Gaia: Gaia Lounge - The Cafe Counter - Spirituality

Re: Spirituality

http://icka.gaia.com — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 06:09:22 GMT

well, you may not believe that there is actually a being that created every thing in seven days... but i do. and besides, how likely is it that we randomly appeared out of complete nothingness? i don't want to preach to you. because if i don't want anyone trying to invalidate my beliefs, then you probably don't want me to try invalidating yours.

p.s. maybe some people believe it because they want to think that this isn't all just for nothing. i think we have a true purpose here.

Re: Spirituality

http://aSimpleGnosis.gaia.com — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 07:29:49 GMT

Great Posts, this strikes at the heart of what "makes" us Human, and poses the Universal questions that haunt Humans about life, death, "to be or not to be," et al.

Wow, concepts galore...spirituality is not a concept, not a belief; THE SPIRIT in spirituality is the esse of all that is.

Spirituality IS a word reminding us Who we are, Spirits indwelling bodily forms.

We may not comprehend our Spirit natures,

nor sense the very realness of The Who we are, nor believe "in Spirit",

nor be willing to deal with our Spirit SELF that breathes our breath, beats our hearts, and is the Source of the electrical activity coursing through our brains and down our spinal chords informing every atom, cell and electron of life itself.

Yet, this disconnection we choose to entertain in our personalities as a disbelief, doesn't change Universal structure and functions one iota, and that includes our Spirit natures which are same as our Source - loving, kind, generous, et al,

albeit in our participation in our life and its outcomes, we will be either consciously aware of our intimate relationship with all that is and how & what we are creating, ORit will be subconsciously aware with hints here and there of our participation in something bigger than we have a grasp of, OR it will be unconscious and not aware of the actual nature of things and the creative role we are playing,

yet, that is the very nature of unconsciousness, is it not?? Unaware of what IS -not sensing, not connecting, not attuned, not sober to the actual TRUE nature of that one is immersed in…oblivious to what is happening or why it is happening as it does…cause "escapes us."

That is why it is difficult and a sad experience to observe how unawareness harms unintentionally, usually counter-intentionally, those who are not aware.

There is the recognition, that while you can "lead a horse to water, YOU CANNOT make 'em drink," for to do so would be to violate the Cosmic injunction of HUmanity's free will to be aware & sober to his inward realilty of Spiritual Infinite Essence as WHo he IS, OR to be unaware and, essentially 'drunk' and confused and blind to the TRUTH that sets free.

All the fancy concepts are a distraction from the most simple of freeing ideas to open oneself up to and allow oneself to entertain the implications of their being divine, not man ---

Be-ing in a body, experiencing being a human, actually, "taking a Cosmic cruise in a mighty fine body vehicle" for the express purpose of experiencing the sense of individuality only a physical form can lend to an essentially Spirit being of no form.

It is a fun game unless, connection with remembrance is broken, and amnesia sets in, followed by more and more entrainment in the virtual reality we have become so accustomed to that we truly think it/the body/life is what is real and the Spirit is the concept which we argue about every-which-way- but-sideways...

Now, from an aware perception, that is drunkenness and confusion running rampant.

Our need as a race for a good Cosmic AA rehabilitation is WAY OVERDUE; as a race, we are destroying ourselves with misunderstanding, misinformation, and we are as "in trouble" as any addict who has lost all control and become powerless and devoted to separating on so many levels that "we have come to think mastering separation is going to be useful to mastering our forces that make us tick"; (as Matt points out)

nothing could be further from what would work because this is the solution of minds drunk on separation as real and driven for 'specialness,' and drunken thinking is never clear, never has lucid clarity,

yet, the drunk is generally quite convinced, he's "got it right,"

only the sober ones KNOW differently or better, don't they?

The indwelling Spirit part of ourselves that has never lost connection with our original Source, is incapable of drunkenness. It is the sane sober VOICE calling infinitely to ourselves that is poignantly aware that any separation is poison, is the gap from Source that can only produce dis-ease and and drunken confusion

because as Spirits, (owned, believed or not) we are non-stop creating!!

Creating is a big responsibility and from moment to moment we create, for we can do nothing else being WHo We Are.

It behooves us to wake up, sober up our creative natures as Spirits, so we can create with full awareness of what, when, where, how, and why of all we do.

