Subscription Survey!

Have you taken the survey yet? What do you think? Did we leave anything out? What would you like to see?

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It is quite disappointing but not at surprising that Zaadz would go the way of the rest of the U.S.: Commerce first, service somewhere down the list. A tiered experience also smacks a little of elitism. That's no surprise either, I suppose.

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gag me
a few years integrity
will reresh

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Oh, Dan. Why? What's out of integrity about this?

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made me feel funny
have to interupt dreams
wanted non change
still digesting
love is the answer
i am dan, judge

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Ah, but of course… all change requires digestion, and I certainly wouldn't want anyone to feel surprised or left out by this next phase. That said, this is Zaadz. We're here to be the change, and to embrace it. This is all a big exercise, I think, in expanding our hearts and mind and perspectives, and I'm so grateful to have all of you pushing and prodding and exploring on the way.

Made you feel funny in what way?

(I agree; love is the answer… and I do love this place.)

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refresh

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Tim!

Hey. No fair. :) When we put ads on the site (someone has to pay to keep this business running… ) there was an outpouring of requests from within the community for us to offer an ad-free version; people said they'd be more than willing to pay a few bucks to keep the site free from advertising. I completely understand this, and I'm glad that we're finally going to be able to offer such a service. To my mind, though, it seems only logical to add in a few more benefits for those who are going to be paid members…. why not toss in some more upgrades to show our appreciation?

Could you say more about the commerce first, then service? I still feel our service is coming first; the basic site will always be free, and how can service and commerce be separted in this model? Also, we've been clear from the start that Zaadz is an elite service… you had to apply to get in, no? We're for those who want to change the world–and who believe in conscious capitalism. This is a community of people who 'get it.' We've been fielding charges of elitism from the beginning. :)

Anyway. I certainly hope you don't leave! Again, we'll always reamin a free social networking service! The upgrades (be they to have a tree planted in your name or to sign up for a series of ecourses) are add-ons, and only for those who want them.

And thank you, hugely, for helping to grow my own mind and heart with this response. I'm glad you're here and so glad you care enough to write in.

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I thought it was an okay survey. Sort and simple at least.

I parsed over the explantions without really absorbing them, and went directly to the list of questions.

I thought there was a question missing - or rather, a level missing. Like I said, I didn't really study the extra services proposed - but I knew that $5 a month, $60 a year, was a price point that made me balk - because I couldn't imagine a service so useful I'd leap at paying $60 for the priviledge of generating content here.

The price point I thought was missing was $15 a year - roughly the price of a magazine subscription.

But, even at that, I did click the freebie choice.

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Thank you, Bill. And I'm with you; I like the idea of a one-stop, pay-for-a-year (at a discount!) option. I think we'd want all these having some sort of one-fell-swoop payment plan, but you make a good point by having something at more of a magazine subscription level. I still don't see the $5 as being that prohibitive–again, it's two Starbucks stops, or 16 cents a day (I feel I lose that in the cracks of my car seat anyway)–but I can understand, too, how that does add up.

Good stuff.

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Thanks for the options.
Here is my post to someone's blog post regarding the survey.


When Gaiam took over we already had the question answered that ZAADZ will always
be free. i can't find the link right now, but i'll look around for it and post it if i locate it.

what is being brought up today are just options being thrown around.
like paying $5 for an ad free page and higher prices for other things.
they are asking us what we want, how we feel. not threatening us to pay up or leave.

personally, i don't have a business to promote, or anything to sell. so i just come to Zaadz for the social fun of it. but i can see how people with business intent would want to up their options here.
i am seeing ads for Gaiam on TV now and all over the net. so of course they are going to want to expand. that's what capitalism is about.

and WE'RE HERE FOR FREE.

i click on the ads on each page just to give them a boost.
why not, it's painless.


BTW… I LOVE YOU SIONA!
Thanks for everything  you & the team do!

XOXO

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Ladybear?

Thank you. Deeply. :)

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Siona,

I'm glad you say you were always planning to offer tiered options - since the casual way that survey response #4 was worded didn't seem to reflect the positive feeling I had about having those choices.

I was more attracted to some of the $15 - $20/mo. benefits than others, so I'm watching with interest to see what is offered and in what combination/s.

For example, I think there are other sites and organizations (Ken Wilbur's Integral Institute, Heartland Circle, etc., etc.) who offer courses, videos, interaction with visionarys, etc. and to my way of thinking it would be a better use of Zaadz' resources to just provide links to those folks and focus your energies on your own unique contribution to this new world we're building together.

What I mean by that are things like developing the infrastructure to make the waves of 'blessed unrest'  as Paul Hawkins calls it (individual people and small and large organizations that are already doing all kinds of amazing things to help make the world a better place) more visible to us here; to better support us in finding each other and collaborating effectively on the projects and ideas we're passionate about. I was excited by indications that you're imagining some new features along those lines…

I was also curious to know more about what you're imagining as the zPro Toolz benefits for “growing your conscious business”, and how that might weave in with what I was talking about above.

I think Zaadz is amazing, and it's not a contradiction in my eyes to see that you (or Gaiam) are looking at ways to make it financially sustainable as you go forward. As far as I can see you're handling this transition with integrity and grace.

Love and Light,

Amy

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Amy? This is beautiful. Thank you.

I think you might really appreciate the ideas we've been discussing around a 'resonance engine'; that is, something to make it easier to find those people and resources and emergent happenings with which you're meant to discover, and who have some kind of message or important connection to offer you. (It's hard to put this into words, but I'm sure you know what I mean… I love those strange 'coincidences' and I love how Zaadz already facilitates them, and I get excited about being able to do more in that area.)

I'd love, too, for this forum to flow into a possible discussion of some of those features that you mentioned, though a part of me is just as excited about getting to surprise the community a bit with more little additions; it was fun, say, unrolling those status updates and the shout-out features, and I can't imagine that anyone would be disappointed by anything that helped spread joy and appreciation in a community. But I digress… :)

Thanks again, and by all means keep sharing. It's lovely to hear your voice here.

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Commerce is service…  An exchange of value…

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You left out the choice to have the zPro site with ads still on it (which I don't mind), and not to charge, or to charge a minimal ($5.00 per month) amount, and I really don't want or need all the other stuff you added in.  I already get my fill of all the internet guru's in other ways, and I'm not looking for a lover, and I pretty much can find all the people I want to associate with, without someone pointing them at me or vice versa.

When I signed up for zPro, it was with the intention, as I've stated elsewhere on this forum, of having my Newsletter out of Zaadz, and thereby introduce my potential clients to Zaadz, adverts and all.  I don't really do a huge amount of selling anything through my zPro page as it now stands (without the promised Newsletter), and that probably wouldn't change were you to finally bring it back.  Therefore it certainly isn't worth it for me to plunk out $30-$40 per month for what you had offered, because it is of no use to me.

Guess a lot of my friends were right.  I voted for leaving Zaadz just the way it is, and if I have to give up the zPro page, well, presently WITHOUT the Newsletter feature, it's only pretty window-dressing anyways.

Very disappointed……

Gem

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Gem? I'm so sorry to disappoint! I think there might be a misunderstanding, though; I'll try and clarify.

You're completely right–we didn't mention the ad-supported zPro option in the survey! Apologies for that; the list was geared more toward community members who weren't business owners. Still, I see no reason why we wouldn't be able to do this; after all, it's not that different from an ad-supported Zaadz.

So thank you for pointing that out.

(Thank you, too, for sharing your story about zPro and the newsletter and your interest there. I know, personally, that this gets me all the more determined to finish that particular piece of the service, and get it running. And I know I'm not the only one on the team who feels this way.)

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You lost me with the first sentence:  “As you know, we've been thinking for some time now about offering the option of an upgraded Zaadz: an enhanced, ads-free, subscription version of the site for those of you truly committed to being the change.”

The implication is that if one is truly committed then one WILL pay for the subscription. So, if one does not pay for the subscription is one less committed?  I have been asking myself for the past few months what it is about zaadz that is not inspiring me to participate more.  The essence of the above statemet hits the nail on the head although I cannot quite find the words for it myself.  A sense of elitism? Dunno.  I also had mixed feelings about the Gaiam acquisition and decided to keep an open mind.  This proposed change or addition does not help me stay neutral on that topic. 

This is my two cents for now.  In the meantime I shall go back and read the survey completely, will probably opt to buy a subscription if it truly is worth it in my mind, will continue to tell my friends about zaadz, and hopefully will find the pods where I feel a connection and proceed to MAKE some connections.

Respectfully,

Mimi

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Oh, yikes. You're right; I can completely hear that tone in my words there. Thanks for the reflection and for pointing that out. Do you think it would be best to go change it, or is altering the survey after-the-fact a little weird?

As someone who does get a bit passionate about the idea of conscious capitalism, I do think there's something to making one's values explicit: if I value something, I'll want to demonstrate that by literally expressing that value. I pay for services I care about because I appreciate them, and I'd feel strange about using something for free or feeling as though I weren't allowed to demonstrate this appreciation. It was this, I think, that motivated that sentence. I hope this helps explain the other side. :) (Also, I completely get that there are other ways of expressing value than with one's wallet; it's just a more convenient mode, as money is something we as a society has agreed upon as valuable.)

Thank you, deeply, though, for both hanging in there despite that intitial phrasing, and for keeping an open mind about Gaiam. And, too, once more, for reflecting back your view to me. I'm grateful.

Deep bows,
Siona

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Hi Siona,

Thanks for the reply.  I don't think it is necessary to redo the survey.  I do appreciate the clarification.  Upon reading the survey I realized if I did go for the paid subscription I would probably go for option 3. One of the other options offers subscriber only pods.  This turns me off.  It promotes separatism. Zaadz is about “bringing together.”  I read one of your other replies about  Zaadz being elitist from the get go. This was evidenced by the fact that we had to fill out applications.  That's all fine and dandy but once people have gone through the “elitist application process” (please read that with a tongue in cheek and a winking eye!) why is there further need to be elitist and promote separatism with pay to participate pods?

Have a good night!

Mimi

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Beautiful point, Mimi. I'd still venture that even now there's some 'elitism' to the pods–it's certianly possible for people to elect to have private ones, and I see no problem with that, just as I think it would be completely fair to provide an additional space for supporting members of Zaadz–but I understand your view about the separatism. Would it help at all to point out that the 'elitism' would not be necessarily exclusive, in that anyone who wanted to could join (in the same way that anyone who wanted to could commit to the site's values)? I know that there would be a financial cost involved, but I can't imagine 16 cents a day being that difficult to find.

