Gaia: Gay Spirituality - General Discussion

What I didn't Ask For

http://CardinalOfAllColonels.gaia.com — Sun, 31 May 2009 02:51:04 GMT

Lots of gays are critize and labeled form one end of world and around to the other. One tends to ask one's self why can't I just fit in, as everyone else. One thing that I personally cant understand is why people single out gays. Is it because, we are different or is it because we are the same with different interest? Or is it because we simply dont ask for a lot, but to be apart of a community?
What gays didn't ask for, was to be look upon as low or disgusting. We didn't ask to be snarled at when taking an occasional walk in the park. We definitly didn't ask for peoples commenting, judgment, knowledge, questioning or even styreotyping. But most heteros of the world seem to do these things. Then I ask, why? After all, we are the same.

Re: Gay Male Identity: An Separate Identity Or an Identity at All

http://MikeyDineen.gaia.com — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:52:27 GMT

I tend to agree with Pieter (hope I got the name right) . I grew up in rural Ireland with no gay role modles nor stereotypes, I'm glad kids today have some sort of role-modle (indeed the more the merrier-the gayer?)

Re: Would You Marry? Is marriage a good institution? In Californi

http://nohealani.gaia.com — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:03:59 GMT

Here is another link about the civil rights movements that are happening now in Hawaii:
http://www.towleroad.com/2009/02/thousands-rally-against-civil-unions-in-hawaii.html

I always thought of my home as most people do... a paradise, and don't get me wrong, it still is, but it was an eye-opener to see just how many people are still ignorant in their perceptions of the way they think things should be. Being born and raised here, there is a "gay" family member in 9 out of 10 families here in Hawaii, which is why I guess this rallying against civil rights came as a shock to me. In ancient Hawaiian culture to be a transexual was to be a divine entity or they were once recognized as being viewed a demi-God having both masculine and feminine qualities. I guess i'm saddened and surprised at how infectious ignorance can be, but we are continuing the efforts in Hawaii to take this all the way in hopes that it will be at least a stepping stone for the future.

seasons greetings

http://MikeyDineen.gaia.com — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:43:13 GMT

A note from John Doherty

Re: Would You Marry? Is marriage a good institution? In Californi

http://MikeyDineen.gaia.com — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 10:39:30 GMT

This is a link on some breaking news on gay marriage in California.
please tell me what you think,

Some Lesser Known Symbols

Gender Symbols. The pointed Mars symbol represents male and the Venus symbol with the cross represents females. Mars symbolizes a warrior with an arrow and Venus symbolizes a maiden with a mirror.

peace, Mike

a new ancestor

http://jjs1952.gaia.com — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:59:30 GMT

Here is a message from a man in Philadelphia who has been a Radical Faerie for as long as I can remember. I think he was born one. Chris is an amazing person and a leader in the gay community health services as well as creating a leadership program...

But this is not about him this is about a fellow leader and elder and now an ancestor... not long ago I had an experience where I said that I don't have "family" ancestors and stories what I have is my Gay family history and stories because that is where I come from. I share this story and memories so that the young men and women know why they have the freedom they have today, as gay men and women.

John Burnside, partner of Harry Hay, an inventor of kaleidoscopes and
an important figure in the history of gay liberation, died on Sunday,
September 14th, 2008 in San Francisco, CA of complications due to
brain cancer. He was 91.

I really loved John. He lived for the past decade or so in a pretty
little house on 17th Street between Sanchez and Church in the Castro.
The house has clouds painted all over it. He and Harry Hay lived
there together until Harry died in 2002. They were watched over by a
group of Radical Faeries called the Circle of Loving Companions.

I owe my meeting with Harry and John to SF faerie David Smith who, one
day in 1999 ran into me on Castro Street and said, "Do you want to
come meet Harry Hay and John Burnside?" That was like asking me if I
wanted to meet Ethel Merman--- OF COURSE!!

So we walked over to 17th Street and met Harry and John. The thing I
remember thinking when I met them was that John had a very very sweet
personality. He was much more gentle and unassuming than Harry. And
it was clear that he had dedicated himself to Harry and Harry's work.
And that was quite a thing to be dedicated to-- because Harry Hay was
always writing and organizing and speaking and rabblerousing.

I'm thinking how lucky some of the lions of the LGBT movement were
(Barbara Gittings and her partner Kay Lahusen also come to mind) that
they had these dedicated partners who were committed to supporting
them in their activism and vision. John was obviously that way with
Harry.

After Harry died, it was a bit easier I think to see the power of John
Burnside. With Harry passed on to the ancestor world, John could
really be present to the people he was with and not have to operate as
an intermediary energy for Harry. Harry's flame took up a lot of
oxygen! And it was nice to have some years where I could sit with
John and hear about him and just see how incredibly sweet and
delightful he was.

I also bonded with John as a fellow sissy. He had a particular sissy
style that resonated with me-- gentle, cultivated, and subtly
powerful. He was one of the people who helped clarify for me the
incredibly powerful role of sissies in the world.

