Gaia: Holosync - Non-Centerpointe sound technologies - Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

Re: Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

http://pelle.gaia.com — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:59:19 GMT

Let us know how it works :)

Re: Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

http://kendoji.gaia.com — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 22:39:31 GMT

Quick update - I've managed to borrow the full set of LifeFlow CDs. I'm very curious about the lower levels i.e. whether you can really entrain straight to a steady 1 - 3hz. :-)

Re: Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

http://itlandm.gaia.com — Wed, 20 May 2009 14:39:58 GMT

I am now on level 9 of LifeFlow (9 Hz). I still find it more of a distraction than a help toward meditation, but then again the same is even more true for Holosync (which I still use in the morning to wake up).

The 9Hz track seems closer to the normal state of my brain when meditating silently, but still not there. Perhaps next time? I will see if I can keep you updated. The price is insigificant by Norwegian standards, so I will probably continue to subscribe all the way through even if it ends up to be just out of curiosity.

Re: Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

http://kendoji.gaia.com — Wed, 13 May 2009 12:05:10 GMT

That's my understanding too, especially when the target frequency is far from normal waking frequencies. At LifeFlow they argue that the brain can't entrain properly to a moving target, and that it takes 8 minutes at one steady frequency for entrainment to occur. In my own testing this modality works just fine for alpha and high theta sessions, but I haven't gone lower than about 7.8hz with those. Like I wrote previously, I'm curious about how the lower LifeFlow levels work, seeing as their final level is supposed to entrain to around 1hz without any ramping at all.

Re: Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

http://Excelsiors.gaia.com — Sat, 09 May 2009 16:43:03 GMT

It has been my understanding that "ramping" as it's called is necessary to gradually coax the current brain wave state into the desired brain wave state. Is this not true?

Re: Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

http://pollyanna.gaia.com — Fri, 08 May 2009 18:15:32 GMT

Thanks, Pelle, for moving the thread to where it should be; and thank you so much Kendoji for that reply. Wow! That is why I love this place.
Polly

Re: Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

http://kendoji.gaia.com — Fri, 08 May 2009 11:35:52 GMT

Yep, as in any soundtrack where the target frequency goes progressively up or down. Technically, the Holosync Dive soundtracks 'step' down by small increments, but essentially I'd still call this ramping.
LifeFlow doesn't ramp i.e. the target frequency stays the same for the length of the soundtrack.
Ken

Re: Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

http://Excelsiors.gaia.com — Fri, 08 May 2009 11:28:31 GMT

Ken,
When you say "ramping" do you mean progressively moving one from Beta, to Alpha, to Theta, and then to Delta brain wave states?
Thanks,
Larry

Re: Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

http://pelle.gaia.com — Thu, 07 May 2009 23:39:55 GMT

Excellent information Ken, thanks for sharing that with us.

Pelle

Re: Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

http://kendoji.gaia.com — Thu, 07 May 2009 10:55:01 GMT

Hi Larry,

Perhaps I'm not using the word entirely correctly, but I'll try and explain what I mean. The Transparent documentation defines dissociative as "a mental state where all thoughts, worries, feelings and even time/space drifts from consciousness". In terms of entrainment they specifically mean tracks designed to create a dissociative state by giving different stimulation to each hemisphere.

What I mean with the word, is rather the way that Holosync tends to take me into a very absorbed state with a sense of contracted consciousness, even if I remain relatively alert. The bells in the Dive are, I believe, designed to maintain some clarity of awareness, but nevertheless I experience Holosync as sinking into a very absorbed state, perhaps comparable to a focused concentration-type meditation where consciousness of other objects falls entirely away.

The LifeFlow track, with it's many layers, effects and random sounds, definitely took me to a relaxed state, but I was more readily able to maintain the clarity of awareness of a 'just sitting' style of meditation. My own equivalent track, on the other hand, entrains me effectively but with a slightly more 'zonked' absorbed feeling (which is what I am calling 'dissociative').

