Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

The end of our very first integrally motivated prime minister.  In some ways I'm sad to see him go, but I guess all leaders have their shelf-life in a particular job.

Sifting through all the 1st tier media rubbish, I have no doubt that he has changed British politics irriversably - interation is the theme.  No more flat land, horizontal left and right - but the 3rd way.

Bravo Tony!

Re: Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

I am having continued trouble with the elevation of Tony Blair to the status of “Our first Integral Prime Minister”. I don't believe there is anything particularly integral in his approach, nor am I in any sense convinced that the Third Way reprsents anything in second tier thought, approach or analysis.

I thought it might be helpful to have a look at what the Third Way actually is, both to clarify for those who aren't sure and to help people make useful comments about where they think the approach might fit. I have used Bill and Charlie Jordan's Social Work and the Third Way-Tough Love as Social Policy (Sage,2000), basically because it would take me a long time to express anything as clearly and also because I am largely sympathetic to this analysis. I am making no attempt to be even handed here, feel free to counter.

The Third Way is the name given by the New Labour leadership to its own political philosphy and strategy; it is also the title of texts by Tony Blair and his adviser, Professor Tony Giddens, both published in 1998. It purports to be an alternative to margaret Thatcher's free market model of the neo-liberal state, and to old-style socialism, both of the undemocratic Soviet, command economy kind, and of the Old Labour variety (with a mixed economy and universalistic, collectivist welfare state).

What is distinctive about the Third Way in both accounts is the emphasis on the requirement to find new expressions for the values of socialism, feminism, anti racism and justice. Tony Blair writes that Labour's values have not changed, but the means of achieving them must change: “The Third Way is a serious reappraisal of social democracy, reaching deep into the values of the left to develop radically new approaches” Similarly, Tony Giddens writes of socialist values which “remain intrinsic to the good life that it is the point of social and economoc development to create”

The following is a list of the Third Way's values and how they are interpreted, following Carling (1999)

Equality-equal moral worth of all human beings: equality of opportunity, not outcome; protection of the vulnerable.

Autonomy- personal freedom; choice; political liberty.

Community - individual responsibility; reciprocity;obligations corresponding to social rights; social inclusion as the basis for social justice .

Democracy - empowerment; devolution of power

The key question is whether these values have any substance when they are detached from the context of socialism, feminism, anti racism and justice. As carling points out, the Third Way largely accepts capitalism as a suitable vehicle for delivering these values, and aims to modify it mainly in terms of the following policy goals:

lifelong learning (The Social Investment State)

a balance of rights and responsibilities

promoting independence through work

provision for genuine need

Political mobilisations, such as Margaret Thatcher's “property owning democracy” and Tony Blair's “Third Way” rely on reaching new political “settlements” that combine 2 or more of 4 apparently conflicting cultural projects in new ways. The stability of the settlement depends on its capacity to create cohesion out of conflict (Douglas 1996).

The 4 cultural projects can be represented as

A Fatalism. Individuals make themselves. No form of morality is reliable. Luck or fate determine outcomes. Institutions are incidental.

B. Individualism. Individuals should pursue their own projects. Institutions should prevent them from violating each others' rights to do so.

C. Hierachy. Individuals should keep rules. Institutions should reinforce rules, they should punish wrongdoing and reward virtue.

D. Egalitarianism. Individuals are made by communities. Moral character is the product of membership and belonging. Institutions should protect comunities.

Thatcherism was a mobilization that combined Individualism and Hierarchy, against the collectivism of the 1970s under Old Labour. The Third Way introduces Egalitarianism, but in combination with Individualism(the individual as the moral unit in society) and Hierarchy ( the need for law enforcement and strong central government leadership).

The ethical foundations of the Third way are shaky. Its attempt to combine individualist and collectivist elements in moral and political culture is a necessary corrective to the unintended consequences of Thatcherism, but its version of community as a system of membership and mutuality is flawed. This is partly because it relies on the values and emotions of the “blood and guts” code and partly because it fails to recognise how the rational legal regulation of liberal democracy protects freedom and difference. It is also because it transposes principles of reciprocity and fairnes in co-operation from the sphere of small groups and associations (where they belong) to that of large, complex market societies (where they do not). As a result, the Third Way is much more authoritarian, monolithic and narrow than is needed to restore the sense of belonging and sharing of our culture.

The paradox at the heart of Third way ethics is that new Labour's programme requires citizens to be more self responsible and more aware of their interdependence, yet its style of government gets in the way of this cultural shift. If what are needed are more morally autonomous, active citizens, then the enforcement of obligations to the state is unlikely to produce them. If change is what is to be promoted, enforcement counsellors are not the best way to achieve this.

So there you go folks, the ethical dilemma at the heart of New labour, and the Third Way as an impossible cherry picked mish mash of incompatible ideas. It's not advanced, it's not new and it sure ain't either Integral or Second Tier. It is, in my view, as green as green can be, trying to encompass bits of everything as valid, with no ability to discriminate in order to be congruent or effective.

