IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

One of the core concepts in Wilber-5 is the worldspace. No longer is there a reality out there simply waiting to be discovered. Intrinsic features of the Kosmos are in part interpretive (con-structured) and not just part of a pregiven world. Whatever is “intrinsic” to the Kosmos changes with each new level, each new worldspace

This means that every new level or station that appears must explore the territory with fresh eyes, not knowing exactly what will be found… or I should say con-structured.

Each essay will be published in this thread, and will also be cross-posted in that person’s blog. Everyone in the pod is invited to comment, in that sense this is just like any other thread!

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Sounds great, Pelle.  Looking forward to it! 

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Delicious!  Thanks Pelle for orchestrating this Blogapalooza on Worldspace…. can't wait for Monday (did I just say that? ;-)

Cheers,
Stacy

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Here are a couple of things to keep in mind re: worldspace, or lifeworld as Habermas calls it. This is excerpted from a longer discussion called “Postmetaphysical Thinking 4: Enter the Dragon” at Open Integral (http://www.openintegral.net/blog/?p=107)

From Martin Morris in The Derrida-Habermas Reader: “Between deliberation and deconstruction: the condition of post-national democracy,” pp. 231-253.

Habermas accounts for the ‘space in between' by locating it, so to speak, on the phenomenological ground provided by the concept of the lifeworld.

But the lifeworld only reveals a portion of itself in any dialogue because it exists as a phenomenological ‘background' of pre-theoretical, pre-interpreted contexts of meaning and relevance.

The ‘lifeworld' itself cannot be the proper theme of communicative utterances, for as a totality it provides the space in or ground upon which the utterances occur, even those that name it explicitly. It is, hence, ‘at once questionable and shadowy…it remains indeterminate'; its opacity and taken-for-grantedness endures even for theory, which hence cannot adopt a transcendental approach to the lifeworld's structures themselves.

Communicative actors are always moving within the horizon of their lifeworld; they cannot step outside of it.

I suggest that his [Habermas] solution to the problem of the indeterminacy of this space is unsatisfactory…. [it] ought not be considered only in terms of…the lifeworld or…the dynamics of reaching agreement in language.

Derrida refers to Plato's notion of (the) khora…[which] is the space that ‘gives place.'

Here we return to the articulation of the ‘space-in-between'…. But khora is a concept at once non-identical with itself in its very intention ‘as if there were two, the one and its double', for it opens ‘an apparently empty space' but is not ‘emptiness'.

For Derrida, by contrast, what is indeconstructable is rather the formless, structureless space in-between, the abyss or chasm ‘in' which the cleavages between sensible and intelligible, body and soul, can have a place and take place.

There is no natural identity among differentiated social identities that can claim the right to represent the wholeness of all….But some identities do claim this right and achieve hegemony. Such an identity can do so only by signifying itself as that which takes the place of the ‘empty signifier'….the operation of hegemonic identities depends on successfully taking the place of, and representing, this constitutive absence.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

And if you're wondering if “lifeworld” is the same as “worldspace,” here are a few quotes from the final draft of Integral Spirituality before publication. I don't have the published book but have skimmed it and most of the draft, if not all of it, survives intact in the book but at different page numbers.

These 8 primordial perspectives of any occasion are summarized in figure 1.2. The sum total of these 8 views we call Integral Perspectivism. We inhabit these 8 spaces, these zones, these lifeworlds, as practical realities. Each of these zones is not just a perspective, but an action, an injunction, a concrete set of actions in a real world zone. p. 50

Each view or perspective, with its actions and injunctions, brings forth a world of phenomena; a worldspace that (tetra-)arises as a result; a worldspace with a horizon. The sum total of all of that we simply call a hori-zone, or zone for short. A zone is a view with its actions, its injunctions, its lifewold, and the whole shebang called forth at that address. p. 55

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Both of the above quotes do indeed survive verbatim per this link:

http://www.kenwilber.com/Writings/PDF/ISChap1_EXIS_2006.pdf

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Here's some more background for your lifeworldspace:

From HABERMAS’ LIFEWORLD: VALUATION AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF NARRATION by Nicholas SCHMIDLE at
http://www.new-thinking.org/journal/habermaslifeworld.html

“From a perspective turned toward the situation, the lifeworld appears as a reservoir of taken-for-granteds, of unshaken convictions that participants in communication draw upon in cooperative processes of interpretation.”(9)

HABERMAS DEDICATES NEARLY half of the second volume of The Theory of Communicative Action to working out the terminology, meaning, and implications of this statement.

The main point of agreement between Husserl and Habermas concerns the a priori status of the lifeworld—specifically, its being “always already” there.(11) According to Habermas: “it is prior to any possible disagreement and cannot become controversial….”(12) Moreover, the lifeworld constitutes a background enabling mutual understanding that the individual cannot step away from; participating in the lifeworld presumes the inability to ‘get around it.’ “In the situation of action, the lifeworld forms a horizon behind which we cannot go; it is a totality with no reverse side.”(13)

As Husserl noted, for the lifeworld to count as a shared understanding it must be given to the ‘we.’ Habermas states: “The members of a collective count themselves as belonging to the lifeworld in the first person plural….”(22) But stepping beyond Husserl, Habermas grants that the lifeworld, while individualized, is not privatized in consciousness.(23) It is not my lifeworld that surrounds my involvements in work, school, home, etc. It is ours, in so far as it is given in the “first person plural.” As a result, Habermas does not rush to embrace the isolated individual and determine how he or she discovers meaning in the world. On the contrary, he is committed to discerning how value and meaning are transmitted and reproduced through communicative action in the domain of the lifeworld.

The lifeworld consists of three components—culture, society, and personality. According to Habermas, previous conceptions of the lifeworld were too often cast in a single dimension.(25)

However, Fultner contends that an origin of valuation is never given because Habermas’ theory of communicative action presupposes an “always already” meaningful lifeworld, which itself supports communicative action with meaning. “If the lifeworld and communicative action mutually presuppose one another, the notion of intelligibility or meaningfulness itself remains, in some sense, mysterious and unexplained. Thus, we cannot really speak of a ‘ground’ of meaning.”(27) So which comes first, communicative action or the lifeworld?

“The lifeworld is the…vast and incalculable web of presuppositions that have to be satisfied if an actual utterance is to be at all meaningful, i.e. valid or invalid.”(28)

“The more cultural traditions predecide which validity claims, when, where, for what, from whom, and to whom must be accepted, then less that participants themselves have the possibility of making explicit and examining the potential grounds on which their yes/no positions are based.”(32)

Before Habermas even adopts a theoretical attitude towards the lifeworld, he is already situated in the lifeworld that is meaningful to him. Habermasian valuation, therefore, cannot be traced back to any “ground of meaning.”

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Or in Habbie’s own words, from Postmetaphysical Thinking, pp. 142-3:

This [lifeworld] background, which is presupposed in communicative action, constitutes a totality that is implicit and that comes along prereflexively—one that crumbles the moment it is thematized; it remains a totality only in the form of implicit, intuitively presupposed background knowledge. Taking the unity of the lifeworld, which is only known subconsciously, and projecting it in an objectifying manner onto the level of explicit knowledge is the operation that has been responsible for mythological, religious, and also of course metaphysical worldviews.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Hi theurj,

Thanks for sharing some background info about lifeworld, it's seems to be a precursor to worldspace - but not quite the same thing.

The goal of this blogopalooza (thanks Mary for coming up with the name!), is not necessarily to explore the theoretical underpinnings of the worldspace, but instead to share some perspectives that have become apparent to the participants after they were (involuntarily) catapulted into an Integral worldspace. It could of course also be about exploring what a worldspace is, since it is only at integral levels it makes sense to talk about this concept, but not necessarily.

peace
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Ok, here we go!
The Blogopalooza starts today, and here is my contribution.
It is also cross-posted in my blog.

Personal Perspectives from an Integral Worldspace

(or… what I consider to be important shit right now)


Shadow work

Any part of the psyche’s I-stream can be severed from our self-identity and be either repressed, projected, dissociated or in some other way hidden from ourselves. The cut-off parts are usually unconscious and hence referred to as Shadow. Normally we tend to think that Shadow is a bad thing and something that needs to be fixed ASAP. While it is definitely true in my book that Shadow work and reintegration of lost parts of the psyche are some of the most important spiritual practices there are, let us also remember that our ability to form Shadow is a gift without which human societies wouldn’t be able to function.

Growing up, our life in general and our families in particular (or lack thereof) expose us to a series of mini-traumas and possibly bigger ones as well. The ability to form Shadow in these situations is what keeps us sane and enables us to keep on growing cognitively, value-wise, in our sense of self, etc. As children we still don’t have the ability to change our life circumstances, nor do we know how to sublimate or use other more mature strategies to deal with life’s hardships. To a certain extent (ie in at least some lines of development) this can be true throughout people’s lives, which makes the ability to form shadow an important and natural part of being human.

Even though it’s a gift to be able to form shadow, it is just as important to be willing to deal with it when more favorable conditions return. As Integralites we climb higher up the spiral than most, and this makes it especially important to face disowned parts of ourselves. High towers need strong foundations to stay in place… It's also important to remember that the higher up the spiral we go the greater our ability to affect other people, and large amounts of unprocessed shadow will make us about as responsible as Darth Vader.

So how do we integrate lost parts of ourselves? First let me say that I do not include psychosis and PTSD in the concept of Shadow, these are distinct disorders and need different approaches. The Shadow work I want to promote in this essay is psychotherapy, even though there certainly are other valid practices. The second person perspective that a trained therapist can bring to the table is invaluable, considering that our deepest projections and repressions are very hard to spot on our own. Furthermore a therapist can provide a cocoon of unconditional acceptance that eases the knots of anxiety that usually keep repressed/projected parts in place. In a way I believe that seeing a trained therapist is extra important for people with high cognitive development, such as Integralites. Amidst our brilliance regarding meditation, books, yoga and frameworks it can all too easily be tempting to want to bypass good old-fashioned terapia, I certainly know that I did for a long time…

Some of the more common therapies include psychodynamics, cognitive-behavioral, Gestalt, dialectical behavioral therapy, transactional analysis, body psychotherapy, and many more.


Framework

How do we think about ourselves, our lives, Kosmos itself and where we are going? All of this is largely determined by the framework we consciously or not so consciously ascribe to. At integral levels of consciousness Ken Wilber and his AQAL framework is the best known and as far as I know most complete framework. Having some intimate knowledge of his latest model Wilber-5 is invaluable to any person with an integral cognition. It is of great value for quickly and effectively communicating with another person who knows of the framework, and it has great potential as a tool to bring different branches of science together, just to mention a couple of its uses. Once you “download” the AQAL framework to your mind it is there in the background for you to draw upon as needed.

A potential problem with AQAL is that it is so all-encompassing that you might think it’s the only framework you’ll ever need. Another trap many of us tend to fall into regularly is confusing the content-less AQAL structures with Ken’s own opinions on a variety of subjects (effectively making him both judge and jury, though he never asked for those positions). A third pitfall is getting stuck in your head juggling concepts, instead of exploring actual territory with your own raw Integral consciousness. An effective antidote to address these three traps is getting familiar with other Integral frameworks and thinkers.

Susanne Cook-Greuter for example has some vivid, alive and yet scientific descriptions of Ego Development that add some much needed meat to the dry bones of AQAL levels. Robert Augustus Masters, a k a RAM, is an Integral Therapist who in his texts repeatedly displays a grounded Integral consciousness while remaining fluid in thought, body and spirit. To me it is apparent that there is deep value in freely expressing interior Integral worldspaces without automatically being restricted by AQAL, and in my book RAM is one of the best examples of this.

To be effective in one’s daily life I believe in having a framework that is not strictly related to different stages of consciousness. AQAL is great to have in the background to make sure most bases are covered, but it is not exactly juicy nor does it inspire me to take action. NLP on the other hand is a much better example of an action-oriented framework focused on results. One of its simplest techniques is focusing on what you want versus focusing on what you don't want, and this is a key concept for everyone wanting to be effective. Human creativity is sparked by the images, thoughts and feelings we carry around; so intentionally focusing on what we want will automatically give us a stream of ideas on how to achieve it. This also connects to the importance of Shadow work, since we will naturally focus on positive goals/dreams instead of negative fears as the death grip of the Shadow subsides. Whether strong human intentions can sometimes translate into non-local communication between humans, and thereby also aid us in pursuing our highest purpose, is a controversial topic in the Integral movement and I will therefore let it rest for now. For the purposes of this discussion it doesn’t even matter since a clear focus and strong intentions are still needed to put your brain and creativity to work for you.

Other interesting NLP concepts are Presuppositions (here and here), Representational Systems (a type model), Meta Programs and Reframing.



The Masculine and The Feminine

You can call them types, energies, polarities, modes of being or any number of terms. Throughout history man- and womankind have been fascinated with the Kosmic play between the masculine and the feminine. Integral is the the first stage of development where we have access to a worldspace wide and resilient enough to start investigating and integrating these two energies in a deeper way.

On a group level men clearly have a predominance of masculine energies and women of feminine ones, but individually it may vary. Important to remember is also that every individual possesses both, and therefore must make peace with each side of the spectrum and somehow find a way to work with both in spiritual practice.

Besides making the distinction between the masculine and the feminine, I distinguish between the intellectual, the interpersonal and the spiritual. This leads to six different combinations: the intellectual masculine, the intellectual feminine, the interpersonal masculine, the interpersonal feminine, the spiritual masculine and the spiritual feminine. It is my hope that fleshing it out this way will be of practical value, and not only an exercise in theory.

The intellectual masculine means having the agency and guts to flesh out your own ideas as clearly as possible, and also daring to disagree with others if you don't feel that their ideas hold up to scrutiny. It all takes place in the world of concept and ideas, and the intellectual masculine is usually thriving on Integral forums such as the I-I pod and the Multiplex forums.

The intellectual feminine is less preoccupied with structures, framework and agentically challenging others’ ideas. Instead it wants to engage intuitive and messy ideas that it feels doesn’t get, and might never get, addressed by ever-expanding frameworks from the intellectual masculine. Instead of wanting to challenge other people's ideas, it simply wants to be heard and hear others sharing their ideas.

The interpersonal masculine is an outward force that is striving to help others acheive agency. A core example is lovingly challenging someone else to grow, or challenging them to own something they appear to resist. This could be when somebody openly claims to have a certain shadow, but behaves in quite the opposite way - to take one obvious example. It can also be in the form of asking a tough penetrating question, and that of course has the advantage of letting the other person choose how deep he/she wants to go in the growth process. Fatherly tough love also falls into the category of the interpersonal masculine.

The interpersonal feminine wants to unconditionally embrace people, no matter how messy the situation is or how much a person has fucked up and gone against the good, true and beautiful. It doesn't consciously challenge another person to grow, but can still induce growth by increasing self-acceptance.

The spiritual masculine is addressed rather often in the Integral movement. Key points include the striving for freedom and transcendence, for example through sitting meditation. In some ways it is a “clean” and ascending spirituality that aims to transcend the messiness of lower levels. It is impersonal and ultimately looks for unity with the creative impulse of Spirit itself.

The spiritual feminine is also increasingly addressed among integralites. The focus here is more on bringing spirit down to lower levels, and embracing more and more in ever-expanding circles of love. Embodiment is a key feature, as are engaging paradoxes and trusting intuition. Spiritual dancing is a common example, but there are also forms of meditation that lean towards the feminine.

Ultimately all six categories represent different ways of approaching God and approaching Love.

The Missing Links of the Wilber-Coombs Lattice

One of the important concepts of Wilber-5 is the difference between horizontal and vertical enlightenment. The first one means state training until you reach a non-dual plateau, since that is the “highest” state known, and the second one means transcending and including relative realm stages until you are at the leading edge of the evolution of consciousness. The two concepts make a lot of sense and do clear up a lot of confusion around the issue of enlightenment. At the same time they raise a new set of questions…

Regarding vertical enlightenment, exactly what lines of development need to be at the leading edge? Cognition? Values? Who gets to decide what lines of development need to be at the leading edge to have achieved vertical enlightenment? It seems to be at best a moving target… Horizontal enlightenment on the other hand, seems to be more easily defined, as long as we can assume that there is only one horizontal line. The problem that arises here is instead that even a non-dual state plateau does in no way guarantee good health of the bodies that have been transcended, ie gross, subtle and causal. In the gross realm we give Shadow and levels their due attention – but why not extend the same courtesy to at least the subtle body?

I am a firm believer that vertical development of the subtle body exists; one example is the development of each chakra through different stages. We also find Shadows in the subtle realm, and these are often spoken of as blockages in the energy flow. Furthermore it is quite possible to speak of the horizontal health within a certain level of development of the subtle energy body (ie healthy translation). Finally we have the current state of the subtle body or of an individual chakra, and this seems to be the most common way of addressing the health of this energy body - but obviously this is an oversimplification.

Spiritual Bypass vs Genuine Spiritual Gains

Steve Pavlina and his subjective reality perspective on VA Tech seems to be an endless source of controversy and debate, spawned by a blog entry of his. Many people in the Integral movement felt he was championing a dissociative approach in this blog post, and not accepting the suffering of samsara. I want to state my position on these questions briefly but clearly.

Pain cannot be escaped. Loss cannot be escaped. Emotions cannot be escaped. These are intrinsic parts of human beings in 3D reality.

However, our relationship to pain, loss and emotions can be modified in at least two general ways. First of all Ego Development as well as healthy translation can make us more complex and resilient as individuals. This leads to the ability to feel pain more fully in the moment and hence process it more quickly and more thoroughly. Secondly, horizontal spiritual development through meditation and other state training techniques lessens our exclusive identification with the gross realm. This does not make pain go away, but it can make suffering as a consequence of pain all but disappear.


New Age

This is another point of controversy and a pet peeve for lots of Integral debaters. I personally believe New Age to have both healthy and unhealthy green spirituality hidden inside of it. The healthy parts include love, hands-on healing, community, treating people well, reconnecting to spirituality after losing touch within the orange worldspace. Unhealthy parts include magical thinking, not wanting to look at one’s dark parts (Shadow!), not wanting to do any uncomfortable work at all, not being able to distinguish compassion from idiot compassion.

The healthy parts have their given place as partial truths within an Integral worldspace. The unhealthy parts need to be addressed by integralites, but lovingly as well as firmly, so as not to alienate those who are struggling to find a spiritual path in their life. Didn't we all use to be green at some point in our life? Can we find compassion for those we were and for our current internalized green selves? If we can, I think it will be much easier not to attack green but instead gently point out its inconsistencies and carefully explain to its followers how a more Integral approach could be of benefit.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

great to get a good long piece from you pelle!

nice work.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Hi

Kudos to you for starting the blogapalooza! I like your essay a lot - I feel its rooted in your experience and enquiry and that makes it very real for me. Reading it slowly as I eat my mushrooms some thoughts occur…

You say that being able to create a shadow is a gift for human beings. It helps them function in dangerous situations where if they did not repress certain things they would surely be targets for other people’s anger. I agree, repression is an important of immature defence. So just to round this out the mature form is conscious repression and that would be a better gift than shadow making but not one that is much given when young.

I was just listening to the latest Ken chat today, and he reminds us that we grind to a halt in our “relative enlightenment” ie up the structures if we have too much energy trapped in our shadow. I think that’s an important point and I wonder about Darth Vader types. I don’t think Darth Vader’s centre of gravity is high on the spiral at all. But his ability to use subtle energies is very high. Just that one line. BTW, I think most of the jedi would also have a major shadow and thus be fairly structurally low….? Because they are all trapped in the duality. How many Jedis have them have embraced the dark side? And why was that martial arts sith dude the sexy one? What we need to spice up that series is someone who has truly embraced both sides! And please not a muppet. It would be a divine opportunity lost for a truly sexy character.

You ask a good question about which lines are the key ones. I suppose the ITP modules give a clue of which lines I-I thinks are the key ones: spirit, body, mind and shadow. I would immediately plonk “interpersonal” right in there. Bang In the middle like a cuddly fat bottomed toddler .

I have a question for you on shadow work. You say that there needs to be more on subtle shadow work. But I thought that most shadow work was at the subtle level? (cognitive, emotional). As far as I understand, the ater development was the gross manifestation of shadow (Reichian body armour, Hakomi etc)?

And finally, the Pavlina issue. You say our relationship to suffering can change with ego development (vertical development) and horizontal development ie structures and state development. I would add shadow work too, because if you do the first two and have a big shadow, there will be a lot of unconscious suffering that will erupt like a tsunami at some point.

blessings
Gitanjali

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Gitanjali said:
You ask a good question about which lines are the key ones. I suppose the ITP modules give a clue of which lines I-I thinks are the key ones: spirit, body, mind and shadow.

Shadow (ego defenses) is a legitamite line, but body, mind and spirit are stages (with for example the cognitive line or the shadow line running through them).

I have a question for you on shadow work. You say that there needs to be more on subtle shadow work. But I thought that most shadow work was at the subtle level? (cognitive, emotional). As far as I understand, the ater development was the gross manifestation of shadow (Reichian body armour, Hakomi etc)?

I agree with this: shadows have UR correlates, which express as subtle energy blockages and (later?) in the gross body as muscle tensions and even diseases. But when moving horizontally through the WC-matrix (state training), you can develop different kind of shadow issues, apart from those in vertical development. I think Pelle is referring to those as well. As I understand, Ken is writing about that for his extended version of Transformation of Consciousness. Does that also appear in the current version? I don't have that book, since I'm waiting for the new version…

But I agree with Pelle that there's very little knowledge of what actually happens in terms of subtle energies in relation to shadows, but then again, scientific studies into subtle energies are in their infancy. Blocked chakras seem to be turning counter-clockwise, while open chakras turn clockwise. But since each chakra has multiple stages, can a given chakra be blocked at one or two of these stages only?

Related question: the most detailed account on the structure of the human energy system I've come across to date are the books by Barbara Ann Brennan (I'm not a big fan of her theorizing though). I'm studying these books at the moment. If anybody knows of similar or even better works, then I'm very very interested! (I already know about Leadbeater, Motoyama, Myss, Bruyere)
 
Peter
 

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

julian:
great to get a good long piece from you pelle!
nice work.

Thanks Julian.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

That's a very interesting read, Pelle! Apparently, we share the same worldspace :)

I have a few questions/comments, as well as some minor criticisms, which I will try to get back to later today. For now, I'd just like to ask if you came up with those six masculine/feminine distinctions yourself. I like them a lot, extremely useful!


