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  adastra : Curious Mutant

RAM on Rap

adastra said Apr 30, 2007, 2:16 PM:

 

From the Robert Augustus Masters blog (April 7, 2007) -

THE RAP ON RAP

When well-known radio show host Don Imus was recently on the national hot seat after uttering his now infamous “nappy-headed ho’s” line (referring “jokingly” to the members of a women’s basketball team), much more was surfacing than just outrage at his racist comment. Imus did eventually get fired, but probably not so much because his employers were outraged at what he’d said, as because some bigtime advertisers were withdrawing from his show. Such a drop in profits, plus general public censure of Imus, were enough to finally persuade CBS to drop him.

So what else was surfacing? Well, for starters, a deeper questioning of cultural elements that make money from denigrating women, especially black women. And high on that list is rap music – not all rap, of course, but rather the rap that talks about women with about the same level of respect as a pimp has for his whores. Some rappers, in a show of remarkable hypocrisy, have made it clear that they don’t like being lumped in with Imus. Snoop Dogg, for example, describes the women he routinely puts down in his music as “ho's that's in the ‘hood that ain't doing shit.” Like many rappers, he makes it cool to look at women as whores,  bitches, second-class citizens – and he makes plenty of money for doing so, however much he goes on about the roots of rap, and their responsibility for what rap lyrics say. Millionaire rappers as victims – pawns of circumstances – now victimizing the ones least able to fight back! 

Misogynist rap, ugly and heartless as it is, spells bigbucks, and so record companies, conveniently faceless, keep producing and marketing it. They may claim that they are just meeting a cultural need – that is, they just can’t help themselves! – but in fact they are helping create and reinforce that cultural need, while the neurotic tolerance that pervades our culture says in so many words: I may not like what you’re saying, but you have every right to say it, so no way am I going to interfere with what you’re doing. What a fucking cop-out! The stand against taking any stand.

And why is so much rap misogynist? Part of the answer lies in its origins: Beaten-down cultures – and not just African-American – often slip into misogyny, not because they really hate women, but because women are easier to beat on than those who are the real oppressors. Domestic abuse and incest are appallingly common, for example, among native Americans – when a people has been largely annihilated and treated in subhuman fashion, this is a common result, needing something more than government handouts. And something more than leaders who mostly only seem to be interested in profiting from the appalling conditions from which they arose. On the one hand, we have Snoop Dogg, and on the other Martin Luther King; both had chances to make a real difference to African Americans, but only one really went for it. Of course, it’s not too late for Snoop, but to do so, he’s going to have to get vulnerable and feel his shame for what he’s done with regard to reducing women to ho’s, bitches, and video vixens. Time to grow up, Snoop – you have an incredible opportunity right now to turn a major corner, but time’s running out…

Rap’s cultural roots constitute no excuse for rap to degrade women. Yes, maybe in the ghettos and the ‘hood, women are degraded, so yes, put that into the music, since it’s an essential part of the experience. Yes, put across how women are treated there, and do it bluntly and graphically. But why, why, why degrade women in the music? Why not rap about the degradation, instead of perpetuating it?

I haven’t heard a lot of rap, but most of what I’ve heard lacks heart. Much of it sounds tough, cocky, invulnerable, packed with hard masculine energy, but is almost devoid of anything that’s soft, tender, caring, or compassionate. It’s as if rap is afraid to show any caring – how many male rappers (and the great majority are, no surprise, male) have the balls to be vulnerable? It’s easier to hide behind the shades and hyper-stylized clothing. And this is just the surface! Dig a bit deeper, and misogyny more often than not kicks in. Women then are just ho’s, pieces of ass, bitches, basically classifiable as fuckable or unfuckable. The good news for misogynist rappers is that they can make a lot of money for portraying women as such. At least Don Imus wasn’t making a living from doing so. Imus got fired for his comments; why shouldn’t rappers who put out misogynist lyrics – that go way past Imus territory – lose their record contracts?

The current number one rap track is “This Is Why I'm Hot.” It has topped the charts for the few months. Here are but a few of its lyrics:

This is why I'm hot

Catch me on the block

Every other day

Another bitch another drop

There are, of course, many other rap lyrics that are in a similar spirit, with the male rapper cutting his studly superstylish way through all the black bitches and ho’s (who, if they have it at all together, are in instant, almost worshipful heat around the rapper – or, more precisely, around his ego). It’s no accident that probably the major audience for rappers is white teenagers. In rap, they find an expressive outlet for their aversion to the adult (and largely white) world; they too are in an oppressive environment, however light their oppression is compared to that of less fortunate others. White teen males can, without much trouble, relate to the adolescent cockiness and need to raise one’s self-esteem by being openly wanted by young women who are little more than adolescent masturbation fantasies come to life.

In American white culture, leaders get plenty of heat from those “below” them, but in American black culture, leaders don’t get nearly as much heat, probably because it feels like more of a betrayal to do so in black culture than in white culture. This seems to be true of most minorities. And this goes beyond race: Consider teenagers, whatever their race, sticking together when adults bring heat on them – how many teenage boys are willing to “rat” on their misbehaving buddies, even when those “buddies” are doing some pretty horrible things? Nevertheless, it appears to be time for African Americans to bring more heat to their leaders, instead of just looking up to them or envying them. If this is not cool, so fucking what? 

And what to do with rap? It can’t be scrapped, but it can be deepened. Listen to an edgy rap masterpiece like “Dance With the Devil” (by Immortal Technique); yes, it will shock you and wrench your heart and belly, but it will also serve you, not only deepening your understanding of the crucible out of which rap arose, but also helping you to feel it from the raw inside. The song is, in part, about the extreme violation of a woman, but it itself does not violate women. Instead, it exposes, in a deeply visceral way, some of what underlies such violation, leaving listeners with more of a chill in their spine than just another opinion about oppression’s roots.

So yes, fire Don Imus, but don’t bypass or ignore others who make a living putting down women, and I’m not just talking about misogynist rappers! There’s a mega-industry based on the exploitation of women, and the rappers in question are just part of the tip of it. Once we’ve turned away from our basic humanity, we will inevitably be attracted to whatever rationalizes and reinforces that turning away. Once we have dehumanized women, we can stay with our porn, or our misogynist rap lyrics, or our msiguided tolerance for our hypersexualized culture. Then the whole planet becomes just something for us men to exploit, to rape, to reduce to a “ho” whose only purpose to please and pleasure us, while all around us our home burns.