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Hello,

There is a difference between private/public pods and subscribe/free pods.  Almost all the networking sites offer the ability to create your own group/pod/network. That is a usual part of the game that offers PRIVACY more so than ELITISM.  While breaking down the cost to a mere 16 cents a day is a good way to make the cost seem less prohibitive, it is also presumptuous that everyone here can comfortably fit it into their budget.  There are varying levels of disposable income represented on this site.  You saying that you can't imagine 16 cents a day being hard to find.  This leads me to believe that you have been fortunate in life to not have known financial hardship.  If this is true, I am very happy for you. I just ask that you/Zaadz be sensitive to the idea that not everyone here has had the same experience.  At this point in my life, yes, 16 cents a day is easy to gather up as some days I visit Starbucks TWICE! However, I remember the days, in my 20's when I was lucky to visit Starbucks twice a WEEK!

I may have gone off on a tangent. Anyway, you and or Zaadz seem pretty committed to this idea of subscription pods.  As other people have in this thread have asked, if the decision is already made, then why not just do it already? 

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…good point Mimi…I imagine that there are 3rd world countries where the living income is 16 cents a day…

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ah, I agree with that.  I don't like the wording of that sentence, either.  I must say it doesn't help those feel better about the Gaia take over that were originally a little wary of it.  Myself included.

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Hi, Gang.

I want to wish Zaadz the best.  I enjoy being here, and I would probably pay $5 for the ability to design my own space.   Just let me add that I'm contemplating something beyond the options for Zpro which appear to be pretty limited.

However, what I'd like to ask for the most is that we receive no more gadgets until something is done about page load times, eeeek messages, and what I guess are server and data base errors.  Again, I'm very happy to be here, but if I'm going to pay I think Zaadz should address and solve those basic problems first.

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Probably the most astute comment yet. Thank you. :)

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I would not mind paying $5-$30 a month for zaadz, cause I happen to love the atmosphere and the people I have met here are REAL for a change.  But my budget is getting smaller these days instead of larger.  Expenses for just living are going up and no way my $20 a year increase is keeping up with it.  I barely make it as it is with a roommate.  But if the cash ever cuts loose for me, I will become a paid subscriber.  Keep on keeping on, as you are enlightening the rest of the world.

Blessed Be~
in Namaste~
)O(
Dana Lefey Maeve

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Dana! Thank you. I'll cross my fingers that your magazine explodes and that your design business flourishes. (And I can't help but ask, but do you market yourself much online? I think you yourself come across as so terribly real–as you put it–as well, and I'd love to hear the story of how you got into the work you do and what got you started. I can't imagine I'm the only one who'd want to listen. :)

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How I arrived at this destination is a very long story, and not very pretty.  To answer your question; no I do not market myself much online as I have too much going on to take myself that seriously.  I am currently on full disability, with not much hope of returning to the working world any time soon, so everything I do is helping other people for very little or no compensation at all. 

I spend 75% of my time working for IYN, the Invisible Youth Network that feeds homeless, abused, run-a-way/abandoned children and we are working towards providing what we call the 'Invisible Youth” with a home to get them off the streets, teaching them basic life skills so that they can survive on their own and care for themselves some day. 

I am compiling all the necessary documentation for our by laws, articles of incorporation and business plan.  Though I wear many more hats than Co–Chairman as we build our board of directors and organization to enable us to apply for and win grant awards to fund our youth center. 

I have a passion for helping these children and youth because I have been homeless, abused, hungry and alone as a child and as an adult.   No child deserves to live in the streets nor do they deserve to have their innocence stripped from their psyche by abusive institutions, cold empty laws and cruel humans.

Art with Words has published my poetry and I wrote a column entitled The Writer's Horoscope for the last three years and due to the publisher's health, she has dropped it in my lap to evolve into an online interactive ezine that I am still at the drawing board stages for designing the website and implementing that project.

I learned how to do website design to learn new software and have a portfolio building with references from my customers and colleagues that I have assisted over the last three years.  I have some formal training, but most of my accumulated knowledge about the internet and web presence has been learned by reverse engineering web pages and learning in the process how to design and code with html, java script, bbc, php and now have set my mind to learning flash.   I have all the software, and if I ever stop learning, I may as well be dead anyway is how I feel about it.

My favorite time is spent with my two children, Aspasia and Aricia; discovering their world on their level.  Other than that, I write epic prose in rhyming verse / poetry, children's stories, articles and I journal (not to be confused with blogging) constantly.  My favorite thing to do with my graphics applications is to make blinkies.   It is my only other addiction besides my kids.

I do take time out for meditation 1-3 times daily, depending on how much I feel out of balance or in balance for that matter. 

Now that I have perfectly bored you to tears, thank you for asking and have a blessed day and safe journeys.

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i wish i were able to commit more time to zaadz at this point in time…amazing that so much time has flown past since i joined, and i have precious little to show or prove my confidence and optimisim for this community's ideals.
having said that, i do believe in it, a good friend of mine is employed by zaadz as well, and i have high hopes for zaadz becoming stronger in the coming years….if…..
the reality is, i suspect, that a great many people here have opted out of much of the societal attitudes and belief systems that are currently wreaking havoc on all that many/most of us here hold true-and the malignancy known as lucre, coin, the 'almighty' dollar, et al, is one thing that is held in extremely low regard in so many areas. reality says however, that we are still at its dictates, so we need to accept certain realities and adjust to them in as least painful a fashion possible.
can zaadz survive/grow without charging any kind of fee? can it do so thru introducing adverts from similarily minded peoples/businesses and, for those who choose to not want such adverts, they can opt out by paying a nominal charge? and for those who would like, or can afford to seek greater involvement/interaction with named speakers, etc, pay for that opportunity?
in other words-all the perks and benefits of being a member of zaadz are retained at the (not so) basic level, with everything else becoming a 'for a fee' option…?
it probably sounds somewhat presumptuous for a currently not active member to speak out in this manner-but my intentions are to become much more active in the near future-my book is written, the world of employment beckons, and my art is calling…

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Of course 5$ is ok, and so on….of course it’s conscious capitalism….of course Zaadz is such a great place…that changes the wolrd…

I was ready to pay for an add free Zaadz, if it was an entitty of itself. Now it’s not anymore.

And there are more and more adds, and I get more and more e-mails from Siona wanting to give me an offer for a spiritual cinema or something - and the joke about the Yoga mat, will probably not be a joke anymore in a couple of months.

Zaadz is changing. From a free, idealist, spiritualy enclined community it is now turning into something else: a pay for, “spiritual” business oriented place. But Zaadz is always going to be free! Of course part of it will be…but of what interests if the ideal and the absence of hierarchy is not there.

This place of spiritually enclined people has been taken over by business…and the zpro feature did already change the dynamic. It changed the dynamic, because one can not share the same ideas in a pod, if one is working under it’s professional “persona”, as opposed as one’s private persona.

More later,

Patrick

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Some more,

So basically, we're going to witness a “two gear” Zaadz. The free one, will have less features and we'll have to pay with our brains by looking at those dynamics commercials which are already here on your right page now.

Then, if we really want to change the world (sorry Sonia, it was to big), we'll have to pay in order to do that. No more commercials - you can buy your peace of mind! It'll have more feature and so on.

This two gear approach is a worldwide trend in many domains: insurances, taxes and so on. So Zaadz is adapting and is not different anymore.

It also goes against the “free internet” approach. You are certainly all familiar with the ideas of  many companies wanting to create a two gear internet: we'll have to pay according to the data flows. Those companies have failed for the moment, but the fight is going on.

One amazing feature of Zaadz and most of the net is that it's free. It's such a gift to humanity….free knowledge, free sharing.

You may call it what you want, conscious capitalism or whatever else, but to my view, Zaadz has certainly chaged the world, but mostly, Zaadz is now on its way to be changed by the world and to ajust to the ambiant Meme: business on spirituality

Another thing and then I'll be done:

Those adds on Zaadz are so unproductive… I wonder how many are like me: I'm just fed up of seeing Sharma and Genpo' s face, bleep store or whatever else! It's just creating aversion for these people. No I don't click on these adds, on the opposite, it tends to make me drift appart from the guys. I am not resisting these adds, it's just spontaneous aversion. I mean why does a zen master have to buy space to go “commercial”? This is terribly paradoxical. Does he need monney? Fame? I just don't know…I'm puzzled!

Anyway,

Be all well,

Patrick

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Hi!
firstly, i hate Gaia/m. The first time i visited the site (upon reading the announcement), i didn't like it. And today, i thot i'll take a look again. And really really didn't like it.
The richness and depth of zaadz is just not there (for me).
It seems to be all about promoting more and more stuff. Perhaps i'm missing something??

that brings me to the survey. didn't particularly mind it. having read lots of siona's posts until now, i still trust the honesty that comes across.
having said that, i'm sure zaadz will change/is changing - and it's moving in one direction - towards becoming commercial.
While it was still zaadz, it was not so much in the face (atleast for me). Perhaps i'd learnt to ignore the ads on the side. 
However, subscription-only pods (did i get that one right?) don't jell with me at all, and seem to go against the spirit of zaadz.
Gradually, i'm coming to a point of letting go of zaadz.
Well, change is a part of life!

Hopefully, the spirit of zaadz will continue, or maybe Brian will come up with something equally good/better, sometime in the future. To be honest, i don't see this happening in gaia (honestly, it sucks) at all.

I have given the merger some time - hoping for the dust to settle down, and certainly don't like what's emerging.

peace and blessings to all!

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Hate?? Strong words! What did Gaiam ever do to you?

I understand, though, if it's not really your kind of company.

(And oh, goodness. Thank you so much for your kind words about trust. I feel I need to say something more about that, because this means so much. For me, that sense of trustedness and care is merely a reflection of how much I trust all of you. I trust this community to continue, and to keep testing its edges and exploring the world and for all of us to support each other in being our most authentic selves. So again, thank you, but thank the rest of this amazing group, too.)

I'm curious as to why the subscription-only pods would go against the spirit of Zaadz, given that the whole site is application only, and curious, too, about why you're 'hopeful' that the spirit of Zaadz will continue…. when it's up to US (including you!) to make that happen. :) If you leave, Zaadz will change. If you stay, it'll likely change, too (a part of life, as you wrote!) but at least YOU'LL be a positive, contributing part of that change…

So I, for one, hope you stay.

And as to Gaiam, well, where else could I get my own wind turbine? :)

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Patrick.

Thanks for the richness of your thoughts.

A few things. We've always been clear that Zaadz is a business, and that we're here to make money; it's in the letter introducing our mission, and that mission certainly hasn't changed! We're here to change the way people use and view money, and to change the way business is done, and perceived. We're here to be open and transparent about our decisions and thoughts and approached.

I'd question, a bit, the 'free internet' approach. Sure, most of us don't pay the sites we visit, but that same majority have paid for our computers, and pay a monthly fee for online access, and we also allow (or force) the sites to be paid for by others–usually, in this case, those giant businesses than can affort to spend millions on advertising. Being online involves many hidden costs. The fact that we're pushing these costs into consciousness and asking ourselves to think a bit about who is actually paying for these services is part of our mission of raising awareness in general. Money–to my mind at least!–is one of those big 'issues' for people, and I'm sure many of us would rather not think about the topic.