We are pure power running wild and blind, and that is insane. We create whether we admit it or not, whether aware or not, whether we want to or not, whether we like it or not, whether we believe it or not…

we are power surging beings out of touch with our intensely powerful selves; we create constantly by the essence of our very natures.

When, I got sober enough to realize this, I was profoundly freaked out; the whole AA thing is apropos to us as a race, too. I've been making amends, cosmically speaking, cleaning up the mess I CREATED in my lifetimes of being in a stupor and drunk on separation and specialness.

And, I see with my INward Spirit, clearer and clearer, which is more loving, gracious and kind, and concerned about the state of affairs of HUmanity. I cannot sit idly by in my life and say nothing, Love doesn't respond that way, now does it?

A safe, comforting and illuminating way to consider what You've read here, is to NOT judge this sharing as another opinion or some concepts Sharon has as pet feeling for, rather, approach it in a "yin" or receptive way with a questioning heart, that ponders, "What IF this is not nonsense, and is TRUE, then, how can that be??"

"If I am creating constantly no matter how aware I am of that or not...YIKES, what are the implications of that, and how can I bear looking at such without overwhelm or being burdened with guilt and shame, or fear?" "

"IF I am such a Spirit, I guess I'd also be the Source of infinite forgiveness, compassion, and encouragement and strength, and knowingness on how to "take care of my business of setting thing aright," after all AA people do it all the time from the personality level, and this is nothing compared to the gifts of my essential Spirit SELF, eh!!?

..I share this from experiential shifts and much of what I Know now, is NOT what I believed about my nature.

I've been humbled to realize, the Universe is HOW the Universe IS, not how I imagined it to be. I Am as MAI Creator made me, just as you are "made of the same stuff" I am made of, and not as we may think, but as God has envisioned us to be, as God is, as creators. I had to heal my way into being comfortable with such awareness, and I am glad I rose to the challenge of accepting what I wanted to resist for I am so much happier and peaceful now. I wish the same freedom and peace for you. It is a choice, and each one of us must choose back of our own volition.

"All are called, so few choose back." Let us make the choice that adds to the critical mass of changing that quote to, "…and all choose back!"

AND,

I am another you!

All to Love,

Sharon

Re: Spirituality

http://foreverforward.gaia.com — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:28:26 GMT

Dear FreeThinks,

I have met many people in my life who asked me this same question. Many of them are close friends of mine, and this is what I have told all of them. Spirituality is different for every person, I believe a lot of how you see your spirituality was developed as you were a child. Many people believe that religion and spirituality is how people deal with the world we live in and it's many catastrophic events. You could probably debate over what is and why some people do and some people don't feel the need to be spiritual forever. Considerably, I think that what Spirituality is really is the need found in a human being to better themselves and their world around them and looking to control or change their destiny, world, etc.

Not always is this true. Many people don't feel the need to be spiritual. Some people only feel the need to make money. Some people feel only the need to eat. Some people just want to be left alone, like my friend that wants to be a hermit and devoid of all other life but animals and trees and insects. I can't possibly see that for myself, but I accept his choice for a future. Yet, I think that Spirituality is just another outlet for humans to become a little more creative and a little more empowered to the world.

You ask why people believe that there's an essence of themselves that dwells separate from their minds. I believe this is because in all human beings we feel in control of our own bodies. And yet we want to master the forces that make them tick. At an attempt for this control people turn to spirituality and this "essence" to focus this mastership.

Re: Spirituality

http://smsiverd.gaia.com — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 06:55:25 GMT

Why someone believes in something I can't explain, because beliefs are based on a persons indivdual experiences through life. I can say that people are curious by nature, and since the first people where on this earth we have looked for meaning and understanding of the things around us. I believe that spirituality is the search for understanding of ourselves. Discovering who we are and finding the way to become the best person that we can become.

Re: Spirituality

http://be-otherworldly.gaia.com — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 04:32:47 GMT

Wow, look how my little thread has grown! I've been away for a while, you can tell; but I've come back, and I've been reading all of your responses. Some very interesting ideas being put forth here.

For those of you that "choose" to believe in the spirit; you are believing in something because...you want to? A few of you say that you believe in it because it helps you better yourself as a person. Ask yourself, why not better yourself for the sake of doing so, rather than for the sake of the nonmaterial being inside you that you're convincing yourself exists? I'm not the wisest person ever, but I'm pretty dang practical, for the most part, and I refuse to believe in something just because it might make me feel better to do so.