Many rappers like to talk of revolution. How about getting behind a real revolution, namely that of taking a committed stand against whatever dehumanizes us? The times demand it. No revolution, no evolution.     

~~~~~

  adastra : Curious Mutant

Re: RAM on Rap

adastra said Apr 30, 2007, 2:19 PM:

 

Here are the lyrics of the rap song he mentions in the blog, about which he says, “…yes, it will shock you and wrench your heart and belly, but it will also serve you, not only deepening your understanding of the crucible out of which rap arose, but also helping you to feel it from the raw inside. The song is, in part, about the extreme violation of a woman, but it itself does not violate women. Instead, it exposes, in a deeply visceral way, some of what underlies such violation, leaving listeners with more of a chill in their spine than just another opinion about oppression’s root.”

~~~~~~~~~~~

IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE LYRICS

“Dance With The Devil”

[Verse 1]
I once knew a nigga whose real name was William
His primary concern, was making a million
Being the illest hustler, that the world ever seen
He used to fuck moviestars and sniff coke in his dreams
A corrupted young mind, at the age of thirteen
Nigga never had a father and his mom was a fiend
She put the pipe down, but every year she was sober
Her sons heart simultaneously grew colder
He started hanging out selling bags in the projects
Checking the young chicks, looking for hit and run prospects
He was fascinated by material objects
But he understood money never bought respect
He build a reputation 'cause he could hustle and steal
But got locked once and didn't hesitate to squeal
So criminals he chilled with didn't think he was real
You see me and niggaz like this have never been equal
I don't project my insurecurity's at other people
He fiended for props like addicts with pipes and needles
So he felt he had to prove to everyone he was evil
A feeble-minded young man with infinite potetial
The product of a ghetto breed capatalistic mental
Coincidentally dropped out of school to sell weed
Dancing with the devil, smoked until his eyes would bleed
But he was sick of selling trees and gave in to his greed

[Hook]
Everyone trying to be trife never face the consequences
You propably only did a month for minor offences
Ask a nigga doing life if he had another chance
But then again there's always the wicked at new and advanced
Dance forever with the devil on a code cell block
But thats what happens when you rape, murder and sell rock
Devils used to be gods, angels that fell from the top
There's no diversity because we're burning in the melting pot

[Verse 2]
So Billy started robbing niggaz, anything he could do
He'd get his respect back, in the eyes of his crew
Starting fights over little shit, up on the block
Stepped up to selling mothers and brothers the crack rock
Working overtime for making money for the crack spot
Hit the jackpot and wanted to move up to cocaine
For filling the scarface fantasy stuck in his brain
Tired of the block niggaz treating him the same
He wanted to be major like the cut throats and the thugs
But when he tried to step to 'em, niggaz showed him no love
They told him any motherfucking coward can sell drugs
Any bitch nigga with a gun, can bust slugs
Any nigga with a red shirt can front like a blood
Even Puffy smoked the motherfucker up in a club
But only a real thug can stab someone till they die
Standing in front of them, starring straight into their eyes
Billy realized that these men were well guarded
And they wanted to test him, before business started
Suggested raping a bitch to prove he was cold hearted
So now he had a choice between going back to his life
Or making money with made men, up in the cife
His dreams about cars and ice, made him agree
A hardcore nigga is all he ever wanted to be
And so he met them friday night at a quarter to three

[Hook]

[Verse 3]
They drove around the projects slow while it was raining
Smoking blunts, drinking and joking for entertainment
Untill they saw a woman on the street walking alone
Three in the morning, coming back from work, on her way home
And so they quietly got out the car and followed her
Walking through the projects, the darkness swallowed her
They wrapped her shirt around her head and knocked her onto the floor
This is it kid now you got your chance to be raw
So Billy oaked her up and grapped the chick by the hair
And dragged her into a lobby that had nobody there
She struggled hard but they forced her to go up the stairs
They got to the roof and then held her down on the ground
Screaming shut the fuck up and stop moving around
The shirt covered her face, but she screamed the clawed
So Billy stomped on the bitch, until he broken her jaw
The dirty bastards knew exactly what they were doing
They kicked her until they cracked her ribs and she stopped moving
Blood leaking through the cloth, she cried silently
And then they all proceeded to rape her violently
Billy was meant to go first, but each of them took a turn
Ripping her up, and choking her until her throat burned
A broken jaw mumbled for god but they weren't concerned
When they were done and she was lying bloody, broken and broos
One of them niggaz pulled out a brand new twenty-two
They told him that she was a witness of what she'd gone through
And if he killed her he was guaranteed a spot in the crew
He thought about it for a minute, she was practicly dead
And so he leaned over and put the gun right to her head

[Sample from “Survival of the Fittest” by Mobb Deep]
I'm falling and I can't turn back
I'm falling and I can't turn back