But why is this? And need it necessarily be so?

I'm sorry you feel that way about the ads; I certainly don't mind seeing Genpo's kind face! Why would seeing those create a spontaneous aversion? (If this IS the case, I should probably take my own little icon down. ;) To me it makes complete sense that someone like Genpo Roshi would want a sponsorship slot here; he's trying to reach those who might resonate with his message, and this community seems an ideal match. But that's just me. :)

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Michael? I always feel a little torn when I hear people say that they wished they had more time for the site. To my mind, there's no need at all for the spirit of Zaadz to exist only in a virtual arena; if you're out being busy in the world and spreading your beautiful light out there, isn't that exactly in alignment with the ideals here?

The one area I'd gently nudge at in your answer is your conception of money as being a 'malignancy.' If you go and read the mission statement and the principles upon which this site was founded, you'll see that we put capitalism at the top of the heap; we believe its wholly possible to transform the existing economy into one one that's more service centered, and more heartful, and more characterized than love and abundance than by fear. There's nothing wrong with money itself–it's just a convenient system of exchange. :)

And goodness! You're SPOT on. We're certainly not going to mandate that people pay! Again, the basic Zaadz option will always be free. These subscription services are just meant for those who want more, or who want to opt out of the ad-supported version. Also, not presumptuous at all… the fact that you're writing here demonstrates to me that you care a great deal about what happens here, and that, to me, is more than enough.

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thank you siona for inviting my opinion. i had a look at the survey and considered it thought provoking and well within the scope of a business venture such as gaiam. however, it strikes me as disingenuous for the original zaadz mission and vision ideas to become a ‘ranked’ subscription service. it would seem the notion that all can have free access while others who choose to pay more can have more access is delimiting the original intent of the mission and vision. as most folks in the world of cyberspace, i already pay for this much access and to go deeper into debt for this more rarified access seems dangerous. i’m reminded of jeremy rifkin’s book, the age of access: the new culture of hypercapitalism, where all of life is a paid-for experience … reminds me of what one sage person wrote as a crtique of his book, “an eerie vision of a world of gatekeepers paying each other for access to nearly every aspect of human life…”
respectfully,
dave

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Dave!

Thank you, even more, for having the heart and the concern to respond.

Again, as I've been writing, how is it disingenuous for Zaadz to become a ranked subscription service? We've been clear about our feelings about money and capitalism (namely, we believe it's not an inherently flawed system, and we believe it's wholly possible to transform the way we view and use money) from the beginning, and too, we've been 'ranking' people from the very start: Zaadz is still application only. We're wholly open to those who agree to our values of respectfulness and compassion and trust and kindness, and have no qualms about booting those who don't uphold them.

Instead of pointing the finger at some new hypercapitalism, I'd far rather get in and transform the system. What's wrong with making money doing what it is you love to do? What's wrong with rewarding people for doing work (or providing services or creating products or doing art or serving a meal) that you value? To my mind, I'd rather shift my own understanding of what is valuable, and what I value, so that I'm spending my money on those things that are in alignment with my beliefs. If we did this as a society, and started putting money to things like education, and open spaces, and cleaner technologies… well, maybe capitalism wouldn't have such a bad rap.

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Thank you, Siona for your reasonable response to my previous posting. I offer my apologies if I offended you. It appears I’ve missed the point. You are also completely correct in reminding me that zaadz has always ranked its members (via the original invitation).

I came to this discussion after receiving an invitation on my personal email to take a survey. I did the survey (which was as I said in my earlier post well within the scope of business … Gaiam included) and then I was directed to this discussion group. After reading the opening question about the survey my response was simply to voice a personal apprehension about the escalating costs and proliferation of gates to access in the larger socio-economic world (and by extension the zaadz environment).

Of course zaadz needs to make money to operate. I sincerely hope that can be achieved in a way that preserves equitable access for as many members as possible. If subscriptions are necessary then my wish is that these too shall have equitable access for all included.

It occurred to me since I was so clearly off the mark it would be pertinent to review the zaadz mission statement:

“We’re gonna change the world. Our math goes like this: you be the change + you follow your bliss + you give your greatest strengths to the world moment to moment to moment + we do everything in our power to help you succeed + you inspire and empower everyone you know to do the same + we team up with millions like us = we just affected billions = we (together) changed the world.”

It’s a wonderful and inspiring sentiment. I fervently wish this to happen and I applaud all of you on the zaadz team as you try to make it so.

As for the notion of conscious capitalism, I recently recommended a book by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin titled, Your Money Or Your Life. There’s a passage which I feel sums up the life-energy=Money=Capitalism puzzle quite well (at least in the United States).

“Part of the secret to life, it would seem, comes from identifying for yourself that point of maximum fulfillment. There is a name for this peak of the Fulfillment Curve, and it provides the basis for transforming your relationship with money. It’s a word we use every day, yet we are practically incapable of recognizing it when it’s staring us in the face. The word is “enough”.

Here’s wishing that everyone in the zaadz community can define “enough” for themselves satisfactorily and that “enough” is equitable and compassionate towards Gaia.

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i agree with many other people who have expressed their reservations about a “for money” version of zaadz…i have seen with other online communities that making it available for a fee changes the dynamics of the community. most obviously, it limits who becomes part of that group. just to use a mundane example, dating services: there is a distinct under-representation of interesting, artistic, holistic, global-minded people, because many of these folks are not in plush executive jobs and they lack the disposable income to join dating services. this group also includes a lot of the single moms out there, like me! you will lose some of the most thoughful and interesting people right there, including many younger people with educational or post-grad expenses. admittedly, the fee proposed was lower than some types of subscription services, but still! i have seen over and over that making everything for-profit undermines the premise of the holistic worldview—just look at education, look at health care, look at who the average consumer of so-called alternative lifestyle products & services is…(and i say this as a yoga teacher!)
please stick with the basic and free service. the ads are not that devastatingly intrusive on zaadz; if someone thinks they are, let him compare it to myspace for an hour. i can cope with a sidebar of non-flashy ads.  let GAIAM do its marketing thing via all the catalogs and whatnot, and resist the tempation to make a buck off a vibrant community…

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To me, the adjective “Spiritual” means ‘of the Spirit’, and describes someone who is tolerant, open-minded, and seeking enlightenment. Such a person encompasses rather than rejects or precludes, and therefore doesn’t regard things like commerce, ads, subscriptions, money, etc. with suspicion and negativity. It costs money to operate Zaadz, it will cost money to add the tools that many members seem to want to support their own growth, businesses, income, and so forth, and these tools will have to be paid for somehow. I think it’s always a good thing to be given more options, especially when they serve the community as a whole and help maintain the viability of Zaadz itself.

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Wow, Sally, looks like we were typing at about the same time.  But what you are saying is right in line with what I was thinking.  Thank you for your input!  I love the part about, “Such a person encompasses rather than rejects or precludes, and therefore doesn’t regard things like commerce, ads, subscriptions, money, etc. with suspicion and negativity.”  Exactly :)

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Sally?

Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you.

A deep, deep bow for your wisdom, and a big hug for your kindness, and thank you, again, for getting what we're here to do. :)

Siona

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Matthew- Thank you for posting that.  You typed what I was thinking reading down the list.

Support a ninja, buy a subscription? ;)

I live in a suburb of Philly called Voorhees.  We have a mall, called the Echelon Mall that went out of business (more or less) around 5-6 years ago.  Since then it has been pretty vacant– just a big mass of land with a few shops and a food court left.

Of course big business moved in and wanted to buy the area to build.  Local Colleges were among the bidders, and then Wal-Mart came and offered the highest bid.  The town of course has to vote on something like that– and there was quite an  uproar.  All things considered, Voorhees is actually quite progressive compared to the area it is around.  An architect who lived in Voorhees stepped up to the plate, and presented concept art of a town center– a mixture of business and residential space that would serve as a place for all the residents to go– it would make money, provide housing, and as of next year, this place will be one of the most cutting edge progressive places in south jersey to be.

I was involved in that process, so I clearly understand the power of community, and our collective desires.

Now I am going to back up a little bit and say, Gaiam is by no means Wal-Mart.  I have spent the past few weeks reading every little tidbit on Gaiam that I could find and have been in awe over their intent of bringing the thought you find here into the mainstream.  To me, this is just the next logical step- a natural evolution in the company.  It was always the intent of Zaadz to help you inspire and empower those around you.  I have personally spoke to hundreds of you, and you have shared your dreams and desires for a business that is a 'good business', that will raise the consciousness of the planet– using the framework available, all while providing incredible job opportunities for others, and a lot of income for yourselves– the people who really need to have money right now.  Grassroots is all good, but did you see what the Black Eyed Peas did with theirs after the tsunami hit?  Build thousands of green homes for the people who lost theirs.  Can you imagine a world where all of the people who care for it, had a lot of money to do things like that?  That is what I have been imagining for the past 3 1/2 years.

“The problem with the world today is that the civil are not organized, and the organized are not civil.” - Neale Donald Walsch

Look how we've gotten organized!!!  All you have to do is click on a person's interest to find others with like minds.  How easy.  Give us a little bit more time, and I don't know if the above quote will be valid any longer.

Matthew could not be any more transparent about our money situation.  And I agree with him that I am disappointed with the negativity.  If you have time to think a negative thought, please take the time to focus in the opposite direction, like the brilliant architect did in Voorhees, and show us your genius, instead.  Deal? :)

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I think about all the time and effort that has been put into this vision called Zaadz,and I am greatful to all of you.Siona your questions are part of my early morning ritual,Matthew thank-you,Brian what a vision,C4Chaos your blogs actually make me think,Ryan this is my shout out to you!!!!!!!!Joshua the code poet,all of you thank-you
I imagine the sleepness nights,the week-ends,all the time you have devoted to this site and can only admire,and smile at how it has made my internet a better place.
I was a student once,as well as a single mother,and know that struggle very well,money probably takes on more of a meaning when we have none.That is why it is admirable that this team has chosen to continue to offer a free version.
I get bugged by advertising everywhere too,bustops,t.v.,radio,dvds,etc….but I am a consumer,and I know those ads are there bc I continue to buy.I have no one to blame but myself.Yet I am more inclined to say that advertising eco-friendly merchandise sits better with me than,being told I should opt for Botox,or MC Donalds.Solar panels,hybrid cars,yoga,meditation,all of things are carrying a positive message,something most ads do not.
In the end time will tell,in the meantime this place is still my wonderful sanctuary,full of incredible spirits and energy

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B.B.?

This warmed my heart like you wouldn't believe. Thank you.

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“I imagine the sleepness nights,the week-ends,all the time you have devoted to this site and can only admire,and smile at how it has made my internet a better place.”

B.B., thank you for the recognition. we're happy to be of service.