But John is important to gay leadership and radical faerie leadership
because he exemplified a style of leadership that often goes
unacknowledged- - a behind-the-scenes- supporter of a great public
figure. These supporters are crucial to our leadership, and yet their
contributions are often unacknowledged because they are purposefully
behind the scenes.

What would it look like to do an inventory of our behind-the-scenes
leadership, and to quantify and qualify its impact?

When I heard about John's death, I took a moment to really think about
his great spirit and his dedication to the principles of gay community
and radical faerie consciousness. I encourage each of you to do the
same-- just take in for a moment that on Sunday, September 14th, 2008
a great man transitioned from elder to ancestor. And the question
now, to each of you, is how to make him into a meaningful ancestor for
yourself and for us.

__._,_.___

Re: Looking for some clarity...

http://dale.gaia.com — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 03:44:40 GMT

Marcus, you will only be about 3 hours from me. I live outside of Kansas City. If you ever come up this way, let me know!

Blessings,
dale

Re: Would You Marry? Is marriage a good institution? In Californi

http://perfectgrace.gaia.com — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 01:56:10 GMT

I wouldn't marry. I have been with my 'wife' for almost 12 years. We are DoMos (domestic homosexual partners) in California so we can be protected legally. However, I think the whole institution of marriage is messed up. No other legal contract is gone into without first having to have all the legal ramifications of the connection described in detail. I think that if people want to marry, they should have a spiritual union (regardless of the orientation) and then if they want to join their lives legally, that should be done through the court systems, since the divorce has to be done so. It needs to be more difficult to marry. Perhaps it should only be done if children are involved.

Re: Looking for some clarity...

http://marcuss33.gaia.com — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:19:34 GMT

Dale,
Wow, thanks for that list. I have done some web searching and found some churches in Topeka, KS(where I will be moving to in December) that are very open. This has helped a great deal!

Re: Looking for some clarity...

http://dale.gaia.com — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:46:37 GMT

You're welcome, Jeff, and you ARE Love!!

Blessings,
dale

Re: Looking for some clarity...

http://jjs1952.gaia.com — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:08:24 GMT

Dale,

Thanks for adding the list, great... I was going to do that but I was waiting for some response...

There are great choices out there if you look around, and depending where one is...

I am Love, Jeff

Re: Looking for some clarity...

http://dale.gaia.com — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:39:40 GMT

Hi, Marcus,

I agree with Jeff that spirituality is personal walk, and is different for each person. However, if you are looking for spiritual community in the form of a church, there are many churches that are "open and affirming", meaning they not only accept, but celebrate, GLBTI persons.

Here's a short list:

Unity (New Thought)
www.unityonline.org

Religious Science (New Thought)
www.rsintl.org or www.religiousscience.org

MCC, the Metropolitan Community Church (GLBTI, Christian)
www.mccchurch.org

UCC, United Churches of Christ (Progressive Christianity)
www.ucc.org

You can also do a web search for "open and affirming" or "progressive Christianity".

Hope this helps!
dale
Sacred Place Ministries
www.asacredplace.net

Re: Looking for some clarity...

http://jjs1952.gaia.com — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:45:03 GMT

Marcus,

Many years ago I was told to church shop, if church is what you need at this time in your life.

Spirituality has nothing to do with going to church or what church you attend...

What if found usually it was my own uncomfortableness, my homophobia that caused me to thing people where looking and talking...

God loves you, He/She created us this way! Love God, Love yourself always...

I am Love, Jeff

Looking for some clarity...

http://marcuss33.gaia.com — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:44:57 GMT

Hey everyone. New to this site, this group, and to being out. I have really struggled with my spirituality ever since I came out and would like to see how others have handled this...To me, I just feel uncomfortable going to my home church because I can feel the weird looks, see people talking, etc. I go to a small church where I know EVERYONE so this makes it extremely difficult. Any hints on how to handle this better?

Re: Would You Marry? Is marriage a good institution? In Californi

http://merykk.gaia.com — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:25:31 GMT

Well, I am married. So yes, I would. :)

I never imagined that my life would include marriage and children. In fact, I planned to grow up and become the quirky and fun aunt, possibly with many cats. When I met my husband, that changed. I saw a man that I could spend my life with, a man I could raise children with, and I was alright with that. We were deeply committed from very early on in our relationship, and legal marriage only entered into the equation for legal and financial benefits. We've been married for almost two years, and we have a beautiful daughter. It's a shame that had my mate in this life been a woman, I wouldn't have been able to legally marry her.

But, I agree with others that the spiritual and emotional commitment is more important than the legality. Often, that commitment is missing in today's marriages.

