Gaia: Gaia Community Vision - Your Dreams. - Subscription Survey!

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://spiritquake.gaia.com — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:01:44 GMT

Hello,

Will the Zpro at 30-40 bucks a month allow us to sell advertising on our own enhanced sites? And will the ad free "free" site allow this as well? Then we can monetize our own site..you make money and we do too? Sounds like concious capitalism to me..don't you think? Right now, the price appears to be very high--and maybe that will change when a list of features grows. There is also a big difference between 30 and 40 dollars. I'm curious..as a newbie here..did the pricing come after acquisition or before?

Yes, it is connected to a community..however, you can get great hosting for wordpress blogging software for $7 -$11.00 per month and the software has nearly unlimited plugins....for everything from community builders to advertising and monetizing options.

Hmm..actually the more I think about it..30-40 bucks is way too high--unless it can be monetized easily by subscribers.

And I agree wih another poster that assuming everyone has 60 bucks a year to spare is a bit elitist...

So, although I'm a person that believes in being able to make money, pay bills, even be very wealthy, etc....I think its always best to create prosperity vehicles for others as well...whenever possible--especially in the name of "community" and concious capitalism.

OK..there's my 2 cents worth...interesting dialogue here for sure.

patty

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://haledavid1.gaia.com — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 05:46:11 GMT

I like these ideas a lot KoolK.
Blessings, David

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://KoolK.gaia.com — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:00:55 GMT

Hi all,
A question to you(!!) - if you were part of the team responsible for running Zaadz, and you knew that your company was not making enough to cover expenses, and you want to give it your all to turn the situation around (ie. keep it afloat/alive), how would you go about getting in some moolah? What ideas would you try out?
Certainly, the spirit of zaadz, as we all know it, must be retained. At the same time, the practical demands of running a website and paying salaries, etc need to be met.

I'm guessing that these are the questions that the team is grappling with, and the survey is an attempt to understand what zaadzters in general feel like, and to explore options with them.

Pls kindly bear in mind that the ads are not bringing in enough, to perhaps keep the show going on and to grow the site.

Given this background, personally speaking, i'm happy to support a subscription option. This could be monthly/annual. Logically speaking, there should be some added benefits to subscribers, of course. However, IMHO we should also continue the current model - ie. "free" membership based on application, whereby members can still access/post in most areas of zaadz. Perhaps in future, we could consider a nominal fee of say $1 to keep membership alive for 6 months, to be paid at the time of registration. (I do realize the contradiction - 'free membership' for $1 - anyway, i'm just sharing my thoughts!!).

There should also be a possibility of members being able to gift zaadz memberships as well. I'd love to give a zaadz membership as a gift, and would be willing pay for this, for sure.

There should also be the possibility of members being able to donate to zaadz. For sure, zaadz is touching the lives of many, and there should be a chance to give back to zaadz as well, voluntarily.

peace and blessings to all!

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://KellyBelly.gaia.com — Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:51:51 GMT

ah, I agree with that. I don't like the wording of that sentence, either. I must say it doesn't help those feel better about the Gaia take over that were originally a little wary of it. Myself included.

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://KellyBelly.gaia.com — Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:47:23 GMT

I chose the free option. Although I do enjoy the "elitist" feeling of the site in that people have to apply to be here, but, I don't want it to feel like a country club. I hope that people that choose not to pay will not be forgotten and suddenly stop recieving emails and the like.

Also, generally I do not like ads on social networking sites because they are usually obnoxious and not very pleasant-looking. I do like the ads on zaadz because they are actually businesses/ ideas that I would actually be interested in. Plus, they're arranged in pretty little blocks that don't interfere with the rest of the site.

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://tomsidebottom.gaia.com — Sun, 07 Oct 2007 02:05:43 GMT

My business needs are a bit different than the community team-building tools you're considering. I build software and I need to be able to integrate tightly the software that I build into any site that I promote. What I really need from Zaadz is an open application programming interface (API), similar to what Facebook provides. I've already been building astrological plug-in applications for Facebook. I'd love to be able to do that with Zaadz, too, especially considering the folks in this community are likely to be interested in my work.