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My thoughts also blogged… apologize I don't have the time at present to read the entire thread (I'll be back to do that later).

Big hugs, kisses, and well wishes to all of you my fellow zaadzters!
I know from experience we are all coming from our own game / perspective and there are many, many, many of them.  Concensus is possible!  It's a proven fact… from what I've heard - lol.

Maybe there should be an “other” link for responses on the survey …  though I hope you have folks waiting to read them.  Also who wrote that?  I’ve become used to some sort of personal connection… someone to respond to, etc,  was it an anonymous person asking a question???

My response:
Honestly the ads don’t bother me… for the most part the ads are ads for things I want to see promoted far and wide and I feel like maybe we’re preaching to the choir.

The survey feels so marketeering…  an enhanced sight?  It feels like then there will be the “haves” and the “have nots”. 

The sight is still in flux – still working out the kinks.  Just today - I left a message for ~Matthew that the personal blog search is out of wack.  The quotes are still hard to get through both personally and for the “big” link.  So much info and so little time.

Will the “have’s” get better service?  A better search capability and answers to any questions posed?

Thus far we’ve all agreed to be in this together.  And, by and large, we realish the fact that it’s free in order to connect and change the world through our connections.  The question of what the site costs to run has come up time and again and I recall folks have basically said, “I’m willing to pay to continue here because it’s great, grand, and wonderful” [my paraphrase of a bunch of recalled statements].

If we really change the world then we start with individuals.  Bri did this by saying here:

Our Mission. We're gonna change the world. Our math goes like this: you be the change + you follow your bliss + you give your greatest strengths to the world moment to moment to moment + we do everything in our power to help you succeed + you inspire and empower everyone you know to do the same + we team up with millions like us = we just affected billions = we (together) changed the world.

Our Plan. Ours involves Conscious Capitalism infused with Spirituality and a healthy dose of Enthusiasm, Love, Service, Inspiration, Passion, Humor and Teamwork. People CRAZY enough to think they can change the world, Courageous enough to do something about it, AND Committed enough to stick to it when they feel like giving up.

We’re in the process of building THE most inspired community of people in the world…social networking with a purpose, a community of seekers and conscious entrepreneurs circulating wisdom and inspiration and wealth and all that good stuff. We're passionate about inspiring and empowering people to bring their dreams to life, learning and growing and getting paid to do what they love, using their greatest gifts in the greatest service to the world. (And having fun in the process!)

Just a snippet, I know yet ,it’s all about the individual – those are the words which drew us all here.  INDIVIDUALS CHANGE THEIR WORLDS!  Bri’s whole message is about individual and personal actions and choices rippling out to others.  AND I have found those people here on Zaadz! 

My personal experience… despite my being “crazed” about what I found on Zaadz – and stating that ad nauseam for those close to me. 

My friends are happy doing what they do.  Raising kids, growing organic vegetables, being nice to folks, doing random acts of kindness, … at present Zaadz just wasn’t their thing and I think it’ll be twice not their thing with a tiered in/out group setup.

I feel I’m on the fence with a big Corp (presently Gaia) looking for a bottom line and an online community I really think can, and is, still coming into it’s own.

The grass is green on both sides!

I’m coming from a “we are all one” perspective…  generally this is not how choices are made in a capitalistic venture.

If folks are gonna pay then let them pay at a level they’re willing and able to do so.  It goes against the current trend yet aren’t we trying to change the current trend.

Are there other options:

(and saying that I know all options have an up and down side)

MY VOTE:  no tiers of have and have nots!

Maybe we all split the cost and see whose willing to stay — that’d tell you exactly where the communities at.

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I see it a bit more like this (agreeing with Dave and Matthew, but quickly interjecting) …

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Hey There!

Ok, so I didn't like the survey either, but that's because I'm the kind of girl that likes more choices.

Advertising. I like the ads. Zaadz is my filter for a lot of “personal growth stuff” that I avoid elsewhere (including eliminating Gaiam mail). They are small and don't disturb primary content. I wouldn't pay to get rid of them but if people want to do so, it makes sense. My access, ads pay for; your access, you pay for.

Resonance Matching. I can do this myself now, but it takes a long time and I miss a lot of people. I might pay a small amount for this.

Classes. There is already so much out there. Soon, I will be adding to the mess. What I would be interested in is a portal to find it all in one place. Like an uber-calendar or a searchable database. I have a vision of Zaadz as the ticketmaster for the conscious set. One place where I could find workshops, classes and whathaveyou that I want to attend and purchase my tickets, registrations etc through your website. As a provider, I pay to be listed. As a ticket-buyer, a handling fee or percentage also goes to Zaadz.

Paid-access to Pods. Feels exclusive and tiered. Hate it.

Discounts. As a member of the Real Goods “Hard Corp” (a paid member discount program from a company acquired by Gaiam), I have experienced that Gaiam has a really hard time honoring that stuff and it is a headache to make sure you got your discount etc. They have gotten huge over the last few years, aggressively buying up all the personal growth companies they think have potential. They haven't been able to integrate the growth yet. I would wait until they get things under control first (if ever) depending on their continued growth, etc.

Random Other Thoughts. BookCrossing has a revenue stream where if you contribute money to their otherwise free service, you get “Angel Wings” after your name. You can also make contributions for other people and give them wings. If you buy their branded merchandise (which directly relates to bookcrossing), you also get wings. I don't know what kind of money-maker this is for them, but it might be worth looking into. It is fun to get wings from people!  Tree-planting, random yoga mat giveaways, etc might fall in here to as random acts of kindness that we could pass on to one another with our financial contribution to Zaadz.

Hmm. OK, that's all for now, I think.  Much love!

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Amy! (Another Amy! :) You know what? I like these replies SO much better than surveys… so thank you, hugely, for taking the time.

I LOVE the BookCrossing wings idea! Speaking as a Zaadz member, and not someone on the team, I'd love to be able to gift people little wings (or seeds, in our case? trees?). I think we'd definitely want to make that part of any upgrade package; anything that allows a Zaadzster to better the experience of other Zaadzsters (or help them feel appreciated or cared about) is great in my book.

Your listings idea, too, is excellent, and seems a logical part of any Pro service. There've been others of the team who've mentioned a “store front” where people could list their goods and services online (either for a small fee or percentage cut) for other Zaadz users to find.

So much potential, hm? Thank you again for those ideas. Again… so, so much better than a survey. :)

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Amy, thank you for sharing the angel wings.  Great ideas.  Maybe we could do flowers… as in flowers of life.

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1)  I'm glad we're having a survey.  Versus not having one and just deciding.  Hope you agree!

2)  Gaiam may as well not exist in this discussion.  Pretend that it's Brian.  The only thing being said is, “Make sure you pay for yourself, in a way consistent with your vision.”  That's the only pressure being exerted.

3)  Ads.  You've just seen over 500 today, if you're the average internet user.  Odds are you didn't notice them, unless you chose to  :)

4)  We're offering to do the heavy lifting of finding content that you may resonate with.  A real engine, way beyond basic search.  Do you think there's people and content on Zaadz that could change your life, once you found it?  Is having a higher % chance of finding that of value to you?  And that's just one of the options.

5)  Free Zaadz is also one of the options, and we're delighted if you pick it.  Thank you for sharing a part of your day, again :)

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We're offering to do the heavy lifting of finding content that you may resonate with.  A real engine, way beyond basic search.

I would love to see a tool that would save me time, getting to the heart of what I'm looking for and connecting at a deeper level. 

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I echo Sally, Matthew, and Dave's posts.  Zaadz takes money to stay up and online, obviously.

Does any one have better ideas for making Zaadz sustainable than those currently offered by the team and the survey?  Is there a “Voorhees architect type” with a great idea for sustaining Zaadz?  …then speak up, please, sincerely, honestly.  I (we, I think) would love to hear from you.

Zaadz is still a baby, really.  Like Ninja D says, time is needed.  Zaadz is idealistic it has to be and that idealism takes time to grow, mature, and take direction and become more realistic.  How do you take more than a 100-thousand individuals and find a cohesive means to change the world?  We are experimenting here in a vast and important way.  Let's not lose sight of that.  This costs - time, energy, money…there are investments monetarily, emotionally, physically, and mentally - and, yes, spiritually. 

This may sound way up in the spheres for some but there is something bigger than Zaadz taking place here.  There is an opportunity transpiring, I don't have the words really.  Personally, I'm making connections with people and ideas that weren't previously available to me.  I'm talking about something deeper than information or value.  I hope you understand…

Money is not the issue but it's certainly needed to further this endeavor.  Let's figure it out, quickly, as best we can and continue this - whatever this is…KWIM?

Love One Another

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There is an opportunity transpiring, I don't have the words really.  Personally, I'm making connections with people and ideas that weren't previously available to me.  I'm talking about something deeper than information or value.  I hope you understand…

Rod,  You are SO right on here.  This is the reason that I'm here and excited about what is transpiring.  The connections that am and making and WE are making are helping us be more empowered to change the world. 

There is a very strong sense of Being, belonging, connection within this community.  There is a togetherness that is transforming who we are and what we do on a daily basis.  The connections made in this on line community spill over into our physical worlds every day.  Zaadz is a baby… and we are already making a difference is so many ways.

It is also hard for me to put into words what is transpiring.  The opportunities unfolding are inspiring to me.

It's really nice that we can open up this discussion with the community to co-create this evolving space.

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It is also hard for me to put into words what is transpiring. 

I think you're both doing wonderfully.

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Hi everyone.  I'm disappointed by all the negative responses to the survey, so let me be blunt.  The ads don't bring in enough revenue to pay for the site.  We need other sources of income in order to make Zaadz self-sustainable. 

The idea behind premium memberships is NOT to subtract from the already free site, but to provide a means to pay for it.  And the idea behind this discussion forum is to solicit the genius of each of you to help us do that.  We LOVE you.  We WANT your input.  In the end, those on the biz team have to make the decision as to how we're going to pay the bills.  But we want to do it in as conscious a way as possible.  That is, we're THINKING OF YOU when we do it.  Please help us figure out how to make Zaadz sustainable instead of attacking the idea that we NEED to make it sustainable.  We've always needed to do so. 

The free Zaadz you grew to love wasn't really free anyway; it was paid for by investors.  And we knew we needed to make Zaadz profitable from the very beginning in order to stick around.  Being acquired by Gaiam doesn't change that. It does, however, mean that those on the team who were sacrificing their own paycheck so others could get paid, won't have to do so any more. 

So, here's the crux of my message.  The free version of Zaadz will remain.  But we need to pay for it.  We want to do so in a way that helps you.  In fact, we believe that we will be successful to the extent that we help you.  Moreover, if you get more from the deal than we do, we'll still be all smiles; we love to help; and we're expecting that those who use the premium tools will provide value for our non-paying members beyond what Zaadz could have ever done alone… but I digress.  So, we've come up with several options to pay for our site (and make it thrive even more) that will hopefully benefit everyone.  Now we want your input. As Siona said, “What do you think?  Did we leave anything out?  What would you like to see?”  Please be constructive.  Oh, and read that survey again, keeping in mind that it was written while thinking of YOU. 

