Mass Upheavel?

“We have no previous experience with this type of social unrest. The violence of the Vietnam era will look very limited and reasonable in comparison – in the sense that it was an uprising on the grounds of principle, not survival. And the Civil War was a wholly regimented affair between two rival factions. This time, people with little interest in principle beyond some dim idea of economic fairness, will be hoisting the flaming brands out of sheer grievance and malice. By the time Lloyd Blankfein sees the torches flickering through his privet, it will be too late to defend the honor of his cappuccino machine.”

Read the full article at Jim Kunstler's Clusterfuck Nation

Ego's have a tendency to collude based on principle and survival would negate all other rprinciples I can think of.

Credible writers like Kunstler (and he's a liberal) are painting a very precarious picture which may be manifest in the next year.
I sense there may be a spiritual solution, yet it cannot be abstract and must deal specifically with experience (at least, that's how I see it)
I've been watching the dark clouds approach and the many clients I work with are exhibiting unhealthy methods of dealing with anxiety (my caseload has increased to the point were I'm referring many people elsewhere and that has never happened in 25 yrs of work)
I created this room in the hope of brainstorming some solutions to what is approaching or just for a place to share experiences when the storm hits.

Thanks,
mikeS

Re: Mass Upheavel?

the glue that holds the american dream together is disintegrating.  you can see that from the comments made after Kunstler's article.  but what do you expect - it was only a dream anyway.  a spiritual solution?  mmm…  it would be nice to  think so - but i doubt it.  as demonstrated by your observations of having a greatly expanded caseload of people who are not aware (or equipped to deal with the fact) that their “reality” was is not real afterall.
any spiritual solution would appear - as it always does - from within each person… and that often does not happen until suffering occurs through dissillusionment and loss.  so maybe - all of this is a right of passage into maturity.  but as you see through your professional practice - suffering is not a guarentee that anything at all will be learned from it…. depends on the individual.
…so…
what can we do?
we can maintain balance in our own lives… enriching our lives by being open to intimate relations of all sorts (which is not the same as attachment to relationships and is not only sexual/romantic or family relationships).  fostering well-being independant of things.   not just in a physical sense because the body can turn into another “thing” that is obsessed about - i mean a well-being that is centered and matured.  and if we are well in this way - then we will be kind - regardless of whether we are rich or poor.  authentically.  and that can be a trigger for at least some others to access their own center - regardless of their disillusionment and loss.

Re: Mass Upheavel?

Wow, Arpita, I do like your perspective on this question!

This is my favorite section of the forum, Mike.  I hope many come to share their insights here on what they feel is occurring.  I think for many, this coming watershed was seen, like an approaching train, years ago, and so we shouldn't be surprised.  But still…there was always an element of the hope that springs eternal.

One thing I see from the point of practicality from the past, is self-sufficiency and community sustainability, both in one.  Basic skills need to be re-learned.  Organic seeds.  Gardening.  Food preservation.  We've got to learn to feed ourselves again, in the sense that we cannot be dependent on pre-manufactured food as we are.  Urban and communities outside of the city would do well to return to the pantry/kitchen garden.  We need to utilize and hone the skills of repair and making do.  We need to turn off the punditry and choose carefully our source of information (not always easy).

One of the increasing drawbacks is how our children are being educated.  Outside of technological skills, our children are less educated than their grandparents, specifically in the arena of critical thinking skills. Here is a link from the Whole Earth Review: John Taylor Gatto - some interesting observations to take as you will, but I think he has something to say on which to ponder.

Of course, I think the componet of spirituality cannot be underestimated, because it is going to exist, and hopefully we can gather in an an ecumenical spirit.  The alternative is just to fall prey to another dogmatic schemata.

But what I would really like to ask is your take on a question I once asked a fellow Gaia member.  At what point, do you think, that the people, say from ancient Rome, became congnizant, as a collective, that the empire had fallen?  And more recently, the German people in mid-Twentieth Century. When did they became aware, collectively, that their society had irrevocably changed?  My friend on Gaia said he thought it happened when the people came to the realization that they had to think for themselves.  I found this to be an important answer, with many profound implications.

I see the last two great watersheds, of the sociatal variety, as having occurred between the time of the French Revolution in 1789 up to the Kennedy Assassination in 1963, and from that event  to the present.  I think when things escalate rapidly over a period of time, that is when a change to a whole new era will inevitably occur, although I suspect this change will not take the century and more between the last one.  But anything can be a precurser.  Krakatoa could blow and change the entire atmosphere as we know it for 10 years, as has been speculated now as the “Dark Age” that melded into the slow world of Medieval society and invariably arrived into the Renaissance et al.

Sorry to go on.  The practical and the curious often merge.  I think there are so many variances.