Tom, I really liked your shoes analogy, and I see how it can be applied to pretty much any matter of opinion, too. I myself wear some pretty crazy things sometimes. The analogy really put it into perspective for me.

To the person who said I oughta read The Celestine Prophecy again, I must say -- heck naw. Sorry, but the whole thing just seems silly to me. I'm not going to spend my time trying to make myself see auras and such; I figure that if I can't see 'em, either they don't exist or I'm going to need some sort of special tool to be able to see them (like the telescope helps us to see microscopic life forms).

Re: Spirituality

http://addresstofollow.gaia.com — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:30:47 GMT

Free thinks, way to go keep on free thinking.
I do agree, I think many get spirituality and religion mixed up. I was raised a Christian, became unhappy about certain aspects and investigated most major religions in an effort to find what was true for me. .In the end I rejected all dogma. I opened my eyes and looked around me at the wonders inherent in this world and in the universe and how fibonacci numbers and the golden mean recur again and again throughout all this, the wonders of ours and other creatures design and I concluded that it could not just happen by chance, that there was a loving amazing cosmic intelligence behind creation, an energy that was constant, pervading all, that no particular religion owns but many different beliefs point towards. I feel my spirituality, experience a close loving connection with this loving intelligence, i discarded all dogma. knowing for me this was home. We owe it to ourselves to ask these questions and not rely on second hand information which may or may not be right for us.

Re: Spirituality

http://sparrow48161.gaia.com — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 23:19:48 GMT

because we can... because it gives us a sense of who we are, where we come from, where we're going... because we remember... because we've made it important... because it interests us... because we know... because we feel it... because we want to...

Re: Spirituality

http://halfmoon.gaia.com — Sun, 25 May 2008 04:00:34 GMT

Hi FreeThinks,

Some of the stuff I read is so funny and so cool. This is the stuff people think about and can't say in the real world. It is a safe zone for us to bounce our proverbial thoughts off of, regardless what they are...kudos to you all!

When I was in high school...many years ago, my friend and I discussed God and spirituality. I still remember a lot of the conversation. My friend's thoughts were that were a huge scientific experiment and we were placed here to see what our outcome would be...if this is the case, we are failing miserably. We are killing ourselves and our environment. That said, she made me think. I am Catholic and when I was a kid, I was pretty involved in the church up until my teens. She made me question my beliefs. Then I had the questions of evolution and if there was no evolution, then incest was pretty prevelent for awhile (not something I want to think about).

However, when I was 23 and 26 I got into two car accidents. The first was not as bad as the second. But I was not hurt at all. Upon impact my car was lifted up in the air and sat back down like on a cloud, but facing in the other direction. The second, I was passed out and headed right towards a diesel truck. I had been under a lot of stress and I blacked out (no I was not drunk or high). It was 1:00 in the afternoon and I was headed to an interview in Seattle. I still can hear the voice that woke me, calling my name and telling me I needed to wake up. I had been in the right most lane and had veered diagonally across all lanes of traffic. I was headed right under the truck behind the front wheels of the trailer. I would have been decapitated. I barely woke up in time to swerve enough to be almost parallel with the truck. He caught me on his wheel and attached himself to my front wheel well on the drivers side. Then I was propelled back acrross all lanes of traffic and up an embankment. I still can't believe I did not hit anyone else. He and a woman pulled over to help and take care of me. I can still hear his calming voice telling me I would be okay. From that point on, I don't care what anyone says, I know deep inside myself that there is something/someone bigger than myself out there watching over us! And for that, I AM TRUELY GREATFUL!!!!!!

Thanks for listening!

Tami

Re: Spirituality

http://bobbloom.gaia.com — Sat, 24 May 2008 23:54:42 GMT

Beliefs are funny things FreeThinks. They are filters of perception. In other words, they form the basis of our own personal reality, but they have no effect on reality itself. The following little story will illustrate this idea.

Imagine that a hermit has been living in a small room all his life. That's the only world he knows. There are no windows in his little domicile, just a modest plank door that leads outside.

Many years ago, our little hermit had found a book in his library. The book suggested he go outside ...but our little hermit never did. He was simly too afraid, even though the book said it was amazingly fresh, alive with color and beautiful beyond imagination!