Hugs,
~Matthew

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Hi, I'd just like to suggest a super-low price tier, like $1 per month, or perhaps even less.  Zaadz has a large enough membership that even asking for tiny amounts of money could have excellent results.

Another idea: perhaps you could give all the different subscription services their own low price, then allow people to pick and choose the individual services they want, and to save money by not choosing the services they don't want.

Since, for instance, some people might want to be able to customize their profile more, but might not mind having ads, or don't want plastic wasted on a credit card they might never use, etc.


Also, speaking of credit cards - I assume probably credit cards will be one of the main payments methods available for people to pay for their subscription.  I've heard that there are transaction fees for merchants who take credit cards.

However, one way to get around those (and thus make it far more possible to take small payments) might be to take payments through Second Life.  (More details on Second Life as a payment method are in this post).

The credit card business, in my opinion, is one of the least conscious businesses out there (my opinions are on this page and this page).  I would consider it brilliantly conscious and admirable if Zaadz took part in a credit card boycott. :-)


Or, alternatively, and perhaps better still, Zaadz could provide a credit card which truly lives up to the ideal of conscious capitalism.

(Unfortunately, this might be hard to do - I'm guessing it might involve starting a credit card company from scratch, since I know of no existing credit cards that I would fully, wholeheartedly recommend.)

Anyhow, just some ideas. :-)

Best wishes,
Apollia

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Oh, my. Apollia?

I feel as though you've been listening in on the conversations with the team. Chris G, who posted above, had that same idea of a menu of services. And I do love the idea of the one-super-low price (especially for the year, say?) that people could easily sign up to.

And your notion of an alternative credit card? Let's just say it's far, far within the realm of possibility. :)

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Credit cards might be fine for those who have them, but with many single mothers and students on board, that might be a problem for some people.  I would suggest that if you do go with some form of payment, that you also find other ways for those who don't have credit cards to also participate.

I no longer use credit cards.  I have a debit card, but it may not work for making a payment to the US.  Also, there are people here from many different countries, which brings into play the idea of exchange rates that will have to be calculated, etc.

Just something to think about…..

Gem

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Gem.

Again, your gentle perspective is wonderful. I'm not a big credit card person, either–debit makes more sense to me–and if/when we do offer upgrades, we'll certainly ensure that debit will be an option.

And you know, I was just reading another blog that someone had posted about the international thing! I know we're a US-based company and our language and demographic reflects this, but I'd love to see Zaadz become more global. It seems nearly necessary, given our ideals and values and all the rest. :)  So thank you, again, for that reminder.

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Hi Apollia,

You're right in the flow with the heart of our discussions… as Siona said.  Thanks for sharing.  If you have more please share with us.

Peace,

Mark

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Thanks Matthew,

Very well said. 

We have a lot of possible options that can help us support the free site.  I too see the potential of the free site being much more than it is now … not less with these added services.  The community itself is the heart and soul of Zaadz and I feel confident that it will remain so.

I did not move myself and family half way across the world for any less than a transformational vision of changing the world… I heard the Gaia vision pre-Zaadz and knew that the Zaadz community is the kind of space that aligns with changing the world through conscious capitalism… and WE (this community) is the core of these mutual visions.  I've seen the coming together of visions and am very happy that Zaadz is a part of this.

So, please continue to share your constructive feedback with us.

Peace,

Mark

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TANSTAAFL

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Dear ONE ,
did the survey and I think people here would do anything for the well being and good for all. The challenge I see is This: Is this or any of our ideas here and out of here seeks a complete action that will empower us all? Or will only work for the few ?
How many people here you think are struggling just to make a living to support themselves in this set up system that the only basis for success is their separate sense of self? Some of us are just paying the bills from month to month just to get by. And some of us here can and will forth any of the paying services and fees seminars meditations curses, love donations, dinners with the “untouchables”, workshops, retreads, books and all the good things that money can only buy to make you more aware and successful. I do not see the problem on charging fees that will sustain an support a conscious community that seeks the good and well being for all. And on a community that is aware that our personal success is the success of all its members. The problem I see is:
How can we create a complete action in our world that will see and change our life in all aspects shapes and forms to the good and well being of all of us? And not just only for the few?

As is right now, the have’s and have’s not are among us.
I proposed an action within the community that will support our talents and services within its members, and members that will spread their abundance of success for the success of everyone in our community.

Because I am your success and you are mine
what affect the One affects everyone …

And with this we shall see and create a new world for the good of all.
Free and generous is good for now…

Thank you for being One,
Lightfield

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I proposed an action within the community that will support our talents and services within its members, and members that will spread their abundance of success for the success of everyone in our community.

Lightfield,  I like what you shared here.

How about zPro?  As a conscious entrepreneur I  love this  tool.  I've been telling all my  author, coach,  yoga teacher, etc. friends about the potential of sharing their talents and services with something like zPro.  zPro essentially gives the conscious business person a way to share and spread our stories, essentially sharing and spreading our abundance.  Zpro is just a beginning.  I think it has the potential to be one of the proposed actions you are asking for.

What do you think?

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It is such a relief that everyone agrees!

Reading all those post was ineteresting. I see three kinds of answer:
1) the rebel child
2) the “go with the flow” or submissive child
3) the parent rewarding the agreeing child, with answers like *thank you” or “this is the best post” and confronting the rebel child.

This whole thing is so predictible. What will happen? Zaadz will turn into a multi-level pay platform. It’s members will drop in amount, but the thing may be viable as enough people will stay on and pay. In four to five years, gaiam will have recovered the price it payed for Zaadz. In a few months the initial Zaadz crew employed by Gaiam will be fired or promoted to other levels.

Now Siona, As I’m writing to you, I see genpo’s add. Why is it “wrong” according to me for a zen master to buy space for commercials? Well, I nearly want to say that if you do not notice what’s wrong, well then there’s a gap that I can’t cross anymore. But that’s quite agressive and I’ll try to be more creative.

I mean he could write some articles that could draw us towards him. I mean he could produce something, create some energy coming out of his Zen master beeing that shines. Now the only thing that shines is his picture and the fact that he paid for it to be here in front of my eyes. Don’t you see Siona that this whole thing is going the commercial way? What is your gut feeling when you arrive at the Gaiam.com website? What is the substance?

This community is living one of the most common symptom of our society: spiritual materialism.

In the end I don’t care about Zaadz. This place has been good to me and if it changes or ends, I really don’t care- What I’m interested at is how this whole thing is beeing changed into a business thing, how zen masters pay for commercials, and how you all fight to justify some foggy notion of “conscious capitalism”.

I want honesty. And not bubbly spirituality. I don’t care about responding to a survey and then, getting an automatic answer telling me I’m extraordinary! This is just not working for me. This is customer care….not spirituality!

We’re out of focus here.

Patrick

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This is not spirituality or about spirituality, far as I can tell.  This is an organizational discussion.  Zaadz has groups of people who share some senses of the world, but also have their own, and this is about how to “tend” our shared space - sounds more like governing than religion. 

We're on someone's computers (lots of them) and there are people maintaining the space.  For free, we can turn off the computers and tell people to go home.  This discussion is a “hypothetical”, assuming that we don't consider that a good idea.  Chime in all you want, ideas are most welcome.  But ideas at the very least, please.

As far as Genpo, well, some monks drag their bowls door to door, and some monks buy ad space.  Take your pick.

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Patrick!

I love these conversations. :)

My gut response to your post? Why the fatalistic atttidude? Why be so sure of the future? I see this whole platform, and this whole challenge, as providing a powerful opportunity for change. And besides, when did 'commercial' become a dirty word? When did money–or making money–become somehow wrong?

(An aside: could you say more about spiritual materialism? My understanding of the term is that it's what occurs when people become egoically attached to the notion of spirituality–being 'spirtual' becomes a part of their identity, with the usual psychological repercussions. I think it's certainly a legitimate concern, but I'm confused as to how it's happening here.)

Carrying on, though–and I know I do tend to carry on ;) –what's wrong with this being a “business thing”? Of course it's a business thing; that's the point. The world we live in is deeply bound up in business and commerce and money, and I, personally, think that the only negative around this involves being unconscious or in denial about it. This conversation alone is shedding light on how we're all a part of this–as Chris wrote below, someone bought that computer you're typing on now, and someone was paid to install the phone lines (or cable lines) you're using to access this forum.

I'm not sure how to make this more clear, or more honest. Zaadz isn't being “changed into” a business thing–it's always BEEN a business thing, in the same way the clothes you wear and the food you eat are business things. (Obviously all these are MORE than that, too, but to ignore the financial component is, to my mind, being willfully blind.)

Again, the only thing that's changing here is that we're talking about it. And as someone who, like you, is interested in honesty and being aware, I think this is a good thing.

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Hi Patrick and everyone,

I've been only marginally in contact with zaadz over the past few months, so don't know much about the gaia community, but it seems like a good idea. Siona and Matthew, you are very brave to deal with all zaadzsters' feelings, especially in a stormy issue like this.

I've never been enthusiastic about the idea of conscious capitalism. Practicalities I can understand - bills and salaries have to be paid, and you can only get so much from a free site, even with the ads.

Perhaps what some of us thought we were experiencing when we first joined zaadz was a pipe dream. That's not a criticism either of those of us who thought we could get away from commercialism here or of those of you who run the site. I just wonder as I step back and think about it and read this thread if we weren't just being unrealistic. Reality can be a rude shock.

Patrick, I think I understand at least somewhat how you feel. Ce n'est pas facile pour moi non plus, et comme toi, je ne suis pas certaine si je vais continuer ici. But I wanted to share something with you that I hope you'll find funny. I have a problem with my computer screen that blanks out about a quarter of the screen on the right, so I can't see any of the ads unless I scroll over :) It's an unexpected reward to the negative behavior of procrastinating getting that fixed.

Peace and love,

Nicole

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Nicole?

Thank you for that little perspective on bravery; I suppose it comes easily when it's fueled by love. I don't know whether that sounds overstated, but I do care, deeply, about this community and about the beauty of the connections that have grown in this space, and I care, deeply, about the team that's been working on Zaadz for so long. Thank you, though; you're very kind. :)

I'd like to think there's a middle way between the pipe dreams and rude reality you mentioned. There are bills and salaries, sure; we live in a society in which, by accident or aggreement, money is used to ease transactions and facilitate our dwelling alongside each other.

One of the downsides of this convenience is unconsciousness–it's easy, for me at least, to slip into a mindlessness about financial transactions, so that when I pay my electrictiy bill I don't think about the human beings whose minds and hands and labor helped make that service a reality.