Peter

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

My experience tells me there is no finite self. Therefore there is no finite shadow. I do not see the unconscious shadow as a accumulated package that I will be able, one day, to trancend, disolve or accomodate. Therefore I do not need to address it, as that only would forever perpetuate its manifestations. There is no bottom to the phyches barrel. There is no end to human traumas.  I will address it in the sense of being aware of it when it arises in my experience and see its habitual patterns but my focus would be on the clear seeing, the awakened awareness that brings maturity and sane rational thought to any situation. In that sense, there is no “turning back”, only looking forward, if you see what I'm trying to convey? I have never been exposed to therapy so I can't speak of the benefits, but I have never been drawn to it. My focus and heart has always been in finding the truth, realizing the truth, share the truth, heal with the help of truth, awaken others to a relationship that has no limits. A meeting where One self operates between us. Through joint seeing, through sheer and utter trust in this real position of non-seperatness, of you and me seeing eye to eye.
What I do see, since awakening to mine and yours timeless/eternal Self, is a growing sense of “dressing” this new birth with clear understanding of acting in selfless love, based in an ever increasing love for the mystery itself that burns within. In relationship everything comes to a point, ones love and understanding is immediately revealed as you face another.
This is so much more rewarding I believe than to do years of personal therapy work. Why? Because in the end, you still have to go out there and “meet” your neighbour, and you can never learn how to be with another. That is a moment that has never before occured and the focus is on clear seeing and wanting to meet in truth. That is not dependant on your shadow. It might still be lurking there but it is of no greater obstacle to our meeting, if we pay attention.
That's why I would always promote to seek the truth rather than to go to therapy. But this is if we are looking for spiritual freedom. People who is looking for something else, therapy might be very valueable. Why would I stick by this view? Because I have seen so many people who are fantastic in knowing of their traumas and shadows but still have no clear understanding about spontanious loving freedom. A freedom that can be enacted with shadow present.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Björn:
In relationship everything comes to a point, ones love and understanding is immediately revealed as you face another.
This is so much more rewarding I believe than to do years of personal therapy work. Why? Because in the end, you still have to go out there and “meet” your neighbour, and you can never learn how to be with another.

Do we have to choose? Can we not practise both at the same time?


Björn:
Because I have seen so many people who are fantastic in knowing of their traumas and shadows but still have no clear understanding about spontanious loving freedom.

I too have met lots of people who fit that description. Therapy can easily be used to get to know your shadow without actually changing or processing anything. Some therapists have no problem with this since they get a paying customer for years and years.
Buuut, I have also met lots of spiritual people who are great at state training, seeing the One in everyone…. and still are either big assholes or disembodied or in some other way dominated by their relative self and its shadows.

I respect your choice to focus on the “higher” perspective, but I think it's vital to include the bringing of awareness to shadow that you talk about.


peace
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Yes Pelle,

You're right of course. I'm a bit quick to generalize.

Thanks for a thorough and meaty post. I will have a read again.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Hmm, you seem to be dodging therapy by saying that only the nondual matters, and denying the dual realm in the process…
 
Shadow, by definition, is a distorted self-image, necessarily accompanied by a slight or severly distorted view on the rest of the world.  So whatever you think “clear seeing” is: how are you going to accomplish that with all shadows intact?

Since shadow is unconscious, it's not going to arise in your awareness. Except if you make it conscious, but then it's no longer shadow, and that very process is therapy.


Peter
 

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Maybe I am dodging therapy, but it has never drawn me in. (Maybe I'm unconsciously avoiding it in order to keep my dark side?) No but joke aside, I do appreciate the dual world and all thorough distinctions we draw from it. I only feel it comes to be truly understood from a “non-dual” perspective though. And in any given encounter all our “flaws” are revealed, made revealed and if payed attention to, also made self conscious of. If we want to see ourself clearly, we first need to seek that clear perspective. Once we have tasted “One taste” we can distinguish between appearances, perspectives, ideas, conditioning and cultural and gender manifestations. If we pay attention, all is revealed to us. If not alone, for sure it will become evident in relationship with others. But of course, the key is, if we want to find out. If we don't want, or don't care, we wont bother and then just gloss over all information that is readily available to us all the time.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Bjorn:
And in any given encounter all our “flaws” are revealed, made revealed and if payed attention to, also made self conscious of.

Well, that sounds just like therapy, so maybe everybody's your therapist and you're not paying for it. Which is…. very smart! :)

So yes I agree with that; every relationship acts like a mirror. The only difference with “real” therapy, is that using a good therapist can be a lot more efficient. Maybe you're not dodging therapy, just the therapists :)


Peter

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Gitanjali:
I don’t think Darth Vader’s centre of gravity is high on the spiral at all. But his ability to use subtle energies is very high.

I agree. I was mostly using him as a humorous illustration…


Gitanjali:
And why was that martial arts sith dude the sexy one?

Cause he looked like me?
That's the most serious response that comes to mind, lol


Gitanjali:
You ask a good question about which lines are the key ones. I suppose the ITP modules give a clue of which lines I-I thinks are the key ones: spirit, body, mind and shadow. I would immediately plonk “interpersonal” right in there. Bang In the middle like a cuddly fat bottomed toddler .

So that would make cutting edge interpersonal skills part of vertical enlightenment?


Gitanjali:
You say that there needs to be more on subtle shadow work. But I thought that most shadow work was at the subtle level? (cognitive, emotional). As far as I understand, the ater development was the gross manifestation of shadow (Reichian body armour, Hakomi etc)?

Good point. What I'm really outlining in my essay is a pure UR perspective of the subtle energy body (ie UR/subtle), and reminding myself and all of us that even here we can add levels, Shadow, etc.
It's not necessarily a separate Shadow or separate levels from the UL (though it could be that some shadows more easily pop into view from this perspective), but I think it's a good exercice to let go of the exclusive focus on UL/gross when talking about levels, and UL/subtle when talking about Shadow.


Gitanjali:
And finally, the Pavlina issue. You say our relationship to suffering can change with ego development (vertical development) and horizontal development ie structures and state development. I would add shadow work too, because if you do the first two and have a big shadow, there will be a lot of unconscious suffering that will erupt like a tsunami at some point.

I agree. What I'm actually talking about is an increased ability to process emotions and that certainly includes processing shadow emotions too.


peace
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

kessels:
For now, I'd just like to ask if you came up with those six masculine/feminine distinctions yourself. I like them a lot, extremely useful!

Thanks. And yes, I did come up with them myself.


kessels:
I agree with this: shadows have UR correlates, which express as subtle energy blockages and (later?) in the gross body as muscle tensions and even diseases. But when moving horizontally through the WC-matrix (state training), you can develop different kind of shadow issues, apart from those in vertical development. I think Pelle is referring to those as well.

Exactly. Some shadows are more easily seen from the UR/subtle perspective, and state training shadows could certainly fall into this category.


kessels:
Blocked chakras seem to be turning counter-clockwise, while open chakras turn clockwise. But since each chakra has multiple stages, can a given chakra be blocked at one or two of these stages only?

I've read about the clockwise/counter-clockwise thing and I can actually sense in my own body that this is so. Theoretically it's a bit harder though. What is clockwise the end result of? Healthy translation, ie not a lot of shadow? A certain level? A certain state? The last alternative can be ruled out through repeated measurements, but otherwise we don't really now what is being measured except that one option is a lot healthier than the other…

Can a chakra have a block only at a certain stage? My guess is yes. I'm thinking that most blockages in chakras actually correspond to a certain stage, just like shadows from an UL perspective can be said to correlated to a certain developmental level.


peace
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

pelle:
Thanks. And yes, I did come up with [the six m/f categories] myself.

Respect! I'll properly refer to you when I use them, then :)

Can a chakra have a block only at a certain stage? My guess is yes. I'm thinking that most blockages in chakras actually correspond to a certain stage, just like shadows from an UL perspective can be said to correlated to a certain developmental level.

That would be my guess as well, but if some stages of a chakra are open while some are blocked, then why is that chakra turning in any specific direction? Maybe each sublevel of a chakra is turning indivually (once it's activated) and you mainly feel one of these because it dominates over the others (higher amplitude)… I can imagine that a block in the emotional field influences emotional energies in a much different way than it does thought-related energies.

Peter

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

kessels:
That would be my guess as well, but if some stages of a chakra are open while some are blocked, then why is that chakra turning in any specific direction? Maybe each sublevel of a chakra is turning indivually (once it's activated) and you mainly feel one of these because it dominates over the others (higher amplitude)… I can imagine that a block in the emotional field influences emotional energies in a much different way than it does thought-related energies.

I would tend to agree with these guesses. It's still very much a black box though…

peace
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

thanks for emphasizing the psychotherapeutic/shadow aspect of integral self-work pelle!~ glad this is generating some discussion.

your masculine/feminine extrapolation is elegant and well-thought out - thanks for that beautiful contribution.

i have a couple questions for you.

q1: you pointed out the problem with magical thinking, but it sounds like you don't think the pavlina va tech piece is magical thinking - so:

a) why not - how do you distinguish magical thinking in it's negative sense (or what you are calling unhealthy green) from specifically what pavlina said that created such a commotion? it sounds like you see them as different - how so?

b) i know you wanted to be brief but clear. i still feel unclear on your position though. if you have a moment, please explain the ways that your integral analysis of that pavlina va tech moment differs from IN host stuart davis and Integral Theory creator ken wilber's to-the-point analysis of it as “the meanest of the mean green meme” and “absolutely pathological.”

q 2: my sense is that dissociation occurs along a spectrum from full blown delusional psychosis to mildly compartmentalized, checked-out denial and rationalization. so while i agree that psychosis and dissociation in their most extreme forms are rare:

a) do you not see the compartmentalized denial and rationalization of say pavlina's so called “subjective reality” concept and/or the magical thinking inherent in both his interpretation of va tech a la numerology, manifestation etc and the secret's so-called “law of attraction?” if these are not good examples of defensive/deluded magical thinking - can you give an example of what is?

b) seeing as you have expressed the idea that there are authentic higher stage versions of both the LoA and subjective reality - how do you distinguish prerational from transrational in these specific classic new age cases?

3) lastly, how does your understanding of the shadow, repression, and other classic psychodynamic defenses relate to either or both a) subjective reality and the LoA (especially with regard to tragedy, injustice, child abuse, chaos etc) and/or b) people like myself, stuart davis, ken wilber and others who might by your assessment be erroneously commiting a reverse pre/trans fallacy in our integral analysis of these popular ideas? pavlina has suggested of course that we are “just jealous…”

oh and here's wilber on the subject of the relationship between absolute and relative - which is what i think you are getting at with your assertion about how suffering affects us as we keep developing. your paragraph on ego-strength/resilliency and being present with pain in an authentic way is quite powerful - i think both what you are saying and what wilber is saying in the above video is quite different from what i see as pavlina's mangling of non-dual, psychological and oversimplified philosophical (solopsistic) ideas - ideas that actually can be quite damaging and iimiting of the kind of growth we want to foster.

notice also that wilber does not say that the pain affects you less - he says that as you keep waking up it hurts more - but bothers you less. as you allude to - healthy growth means that  one can honestly tolerate the existential relaity of pain with more compassion. i would offer that in terms of pre/trans confusion - if you leave out the “hurts more” part you have by definition disconnected from the relative realm in pursuit of a kind of regressive narcissistic perfection where pain is not real at all.

this goes to balder's wonderful piece on the difference between krishnamurti's ideas and the way they get distorted by new age voices.

anyway - as i said, nice to get a good long piece from you and well done on starting what promises to be a fun and thought-provoking week!

~julian

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Julian,

My take on Pavlina's piece is that:
1) He needs to clearly say that he is referencing the absolute, if he is in fact doing that. Not explicitly stating this is confusing and unskilful means.
2) Some of what Pavlina is writing could certainly be interpreted as magical thinking. Another interpretation of the same sentences, is that he is relentlessly using all information as a way to grow interiorly. I don't know which option is true for Pavlina, you need to ask him yourself to get the answers you're after!


My thoughts on the LoA can be further explored in this thread, the LoA is not the focus of this discussion.

In your other questions you are making a lot of assumptions that are not in my text. If you want me to answer something you claim that I have said before, please quote exactly what I said so I can comment further on it, if needed.


peace
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Oh, I had a sense that this whole Pavlina can-o-worms was going to get opened again.

For the record, I hadn't really read much of Pavlina's blog before the whole controversy erupted. Having read the VA Tech post, I agree that the way it is written can cause a whole lot of confusion in readers, depending on their altitude. He seems to conflate absolute with relative, leaving a trail of disillusioned readers behind him. And that's all I'll say about this horse that's a bloody mess after all the beatings.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Cross-posting from Pelle's blog:

Pelle, first of all, I want to say thank you for organizing this Blogopalooza and inviting my participation. I loved this day one exploration of integral wordspace. Now on to the dialectic…

You said: “It's also important to remember that the higher up the spiral we go the greater our ability to affect other people, and large amounts of unprocessed shadow will make us about as responsible as Darth Vader.”

I get the gist of your statement here; however, I would add for clarity that it is our ability to affect people in a constructive manner that is enhanced. People at all stages have the power to act in ways that are destructive to the people around them, often in ways that are more impactful (in an immediate sense) than the subtle direction those at higher levels are able to offer.

Regarding psychotherapy, you'll see in my essay that I am a huge proponent of it, so kudos for hitting that important nail on the head. Based on my experience, too many people feel “above” psychotherapy, and they lose out on a potentially extraordinary tool that can have significant impact on their ability to translate successfully and transform to higher structures.

Regarding frameworks, I love AQAL, but I find that the jargon is of limited use in the world at this point. Very few people are schooled in AQAL, so its impact in my life has been primarily internal. Well, outside the I-I Zaadz pod, anyway! The internal impact has been profound in terms of significantly upgrading my worldview, but now that I have a more inclusive OS, I don't go around thinking in terms of quadrants all the time. It's more seamless than that. It's like AQAL helped me see all four quadrants, but the lifeworlds I inhabit tetra-arise and I don't have to name them as UL, UR, etc. Once one has integrated AQAL, I find using the jargon limits the ability to see the world in all its messiness. On the other hand, when I am in contact with AQALly aware peeps, the jargon can help frame the discussion without all the explication that is required in conversations with those not in-the-know, so I agree with you on that point.

I also agree that one potential pitfall of the AQAL model is that most of the people that are attracted to it have a pretty robust intellectual line, and there is danger of that line being relied on to the exclusion of embodied practice (I have been prone to that myself!). I think this is one of the distinguishing features of teal versus turquoise: Teal is an intellectual investigation; turquoise implements embodied integral practices.

I recently finished the overview paper you've linked to by SC-G, and I agree that it is quite useful for adding meat to the AQAL bones. RAM is great for reading examples of a lived practice. I haven't investigated NLP much; more to do!

I see much value in your attempt to flesh out masculine and feminine typologies; I agree with jikishin that some clarification and reformulation might be even more useful. Unfortunately, I don't have time to riff on that right now.

I laughed and cringed at the same time when I saw the mentions of Pavlina and New Age. LOL. I agree that it is useful (and wise) to discuss the positive aspects instead of simply berating the negative; otherwise, partiality clouds the attempt at bringing people to higher levels of understanding, if that, in fact, is the purpose of such critiques.

Again, excellent debut!

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

My reply to Colin, cross-posted from my blog:


Hi Colin,

Thanks for your feedback!

I do agree that I could flesh out my six m/f categories in more detail… it's just that the categories came to me so recently that they haven't matured in my interiors yet. Any constructive criticism is welcomed.

Regarding higher development and ability to affect others constructively/destructively… Yes, it's certainly true that developing emotionally, value-wise etc will only let us affect more people in a more constructive way. But if we for example have a cognitition that has risen all the way to teal/turquoise, but have our values and emotions at a red/amber level - then we could certainly use our high cognition to do more harm than less developed “evil-doers” are capable of.

Again, thanks for the feedback!

peace
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Pelle: Regarding higher development and ability to affect others constructively/destructively… Yes, it's certainly true that developing emotionally, value-wise etc will only let us affect more people in a more constructive way. But if we for example have a cognitition that has risen all the way to teal/turquoise, but have our values and emotions at a red/amber level - then we could certainly use our high cognition to do more harm than less developed “evil-doers” are capable of.

I agree with you on the distinction between intellectual and emotional/value lines. I'm not sure that one at second tier cognition would be likely do something that would cause more harm that someone at lower levels might cause. Have any examples? Perhaps by using intellectual understanding to deconstruct less-evolved worldviews and then leaving them to themselves to sort through the demolished belief system? That predisposition might be more teal than turquoise. Hmm.

By the way, it seems that it might be prudent to direct comments on the subsequent essays to the poster's blog. It could get quite messy in here otherwise when people hit this thread for the first time mid-week and want to comment on earlier contributions. Anyone agree?

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Colin:
 I'm not sure that one at second tier cognition would be likely do something that would cause more harm that someone at lower levels might cause. Have any examples?

Usama bin Ladin and 9/11 (teal cognition, red values)
Karl Rove (teal/turquoise cognition, amber values)


Colin:
By the way, it seems that it might be prudent to direct comments on the subsequent essays to the poster's blog. It could get quite messy in here otherwise when people hit this thread for the first time mid-week and want to comment on earlier contributions. Anyone agree?

I want podsters to be able to comment right here in the pod, otherwise we divert all energy away from the pod. If this thread gets messy after a while, feel free to start a new thread for a new essay. Cross-posting in our blogs is still a good idea, since Zaadzsters who are not in the pod get to comment as well.


peace
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Pelle: I want podsters to be able to comment right here in the pod, otherwise we divert all energy away from the pod. If this thread gets messy after a while, feel free to start a new thread for a new essay. Cross-posting in our blogs is still a good idea, since Zaadzsters who are not in the pod get to comment as well.

Good points. I guess we'll have to determine if new threads are appropriate as the week unfolds.

Pelle:
Usama bin Ladin and 9/11 (teal cognition, red values)
Karl Rove (teal/turquoise cognition, amber values)

What proof do we have that these guys are at teal cognition? High intellectual capabilities do not necessarily translate to teal cognition (I know this is obvious, but…)  Sedond tier cognition implies the ability to take the entire self and systems as objects for inspection. Do we believe this is true for these guys? 

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

I'm actually glad that this distinction is coming up here because it is one of the areas that I still find myself confused. For example, Susan Cook-Greuter's (featured on IN this week, BTW) model discusses levels of psychological development, right? I haven't yet seen an explication of how one develops from magenta through indigo and higher in different lines. What's a good KW resource for that? I mean, I get it in theory, but how does this actually translate to lifeworlds? I guess I just don't see how Bin Laden or Rove could be seen as having second tier capabilities, despite their high intellectual functioning. As I said before, do they take their selves and the systems in this world as objects for evaluation? Have they moved beyond sole identification with their finite selves? Perhaps I'm the one confused, but there seems to be more to second tier than what these men have achieved.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Colin,

When we talk about “second tier persons” I think we are implying that at least cognition and values have developed to integral levels. If you subtract the values from the equation, the person will no longer appear to be second tier at first glance, but if you start noticing what they have achieved and how they are able to think - you can make a qualified guess that they have an integral cognition.

I'm not sure if cognition is enough to see a new worldspace. Maybe it is, but I would imagine that the new worldspace opens up even more when the values line catches up.

SCG combines perspective-taking (ie cognitive development), values and sense of self in her model. She combines these to get “stations of life” in a sense, and we usually have one station that we predominantly act from.


peace
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Hmm. That helps some, but it's still hard for me to imagine how one might get to a truly integral cognition and still have a red or amber value line.

Moving on…

8)

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Pelle,

I like your essay - it seems well balanced, especially the section on Framework.

One comment: you state,

An effective antidote to address these three traps is getting familiar with other Integral frameworks and thinkers.

The trap in there is that those of us who tend to “be in their heads” too much never get “out of their heads” anymore…

Good work - looking forward to the other essays.

Frans

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Frans:
An effective antidote to address these three traps is getting familiar with other Integral frameworks and thinkers.

The trap in there is that those of us who tend to “be in their heads” too much never get “out of their heads” anymore…

Yes, we do need to move beyond frameworks entirely.

Sometimes we can “enter our bodies through our heads”, for example RAM's writings can be an example of this.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

“We need to move beyond frameworks entirely”

That, my friend, is a very significant statement - and I couldn’t agree more!

Frans

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Thanks, pelle; that was great. I especially liked the explanation of the shadow and how it forms; that was really clear. Also, the question about which lines are most important is really interesting; that would make a good thread. I also liked the positive aspects of the New Age you mentioned; it is generally more positive and, in some cases, less decadent than the cultures that precede it . Another thing it tends to lack is a purpose higher than one's own self.

I also really liked your distinctions between the intellect, the interpersonal, and the spiritual, and the masculine and feminine versions of these. The one that needs particular attention, I think, is the intellectual feminine; I don't think we can characterize it as “messy,” for example. It could be, if the person hasn't adequately developed their intellectual masculine, but not necessarily so. It seems to me that the intellectual masculine is concerned with the philosophy and activity of agency and thinks in very linear, cerebral ways while the intellectual feminine is concerned with the philosophy and activity of communion, or relationship, and thinks in intuitive, nonlinear ways that will end up being just as sensible if the person has developed the intellectual masculine as well.

In terms of writing, the intellectual feminine might not favor the introduction-discussion-conclusion-type format that the intellectual masculine often prefers; it might get its message across by telling a story. We might say that, generally speaking, essays are a masculine form. and fictional and poetic forms are examples of the intellectual feminine. In the case of fiction, if the person also has a well-developed intellectual masculine, you might get something like Anna Karenina or Buddenbrooks; if the person doesn't have a well-developed intellectual masculine it might look like … I don't know, think of a big messy novel without form and direction. Likewise, a discursive essay could be very rigid and closed or very flexible and open depending on how well a person has developed the intellectual feminine. Of course that's also a stage issue.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

David,

Thanks for the feedback on the intellectual feminine, you add some extra meat to what I wrote.
BTW, I used “messy” in a positive context, ie that the intellectual feminine will have less tendency to shun away from that which is hard to explain or just flat out weird.


In terms of writing, the intellectual feminine might not favor the introduction-discussion-conclusion-type format that the intellectual masculine often prefers; it might get its message across by telling a story.

I actually included this in an earlier draft! That the intellectual feminine would tend to use story telling, poetry, stream of consciousness writing, etc to get its point across. The reason I deleted that part is that I don't believe that there are any rigid boundaries in this area. Poetry and story telling can access both polarities I think,  even though the feminine is usually predominant. I'm thrilled that you brought it up with examples and all, and we seem to be very much in agreement here.


peace
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Pelle,
thats a great combination of integral clarity and invitation to be in touch with embodiment in practice.

I’m fascinated by your section on the Wilber-Combs lattice.

arguably the three horizontal levels indicate the three most important lines of development, as ive tried to play with in this diagram: (couldnt hyperlink for some reason) http://aura.zaadz.com/photos/20/196195/large/Diagram1.jpg?

its a 5 minute job so could be way out, but the idea is to somehow explore the lattice with three simultaneous lines that are integrated, a way to try and focus on the moving target more inclusively,. whether it works or not - probably trying to simplify something complex into a 2d diagram isnt viable.

I think its a topic that needs exploring.

fascinating typologies of masculine and feminine. i’ll need time to digest that, when ive had a good nights sleep ;-)

brilliant stuff!

cheers

melv

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Hey Melv,

Thanks a lot for the praise!

I don't think I grok what you're saying about the W-C lattice, but then again it's even later here than in England :)
If you write something more tomorrow I'll be sure to check it out.


peace
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Totally buzzing thread! :)

There's a lot of branching pathways in this journey….

But just starting from my first point of confusion…Peter, (or anyone) can you explain to me a bit more about the ITP lines of development or states? I dont have it here myself but I figured that the mind aspect really developed the coginitive line, the body aspect, the gross body, and the spiritual aspect, the ability to go into different states, no?

All confused and I probably need to go read my Wilber 5 again…
Gitanjali

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Mr Pelle,

i agree with others that the masculine feminine concepts you have introduced are very interesting…

Just looking at how youve delineated them, I could see them as three of the key lines of development: spiritual, interpersonal and intellectual…
So, then it makes me think that perhaps all the lines can be divided into masculine feminine? kinesthetic, music, shadow, body, ethics, work?
Perhaps part of the fleshing out of AQALwill involve looking at this?