[Verse 4]
Right before he pulled the trigger, and ended her life
He thought about the cold pain with the platinum and ice
And he felt strong standing along with his new brothers
Cocked the gat to her head, and pulled back the shirt cover
But what he saw made him start to cringe and studder
Cuz he was starring into the eyes of his own mother
She looked back at him and cried, cause he had forsaken her
She cried more painfully, than when they were raping her
His whole world stopped, he couldn't even contiplate
His corruption had succesfully changed his fate
And he remembered how his mom used to come home late
Working hard for nothing, cause now what was he worth
He turned away from the woman that had once given him birth
And crying out to the sky cause he was lonely and scared
But only the devil responded, cause god wasn't there
And right then he knew what it was to be empty and cold
And so he jumped off the roof and died with no soul
They say death take you to a better place but I doubt it
After that they killed his mother, and never spoke about it
And listen cause the story that I'm telling is true
Cuz I was there with Billy Jacobs and I raped his mom to
And now the devil follows me everywhere that I go
Infact I'm sure he's standing among one of you at my shows
And every street cypher listening to little thugs flowe
He could be standing right next to you, and you wouldn't know
The devil grows inside the hearts of the selvish and wicked
White, brown, yellow and black colored is not restricted
You have a self destructive destiny when your inflicted
And you'll be one of gods children and fell from the top
There's no diversity because we're burning in the melting pot
So when the devil wants to dance with you, you better say never
Because the dance with the devil might last you forever


~~~

  adastra : Curious Mutant

Re: RAM on Rap

adastra said Apr 30, 2007, 3:25 PM:

 

The only rap album I'm really familiar with at this point is the Blackalicious album the Craft, which I can't recommend highly enough.  It's an integral, third-tier rap album, and shows that the medium can be used to express any level of consciousness.

Check out these lyrics to the first and last song on the album:


“World of Vibrations”

We'd like to welcome you all again to the world of vibrations
Introduction to the nation of revolutionary thoughts
Hear the sound evolve, expand, and change
Most of the things that we're sayin' haven't broken through your chatter
So y'all niggaz still ego trip based and
Have not begun to taste the kundalini wisdom bliss
I'm droppin' as a lyric quotin' vessel for the stages
Play this on your play list
I like dough
But musically I'm transcendin' the physical
And don't blame me for the slang and the words
God writes these rhymes through me
I just listen to him
I'm just livin' duke
Matrix driven rules haven't fooled me
Cuz I still think abstract
And stay metaphysical
And challenge what is really real
And keep creatin' with the force to bring rap back
Not that it's away
But everybody got somethin' to say
So let me speak the opposite of what's hot now
And make that hot
So it will get exploited
And the corporation only will back dudes who bite my style
And they can try and try again
I've been influenced by a lot of pioneers
South to the East and West
But when a hot MC
Gets on stage with a real MC
Most of the time the situation gets hostile

[Chorus: Ledisi]
We vibrate at higher frequencies
Welcome to our world and intro to
Fall into a space
Where there is no thoughts
Just moments captured
Here we go

We vibrate at higher frequencies
Let us up inside your head
Just step inside our world of vibration
Bump this from your birth to your deathbed

[Gift of Gab]
Take time with the pad and the pen to dig within
In a world of BS that we're livin' in
To my ears music sound sweet as cinnamon
So I stay poundin' out tunes and tunes again and again
In the 5th chapter ladies and gentlemen
And I still got MCs on my dinner menu
Write late at night this isn't David Letterman though
On second thought, I'm like a letter man though
Let the craft evolve catch a little syndrome
Shootin' through your vains, vibratin' though your eardrums
Used to think 30 years old then the end comes
Now I feel like I'm just gainin' momentum
Seen the world two times all except for India
About to vacate there when we finish this one
Work hard but still some sweep
We won't mention them
In fact, they act as fuel for our engine
Engine engine number 9, mic lynchin'
When we're done with this these songs are our pension
MCs are puppets, Me, I'm Jim Henson
Take a squat or get chopped by the henchmen
City, town, state arena or convention
Please believe these the G's that ease pension
Rakka and Ev said that it's a marathon
Song after song, we keep on inventin'

[Chorus] - repeats


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“The Craft”

[Chorus]
This Craft, this beat, this rhyme, this vibe
This style, they say music gives new life
From a source inside that is forever flowin'
This stage, this mic, this crowd, this show
This life, I've been given a gift tonight
And for that, I vow to be a vessel

[Gift of Gab - Verse One]
I didn't have to be, given the gift to rip
I'll never master me, I know that it's from Him
or Her or It, dimensions that sit
Waitin' to sift through me, I fall short, still it hits me swift
I didn't have to see, I coulda hit the lick
I coulda drifted it quick, I coulda quit so quick
It's really a trip, I guess I was picked
I don't know what I did to deserve a ride like this (Damn!)
I didn't have to eat, I coulda been so thin
I didn't have to be, quoting these sentences
I didn't have to reap, the work put in but then
even the work in itself was such a blessin
I didn't have to see, the planet lip to lip
I didn't have to make, a livin' writ to writ
I didn't have to dream and then begin to live it
And for that, I vow to be a vessel

[Chorus]
This Craft, this beat, this rhyme, this vibe
This style, they say music gives new life
From a source inside that is forever flowin'
This stage, this mic, this crowd, this show
This life, I've been given a gift tonight
And for that, I vow to be a vessel

[Verse Two]
I give thanks for my rhymin' ability
I don't front like it's not a responsibility
I can open a mind, if the youth will listen to me
I'm not goin' to front, like I'm on some killin' spree
and as hard as the times are, God is livin' through beats
that come not from minds, but that travel through spiritual reasons
Some of the time, I feel like, it's not even me
No mon-ey can buy gateways to infinity
Still I'm hun-gry to shine, when I know I should let it be
I want but I have, every single thing that we need
So help me align self with soul and then I'll be free
To sculpt and design verbal styles and experience freedom

[Chorus]
This Craft, this beat, this rhyme, this vibe
This style, they say music gives new life
From a source inside that is forever flowin'
This stage, this mic, this crowd, this show
This life, I've been given a gift tonight
And for that, I vow to be a vessel

[Chief Xcel samples]
“Let go, do what's in front of you”
“Then, let go, then do what's in front of you”

[Verse Three]
This ain't leisure, although it feels
It is a duty, a way to live, another way to give
Another way to just, have communion
With the source of the sun and moon and, a way to pay the bills
Displayin' skills, I take it REAL serious
The vibe's so mysterious, not just one more day to kill
..and I could lose my connection
if I do not respect it enough, fffade away it will
Day to day it gives energies
That replenish me, if I believe and I say it will
and act on it, 'cause action is the key to freedom
Only way to be a leader, lead by the way you live

[Chorus 3X]
This Craft, this beat, this rhyme, this vibe
This style, they say music gives new life
From a source inside that is forever flowin'
This stage, this mic, this crowd, this show