Peace :)

Re: Mass Upheavel?

Oh good grief!

John Taylor Gatto is not reporting on and critiquing the public school system. He's critiquing public life!

Why haven't I read this before? It's perfect. It's a perfect display of the finite game in which minds are indoctrinated to conform to predetermined outcomes and any deviance from those outcomes (norms) is measured as failure. And who wants to be defined as a failure?

Everybody should read this guy because he has succinctly, and sadly, defined our future.

Thanks Nahnni!
mikeS

Re: Mass Upheavel?

That, he surely is.

:)

Re: Mass Upheavel?

That, he surely is…brilliant in his insight.

I had meant to add. 

Oy~

Re: Mass Upheavel?

oh yes, oh yes.
Gatto wrote a book that i read last year - called “Dumbing Us Down”… well written - it expands on this little review you posted Nahnni.
I think it should be required reading for all highshcool students.
After i read it - i gave it to my 19 year old daughter to read.  I hope she “got it”.

Re: Mass Upheavel?

This has been one of my major meditations for years.  There is a tide coming in, it seems inevitable. What can any of us do to stop a force that has been building for years before we were even born?

I see the current problem thusly: Societies spring up and always have, around certain ideals. Time has told, in tale after tale, wither you read the bible or study Mayan ruins how these great advanced civilizations of days long past rose up around flawed ideals and ideaologies, and like a house of cards stacked up on a shakey card table, if the foundation these vast and amazing cultures are built upon is unsteady, they will eventually crumble. Life is ebb and flow, studying it for even a little while you can see that. Things get built up, they are imperfect, they are distroyed, providing the catalyst for regrowth in new directions.

The horrors we feel aproaching now, I don't think are particularly new in the history of man kind and the planet, more likely our species memory is so short, and even our grandest chatches of knowledge are so fragile, that the warnings of days gone by are lost as myths, legends and cautionary tales told word of mouth eaten away by enthropy. If you've ever played the telephone game as a child, you'll understand what I mean.

To get back to talk about or current plight, and if there is a spirtual way to solve it. I believe there actually is. I don't think there's an actual way to stop it all together, from what I've read and come to understand, these things are natrual and clensing, but how tramatic and tragic they are, can be decided. Like an incoming tide, if you see it coming, you can hop with it, and ride it, or stand, unaware and be bowled over. I think at this point, it's the duty of those who see it coming to be ready to hop with the wave, and help as many others as we can to do the same.

How? I believe the current problems with our socieity go back to the idea that humans have no personal power. We believe our power stems from things. We are constantly trying to get things, own things, use things to get more things so that we can accumulate things. We need things outside ourselves to be happy, and have become dissassociated with the rest of the world and each other.

The spirtual, no matter what form it takes, generally centers around realizing our connectedness, to other things. These ideas form from study and observation, communication with others and generally require pratice, patience, and expecting results that are beyond the immediate. Seeing a broader picture, expanding our awareness through learning, and gaining persepective.

People want peaks. We crave them, but we lack the persepective to truely understand that the universe is always in balance, while elastic, what you pull from one place leaves less in anouther. The current society has built many differnt ways to try and artifically maintain one peak. This is unnatrual, and the more you streach that peak, the bigger the back lashing will be when it must rebalance itself, like a pedulium.

Taking substances to maintain good feelings. Building machinces to provide endless entertainment. Compartmentalizing people into specialties to push deeper into certain feilds of study. Homoginizing food, artificially manurfaturing it and impregnating it with flavor. All these things and more we are starting to see is causing cracks and fissures, as the natrual laws of the world press to pull things back to balance. You can run against a bungee cord only so long before it snaps you back the other way. Right now we are sensing the tension in that cord. There's only a few steps left before the snap comes.

We still have time to natrually lessen the problem. Put on protective equitment, warn others, and try to relieve the tension ourselves, making it not so powerful, and if enough people become aware of the situation and start to work together, we can walk back towards center lessening it when it finnally comes. That of course would require a massive effort of many souls, to the point where there are more with this belief than those who hold the current ideals. I don't believe that's impossible. If humans have proved anything over time, it is our own amazing ablitity to achieve anything we put our minds too.

The best way to help would be to become aware of your own effect on the world, understanding that your perspective effects everyone around you. Live your ideals, this is the greatest teacher anyone could ever ask for. If a man sees you smiling despite hardships, he will want to know why. Make other's aware of their power to effect change, of their own power to be and do something postive, with out outside influences. You don't need to be Jesus or Ghandi or Bhudda to do this. Every time you refuse to promote a negative thought process or ideal you are helping.  Every moment you choose simply to be happy, no matter the situation you are helping. Every moment you choose to enrich yourself through knowledge and personal understanding you are helping.