Do let me know if you plan to provide an open API for Zaadz; I'd love to be a beta tester.

Thanks for your continued work!

Tom

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://apollia.gaia.com — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:35:09 GMT

Siona wrote:

Oh, my. Apollia?

I feel as though you've been listening in on the conversations with the team. Chris G, who posted above, had that same idea of a menu of services.

Neat. :-)

And I do love the idea of the one-super-low price (especially for the year, say?) that people could easily sign up to.

Yes, I like the yearly subscription idea as well.

And your notion of an alternative credit card? Let's just say it's far, far within the realm of possibility. :)

That's very nice to hear. :-)

Mark wrote:

Hi Apollia,

You're right in the flow with the heart of our discussions… as Siona said. Thanks for sharing. If you have more please share with us.

Peace,

Mark

You're welcome, glad you liked it.

Here's another idea I just thought of - Zaadz could advertise and sell its own merchandise to support the site. Not a very original idea, probably, but, I'm saying it anyhow... :-)

Also, regarding the ads that are already there - maybe there could be a prominent "Advertise Here" link nearby the ads that are already there, since I'm not sure where to go to find out how to advertise on Zaadz. Oh, wait, the "Our Sponsors" link leads to the info about how to advertise. Well, perhaps that could be renamed.

A minimum commitment of two months for advertisers seems like too long. I'm guessing some advertiseres might prefer to experiment and see how effective the ad is before committing to a long-term ad.

Also, the rates aren't available on the page with info about advertising - http://www.zaadz.com/ads - so I can't really comment on the exact prices since I don't know what they are.

But, judging by the ads that are already there, it makes me wonder if the ads are so high-priced at the moment that only already successful, prosperous ventures can afford them.

So, I think the rates should be low and reasonable enough so that practically anyone can place an ad, and perhaps on a weekly basis instead of a monthly basis.

Small, not yet as successful businesses could benefit tremendously from the attention and traffic they could get from an ad on Zaadz.

Oh, and maybe there could be a searchable classified ad section somewhere? With _very_ low-price ads.

Ideas for what would be my ideal alternative credit card:

* A low, utterly unchangeably fixed interest rate, like 12% or less.

However, credit card interest rates can be so ludicrously high, a rate which is a bit higher might be acceptable and might still sound way better than a lot of the other cards out there.

I guess 18% is probably the highest that still sounds somewhat reasonable, but lower would be better, of course.

* No annual fees, enrollment fees, participation fees, or other pointless fees.

* Cash advances and balance transfers would have the same exact interest rate, and there would be no extra fees on cash advances or balance transfers.

* No required minimum monthly payment, due dates or deadlines of any kind.

* No late fees. There would be no due date to be late for, and the card's profit would be a result of interest alone. The profits would probably still be quite enormous, because quite a lot of people have so much debt they could never pay it all off at once despite wanting to, so they'll continue carrying a balance for a long time.

People should be permitted to pay whatever they want, whenever they want (or can). Penalty fees just make an already bad situation worse.

* No overlimit fees. The only consequence of one's balance being too high should be that the person can't make further charges to their card until they pay something in to lower their current balance until it's below the limit.

* No "we can change the terms at any time for any reason" slick legal clause in the terms. Too many cards have this, which means the customer can end up with a card with terms totally unlike what they thought they were signing up for originally. It makes "bait and switch" tactics by credit card companies possible.

* All who apply should be accepted. There are doubtless tons of honest, struggling people who are absolutely desperate to get away from their current creditors, but who can't escape because their credit report is messed up and they're rejected for everything else they apply for. (This is my situation).

