Explore
Gaia Soulmates
down  About This Group
feminine and masculine faces of the divine

This group is an exploration of the feminine and masculine faces of the divine.

The divine faces of the god and goddess appear back as far as we can see on the ancient horizon of mythology. They have traveled with us in various guises through our religious history and have been scrutinized under the lens of archetypal...(more)
down  About This Room
What has your experience been of these ancient concepts? How do they manifest in your life today? Come share your thoughts and dreams and ideas here.
down  Room Activity
gelfer : old fashioned researcher
gelfer posted a reply to the conversation "Masculine spirituality book" ()
gelfer : old fashioned researcher
gelfer started a new conversation - Masculine spirituality book ()
down  Group Grapevine
 Advertising keeps Gaia free! Interested in sponsoring us?
Resultset_previousprevious thread | next threadResultset_next
threaded | unthreaded | newest first


  Ocean : Ocean

On Jesus and Mary and Histories of Dieties

Ocean said Jan 13, 2007, 4:30 PM:

 

While posting on a Jesus pod on enlightenment, I was forced to go into the long history of our species and our involvement with the religions we create around our concepts of dieties.
I'd like more thoughts on this from others:
 

Blood and Jesus


All this talk about blood and milk invites a discussion about the origins of religions that had begun earlier, but only about the major religions we still have today.
The mother and son diety team survives from very early in our pre-history, and the milk of the mother leads to the blood of the son, alas, usually in all the religions of this kind.
The mother is divinely born, the son divinely conceived and born, the milk flows with perfection and kindness, the son is blissful, gorgeous, innocent, and he's killed, then often torn apart and eaten.
I am speaking of delicate matters, and I want to say that these are old religions, and some of the storeis are brought forth and ascribed to Jesus and Mary.
Here, I am discussing the primal human urges, survival, and the functions of religion.
I reserve Jesus as the embodiment of the highest expression of humanity - Complete Compassion toward All Living Beings.
This is no way takes away from the divinity of Christ, by the way, to me.
It just alludes to the basic closeness to the Earth of all human animals, despite our pretenses.
Jesus in many ways takes over for the concept of Kuan Yin, the Sea of Compassion goddess of the Far East, and for other completely kind, usually female, god concepts.
The fish implies a female element that has always been associated with Jesus, and was seen as two sexes in one in the old days when not much was known of their procreative practices, and possibly as spontaneously procreating as a magical feat.
Let me also say that, even if you believe in Jesus as your Savior, knowing about all these earlier preparations for HIs coming made the reception of Him and his refining of the concepts and embodying them possible perhaps.
He in some ways was seen to combine both sexes in Himself, absorbing what had been seen as feminine traits, and in a natural way.
The concept of mercy, or tenderness, of close relationships  and truly acting as a Father to all, (unlike the capricious and very primitive Yahweh, essentially a tribal God).
The nurturing aspects, the protective ones, combine a mother and father image.
Some say that He usuruped the former goddesses' powers, as even Yahweh had done, however, Jesus only assumed the Compassionate powers.
When the male-dominated, herding socieites came out of the Saudi Arabian peninsula, the Semites, ( and this is a term that is today too often erroneously used only for Jews. Arabs are also Semites, as are the Amharic), who were intensely male directed, took over the goddess' places and powers and replaced them with male dieties, and in the case of monotheism, (which was not, as some think, only the domain of the Semites), a one God concept.
Again I want to stress that allowing Jesus to come into one's heart is the only thing required of a Christian, in the most simple of ways, and this is merely for discussion and interest in the history of religions, offering some background to the scenario of His birth and the conditions of the time. In no way does knowledge of history and anthropology, psychology or philosophy interfere with faith.  Chritianity is a mystery relgion and depends solely on faith.
To continue, we all seek a strong parent figure, and Jesus combined both a perfect mother and perfect father beautifully - offering humans exactly who they needed.
He was perfectly Compassionate, unlike all the other dieties, who were extremely human in their personalities, flawed, fierce, changeable, and moody. While some were household gods and protectors, others were lusty also, and despite the dualistic influence of Zoroastrianism and other major religions, the concept of a satanic figure had not really yet established itself as it would later, and many of the gods and goddesses combined good and bad, but none really offered salvation or the answer to prayers especially of the humble. (The old Osiris-Set combo was played out many times, and something in the human makeup needed to account for evil, looking, as now, outside ourselves for some excuse or answer to it.)
The mother and son god-goddess duo was already a very strong symbol, and had been since stone age times, before we even connected sex with birth, and left over from when we thought women could just decide to procreate almost at will.
Women still during the time of Christ were thought to possess strange powers, and were also thought to be capable of unbridled lust. When the Semites came out of the peninsula, they, obviously from being herdsmen, among others, had connected birth with the male principle, and had dominated females for a long time, contained them, in order that they'd know for sure whose children were issued, and primogeniture, which is another subject, but anyway, being male was important, having male heirs, etc., and yet in Judaism, still the bloodline is handed down through the female line - a long lost remnant of earlier times.
It is even said that a sacred symbol of the female element was in the most hidden of Judaic iconic items they carried with them.
In early times, being male or female, being related, having secrets, holding power, and survival were intimately connected in ways it is difficult for us to fathom.