Miss Gitanjali

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Hi Miss Gitanjali,

A good thing to keep in mind is that we all have access to the feminine and masculine aspect. The higher up the colour scheme we are, the easier it becomes to move fluently between the two…

Frans

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Yes Frans….I have a feeling….thats where a lot of the fun is…


OK this smilie is driving me nuts

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

gitanjali:
Just looking at how youve delineated them, I could see them as three of the key lines of development: spiritual, interpersonal and intellectual…
So, then it makes me think that perhaps all the lines can be divided into masculine feminine? kinesthetic, music, shadow, body, ethics, work?
Perhaps part of the fleshing out of AQALwill involve looking at this?

I agree. Every line at every level has both a feminine and masculine perspective/approach.

What I have tried to do is describe some broad areas of life (sometimes fusing more than one line), and breathe some life into the masculine and feminine perspective. To me this makes it more practical and alive, ready to be used in dialogues or interior introspection.

You know if your smilies don't stop dancing soon, we're gonna have us some of this:




pelle 

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Dear Pelle, THAT smilie is Gross. Definitely not subtle. :P

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Yeah that was a bit muddled… ;-)

what i was first trying to expand on was the highlighting of the fact that the cognitive line sometimes gets valued above others, though i can see that Wilber is right when he states that the cognitive does need to be developed to a certain degree for 'the rest' of our beings to eveolve (2nd tier from teal to turquoise for instance), so i was trying to construct a three headed intertwined spiral of three of the most important lines: cognitive, physical (including centaur and even subtlerawareness)  and emotional (covering shadow work and interpersonal growth), using the three circles idea to try and see how they might cross over. So then you could use that to expand on the dots in the Wilber-Combs lattice, with each dot becoming three 'dots' to show how each line might look in a state and stage of horizontal and vertical developement.
Perhaps a little over-ambitious (certainly for my state of consciousness last night), but ill let it sit there, and maybe someone else can pick up and clarify…

Here's your words again:
Regarding vertical enlightenment, exactly what lines of development need to be at the leading edge? Cognition? Values? Who gets to decide what lines of development need to be at the leading edge to have achieved vertical enlightenment? It seems to be at best a moving target… Horizontal enlightenment on the other hand, seems to be more easily defined, as long as we can assume that there is only one horizontal line. The problem that arises here is instead that even a non-dual state plateau does in no way guarantee good health of the bodies that have been transcended, ie gross, subtle and causal. In the gross realm we give Shadow and levels their due attention – but why not extend the same courtesy to at least the subtle body?

I am a firm believer that vertical development of the subtle body exists; one example is the development of each chakra through different stages. We also find Shadows in the subtle realm, and these are often spoken of as blockages in the energy flow. Furthermore it is quite possible to speak of the horizontal health within a certain level of development of the subtle energy body (ie healthy translation). Finally we have the current state of the subtle body or of an individual chakra, and this seems to be the most common way of addressing the health of this energy body - but obviously this is an oversimplification.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Ok Melv, I see where you're going with that. We can map each line at a certain stage and state to get as much information as possible from a single glance at a diagram. You should definitely keep drawing your diagrams 'cause we do need to advance to 3D integral models instead of only 2D. I'm still contemplating the hypothetical transversal line, that one could possibly add to the W-C lattice. Ken and a Czech philosopher discussed this on an ISC conference call, and the latter suggested adding a transversal line to represent spheres of existence. He might very well be onto something here and in my mind I'm trying to connect that to the work of David Hawkins.

Another possibility is simply to add healthy translation as a third axis to the W-C lattice, that should give us some interesting 3D images as well.

Thanks for your input,

peace
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Even though it’s a gift to be able to form shadow, it is just as important to be willing to deal with it when more favorable conditions return. As Integralites we climb higher up the spiral than most, and this makes it especially important to face disowned parts of ourselves. High towers need strong foundations to stay in place… It's also important to remember that the higher up the spiral we go the greater our ability to affect other people, and large amounts of unprocessed shadow will make us about as responsible as Darth Vader

I am compelled to  resond to that bit, because its very relevant in my job…

Unfortunately its not only as we climb the spiral (if genuine growth occurs  the shadow will hopefully have been integrated enough to prevent too much of it running free to damage others), but also as we climb the responsibility ladder, which, unlike the spiral, can be done through many ways, from genuine readiness for responsibility to using, for example, feminine charms, to climb  the ladder in an organisational structure.
Then the tower can be held up falsey (for a time) until the goodwill of others runs too thin, but until that time, the ability for us and our shadow to affect others is unfortunately very high. (and there is allways the chance for redemption, for Darth to cast the shadow over the abyss even right at the end, though hopefully it doesnt have to involve the self-sacrifice of physical death…)

With regards to framework, i deeply resonate with your approach, open yet fully investigative.
A useful(?) idea im working with is to extrapolate the method described in some visualisation excercises, where one constructs a mental picture, whether pictorial, geometric or other, and while still retaining full focus and conscious awareness, one dissolves the picture to allow the space left behind to in some way speak to us.
This is how i am beginning to view the AQAL (and other) model(s), as i naturally dont really carry it with me in moment to moment interaction, but its allways there, yet i still want to explore such models more and more, and this way seems to open up the opportunity for meta-exploration without becoming too analytical in the moment.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Melv:
Unfortunately its not only as we climb the spiral (if genuine growth occurs  the shadow will hopefully have been integrated enough to prevent too much of it running free to damage others), but also as we climb the responsibility ladder

True. And they're also intertwined in that a person with high cognition and low morals will be the “ideal” person to climb the ladder of responsibility with less-than-pure intentions.


melv:
one constructs a mental picture, whether pictorial, geometric or other, and while still retaining full focus and conscious awareness, one dissolves the picture to allow the space left behind to in some way speak to us.

Seems like a cool way to bridge framework and territory. You seem to be a very visual person (according to NLP representational systems), and this makes you well suited to construct new diagrams, think up visualizations methods, etc.
Keep it coming bro :)


peace
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Pelle,

I am particularly appreciative of your treatment of shadow here. Your middle two paragraphs (which I will not quote for length and repetition here) I particularly love. As you can see I, at least briefly, touched upon this in my piece below. The realization of shadow as, very often, though not necessarily always, a survival mechanism is, I believe, an important aspect to eventual re-integration of those lost parts and many other things. In one sense, in a form of self-forgiveness, in another sense, I think, in an objective appreciation of a natural wonder and in another, a sense of appreciation for the gravity of the challenges and difficulties we as human beings by nature face. (Social, emotional, existential, etc.)

I am also appreciative of you mention of the need to eventually reach the “favorable conditions” for re-integration. How do you think that might work in terms of levels/stages? It seems like -at least to some extent -there might be the possibility to discover or create some kind of matrix or guide to better ensure that re-integration of shadow is not attempted prematurely (resulting, i.e. in just more shadow). Or am I thinking of this too simplistically or narrowly?

Also, what in you opinion is the basic difference between something like PTSD and shadow as we more commonly speak of it? Is it that PTSD eventually reaches down to Fulcrum 1 structures, and thus though affective (Fulcrum 2 -) and psychological (Fulcrum 3 -) elements might be healed and reintegrated, it is difficult to impossible to affect the same PTS methods and means to Fulcrum 1 structures? Also, do you think past the centaur level (or even just through state development) it is possible, perhaps, fundamentally change the nature of what could happen at Fulcrum 1? (I hope I'm not rambling off on a tangent here.) Meaning, would or could it be different for a sage or developed centaur experiencing what might cause PTSD in others?

I know this is your field of expertise (right?) that's why I'm asking.

All for now.

Peace, Tim

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Great comment Tim, let me try to respond as well as I can, mixing what I know and what I intuit.

I am also appreciative of you mention of the need to eventually reach the “favorable conditions” for re-integration. How do you think that might work in terms of levels/stages? It seems like -at least to some extent -there might be the possibility to discover or create some kind of matrix or guide to better ensure that re-integration of shadow is not attempted prematurely

I definitely believe that it is possible to create a kind of healing matrix, in spite of how simplistic that might sound. Like I said the 2nd person perspective is invaluable in helping us become aware of a shadow, and awareness is always the first step… turning shadow into no-longer-shadow. The 2nd person perspective (the therapist) can also help us greatly with letting go of the shame, because regardless of the content of the shadow it is almost always packaged in shame…
To this I would add having resources enough to start seeing, feeling and reintegrating the no-longer-shadow. Having resources I correlate more with healthy translation than having a high stage, though orange is definitely the minimum stage neeeded. Not having enough resources would mean that deep shadow work is premature. Fragile psychiatric patients for example often need their ego and general resources strengthened, as well as learn coping mechanisms. Trying to do deep shadow work with them will simply catapult them in a psychosis or cause self-mutilation, depending on the type of condition.

In other words I would say a healing matrix needs at least:
1) Second person perspective, preferably a therapist
2) Seeing the shadow clearly for the first time
3) Being thoroughly accepted by the therapist/person, so that shame is alleviated
4) Resources enough to keep functioning on a day-to-day basis while facing the former shadow fully for the first time, and integrating its gift.


I agree with you completely that the fundamental difference between PTSD and ordinary shadow is that the former reaches down to fulcrum-1 in a major way, wheras the latter might affect fulcrum-1 as well, but not as strongly and not primarily. Therefore I believe that regular trauma therapy benefits greatly from the addition of EMDR or binaural beats (for example Holosync). A fulcrum-1 issues needs a fulcrum-1 approach would be the simplistic rule of thumb…

As to who is sensitive to getting PTSD… that is a more complex issue. There are some biological variables, such as being born with a small hippocampus (part of the brain's emotional circuit). From an integral perspective, we can certainly speculate that general resilience from having done meditation and shadow work would make the brain less susceptible to PTSD. A centaur should be very much alive to the present moment, and therefore be less likely to dissociate and be flooded by norepinephrine by a large external trauma (ie less likely to get PTSD)

This is kind of my field of expertise. I worked 3.5 years with psychiatry besides the general training I got as a doctor. All this is in the past though, and I have no intention of going back to conventional health care. Working in such a stiff and orange environment (that the other doctor's believe in with amber conviction), was the fast road to killing my heart and soul….

peace, and thx again for the comment.

pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Monday May 21, 2007
6:00am

The ice is still lurking in large flat pans out from my shore. The ducks and geese are starting to arrive, feed and be gone again. Over the weekend, my bird feeder has been an activity zone of endless squabbles and bird-processing politics. The squirrels are about to beginning their frantic love-making, dashing up and down trees, making impossible leaps, all in an exhausting, enthusiastic, erotic play. Rosie has her dog friend Raymond down for the weekend. He is a scrawny, yellowish, energetic fellow, and I notice she has been starting to ignore him for the last day or so. I think the glow has gone south on that one. Love can be like that sometimes. Even as I write, a tiny wren perches on a post a few feet from my window and flits off again. A raven has been coming and going, depositing guttural, other-worldly sounds into the mix while surveying the situation. The gulls and the osprey will soar high in the sky, but not until later in the day. Last week on my way to Happy Valley, I saw my first bear emerging from the winter sleep. A black bear with a large, bleeding gash on his right front leg. He limped across the road in front of us, and then peered up from the ditch with a bag of garbage hanging from his mouth. In this remote corner of North America, at the end of the road, tucked into the wilderness with a lick and a promise, this is what is happening.

There is more too. My boys are playing soccer in the Labrador Cup soon. Daniel came home on Sunday with a broken nose, “It was crooked but I snapped it back in place. Good to go!” he recounted proudly, saying the word ‘go’ like ‘goa’ with the satisfying Labrador inflection, and then proceeding to add in the details of the enormous amount of blood on the scene from the kick he sustained to his head. He is graduating from high school this year, and the ceremony is Saturday coming up. His right eye may or may not still be bruised. David, the younger, has flown off south for the weekend to run in the Halifax marathon. It always amazes me that a child issuing forth from my womb can run these long distances, and more over has the enthusiasm and discipline. I wonder too at the jet-setting around. It is not congruent with my best intention at minimizing fuel consumption, but it is the way it is.

Beyond this, I have my gardening projects heating up. I am constructing a small green house next weekend from a kit I ordered from the Home Hardware. I have to get my transplants going in the next day or so. Last fall, we hauled stumps out of the back garden, the former site of the dog team pen. We rota-tilled and planted it with clover, a green manure crop, getting the sandy soil ready for big things to come. The snow has almost receded from it now. This garden is part of my big plans at sustainability, eating food from within my bioregion. My other garden is mostly filled with perennial flowers. The snow has lingered everywhere in this apparently endless effort to manifest spring. Now the delphiniums and Jacob’s Ladder, and Sweet Williams are making an honest appearance. The lilies are coming too. And all the rest, all that lay in waiting through this long cold winter, will soon make an entrance. We are finally melting down and opening up again for this year’s abundant return.

All of this is my context. These are the layers upon layers of bonded reality, twisted and turned by time and intention, into and out of which, I peer. Of course, there are more and more layers. There is the aboriginal community with the confounding tragedies. The red and green politics at play in the mess. There is the beautiful Grand River slated for hydro development. The toxic soil from the 2nd world war military instillation at Goose Bay is perplexing. The forests are described as ‘fiber’ and board feet by the forestry management working groups. The low level flying has fizzled out lately. For the last 25 years this has been the major source of income and now the economy of this area is in jeopardy. People are worried and restless. Resourcefulness is not an easy resource. There is Voisey Bay, the world’s largest ovoid of nickel, just up the coast. Mining it is the newest, major source of employment, a fly-in affair. Two weeks in and two weeks out. Lots of money, but lots of disruption. Not much of a way of life to raise a family, not much choice either…And so it goes. These are some of the endless details in this corner of the world that hold each layer bonded together. Each layer interfaces with the next. These layers emerge in my world, as I turn my attention to them, otherwise they just arise, and fall, arise and fall, somewhere beyond my sphere of action or awareness. Although I am not creating this plethora of reality, I am creating my experince of it. More than that, through my intentions, and actions, I can, at times, co-create this arising reality. Yet, even when I don’t do anything, I am still here, watching and waiting. The birds are still returning, the bears are waking up. Like them, my attention perches here and there. “What to do? What to do?”

We are at an unprecedented juncture in our human adventure. As it is, I am on a media fast of sorts; I have been for a long time. I have no television channels, no radio. Occasionally, I meander over to Google News on the nights that I work in the hospital. The details and effects of the global situation flood into this area in other ways. The price of gas goes up, the fashions change, the variety of food at the Co-op expands with labels coming from everywhere in the world. People complain that the pineapples are not ripe enough. In the lineup, they might exclaim and commiserate over the most compelling world tragedy as fed into them through Fox, and CNN. It is forgotten or not remembered that one hundred years ago a pineapple here would have been recognized as an unexplainable miracle. The significance of this miracle has been swallowed by our sheer and utter capacity to turn our attention way from this moment, to take this incredible experience for granted. As Brian Swimme has said, “we have forgotten awe at the surprise of our own existence.”

Around in these parts now, we have instant telepathy. Forget the pre-rational hoo-doo of the past, the nagging suspicions or intutitions, the haunted dreams, the shaky tents and the shaman. Now, we all have cell phones. I can talk to my sweetie and all the ones I love from the most remote corner of the wilderness here. If the reception is not good, there are satellite phones. They are made somewhere, Korea probably or Japan. I just have to plug in a night’s work at the emergency seeing sick people to get a bank credit. Then I follow this by flapping my hands around on this computer and I could get a satellite phone to arrive at the post office within in a week or so. It amazes me more than I can say, that I can tap on this concoction of silicon, plastic and wires, (hand movements once conscripted in essential activities of sewing, knitting and bread making and such) and I can reach into your lives, send out intentions, attract in all manner of stuff. This isn’t ‘magic’ though, I am told. “Science has explained it.” Like photographs and movies, “not magic” either I am told. Like birth, and evolution—no magic in that. “What Pineapples in Labrador! no magic in that, just hard work from some Ecuadorian peasants in bare feet and a coordination of transport and fossil fuels, that is how pineapples got here.” I can, for instance, tap away at this computer station and manifest coffee beans at the post office, or bikes, or clothes. It may even be that I can manifest my Beloved at the Airport. “Not magic though”, I am told. Not magic?! Hmmmph, I think. It looks like magic to me.

That we cannot see that this is magic, is to me, the most magical of all. It is a dark magic, mind. A gloomy sadness pervades the works. The garbage piles up, the need for shadow work increases, the fear of not-enoughness, the increments of denial, the refusal to consider the implications of our wanton behaviours on the whole of our context, all these hint at a terrible accounting problem. The earth is being metabolized at bust. Happiness is held ransom, somewhere enfolded in an impossible future. As Hermann Daly said, “There is something fundamentally wrong with a civilization the treats the earth like a business in liquidation.”

What is being called for at this juncture. What are we yearning to wake up to,? What are looking for?

I had a beautiful friend named Phoebe Rich. She died at the age of 96 a few years ago. In the early years when I first came here, I would sit with her out at Cunningham’s Brook on the bridge of her humble little house, 100 miles out on the coast. It was the same house that she birthed her children in, one of them breech and her all alone before her confinement time. It was the house built by her husband, Uncle Art, who fished salmon there, and trapped and Rocky Cove in the winter. The summers that I was there, we would sew grass, together. She taught me the krinkum-krankams, a method of making fancy edges on the grass mats, and she showed me how she dyed grass with red berries to make pretty patterns. We would sit and watch the sun go down in the late summer evenings, sometimes not talking for hours. “I am right content,” she would sigh, happy for my company, enjoying the stitches of her grass mat, the utter beauty of the setting sun, the gentleness of the summer breeze. All of it to me was intoxication, ecstatic, simple and elegant beyond imagining. “God is a God that gives” she would say to me, “He wants us to be happy.”

So what is it that we yearn for? What is it that calls us through the adrenalized confusion of this mad frenzy? Or alternatively, what calls us through the boredom of nothin’ goin’ down, no excitement what-so-ever? What is the miracle that happens when the story line gets dropped, when ‘the cause and effect’ explanation (as unarguably true as it is), becomes unconvincing anyway? What happens when the expectations get dropped, and nothing special happens, nothing at all? What happens when your eyes have been yearning their way into existence for 13.8 billion years, travelling through fire and brimstone, articulating this very impossible stardust from one impossible miraculous occurrence to the next, through dinosaurs and deserts, watery oceans and sharks and fields of corn, blue skies, and dramas of lust and love, romance and intrigue wars and famine, and more impossible yearning? What happens when these eyes coalesce together in this moment, arriving at long last, to see for the first time all that has been simultaneously arising in order to be seen? What happens when we pause in this messy stew, hesitating between the cause and the effect, the last reaction and the next reaction, and notice all of THIS? I mean, really notice!

The fabric of my life is the cloth with which it is my responsibility to polish the lens of my own perception. In some magic moments, Clarity arises. And in such moments, there is an unmistakable felt experience—the ordinary is infused, imbued, with the miraculous, as it is clear that it has been all along. Compassion blows through this moment like perfume. One drop of this magic and we cannot be the same.

When I lie on my back and look into the clear night sky, starlight arrives after its long journey through time and space onto the evolutionary technology of the givens, in this particular, of my eye retina—the light arrives back to the very place we both began this arduous, tumultuous and impossible journey. I am caught in the moment of eternal present. I know this much: in this moment, I am looking into the eyes of the Beloved looking into these eyes of mine. How could this ever be? I am filled with awe.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

wonderful to get a good long piece from you jane.

this is extraordinary writing - i would love to see you published as a regular column in a periodical or in a book that was a collection of this sort of writing.

so beautiful and evocative.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Beautiful, Jane!

Pausing between the last reaction and the next one, just being within the fabric of life… Your essay invites us into your world, which paradoxically enough is our world too. Thank you.

This quote jumped right out at me:
These are the layers upon layers of bonded reality, twisted and turned by time and intention, into and out of which, I peer.


Turning my attention back towards this moment,

Pelle



(For readers who can't post in this pod, you can go to Jane's blog and post a comment here.)

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Dearest Jane,

Moving past speechless I enter this space to express awe, respect and thanks. Your writing brings together the poetry of an artist, the insight of a mystic and intellectual depth.

Yum, yum, YUMMY!

This is the type of exploration I sensed was coming; thank you so much for providing some feminine balance to the oh-so-beloved masculine drive so frequently encountered here.

Deep Bow.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Jane,

This is wonderful, the best thing I’ve read in a long while…

I SO appreciate your way of bringing forth the essence of your soulful perspective..

Sometimes, when I’m sifting through all the theoretical webwork we spin around here, I am left scratching my head thinking: “A three minute song can lead me to a deeper level of communion with the Mystery than all this chit-chat.”

Thanks again for this lovely, melodic piece.

–Bob

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Jane, thank you.

there's not an open heart that wouldnt sing at such honest and flowing expression that so hits the mark, way more precisely than theorising can manage.

It's so to-the-point yet full of hope.

And so it goes. These are some of the endless details in this corner of the world that hold each layer bonded together. Each layer interfaces with the next. These layers emerge in my world, as I turn my attention to them, otherwise they just arise, and fall, arise and fall, somewhere beyond my sphere of action or awareness. Although I am not creating this plethora of reality, I am creating my experince of it. More than that, through my intentions, and actions, I can, at times, co-create this arising reality. Yet, even when I don’t do anything, I am still here, watching and waiting. The birds are still returning, the bears are waking up. Like them, my attention perches here and there. “What to do? What to do?”

What to do indeed, yet by asking the question in the way you have, the answer arises…

The fabric of my life is the cloth with which it is my responsibility to polish the lens of my own perception. In some magic moments, Clarity arises. And in such moments, there is an unmistakable felt experience—the ordinary is infused, imbued, with the miraculous, as it is clear that it has been all along. Compassion blows through this moment like perfume. One drop of this magic and we cannot be the same.

That reminds me of the lesson my mother has so often taught, to find wonder in everything that's around us, because it is actually wonderful, just as it is.
You have spread a seed of wonder awe and amazement, both at what you've written, and what those words carry me (back) to.

Humble gratitude.

Melv

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Ohhh blue eyes,

Your writing moves me without fail, your message penetrates to the innermost recesses of my soul, your perspective opens up my own.

These questions

”What happens when your eyes have been yearning their way into existence for 13.8 billion years, travelling through fire and brimstone, articulating this very impossible stardust from one impossible miraculous occurrence to the next, through dinosaurs and deserts, watery oceans and sharks and fields of corn, blue skies, and dramas of lust and love, romance and intrigue wars and famine, and more impossible yearning? What happens when these eyes coalesce together in this moment, arriving at long last, to see for the first time all that has been simultaneously arising in order to be seen? What happens when we pause in this messy stew, hesitating between the cause and the effect, the last reaction and the next reaction, and notice all of THIS? I mean, really notice!”

are a pointing-out instruction.

And before the shimmering display of your answer, my always-favourite one-liner of yours

”The fabric of my life is the cloth with which it is my responsibility to polish the lens of my own perception.”

and then, revelatory,

”In some magic moments, Clarity arises. And in such moments, there is an unmistakable felt experience—the ordinary is infused, imbued, with the miraculous, as it is clear that it has been all along. Compassion blows through this moment like perfume. One drop of this magic and we cannot be the same.