This life, I've been given a gift tonight
And for that, I vow to be a vessel


  Pelle : focusing

Re: RAM on Rap

Pelle said Apr 30, 2007, 3:48 PM:

 

good topic, Arthur.

I say something when I've slept.
zzzzzzzzz


pelle

  Pelle : focusing

Re: RAM on Rap

Pelle said May 1, 2007, 2:22 AM:

 

What I wanted to say is that it's a shame that the huge potential in rap for a large part gets lost in BS lyrics. Rhythmically it's such a cool style of music, with the ability to resonate with one's lower chakras and the body's natural rhythms.

Eminem is a brilliant exception to me. He raps about his own life, his own anger, his own fantasies. He will use words such as fuck, etc but only as part of a bigger whole. I wouldn't say that Eminem is Integral, but he definitely takes mainstream rap a huge step forward compared to most other rappers. He has a story to tell, sometimes even about an obvious shadow aspect of himself, and he does so with a natural talent for rhythm.

i'll see if I can download some Blackalicious. Hrmm… legally of course  angel12


peace
pelle

  kessels : soul-journer

Re: RAM on Rap

kessels said May 1, 2007, 2:47 AM:

 

Reading this thread, Arrested Development in general and their frontman Speech in particular came to mind as examples of more positively oriented hip hop (there's a lot more, of course). Great stuff, but I lost track of them lately. So I did some Googling, and came up with the following recent event, which ties in with RAM's article perfectly:

SPEECH receives a proclamation from the city of ATLANTA
(April 16th 2007)

It’s a rarity that the press covers hip-hop artists receiving proclamations from their respective cities; instead we hear of arrest, search warrants and restraining orders. Well, April 16th 2007, the great city of Atlanta gave Speech the high honor of a proclamation. All of this in the midst of the Don Imus controversy, where he called some black women “nappy” and “Ho’s”. That controversy led to Hip Hop being under fire because of the blatant disrespect of black women from other black men as well!

Snoop Dogg, Ice Cube, 50 Cent, Dr. Dre, Redman, Wu-tang, Ice-T, Biggie, Tupac, Busta Rhymes, Paul Wall, Jay-Z, Eminem, and Nelly whose lyrics and videos have consistently degraded women and promoted self-hatred. All of that is in stark contrast to Arrested Development's lyricist, Speech. The new album, with his group Arrested Development, entitled “Since The last Time” is filled with relevant anthems of self-determination and hope.


Hip-Hop by nature has always been anti-establishment, so why the celebration of a proclamation anyway? Hip Hop has brought anthems like F___ the police or Fight the power! To some, Speech’s lyrics seem to lessen the potency & edge of hip-hop music.

Yet, a listen to his lyrics shows a complex and passionate mc. Speech is no stranger to anti-oppression sentiments. With lyrics about “the government being overthrown” – from the song, “Give a Man a Fish” (3 years, 5months… EMI) or “Let's talk about a revolution” – from the song, “Revolution” (X Soundtrack Warner Brothers).

Speech has been a lyricist, political activist & recently even a minister of the gospel. His track record of consistent racial dignity and purpose shines as a direct contrast to the present day opportunist who switches sides depending on the popular musical climate.

Speech hails from Milwaukee, Wisconsin son of Robert Thomas & Patricia Pattillo. Patricia is owner of Wisconsin’s largest black newspaper, the Milwaukee Community Journal. Speech has two children and a wife of 17 years. His group Arrested Development have re-united and are on tour promoting, “Since The Last Time”. For more information on Speech visit: www.arresteddevelopmentmusic.com

Bright Boateng (Gold Star) 2007




Peter

  kessels : soul-journer

Re: RAM on Rap

kessels said May 1, 2007, 2:53 AM:

 

Here's part of the lyrics of Give a Man a Fish which was referenced above:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Got to get political
Political I gotta get
Grown but can't hold my own
So this government needs to be overthrown
Brothers with the AKs and the 9 MMs
need to learn how to correctly shoot'em
Save those rounds for a revolution
Poor whites and blacks bumrushing the system
But I tell you: Ain't no room for gangstaz
Coz ganstaz do dirty work and get pimped by mobsters
Some fat Italian eating pasta 'n lobster
Brothers getting jailed and mobsters own the coppers
so you you want out of the ghetto
First the political prisoners must be let go
And you must let go of your power master
You'll never get out without much discipline
Raise your fist but also raise your children
So when you die the movement moves on
Coz with revolution, ain't no future in front o' y'all
haha! Direct your anger, love
Nothing's ever built on hate, instead love
Love your life, tackle the government
The spooks that break down the door are heaven sent
and my phrase went…

Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day
Teach him how to fish and he'll eat forever

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Peter

  maryw : ponderer

Re: RAM on Rap

maryw said May 1, 2007, 3:35 AM:

 

Oh God, I'm probably going to be in the minority here (haha), but I agree with Al Sharpton: Imus should not have been fired. Criticized and called to task: yes. Warned: yes. But fired? No. [later edit: it was probably not Al Sharpton who said this – see Arthur's post below].

I was never a fan of Imus's and I'm certainly not defending misogyny – I just think that the response to hurtful speech should (generally) be “more and better” speech. And hmmph! there goes all my hard work reclaiming the “H” word (in the same way rap musicians have reclaimed the “N” word). Now when people hear the word “ho” they're gonna think of Imus instead of, say, Mary Magdalene (and yes I know she wasn't really a ho.) For more on my slant on this, here's a recent blog entry o' mine

Kessels, I loved Arrested Development in their day…
 
I also have to admit that when I listen to music, it's often for the melody, rhythms, instruments, and vocals, with the lyrics taking a bit of a backseat. (For me, lyrics “work better” on the page). Thus my favorite hip-hopster rappers are Digable Planets of the 1990s, who fused hip-hop rhythms with tasty jazz, funk, and sharp urban word-poetry. Not usually as deep and hard-hitting as those gut-wrenching lyrics Arthur posted above, but always, always fresh. Here are a few samples:

Rebirth of Slick (Cool Like Dat)

Where I'm From

Nickel Bag of Funk

  Liz : deLizious

Re: RAM on Rap

Liz said May 1, 2007, 8:38 AM:

 

Shhhh, Mary. I also didn't think he should be fired. There are a lot of people out there who say far more offensive stuff every day. Imus makes a living being outrageous.. He was fired because it was both politically and financially expedient. And I do feel that since I didn't hear the entire context of what he said, I'm not really in a position to say.

But mostly what Imus did was to be a white man talking about black people, which we are not allowed to do, no matter how obvious the issue. (I realize what he said was hurtful, but it got people talking) This is MGM political correctness. What is needed is MORE talk about  black American culture and what can be done about it becoming more adaptive.

White American culture takes what it wants and leaves the problems unsolved. What if people actually talked about how things could change, while still keeping the unique culture alive?

This has application far beyond our borders. Native cultures and oppressed people are everywhere.

Liz

  adastra : Curious Mutant

Re: RAM on Rap

adastra said May 1, 2007, 9:17 AM:

 

Maryw: Oh God, I'm probably going to be in the minority here (haha), but I agree with Al Sharpton: Imus should not have been fired. Criticized and called to task: yes. Warned: yes. But fired? No.