Tribal strength meant survival, and religions were generally tribal and only related to that certain group, as in “my dad can beat up your dad”, and, as flags are still paraded with us, streaming like ants in formation, invading other lands, fighting wars, nationalism, cultural totems, and all are merely ways humans express their tribalism and means to survival.

Mary, of the Sea, her name implies, relates to Kuan Yin, and the divine birth of the Sun Child is another classic relation we see in many aspects of Christianity as it has come down to us.

These are amazing threads, dating back far into our distant past.

We are even now, not very sophisticated at all.

Nurturance, food, survival - the blood and milk - appear again and again in religious symbology and lore.

Just as old John Barleycorn is one of the group of Plant Gods, so too is Jesus explained in some of His associations.

He feeds, he shares, He gives Himself and people drink “His” blood and eat “His” flesh still.

The terrible torture of Jesus is played out again and again as He is not only a plant God but a flesh God, drawn from cannibalistic urges to eat other beings.

It's a dreadful thing, really, when seen from the outside, and the Native Americans and others have been terrified of Christians due to this blood-drinking and flesh-eating ceremony.

All these primal urges and needs have been tacked onto Jesus' Message, sadly, and have been used to cover up Compassion, which was what He devoted Himself to.

They are fascinating to think about, and I hope that this will open up some minds about how primitive we actually still are, and will inspire people to think harder about His Message, and less about the rituals and traditions that have been piled on top of His life and example.

There are many, many more religions and ideas that have been with us all, in various ways, throughout the ages, and all religions, even the great ones, are foreshadowed in earlier ones.

The basic design is this - we seek in religion several things not provided otherwise:


-Faith that there is something or someone bigger out there to take responsibility for us, for our sins, to turn to in times of trouble, to assist us, and to then carry us up to heaven for an afterlife that will be even better and will also allow us to see our enemies “smited” and punished, or through which we'll be recycled into other, new bodies and will never have to face the idea of oblivion.


-Excuses and ways to white-wash whatever it is we seek to do to others and to feed our addictions, desires, and impulses, however unholy, and someone bigger to hide behind.


-Escape clauses for everything we make of the world, from contemplating our navels and going within of some religions to mercilessly exploiting and warring on other of our own specie and of others with full sanctions and support.


-Tenderness and pity and personal attention, hand-holding and tear-drying, as needed, and complete, total understanding, which is lacking, of course, in human primates such as ourselves, although all the other species except for the other apes we most resemble, the chimps, are capable of complete love.


-Tension-reliever and projection catcher.


-Scapegoat, collective assault on one victim to assuage the wrath, direct it toward another.


-Provoke and invoke the compassionate urge, but channel it ONLY toward specifically-sanctioned targets, like Jesus Himself, essentially owning the kind emotions of the people in order that the populace can be used as a tool for war, or whatever mercenary job the powers require of them.


-Panacea for the masses, to keep them pacified.


Jesus was made to portray many roles, whether by design or later additions or interpretations, and still is.

He was the exemplary parent, the great provider, the scapegoat extraordinaire (the transitional object in the sky who would even bless us while we tortured Him, then redeem us, sins and all, and receive us as no human would ever do, with open arms), the sacrifice to our vices and evil sides who allowed all to go on as a perfect victim, the scholar and hero and perfect being who could not sin made of Compassion for when we wanted that, and most of the fundamentalists today are far more interested in the soldier Jesus who's from Revelations, the most exciting part of the Bible and the most suspect, who will return as a fierce representative of our collective rage and tear it up while we get to watch our enemies being vanquished forever!

He's made to be a catch-all of all the worst parts of humanity, basically!

I'd just like for people to think. To face up to what their desires are, and to examine their beliefs against Jesus' own example of Compassion and His reason for coming - not to excuse us, but to show us how to be completely Compassionate to All Beings!

To be Merciful!

All the good stuff!

And, so you'll know, I am a Christian!

I put forward that we should understand that there is blood on one side, and it's not the holy side, by the way, and Jesus on the other.

Jesus stands for Compassion.

Let's drop the stone age urges and aspire to something higher! To the Compassion that Jesus IS!