Of course, since he'd never peeked outside, the hermit's only reality was his little house. That's what was real for him. He believed it to be all there was. He believed it was safe, secure and and exactly where he wanted to be. On the other hand, the outside world had to be taken on faith.

One day, however, our little hermit woke up feeling frisky and decided to test what the little book suggested. This, of course, made our little man a bit afraid. Perhaps, he'd be attacked, he thought. But what the heck ...I'm really bored anyway; what have I to lose?

Reaching slowly towards the door, he unlatched the rusty iron bolt and threw it open wide. There, to his amazement, were brand new sights and sounds. They filled his eyes and ears ...and tantalized every fiber of his being. Gorgeous!

Now, having stepped outside, several new realities emerged for Mr. Hermit. First and foremost, he no longer had to take the world outside on faith; it was real. He'd stepped into it. Second, he realized that the world outside hadn't depended on his belief or lack thereof; it had been real all along. Quite unlike his little home, he thought; he realized he could never experience that the same again. The new reality had smashed his old paradigms (beliefs). Sure, he could go inside and close the door, but the room would never be the same. The memory of what he'd seen would always enter with him.

The moral of this story is quite simple. Truth is found, not in adopting new beliefs, but in dismanteling the ones you have. When you let go of all judgments (beliefs), what's left standing is what is real. The challenge here, of course, is that it's an inside job. No one else can do it for us; we have to do it on our own. But that doesn't mean, my friend, that we don't share our experiences or thoughts with fellow travelers along the way. That's all part of the fun!

Re: Spirituality

http://baretoedgirl.gaia.com — Tue, 20 May 2008 18:39:51 GMT

Wow. I've just been reading some of the amazing things people have written here. You have truly sparked a storm of philosophy and thought, very beautiful thoughts... I don't know if what I offer can amount to very much amongst so many others, but I guess my idea of spirituality is a little different from yours, and from a lot of people who wrote here. First of all, I've always thought of myself as a spiritual person, probably because I feel so much, and I have to believe that all of that feeling comes from something divine inside me. Maybe I'm one of those people who believes easily in something more than myself, who almost needs to believe it. But it's almost come easily for me. I've become more spiritual through the years, though my years are not so many yet. I guess because the more I see, the more there is that confirms my belief in an essential beauty, and in God, I suppose. To me, spirituality is that which truly makes a person religious. I don't mean that kind of religiousness that goes through the motions, that believes but does not feel. Religion and spirituality are two seperate ideas, but I think that they complement one another. Certainly religion without spirituality, without that depth of feeling and knowing, seems weak and empty, a food that fails to provide real sustenance and satisfaction. I think there are a lot of religious people who are unhappy, and they don't know why, and I think perhaps part of the reason why is that they cannot really make themselves feel what they practice, it is not real to them, really.

I don't know if this answers or pertains to what you originally posted, but I hope it helps... as to whether you're alone in your unspirituality, I don't think so. But then, my concept of spirituality is different, and I doubt that you are without it. Perhaps it is a presumption to say that, I don't know. This post is kind of old by now, so you've probably moved on and aren't interested in it anymore. If that is so, it's ok, but if not, these are my thoughts. I hope you find something of worth in them. :)

Samantha

Re: Spirituality

http://katelynspage.gaia.com — Fri, 16 May 2008 02:50:40 GMT

oh no. I saw this thread and I was like "oh man... stuff is gonna go down..people are gonna get pompous... dangit..." and I didnt read all of it, but it seems that hasnt been the case so far, so that is cool.

well, if you asked the question actually to be answered, and not just for it to be asked, then...

I believe in "spirituality" because I long to be better than I am. By "better" I mean more pure, more good in essence. My spirituality is Christ. I know that I tend to be self-centered- I get apathetic. My nature isnt bent on lying and murder, but isn't necessarily all that giving either. And it really makes me sick, because the very things I hate, I do. And the things I want to do, it seems I cant.

Spirituality doesn't exist in my life for spirituality's sake- it exists because God came after me and offered me a life of love, and for some reason love changes my nature and makes me new.
I dont like who I am without it, I long to be who I am with it, my spirit dries up without God's existance in my life. Spirituality is not in the least bit nebulous or new age to me, it simply refreshes and ignites my soul.