Of course, the 10Hz target frequency in the LifeFlow track is very different from the delta frequencies in Holosync, so I'm not sure how well this comparison holds up. I am curious about the LifeFlow delta tracks, and would love to try them one day to see if it's really possible to entrain directly to 1Hz without any kind of ramping.

Ken

Re: Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

http://Excelsiors.gaia.com — Thu, 07 May 2009 09:31:12 GMT

Ken,
Would you explain your use of the word "dissociative" in your description of one of the affects of listening to Holosync CDs in particular.

Thanks,
Larry

Re: Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

http://kendoji.gaia.com — Thu, 07 May 2009 07:59:23 GMT

Hi Polly,

I stumbled across the Project Meditation website a couple months ago, and was struck by two things. Firstly, the usual hyperbole and assertions about it being 'the best and most powerful thing EVER' and secondly, the nice people and phenomenally positive descriptions of their experiences on the forum. My curiosity was piqued, and I ended up in an email exchange with one of the support people from the company. They were very friendly, and accepted my doubts and apprehensions about yet another entrainment company making absurdly inflated claims. I had listened to their free demo of LifeFlow 10 already, and they were kind enough to send me another free demo of LifeFlow 7.

I thought the demo's were good enough to warrant a trial, so I decided to purchase LifeFlow 10 and give it a fair go. LifeFlow is different to other entrainment products in a few key ways. First of all, they categorically assert that ramping down does not work, and that any track that ramps is a waste of time. For this reason their soundtracks entrain to one steady frequency for their full length. Secondly, they claim to use a harmonically layered set of binaural, monaural and isochronic tones. This is what is supposed to really set them apart from other products. The 'level' methodology they use is to gradually entrain from around 10Hz down to around 1Hz, spending one or two months at each target frequency and gradually moving down. Finally, they are very firm about the importance of practicing endogenous meditation while listening, rather than just passively waiting for the entrainment to do all the work.

Listening to LifeFlow 10 I found it good. It's a complex set of layered sounds, not as mellow and dissociative as Holosync. There are all kinds of chirping and random sounds, and panning effects which I suspect help you to remain alert and not space out completely as the entrainment kicks in. They don't believe in lower carrier frequencies being more powerful, but for us Holosync users it's interesting to know that they use some very low carriers. I did notice some imperfections in the track i.e. some glitches and crackles. For the amount that this product costs I expected better production values.

I liked the idea of gradually lowering the target frequency, and enjoyed spending time in Alpha while getting back into my daily sitting practice. In the end, however, I decided not to continue with the system. One of the main reasons are the 'support letters' they send out. I found a lot of their written material to be highly misleading and sometimes downright wrong. The idea that ramping down does not work at all is one example, and I can give many others. It's normal for companies to make outrageous and unsubstantiated claims in this field, but from my initial impressions of this company I expected something more. Also, I found the price to be far too high. $700 for a set of digitally distributed MP3s that can be fairly easily produced at home with a bit of twiddling in NP2 or Mind Workstation seems far too high.

I therefore wrote to them, and asked to take advantage of their money back guarantee, which they immediately agreed to honour.

So to summarise, my experiences were mixed. They're good soundtracks, and I think the solution is helpful to people starting out with meditation. If the price isn't an obstacle and you don't mind the hyperbole it's probably a good solution. What I particularly like is their emphasis on meditation practice, with the entrainment as a meditation aid.

In the meantime I've started making similar tracks in NP2 - I call my first one Ken Flow 10. :-) It entrains to a steady 10Hz and doesn't use the harmonically layered entrainment tracks, instead just entrainment filters on the background sounds with an isochronic track - and it seems to be as effective, although perhaps a little more dissociative than LifeFlow.

If I get to the point that my own tracks are good enough for public consumption I might offer them for free on a blog. Maybe I'll call it HoloFlow. ;-)

Ken (sorry for the long post!)

Lifeflow (Project Meditation)

http://pelle.gaia.com — Wed, 06 May 2009 23:54:23 GMT

polly said Yesterday, 6:27 PM:

Does anyone know/ have any experience of anything about Lifeflow? (Project Meditation). Sorry, not quite sure how to start a new thread!
Polly