To me, conscious capitalism involves bringing that awareness back. I suppose it might seem like a small thing, but those little instances of mindfulness add up, and, for me at least, make an impact on how I relate to money: how I spend it, how I value it, how I make it. It's a reminder of how we all connect.

Your computer screen issue put such a grin on my face. Thank you for that story. :)

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Hello Nicole, nice to see you back.

I love that computer trick of yours!!!!

I have little time now to write so will do more later, but just a little note.

I don’t question the need for this service to cost at some point. If Zaadz was still Zaadz, and they would have asked for a fee, low, and the same for all, I would have readily agreed. I thin HeyOk voiced kind of an idea like that.

I don’t like so much this mutli level access idea: pay 5$ get that, pay 10$ get in the silver circle, pay 50$ you’re a V.I.P. I think it induces a hierarchy based on money and not on capacities. Many people here on Zaadz have no money, but have become shining lights for others. Now if you can have money and pay more than others, you’ll be able to enhance your profile (already a bit the case with Zpro) and then pose as a healer of some sort.

But now it’s too late, as Zaadz has been acuqired by a business company, which website is certainly nice, but is 100% focused on selling. I’m really not sure I want to be part of that.

More later. Good discussion.

With love,

patrick

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Mark? I know I'm sorta biased in this, because I'd obviously be benefitting from anyone who signed up, but I'm with you… I like how that service / feature is in alignment with (and a logical extension of) our 'helping people people find their seed' philosophy. I like the idea of benefitting because I'm genuinely helping others; and to me it makes sense to support people in making a living doing what they love–whatever that might mean to them–and helping them tell their stories and share their services and products with others who value that alignment and authenticity and connection.

(Favorite topic, Siona? Really? :)

And Lightfield? I loved your perspective on this whole issue. You're right; this community is made up of people from all different backgrounds and levels of income, and I love the action / solution you touched on, and I think Mark is spot on with his observation that a service like zPro could be a big step on that path.

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Siona,

I'm not here to benefit from zPro for myself.  I am here in service to the community.  I already did the success conscious entrepreneur thing in my life by creating my own tools on the internet and marketing my salon, spa, veggie cafe, eco-store.  The internet became our primary form of marketing outside of building direct relationships with high touch, high quality service.  It helped to tell our the story we were already telling everyday, person to person.  And we were very, very successful on many levels. 

As someone that's been living conscious capitalism for a long time I am here to be of service to the larger community.   My purpose here goes way beyond…. 

I LOVE Zaadz and I LOVE zPro, and all the other tools we are considering for the benefit of EVERYONE here.  What I love is that this is a community of many minds and hearts coming together co-creating WE. 

I am here for the WE!

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Goodness… I know. I do. And I was going to post a note up above, where you mentioned about how glad you were that Zaadz was a part of this, to say that I was as glad that you're a part of it. Thank you, deeply, and I apologize if any part of that comment above implied anything other than what you just described.

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I think more like a free site to promote talents and services to the world. One that will earn a percentage to zaadz site to keep it free of monthly fees. One that would be based on a generous voluntary choice to donate and share our success in gratitude for each other. I am thinking of a 10%, 20% or 30% or best choice commissions to zadds per services or products transactions sold on the promoting site. I am thinking of a win win set up system for the good of all involved. I am personally running a gallery business where artist are empowered to earn 80% and 60% of their artworks sold. And paying the gallery 20% or 40% commission for the use of Timespace. As an artist myself I want to see changes on how we have ben performance business from the established ones in the world. So I am creating on being the very changes I want to see .
My manifesto is: I am your success and you are mine …
How can we collaborate for the good of all?

Thank you for asking Mark and,Siona
zPro could be going in the One potential…

Lightfield

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Hi Siona,

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The engine is right in between social (2.0) and semantic (3.0) …  we'll all be building it together :) :)

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Hey Siona,

  I just joined Zaadz a few weeks ago and am very impressed at the atmosphere you and your team have created here. The survey was one of the best surveys I've had because it was short and easy to read and understand. 

   Anyway, I think that you should keep the “free” option open even if you decide to create a membership. Reason being that there are a lot of people out there with good ideas and a will to change the world. I think that for trying to change the world it is important that you allow even those who are frugal or too lazy to pay to have an account and express what they are feeling. Everything has some sort of Truth in it.

Matt \ Oversoul Incumbant

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As long as I'm around (and, I daresay, the Zaadz team exists!), there'll always be a free version. I'd completely understand that not everyone would be interested in paying; some people don't use the site enough to make it worthwhile to them; others might not be able to easily afford even a small charge; still others come from different countries and may not have the means or funds; others might want to explore a bit before committing to a longer membership. So no worries… the community connection will remain as is.

And your final sentence is beautiful. :)

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I've been reading through these posts and it seems to me that bottom line with what you all are saying is that this is going to happen no matter what the community thinks and/or feels about it - so why bother asking? Maybe instead of a “survey” you should of just made the statement that seems to be the basic reply to anyone who is not agreeing with this change - Zaadz is a business - we need the money - so this is what we are going to do..” And then lay out your planned action and live with the results of it. There seems to be a lot of passion on both sides of this issue - but it looks like your minds are made up already - so again, why bother with the pretext that anything else that is said matters?

I know these are strong words, but that is my take on the situation. You all have created a wonderful website for a lot of people from many walks of life. To some, $5 or $15 or $20 is no big deal. For others, it is impossible to justify in their budget. I wish I had $5 worth of change in my car seats - it is pretty presumptuous to believe that is true for everyone.

Anyway, I am not an “oldtimer” at Zaadz, but have come to love the site. I guess the new and improved Zaadz will have its benefits too. And there will be the ones who really want to change the world (those that can afford to pay) - and then there will be the rest of us. I hope that I don't miss out on meeting some wonderful friend because I am in the “poor people” group.

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Jami?

A long-time friend of mine on the site sent me an email that said essentially the same thing, which makes me worry that we could have presented the survey a bit more carefully, because I don't think the decision is settled yet at all.

Yes, we're pretty dedicated, and hopeful, about the subscription model–which people have asked about ever since we first put ads on the site. This is definitely true.

However, we have a set number of developers, and we're all only human, so it makes a difference where we focus our energy first.

If there are more people interested in the zPro tools, we'll keep putting our attention there; if it's community tools and features that this group feels is most valuable, we'll focus on that; or, if people decide that it's only content or classes or access to teachers that's worth a subscription, we'll start with that approach. If you decide it's all good and it doesn't matter where we start, well, then we'll have a happy (and busy!) dev team indeed. Our desire with the survey was to help make sure that we didn't spend months working on a service model that no one wants.

And of course, if we find out, based on the results, that no one is remotely interested in paying for any of it, well, then we're back to our old ad sales model.

(As an aside, though, I'd like to make the observation that this discussion so far isn't reflective of either the results of the survey or the personal emails I've gotten. It's funny how those who'd look forward to the changes and options either respond privately or click the button and leave it at that, while those who have something slightly more critical to say are happy to write at length. :)

And another aside. By providing a subscription model for those who want it, we'll be able to keep the basic site, as it stands now, free. This all seems very win-win to me.)

Anyway. It's getting late here. I should scoot to bed. More tomorrow, I'm sure…

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Read the thread [most of it] and the survey -did not take it, though.

I have no problem with anything becoming for money as Zaadz has always been about capitalism; and no problem with deciding that I will not pay for a subscription model, as I am not so far in a business. In fact, the reason I am not in a healing or holistic business is just the same reason that people are being negative about Zaadz/GAiam making money - the feeling that money is somehow different from spirituality; that it is better to seek one or the other.

Like Sally, I believe that what costs money to run, had better make money too. I have seen businesses fail because the owners preferred to work but did not like to ask for the money for their work. 

I would rather know who is paying for what is “free”, than not. If it seems feasible, and if it is right, then the spiritual view tells me: whatever one needs will manifest.

Siona, I was a little surprised at this: “And you know, I was just reading another blog that someone had posted about the international thing! I know we're a US-based company and our language and demographic reflects this, but I'd love to see Zaadz become more global.”

Zaadz is already more global than the company realizes; I can see that. There is an interesting gap between the community and the company! I did not anticipate this. I do see this “the world is the U.S.” bias in some posts, but am surprised that it is apparently also present among the company folk.  “Changing the world”—surely did not mean just a country! Sorry if this sounds like an attack, because it is really not. More a what? Really!  and a tut-tut than a :(

And the reason that some people are riled about the money angle may be - “changing” and then going with the same model as the world…how much of the change is really envisaged? To them, I would say: doucement, softly, let's be gentle. Change is coming. Baby steps. Let us watch, learn, continue sending light.

May we see the light shining through all changes.

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Meenakshi!

Great post. Thank you. :)

I just wanted to clarify that sentence that surprised you, just because I ought to have expressed that better to start. We're well-aware of how many different countries are represented on Zaadz; there are people from all over the world on the site, and I've, personally, felt a tremendous amount of gratitude for those notes and connections I've made with those on the other side of the planet from me. What I meant with that comment was that I'd love for us to support multiple languages, so that those who wanted an alternative to our current English text could choose to see it in Spanish or Japanese or French.  I'm sure in time it'll happen, but right now it's still a bit wish. That's all.


And I'd like to underline your last words about baby steps. Changing the world doesn't mean, to me, overthrowing the current economic system and imposing a new one on everyone (or overthrowing the system and leaving people to sort out the details for themselves!). For me it means taking those steps, right now, that only I can take, because only I am in the position I'm in right now. It makes taking steps to be more aware of where I'm spending my money, and the benefit I'm bringing to others, and the effect my daily actions (physical and financial) have on the world around me. I can't help but think that IS important. Or at least it's important to me. :)

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Hi Matthew,
I liked your frankness/openness in saying that zaadz, as it is currently, is not making enough money on the ads to stay afloat, and has to consider other options.
For me, for sure this caused a shift.
for me, it meant that this is not only about the Gaiam takeover, and perhaps, zaadz would have gone this way anyway, at some point in time.

However, i have to say that i can't buy in (as of now), to the subscription only pods. I'm sure it's me - but this to me comes across as being exclusive. And zaadz has never been about this.

I also liked one of the earlier ideas of a low low price ($1) for subscription - makes a lot of sense.

Siona - sorry about using the 'hate' word re. Gaiam earlier. I guess i'm attached to zaadz as it is, and to me gaiam is just a site for selling products.

I don't mind the ads on zaadz (at all), and at times, even choose to check some of them out. However, as this is not enough to sustain zaadz financially, i guess you-all have to look for other options.
However, in terms of communicating your intent, perhaps there's something more to be learnt.

Much love to all the zaadz staff, for who you-all are being, during these testing times. I'm sure many of us forget that you-all also are employees, and your employer has been taken over by a bigger company. And that can be quite stressful in itself.