When I lie on my back and look into the clear night sky, starlight arrives after its long journey through time and space onto the evolutionary technology of the givens, in this particular, of my eye retina—the light arrives back to the very place we both began this arduous, tumultuous and impossible journey. I am caught in the moment of eternal present. I know this much: in this moment, I am looking into the eyes of the Beloved looking into these eyes of mine. How could this ever be? I am filled with awe.”

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Dear Jane,

MMMmmmmmmmmmmm… … ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh … … . .mmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I love to see, feel, hear, taste this awareness of yours rising at the edge of such broken wilderness  We are those little junkos at the feeder, “What-to-do, what-to-do?” 

“Polish the lens.  Polish the lens.”

I knew you would do this, just the way you did, at just the moment when the scoters fluttered to the ice-free beach and the sirens of suicide were quiet for the night, that you would show us the kingdom of heaven ever-spiralling from the chaos of sorrow and loss.  It takes great courage to seek beauty in such turbid waters.  What an inestimable gift you are to us all.

Thank you,
your Michael

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Thank you Jane,

Reading this tonight, I want to claim a right to be reminded. Having lived a decade of summers down east, along the Maine coast, where black bear meander tree farms and  koots scuttle atop the crack,…. your piece here became for me, layered across what it is, a meditation on childhood. My brothers and I would trapes broad stands of Norway pine risen among glens nested near meadows, finding a good deal more magic than we could imagine.

These days I find the vivid memory of folks like Mrs. Rich as welcome and peculiar as the pineapple. The pineapple. For centuries the motif of captains. On journey's return, they'd spike the fruit on their estate's gate post declaring, with this succulant moon rock of an aromatic beacon, I'm home. The pineapple. A case study in nudging indigeon into ubiquity. As are the cannons of extant and extinct traditions accessible via satelite.

Not too long ago, Jane, I read here of your close familiarity with the phrase(s), “Thank You God for, most, this amazing day”. That's a line I've said and meant aloud and in silence with regularity for years. What's the odds? Probably the sames odds as coconut in Siberia, huskies in Hawaii, I-I in amberland, or the latitude and longetude of any occassion being seen, known, shared, seen…

I I cap'n,

jikishin

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Jane!

I really loved being taken for a ride with you…from the exploding stars other galaxies to the ineffable gleam in your eyes. What a magnificent soul you are….passionate, intense, yearning….out there in the dark radiant air of Labrador…I can see you from my hot dry town on another continent.

Love
Gitanjali

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Blogopalooza Day 4 (Jeesh! This is long-alooza …)

Small Moves:  Reflections From Your Friendly Neighborhood Contemplative

I love that scene near the end of the movie Contact, after astronomer Ellie Arroway (played by Jodie Foster) has been tesseracted through several wormholes to meet with an alien intelligence. This intelligence has “uploaded” her memories, appearing as her beloved father on a starlit beach - a wisely hospitable gesture that, the alien explains, makes such momentous meetings easier on the newbie, the one who is having her first close encounter. Ellie has many, many questions she wants to ask: who are you, what is the history of your species, how did you create this traveling machine, to which the alien answers – using a well-worn phrase of her father's: “small moves, Ellie. Small moves.” In other words: this is only the initial meeting, a first step of many. Let us take our time on this journey, foot by foot, bit by bit. There is no need to know everything, say everything, solve everything, at this particular moment. Answers and actions unfold in the by and by … Even then, don't they usually lead to more questions, more uncertainties, more wild and woolly paradoxes…?  And though evolution and transformation does have its grand cataclysmic moments, much of it seems to occur through seemingly small, even hidden, moves tucked deep within the folds of time. Imagine the countless adaptations and mutations it took for humans to become what they are now. Or how a drop of water, which, joined with millions of other drops over the eons, carves great canyons into rock.

A few years ago the French Carmelite mystic Therese of Lisieux (1873-1897) paid me a visit in one of my dreams. Therese, often referred to as the “Little Flower,” is a kind of saint of “small moves.” Fresh from an Air France flight, camouflaged in a wool cap and Nirvana T-shirt, Therese a la grunge, she wanted to take a tour of my life - touch all its tiny little details, the textures of my day to day existence. I was a little ashamed to let her see my messy home office, our sink full of gummy dishes, our backyard overgrown with half-dead weeds. What must this young nun, accustomed to a neat and orderly convent life, think of all this mess? But Therese seemed to enjoy the external disorder of my life. With a grin, she peered at one of my disheveled bookshelves as if it were a field of exotic wildflowers.

Therese's “mission” in her short life was to teach the “little way,” that is: the way of spiritual childhood, the path of trust and surrender - a way that we find right where we are, day by day, in the messy sacredness of the small, the momentary, and the ordinary. Although there are New Testament references, in the gospels, about the necessity of “becoming as little children,” Therese usually referred to texts from the Hebrew scriptures (aka Old Testament) when explicitly teaching her little way: “Whoever is a little one, let him come to me” (Proverbs 9:4). “For to him that is little, mercy will be shown” (Wisdom 6:7). There is nothing cloyingly sentimental about spiritual childhood. It is a situating of oneself, with awe, reverence, and curiosity, before this wild Mystery that births us and surrounds us, with a trust that the Kosmos is quietly unfolding as it should, in us, through us, and with us. It is the delighted recognition that we arrived here through a Mother and Father, through forces beyond our grasp. From this perspective, then (referred to by integralistas as “the second face of God”) humility is never a demeaning of oneself. It is an embracing of what is.

These days my life is characterized by small moves rather than grand cataclysmic shifts. (Though of course, that could change at any moment!) Living with dysthymia - an on-and-off mild depression that I currently manage with supplements, frequent walks in sunlight, talks with a spiritual director, laughter, and prayer - is teaching me to focus my limited energy into small projects and tiny disciplines: toothbrushing as a spiritual practice, writing as prayer, editing as cognitive workout and income, the yoga of napping with cats, small-group contemplative volunteer work, and - when ambition has got the better of me - dishwashing and pulling weeds.

And bathing. I really dig bathing: soaking in the sacrament of the present moment.

Lectio Divina

She would never have defined it as such, but back in the day my mom practiced Lectio Divina (“divine reading”) in the bathtub - often with the bathroom door open, so that a passerby might catch a glimpse of her relaxing in the hot water, reading her leatherbound King James Bible and smoking Kent cigarettes. What long, luxurious, holy baths! She usually kept her bathing Bible on the shelf underneath the medicine cabinet. I'd open it sometimes while using the toilet. Its water-wrinkled pages were full of tiny little pencil marks - apparently she kept track of where she started and ended her readings. I saw that she would read just little bits at a time - from a few verses to a few paragraphs.

Long after she'd lost patience with churchrules, until the day she died, my mother maintained a downhome devotional life by sitting and smoking and soaking in the Word.

Lectio Divina is an ancient art - apparently practiced at one time by all Christians and kept alive in the monastic tradition - involving a slow, contemplative praying of the scriptures. Monastics divide Lectio in to four “movements”: lectio (reading/listening), meditatio (meditation), oratio (prayer), and contemplatio (contemplation).

Lectio - the first movement in the prayer, requires us to quiet down and read slowly - usually just a few lines, perhaps a couple of paragraphs. Since the voice of Spirit often speaks very softly and intimately, one reads with an attitude of silence and reverence. In this receptive mode, we listen for one word or short phrase that attracts us, that speaks to us in a personal way. During meditatio - the second movement in the prayer, we take that chosen word or phrase and ruminate on it, ponder it. We turn it over in our minds, and allow it to interact with our inner world of memories, concerns, and ideas. Thirdly, during oratio, we inwardly speak to God, interacting honestly with the Spirit as you would with a deeply loving other. Depending on the selected word or the phrase, one might express yearning, gratitude, anger, desolation, love, sadness, joy, peace, etc. Finally, with contemplatio, one rests in silence with the chosen word, simply being present to Presence.

Lectio divina has alternative forms, and can be adapted in a variety of ways for practice with small groups. Today practitioners see it as a way to open up and “pray with” a sacred book. “Sacred book” can be broadly defined – the New Testament, a collection of Rumi's poetry, a non-scriptural text, the realms of nature, a painting, events in history, one's own life experience…

Most often I practice Lectio with the written word - and once in a while with song lyrics. On occasion I'll keep a notebook of the phrases I've chosen for pondering. I may spend several days or a week or more with a particular phrase, listening to various nuances, inquiring into its meaning, hearing its truths, responding or reacting to it, observing with interest when it synchronistically resonates with some event in my life, perhaps encouraging me to take some action, offering me a long-awaited answer to an inner dilemma, or even kicking me in the ass.

A few of my past lectio phrases include:

“Seek, and you will miss.” (Anthony de Mello)

“Love one another as I have loved you” One-word version: “Love.” (gospel of John)

“There are thousands of ways to kneel and kiss the ground.” (Rumi)

“How long must I climb?” (Coldplay)

“You came out of nothing, isn't that something?” (Fr. Thomas Keating)

“Faith is the bird that sings in the night” (Tagore)

“Persevere” (Hebrews 12:1)

“All I need is your extra time and your kiss.” (Prince)

“Jesus wept.” (one of the gospels)

The practice of Lectio can allow a single word or phrase to bloom and release its hidden fragrances into our lives. It can also liberate myth. As Beatrice Bruteau writes in Radical Optimism: “The [biblical] stories are about us. It is to us that the angel of the Anunciation proclaims that through the power of the Holy Spirit we will bring forth from our emptiness divine life…

            “It is to us that the baptismal voice is addressed, saying, ‘You are my beloved child with whom I am well pleased.' And if we really hear that, we will be driven into a wilderness wherein we will struggle with the question of what that means and what its implications are. And eventually we will find, as was foreshadowed at our birth, that we are lying in the manger as food for the world.”

I most often use the Bible for both solo and group Lectio. Over the years, its wisdom has washed through me and through my Lectio comrades like a cool subterranean stream. Or perhaps we're… luxuriously soaking in it. I guess I really am my mother's daughter.

Centering in the Hood

For several years, I facilitated a centering prayer group at a Catholic church in a poor neighborhood near downtown San Diego. We would meet once a week to do a 20-30 minute centering sit together, followed up with group Lectio Divina, informal sharing, or one of Thomas Keating's Spiritual Journey videotapes. (An excellent series of videos, by the way, which elucidates the Christian journey in light of recent understandings about development, spiritual stages, psychology, etc. These videos are where I first heard about Ken Wilber).

It was a lively little group of diverse folks leading busy lives. And the church, situated just a few yards away from a busy trolley stop, was never a quiet place. We'd sometimes use electric fans to create white noise while we meditated, but usually the sounds of the city would come through - the trolley horn, police sirens, young men yelling and breaking out in fights. The Ballet Folklorica used the church's rec room to practice, so there would usually be Latin beats coming through the walls. Kids ran up and down the hall outside of the room where we met. So we often joked that we were getting in some very good centering practice - learning to sit still and let all those wild distractions come and go as we inhaled and exhaled …

Centering prayer involves consistently consenting to the presence and action of the Spirit within. Consent is anchored through the use of a short “sacred word,” (not the same as a mantra) which is silently repeated only when meditator becomes actively engaged with thoughts - including sense perceptions, feelings, images, memories, reflections, etc. The idea is to gently let the thoughts come and go while maintaining the intention. With practice, one eventually “falls into” contemplation, a state which, in Keating's words, involves “the opening of mind and heart-our whole being-to God, the Ultimate Mystery, beyond thoughts, words, and emotions.” It can be a deeply restful time; it also helps folks become more present to the present moment during their lives outside of the sit. As one practices nonattachment by letting the thoughts come and go, one can more readily offer their mind and their heart to whatever the moment requires.

Anyway, I just have to share this story. I know this is long already.

We had been listening to taped discussions on the relationship between contemplation and action. I think we had also recently done a group lectio on Matthew 25: 31-46: “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you … a stranger and make you welcome … sick or in prison and go to see you?” … “In so far as you did this to one of the least … you did it to me.”

Dennis, the attorney-saxophonist in our group, and our most steadfast contemplative, suggested that we needed to do something active together as a group. Our church was surrounded by the sick and the hungry: homeless people who slept on nearby sidewalks, not too far from the trolley tracks. Why not gather some items to hand out to them, and have this gesture become the “active” part of our group contemplative prayer?

I resisted. I already had my neat, tidy, and safe ways of serving the destitute - by donating to charities and giving old clothes to Goodwill or St. Vincent de Paul. And since I was the facilitator of this group and all, I took it upon myself to explain that activity per se was not really the purpose of a centering prayer group. Although our contemplative practices should naturally weave themselves into our actions - into our lives outside of the two 20-minute sits a day - that “weaving” was not to take form as a group activity in any explicit way. And I did my spiel of: “Ultimately contemplation is not personal and private, even though we usually practice the prayer solo. True contemplation is never ‘kept to one's self,' but instead charges all our interactions and becomes a part of everything we do, whether we are eating, changing a diaper, teaching, nursing a dying friend, playing, suffering through an illness, managing a business, fighting injustice ….” Etcetera., etcetera.  In other words: Um, let's not get that close to the homeless people.

But Dennis gently persisted. And when Rosie, everyone's favorite Mexican tia, felt persuaded toward this group action, I figured: well, I suppose there's nothing wrong with giving it a try, as long as we still do the centering prayer. Group members can choose whether or not they want to participate in these giveaways. We might solicit donations from friends and congregants, and pass out goods every other month or so.

Dennis had a very simple plan. (It turned out that this was kind of his thing, giving odds and ends to homeless people. He often kept extra blankets in his car, and on a cold night, if he was driving around and happened to see a street person who looked like he needed a blanket, he'd offer it to him. “They also like bottled water and new white socks,” he told us.)

So we began gathering bottled water, crew socks, nutrition bars, and plastic grocery bags. On the day of the handout, we'd place two waters, two pairs of socks, and two food bars in each bag, pile them into the back of Dennis' van, and drive around to the variety of “street camps” nearby. (San Diego has a lot of them, comprised largely of the mentally ill, alcoholics and addicts - and the occasional family with children.)

As a group (generally it was just three of us who did the handouts), we would slowly approach people, and simply ask, “would you like some water and some new socks?”

Almost always, folks really, really wanted the water and the socks. (And only one time did a man did ask for more. Reeking of alcohol, he slurred, “baby, what I want iz a hug!” Dennis and I simply grinned, but sweet aunt Rosie took him into her arms. She told us later than he licked her ear.) Especially, heartbreakingly, the street peeps rejoiced over the socks. I was completely undone during that first handout trek, to see the looks of sincere gratitude for a pair of new cotton socks. You would have thought we were giving away gold. I actually felt an odd, sad, shame - oh dear people, can these socks, these small things, make such a difference in your day? Oh please do not thank me so much for these few paltry items - I'm giving you nothing, really …

I had not expected their gratitude to bring tears to my eyes. Socks! Such ordinary things. Such small moves.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Mary, you move me. Seriously.

Some comments on resonances:

“small moves, Ellie. Small moves.” In other words: this is only the initial meeting, a first step of many. Let us take our time on this journey, foot by foot, bit by bit. There is no need to know everything, say everything, solve everything, at this particular moment. Answers and actions unfold in the by and by … Even then, don't they usually lead to more questions, more uncertainties, more wild and woolly paradoxes…?

Small steps and patience - this took quite some time to really soak into me after I experienced my rather extraordinary POP into 2nd tier. So now I'm no longer in a big rush to get somewhere (e.g. enlightenment). And allowing answers to lead to questions and back to answers and sometimes paradox is a wonderful station to watch it all arise from.

Therese a la grunge
I love it that guides often meet us on our terms! How utterly compassionate of them!

Thanks for sharing your experience with depression. So many deal with that at different times in life; I certainly did. It often helps to “come out of the closet” to join with others who have struggled, too.

I was hoping for some Christian Contemplative flava, and your explication of Lectio Divina is concise yet filled with beautiful examples. The lead-in about your mother's bathtime practice brings the reader right into it; I can imagine her with cigarette dangling in one hand hanging over the side of the tub and bible or pencil in her other hand intent on extracting wisdom. Beautiful!

Finally, your “bring it to the peeps” story, with all of its beauty hiding right underneath the messiness of life as a street-dependent person packs quite a punch. I started handing out nutrition bars to the people that stand at the bridge onramp I hit every evening, M-F, but I stopped after awhile. Now I'm going to pick up some socks and water, too! Something so simple, like you said, can actually make a difference in a person's life, and it's good to be reminded of that.

Thank you!

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Mary,

What a beautiful contribution!  Humorous, wise, humble, and just shot through with beauty. 
I love it that you brought in that scene from Contact – what a wonderful modern parable for helping modern humans to appreciate, with humility, the magnitude of the Intelligence behind the second face of God.  Kaballistic literature, like some Buddhist literature, has powerful passages designed to evoke awe in the face of the unimaginable vastness of Being.  But this vastness can return you to the ordinary with a new sense of wonder; suddenly, the “small” becomes pregnant with it.

“…lift your head from straw to look into the face of glory, born past your knowing, shining at your feet.”  This is how I tried to capture this feeling in an old Christmas poem I wrote.  Vast holiness and the ordinary as the fabric of the moment's gift.

I love the details you wove through your piece, Mary:  your mother's holy soaking ritual, wreathed in the “censer smoke” of her Kents; the noise and chaos of the city around your centering prayer room; the preciousness of socks and the sly lick on the ear…

To someone like me, who likes to keep striving for the big picture, the deeper insight, your reminder about “small moves” is humbling and comforting at the same time.  I don't receive it as a call to give up that impulse which seeks the broader view, but as a reminder to more fully savor what is already here, just as it is.  And also to recognize that the impulse to move beyond is sometimes a way of avoiding the discomforting, messy neediness of the present – the disorder of the streets – where simple love and attention is truly a gift.

Thank you, sister.

B.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

absolutely stunning writing mary. wow.

have you published this kind of contemplative conversational story-telling before? it's so rich.

can you elaborate on how the contemplative practice you described with the repeated words is different than mantram?

oh, and my addition to your phrases of lectio divina:

“the heat of midnight tears will bring you closest to god” - mirabai

and  by the same iconoclastic woman - ” i have felt the swaying of the elephant's shoulders beneath me and now you want me to climb onto a jackass - please, try to be serious!”

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Mary,

The softness of Christian practice shines through. The softness of your person shines through.

Your story-telling and your essay as a whole weaves a net of comfort around the reader, while still inspiring us to be real, and open to everything - not only that which fits with our preconceived notions.

“Small steps”… Yeah, small steps is a biggie for me. I like to make big changes, smash through walls, swoop down on what I don't like in myself.
Exhaling, accepting what is, and taking small steps from there… Sounds like a plan :)


thank you for sharing some of your interior with us,

gratefully
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Mary, I love this. Your writing is superb. Wow. And with it you are such a voice for the legitimacy and authenticity of Christian -and particularly Catholic-practice and spirituality. (I love your mom's practice. )

I also love that people around here love that movie Contact and seem to get out of it the same sorts of depths and meaning I did when I first saw it and was blown away.

A “little flower” for you and my thanks to St. T, speaking to you through your dream and speaking to us now through you …

Peace, Tim

(PS-I still need to catch up with eveyone else's contributions thus far. Ah … little steps …)

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Mary i ahve allways read your posts with intrigue and awe - pulled by your context, representing what i know to be the core of Christianity that is both unique and whole. I am attracted by all so called esoteric schools of thought, especially the European ones fused with the Sufic and Bhuddist core ideas(ls).

This post, which i will have to digest tomorrow, is for me an eagerly awaited window into a world that fascinates me, and one of your opening paragraphs sets off chords of koy and resonance in my heart and soul:

Therese's “mission” in her short life was to teach the “little way,” that is: the way of spiritual childhood, the path of trust and surrender - a way that we find right where we are, day by day, in the messy sacredness of the small, the momentary, and the ordinary. Although there are New Testament references, in the gospels, about the necessity of “becoming as little children,” Therese usually referred to texts from the Hebrew scriptures (aka Old Testament) when explicitly teaching her little way: “Whoever is a little one, let him come to me” (Proverbs 9:4). “For to him that is little, mercy will be shown” (Wisdom 6:7). There is nothing cloyingly sentimental about spiritual childhood. It is a situating of oneself, with awe, reverence, and curiosity, before this wild Mystery that births us and surrounds us, with a trust that the Kosmos is quietly unfolding as it should, in us, through us, and with us. It is the delighted recognition that we arrived here through a Mother and Father, through forces beyond our grasp. From this perspective, then (referred to by integralistas as “the second face of God”) humility is never a demeaning of oneself. It is an embracing of what is.

Humilty is a big word for me, a vitally important bridge to people, and if combined with quiet confidence, true freedom and facing fear head on - a direct consequence of humility, there's a formiddable but benign and positive force that can move mountains. Trust faith grace, letting the Kosmos ring through us - that is surely worth aspiring to.

Massive respect,

Melv

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

   Thanks Mary,

For a few weeks now, I've had this set of rosary beads plopped in a clump above my mouse pad. At the zenith of the loop, where the decant prayer begins and ends, a strand that links to the top of the cross is fastened to a sterling disk on which is afixed a relic of Therese of Lisieux. A secondary relic; a scrap of linen twenty-four warps and woofs across. Something that was once part of something that touched something touched by the Little Flower.

Of course, that tiny cotten grid holds no power apart from the significance asigned it.

Apart from context, and all the details of perspective, I too would be utterly meaningless.

That something that touched your heart and mind, Mary, and that your heart and mind touched reaches us, here, is miraclulous, imo. What's sown in us by opening to this pod, by taking part and partaking, by being participated in… time, and all that time includes, will tell.

Sown,

jikishin

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Okay, I hope this is not too out of the way.

“…a relic of Therese of Lisieux.”

That name gives me the chills.

“A secondary relic; a scrap of linen twenty-four warps and woofs across. Something that was once part of something that touched something touched by the Little Flower.”

More chills. Telling me this is important.


“Of course, that tiny cotten grid holds no power apart from the significance asigned it.”

I  used  to think so too, Jikishin – gravitate to the “It's all empty, and nothing ever happens” perspective. But now I see something more than that: a space directly in-between “Nothing” and “All Things,” such a tiny space where meaning need not be assigned by anyone, yet it still exists… not as a form, but pre-form, a vastness of potential meanings all merged into one, intrinsic to itself, inherent meaningfulness in potentia. Some may call it God.

I call it    nothing. But it calls me back and that is so satisfying. At first it made me cry a lot, though.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Thank you Mascha,

Your comment may not be tangental at all.
 
Personally I don't recall holding an “it's all empty and nothing ever happens” perspective.

How Mary refers to traces of meaning found in the simplest instance, the small ( not the reduced) in the humble( not the limited), I think, asks of our attention the acknowledgement of this same entire context in which we all live-and-move-and-have-our-being.

I think Mary's style of relating her perspective on the contemplative is as compeling as it is because it's both rooted in her own practice and resonant with the potentials of meaningful realization thereof, even on the part of her readers. 

No small gift !

jikishin

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Like soaking in a warm bath, Mary – without a bathtub. No end to the sinking in and slowly more deeply soaking…

Ahh…. visions, silence ~~~

Socks!

My bf and I will get socks before we do our next round. Black ones for the guys, I think.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Ah all you wonderful people – thank you for your kind words and generous feedback!  I'll be back with some more responses in a bit – things are quite busy for me at the moment. (And like Tim, I also need to catch up on my reading here!)
 