I loathe Capital One and Providian so much I've finally reached the point of preferring to go bankrupt rather than pay them another cent, after all the thousands of dollars from jacked up penalty interest rates and multiple $39 late fees and over-the-limit fees which they've stolen from me (and countless others), and after all the other horrendous consequences that have resulted in my life from not having enough money due to being drained by them.

But, it would delight me to transfer all of my debts to the alternative card I just described. I would consider a company with the reasonable policies I described above to actually deserve my money (unlike Capital One and Providian), and I'd love to support them in rescuing people from the slavery of debt, and in undermining the entire rest of the credit card industry. :-)

OK, those are all the ideas that come to mind for now. :-)

Best wishes,
Apollia

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://lightfield.gaia.com — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 07:52:19 GMT

One, Be Peaceful in this Oneness... Lightfield

Re: Subscription Survey!

Sat, 06 Oct 2007 07:08:38 GMT

Beth, I want to react on your following paragraph, as one who tends to question the links between economy and spirituality. you say:"For all the people who seem to have such strong knee jerk reactions against blending commerce with spirituality (or with anything nice, for that matter): I know it’s tempting sometimes to sit around on our meditation cushions, saying om all day, and endeavoring to keep that dirty business of making money out of our sanctuaries and in the boardrooms of the petroleum companies where it belongs, right? But I’m curious: Are all you spiritual seekers out there surviving on alms and the kindness of strangers, or do any of you have to pay rent? Did it ever occur to you that Zaadz does too? How many of us have any clue how much money it takes each month to keep Zaadz up and running (especially with the sophisticated technologies and high-end tools that the site offers)? How can we expect this amazing platform for community, growth and positive change to be there for us if we do nothing to support it (if we have the motivation and the means)? Is there a better way for Zaadz to flourish – or even exist in the long term – than to create revenue through offering an optional set of upgrades for those who want and are willing and able to pay for them?" For a start I think that obviously you think anyone questioning spirituality/commerce is obviously quite stupid! I think it may be quite more complicated than that! Some people are sitting on meditation cushion chanting AUM and still, have a brain! The number one domain to make money nowadays is: green things, well beeing and spirituality. Making money is certainly not bad. But there exists, dear Beth, some people who's motivation is solely this "making money"! And still, that is not bad! but I don't think it has to do with spirituality. Many companies and people are using the desires of people, their desire for health, harmony and peace, as a way to sell all kinds of things. That is the problem. So again, if this community could have been able to make the shift to a "own support" by some chared fees....Then fine... and perfect. This would have been interesting and innovative. But the thing has been sold to some shop keepers! LOL...this is so funny. For me Gaiam is selling things I don't need! You want to eat well? buy local! dress well? buy local? As for Yoga....it's funny but I've always thought that you just needed nothing to practice it...now I've learned there are all sorts of things I need to practice .Lol again. This is going towards a two gear society: 1) if your poor you eat bad foot and you dress with dangerous non-natural(?) cloths. 2) if you have money, you get your 100% cotton natural green made by happy man/woman in nice factory sweater! This two gear society is going to be the biggest problem of the next years, and I fear we, here at Zaadz, are not changing it, but have just been swallowed by it. Now I'm going back to my meditation cushion. Be well, Patrick

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://KoolK.gaia.com — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 07:04:34 GMT

Siona,
About exclusive pods - i still can't buy the idea of 'subscribers only' pods. The difficulty for me is perhaps due to my experience of the richness of zaadz, and this comes out of it's openness - anyone can contribute to any pod at any time.
If we have subscriber only pods, it seems to me that the depth and breadth could be lost.
Also, why restrict access to pods purely on the basis of whether one is a paid subscriber or not?
Also, the pods you mention are (i guess) created by the cultivator with a specific intent in mind, and this could perhaps be best achieved with limited/focussed contribution from members.
However, even for this survey, if u had a stipulation (say) that anyone who has purchased anything from zaadz/gaiam in the past could contribute, this itself would limit the richness and variety of the contributions.

I see your logic in adding specific functionality and charging for this, and am happy with this. However, i remain unconvinced about 'subscriber only' pods at the moment.

