, comes. In that respect, the experience hadn't completely done in my ego (some may say "well OBVIOUSLY!" *lol*), which poked its way back through with a perceived need to function again.

Hope that helps.

Tim

Re: What would it look like?

http://LoveOneAnother.gaia.com — Fri, 01 Sep 2006 05:24:27 GMT

As long as "the dance" is 70's funk, I down with it. ; )

Tim do you think periods of incapacitation occur in every case? Can you experience this state with out incapacitation? I know it happen to Doc Hawk and Ramana Maharishi. Jesus sweated blood and Buddha felt like his bones were being crushed...but I wonder if evolution might come into play and lighten the load as more people effect the overall field?

Thoughts, comments, insults??? ; )

Re: intellect - > experience

http://LoveOneAnother.gaia.com — Fri, 01 Sep 2006 05:09:54 GMT

Nah, thank you. Cool Pod.

Re: intellect - > experience

http://LoveOneAnother.gaia.com — Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:50:32 GMT

Oh yeah I forgot.

MMMMMMMMMMM DELICIOUS!!! It tastes like Everything and Nothing!!!! ; )

Re: intellect - > experience

http://LoveOneAnother.gaia.com — Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:48:11 GMT

sahajanath-

Bingo! The cake and the eating of it are, in the non-dualistic sense, the same One thing. Not being as studied as yourself, I kinda of refer to it as the Common Man's Enlightenment. How does a dood like me get to be a DUDE like Jesus, Buddha, Sri Ramana Maharishi, St. Francis, etc., etc., and I go from there. And that's where I came up with an Oscillation theme. It's the same as many other themes, path, modalities. Just how I language it.

You said:
Reminds me of what Ken Keyes wrote: Perceive everything anyone does or says as if you yourself had done or said it.

Me says:
Yes I love it. I'm working with exactly that from just a slight, slight variation. I use Jesus' Love One Another which I think is exactly the same thing as Keyes' paraphrased quote. Many other sages and high artists have said this over and over again. I'm trying to really get it.

Peace you wonderful people. Love the exchange - broadens the context, ya know.

Love One Another