Gratitude and loving cybervibes,
Mary

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

oh yeah - and bathing is one of my favorite spiritual practices - especially with rumi close at hand and a big cup of hot yerba mate to fuel the ecstasy….

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

like Mary said! Thank you all…..I have to catch up too, and spend sometime feeding back too! And I will soon. I have loved all the posts, and Mary, I feel like getting out the Kent’s and drapping the ash from the cigarette over the tub and having a good ol’ read, oh, if only I could stand the smoking…..I am still feeling the lick on the ear so vividly, I am sure I have had a few of those myself.
Jane

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

My divinity, This blogopalooza is turning out to be delicious! I've been deeply enjoying all contributions.

Mary, I'm absolutely intrigued by your choice of that line from Kiss, and especially what you got out of it? Could you please share a bit about that, if it's not too personal?

A few other Princely song lines to ponder on, for anyone interested, which have expanded my worldspace:

Sacred is the prayer that asks for nothing

Love isn't love until it's passed

If the world was God, then people need to use it with the 3rd eye

A government of love and music boundless in its unifying power

Love the one who is love


P.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Dear Mary,

Softly burning word incense draws me past plucked weeds and up to your kitchen porch.  Mmmmmmmm … Damn, that's some good coffee girl. 

It took me 2 hours to get past this overture. 

Mary:  ”I love that scene near the end of the movie Contact, after astronomer Ellie Arroway (played by Jodie Foster) has been tesseracted through several wormholes to meet with an alien intelligence. This intelligence has “uploaded” her memories, appearing as her beloved father on a starlit beach - a wisely hospitable gesture that, the alien explains, makes such momentous meetings easier on the newbie, the one who is having her first close encounter. Ellie has many, many questions she wants to ask: who are you, what is the history of your species, how did you create this traveling machine, to which the alien answers - using a well-worn phrase of her father's: “small moves, Ellie. Small moves.” In other words: this is only the initial meeting, a first step of many. Let us take our time on this journey, foot by foot, bit by bit. There is no need to know everything, say everything, solve everything, at this particular moment. Answers and actions unfold in the by and by … Even then, don't they usually lead to more questions, more uncertainties, more wild and woolly paradoxes…?  And though evolution and transformation does have its grand cataclysmic moments, much of it seems to occur through seemingly small, even hidden, moves tucked deep within the folds of time. Imagine the countless adaptations and mutations it took for humans to become what they are now. Or how a drop of water, which, joined with millions of other drops over the eons, carves great canyons into rock.”

“Tesseracted…”  That's it.  Is that an unfolding or a refolding?  I loved how you took up Ellie's voice, how you showed us just where we were going: past cataclysm, beyond the woolly paradox, and on through wee folds of plentiful time - sweat by the drop from the pores of creation to burn canyon from solid rock.

And then this wee person Therese and her wee life pointed to the elegance of the small, to the “no step too far,” to limited dysthymic energy and the Lectio sub-Divina of Kent smoke and hot soapy water.

To this:

 “Anyway, I just have to share this story. I know this is long already.”

Yeah.  Right.  Like we're not all hanging on every word.

And this:

“Almost always, folks really, really wanted the water and the socks.”

That's when I could feel them coming - primed from the woolly folding of time and the power of water in that first paragraph, this sweet offering, simple and elegant, warm and wet, would leave such a humble and joyous impression.  With the fullness of surprise, tears come quickly at such a moment.

I have been thinking some more  about the nature of OM. (big surprise, eh?)  Now there's a Lectio Divina for you:  Ahhhh… Ohhhhhh… Oooooooo… . Mmmmmmm…

This life of your's Mary puts the “Ooooooo …” in Aum.

Yer pal,

Michael

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Oh Mary, I can pretty well feel that lick on the ear, see the long ash of your mother’s cigarette hanging precariously over the edge of the bath tub. I am thinking of Pema Chodron’s book, “Starting Where We Are”. God is in the details. Your beautiful honesty washes over me like a misty waterfall, warm and glorious.

I have just gotten a PM from one of my once-favourite posters telling me that he had gotten off the wagon, after spending so much of his time on the pod “doing what exactly?”. I am taking this to heart too as I have been feeling a strong pull to get immersed into the muddiness of the mud of my own life lately, noticing and then getting my version of the ‘gummy dishes’ done, reaming it all out, spring cleaning of the soul and the oven.

I am thinking too of Pelle’s post, the delineation of the various aspects of the masculine and feminine. It occurs to me that the voice of the feminine really is the one that calls us back home for supper. This voice is often too busy in the kitchen to spend time elbowing in, making its case for more and more attention and space on the theoretical map. The feminine voice speaks out of the immanence of spirit in the day-to-day, in the small steps, in the god of small things. It occurs to me that this voice is very poorly acknowledged in the Integral Theory Framework. Yet, it is also clear that without this feminine voice, everything else is in peril–the form, the scaffolding, dries up and becomes uninteresting, and even irrelevant. So much of what we are presently manifesting on the earth looks to me to be pure distraction, and much of the discussion about distractions become another layer of distraction as well. I am suddenly thinking of the picture in Electroglide’s posting last week….the little boy in the red trunks with the gloriously wicked smile and the bloodied bandage on his right knee. I can imagine a whole story line around the wounded knee, a tricycle perhaps, a rock in the road, little boy energy peddling faster than is humanly possible, the trauma, the tears, the comfort, the bandage, the joy of recovery. That is the story that I want to hear. That is what I love.

I have been drawn into the Integral Framework mostly from at the end stage of having to process my own do-goodie green impulses. I arrived at the Brief History after trying to affect change in the aboriginal community next door, and the ensuing frustration at my lack of effect(‘after all I tried’) and the ongoing sadnesses(‘you can’t tell us what to do’).

Last week, a friend was visiting. Now moved away, she lived here in the early years and describes her former self as a ‘rabid feminist’. As we ate our lovely shrimp supper and sipped our glasses of wine, she said, “the Innu made a person out of me.” And I have to agree with her and recognize the same for me too. It was not the clarity of Ken’s map by a long shot or anything similar, but rather the day-in and day-out emergence of joy and hope, mingled and embedded in the wallowing addictions and tragedies in my life and in the lives of those I thought I could help, both together, that finally made me want to show up, gummy dishes, warts, beauty and all, to this very real banquet unfolding outside and inside of me in every moment.

I still don’t do this perfectly, I meant, show up perfectly in my shadows and sunshine. I am often too proud, or too clever, I hide, and I pretend. But even as I do these distraction tactics, I recognize there is a glorious futility in my behaviour. I know without question that this world is ‘a maze of one way streets’ bringing me back to what is real and authentic and ever-present, bringing me back to the immanence of spirit in smallest flower and in the largest night sky. As my mother says sometimes, quoting someone or other, “God has never left this garden. It is we who have been away on a walk.”

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Hey everyone – I'm actually intending to add a few links to what I wrote. After some more sleep…. Anyway –

Colin wrote: … allowing answers to lead to questions and back to answers and sometimes paradox is a wonderful station to watch it all arise from.

–I like how you phrased that, Colin! This also brings to mind something someone here wrote in a post or in a blog – I think it might have been Jane quoting Rilke – about learning to love the questions our lives are … Looking forward to your upcoming blogopalooza contribution!

Bruce, thanks as always for your generous words and observant feedback. And it's funny: I had thought of my mother's Kent cigarettes as a form of “incense” also, and considered including that but at the last minute left it out.

And I too have my ways of avoiding “the messy neediness of the present …” That's part of how my present tends to get so messy in the first place!

Julian, thanks to you as well for your kudos! You asked: can you elaborate on how the contemplative practice you described with the repeated words is different than mantram?

– A mantra is usually repeated constantly (until it disappears of its own accord) – thus mantric meditation tends to be a concentrative practice. The “sacred word” in the surrender practice of centering prayer (usually a simple one or two syllable word such as “yes,” “love,” or “let go”) is not constantly repeated. It is used only when one notices that they have become caught up in the thoughts that are flowing down the stream of consciousness. It's a way to return to the “stream” itself after you've noticed that you've jumped onto one of the logs floating on the surface of the stream. Initially the word may have to be repeated quite frequently, which makes it seem like a mantra. But  eventually one needs it a lot less, or not at all.

“the heat of midnight tears will bring you closest to god” - mirabai – beautiful!

Pelle, you wrote: small steps is a biggie for me.

–lol! Me too.  I'm relishing that irony … :-)

Tim – Thanks, and a little flower to you too! Ready to see you on the blogopalooza stage soon …

Melv – “Letting the Kosmos ring through us” – Amen.

Jikishin – You always manage to say so much with so few words! I am touched by what you said; thank you.

Mascha – It's great to see you around more in the pod lately! Been missing you, girl …

Kessels – Those are some great Prince lectio lines. “sacred is the prayer that asks for nothing” pulls me right in …

Here's my thing with the song “Kiss” – I was listening to it while driving one day, and simply felt Spirit “speaking” to me through it: “You don't have to be rich to be my girl / you don't have to be cool to rule my world …” I'm God's girl just as I am. God is hot for plain old unrich uncool me! And if God just wants my extra time and my kiss – no problem, S/he's got it! It's a line that tends to pop up in my soul if I've become inconsistent in centering prayer. A sweetly funky reminder to please spend some still time with Spirit. And to kiss and savor the moment.

And oh Michael – How do you do that? You managed to see certain layers of weavings and foldings in what I had written that I wasn't consciously aware of! – through your eyes I'm seeing it anew….

Big Love and blessings to all,

Mary

And p.s. Jane – I'm just seeing your new post now as I posted this … I'm eager to soak in it! But tomorrow, after some sleep.

g'nite – oops, good morning!
Mary

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Jane and Mary,

Thank you so much for your words.  What wonderful invitations into your world, the loving realtionship and connection really flowed through your writings.   I simply love how totally different your blogs were to mine and Pelle's!  Talk about integral faces of masculine and feminine!  Mary, thanks particularly for your offering of your Lectio Divina practise; beautiful.  Jane,

Although I am not creating this plethora of reality, I am creating my experince of it. More than that, through my intentions, and actions, I can, at times, co-create this arising reality. Yet, even when I don't do anything, I am still here, watching and waiting.

Aint that the truth - perspectives; wonderful.


Ewan

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Note: This essay is primarily grounded in experience rather than theory because I am still new to such theory and related jargon, with subtle and not-so-subtle shifts in understanding occurring on a regular basis. Also, content regarding developmental psychology and Buddhism is rooted in my beginner's mind understanding; I certainly do not claim to be an expert and any misrepresentations are unintentional. With that said, I encourage informed critiques so that I can continue to probe and expand my own map of this wonderful territory. * Some AQAL notation included in the cross-post on my blog.

There is no weapon more powerful in achieving truth than acceptance of oneself.  - Swami Prajnanpad

Your most important work is to understand the barriers you have against the unfolding. - A. H. Almaas

Integral Living: A Practical Guide to Remembering Joy and Resting in Equanimity

(Or: Learning to Surf Kosmic Waves)

Mature spirituality involves a deep and radical acceptance of self and every other aspect of the world as they are, and I mean that in a profound, literal way. As a queer person living in a country (U.S.) that has, in some significant sense, contracted into religious fundamentalism and feigned moral superiority, this has been a most difficult station to arrive at. I experienced the psychic and spiritual wounds, over and over again, that come from being painted as psychologically and morally deficient; a Scarlet Letter is a challenge to wear; it is also an entry point for transcending sole identification with the ego. Today those wounds are well-healed scars, fresh new skin replacing the seeping, infected sores that filled me with fear and rage as they consumed my soul.

How did this newfound joy and equanimity come to me? Simply stated, it came through diving straight into this deep psychic pain, both inflicted by a wounded world and manifested by a damaged self. It was allowing my self to be consumed by the pain, burning it in the fire of purification, which provided the fuel for a new, more integral whole self to coalesce. The cause of such deep, fundamental pain is different for each of us; however, the underlying story is a perennial one. Freedom comes at a price: the contracted, constructed separate self must be sacrificed at the altar of Truth.

The avoidance that is so common in many modern and postmodern cultures creates paralysis instead of freedom. Rather than risking the self through experiencing the pain, people allow themselves to be lured into techniques that forestall the inevitable and perpetuate the very pain they are trying to avoid.¹ Marijuana is the number one cash crop in America; alcohol is regularly consumed in excess in a variety of forms by millions; body obsession and compulsive exercise, dieting and/or binge eating are prevalent in many achievers; incessant acquisition of shiny objects to satisfy an internal hunger is a quest engaged by materialists; spiritual materialism and escapism is rampant in New Age adherents; and television tuned to the frequency of the sleeping masses provides an alternate reality that numbs the soul.  The average citizen is desperate to maintain a sense of control or escape any and all emotional pain, and true freedom is sacrificed as a result.

Based on my personal experience and a nascent understanding of developmental psychology, a truly integral, mature life is not possible until one arrives at transegoic perspectives that take the constructed self as an object requiring deep evaluation and, sometimes, purgation of ineffective coping strategies and self-limiting habits. The challenge inherent in growth to higher levels of consciousness, however, is that acquiring the activation energy to move to the next level is not generated in the absence of psychic pain. Generally speaking, living a life of contented mediocrity, with an acceptable means towards financial security, a relatively stable close circle of friends and family, and other basic needs provided will tend to support maintenance instead of growth. Developmental psychologists have demonstrated that, on average, most people will stay at the same level of development from their mid-twenties through their mid-fifties, barring some psychologically jarring event.

Counter to the prevailing view of the general populace, psychological pain is of profound importance; it is the key to self awareness, healing and growth. Though such pain cannot be generated intentionally, embracing it fully when it descends instead of contracting and avoiding is the only way to higher levels of being and the resultant joy and equanimity that most humans desire. Whether one's trigger event is cancer or another grave illness, a mid-life crisis, the breakup of a significant relationship, or the death of close family member, the key to integration and transformation to higher levels of consciousness is surrender. Surrender the false reigns of control; surrender to all that life is; surrender to all that you are. Freedom comes through looking at the chains that bind us that seemed to be entirely externally imposed, realizing that it is often we who have continued to wrap ourselves in them, and then choosing to let them fall. This does not negate the often traumatic effects of being oppressed or attacked; it is simply recognition that, ultimately, each of us owns responsibility for how we translate and integrate those experiences. There is a choice: victim or survivor. Many people in this world have (unconsciously) chosen victim, and needless cycles of suffering persist.

Though blazing a trail to wholeness on one's own efforts is surely not impossible, professional assistance and encouragement, both through psychotherapy and spiritual guidance, is critically important for most. I cannot overemphasize this point. It was through the mirror and anchor provided by several caring professionals periodically over the last two decades that I was able to successfully navigate my way through the insane messiness of plunging into Darkness.

The trouble is often that the postmodern mind resists Darkness. Rooted in scientism and intellectualism, such a mind demotes subtle energies and emotions to the realm of the absurd. This is a tremendous loss collectively and individually. The intellect can be a powerful tool, but it can also be a hindrance to spiritual growth. Moving beyond mindsets that are limited by an over-reliance on rational thinking often requires an authentic spiritual practice. Coming back to Spirit in an integral embrace unleashes creative energies that catalyze moves to higher levels of consciousness.

Beginning an authentic practice in the age of religious pluralism can be a challenging or overwhelming task. Many people choose one or more of the forms offered by tradition simply because they offer a proven container from which to dig deeper; however, a significant number of people rebel against tradition in the face of rampant hypocrisy. Traditional forms, in themselves, are often harmless. It is how we interpret them, how we manifest them, and how we pass them on that holds the potential for both slavery and emancipation.

I am drawn to Buddhism in part due to the resonance I feel with the concept of paradox which is central to the core teachings of Zen. I love the world, and I am sometimes frustrated, angered, enraged or filled with despair when faced with it. I see the world as a mature and healthy parent sees a teenager:  I accept it as it is, I love it fully, and I do what little I can to encourage changes in mind structures that bring growth into more evolved perspectives. In other words, I love all aspects of the kosmos as they are; yet I simultaneously experience deep emotional pain when I witness scenes from events such as the Iraq war and the genocide in Darfur, the often-religiously-inspired oppression throughout the world, and the suffering of the people I encounter in my life. Additionally, there are still aspects of my self that I work on changing, but the intention is held loosely instead of with a white-knuckled death grip that attempts to resist or deny that they simply are part of who I am today. I can offer all parts of my self a radical unconditional love AND work to move to deeper levels of understanding and more healthy ways of living at the same time. Everything is perfect, and perfection can never be attained.

Another teaching in Buddhism that resonates strongly for me is the concept of impermanence. Nothing that exists in the relative world is permanent; every object is in a constant state of flow, moving on a grand scale towards eventual dissolution. While this seems to be a fundamental aspect of the kosmos, growth to more inclusive and integral mind structures is possible in tandem with the movement from birth towards death. Realization of this impermanence, or emptiness, brings freedom from sole identification with the finite self, and a more refined ability to see that all human suffering is also impermanent. When one truly grasps the concept of impermanence and is able to see the suffering inherent in human life, tremendous and profound compassion for all beings arises spontaneously.

The concept of impermanence can be difficult to grasp; examining the idea of contingency to loosen the grip of self identification may help. Accepting the self fully is assisted by knowing it as a contingent entity: it is inextricably linked to culture and nature. Borrowing a Zen phrase: Phenomena exist; box and lid fit; principles respond; arrow points meet. We exist in constant relationship to the environment we live in. In other words, we are creatures wired into a matrix of stimulus and response. To truly know self is to realize this in a transrational manner; however, working with these concepts intellectually enables one to recognize contingency. How is the expression of our lives determined by the culture we live in? The particular forms of our bodies? The time during which we live? The natural environment that surrounds us? The people we have encountered? Nothing we do exists outside of relationship. Contemplating questions such as these allow us to flesh out who we are and why, bringing us closer to knowing ourselves deeply.

In order to know the self, we must pay attention. Watch everything that passes through awareness: judgment, guilt, intellectual curiosity, hubris, vanity, anger, etc. Notice that which you try to hold on to and that which you try to avoid. Watch and learn the types of habits that have been constructed out of your past experiences so that you can begin to embrace them. Once you embrace them fully as part of your self in this moment, you can begin to question them, deconstruct them and move beyond them. Getting rid of them is not the point, however; working with them is.

Once one attains a sense of wholeness and ego strength, it becomes more possible to experience awareness beyond the conditioned self. Instead of filtering everything through the ego, phenomena can be allowed to arise without a conditioned response. Granted, “without a conditioned response” can be viewed as conditioned in some sense when it is transegoic; however, the free flowing awareness that comes from a perspective of subjective ego transcendence is a distinctly available state that one can rest in. Whether the phenomenon arising is a cloud drifting in the sky, a bee buzzing on a flower, a feeling of frustration due to a certain perspective of the state of the world, or a mind-blowing, heart-opening orgasm shared with a loved one, it arises against a backdrop of Timeless Awareness. It is the constructed self that then applies a map derived from past experiences in an attempt to interpret the objects that arise and assign meaning to the Infinite. We crave meaning because it creates a sense of security and control, but we lose the opportunity to experience raw fullness and emptiness in the process. We can learn to move beyond the stimulus-response dynamic.  If you doubt the possibility of real transcendent mind experiences or dismiss it as New Age fluff, I offer that this can, in fact, be tested in an empirical manner using your own subjective awareness. To not test it and reduce it to said fluff is naïve, at best.

To recap, the pure-and-simple Answer is: Shine the light inward. Know thyself. More specifically, know the habits, neuroses, and the dark and light sides of your finite self in body, mind, spirit, and shadow. It is only through deep self knowledge and self acceptance that the ego is able to expand to more inclusive perspectives, become transparent, and rest in states of joy and equanimity with increasing frequency and for longer periods. Each of us has a birthright to wholeness; it is up to us to claim it. Taking a transegoic stance confers the ability to reinhabit the ego with authenticity, hold it lightly and use it skillfully to bring ourselves and others to higher levels of conscious understanding. Conscious awareness with depth is the key to the resurrection of the self through a re-cognition of Self. I have tested this myself and found it to be true; as a result, I embrace Life as it is. And it is beautiful.

Finally: Live. Love. Cry. Smile. Listen. Learn. Dance. Sing. Play. Wonderful worlds exist if you learn to simply see and BE them. Ride the waves that you are and remember: sometimes a tsunami is exactly what we need to bring us into clearer light.

Now What?

So we learn to rest in joy and equanimity; now what? What's the point, other than concern for our own experience of “reality” and a profound diminishing of day-to-day suffering? Well, I won't get into speculation on “the point”; however, a call to help others often naturally arises. If we care to, how do we attempt to effect change in the world to encourage higher waves or levels of consciousness with the hope of ending some of the needless suffering? Most importantly: live as a shining light of example. Embrace the world as it is, meet people where they are at with respect, and let your integral perspectives ripple outwards using skillful means to engage people.² Additionally, if you feel called to, join or start organizations that are working at the “leading edge” with integral visions so that the power of higher waves is amplified (go Zaadz!). Get involved in politics by voting and writing letters to your state representatives and media editors to provide balance to less-evolved perspectives in public opinion. Right now, the loudest voices are those at 1^st tier cognition because they are often driven by psychological projections that push them into the public sphere in an attempt to regain a sense of control (and there are more of us at those levels than 2^nd tier); balance those 1^st tier perspectives with more inclusive integral voices. Beyond that (though I would love other suggestions), simply accepting the world as it is does wonders for peace of Mind; this, too, has a ripple effect.

Notes:

¹ Obviously, some of these practices can be incorporated into an integral life in ways that are healthy or non-destructive; however, the use of them as a means for avoidance is more common than not.