Re: Spirituality

http://yesvalli.gaia.com — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:39:47 GMT

hi bruce - folks

a study of the structure of consciousness . would that be an interior structure or an exterior structure? or two ways at once?
at the interior level we would have to consider whether the study is done on a seperate, nondual, or absolute (pure consciousness) state of being. suppose the study is done from a nondual state, there is unity so it is nonrelative, there is no other being. this is really fascinating as it implies a movement from newtonian prerelativity to einsteinian nonrelativity to nondual post relativity.
at the exterior level nature is studying itself as the the physicist studies the universe. quite evidently the nondual state is dynamic, so the study will be a live report. the technology involved will itself be alive. in a sense if iam telling my washing machine i want it to send an email it is allready adapting to do so. iam not being ridiculous entirely, nanotechnology maybe scheduled to perform such sequences. but the point really is that the user is still seen as seperate from the technology. which is interesting as the technology will have to be not just intelligent but sentient. i think we can dismiss this phobia about the grid taking over, cause this touch and feel grid may not be a dumbass. the domain of physics meantime coalesces with other domains. a multiplicity that replaces time and space as the operative instrument while not excluding it.
which leads upto a biggish question. is the nondual state nonrelative since it has transended physical reality while still in the physical realm? a nonrelativity that ironically implies pure action. and is that the same as the nonrelativity in which theres no other being? the mystics have said that and it seems fair to say that the relative makes no dent on the absolute( p c )
and there is the stable mystical worldview that p c wouldnt be aware of its own existence if it were not for the relative physical world. there would be no appreciation.
it kinda adds up, its like a one way street that works both ways. any thoughts?

this is a funky planet and theres no way out of here - valli

Re: Spirituality

http://brucegodden.gaia.com — Sat, 03 May 2008 03:32:25 GMT

I've been sudying my ass off on the question of what is spirituality, what is consciousness and what is reality for the last few years now - diligently studying it ....and I really know, feel with the depth of all my reasoning, rational understanding and analytical abilit,y and, what's more, with the depth of my intuitive non-cognitive part of my mind and being....that all paths and branches of knowledge lead to the same conclusion: It's all consicusness . . . reality, spirituality, the psyche . . . all the pure and undivided, non-dual, utterly entangled interbeing of one, unitive Meta-Consciousness.... Physics, metaphysics, theology and and psychology all, I believe, point to this same ageless truth.

If you all haven't read Gary Zhukav's "The Dancing Wu Li Masters", I highly reccomend it.

At page 31, Zhukav juxtaposes the views of Carl Jung (to many if not most, the greatest Western psychologist, therapeutic analyst and expositor of the workings of the psyche yet), and Wolfgang Pauli (a Nobel Prize-winning physicist), and comes to a most sartling, and liberating conclusion - a conclsion that most fair-minded, scientific readers will be hard-pressed to refute, I believe, if they press on and give Zhukav's layman's analysis of the great advances of 20th Century physics - relativity and quantum theory - a considered study.
Quoting Jung and then Pauli, Zhukav writes:

"According to quantum mechanics there is no such thing as objectivity. We cannot eliminate ourselves from the picture. We are a part of nature, and when we study nature there is no way around the fact that nature is studying itself. Physics has become a branch of psychology, or perhaps the other way round.

Carl Jung, the Swiss psycholgist, wrote:
The psychological rule says that when an inner situation is not made conscious, it happens outside, as fate. That is to say, when the individual remains undivided and does not become conscious of his inner contradictions, the world must perforce act out the conflict and be torn into opposite halves.
Jung's friend, the Nobel Prize winning physicist, Wolfgang Pauli, put it this way:
From an inner center the psyche seems to move outward, in the sense of an extraversion, into the physical world . . ."

Then Zhukav puts these two threads together to form his startling and liberating conclusion that is upheld as one peruses his history of modern physics from its Newtonian, pre-relativistic roots, through Einsteinian relativistic theory and quantum theory, ending with brilliant conclusions on Bell's theorem and the work of David Bohm - a physicist who likely missed out on the big "prizes" of phsysics, due to both McCarthyism and his metaphysical forays with the enlightened spiritual teacher Jiddu Krishnamurti.

Zhukav concludes, conjoining the insights of Jung and Pauli:

"If these men are correct, then physics is the study of the structure of consciousness" (emphasis added).

Thoughts anyone?