~~~~~~

Hi Mary

I haven't looked deeply into the “nappy-headed ho” incident, but it does seem excessive to fire him, as you say.  It seems pretty mild in comparison to a lot of what's out there.  However, I feel no need to look deeply into it and come to a decision on whether his firing was a good thing or not.

However, I was a bit curious as to what you said about Al Sharpton, and in browsing the beginning of a transcript of Al talking with Don Imus, it seems that Al very strongly believes he should have been fired:

~~~

SHARPTON. His mike's on. First of all, let me just say this so we are all clear. Mr. Imus, through several friends who state that he is not a bad guy, I talked to over the weekend several of his friends. He offered to talk. I said let's talk publicly. You offered for me to come on your show, I did not want to do that. I said, if he wants to talk, let him come to my show. You accepted the challenge. There's no preconditions. You understand that I've called for you to be fired. I've not rescinded that for you to come to this show and there's no preconditions other than we would talk very blunt and openly about what you said, and why I and others feel you should be fired. Is that not so?

~~~

In any case, I think it's cool that people are talking about more progressive rap.  I'm particularly interested to hear if anyone else knows about more integral rap/hip-hop (what's the difference between those anyway?) out there.

You can listen to sound samples from the Blackalicious album The Craft here

spiral out,
arthur

  adastra : Curious Mutant

Re: RAM on Rap

adastra said May 1, 2007, 9:34 AM:

 

I just thought I'd add a comment I wrote in a PM to Liz just now:

~~~

BTW do you still think Imus shouldn't have been fired over the nappy-headed ho comment?  Maryw is feeling alone in that opinion, according to what she said on the thread.  I don't feel like I know enough about it to really decide.   It does occur to me that people are fine with tolerating an impressive degree of actual oppression - just don't use bad words publicly or you'll get in trouble.  Kinda like the world freaked out when the Taliban blew up some old statues, but hadn't raised a fuss about them stoning women to death.

~~~

spirals,
arthur

  adastra : Curious Mutant

Re: RAM on Rap

adastra said May 1, 2007, 10:40 AM:

 

oh, I just noticed Liz's response.  See, Mary, you're not so alone in your opinion.  :)

arthur

  maryw : ponderer

Re: RAM on Rap

maryw said May 1, 2007, 11:55 AM:

 

Arthur pointed out: it seems that Al very strongly believes he should have been fired

Arrhh! –  I could have sworn I heard Brian Williams report about a week after Imus got the boot that Al Sharpton now believed that he didn't think he should have been fired from his CBS radioshow (implying that he still thought he should no longer be aired on MSNBC) – but of course, this might have been a case of The News confusing one black leader / commentator for another. Or me having a weird dream. (The report did sound odd to me also, since Al had seemed dead-set on giving Imus the ax earlier … )

Tennessee senator Harold Ford Jr. said (before the firing):

I don't want to be viewed as piling on right now because Don Imus is a good friend and a decent man. However, he did a reprehensible thing.  His comments about the Rutgers women's basketball team were hurtful and wrong. Moreover, the comments robbed these young women of an important time to celebrate a magnificent and positive moment in their lives.  


I am a big believer in redemption, and I understand that Don has done many good deeds in his life.  Yet, no amount of philanthropy gives anyone the license to offend innocent people-particularly when it comes to matters of race and gender.  So I'm going to follow the lead of those brilliant and gracious women of the Rutgers basketball team and wait and see how the next two weeks unfold. I certainly hope Don can come to understand better the pain he has caused these young women and their families, and I will leave it to others to decide how his future in media should play out.


 And here's a report on what radiohost Armstrong Williams said –

One of the few African Americans to defend Imus has been conservative commentator Armstrong Williams, who appeared Monday on MSNBC's “Countdown.”


“I can never forget during the time of Hurricane Katrina that he was one of the few people who had a national audience in this country who spoke out and said, 'What is wrong with America? Why are they singling out these people for this kind of treatment and this kind of neglect?'” the National Journal's Hotline quoted Williams as saying.


“He said there's only one conclusion that I can come to is the fact that they have black faces. And this is not right. This is not who America is. And I've got to tell you, I can't forget that. You can be outraged with him, and you should be outraged with him, but you've got to take the man's life in balance. He's one of the few people who brought attention to the plight of those people in New Orleans, and they happened to be black,” Williams said.

  maryw : ponderer

Re: RAM on Rap

maryw said May 1, 2007, 12:14 PM:

 

Arthur wrote:  I'm particularly interested to hear if anyone else knows about more integral rap/hip-hop (what's the difference between those anyway?) out there.

–Rap refers to spoken lyrics, while hip-hop refers to a certain musical rhythm and beat (boom boom SNAP! boom-de-boom SNAP!)

On his zaadz-blog, Bob posted this letter from Saul Williams to Oprah Winfrey. Long but a great read:

Dear Ms. Winfrey,

It is with the greatest respect and adoration of your loving spirit that I write you. As a young child, I would sit beside my mother everyday and watch your program. As a young adult, with children of my own, I spend much less time in front of the television, but I am ever thankful for the positive effect that you continue to have on our nation, history and culture. The example that you have set as someone unafraid to answer their calling, even when the reality of that calling insists that one self-actualize beyond the point of any given example, is humbling, and serves as the cornerstone of the greatest faith. You, love, are a pioneer.

I am a poet.