² Realize that blaming and ridiculing are rarely effective tools when making such attempts; though, instances may arise that call for showing respect to an individual's higher self through ridiculing his or her current belief system. Someone who is averse to open dialog and rigid in ideology might invite a thorough ego pounding simply to illustrate that some beliefs are profoundly delusional, whether he or she is able to hear that in the moment or not. Using this approach as a last resort is highly recommended, and it is best to not expect fruits of such efforts.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

rockin' piece colin - i really found it to be my favorite so far.

a heartfelt call to inner work while standing on your own foundation of self-disclosure.

your disclaimers cannot obscure the innnate grasp of the material you are presenting.


for what it is worth (and i have no beef with you here - you just stimulated a desire to share.):

regarding the whole victim/survivor piece - i agree but think that this is an extraordinarily complex subject that is more often than not oversimplified (especially in spiritual circles) in a way that does traumatized people a grave dis-service.

sometimes the implication is that it is through some sheer force of will, the power of intention etc that one “gets over” trauma and that therefore someone less able to get over it gets subtly blamed for perpetuating their victimhood.

there is much to sayabout this regarding freud's notion of repetition compulsion, ACA/recovery movement/imago therapy understandings of who (and what situations) we are attracted to based on out unresolved material - and a little concept of mine that i use in my work with people called “the trauma/resource ratio…”

one of the things i say to people who are really hard on themselves - often because they have bought into the poular spiritual idea that they are responsible for “manifesting” their continued struggles - is that the psyche is not stupid.

sure your UNCONSCIOUS is drawing you into situations and toward people that will bring up your unresolved stuff - in that way you are “creating it” but it is not your ego/intentional self who is doing it - and no amount of thinking good thoughts, setting new intentions or trying to enact some example of spiritual good character and will power will EVER affect your unconscious and the unresolved material it is trying to bring to the light of day.

now, do we stop repeating the cycle when we are more resolved in the energy of the trauma? yes! but as you SO rightly point out it is through deeply experiencing the split-off psychic pain that we come to this wholeness and new consciousness.

briefly - as you may know, freud recognized that people tend to compulsively repeat experiences that still hold intense unresolved energy for them - making the unresolved issue conscious and working on it tended to reduce and eventually eliminate the self-sabotaging pattern.

my idea that i think helps ease the self-(and other) judgement: we all have a specific ratio of trauma to resource. by resource i mean anything that supports you, connects you, makes you feel safe, loved, alive, accepted etc….. very often people who have a lot of trauma and very little resource have the hardest time recovering/healing/bouncing back - they need a lot of work building resources, internalizing self-worth and developing ego strength - for them being told they are “playing the victim” or “manifesting their own suffering” or “self-sabotaging” just makes them feel more ashamed and shuts down their fragile grasp on resource - in addition to building resource and ego-strength they also need really patient and compassionate mirroring around the FACT that they were victimized and it wasn't their fault - enough of those two things and the trauma begins to resolve as do the repetitive compulsions/self-sabotage patterns….and the internalized self-worth/ego strength/connection to resource keeps increasing so that triggers that are reminiscent of the trauma are better tolerated.

on the other hand -  some people have a lot of resource and would bounce back from the same trauma much more quickly - this does NOT mean that they are more spiritual, it does mean that they can enact more ego -strength and intention - the danger of course is that they may be just splitting off the traumatized feelings and barreling through (because our defenses also serve as a resource - until they don't any more) - so that is something i look out for - usually it will show as having a very hard time admitting vulnerabilty and/or feeling empathy for the suffering of others…..

anyway enjoyed your personal and potent piece and i salute your courage.
~julian

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Colin, excellent.  I thoroughly enjoyed this piece.  It really would have been a perfect contribution to the “Integrative Spirituality: Grounded Contemporary Perspectives” symposium, since it is all of the above – integrative, profoundly spiritual, grounded, and contemporary.  Thank you.

I appreciate how you emphasize sorrow and suffering, not just as afflictions, but as sacred gates – as catalyzers of radical transformation.  They have been for me; my journey on this path started after several traumas erupted into my life.  I think also of the transformations of both Krishnamurti and Tolle:  K's awakening followed the devastating sorrow he felt at the death of his brother; Tolle's awakening dawned in the depths of his depression.

Being broken can become the gift of being broken open.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Balder said: I appreciate how you emphasize sorrow and suffering, not just as afflictions, but as sacred gates - as catalyzers of radical transformation.

Sacred gates! Yes! I'm not familiar with the histories of Krishnamurti and Tolle, so thanks for bringing in those examples, as well as your own. Diving into deep pain and coming into Light has been experienced by many. It's one of life's paradoxes: Wanna move beyond pain? Well, then jump right into it!

Also, I appreciate your acknowledgment. This piece came together partly through reading the first few contributions to the symposium.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Julian, thank you for your thoughts and praise.

Your “trauma/resource ratio” is quite useful; it puts a concrete face to the delicate balance between building ego strength and mirroring back to someone that the ego is the source of many of our (ongoing) troubles. Certainly, if someone has an insecure ego, building a solid resource base is primary. That's what I was saying with the strong recommendation to use therapy as a tool, but the further probing that you offered really drives that point home.

I had some hesistancy about my focus on personal responsibility because I certainly did not want to give the impression that trauma imposed on a person from external sources is in any way the fault of the victim. Clearly, that is a defeating attitude. As you seem to be reflecting in your comments, though, I think I was relatively successful at walking that tightrope. I am not responsible for trauma; however, if I am still reliving the nightmare 20 years later, there is some complicity in creating the world I inhabit.

Thanks again.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Colin,

I love that piece! It actually brought me into the realms of my own psyche while reading. That all of it is experiential is obvious, that's why it touched me in a deep way. You actually showed me a new side of yourself, a new depth. BTW I love the balance between psychotherapy and Buddhism, you show how they walk hand in hand from a human perspective.

Julian, I actually like your comments very much :) and I see them as complementary to Colin's. The balance between trauma and resource is indeed important, and any therapist worth his/her name will be aware of both and work with both as needed in the moment.

This Blogopalooza is turning out to be amazing, and we still have Joe and Tim!


pelle 

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Pelle,

It touches me that you were deeply touched! And I am happy that I was able to offer a window into my personal experience in a deeper way that also transcends (and includes!) my story. This whole process of engaging with this vibrant community has brought much to my life. Thanks again for inviting me to participate!

I'm totally looking forward to the offerings by Joe and Tim, too!

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

thanks pelle - yea i thought it might flesh out and complement something he just touched on within a much broader post.

any thoughts colin?

oh and btw congratulations on your cool week of posts. nice job everyone!

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Julian,

Did you miss my comment to you a few posts above? Or am I missing a new question?

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

oops - yea missed it but saw it now! :O)

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Colin, I have reall appreciated your piece too. I often describe my life as a connect-the-dots, paint-by-number. Each node in the connectivity has as often as not been a significant trauma, one that I would never choose, even give the resultant boon. At the same time, the practice staying present in the midst of trauma, of learning to turn to the pain, to refuse to avoid the messiness, of learning to accept the helplessness, of learning to name what has happened without shaming or blaming self or others….all of this practice brings us to a place of being able to “love what is”; we find ourselves in the space inbetween reactions. When I write, ‘the fabric of my life is the cloth with which it is my responsibility to polish the lens of my own perception’, this is exactly what I mean.

I appreciate your discussion, Julian, regarding the trauma to resource ratio. One of the greatest challenges in the work that I have been involved with in our aboriginal community has been the balance of how to support the expansion of the ‘resource’ aspect of the ratio, while not inadvertently feeding the fires that create more trauma. This is often a challenge with colonized people, who once freed of the immediate oppression by the ‘green’ sentiments of governments, have, underneath the fury of having been oppressed, a tribal community heart and the corresponding ‘red’ politics that go along with this. This leads often and tragically to a mismanagement and corruption of ‘public’ funds, and a corresponding, learned helplessness and further victimization, and indeed, and escalation of the cycles of violence. All of this is complicated by the ‘you can’t tell me what to do’. I am reminded of a letter I wrote to the Canadian Family Physician a few years ago which demonstrates this very issue:

http://www.cfpc.ca/cfp/2002/Apr/vol48-apr-letters-2.asp

In my own life, I realize that the best I can do is to live my own life with my highest integrity and honesty, including an acceptance and rigorous accounting of my own shortcomings as well as my strengths. All healing involves turning towards the pain, opening to the deepest exploration of resistance, and casting off what no longer serves me. How healing occurs beyond my own life is not up to me. Yet, although I am not in control of this healing, I am none-the-less important. We all are. Rather than being determined by ‘cause and effect’, ie) by the therapist/client relationship, healing as often as not becomes an effect of resonance, of possibilities that emerge by having walked the talk, of having survived the fire and then showing up to be present with people regardless of their station. In short, healing is “being the change you want” and being patient with the rest.

Well, done Colin, and thank you for you beautiful clarity.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Jane,

Thank you, too, for taking the time to respond.

Jane said: the practice staying present in the midst of trauma, of learning to turn to the pain, to refuse to avoid the messiness, of learning to accept the helplessness, of learning to name what has happened without shaming or blaming self or others….all of this practice brings us to a place of being able to “love what is”; we find ourselves in the space inbetween reactions.

“Learning to name what happened without shaming or blaming self or others”: Excellent! Of course (as you know), shaming and blaming when directed at the victimizer can be appropriate, too. BUT internalized shame and blame on the part of the victim often magnifies the trauma exponentially. That's when I think professional assistance is key; or at least, the kind ear and wise words of an experienced friend. And I love your “fabric of my life” statement!

healing is “being the change you want” and being patient with the rest
Beautifully said and oh-so-important!

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

sounds like important work jane!

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Hi Colin,

Congratulations on your excellent essay! I have a few questions around this paragraph:

The trouble is often that the postmodern mind resists Darkness. Rooted in scientism and intellectualism, such a mind demotes subtle energies and emotions to the realm of the absurd. This is a tremendous loss collectively and individually. The intellect can be a powerful tool, but it can also be a hindrance to spiritual growth. Moving beyond mindsets that are limited by an over-reliance on rational thinking often requires an authentic spiritual practice. Coming back to Spirit in an integral embrace unleashes creative energies that catalyze moves to higher levels of consciousness.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

MrTeacup,

Thanks for the congrats! As I've really found much that you write resonates with the station(s) I'm at, I appreciate the recognition.

The way I read this paragraph, it seems to say that the intellect or mind generally represses the emotions, and by moving beyond it, we come back to Spirit. Would you say then, that emotions and subtle energies are the gateway to Spirit, which is then blocked by the intellect? I have heard people explain Body-Mind-Spirit as Physical-Intellectual-Emotional so I'm wondering if that's what you mean here. Or does it not really matter and I'm over-thinking it ? :)

I actually added the paragraph you referenced the day before I posted it; most of the essay came effortlessly, including that paragraph, and since that one was added post hoc, I didn't evaluate each word. So, perhaps over-thinking qualifies here, but I think it's a important nuance or distinction. I'm looking solely at your post right now, not Michael's further down, and to answer your question, I do think that the intellect can actually erect a blockade against conscious expression of emotions and subtle energies. So, your “repress” seems tantamount to my “demote” and I suppose the “realm of the absurd” in my example is the unconscious. It can also restrain, to bring in Michael's observation. Whether the emotional and spiritual energies are blocked or restrained, the key is bringing them into partnership with the intellect. Again, it's all about balance and incorporating all energies that we have access to.

I appreciate, too, the feedback on pedantry in my essay, or lack thereof. I found much to chew on in Michael's response, so I'm heading towards that now…

Regarding this, though: How can I learn anything if I don't allow for the possibility that you might have superior knowledge or understanding? If only more people would move to this position, perhaps we'd be better equipped to more to higher levels of consciousness collectively! As it stands now, so many people are in the frame of: “what the fuck do you know?!” Skepticism abounds. I appreciate your humility, and I share it!

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Thanks Colin; I really enjoyed that as well, particularly the part about not avoiding suffering.

Julian, thanks as well. That's really helpful.

Also thanks to Bruce (that's a lot of thanks!)–we can add Ken and Treya to that list, Andrew Cohen, and I'm sure a number of others. Rumi's one more, over the dissapearance of Shams.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Thanks, David!

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Hey all,

Mascha and I communicated via PM, and I'd love to hear feedback on this issue:

I said: “  …my Blogopalooza post - does it come off as overly pedantic? That's my only concern. Thanks for the props, though.”

Mascha said: Truth? I admit that toward the end I thought, hmm, there are a lot of instructions here. So you can really trust your own intuition, babe :-)   I struggle with exactly that: How to talk to people when you know things (and you do, Colin!) without teaching, without talking down to them, however subtle and camouflaged that internal positioning may be. The greatest impact has always been made by wise beings who either speak to me as absolute peers, or those who can humbly “kneel down”, so to speak, and offer their input in the way of total FELT support - from below, like in that schmaltzy song: You are the Wind Beneath my Wings.

I felt an air of pedantry when I was reading my essay again recently, but didn't have the time to reword it. I find it tricky: how do you offer your experience as words of learned wisdom intended to potentially help another without sounding like you think you've got all the answers?

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Mary

I just read your post and it has made me weep.  Your tenderness opened memories in me that had been closed in the rush of existence. I felt my body relax and I felt it move into prayer as I read.

Seeing your beautiful mother in the steaming tub, marking her bible, finding her solace and her inspiration. And feeling you Mary as a child with such great tenderness and nurture in this world.

A  memory opened like a flower that was waiting to. My grandmother sitting in the dusty sunlight in India, a long grey plait down her stooping back eating cashew nuts. How she needed this, small steps, the kindness in them, the permission to be a child again. Yet looking after five daughters in India on her own was her lot. And she did that so well so incredibly well. She used to read the bible lectio divinia..I now can see…and mark it and it gave her strength to deal with the caos of India where a woman alone was an easy mark. Everyone relied on her and took from her. But what she needed was love of the kind that your eyes see. What she needed was to rest in arms like yours.

And when you talked about giving socks and water and the expressions of gladness you received from the homeless in America, I remembered too the shining eyes of an old man who I gave some coins to in delhi on my way to a restaurant where the “elite” meet and eat and talk about the affairs of the world. And that's all I remember, that man's eyes looking into mine.

Mary, seeing through your eyes, I see what is mostly ignored and suppressed in this world. And I am so grateful for your stubborness and perseverance to see the world this way.

Love Gitanjali

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Such a lovely response, Gitanjali – thank you – and oh, the secrets our mothers and grandmothers unwittingly reveal as we watch them walking through their pain … !

Tenderly,

Mary

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Dear Colin,

I
 too, would ease up on the “concerned-about-pedantry” thing.  After all, it is and has been a long-acceptable and well-used mode of expression or they wouldn't have a name for it.  Its kind of fun to be pedantic, esp. if you slip a little self-deprecating joke in every once in a while (“Is this shit pedantic, or what?”)  or insult your audience's intelligence (in a compassionate way of course) to make sure they keep paying attention.

We are limited to only a few modes of expression when “explaining” the way the “world” seems to us, our “personal perspectives on the emerging Integral Worldspace.”  Pelle provided lots of license to be poetic, metaphorical and otherwise, but, for people like you and I, for instance,  us “explainers” of personal experience (ours and/or others) the temptation to get downright “coherent” about our “perspective” is damned hard to resist.  Devotion to coherence is bound to lead to pedantry.

Frankly, I really applaud your willingness to describe your “perspective” on the theoretically dependent Integral world view, from the bedrock of your own deeply examined story.  To us, coherence in these matters requires an honest, literal approach - more traction towards pedantry.  I wonder if the babes just don't have us beat here.  Coherence is just as important to them, though it seems that they let it take care of itself while trusting that a showing of “this-is-what-life-is-like-for-me-as-I-keep-the-Integral-in-view” will effortlessly reveal the underlying coherence with nary a pedantic thought in sight.

Guys, it seems, have a somewhat harder time with relying primarily on personal story to represent true perspective.  I, for instance, am inclined to pretend that I have incorporated more than I actually have.  Pedantry helps to foist such bullshit off on my occasionally witless audience.  (Everybody still paying attention?)  Of course, its not like Mary and Jane are just any two women writers.  These women kick ass when it comes to putting the Word down - right up there with, and beyond on increasing occasion, the big boys.  Yet, I-I wide, there seems to be a “less-than” associated with such “moving” text. 

This leads me to one of my favorite subjects that you outlined in your post and interestingly caught the attention of none other than Mr. Teacup himself:  (underline emphasis mine in both cases)

Colin:  ”The trouble is often that the postmodern mind resists Darkness. Rooted in scientism and intellectualism, such a mind demotes subtle energies and emotions to the realm of the absurd. This is a tremendous loss collectively and individually. The intellect can be a powerful tool, but it can also be a hindrance to spiritual growth. Moving beyond mindsets that are limited by an over-reliance on rational thinking often requires an authentic spiritual practice. Coming back to Spirit in an integral embrace unleashes creative energies that catalyze moves to higher levels of consciousness.”

Teacup:  ”The way I read this paragraph, it seems to say that the intellect or mind generally represses the emotions, and by moving beyond it, we come back to Spirit. Would you say then, that emotions and subtle energies are the gateway to Spirit, which is then blocked by the intellect? I have heard people explain Body-Mind-Spirit as Physical-Intellectual-Emotional so I'm wondering if that's what you mean here. Or does it not really matter and I'm over-thinking it ? :”)

Colin, I agree with your use of the word “demotes” in this context only if there is an actual “mind” involved.  Often, people seem unwilling to even consider such a thing as their own darkness.  In that case of the lack of “mind-use” so to speak, I would favor Teacup's use of “represses.”

Under these conditions of demotion and repression, I agree that,  “This is a tremendous loss collectively and individually.” with “tremendous” being an understatement.

Teacup:  ”Would you say then, that emotions and subtle energies are the gateway to Spirit, which is then blocked by the intellect?”

Answering for myself here:  not “blocked” so much as “hindered,” or “constricted,” or “restrained.”  For instance, when I read Mary, or Jane, or Mascha, or Liz, or Gitajali or any one of several other women and a few guys too, I get a clear sense of what is being said; I get the assurance that honesty and curiosity have been used; that priorities have been accounted for, and that though reason has been given place and consideration, it is more in the court of emotional maturity where the prosecution has been heard. Pedantically speaking, I say that true emotional maturity is a trans-rational state that has not obviated reason, but rather “incorporated” it.  Women, I further contend, are currently better at this than we men.

I contend that this issue of the search for dark spirit/shadow is elemental to the process of expansion.  Where do we put our attention:  towards sharpening our reasoning skills and requiring all “dark” experience/emotion to be rendered “reasonable” before we can utilize the new “conclusions” to further seek spirit?  I don't think so and not because I think that “dark” experience is too dangerous, its that I don't believe that “reason” is up to the task of “explaining” emotion.  Oh, we make fabulous attempts at it, and, God knows, people get rich and poor in the explaining-emotion business, but does it get us closer to the spirit fountain of eternal youth?  Me thinks not.

Me thinks standing in the deeply examined story and professing from it, pedantry, tears and all - arm-waving when we have to cover the occasional rational gap - not ignoring them mind you, but acknowledging the mystery and certain that our priorities are well integrated, we can come to trust ourselves around these great questions and approach the fountain of spirit as children, drawn to the stuttering drop-like radiance of it while willing to navigate the many confounding obstacles in our way.

Yer pal,

Michael

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Teacup:  ”Would you say then, that emotions and subtle energies are the gateway to Spirit, which is then blocked by the intellect?”

Answering for myself here:  not “blocked” so much as “hindered,” or “constricted,” or “restrained.”

OK, let's say restrained. But its fair to say that emotions are the gateway to Spirit? So the intellect moves us away from Spirit, while emotions move us toward it?

For instance, when I read Mary, or Jane, or Mascha, or Liz, or Gitajali or any one of several other women and a few guys too, I get a clear sense of what is being said; I get the assurance that honesty and curiosity have been used; that priorities have been accounted for, and that though reason has been given place and consideration, it is more in the court of emotional maturity where the prosecution has been heard.

Does this mean when men speak, in an intellectual way, that you don't get a sense of clarity, honesty, curiosity, well-placed priorities, proper role for reason, and expression of the emotional/Spiritual? That instead, you feel opaqueness, dishonesty, indifference, misplaced priorities and emotional repression?

Pedantically speaking, I say that true emotional maturity is a trans-rational state that has not obviated reason, but rather “incorporated” it.  Women, I further contend, are currently better at this than we men.

So would you say that trans-rationality is the same as, or essentially emotional maturity. Are women (and men who adopt feminine modes of communication) more integral, more transrational, or more Spiritual than men and male modes?

I look forward to hearing more on this topic.

~MrTeacup (none other than :)

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Mr. Teacup,

I find this subject of the balancing of reason and, (here I usually struggle for the counter-weight) say, intuition(?) to be THE most intriguing and challenging issue that I face as an Integral “seeker.”

My rational capacity is founded on strong, innate, pattern recognition and framing skills.  I was raised in a left-liberal, educated, progressive Catholic environment - in some ways an ideal situation for the rise of a young scientist/philosopher/poet.  Though blessed by family and station, trouble rose early with my altar boy exposure to the overwhelming hypocrisy of the Church Triumphant.  Despite my huge doubts about the edifice of the Church and its real agenda, I learned the Jesuit way of reasoning and went about the practice of justifying doctrine against the unassailable backdrop of the virtues and beatitudes.  This greatly pleased all the authority figures in my life and bought me a certain “hands-off-the-young-cardinal-in-the-making” peaceful space.  Inside, beset by doubts and conflicting, unholy desires, I lived the life of a total profligate, one incautious utterance from excommunication.  Reason for me became a defensive structure that protected the dark secrets of my inner life from exposure.

Alongside of this intellectual, pseudo-spiritual bath in conventional Christianity, from an early age, I was powerfully drawn to the “woods.”  Indeed, I spent most of my free time in the almost limitless forest directly across the street from my home.  There, I was both thrilled and safe.  I do not remember a single “psychic” experience, not one unfathomable “happening” in the countless hours and years I spent exploring this huge preserve alone and with a variety of friends.  Always though, and every time I went to the forest, it seemed freshly beautiful and different each day.  Nothing in my “urban” life of scholastics, church, family, sports, and the concrete jungle of the city could compare to the inexhaustible effulgence of the sunlit forest.

So, for me, from the beginning, a strong dichotomy grew:  reason in the service of protecting my secret autonymy vs. agape' love of the “natural (as in untouched by man) kingdom.”  As I came to consider the elements of what was then known as metaphysics, the notion of “spirit in matter” came to stand out.  Though confounded by the “how” of it, it somehow did not seem “unreasonable to me” - my first true encounter with the power and persistence of intuition.  It was as if I could “see” the spirit in matter in the forest where I could not “see” it in my family, or the Church, or the other “works of man.”  I came to conclude that whatever “man” touched became opaque by some terrible force and the spirit within was extinguished. 

This realization was embedded within me by the age of ten.  It was thirty years later before I came to suspect that the ego was the principal opacifier.  Around the same time, it became apparent, as I floundered in the beginnings of a searching and honest inquiry into my “story,” that my ego also covertly ruled the then-overwhelming mind dominance of my rational “faculties.”  Intuition had become a liability. Thus, bound by shadow and addicted to the use of “reason” to avoid it, I had no choice - or so it seemed to me.

Certain events conspired to shatter the stasis and I left the pieces alone for just long enough (based on the advice of Chogyam Trungpa) that I reassembled in a way that returned a deeper honor to intuition and the blessings of contemplating emotion.  For this “conversion” to take place, I had to adopt not an “irrational” state of mind, but an “a-rational” state - a process of accessing the long-denied constellation of repressed emotion that simply asked reason to step aside.  To this day, I do not think I could have done this by myself.  It took another's help.  It worked.  In a profoundly specific and categorical way, I was relieved of a crushing burden of guilt, shame and powerlessness.  Healing grief arose.  Oddly, and significantly for me, Reason was not offended.  In your own words Teacup, “nothing happened.”

Today, I know that my capacity for Reason, though based in Jesuit orthodoxy, is shot through with my own operating conclusions, and deeply compromised by whatever shadow-based reactions that I have not yet uncovered and resolved.  I have a long and steady history of changing my operating conclusions and a more recent history of uncovering shadow and dismantling its reason-polluting effects.  My ego, too, under closer and closer examination, can be seen to have its own influence on my already far-from-pure rational capacity.

Reason seems to work best for me when I employ it as a tool, consciously, sans ego, with no other agenda except to examine experience for whatever scientific merit might be revealed.

As to your questions:

Teacup:  ”OK, let's say restrained. But its fair to say that emotions are the gateway to Spirit? So the intellect moves us away from Spirit, while emotions move us toward it?”

In so far as the “intellect” is ruled by reason, then yes, that state seems to restrain flow of the mind towards spirit.  My sense of it is that emotions, per se, are “felt” in the body such feeling coalescing in the heart center.  Consciously separating the faculty of Reason (and the attendant “helmsman” Ego) from the mind, one may literally move the mind to the heart and through the flux of “gateway” emotions towards spirit free of the cautionary, “wait-a-minute,” “what-about-this?” distraction of ego-directed reason.