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Hi, I'm just now getting my feet wet in the Zaadz community and am still learning how it works, but I have to say that I like the idea of having more options, and don't mind paying for them. I don't mind the ads either, because I find them interesting and certainly a lot nicer than the ads you'll find on MySpace or any number of social networks. I actually appreciate them.

The main thing I didn't like about the survey were private pods and discussions for paying members. It seems to me as a paying member you will have access to different services, but I don't think that should include to each other in community. I don't think setting that kind of exclusion in communities is a good idea and really does have the feel of elitism and class system.

I'm also not interested in big name gurus. I really like the grassroots feel here, but if it's an alternative for people to have access to, that's fine as long as it doesn't start to define this community.

As far as making money, it's always been such a strange dichotomy to have prosperity and abundance thinking such a big part of new thought and many new age spiritual disciplines, but when you take steps to actually make it, it can elicit such a negative response.

But material manifestation doesn't always have to happen out of the blue through serendipitous ways or just drop into your lap or appear in your life as a gift while you're standing there looking in the other direction saying “Oh…for me?” for it to be okay.

Sometimes it requires an honesty that says, “I have this for you and out of respect - for me and you - request that from you in turn.”  Why does it suddenly become a bad deed when it involves money? It's a way of being of service to one another and if done with integrity it doesn't have to be usuary.

Perhaps that is what this experiment is about. To see if we can exchange services, which includes the passing of money to the mutual benefit of everyone.

I've been homeless with two minor children. I've prayed in the back of my car and slept there and it isn't  more spiritual than being able to put cash in my account to pay for my rent today, and I can tell you which one I prefer. And neither do I think just having enough to live from paycheck to paycheck, and on some days not even that, more spiritual than living independently wealthy nor taking the steps to get there, as long as there's no one under your feet.

Money, the making of it isn't the god it's cut out to be, but neither is it the devil. It's what we do with it, the why of it and the how of it. Zaadz needs to function in this world and it should turn a profit.

So if Zaadz needs to make money and is seeking to do it through subscriptions, giving us a choice and a voice in how it might be done, then I'm glad for it.

Having said that I just read an artice that stated that some major companies are forgoing subscriptions to rely on advertisements, but those are companies like NYTimes, and they have a much larger pool of advertisers…the kind of advertisements we don't want to see here.

I assume there's a standard that Zaadz uses for their advertisers, which means their pool of advertisers will by definition be much more limited. So I sympathize with their challenge.

To my understanding the free version will continue. The woman I was when I was living in the back of my car could come here and participate. And the woman I am today can invest a few bucks in this community, even though I'm not rich. But I'd like to be.

If I can do that with integrity, then I will. And if Zaadz is trying to be successful financially, as well, within and through their principles, then I support that. And I look forward to being part of that journey.

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KoolK…

No apology necessary. :) I like Zaadz the way it is, too, but for me this whole experiment is a bit like being in a relationship; I can love the person I'm with and not want anything about them to change, but I can love the person they're evolving into, too.

Thank you, too, for understanding that this is most definitely not about a 'takeover' or Gaiam as an entity asking us to do anything differently; how Zaadz does business is most definitely in our hands (daunting as that prospect might feel!).

And I know I've mentioned this before, but how can you say Zaadz “has never been about” being exclusive? You filled out an application to join, remember? :) And again, there are even now private pods that only certain invitees can join–we've always offered that ability to members. Offering a private pod to Zaadz supporters seems completely reasonable to me.

But thank you thank you thank you for your own openheartedness and participation in this ongoing dialog, and for showing up as yourself in all this. (I suppose if I were to ask one little favor, it's to extend a little appreciation to Gaiam, a company that's made up of some pretty incredible human beings who've been wonderful in making the Zaadz team feel welcomed and appreciated and cared for.)

Much love right back-atcha. :)

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Siona,
About exclusive pods - i still can't buy the idea of 'subscribers only' pods. The difficulty for me is perhaps due to my experience of the richness of zaadz, and this comes out of it's openness - anyone can contribute to any pod at any time.
If we have subscriber only pods, it seems to me that the depth and breadth could be lost.
Also, why restrict access to pods purely on the basis of whether one is a paid subscriber or not?
Also, the pods you mention are (i guess) created by the cultivator with a specific intent in mind, and this could perhaps be best achieved with limited/focussed contribution from members.
However, even for this survey, if u had a stipulation (say) that anyone who has purchased anything from zaadz/gaiam in the past could contribute, this itself would limit the richness and variety of the contributions.

I see your logic in adding specific functionality and charging for this, and am happy with this. However, i remain unconvinced about 'subscriber only' pods at the moment.

Also, i'm a little more open to the possibilities offered by gaiam than i was, at the beginning of the conversation - thanks for this!

much more love!

KoolK.

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Siona - I just want to say that I am sorry that you and the rest of the dev team are up against this storm. It kind of makes sense though that only those with negative feelings have a lot to say, because if someone agrees with the whole idea and thinks its great - why would they feel compelled to reply?  Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I think you all have very hard jobs, and I am sorry you are dealing with all of the backlash of this. Hopefully, you'll whether the bad waves and find peace on the other side!
Jami

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Oh, Jami. No worries at all. I have the best job in the world. :)

Thank you, though, for so easily seeing the other side, and for that recognition about squeaky wheels. I know, too, that all change demands a bit of processing, and I'm sure, in part, that this is a little of what's going on here. We had a very, very similar discussion when we first put ads on the site.

All part of the journey…

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I’ve kept reading the discussion since I first responded yesterday - it’s all fascinating.

It’s crystal clear that everyone loves the site and the community it enables. It’s pretty obvious that prior to the Survey and ensuing discussion, few members had thought about Zaadz as a business entity with facitily/equipment/software/operating costs and a payroll. Now that this ‘secret’ is out of the bag, and we are asked to confront the harsh reality that it takes income to keep Zaadz afloat (what a shock!), it’s clear we have different ways of confronting this particular reality, and mixed feelings about how to generate the necessary income.

One idea that hasn’t been considered yet is the option of supporting the site via monetary donations. Such contributions by members would help cover some of the expenses, and might reduce the need for additional ads, or high subscription rates, or exclusive levels of membership - at least for a while. The fact that “donations” are “voluntary” might make it easier for some members (we’ll donate what and when we can afford to), and more comfortable for others (we’re giving money because we want to, not because we have to). Whether or not this option flies, I’m ready to send a donation immediately. Just tell me how.

Meanwhile, thanks to this on-going discussion, it looks like the Zaadz Team is getting more than enough feedback and ideas to develop a mutually compatible solution.

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It seems kind of strange to me that zaadz, which is now wholly owned by Gaiam, is asking the community for help in figuring out how to pay the bills. Shouldn't Gaiam have had a plan for this when they bought zaadz?

As far as an ad-free service, I haven't seen many sites that have been successful unless they are offering some other premiums along with it. And 'enhanced' services like zPro? Well, I'll just say that if zaadz was able to build a compelling service for businesses that they thought people would be willing to pay for, it would never have been sold to Gaiam in the first place.

The only real solution that makes sense to me is that Gaiam focus on making zaadz a marketing channel for their products and content. Of course, this would have to be done in a sensitive way, but it seems like the only real viable solution for a profitable, member-based, gaiam-ized community. The community would pay for itself through increased sales of Gaiam products and/or it would generate its own revenue through membership-based access to premium content.

The bottom line is pretty simple. If you want to make money, build a service that people will actually be willing to pay for.

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Well, I’ve been reading through this discussion for about an hour now, and I’m nowhere near the end of the comments, so forgive me if any of this has already been said – I’m sure at least some of it has been expressed already, but nevertheless, I’d like to share my perspective.

 First, I’d like to just step back, look at the big picture and point out how great it is that Zaadz is actually soliciting community feedback before making any changes.  To me, that says a lot about values and integrity right there – at least in part, it’s a “we” decision, not just a “them” decision.

 Next, I could say a lot about the specifics of the options presented in the survey….I personally voted for option 4 and am very excited about the resonance engine and the seminars (among other things), but I also like some of the member suggestions, such as a tier with an annual fee comparable to that of a magazine subscription ($15-20/year).  There are a lot of possibilities, and a lot of great energy fueling this conversation.  But it seems that the heart of the discussion really goes much deeper.

Frankly, on a philosophical level, I applaud these changes for a variety of reasons.  Practically, the enhanced service offerings are absolutely valuable and worth paying for, if you want them, and if not, don’t sign up for them.  All the beauty, depth and richness of the beloved social networking aspects of the site will remain forever free and equally available – let’s not lose sight of that.

 But perhaps even more important than the content of any particular new service being offered, I welcome these changes because they signal for me that Zaadz will have the resources to be around for a long, long time…and that makes me very happy.  It is simple economics:  Ensuring the financial solvency (dare I even utter the dirty word profitability?) of the site ensures its long term viability.

 For all the people who seem to have such strong knee jerk reactions against blending commerce with spirituality (or with anything nice, for that matter):  I know it’s tempting sometimes to sit around on our meditation cushions, saying om all day, and endeavoring to keep that dirty business of making money out of our sanctuaries and in the boardrooms of the petroleum companies where it belongs, right?  But I’m curious:  Are all you spiritual seekers out there surviving on alms and the kindness of strangers, or do any of you have to pay rent?  Did it ever occur to you that Zaadz does too?  How many of us have any clue how much money it takes each month to keep Zaadz up and running (especially with the sophisticated technologies and high-end tools that the site offers)?  How can we expect this amazing platform for community, growth and positive change to be there for us if we do nothing to support it (if we have the motivation and the means)?  Is there a better way for Zaadz to flourish – or even exist in the long term – than to create revenue through offering an optional set of upgrades for those who want and are willing and able to pay for them? 

 In closing, let’s not forget the whole idea behind conscious capitalism (on which the site was founded – re-read the mission statement if you’ve forgotten). We could look at this whole situation in a glass-half-empty kind of way, as some of you have, and say that Zaadz is selling out and becoming a corporate beast.  We could leave Zaadz in protest, hole up in our off-the-grid cabins in the woods, grow our own food and refuse to participate in any money-making ventures.  But how much change are we really effecting in the world if that’s our choice?  Simply put, money is power, and money is a tool.  Accordingly, I see the glass in this situation as being half full (really more like 7/8 full).  I am thrilled that enough people care about making positive changes in the world that a site like Zaadz has become nothing less than a social phenomenon - so popular, so deeply loved by its members – which is truly manifesting the vision of changing the world through caring and community.  If Zaadz thrives and prospers, then the multitudes of conscious businesses and entrepreneurs that Zaadz supports and empowers through the site are much more likely to prosper as well, which creates a pretty wonderful ever-expanding cycle of wealth in the hands of those who care (and who are likely to use their money to support other good things in the world)…It’s a powerful possibility.

To me, the opportunity to support this mission is priceless.  I’ll gladly do without those two chai lattes a month to do so.