Growing up in Newburgh, NY, with a father as a minister and a mother as a school teacher, at a time when we fought for our heroes to be nationally recognized, I certainly was exposed to the great names and voices of our past. I took great pride in competing in my churches Black History Quiz Bowl and the countless events my mother organized in hopes of fostering a generation of youth well versed in the greatness as well as the horrors of our history. Yet, even in a household where I had the privilege of personally interacting with some of the most outspoken and courageous luminaries of our times, I must admit that the voices that resonated the most within me and made me want to speak up were those of my peers, and these peers were emcees. Rappers.
. Yes, Ms. Winfrey, I am what my generation would call “a Hip Hop head.” Hip Hop has served as one of the greatest aspects of my self-definition. Lucky for me, I grew up in the 80's when groups like Public Enemy, Rakim, The jungle Brothers, Queen Latifah, and many more realized the power of their voices within the artform and chose to create music aimed at the upliftment of our generation.

As a student at Morehouse College where I studied Philosophy and Drama I was forced to venture across the street to Spelman College for all of my Drama classes, since Morehouse had no theater department of its own. I had few complaints. The performing arts scholarship awarded me by Michael Jackson had promised me a practically free ride to my dream school, which now had opened the doors to another campus that could make even the most focused of young boys dreamy, Spelman. One of my first theater professors, Pearle Cleage, shook me from my adolescent dream state. It was the year that Dr. Dre's “The Chronic” was released and our introduction to Snoop Dogg as he sang catchy hooks like “Bitches ain't shit but hoes and tricks…” Although, it was a playwriting class, what seemed to take precedence was Ms. Cleages political ideology, which had recently been pressed and bound in her 1st book, Mad at Miles. As, you know, in this book she spoke of how she could not listen to the music of Miles Davis and his muted trumpet without hearing the muted screams of the women that he was outspoken about “man-handling”. It was my first exposure to the idea of an artist being held accountable for their actions outside of their art. It was the first time I had ever heard the word, “misogyny”. And as Ms. Cleage would walk into the classroom fuming over the women she would pass on campus, blasting those Snoop lyrics from their cars and jeeps, we, her students, would be privy to many freestyle rants and raves on the dangers of nodding our heads to a music that could serve as our own demise.

Her words, coupled with the words of the young women I found myself interacting with forever changed how I listened to Hip Hop and quite frankly ruined what would have been a number of good songs for me. I had now been burdened with a level of awareness that made it impossible for me to enjoy what the growing masses were ushering into the mainstream. I was now becoming what many Hip Hop heads would call “a Backpacker”, a person who chooses to associate themselves with the more “conscious” or politically astute artists of the Hip Hop community. What we termed as “conscious” Hip Hop became our preference for dance and booming systems. Groups like X-Clan, A Tribe Called Quest, Brand Nubian, Arrested Development, Gangstarr and others became the prevailing music of our circle. We also enjoyed the more playful Hip Hop of De La Soul, Heiroglyphics, Das FX, Organized Konfusion. Digable Planets, The Fugees, and more. We had more than enough positivity to fixate on. Hip Hop was diverse.

I had not yet begun writing poetry. Most of my friends hardly knew that I had been an emcee in high school. I no longer cared to identify myself as an emcee and my love of oratory seemed misplaced at Morehouse where most orators were actually preachers in training, speaking with the Southern drawl of Dr. King although they were 19 and from the North. I spent my time doing countless plays and school performances. I was in line to become what I thought would be the next Robeson, Sidney, Ossie, Denzel, Snipes… It wasn't until I was in graduate school for acting at NYU that I was invited to a poetry reading in Manhattan where I heard Asha Bandele, Sapphire, Carl Hancock Rux, Reggie Gaines, Jessica Care Moore, and many others read poems that sometimes felt like monologues that my newly acquired journal started taking the form of a young poets'. Yet, I still noticed that I was a bit different from these poets who listed names like: Audrey Lourde, June Jordan, Sekou Sundiata etc, when asked why they began to write poetry. I knew that I had been inspired to write because of emcees like Rakim, Chuck D, LL, Run DMC… Hip Hop had informed my love of poetry as much or even more than my theater background which had exposed me to Shakespeare, Baraka, Fugard, Genet, Hansberry and countless others. In those days, just a mere decade ago, I started writing to fill the void between what I was hearing and what I wished I was hearing. It was not enough for me to critique the voices I heard blasting through the walls of my Brooklyn brownstone. I needed to create examples of where Hip Hop, particularly its lyricism, could go. I ventured to poetry readings with my friends and neighbors, Dante Smith (now Mos Def), Talib Kwele, Erycka Badu, Jessica Care Moore, Mums the Schemer, Beau Sia, Suheir Hammad…all poets that frequented the open mics and poetry slams that we commonly saw as “the other direction” when Hip hop reached that fork in the road as you discussed on your show this past week. On your show you asked the question, “Are all rappers poets?” Nice. I wanted to take the opportunity to answer this question for you.

The genius, as far as the marketability, of Hip Hop is in its competitiveness. Its roots are as much in the dignified aspects of our oral tradition as it is in the tradition of “the dozens” or “signifying”. In Hip Hop, every emcee is automatically pitted against every other emcee, sort of like characters with super powers in comic books. No one wants to listen to a rapper unless they claim to be the best or the greatest. This sort of braggadocio leads to all sorts of tirades, showdowns, battles, and sometimes even deaths. In all cases, confidence is the ruling card. Because of the competitive stance that all emcees are prone to take, they, like soldiers begin to believe that they can show no sign of vulnerability. Thus, the most popular emcees of our age are often those that claim to be heartless or show no feelings or signs of emotion. The poet, on the other hand, is the one who realizes that their vulnerability is their power. Like you, unafraid to shed tears on countless shows, the poet finds strength in exposing their humanity, their vulnerability, thus making it possible for us to find connection and strength through their work. Many emcees have been poets. But, no, Ms. Winfrey, not all emcees are poets. Many choose gangsterism and business over the emotional terrain through which true artistry will lead. But they are not to blame. I would now like to address your question of leadership.