Liz

Re: Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

Re: Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

Thanks Michael,

I do appreciate that Scots have no monopoly in feeling disenfranchised for the past 30 years, you are not the first person who has expressed this view. I suspect the euphoria which accompanied the first new labour victory came from those who did not identify with Thatcherism. Sadly, a lot of those people were disappointed, what they got wasn't what they thought they had voted for.

What will be fascinating is to see what happens when the Scottish and UK Parliaments have different parties running them. The whole area of conflict vs consensus will be worth watching.

Liz

Re: Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

I was going to stay out of this. Let the Brits quible about Tony, I thought. What business is it of mine? But–Tony is a great leader. I wish we had a president like him. I don't think people here need Ken to tell them he's integral, although I'm sure most of us needed Ken to tell us what integral was in the beginning.

Have there been any integral presidents? JFK? Some people say Clinton was; I think maybe he was a little bit. Hilary? Obama? I can't say I've studied them enough to really know, but I'm a little skeptical. Joe Lieberman seems indisputably integral to me, like Tony. McCain's the type that makes some people believe people can pass straight from orange to yellow, but I don't know that he's integral. I have seen him speak very sincerely about the environment, though. Okay, sorry for this tangent. Back to the UK. You were pretty lucky to have Tony for 10 years …

Re: Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

Now I'm certainly not the politically informed type, I didn't even realise that Charles Kennedy had stood down from the top job of the Liberal Democrats until yesterday! And I was going to vote for them on the day of local elections. Heh,
But I've seen enough of question time and looked at Labour policy enough to know it wasn't 2nd tier and from what I remember of Ken Wilber's remarks on the subject “having one foot in America and one foot in the EU” was apparently integral. Seems strategically sound too…

When I heard Tony Blair openly say that he had no problem with the gap between the rich and poor getting bigger I realised he was probably working form an Orange vMeme.  He also said “if people worked hard to get richer then they deserve it”, which on it's own is valid within an Orange vMeme frame.  Integral Politics is so complex and there's soo much labour didn't understand, local economies for one thing.  This organisation rocks - NEF. It understands how to create good social systems which promote happyness and is one of the leaders of policy creation of the second tier type in the UK.

Something I've noticed very often is that Orange/Green transitions can seem a little Yellow, and on rare occasions so do Blue/Orange insights.

What makes me laugh at politics is the ridiculously childish behavior and the number of facades that are used.  Will politicians ever realise that they are safe to be themselves and that it happens to be what many British people want, well, guardian readers want that anyway =).  Probably most British people like a NICE personality and some roughly socio-liberal policies eh? Uhh…

Over to y'all,
Dan

Re: Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

Hi Liz, Michael, David, Dan

I'd like to throw out a question.  I remember having a facinating discussion some years ago in my mens group - most of the members in the discussion were, I would say, green in values dev, but at least teal in ego/self development, and way above cognitively.  So they were totally open to the debate, and really interested in the openess of the debate.  They're very bright people, but they wern't looking at big pictures, they still had a predominantly green lens, and couldn't see the bigger patterns.  (This included me at the time too).  Aside from one guy, who was the person that later introduced me to Wilber's work.

The question we were asking was (and I'm paraphrasing):

Why has there never been a politician thats got into a position of power that reflects the level of awareness that we see with?  In other words…why has there never been a politician thats got into an influencial position that represents green to teal?

We didn't come up with a conclusive answer, but the conversation has really stuck with me.  I think I can answer it a lot better now, but I'd like to throw it out first, before I offer my perspective.  What do you think?  Why hasn't it happened?  And if we assume for the moment, that Liz is right, and Tony isn't 2nd tier', why havn't we has a 2nd tier prime minister?  And why hasn't any other country!?


Ewan

Re: Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

Good one,
Truly 2nd tier government hasn't really happened anywhere has it? It's probably happened in some ways through a combination of people and ideas coming to the top though. Switzerland is the best example I can think of for a sustainable structure and attitude.  Germany has some good points regarding sustainable energy production in that anyone can make money by putting electricity back into the grid, using a reverse meter people are given a much better rate than the electricity corporations.

Something that struck a monarchist friend of mine is that the five countries which Beck and Cowan reckon are ready for Teal government (Switzerland, Canada, Netherlands and two others I can't remember, maybe UK) all have monarchies in some way.  My monarchist friend has convinced me that hereditary passing down of great power is actually a very stable method of rule because the power is relatively secure which means that less time and energy is wasted getting votes.  My point is that another barrier to Green leadership is the intensity at which Orange rebelled against Blue, France is the most obvious example where the Blue meme has returned with force, bitter force, making it very difficult for true liberal values to stick.