Re: Spirituality

http://brucegodden.gaia.com — Sat, 03 May 2008 03:31:53 GMT

I've been sudying my ass off on the question of what is spirituality, what is consciousness and what is reality for the last few years now - diligently studying it ....and I really know, feel with the depth of all my reasoning, rational understanding and analytical abilit,y and, what's more, with the depth of my intuitive non-cognitive part of my mind and being....that all paths and branches of knowledge lead to the same conclusion: It's all consciousness . . . reality, spirituality, the psyche . . . all the pure and undivided, non-dual, utterly entangled interbeing of one, unitive Meta-Consciousness.... Physics, metaphysics, theology and and psychology all, I believe, point to this same ageless truth.

If you all haven't read Gary Zhukav's "The Dancing Wu Li Masters", I highly reccomend it.

At page 31, Zhukav juxtaposes the views of Carl Jung (to many if not most, the greatest Western psychologist, therapeutic analyst and expositor of the workings of the psyche yet), and Wolfgang Pauli (a Nobel Prize-winning physicist), and comes to a most sartling, and liberating conclusion - a conclsion that most fair-minded, scientific readers will be hard-pressed to refute, I believe, if they press on and give Zhukav's layman's analysis of the great advances of 20th Century physics - relativity and quantum theory - a considered study.
Quoting Jung and then Pauli, Zhukav writes:

"According to quantum mechanics there is no such thing as objectivity. We cannot eliminate ourselves from the picture. We are a part of nature, and when we study nature there is no way around the fact that nature is studying itself. Physics has become a branch of psychology, or perhaps the other way round.

Carl Jung, the Swiss psycholgist, wrote:
The psychological rule says that when an inner situation is not made conscious, it happens outside, as fate. That is to say, when the individual remains undivided and does not become conscious of his inner contradictions, the world must perforce act out the conflict and be torn into opposite halves.
Jung's friend, the Nobel Prize winning physicist, Wolfgang Pauli, put it this way:
From an inner center the psyche seems to move outward, in the sense of an extraversion, into the physical world . . ."

"If these men are correct, then physics is the study of the structure of consciousness" (emphasis added).

Thoughts anyone?

Re: Spirituality

http://1happylosersdiet.gaia.com — Fri, 02 May 2008 17:37:53 GMT

Asking people why they believe in spirituality is like people asking you why you do not believe in spirituality. Why ask why?

We all believe what we believe and what "works" for us. Beliefs fill the mental, psychological, and emotional needs we have to find some meaning in life. Everyone believes in something and that something is part of their guidance system for living - their "spirituality."

Spirituality, I believe, is of the collective mental, psychological and emotional nature of every person. It's what "moves" each person to do what they do in life and act how they act in any situation. I believe every human being is spiritual. To give or not to give, to meditate or not, to pray or not is still spirituality in action. Spirituality is living what we believe as opposed to faith which is a religion we choose to particpate in.

This is what "works" for me and is not meant to provoke anyone else's beliefs.

Great question...and lots of interesting responses.

Re: Spirituality

http://tracy-luca.gaia.com — Fri, 02 May 2008 16:46:16 GMT

Bruce,

Thank you for that post. It helps to articulate for me my own beliefs/awareness/knowing.

Spirituality for me is the realization that consciousness--that internal awareness--is the true reality. Consciousness creates physical reality, or the illusion of it.

I'm not sure that physical matter really exists--rather it is a collective projection of spirit. I do not believe that each of us is a separate bag containing a separate spirit. We are all one super-conscious spirit, creating and experiencing infinite realities simultaneously.

Re: Spirituality

http://brucegodden.gaia.com — Thu, 01 May 2008 01:50:31 GMT

Spirituality, as I understand it is not a belef or a belief system - it is experiential. It's not about beliefs.

Spirituality is about living and living consciously, but beyond the rational and analytic processes of the mind...It doesn't mean that 'spirit' is separate or apart from the mind, it only means that there is a much deeper part of our being than the active, moving and restless "stream of though", the inner dialogue we can all be aware of, the restless thnking which is not 'us' per se.

I scoffed when exposed to this news when I was 28....after all, I was very intelligent, knew a little about a lot of things, knew a lot about a very few things, and had my own beliefs based on the rationality of science....but reason can only take one so far.