You may recall that in immediate response to the attacks of September 11th, our president took the national stage to say to the American public and the world that we would “…show no sign of vulnerability”. Here is the same word that distinguishes poets from rappers, but in its history, more accurately, women from men. To make such a statement is to align oneself with the ideology that instills in us a sense of vulnerability meaning “weakness”. And these meanings all take their place under the heading of what we consciously or subconsciously characterize as traits of the feminine. The weapon of mass destruction is the one that asserts that a holy trinity would be a father, a male child, and a ghost when common sense tells us that the holiest of trinities would be a mother, a father, and a child: Family. The vulnerability that we see as weakness is the saving grace of the drunken driver who because of their drunken/vulnerable state survives the fatal accident that kills the passengers in the approaching vehicle who tighten their grip and show no physical vulnerability in the face of their fear. Vulnerability is also the saving grace of the skate boarder who attempts a trick and remembers to stay loose and not tense during their fall. Likewise, vulnerability has been the saving grace of the African American struggle as we have been whipped, jailed, spat upon, called names, and killed, yet continue to strive forward mostly non-violently towards our highest goals. But today we are at a crossroads, because the institutions that have sold us the crosses we wear around our necks are the most overt in the denigration of women and thus humanity. That is why I write you today, Ms. Winfrey. We cannot address the root of what plagues Hip Hop without addressing the root of what plagues today's society and the world.

You see, Ms. Winfrey, at it's worse; Hip Hop is simply a reflection of the society that birthed it. Our love affair with gangsterism and the denigration of women is not rooted in Hip Hop; rather it is rooted in the very core of our personal faith and religions. The gangsters that rule Hip Hop are the same gangsters that rule our nation. 50 Cent and George Bush have the same birthday (July 6th). For a Hip Hop artist to say “I do what I wanna do/Don't care if I get caught/The DA could play this mothaf@kin tape in court/I'll kill you/ I ain't playin'” epitomizes the confidence and braggadocio we expect an admire from a rapper who claims to represent the lowest denominator. When a world leader with the spirit of a cowboy (the true original gangster of the West: raping, stealing land, and pillaging, as we clapped and cheered.) takes the position of doing what he wants to do, regardless of whether the UN or American public would take him to court, then we have witnessed true gangsterism and violent negligence. Yet, there is nothing more negligent than attempting to address a problem one finds on a branch by censoring the leaves.

Name calling, racist generalizations, sexist perceptions, are all rooted in something much deeper than an uncensored music. Like the rest of the world, I watched footage on AOL of you dancing mindlessly to 50 Cent on your fiftieth birthday as he proclaimed, “I got the ex/if you're into taking drugs/ I'm into having sex/ I ain't into making love” and you looked like you were having a great time. No judgment. I like that song too. Just as I do, James Brown's Sex Machine or Grand Master Flashes “White Lines”. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll is how the story goes. Censorship will never solve our problems. It will only foster the sub-cultures of the underground, which inevitably inhabit the mainstream. There is nothing more mainstream than the denigration of women as projected through religious doctrine. Please understand, I am by no means opposing the teachings of Jesus, by example (he wasn't Christian), but rather the men that have used his teachings to control and manipulate the masses. Hip Hop, like Rock and Roll, like the media, and the government, all reflect an idea of power that labels vulnerability as weakness. I can only imagine the non-emotive hardness that you have had to show in order to secure your empire from the grips of those that once stood in your way: the old guard. You reflect our changing times. As time progresses we sometimes outgrow what may have served us along the way. This time, what we have outgrown, is not hip hop, rather it is the festering remnants of a God depicted as an angry and jealous male, by men who were angry and jealous over the minute role that they played in the everyday story of creation. I am sure that you have covered ideas such as these on your show, but we must make a connection before our disconnect proves fatal.

We are a nation at war. What we fail to see is that we are fighting ourselves. There is no true hatred of women in Hip Hop. At the root of our nature we inherently worship the feminine. Our overall attention to the nurturing guidance of our mothers and grandmothers as well as our ideas of what is sexy and beautiful all support this. But when the idea of the feminine is taken out of the idea of what is divine or sacred then that worship becomes objectification. When our governed morality asserts that a woman is either a virgin or a whore, then our understanding of sexuality becomes warped. Note the dangling platinum crosses over the bare asses being smacked in the videos. The emcees of my generation are the ministers of my father's generation. They too had a warped perspective of the feminine. Censoring songs, sermons, or the tirades of radio personalities will change nothing except the format of our discussion. If we are to sincerely address the change we are praying for then we must first address to whom we are praying.

Thank you, Ms. Winfrey, for your forum, your heart, and your vision. May you find the strength and support to bring about the changes you wish to see in ways that do more than perpetuate the myth of enmity.

In loving kindness,

Saul Williams

PS. Are you and Dave Chappelle still seeing each other?

  adastra : Curious Mutant

Re: RAM on Rap

adastra said May 1, 2007, 2:29 PM:

 

Mary, thanks so much for posting that great letter by Saul Williams.  He is certainly an integral rap artist, and a great one.  My friend Jason mentioned that he did some stuff with Blackalicious in the past.

One of my favorite pieces by him is Said the Shotgun to the Head.  He has quite a bit of material on YouTube; perhaps I will link to more of his stuff in this thread if no one beats me to it.  :)

spiral out,
arthur

  adastra : Curious Mutant

Re: RAM on Rap

adastra said May 1, 2007, 6:05 PM:

 

For more of Robert's thoughts on racism, see Rabbit-Proof Fence and Racism

  adastra : Curious Mutant

Re: RAM on Rap

adastra said May 1, 2007, 7:07 PM:

 

Saul Williams YouTube stuff:

Black Stacey
New York 2005
Children of the Night
Not in Our Name
Coded Language

& once again: Said the Shotgun to the Head

  MrTeacup : Celestial Accounts Receivable Dept.

Re: RAM on Rap

MrTeacup said May 2, 2007, 1:42 PM:

 

I believe that Don Imus should have been fired, for the simple reason that he was fired. Talk radio hosts knowingly tread a very fine line between provocative and uncensored airing of opinion and indulging in bigotry, resentment and hatred, and they routinely cross that line. Eventually enough people get sick of it and advertisers start to pull out, and I don't have a problem with that. Don Imus has the right to free speech, the people who are outraged have the right to free speech and the people who pay for Don Imus' broadcast also have the same right. No-one's rights were trampled on. Keep in mind that Don Imus is a political figure. Misogyny and violence is extremely prevalent in rap, and although that is a problem, it doesn't take place in the context of influencing public opinion about political issues. Don Imus does, and to me, that makes his transgressions are more serious.