Also, i'm a little more open to the possibilities offered by gaiam than i was, at the beginning of the conversation - thanks for this!

much more love!

KoolK.

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://url.gaia.com — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 05:19:05 GMT

...good point Mimi...I imagine that there are 3rd world countries where the living income is 16 cents a day...

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://mettasyn.gaia.com — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 04:12:46 GMT

Hello,

There is a difference between private/public pods and subscribe/free pods. Almost all the networking sites offer the ability to create your own group/pod/network. That is a usual part of the game that offers PRIVACY more so than ELITISM. While breaking down the cost to a mere 16 cents a day is a good way to make the cost seem less prohibitive, it is also presumptuous that everyone here can comfortably fit it into their budget. There are varying levels of disposable income represented on this site. You saying that you can't imagine 16 cents a day being hard to find. This leads me to believe that you have been fortunate in life to not have known financial hardship. If this is true, I am very happy for you. I just ask that you/Zaadz be sensitive to the idea that not everyone here has had the same experience. At this point in my life, yes, 16 cents a day is easy to gather up as some days I visit Starbucks TWICE! However, I remember the days, in my 20's when I was lucky to visit Starbucks twice a WEEK!

I may have gone off on a tangent. Anyway, you and or Zaadz seem pretty committed to this idea of subscription pods. As other people have in this thread have asked, if the decision is already made, then why not just do it already?

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://url.gaia.com — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 03:03:59 GMT

...gosh this has generated a lot of responce !...as for me...I would rather see the ads as a flag along the right...I don't feel that this site is a milk cow...it is a network ...as the internet grows there will be more people from the 3rd world that are not afluent...and their voices will be needed...the internet is a vehicle for change as we have seen this last week in Myanmar...the next couple of years will see massive changes in the world/internet scene...Zaadz is poised to be a dynamic in that change...I say let there be ads...there will be kids in villages in Africa and central Asia that will not be in resonance with the 5$ @ month charge...these are the brothers and sisters that we need to connect with...one soul-one vote...this is the power that will shift the paradigm...I think we are being guilty of spiritual eliteism to say it insults our sensebilities to see ads ...

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://shaktirising.gaia.com — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 01:42:55 GMT

Well, I’ve been reading through this discussion for about an hour now, and I’m nowhere near the end of the comments, so forgive me if any of this has already been said – I’m sure at least some of it has been expressed already, but nevertheless, I’d like to share my perspective.

First, I’d like to just step back, look at the big picture and point out how great it is that Zaadz is actually soliciting community feedback before making any changes. To me, that says a lot about values and integrity right there – at least in part, it’s a “we” decision, not just a “them” decision.

Next, I could say a lot about the specifics of the options presented in the survey….I personally voted for option 4 and am very excited about the resonance engine and the seminars (among other things), but I also like some of the member suggestions, such as a tier with an annual fee comparable to that of a magazine subscription ($15-20/year). There are a lot of possibilities, and a lot of great energy fueling this conversation. But it seems that the heart of the discussion really goes much deeper.

Frankly, on a philosophical level, I applaud these changes for a variety of reasons. Practically, the enhanced service offerings are absolutely valuable and worth paying for, if you want them, and if not, don’t sign up for them. All the beauty, depth and richness of the beloved social networking aspects of the site will remain forever free and equally available – let’s not lose sight of that.

But perhaps even more important than the content of any particular new service being offered, I welcome these changes because they signal for me that Zaadz will have the resources to be around for a long, long time…and that makes me very happy. It is simple economics: Ensuring the financial solvency (dare I even utter the dirty word profitability?) of the site ensures its long term viability.