In love, growth and service,

Beth

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Beth,

I want to react on your following paragraph, as one who tends to question the links between economy and spirituality.

you say:”For all the people who seem to have such strong knee jerk reactions against blending commerce with spirituality (or with anything nice, for that matter): I know it’s tempting sometimes to sit around on our meditation cushions, saying om all day, and endeavoring to keep that dirty business of making money out of our sanctuaries and in the boardrooms of the petroleum companies where it belongs, right? But I’m curious: Are all you spiritual seekers out there surviving on alms and the kindness of strangers, or do any of you have to pay rent? Did it ever occur to you that Zaadz does too? How many of us have any clue how much money it takes each month to keep Zaadz up and running (especially with the sophisticated technologies and high-end tools that the site offers)? How can we expect this amazing platform for community, growth and positive change to be there for us if we do nothing to support it (if we have the motivation and the means)? Is there a better way for Zaadz to flourish – or even exist in the long term – than to create revenue through offering an optional set of upgrades for those who want and are willing and able to pay for them?”

For a start I think that obviously you think anyone questioning spirituality/commerce is obviously quite stupid! I think it may be quite more complicated than that! Some people are sitting on meditation cushion chanting AUM and still, have a brain!

The number one domain to make money nowadays is: green things, well beeing and spirituality.

Making money is certainly not bad. But there exists, dear Beth, some people who’s motivation is solely this “making money”!

And still, that is not bad! but I don’t think it has to do with spirituality.

Many companies and people are using the desires of people, their desire for health, harmony and peace, as a way to sell all kinds of things.

That is the problem.

So again, if this community could have been able to make the shift to a “own support” by some chared fees….Then fine… and perfect. This would have been interesting and innovative.

But the thing has been sold to some shop keepers! LOL…this is so funny.

For me Gaiam is selling things I don’t need! You want to eat well? buy local! dress well? buy local? As for Yoga….it’s funny but I’ve always thought that you just needed nothing to practice it…now I’ve learned there are all sorts of things I need to practice .Lol again.

This is going towards a two gear society:

1) if your poor you eat bad foot and you dress with dangerous non-natural(?) cloths.
2) if you have money, you get your 100% cotton natural green made by happy man/woman in nice factory sweater!

This two gear society is going to be the biggest problem of the next years, and I fear we, here at Zaadz, are not changing it, but have just been swallowed by it.

Now I’m going back to my meditation cushion.

Be well,

Patrick

Re: Subscription Survey!

One,
Be Peaceful in this
Oneness…

Lightfield

Re: Subscription Survey!

…gosh this has generated a lot of responce !…as for me…I would rather see the ads as a flag along the right…I don't feel that this site is a milk cow…it is a network …as the internet grows there will be more people from the 3rd world that are not afluent…and their voices will be needed…the internet is a vehicle for change as we have seen this last week in Myanmar…the next couple of years will see massive changes in the world/internet scene…Zaadz is poised to be a dynamic in that change…I say let there be ads…there will be kids in villages in Africa and central Asia that will not be in resonance with the 5$ @ month charge…these are the brothers and sisters that we need to connect with…one soul-one vote…this is the power that will shift the paradigm…I think we are being guilty of spiritual eliteism to say it insults our sensebilities to see ads …

Re: Subscription Survey!

Siona wrote:

Oh, my. Apollia?

I feel as though you've been listening in on the conversations with the team. Chris G, who posted above, had that same idea of a menu of services.

Neat. :-)

And I do love the idea of the one-super-low price (especially for the year, say?) that people could easily sign up to.

Yes, I like the yearly subscription idea as well.

And your notion of an alternative credit card? Let's just say it's far, far within the realm of possibility. :)

That's very nice to hear. :-)


Mark wrote:

Hi Apollia,

You're right in the flow with the heart of our discussions… as Siona said.  Thanks for sharing.  If you have more please share with us.

Peace,

Mark

You're welcome, glad you liked it.

Here's another idea I just thought of - Zaadz could advertise and sell its own merchandise to support the site.  Not a very original idea, probably, but, I'm saying it anyhow… :-)


Also, regarding the ads that are already there - maybe there could be a prominent “Advertise Here” link nearby the ads that are already there, since I'm not sure where to go to find out how to advertise on Zaadz.  Oh, wait, the “Our Sponsors” link leads to the info about how to advertise.  Well, perhaps that could be renamed.

A minimum commitment of two months for advertisers seems like too long.  I'm guessing some advertiseres might prefer to experiment and see how effective the ad is before committing to a long-term ad.

Also, the rates aren't available on the page with info about advertising - http://www.zaadz.com/ads - so I can't really comment on the exact prices since I don't know what they are.

But, judging by the ads that are already there, it makes me wonder if the ads are so high-priced at the moment that only already successful, prosperous ventures can afford them.

So, I think the rates should be low and reasonable enough so that practically anyone can place an ad, and perhaps on a weekly basis instead of a monthly basis.

Small, not yet as successful businesses could benefit tremendously from the attention and traffic they could get from an ad on Zaadz.

Oh, and maybe there could be a searchable classified ad section somewhere?  With _very_ low-price ads.


Ideas for what would be my ideal alternative credit card:

* A low, utterly unchangeably fixed interest rate, like 12% or less.

However, credit card interest rates can be so ludicrously high, a rate which is a bit higher might be acceptable and might still sound way better than a lot of the other cards out there.

I guess 18% is probably the highest that still sounds somewhat reasonable, but lower would be better, of course.

* No annual fees, enrollment fees, participation fees, or other pointless fees.

* Cash advances and balance transfers would have the same exact interest rate, and there would be no extra fees on cash advances or balance transfers.

* No required minimum monthly payment, due dates or deadlines of any kind.

* No late fees.  There would be no due date to be late for, and the card's profit would be a result of interest alone.  The profits would probably still be quite enormous, because quite a lot of people have so much debt they could never pay it all off at once despite wanting to, so they'll continue carrying a balance for a long time.

People should be permitted to pay whatever they want, whenever they want (or can).  Penalty fees just make an already bad situation worse.

* No overlimit fees.  The only consequence of one's balance being too high should be that the person can't make further charges to their card until they pay something in to lower their current balance until it's below the limit.

* No “we can change the terms at any time for any reason” slick legal clause in the terms.  Too many cards have this, which means the customer can end up with a card with terms totally unlike what they thought they were signing up for originally.  It makes “bait and switch” tactics by credit card companies possible.

* All who apply should be accepted.  There are doubtless tons of honest, struggling people who are absolutely desperate to get away from their current creditors, but who can't escape because their credit report is messed up and they're rejected for everything else they apply for.  (This is my situation).

I loathe Capital One and Providian so much I've finally reached the point of preferring to go bankrupt rather than pay them another cent, after all the thousands of dollars from jacked up penalty interest rates and multiple $39 late fees and over-the-limit fees which they've stolen from me (and countless others), and after all the other horrendous consequences that have resulted in my life from not having enough money due to being drained by them.

But, it would delight me to transfer all of my debts to the alternative card I just described.  I would consider a company with the reasonable policies I described above to actually deserve my money (unlike Capital One and Providian), and I'd love to support them in rescuing people from the slavery of debt, and in undermining the entire rest of the credit card industry. :-)

OK, those are all the ideas that come to mind for now. :-)

Best wishes,
Apollia

Re: Subscription Survey!

My business needs are a bit different than the community team-building tools you're considering. I build software and I need to be able to integrate tightly the software that I build into any site that I promote. What I really need from Zaadz is an open application programming interface (API), similar to what Facebook provides. I've already been building astrological plug-in applications for Facebook. I'd love to be able to do that with Zaadz, too, especially considering the folks in this community are likely to be interested in my work.

Do let me know if you plan to provide an open API for Zaadz; I'd love to be a beta tester.

Thanks for your continued work!

Tom

Re: Subscription Survey!

I chose the free option.  Although I do enjoy the “elitist” feeling of the site in that people have to apply to be here, but, I don't want it to feel like a country club.  I hope that people that choose not to pay will not be forgotten and suddenly stop recieving emails and the like. 

Also, generally I do not like ads on social networking sites because they are usually obnoxious and not very pleasant-looking.  I do like the ads on zaadz because they are actually businesses/ ideas that I would actually be interested in.  Plus, they're arranged in pretty little blocks that don't interfere with the rest of the site.

Re: Subscription Survey!

Hi all,
A question to you(!!) - if you were part of the team responsible for running Zaadz, and you knew that your company was not making enough to cover expenses, and you want to give it your all to turn the situation around (ie. keep it afloat/alive), how would you go about getting in some moolah? What ideas would you try out?
Certainly, the spirit of zaadz, as we all know it, must be retained. At the same time, the practical demands of running a website and paying salaries, etc need to be met.

I'm guessing that these are the questions that the team is grappling with, and the survey is an attempt to understand what zaadzters in general feel like, and to explore options with them.

Pls kindly bear in mind that the ads are not bringing in enough, to perhaps keep the show going on and to grow the site.

Given this background, personally speaking, i'm happy to support a subscription option. This could be monthly/annual. Logically speaking, there should be some added benefits to subscribers, of course. However, IMHO we should also continue the current model - ie. “free” membership based on application, whereby members can still access/post in most areas of zaadz. Perhaps in future, we could consider a nominal fee of say $1 to keep membership alive for 6 months, to be paid at the time of registration. (I do realize the contradiction - 'free membership' for $1 - anyway, i'm just sharing my thoughts!!).

There should also be a possibility of members being able to gift zaadz memberships as well. I'd love to give a zaadz membership as a gift, and would be willing pay for this, for sure.

There should also be the possibility of members being able to donate to zaadz. For sure, zaadz is touching the lives of many, and there should be a chance to give back to zaadz as well, voluntarily.

peace and blessings to all!

Re: Subscription Survey!

I like these ideas a lot KoolK.
Blessings, David

Re: Subscription Survey!

Hello,

Will the Zpro at 30-40 bucks a month allow us to sell advertising on our own enhanced sites? And will  the ad free  “free” site  allow this as well? Then we can monetize our own site..you make money and we do too? Sounds like concious capitalism to me..don't you think? Right now, the price appears to be very high–and maybe that will change when a list of features grows. There is also a big difference between 30 and 40 dollars. I'm curious..as a newbie here..did the pricing come after acquisition or before?

Yes, it is connected to a community..however, you can get great hosting for wordpress blogging software for $7 -$11.00 per month and the software has nearly unlimited plugins….for everything from community builders to advertising and monetizing options.

Hmm..actually the more I think about it..30-40 bucks is way too high–unless it can be monetized easily by subscribers.

And I agree wih another poster that assuming everyone has 60 bucks a year to spare is a bit elitist…

So, although I'm a person that believes in being able to make money, pay bills, even be very wealthy, etc….I think its always best to create prosperity vehicles for others as well…whenever possible–especially in the name of “community” and concious capitalism.

OK..there's my 2 cents worth…interesting dialogue here for sure.

patty