RAM ably describes the problems with hip-hop, but I find his solutions a bit naive. No amount of censorship is going to change the fact that there is a huge market for it. No amount of “good” hip-hop is going to change the fact that people love “bad” hip-hop. As a culture, we have an extremely dysfunctional relationship to the Red aspects of society. Green regards any display of aggression and violence as problematic, Amber believes the same about any unauthorized violence and all sexuality, and Orange doesn't care what Red does so long as it doesn't interfere with achievement. Much of the concern over gun control, violence on TV and especially video games comes from a Green/Blue conviction that there is no such thing as healthy Red. That's the feeling I get from Oprah and other similar commentators, including RAM. I think he's insightful on many points, but on this one, I think he comes very close to pathologizing all anger and violence, especially from men. And that's not to say that male anger and violence is not pathological – it often is – but that we aren't presented with a non-pathological version. To me, this is actually perpetuating the problem, because the people acting out of unhealthy Red are doing so in large part because they feel marginalized, pathologized and excluded.

  maryw : ponderer

Re: RAM on Rap

maryw said May 3, 2007, 11:38 AM:

 

Teacup wrote: Keep in mind that Don Imus is a political figure. Misogyny and violence is extremely prevalent in rap, and although that is a problem, it doesn't take place in the context of influencing public opinion about political issues. Don Imus does, and to me, that makes his transgressions are more serious.
————————————-
As a version of “shock-jock” with a fairly small middle-of the-night audience, I never thought of Imus as having that much political influence – it seemed he was more “infotainment,” and his schtick was being a dry-drunk, cantankerous, sexist bigot.

The episode of his firing shows that “mob rule” (in this case green mob rule) combined with orange concern for profits can lead to swift and effective action. In some cases this can be a very good thing – such as when businesses make efforts to be environmentally friendly. But in other cases it means an unpopular voice or viewpoint gets censored. I remember right after 9-11, when Bill Maher's “Politically Incorrect” was pushed off the air (it was eventually revived and moved to cable) because Maher had the nerve to disagree with Bush's assessment that the 9-11 hijackers had been cowards. Bill said something like: “As horrible and misguided as their actions were, this choice to die for their ideals cannot be defined as cowardly.” That caused quite an uproar – but should he have been taken off the air just because he made a statement that upset a lot of people?

Would that it were so easy for us to fire someone of real political influence – like George W. Bush!

Mary

  Lucidity : Designer of Life

Re: RAM on Rap

Lucidity said May 3, 2007, 6:53 PM:

 

Funny, I was discussing this issue with my Husband about Imus being fired and I felt that it wasn't justified and it was very swift and quick with no discussion, etc.
To me this just indicates a problem with public media when angry voices are heard loud and clear, it needs to be put away (squashed immediately before hell breaks loose), when it could of been a point of discussion about what is appropriate opinions about a group, etc. and it seemed more of a personal opinion rather than a consensus.

Howard Stern gets away with saying all kinds of foul opinions about people publicly and he's not off the air and makes Imus look wimpy.

I don't see how Imus's single statement would sway the majority of people to become bigots.
It just makes him look like one.

  adastra : Curious Mutant

Re: RAM on Rap

adastra said May 16, 2007, 2:43 PM:

 

Here's some great rapalicious advice dj rekluse  gave me in a PM:

~~~~~

Once you listen to Nia by Blackalicious, go check out Lyrics Born, as well as The Maroons.  Same label.  In fact, EVERYTHING on Quannum records is amazing–dj shadow, blackalicious, lyrics born, lateef the truthspeaker, pigeon john, lifesavas, the maroons–all of them truly represent the cutting edge of Hip Hop today…..

~~~~~

  adastra : Curious Mutant

Re: RAM on Rap

adastra said Jul 23, 2007, 4:59 PM:

 

from http://news.yahoo.com

~~~~~

Rev. Sharpton backs idea on rap lyrics

By CAROLYN THOMPSON, Associated Press Writer


BUFFALO, N.Y. - The Rev. Al Sharpton, who has challenged the entertainment industry on denigrating lyrics, on Monday supported a state senator's idea to pull public investments from companies that won't clean up their act.

Holding the entertainment industry accountable will be a primary goal of the newest chapter of Sharpton's National Action Network, said the activist minister, who announced the formation of the Buffalo-Niagara branch while in town to address a convention of black criminal justice professionals.

Roughly $3 billion from New York's state pension fund is invested in the entertainment industry, according to state Sen. Antoine Thompson, who requested an inventory of entertainment industry investments from the state comptroller earlier this year.

Thompson suggested leveraging the investments to open dialogue with industry executives.

“We just want to have more responsible entertainment where we're not using language that's offensive to anybody,” the Buffalo Democrat said.

“The idea of divesting New York State taxpayers' money from record companies that have a double standard when it comes to language is something that will be a priority,” said Sharpton, who led the drive to have Don Imus fired from his syndicated radio show for calling the Rutgers University women's basketball team “nappy-headed hos.”

In April, hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons said the recording and broadcast industries should consistently ban three racial and sexist epithets from all so-called clean versions of rap songs and the airwaves. Expressing concern about the “growing public outrage” over the use of such words in rap lyrics, Simmons said the words “bitch,” “ho” and “nigger” should be considered “extreme curse words.”

Sharpton said the Buffalo chapter of NAN also would consider town hall forums and other venues to steer young blacks toward positive goals, especially now that the city has elected its first black mayor and has a black schools superintendent and police commissioner.

“I remember many years ago when I would come to Buffalo, we dreamed of days of black empowerment,” Sharpton said. “Now we have to make sure the conduct of our black citizens complements that achievement. We cannot undermine them with the conduct of killing each other, selling drugs to each other and really celebrating a culture of depravity and decadence.”

The Buffalo-Niagara Falls chapter is the 36th branch of NAN, which Sharpton founded to protect civil rights for minorities.


~~~~~