For all the people who seem to have such strong knee jerk reactions against blending commerce with spirituality (or with anything nice, for that matter): I know it’s tempting sometimes to sit around on our meditation cushions, saying om all day, and endeavoring to keep that dirty business of making money out of our sanctuaries and in the boardrooms of the petroleum companies where it belongs, right? But I’m curious: Are all you spiritual seekers out there surviving on alms and the kindness of strangers, or do any of you have to pay rent? Did it ever occur to you that Zaadz does too? How many of us have any clue how much money it takes each month to keep Zaadz up and running (especially with the sophisticated technologies and high-end tools that the site offers)? How can we expect this amazing platform for community, growth and positive change to be there for us if we do nothing to support it (if we have the motivation and the means)? Is there a better way for Zaadz to flourish – or even exist in the long term – than to create revenue through offering an optional set of upgrades for those who want and are willing and able to pay for them?

In closing, let’s not forget the whole idea behind conscious capitalism (on which the site was founded – re-read the mission statement if you’ve forgotten). We could look at this whole situation in a glass-half-empty kind of way, as some of you have, and say that Zaadz is selling out and becoming a corporate beast. We could leave Zaadz in protest, hole up in our off-the-grid cabins in the woods, grow our own food and refuse to participate in any money-making ventures. But how much change are we really effecting in the world if that’s our choice? Simply put, money is power, and money is a tool. Accordingly, I see the glass in this situation as being half full (really more like 7/8 full). I am thrilled that enough people care about making positive changes in the world that a site like Zaadz has become nothing less than a social phenomenon - so popular, so deeply loved by its members – which is truly manifesting the vision of changing the world through caring and community. If Zaadz thrives and prospers, then the multitudes of conscious businesses and entrepreneurs that Zaadz supports and empowers through the site are much more likely to prosper as well, which creates a pretty wonderful ever-expanding cycle of wealth in the hands of those who care (and who are likely to use their money to support other good things in the world)…It’s a powerful possibility.

To me, the opportunity to support this mission is priceless. I’ll gladly do without those two chai lattes a month to do so.

In love, growth and service,

Beth

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://indeerpark.gaia.com — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 23:18:19 GMT

Thank you, Siona for your reasonable response to my previous posting. I offer my apologies if I offended you. It appears I've missed the point. You are also completely correct in reminding me that zaadz has always ranked its members (via the original invitation). I came to this discussion after receiving an invitation on my personal email to take a survey. I did the survey (which was as I said in my earlier post well within the scope of business … Gaiam included) and then I was directed to this discussion group. After reading the opening question about the survey my response was simply to voice a personal apprehension about the escalating costs and proliferation of gates to access in the larger socio-economic world (and by extension the zaadz environment). Of course zaadz needs to make money to operate. I sincerely hope that can be achieved in a way that preserves equitable access for as many members as possible. If subscriptions are necessary then my wish is that these too shall have equitable access for all included. It occurred to me since I was so clearly off the mark it would be pertinent to review the zaadz mission statement: "We're gonna change the world. Our math goes like this: you be the change + you follow your bliss + you give your greatest strengths to the world moment to moment to moment + we do everything in our power to help you succeed + you inspire and empower everyone you know to do the same + we team up with millions like us = we just affected billions = we (together) changed the world." It’s a wonderful and inspiring sentiment. I fervently wish this to happen and I applaud all of you on the zaadz team as you try to make it so. As for the notion of conscious capitalism, I recently recommended a book by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin titled, Your Money Or Your Life. There’s a passage which I feel sums up the life-energy=Money=Capitalism puzzle quite well (at least in the United States). "Part of the secret to life, it would seem, comes from identifying for yourself that point of maximum fulfillment. There is a name for this peak of the Fulfillment Curve, and it provides the basis for transforming your relationship with money. It's a word we use every day, yet we are practically incapable of recognizing it when it's staring us in the face. The word is "enough". Here’s wishing that everyone in the zaadz community can define "enough" for themselves satisfactorily and that "enough" is equitable and compassionate towards Gaia.

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://aaron.gaia.com — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 21:36:42 GMT

It seems kind of strange to me that zaadz, which is now wholly owned by Gaiam, is asking the community for help in figuring out how to pay the bills. Shouldn't Gaiam have had a plan for this when they bought zaadz?