Also... It seems that today, many people don't know how to deal with the sharing of space, the sharing of responsibilities, compromising, etc. Marriage takes a lot of work. The moments we see exemplified in our culture are not real, and I think we expect sunshine, roses, and passion 24/7/365 for the rest of our lives. That's just not how marriage is. Like everything else, the relationship grows and changes as we grow and change. Two people who marry will not be the same two people in 2 year, 10 years, or 30 years. Instead of accepting the change in their spouse, reexamining the relationship and moving forward, it seems that many couples get stuck in the "this isn't what I signed up for" mentality. When in reality, it is very much what they signed up for, whether they realized it or not.

Re: Would You Marry? Is marriage a good institution? In Californi

http://satyaseer.gaia.com — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:06:30 GMT

I'm not sure if I would marry, but everyone should be treated fairly and the playing field should be leveled for all. Currently on this issue we are treated separate and not equal because of the values of those who are fearful of our way of "being." Stupid, eh?

Soul Beneath the Skin

http://jjs1952.gaia.com — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 12:58:06 GMT

David Nemmons has written this wondrous book Soul Beneath the Skin, as well created a movement called Manifest Love.

The book has been around for a while, yet it capture the spirit of who and what gay men are and can be.

I think what he has done with this book is taken what Harry Hay, Mark Tompkins, Mitch Walker and many other great gay writers and thinkers into a more coherent and magical practical life action.

So if you have read this book lets discuss your thoughts if not let get some and create a discussion....

Re: Would You Marry? Is marriage a good institution? In Californi

http://jjs1952.gaia.com — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 12:50:46 GMT

I would marry.... is marriage really an institution? Or a loving spiritual commitment to another person.

Yes all the practical things that others have shared here, taxes, care-taking, visits in hospital, survivor benefits, etc are all great gifts to have. These are social and human rights actions not institutions, these are rights of all people.

All of this struggle to gain marriage rights has taken our attention away from who and what gay people are... I use gay people as all inclusive, maybe I should use queer... anyway.

Our being gay sets us aside from the rest, our gayness is our gift to the world, our spirit is many gendered, and all gendered...

We have sold our gayness to corporate America, we have given our Pride events to banks, beer makers, insurance company's. A pride event is suppose to be a March, we are rebelling in a peaceful active way. Being ourselves, creatively, joyously while saying, we are here we are queer and we are not going away, see us, here us...

Let's march for human rights, equal rights for all humans, not just our right as gays to get married, but to assure everyone has a right to visit their sick Lover, be granted their inheritance of years/time spend together. rights to claim, their partner as their partner...

Volunteer????

http://jjs1952.gaia.com — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:05:34 GMT

Hi everyone! Mikey_Dee suggested I join you guys, so here I am... he also suggested I share an experience I just had last week with the folks at the GLBT Film Festival in Philly.

I had volunteer to do advanced sales. I went to the training which was about an hour. went through so computer stuff for selling tickets, etc... no problem it is a matter of practical experience. So in a couple of days I did my first three hours... it was fun, there is always suppose to be a "manager" there and we worked together well. He was not that much more informed than I . So we kind of stumble around, making mistakes, learning by experience..

So through I all of this I understood that the Festival was looking for some "paid" works to be the "managers" or staff... so I called about that.

I had done two shifts, 6 hours by then... my next shift, the person who we where trained by ask me to come to her office and discuss my desire to be "staff" that is what I thought she ask me to come there for?

So I went to the other side of town, sat in her office, there was another women there as well. And she began to ask questions of how to sell tickets, create pass's, sell membership. etc. all went well. The she ask when I was avaible, and she needed someone tomorrow to fill in for the guy who I had been working with I said fine, and we filled in a bunch more hours, and off I went.

So next morning I am at the store and the first customer has some tricky questions, so I call her... I explain what I need to find out and she act annoyed... but we work it out. and she was going to a meeting.

So I proceed with my day, which to me was good, I think I sold over thousand $ worth of tickets... I felt good, I had no problems.

Than at 7 pm I get a phone call from her, and she says I don't think this is going to work out, I was like What? So I seek to get her to be more clear in what she is asking about, the next "manager' who did not come in until a few hours after had questions, and I was being accused of not doing things correctly, not calling, and a list of infractions that just wouldn't do.

So here I was trying to do my best with what I had to work with... Mostly this was volunteer, even if they had paid me it was small, few weeks work at best.

I was enjoying the experience, meeting the guys and girls, being social, doing my bit. and wam, I feel attacked, taken for granted, dismissed, over the phone and via email... My sense of being was completely thrown, it has taken me days to understand what had gone on, emotionally, spiritually for me.... trust, safety, flew out the door...

I am not sure if any of this makes any sense to you all... and I am not usually this "heavy"

Thanks for reading if you did!

I am Love, jeff

Re: Gay Male Identity: An Separate Identity Or an Identity at All

http://gaianathos.gaia.com — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 13:40:11 GMT

Once again, it is a large part of our society to place labels in order make everything cut-and-dried. We love to categorize. Sadly, it comes down to the connotation of the word instead of the denotation, thereby that causes confusion.

In trying to identify ourselves, perhaps we categorize ourselves at the same time. Strength in numbers, you know.