(referring to women's capacity to “show” perspective more “honestly” …)
Teacup:  ”Does this mean when men speak, in an intellectual way, that you don't get a sense of clarity, honesty, curiosity, well-placed priorities, proper role for reason, and expression of the emotional/Spiritual? That instead, you feel opaqueness, dishonesty, indifference, misplaced priorities and emotional repression?”

Its not that I don't get a sense of “clarity” et al, or that I feel oppressed by systematic male misrepresentation, its that I, for one, “hear” it better when the attention is on a “showing” based on life-reflection, rather than a “telling” based on opinion, conclusion, and supportive documentation.

(referring to the state of emotional maturity… )
Teacup:  ”So would you say that trans-rationality is the same as, or essentially emotional maturity. Are women (and men who adopt feminine modes of communication) more integral, more transrational, or more Spiritual than men and male modes?”

Simply, “Yes,” and “Yes” to both questions providing the definition of Emotional Maturity for both men and women includes the highly evolved capacity to speak and inter-relate from both sides of the gender equation as well as an utterly gender-neutral perspective.  True, trans-rational emotional maturity is a highly evolved state.  I by no means am saying that women collectively are “there” but I do see that they are a bit ahead of us men on the path and I have learned for myself that my prior preoccupation with having everything be “reasonable” is not helping me keep pace.

Yer pal,

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Michael,

Thanks for sharing your story. On the proper role of reason vs. emotion, I am greatly influenced by a book called Descartes' Error, in which the author makes the case that emotions are a key part of rational decision making. In fact, rational decision making is severely impaired in individuals who lose access to their emotions through brain injuries.

For me, the ability to reason implies the healthy integration of one's emotions. So I guess this is where I disagree with you and Colin. I just don't believe that reason and emotion are in conflict, I don't believe we ever have to choose one at the expense of the other. In Western culture, we sometimes find a dissociative view of emotion, and this is called rational, but neuroscience confirms what many people have long felt, that this is just pathological. Restoring and integrating emotion is not transrational, just healthy rational.

This is probably controversial with the people who have told me I need to be less rational in order to make room for emotions. I just don't see a conflict between the two. Reading your story only confirms this to me.

Occasionally, people think of the intellect and the ego as being the same, possibly because some people are quite proud of their intelligence and we call those people egotistical. The “opposite” of reason is emotion, and the opposite of ego is spirit, so therefore emotions are spiritual. But in speaking of the death of the ego, or losing your ego, it doesn't mean the Western Freudian ego, it means your entire relative sense of self; the feeling that there is a “me” in here that is distinct from things out there.

In Buddhism, the ego is divided into five main categories or aggregates: material form, feeling (including emotions), perception, mental formations (including reason), and pure consciousness, and when we talk about transcending the ego, we don't mean just one of them, we mean all of them. Identifying with the emotions is just as “ego-tistical” in this sense as identifying with the intellect. We can use any one of these aggregates to see into our deepest nature, depending on what works for you, but I don't think we can say that one is closer to Spirit or nonduality than another one.

So the intention is to quiet the body, quiet the emotions and quiet the mind to realize what underlies them all. This 1st person approach is different from a 2nd person or devotional practice, which aims to arouse emotion and direct it to Spirit in a relational embrace, so of course emotional energy is much more important. For people who do this practice, pathological rationality that represses emotion could be problem, but because the practice is about radically loving and accepting the entire phenomenal world, it means loving  pathological, repressive, hyper-agentic maleness, and in some ways, it means especially loving unconditionally those things that are hard for us to love. I think that if there's some aspect of the world that you absolutely refuse to love in that way, then there's a good chance there's an opportunity for shadow work there.

Here's a video of Ken Wilber talking about these two different, but equivalent modalities. Because this is so well-known in Integral circles, my assumption is that people engaged in male or female types of communication are not implicitly repressing the other mode. I do think that in the broader spiritual community, there's a tendency to repress masculinity, a radical feminization of spirituality that seeks to pathologize masculinity per se, instead of recognizing that there are healthy and unhealthy versions of masculine and also of feminine. My assumption is that male and female modes are mutually complimentary, not mutually antagonistic, and I generally find that women prefer that I stay in the masculine mode, because with most people, there's just so much antagonism toward the other gender. Its so rare to find two people who can embody male and embody female and engage in that dance where each is allowed to be as they are, instead of forcing everything down to a non-gendered flatland.

On a final note, I know that I might be guilty of subjecting people to a hyper-analytic gaze where I evaluate statements against the AQAL model, and this might be taken as pedantic and insulting, but in the end, my goal is not to undermine your point of view, but to respect it by finding a home for it where all its gifts can shine along with all the other valid perspectives. Returning again to my original point of the fundamental unity of reason and emotion, I think the AQAL/Integral model, although perhaps more analytical than emotional, actually supports and encourages a wider embrace of compassion for more people with more perspectives, including all those horrible scientists, mathematicians and snobby intellectuals.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

MrTeacup,

Some responses to your comments:

MrTeacup wrote: For me, the ability to reason implies the healthy integration of one's emotions. So I guess this is where I disagree with you and Colin. I just don't believe that reason and emotion are in conflict, I don't believe we ever have to choose one at the expense of the other. In Western culture, we sometimes find a dissociative view of emotion, and this is called rational, but neuroscience confirms what many people have long felt, that this is just pathological. Restoring and integrating emotion is not transrational, just healthy rational.

Hmm. Not sure how this is a disagreement with what I've been saying. I don't believe reason and emotion are in conflict in someone who has a healthy embrace of them both. I was suggesting that a hyper-rational intellect may demote or repress emotional expression and that repression, because it's not embracing all aspects of the self, can have the effect of blocking awareness of spirit. I speak of this because I experienced it myself. Denying some more negatively-viewed emotions in the past cut off huge streams of energy. Relying on my intellect alone to make sense of the world trapped me in the confines of flatland. I never meant to state, explicitly (which I don't think I did) or implicitly, that either emotions or intellect should be transcended and discarded. Both are embraced and celebrated in healthy transcendence; they are used as tools, not taken as the epitome of development when expressed in a healthy way.

MrTeacup wrote: In Buddhism, the ego is divided into five main categories or aggregates: material form, feeling (including emotions), perception, mental formations (including reason), and pure consciousness, and when we talk about transcending the ego, we don't mean just one of them, we mean all of them.

So, Buddhism calls the self of western psychology the ego? And the final step (it seems) is to transcend pure consciousness? I guess that representation doesn't really jive for me. I can take what I call my ego as an object, but I can't take my consciousness as an object. Or perhaps I can't yet.

MrTeacup wrote: We can use any one of these aggregates to see into our deepest nature, depending on what works for you, but I don't think we can say that one is closer to Spirit or nonduality than another one.

I agree that none of these aggregates is closer to spirit since everything is an expression of spirit; however, I don't think I can use any of those aggregates to see into my deepest nature. I use my consciousness to explore (or see) my material form, feelings, perceptions and mental formations.

MrTeacup wrote: Because this is so well-known in Integral circles,my assumption is that people engaged in male or female types of communication are not implicitly repressing the other mode.

I don't think that is an assumption that should be made. Intellectual understanding of types does not necessarily translate to ability to use both “modes” or even awareness that one has, over time, set up a self system that blocks or inhibits expression of one of the modes.

MrTeacup wrote: On a final note, I know that I might be guilty of subjecting people to a hyper-analytic gaze where I evaluate statements against the AQAL model, and this might be taken as pedantic and insulting, but in the end, my goal is not to undermine your point of view, but to respect it by finding a home for it where all its gifts can shine along with all the other valid perspectives.
 
I've never felt this vibe from you, just to hold up the mirror from my angle. I've always appreciated your evaluations; an underlying respect for the reader has always been implicit from my reading. This type of investigation is key to an integral embrace. And I'm loving it, BTW.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Colin,

Not sure how this is a disagreement with what I've been saying. I don't believe reason and emotion are in conflict in someone who has a healthy embrace of them both.

Perhaps we do agree then. I know that some believe that reason and emotion are mutually exclusive, that being more rational implies having less access to emotions. This belief is extremely common, especially among spiritual seekers who have been greatly influenced by the Beat generation and Romanticism in literature generally, and can be clearly seen in the Walt Whitman's When I Heard the Learn'd Astronomer. But in the words of lesbian novelist Jeanette Winterson, there is no fight between exactness and rapture, in my opinion.

The point that I'd like to make is that even though there are situations where reason can repress emotions, I don't think that its inherent to reason to do this, only when its pathological. Rationality that represses emotions is not even good rationality, because emotions are basic facts of existence. Its no more rational to ignore them than to ignore other important facts of life.

Intellectual understanding of types does not necessarily translate to ability to use both “modes” or even awareness that one has, over time, set up a self system that blocks or inhibits expression of one of the modes.

I disagree with the first part of this. Using the intellect implies the ability to be emotional, since it forms the basis of reasoning. One may turn around and claim the opposite, but this leads to both emotional repression and irrationality.

But should the assumption then be that people are implicitly oppressing emotions/reason unless proven otherwise to our satisfaction? I still prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume a healthy integration; certainly the aspiration to be so. I do think its quite common to deny rationality – hopefully not so much in integral circles – in the hopes that this leads to Spirit. As I have pointed out elsewhere, its actually quite possible to get in touch with Spirit, and yet still repress one's emotions or rationality or other aspects of the relative ego – a nondual jerk is still a jerk.

For clarity, I don't think that people's embrace of psychic phenomena is due to repression of rationality. But I have seen one group of people make rational arguments to support them, and other people make rational arguments against them. And the last group are the only ones who are told they are being too rational and repressing emotions. This seems like a double standard.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

MrTeacup,

I hold no outright disagreements here; it's all nuance at this point and more about verbiage than meaning, it seems.

There are many people who elevate rationality as the epitome of human consciousness, and there are many who do the same to emotions or spiritual expressions, etc. To elevate any of those is to miss the boat. Integral, baby, integral.

The point that I'd like to make is that even though there are situations where reason can repress emotions, I don't think that its inherent to reason to do this, only when its pathological.  (emphasis mine)

Yes, that was the entire point I was trying to make in the relevant section of my original post. Pathology abounds, though, my brother; the degree of pathology varies, of course, with most people at a functional ego level. I don't think assuming that people have totally healthy integration is necessarily helpful. When I assume that I or any other person has some level of pathology, it is not derogatory in my mind. It gives them the benefit of the doubt that they are human and that most of us have some level of pathology. This is a f-ing tough game to play! But then I suppose it's relevant to define pathology. I definitely define it differently than modern western psychologists who tend to focus on ability to integrate into society. If society is pathological, though, then what? So, I define pathology as anything less than a radical embrace of reality as it is, with whatever thoughts, emotions, sensations, etc that arise being treated as having equal absolute value. Thoughts may not have equal relative value, but emotions, sensations cannot be subjected to the lens of judgment; they just are. Many, many people use the judgment lens to repress emotions. Not very many people, in my experience, have developed to this all-embracing level of understanding. Even fewer have actually been able to put that into real-life practice in each moment.

Using the intellect implies the ability to be emotional, since it forms the basis of reasoning.
About this: emotionality forms the basis of reason? I don't think I'm with you on that one, but maybe we're against another verbiage wall here. There have been examples of people with very little emotional awareness with high intellectual capabilities: serial killers (can't come up with a name right now). They were able to reason their way into getting (mostly) women to come with them to their unfortunate demise.

Lastly, I agree with your double standard in terms of psi and rationality/emotionality.

Still loving this…

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Colin,

Excellent points about the pathology of society. I agree that society is often a poor standard to measure pathology by, as you probably know all too well. Though I would also suggest a less expansive view of pathology: given that a level contains a particular viewpoint or apprehension of reality, does an individual adequately include lower levels without repression or regression? And in doing so, puts him or herself on track to ascend to broader, more inclusive viewpoints.

About this: emotionality forms the basis of reason? I don't think I'm with you on that one, but maybe we're against another verbiage wall here. There have been examples of people with very little emotional awareness with high intellectual capabilities: serial killers (can't come up with a name right now).

Its hard for me to see how this is an example of high intellect. In the moral dimension, there is an agentic/”male” view of morality based on justice and rights, and a communal/”female” view of morality based on care and compassion. A serial killer grotesquely fails both. In addition to the moral considerations, its an objective fact that humans are connected in a deeply-woven social fabric millions of years in the making, and would never tolerate the upsetting of that fabric. To fail to grasp this is, to me, an indicator of how warped and partial one's reasoning ability becomes in the absence of emotional wholeness.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Michael,

Your forthrightness is refreshing!

On pedantry:
for people like you and I, for instance,  us “explainers” of personal experience (ours and/or others) the temptation to get downright “coherent” about our “perspective” is damned hard to resist.  Devotion to coherence is bound to lead to pedantry.

Yes, both you and I are explainers a la masculine mode, aren't we? It's wonderful to find that resonance here in addition to the balancing feminine perspective that loves to meander through poetic fields while batting lushly-lashed eyes at the reader, constantly cooing, “Are you with me, love?” I have just recently begun to tap into those feminine modes; my default is the sometimes-pedantic, intellectualized dialectic. Thanks for your admonition on easing up on the concern. I still have a strong green voice that is concerned about Right Speech; in most cases, it serves my intentions quite well. Sometimes it can suppress the hard-lined masculine voice, though, so I am constantly playing with these energies as they arise. Trying to bring the emergent symphony together in a way that honors all voices or energies is an exciting challenge that I enjoy embracing, but synthesizing them in a coherent way often means that one voice ends up expressing more loudly than others in the final product.

Yet, I-I wide, there seems to be a “less-than” associated with such “moving” text. 

Well, I agree that those who resonate more with the masculine mode can tend to assign a “less than” value judgment to the more poetic feminine voice. That said, I also see a lot of resonance with the feminine mode here in this pod, both in men and women. It seems the masculine voice still predominates, but we really do have a vibrant community that is moving towards integration and valuation of both feminine and masculine energies.


I contend that this issue of the search for dark spirit/shadow is elemental to the process of expansion.  Where do we put our attention:  towards sharpening our reasoning skills and requiring all “dark” experience/emotion to be rendered “reasonable” before we can utilize the new “conclusions” to further seek spirit?  I don't think so and not because I think that “dark” experience is too dangerous, its that I don't believe that “reason” is up to the task of “explaining” emotion.  Oh, we make fabulous attempts at it, and, God knows, people get rich and poor in the explaining-emotion business, but does it get us closer to the spirit fountain of eternal youth?  Me thinks not.

I LOVE this paragraph! Transrational stances are key when diving into Darkness. I have encountered experiences there that render my rather-sharp intellect mute. The maps I inherited from the hegemonic culture AND some subcultures, too, are simply inadequate when it comes to these messy territories. That's part of why my recent “stumbling” into Vedanta and Buddhism is so, so exciting and grounding, in a transrational way. I used to think that “grounded” meant having intellectual understanding. Now I know that that's only one story of many, and often the less-interesting one.

There's much more to comment on, but I'm running short on time on this sunny Saturday morning  uh, oh, is it afternoon already?! The wild freshness of nature beckons. I must move on for now to respond to others comments. I would love to continue this dialog if it is called forth, though…

This, though, deserves bringing into the light a second time:
acknowledging the mystery and certain that our priorities are well integrated, we can come to trust ourselves around these great questions and approach the fountain of spirit as children, drawn to the stuttering drop-like radiance of it while willing to navigate the many confounding obstacles in our way

LOVE it!

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Colin, you know what? Reading Michael's piece, it suddenly dawned on me that I had confused “pedantic” (which is what you were asking me about) – with “pedagogic” in our  PM exchange.

Damn, this is what happens when I'm distracted by my real-life job.

If you substitute “pedagogic”, my concerns make more sense. And I would still like to hear others' voices on that issue. But maybe that's been done to death by the veterans on these forums in years gone by, and it may require a new thread.

Again: LOVE your blog, bro, as you already know.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Mascha,

Funny thing is, your response still seemed to make sense to me. Perhaps the response would have been different, though, had the distinction come through then?

It seems the consensus so far is that pedantry doesn't come through or it's not off-putting. I am pleased to let it rest at that, if so.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Yes, Colin. If I hadn't mixed up the these two: pedantic and pedagogic, my response would have been, No, your essay didn't strike me as pedantic at all. Just clear-headed and succinct while flowing uninterruptedly, thus a beaut!

It is interesting, though, that we both grapple with expressing our authentic voices while also wanting to avoid sounding teachy & preachy. What I'm looking at here is the desire to control or manipulate how others receive my contributions and how they see me. Aww, the old “separate- self- wanting- to -make -right- impression” story.

I'm noticing how I feel drawn to people who truly, genuinely don't care anymore about this kind of social positioning and consider those courageous ones my teachers, whether they know it or not.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Mascha wrote: It is interesting, though, that we both grapple with expressing our authentic voices while also wanting to avoid sounding teachy & preachy. What I'm looking at here is the desire to control or manipulate how others receive my contributions and how they see me. Aww, the old “separate- self- wanting- to -make -right- impression” story.

I'm noticing how I feel drawn to people who truly, genuinely don't care anymore about this kind of social positioning and consider those courageous ones my teachers, whether they know it or not.

Woman, you are SO good at pulling these little unconscious energies out of the ether and setting them right in the center of the room. “The desire to control or manipulate how others receive my contribution.” Zoinks! Though I do still have some “social positioning” voices that make it through to my actions, I think it is also about trying to make sure that my conscious intentions come through in my words. The wonderful thing about writing, though, is that those little unconscious voices come through, too. Seeing them is a challenge; thanks for the light!

You amaze me whenever you speak through these little black and white traces; I can hardly imagine actually talking to you in person! Perhaps I'll get lucky one day.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Colin! – What a full and wonderful explication on suffering, radical acceptance, surrender, and transformation, through the lenses of Zen and psychology! So readable, clear, accessible, and engaging – and I didn't see it as pedantic at all. Simply superb!

You wrote: How did this newfound joy and equanimity come to me? Simply stated, it came through diving straight into this deep psychic pain, both inflicted by a wounded world and manifested by a damaged self. It was allowing my self to be consumed by the pain, burning it in the fire of purification, which provided the fuel for a new, more integral whole self to coalesce. The cause of such deep, fundamental pain is different for each of us; however, the underlying story is a perennial one. Freedom comes at a price: the contracted, constructed separate self must be sacrificed at the altar of Truth.

Pain and dark nights are intrinsic to spiritual transformation. The wound is the source of healing. And this is why I have felt frustrated by therapists – or, I should say, spiritually uninformed therapists, who often focus on ameliorating painful symptoms – with the goal of keeping you “functional.” I remember working for a corporation that prided itself on its alleged sensitivity to mental health issues by offering mental health benefits as part of its medical plan – after all, depressed or anxious employees are a drain on company productivity! Which is true, of course. And it's also true that certain symptoms do need to be addressed full on and right away, with medication if necessary. But it seems like the therapists who are covered in the benefits plan are into symptom management – and not really much beyond that. (Only speaking from my own personal experience here, of course). No genuine diving into the pain. No vigils through the dark night. No real examination of transformative potential. Those things would require a therapist or counselor not included in the benefits plan. (My company would not have covered Robert Augustus Masters, for example, even though my one session with him was worth far more than those months with insurance-approved therapists …).

Your explorations on pain and struggle bring to mind this passage from Centering Prayer and Inner Awakening by Cynthia Bourgeault:

“The relationship between light and dark may be far less obvious than a simple medical model would suggest ('Darkness is a pathology; cure it.') What if the apparent ubiquity of the false self system [by this she means the separate self-sense] had another explanation, other than sin or pathology? What if, as poets and mystics have long intuited–the resevoir of human darkness is not so much a disease as the raw material of our transformation; or in other words, without the false self system as the precondition of our humanity, there would be no journey and no transformation? …. True self comes into being as a kind of sacred alchemy, through the conscious acceptance and integration of our shadow side. It is not so much the curing of a pathology as the birthing of something that would never have existed apart from struggle, like a candle that reveals its true nature only when tallow and wick are set aflame.”

I am drawn to Buddhism in part due to the resonance I feel with the concept of paradox which is central to the core teachings of Zen.

Me too. Once any of the traditions / spiritual paths steps into post-conventional territory, paradox is always there to greet the journeyer. But paradox is so explicitly a part of Buddhism and Zen – the very fabric of it – at least that's how it seems to me. And I'm attracted to the understated elegance and wise emptiness of Zen. My first venture into a meditative breath-counting practice was a kind of home-spun Zen.

Thanks again for your work, Colin. I'll be keeping a copy of it.

Namaste,
Mary

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Mary,

I'm touched by your praise! It's so fabulous and energy-expanding when something that you write from a place of mind and heart based on personal experience actually resonates on a deep level with those here.

You wrote:
this is why I have felt frustrated by therapists - or, I should say, spiritually uninformed therapists, who often focus on ameliorating painful symptoms - with the goal of keeping you “functional.”

Yes! The over-reliance on “ameliorating painful symptoms” does a great disservice to those that are ready to transform for the sake of maintaining cogs in the capitalist machine. Don't rock the boat!  It is all a delicate balance, in terms of appropriate foci: when is a person ready to push through pain towards transformation versus needing to get grounded and learning to translate in more healthy ways? This is one key reason why I am seriously considering entering the psychotherapy field. Integral therapists rise up!! And coupling that with a queer focus; by golly, I could get rich! (Mostly kidding, but hey, we all gotta pay the bills.)

Zen's strengths in transrational thinking, meditation AND simplicity keep bringing me deeper into that tradition. I resonate with the transrational elements in Christianity and Vedanta, too, and I'm sure that my life journey will included diving into those traditions in a deeper way at some point, too. There's so much fullness all around, once we learn to see it!

Thanks for bringing the wise words of Cynthia Bourgeault in here. I resonate with every bit of it! Coming into this higher understanding of psychic pain has opened doors to the ineffable that I never knew existed. Seriously, I often feel like I've just entered an emerald forest that is raw and alive and dark and sparkly. I have journeyed through the depths of depression and pain of repression to come into worlds exploding with creative potentials. My life is more full than I ever imagined possible, and yet there's so much deeper to go! Wheeeeee!

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

I'll be traveling shortly so I'm posting my contribution to Blogopolooza early “Saturday morning. I may not be around to answer comments on Saturday, but I'll drop by as soon as I'm able to.

The Indigo Level of Consciousness

Beyond the familiar sights and sounds of teal (existential, evolutionary, systemic) and turquoise (intellectual, meta-systemic, integrative), there is another worldspace that is associated with the Integral consciousness. The findings of developmental psychology begin to become more exceptional and less sturdy, because fewer individuals have progressed to these terrains and so detailed studies are rarer and theoretical orientations more clumsy). At the same time, personal experience and the reports of other individuals becomes more relevant to refining the maps and exploring the territories.

Indigo is the altitude immediately beyond turquoise in Ken Wilber's Integral Theory, alternately known as the psychic or astral level in other developmental theories of mind. In these remarks, I'll briefly describe the descriptions of the indigo level as it appears in the work of three writers: (1) Susan Cook-Greuter (“A Detailed Description of the Development of Nine Action Logics in the Leadership Development Framework…”, 2002); Ken Wilber IV (“The Psychic Level,” Sex, Ecology, Spirituality: 1995); and Jim Marion's (“Chapter 9 of Putting on the Mind of Christ. Psychic Consciousness” 2000). After describing the indigo level, I'll weave together some of the common threads and describe a few practices known for heightening awareness of the indigo consciousness.