Carl Jung, a medical doctor and perhaps the greatest Western psychiatrist yet, wrote about there being a deep, spiritual thirst for 'wholeness' in every human. He hesitated because he found himself to be greatly misunderstood at the time of writing in 1961, shortly before his death - a much less informed, and liberated time - let alone the forty or fifty years prior to that in which he principally worked. Jung hesitated to aver that understood "in medieval terms" - monks, chivalrous knights, barons, fiefs and The Church etc. - what fuelled humankind's various addictions (to booze, drugs, conspicuous consumption, sex etc.) was a spiritual thirst for "union with God". (Remember, folks, Jung was saying this in "medieval terms").

He noted that this was the highest "religious" or "mystic" experience one could experience. It was the kind of experience, the state of consciousness and being, that up to then had been described only by people like Bhudda, a Christ, Shakespeare, a St. Francis, Walt Whitman etc. - an "enlightened" state of consciousness and being - medieval Christians called it, and still do, "mystic union".

Jung noted that to have such an experience one must be on what he called a "path", a discipline - and a path to "higher consciousness", and a path, "in reality". Not 'shrooms, not booze, not pot, threesomes or Jimmy Chu shoes (did I spell that right?). This is a path through the mind to the deeper mind or soul - or the "psyche" - as it was referred to in ancient Greece. Some refer to it as the "Overself".

One could find oneself thrust onto such a path in three ways, Jung wrote. First, by an act of "grace" (a return to the unmerited, childlike state of being and awareness, that eventually succumbs to conditioned analytic reasoning. It is a word well worth investigating in the dictionary and online.) Second, tone can find oneself on a path hrough a personal and honest contact with friends - and, by that, I take it Jung meant not superficial contact, not a swapping of ideas and stories that we tell and share about our selves, but innermost heart-to-heart, psyche-to-psyche, soul-to-soul contact about the matters that are most dear, most important, and most real to us. Third, Jung said that one can come to such a mystic/spiritual/highest-religious experience by "a higher education of the mind, beyond the merely rational."

So, you see, spirituality is a state of consciousness of the mind, but not the way we are conditioned to think about it in purely Western, rational and empirical scientific terms. It can be experienced, as Patanjali pointed out 2,500 years ago, by re-conditioning or "stilling" the thought-waves of the mind. But, spirituality is definitely not a matter of belief, understanding, reason or even knowledge. Well, perhaps knowledge, but only experiential knowledge.

A spiritually-centered state of consciousnes and being is a matter of experiencing and contemplating life, our being and our world existence, without analysis and reasoning - beyond the classification, naming and ordering of things, but rather 'wholistically' and without the restless mentation of the undisciplined and conditioned-to-restlessness, modern mind.

"Thinking without awareness," writes Eckhart Tolle, a thoroughly modern yet enlightened being, "is the chief dilemna of human existence." And so it has been for immemorial time. That, say those who knew and realized a lot more than I ever will, is the wisdom of all ages and continents, that is humankind's perennial philosophy.

Try it for yourself, with open-minded investigation. "Contempt prior to investigation", wrote Herbert Spencer, as great a scientist and philosopher as most, is a sure "bar" knowledge and learning; and, I would add, to all scientific progress and understanding itself.

Peace, Peace - Peace of Mind, and blessings,

Bruce

Re: Spirituality

http://mandalas.gaia.com — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:15:10 GMT

Free Thinks

Your Questions are wonderful. Inquire deeply into the nature of exsistance as you are doing already. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and the door will be opened. Somebody said that. See if it is true.

with much love,
Joy

Re: Spirituality

http://fenskeee.gaia.com — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:13:34 GMT

for me, spirituality is following God's call for me in my life. it does not require yoga, a special diet, a "good deeds" chart or a list of movies i'm not allowed to see. it is living a full, passionate life for God. it's not about "religion". religion tends to be a slough of rituals and lists and requirements. that's not what God is all about. He believes in LOVE and wants you to do the same.

my faith, or "spirituality" as you call it, consists of two things. JESUS and LOVE.

THAT is spirituality to me.

Re: Spirituality

http://karivalli.gaia.com — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 09:53:42 GMT

Wow.
coding=mysticism
zaazd=religion
hacking=spirituality

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Conclusion: Spirituality is the purification of a religion. Censorship of sorts -- Zaadz staff :p

But I assure that mysticism is the thing.