I think the reason for the lack of green/teal politics is the momentum of previous memes.  Blue nationalism and Orange game playing are serious barriers to higher levels in Britain, the upper and upper/middle classes wanting to maintain their power is another problem because for more socially beneficial and sustainable economies the tax system must be used to take much more money and power from the upper levels. Modern separateness is another problem, Green should help a little with that.  Boomeritis is of course another barrier, I've had experiance with that in the WYFSD…

Green needs to come in to sensitise people so they're not shouting at each other in the house of commons =), then teal need to come in and sort out the inefficient egalitarian mess that will probably come of it.  The best place that I think teal could prevail at the moment is working within localities, rural areas and cities, creating strong local economic links for a healthy foundation to work with any cultural shift that is to happen across the scale of power.

Bests,
DanB

Re: Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

I can tell you–as if you didn't already know–that teal politics doesn't get off the ground in the United States. Amber (blue) thinks teal is liberal; green thinks teal is orange. I think that must be the same basic dynamic in other countries as well. The only chance in the United States would be if he or she were a very charismatic reformist type like Ross Perot, Jerry Brown, or John McCain (as he was in 2000) with a lot of grassroots support.

I love your House of Commons debates, by the way. Those are amazing. That's one of the places where I got such an admiration for Tony. There and in his arguements for the war in Iraq–I'm not saying that going to war was necessarily the right thing to do, but he and Jack Straw and the other (Sir__–he headed the British effort in Iraq for awhile; I forgot his name) were coming up with really refined teal arguements. There was hardly anyone in the United States making arguements like that, and none of them were in the Bush administration. Whether Tony has been teal on domestic policies I really couldn't say.

Re: Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

I forgive our American brothers for thinking Tony is/was integral.  Afterall, if one lives through Bush, surely any politician with at least half a brain seems somewhat integral?

Seriously though… Blair?  Integral?  I think he was half-in-half-out.  Sometimes he seems way beyond the usual mixture of orange and green we see in English politics.  (Scotland also seems to have more amber… some of it healthy, a fact that I am slightly jealous of as English amber is often unhealthy and mixed more heavily with red.)  Most of the time though, his presentation, particularly his arguments, didn't show that easyness of movement that comes with 2nd tier.  Real 3rd way politics would happily draw on policies from conservatism, social democracy, the right or left, etc.  In reality, that didn't seem to happen much.  Perhaps Blair was straitjacketed by a mostly-green party and a much-less-integral chancellor (Gordon Brown, who incidently will be the next PM, for those who don't know)?  In any case, I just don't get that 2nd tier vibe from him, and wonder what Ken knows that I don't.

Re: Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

Good question Ewan

I think the main problem is that politics doesn't depend on conviction or any kind of congruent belief system any more, we are facing the politics of pragmatism. It's all focus groups and surveys to check out what the public will vote for in a manifesto and what they will wear in terms of policy impllementation. Then they add in what they can spin or sneak through when no one is looking………….

Until there is some integrity restored, there will be no Integral in politics.

Oh and in case anyone didn't know the Scottish national party are now the ruling party in Holyrood, and Alex salmond was voted First Minister today. It has taken 73 years, I've been involved for about 25, but it feels like I've been there for most of it!

Oh well, all those frozen rainy nights outside Town halls waiting with more hope than anticipation for the right result in countless elections and by elections has finally borne fruit.
One step closer to  F R E E D O M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Liz

Re: Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

Hi Liz,

One thing has always puzzled me: why don't all Scots just vote SNP?  I realise Alex whatshisname isn't as sexy as Gibson, but… well, what's the deal?

I saw on the news today a bunch of people interviewed on the streets of Edinborough, and I was suprised how many were just so… blaise.  I get annoyed when the EU try to do things like ban goji berries, and that's a fairly mild violation of liberty in comparisson.  I was annoyed enough to consider voting UKIP, but they had no people running in my district.  Alas.

Re: Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

If this means more men in kilts, then that's my kinda freedom.

Liz

p.s. apologies for taking the discussion down a level. My brain is otherwise engaged.

Re: Tony Blair to stand down on 27th June

For some of us, Liz, it means a lot more than that. I've waffled on a bit in my blog about the election if you are interested. Though there's nothing wrong with men in kilts either :-)

gavin, I have no idea why everyone doesn't just vote SNP……..old habits die hard I guess.

Here's a good site with proper debate about Scottish issues, looks like its being hosted by Pat Kane, the Play Ethic author. http://theplayethic.typepad.com

A New Blog - Scottish Futures

Just to let any Play Ethic aficionados know who might be interested, I'm starting a new blog/ideas forum called Scottish Futures (www.scottishfutures.net), which will take very specifically the topic of visions, policies and strategies aimed at the realisation of Scottish independence. It's my own small answer to the question I posed in the Guardian blog below. This will enable me to keep the Play Ethic blog clear for purely play-oriented material. Please visit, tell me what you think.