Do unto others as you'd have others do unto you. Try hard not to judge, but see people as making differnt choices than you. Make no justifications of any kind. Every negative action that was ever perpatrated was justified by the person doing it. I truely believe, if you attempt to do this even only once a day, you have lessened the load, taken a hard feeling out of the equation, that would have compounded. If you have not the strength to push back against the tide, stand against it, provide a shelter for those around you and that you influence, know it or not. If you can not find the will to smile, choose then to at least not frown, or become angry.

Ultimately it is our feelings that drive us. Feelings are a choice we make not dictated by outside influence. You can cry at a birthday party, and laugh at a funeral, everyone chooses how to interpret every situation.

I know this may seem very vague, and less substantial than other answers, like build a bomb shelter, or throw out your computer before it becomes self aware, or vote demacrat, but I believe these situations are sympthoms of a deeper problem that must be delt with before true change can occur.  You can cut off a wart, and it may seem your skin is clear for awhile, but if you don't pull it out at it's root, it will continue to grow back. Our problem is, no one can come together to agree where or what that root is. It has gotten to the point were people are to busy argueing over it's were abouts to even get to the point where they can do anything about it.

The problems come from inside ourselves, until we can realize that, and choose to not continue them on our own, understand the effect we all have on the world, true change will never come. Times like we are coming into provide the catalyst for awareness of this fact in many, but not all. Enlightenment as well as change come from with in and only we can choose to walk the path. You can beat a trail, you can mark the way, you can suggest the direction to others but they have to walk it.

It is my personal belief that the world is a playground for the soul. These massive pendulium swings are like the dips and rises in a roller coaster. Our souls travel them all with glee. Experincing the intensity of emotions, and various situations, the way you might went you read a book, or watch a movie or play a video game. Excitiement requires chaos, strife, hardship, challenges. From this mess will rise grand villians, and also powerful heros to fight them, and each of us playing our various parts in between. As long as we as souls crave this excitment, these events will always play out. When people suggest they want to be a hero, they never stop to think for a moment there must also too be villians. When they say they crave peace and happiness, they never stop to think there must be times where there are not to define them. In all things, contrast is required to give definition, other wise, things just are.

I could go on and on, and I feel like I might be getting to into my own personal belief system at this point so I will stop. I think I've given enough for people to chew on, mull over and come back with their own suggestions and ideas. I hope I didn't overwelm, or come across too biased.

Re: Mass Upheavel?

Hey Padric!

interesting stuff here indeed!

The horrors we feel aproaching now, I don't think are particularly new in the history of man kind and the planet…”

Yep, gotta agree with that. As I see it, we have a compulsive need for repetition. It's interesting how the current economic collapse is so eerily similar to others, particularly 1929. Do we ever really learn from our mistakes? The ego-self becomes attached to modes of experiencing itself and it resists mightily new ways of experience.

and if enough people become aware of the situation and start to work
together, we can walk back towards center lessening it when it finnally
comes. That of course would require a massive effort of many souls, to
the point where there are more with this belief than those who hold the
current ideals. I don't believe that's impossible

Well, maybe not impossible, but sometimes I feel damn near. Our collective level of engagement is negligible. We can't make rapid value changes you are highlighting as long as we continue to be alienated from one another. To me this is the first step to any collective “awakening.”

Our problem is, no one can come together to agree where or what that
root is. It has gotten to the point were people are to busy argueing
over it's were abouts to even get to the point where they can do
anything about it.

Yes. Not only can we not come together to agree, but we fail to come together, period. Conflict can be productive and disagreement can be engaging, if the goal of remaining engaged together is the foundation of our involvement together. For me, the only goal is not to disengage. For me, all things can be solved if we all participate in seeking the solution.

Ultimately it is our feelings that drive us. Feelings are a choice we
make not dictated by outside influence. You can cry at a birthday
party, and laugh at a funeral, everyone chooses how to interpret every
situation.

So true. But it seems to me that feelings have but one purpose and that is sharing. Share your feelings and be known! That's what we all want is to be known, to be deeply engaged in the experience of living with others.

Enlightenment as well as change come from with in and only we can choose to walk the path

Yes, and I think there is a collective “within” where we can all meet together.

When people suggest they want to be a hero, they never stop to think for a moment there must also too be villians

Yes! and aren't we all both?

I hope I didn't overwelm, or come across too biased.

No way! I love swimming in the deep end, as opposed to wading around on the surface. I think you'll find others here feel the same way.

Welcome to the pod and hope you continue to think out loud, sharing you thoughts and ideas with us all!

Peace Brother Padric!
mikeS

Re: Mass Upheavel?

Hello Padric~

You have interesting things to say.  I hope you will return here to Fully Engaged again, and share some of your reflections.

Blessings~