As far as an ad-free service, I haven't seen many sites that have been successful unless they are offering some other premiums along with it. And 'enhanced' services like zPro? Well, I'll just say that if zaadz was able to build a compelling service for businesses that they thought people would be willing to pay for, it would never have been sold to Gaiam in the first place.

The only real solution that makes sense to me is that Gaiam focus on making zaadz a marketing channel for their products and content. Of course, this would have to be done in a sensitive way, but it seems like the only real viable solution for a profitable, member-based, gaiam-ized community. The community would pay for itself through increased sales of Gaiam products and/or it would generate its own revenue through membership-based access to premium content.

The bottom line is pretty simple. If you want to make money, build a service that people will actually be willing to pay for.

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://siona.gaia.com — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 20:05:25 GMT

Oh, Jami. No worries at all. I have the best job in the world. :)

Thank you, though, for so easily seeing the other side, and for that recognition about squeaky wheels. I know, too, that all change demands a bit of processing, and I'm sure, in part, that this is a little of what's going on here. We had a very, very similar discussion when we first put ads on the site.

All part of the journey...

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://siona.gaia.com — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 18:01:54 GMT

KoolK...

No apology necessary. :) I like Zaadz the way it is, too, but for me this whole experiment is a bit like being in a relationship; I can love the person I'm with and not want anything about them to change, but I can love the person they're evolving into, too.

Thank you, too, for understanding that this is most definitely not about a 'takeover' or Gaiam as an entity asking us to do anything differently; how Zaadz does business is most definitely in our hands (daunting as that prospect might feel!).

And I know I've mentioned this before, but how can you say Zaadz "has never been about" being exclusive? You filled out an application to join, remember? :) And again, there are even now private pods that only certain invitees can join--we've always offered that ability to members. Offering a private pod to Zaadz supporters seems completely reasonable to me.

But thank you thank you thank you for your own openheartedness and participation in this ongoing dialog, and for showing up as yourself in all this. (I suppose if I were to ask one little favor, it's to extend a little appreciation to Gaiam, a company that's made up of some pretty incredible human beings who've been wonderful in making the Zaadz team feel welcomed and appreciated and cared for.)

Much love right back-atcha. :)

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://denversally.gaia.com — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 17:57:00 GMT

I've kept reading the discussion since I first responded yesterday - it's all fascinating. It's crystal clear that everyone loves the site and the community it enables. It's pretty obvious that prior to the Survey and ensuing discussion, few members had thought about Zaadz as a business entity with facitily/equipment/software/operating costs and a payroll. Now that this 'secret' is out of the bag, and we are asked to confront the harsh reality that it takes income to keep Zaadz afloat (what a shock!), it's clear we have different ways of confronting this particular reality, and mixed feelings about how to generate the necessary income. One idea that hasn't been considered yet is the option of supporting the site via monetary donations. Such contributions by members would help cover some of the expenses, and might reduce the need for additional ads, or high subscription rates, or exclusive levels of membership - at least for a while. The fact that "donations" are "voluntary" might make it easier for some members (we'll donate what and when we can afford to), and more comfortable for others (we're giving money because we want to, not because we have to). Whether or not this option flies, I'm ready to send a donation immediately. Just tell me how. Meanwhile, thanks to this on-going discussion, it looks like the Zaadz Team is getting more than enough feedback and ideas to develop a mutually compatible solution.

Re: Subscription Survey!

http://jami.gaia.com — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 15:44:05 GMT

Siona - I just want to say that I am sorry that you and the rest of the dev team are up against this storm. It kind of makes sense though that only those with negative feelings have a lot to say, because if someone agrees with the whole idea and thinks its great - why would they feel compelled to reply? Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I think you all have very hard jobs, and I am sorry you are dealing with all of the backlash of this. Hopefully, you'll whether the bad waves and find peace on the other side!
Jami