Cook-Greuter, Wilber, Marion

First, in the leadership developmental theory of Susan Cook-Greuter, the transition from the turquoise to the indigo and violet levels of consciousness is depicted as the arrival of a “Magician” or ego-aware level of consciousness. Cook-Greuter: “As the process of self-awareness deepens and reasoning becomes further differentiated for Magicians, access to intuition, bodily states, feelings, dreams, archetypal and other transpersonal material increases. More than that, these sources of knowledge can become as important as rational deliberation for making sense of experience and for finding meaning in life.” Thus, the post-turquoise developmental styles increasingly draw from non-rational sources, leading even to temporary states in which the personal self-sense disappears. The result is increasing witnessing with detachment to non-rational states without the ego's efforts to control and affirm itself.

At Indigo level, people more often than at earlier stages say that they are watching or witnessing the parades of thoughts and feelings come and go without trying to direct them. Thus, they experience moments of freedom from the ego's constant striving. Cook-Greuter describes the indigo paradox thusly: “The more one is conscious and proud of one's psychic powers and ego-transcending quest, the more clearly one's ego is still enthroned.”
 
The consequence of such paradox may mean a feeling of increasing complexity, hubris, the need for ever larger theories to account for the self, and a sense of envy at the simplicity of others' self-sense. Indigo is less self-important than turquoise and less fervent in the desire to help others to achieve their potential. Indigo becomes more self-tolerant, using mature defenses to grapple with their own flaws, and sometimes choose less mature behavior styles and tolerate their own raw impulses. Persons at indigo are intrigued by the need for human meaning-making, fascinated by the limits of rational thought, and absorbed by the need to live within the paradox of language.

Ken Wilber introduces the psychic (indigo) level in Sex, Ecology, Spirituality as the first of the genuinely transpersonal levels of consciousness. Wilber goes to great length to equate the notion of the World Soul with Emerson's notion of the Over-Soul, an anchor of the higher Self that knows no defined personal roles such as male or female. It is the ever-present observer within the self, or the Witness, that emerges at this stage. In Emerson's thought: “The Soul is tied to no individual, no culture, no tradition, but rises fresh in every person, beyond every person, and grounds itself in a truth and glory that grows to nothing in the world of time and place and memory…. all things are made sacred by relationship to it–one as much as another. All things are dissolved to their center by their cause.'

Emerson finds in direct experience of the Nature the fullest expression of Spirit. It is not Spirit itself, but an expression of symbol of Spirit that saves Emerson's naturalism from regressing to “undifferentiated biospheric immersion.” Emerson's mysticism of the Over-Soul embraces Nature, but transcends it. Wilber defines three distinct worldviews on the relationship between nature and spirit:

1. Magical indissociation, spirit equated with nature.

2. Mythic disassociation, nature and spirit ontologically separate.

3. Psychic mysticism, nature a perfect expression of spirit, united and conjoined.

Wilber links this third worldview to the psychic domain (soon to be called the indigo level). In a footnote, Wilber continues: “The psychic level, which is the realm of initial transpersonal or mystical awareness, often involves a great number of seemingly unrelated phenomena, from various types of actual paranormal cognitions and events (e.g., 'astral travel,' out-of-the-body experiences) to numerous preliminary meditative states; kundalini awakenings (especially of the first five chakras); reliving of birth and pre-birth states; temporary identification with plants, animals, humans, aspects of nature, or even all of nature (nature mysticism, cosmic consciousness)–to name a very few. What all of those have in common is that the mystical experience moves beyond ordinary or conventional reality (the gross/waking realm), but still takes a part of its referent the gross/waking realm.”

Jim Marion summarizes the nature of the psychic consciousness: “At the psychic level of consciousness we no longer identify the self with the rational mind. Instead, we identify the self with the inner witness that observes body, emotions, and mind. This inner witness is the permanent self, the part of the self beyond spacetime. The permanent self has senses such as clairaudience and clairvoyance that roughly parallel the physical senses, and which are referred to in the New Testament. Persons with psychic consciousness may make use of abilities such as healing by the laying on of hands, prophecy, and speaking in tongues.”

Marion describes prophecy as a spiritual gift residing at the psychic level of consciousness. Prophecy is distinct from speaking in tongues, the utterances spoken in trance by members of mythic religion and translated in kind by other mythic religionists. Instead, Marion says, the major spiritual traditions have advised against the development of prophetic powers until one is grounded in the psychic level itself. Prophecy includes foretelling the future; but moreover, it means “opening our inner psychic faculties to hear the words, or see the images, sent down from the spiritual planes (including our own 'higher selves' or souls) for our guidance.” Such prophetic messages were an important part of early Christian spirituality, and today it is practiced primarily among Christian new agers and spiritual and metaphysical churches (because there's no longer support for it in mainstream Christianity).

Basic competence at the psychic level is necessary for spiritual development; however, developing the gifts of prophecy is not. Basic competence in psychic experiences involves becoming interested in the events of our own psyche and the ability to see and feel what is going on within us. For Marion, it marks the arrival of a truly contemplative mode of consciousness.

Perhaps the greatest distinguishing characteristic between the turquoise and indigo levels of consciousness is the ability to hold the integrated self's identity, even the structures of our own shadows and conscious awareness, as an object to the witness.

The ego-aware mind hears its own voice and is aware of its modulations of volume.

The ego-aware mind is the first level of consciousness to sense the falseness of conventional understandings of causality.

The ego-aware mind speaks its own voice and is capable of raising and lowering its tone.

The ego-aware mind feels its own sensations and is attune to the inner hum and stirrings of its own body.

The ego-aware mind sees itself and all the contents of its consciousness and is aware of its separation from the mind.

Indigo is less concerned than turquoise with developing comprehensive worldviews or integrating partial conceptions of reality into flexible and flowing holistic syntheses. Indigo “takes for granted” that the psyche, culture, nation, and world are inseparable at the root. Its growing awareness of connectedness and unity is without effort; it is simply becoming more attuned to the sights, sounds, and dynamics of one's own psyche.

Conventional awareness perceives events and causes. Indeed, the entire architecture of the Newtonian worldview is based on the notion that events cause other events to unfold in a linear continuity of time. Detectable cause precedes observable effect.

Take prayer, for example. A prayer that something beneficial will happen in the future AND IT DOESN'T is an example of magical thinking. A prayer that something beneficial will happen in the future AND IT DOES is an example of thinking that may be magical or may be participating in transrational structures of knowing. Actually, whether or not the event happens in the future is irrelevant. A genuinely transrational structure of knowing is able to understand the prayer as an opening of the Soul to Nature, regardless or whether Nature pays heed to the Soul within any specific time frame.

The ego-aware mind begins to perceive the unity of causation and observation. Past, present, and future no longer appear as strictly linear points along a line, but as segments of a loop that can mutually interact. Suddenly, the contents of the future appear as repeating patterns of connecting symbolism extending forward into the future based on past trends and present contours.

Indigo is more fascinated by the need for transrational structures of meaning-making and solution-seeking. Art, story, symbol, image, and metaphor may become more intriguing than concept, idea, theory, and framework.

Indigo tends to derive greater satisfaction from communal and relational expressions of meaning-making. Whereas turquoise may be content with a perfectly ordered meta-systematic philosophy, indigo allows for flexibility, fuzziness, and vagueness of concept in order to allow for new bonds of community to arise within a more generous and fluid orthodoxy.

Indigo tends to become more tolerant with flaws, character defects, and shadows. Rather than strive to incorporate and overcome every failing and disowned portion of consciousness, indigo may become satisfied with giving expression to lower impulses with an attitude of playful acceptance, or letting others have their shadows. “So I am selfish with my love of ice cream. Then I shall permit myself an indulgence, and be morally tolerant of those who are also occasionally self-indulgent.”

Indigo steers clear of magical indissociation, which equates spirit with nature. Also avoided are mythic disassociation, which separates nature and spirit, and rational disassociation, which separates reason and spirit. At the psychic level, nature, reason, and spirit are united.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Just as i in initially skim through this i am finding many resonances with what i perceive to be the chore of the An throposophy i grew up surrounded by.

Indigo Consciousness

Perhaps the greatest distinguishing characteristic between the turquoise and indigo levels of consciousness is the ability to hold the integrated self's identity, even the structures of our own shadows and conscious awareness, as an object to the witness.

This is exactly what Steiner is getting at in this book.

Indigo is less concerned than turquoise with developing comprehensive worldviews or integrating partial conceptions of reality into flexible and flowing holistic syntheses. Indigo “takes for granted” that the psyche, culture, nation, and world are inseparable at the root. Its growing awareness of connectedness and unity is without effort; it is simply becoming more attuned to the sights, sounds, and dynamics of one's own psyche.

This (and i am not implying that i am at Indigo, but perhaps have an Indigo framework as architecture to my practice in some of the ideas and people that surround me) resonates very deeply with what i am discovering is my practice.

And this adds one of the missing pieces in the Anthroposophy of the 1920's:

Dramatic shadow work is a particular exciting way to practice mindful awareness, attune to the psychodnymaics of a moment, the complex interactions between participants and observers in a shadow work healing process. Guiding him step-by-step through the process of becoming an impartial observer or witness of his own inner dramas of the mind. That turns me on; that helps me to feel that I am on the cutting edge of my awareness in the indigo faculties.

Writing is also of special beneift, particularly when I allow myself the indulgence of writing in a stream of consciousness mode. Whole Wrting is a technique I often use to hear, feel, relate to, envision, symbolize, and tell stories about the working of my inner life. The truth is it's not a very turquoise practice. Its very chaotic and unstructured fashion deconstruct the analytic rigoeour and rationalistic precision demanded by turquoise systematizing. It is more of an indigo-responsive practice: it permits unfettered awareness of the egoic mind in its most expansive and embodied position of knowledge. From there, the AQAL tools of analysis are not really necessary after the fact, except as an impression or style or decoration.

That fascinates me - i will definitely explore…

Thank you so much for that post! It sends waves of crystalising affirmation to the jewels that ive been fortunate to gain glimpses of by grace in the 26 years of my full and varied life ive been gifted with.

I will be re-reading that again many times im sure.

Cheers

Melv

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Hi all,

Having turned to you, the I-I online communities, basically for instruction in how to bring this particular cutting edge of recent development , the frameworks and practices of Integral theory, to bare on my own path, I've come to enjoy most how reading you all consistantly turns my attentions toward self evaluation.

Finding Joe's outlines of indigo gratifying, familiar and plausible…  , then finding Julian's arguments and Mr. T's critique welcome and entertaining (in the literal sense,”a keeping among”). That I value my own need to apply critical ascertaining to the spectrum of experiential aspects, and weed out the many ways I graft object onto subject without the surgical balance of sloughing off what currently serves noone.

I think that in both of these “corners” of the (Joe/J,T) disscussion there may be somewhat of an inflation of inhabited semantic positions.

I deeply agree with Mr. Teacup's statement (re: psychic phenomena) “…there's a layer of meaning and interpretation that's appended to these that I don't think is warrented.”

And with Julian's, “…what worries me too is the color-coding altitudinal shorthand devolving into neat sound-bytes that we identify with or  try to 'intentionally' include in our way of being - when actually i think they refer to super-complex worldviews that are only evolved through by some really deep gruelling work.”

At one time, for myself, apparentally psychic informedness was par for the course: anteni up, reception clear, confirmations abounding. That was during the few years leading up to entering a Zen monastery, and continuing for the first few years as a seminarian there.

It was during that period that Lou LaRosa, a protege of Carl Rogers ( after living and working with me for half a year or so) told me that I was…”the most advanced twenty year old [he'd] ever met.” Unconditional positive regard aside, I've since related Lou's comment more to his own esteem of evident cosmic connectedness than to any intrinsic merit of my own. That also happened to be a time when I knew Emerson's work forwards&backwards. I can't now, nor did I then, agree with Joe in equating World Soul/ Over-Soul with the Witness. 

In my Soto/Rinzai Zen lineage we're cautioned to refrain from snagging on psychic phenomena as we progress in meditation. The implication there bares out that the ededically psychic is some mid-level range which practicioners are pointed beyond, to go deeper. 

I think that why I found Joe's essay gratifying has to do with the cumulative memory of the value of intuition as a navigational faculty, for self and others, which I associate with optimal , highly efficient, engagments of opportunity, and appropriate timing/placing.

Tonight, with the Pentecost Vigil underway, I trust us all to interpret in each our own present semantic. 

-with a grateful affection,

jikishin

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Joe, I love your essay, and I am going to order your book. I have not really considered the framework of emerging Indigo consciousness. I love what you have added to my understanding. We have spent a pile of II-Zaadz threads sadly and unsatifyingly circling around the pre/trans fallacy; the difference between pre-rational and transrational; even the Law of Attraction when 'weird shit happens' with the lurking undertone that you're a feeble-minded magical thinker and might need anti-psychotic drugs if you notice it. In most of these discussions I have felt bruised and unheard, and have basically withdrawn from them.

The utter fact that we are even here is the all the testimonial any of us should need to know the 'weird shit happens'. Beyond the crystalized, concretized version of the cause and effect explanation of ALL THIS is the field that Rumi talks about:
“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing
and rightdoing there is a field.
I'll meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass
the world is too full to talk about.”
This poem by Rumi has come up in discussions before, a soulmark that might provide recognition upon arrival at this field. I cannot pretend to spend all my time in this field, but I have been there, and I always know it is 'just over there', no matter what is happening, EVER. I know that in this field, although the laws of cause and effect are absolutely true, they are not that interesting or compelling. That we have arrived in this moment through our long journey from nothing to something to nothing, forming and dissolving time and again in this stew of infinite potential, this is a synchronicity beyond our wildest imaginings. It makes the orange scientific rational view point appear to be constipated in the extreme,–though not at all untrue, it becomes uncomfortable.
Really understanding what it means to say, 'We are the word made flesh' opens to how we are the immanence of spirit expressed and impressed in these clay bodies. We arising within a context, within a time frame, within the unity of everything that has come before, and will come after us. We are spirit peeking out of spirit, looking into spirit, folded and enfolded and folding. Looked at from this perspective, a few naughty charletans pulling rabbits out of hats with a convincing allure, they are small potatoes, indeed. “When the soul lies down in this grass, the world is too full to talk about.”
Thank you so much for your wonderful contribution.
Jane

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

That's a great contribution Joe!

At the moment I don't have time for any lengthy response, I'll try to post something more tomorrow.

What I do want to say is that your brilliant description of Indigo, might in fact contain indigo (psychic) as well as the true turquoise (the Magician by SCG). I believe that what is often referred to as turquoise in the integral movement (and by Ken himself!) is in fact turquoise cognition with teal values.

I would list it roughly like this:
green - systemic (4-p)
teal - metasystemic (weak 5-p)
turquoise - construct-aware, ego-aware (strong 5-p)
indigo - psychic (going beyond 5-p)

The most vicious debates in the integral sphere are between teal and green, as well as teal and turquoise. In both cases teal feels that the “opponent” is spaced out, in the first case rightly so and in the second case because of altitude sickness. Because teal only has a weak 5-p, it is the most aggressive group in defending AQAL and integral purity, since it is still scared of slipping back into green.


My 2 cents for now,

thanks again
pelle

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Joe,

Indigo is the altitude immediately beyond turquoise in Ken Wilber's Integral Theory, alternately known as the psychic or astral level in other developmental theories of mind.

I see you are using Wilber-IV here, but Wilber-V rejects the view that Indigo is the psychic stage, and that there even is a psychic stage. From Integral Spirituality:

[In previous models] you would go from Loevinger's integrated level (centaur) to psychic level to subtle level to nondual level… It was a start – at least some people were taking Western and Eastern approaches seriously – but problems immediately arose… All of our early attempts were stalling around this issue.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

ah, the pre/trans debate is close at hand and the problem of what is green and what is turquoise relative to teal is a subset of it…. the attempt to stake out indigo is a new twist though!

joe i think you are an interesting and intense dude and look forward to your book.

at the same time this essay raises some predictable concerns that i am glad teacup is already addressing.

because there is so  much here that seems muddled and over-reaching i am going to quote some stuff back to you and respond. feel free to engage or not based  on your time and interest contraints.

all the best
~julian

”Basic competence at the psychic level is necessary for spiritual development; however, developing the gifts of prophecy is not. Basic competence in psychic experiences involves becoming interested in the events of our own psyche and the ability to see and feel what is going on within us. For Marion, it marks the arrival of a truly contemplative mode of consciousness.”

a) are you saying that one does not have spiritual development without the “necessary”  basic competence at the psychic level?

b) gifts of prophecy? any examples from your own experience, verifiable studies, or anywhere that does not require accepting this concept at face value just because you say so?

c) so let me get this straight - marion says that a truly contemplative mode of consciousness is marked by what? is it 1) the ability to witness ones own psyche's events/inner workings or 2) experiences of “psychic phenomena” and/or 3) the supposed “gifts of prophecy?”

”The ego-aware mind is the first level of consciousness to sense the falseness of conventional understandings of causality.”

it sounds like yopu are leaning toward the junk science of what the bleep and the secret here, joe. say it isn't so! the “falseness of cnventiional understandings of causality?” please explain.

”Conventional awareness perceives events and causes. Indeed, the entire architecture of the Newtonian worldview is based on the notion that events cause other events to unfold in a linear continuity of time. Detectable cause precedes observable effect.Take prayer, for example. A prayer that something beneficial will happen in the future AND IT DOESN'T is an example of magical thinking. A prayer that something beneficial will happen in the future AND IT DOES is an example of thinking that may be magical or may be participating in transrational structures of knowing.”

well maybe we are in the territory i was hoping to avoid, but damn if this aint at the heart of the discussion about integral and where to put new age magic  and mythic religious worldviews, right? are they pre or trans rational?

sounds like you are saying that post conventional awareness sees through cause and effect relationships. can you provide any evidence or clear argument for this? because to my thinking  prerational perceives magic because it does not yet grasp cause and effect, rational makes sense of it quite clearly and lets go of magical interpretations, and transrational is rational +, and builds upon the accuracy of rational, adding to it, but not contradicting it in the way you seem to be asserting. cause and effect still aplies - run at a brick wall and you are going down, right? i don't care how highly developed your inner world is…..

as to the prayer example you set up. sorry but i can't make sense of this: i) if it doesnt come true it was magical thinking, but ii) if it does come true it could be either magical or genuinely transrational.

huh?

what about iii) that the event that the prayer requested coming to pass or not is most likely entirely independent of the prayer and that until adequate causality is proven (which it still never has been by anyone) the link is flimsy at best?

”Past, present, and future no longer appear as strictly linear points along a line, but as segments of a loop that can mutually interact. Suddenly, the contents of the future appear as repeating patterns of connecting symbolism extending forward into the future based on past trends and present contours.”

joe for me this is an example of you excercising your fun vocabulary and conceptual skills while saying essentially very little.

i'll just break down that last sentence:

the contents of the future
appear as repeating patterns of connecting symbolism
extending forward into the future
based on past trends and present contents

sounds like a roundabout way of awkwardly expressing conventional causality. if not please do explain.

confused by how “the contents of the future” are “extending toward the future” and what you mean by “repeating patterns of connecting symbolism.” any examples?

”Indigo is more fascinated by the need for transrational structures of meaning-making and solution-seeking. Art, story, symbol, image, and metaphor may become more intriguing than concept, idea, theory, and framework.”

sounds like your versioon of indigo likes artistic expression more than other kinds of more literal intellectualism. but joe, don't the srtistic expressions you describe exist within a cponceptual framework or context and isn't the accurate interpretation of the symbol, story, image or metaphor contingent upon including that conceptual framework?

sounds like you are assigning intuitive and artistic modes of experiencing/expressing to indigo and relegating the rest to lower levels. this doesn't make sense to me.

”Indigo tends to derive greater satisfaction from communal and relational expressions of meaning-making. Whereas turquoise may be content with a perfectly ordered meta-systematic philosophy, indigo allows for flexibility, fuzziness, and vagueness of concept in order to allow for new bonds of community to arise within a more generous and fluid orthodoxy.”

so let me get this straight - you are suggesting a developmental proccess in which movement forward introduces “fuzziness and vagueness” in order to allow “generous and fluid orthodoxy” within community. so we move from the lower level of being concerned with accuracy and clarity that creates a kind of prickly disagree-ability to a higher level that embraces vague concepts and flexible fuzziness in order to bond with eachother better?

is it just me or doesn't that sound like regression?

“fluid orthodoxy” - not sure what this oxymoron is meant to indicate - can you define it for me?

”Indigo steers clear of magical indissociation, which equates spirit with nature. Also avoided are mythic disassociation, which separates nature and spirit, and rational disassociation, which separates reason and spirit. At the psychic level, nature, reason, and spirit are united.”

sounds good to me! but joe, the quotes above suggest that you in fact are championing a dissociation of reason and spirit - and suggesting that indigo is beyond reason. i hear you wanting to have this both ways - can you clarify?

“At its best, the pre/trans fallacy tells people at orange to wisen up and stop listening to the regressive voices of magenta and amber that are holding them back. It's a powerful idea. But as consciousness ascends the ladder, even the pre/trans fallacy appears relatively true. Where bodymind, soul, spirit, culture, and nature intersect … where cause and effect reveal themselves as two associations in mind, neither to be absolutely privileged over the other … then the pre/trans fallacy can hold us back to a fuller embrace of the highest dimensions of spirit.”

as you might guess, i completely disagree here. the pre/trans fallacy is not relative at all. in fact the higher one goes the more relevant it becomes because it is so tempting (especially in the absence of serious practice) to buy into prerational interpretations and belief systems thinking that they are transrational. it's a very simple, yet as you point out , powerful tool.

i find no evidence or compelling argument in your piece for:

a) the literal reality of cause and effect being transcended at transrational.

b) cause and effect having anything to do with the pre/trans fallacy except that prior to rational cognition we do not understand cause and effect.

c) the inclusion of things like astrology, prophecy and strange loops in the space-time continuum in teal, turquoise or indigo worldviews.

i can't help but feel that this essay in some ways embodies the problem for integral that i describe here.

as a footnote i also wonder if some of the problem lies in the word “psychic” as either:

a) a descriptor of paranormal events, or as a proper noun for indicating someone who supposedly has paranormal abilities.
b) as referring to things that have to do with the psyche or
c) as a level of development that has a lot to do with serious long-term  meditative practice abd very little to do with metaphysical theories of the spirit world and other (to my mind) kitschy notions.

these three usages tend to get overlapped and merged a bit in discussing the super high levels of integral altitude - where hardly anyone really is anyway - especially without decades of really commited formal meditation practice, amongst other things.

the unfortunate result is that so-called psychic powers, experiences, events, abilities and/or faith-based metaphysical beliefs get associated by many if not most people interested in spirituality as being indicators of high evolution when more often than not they are prerational fantasies based in flatland readings of the map to an inner journey.

this perpetuates the false dichotomy between the rational and spiritual lines and keeps us squarely in the realm of pre/trans fallacy with little hope of escape. either you are spiritual and you “believe” or you are unspiritual and you don't….

what worries me too is the color-coding altitudinal shorthand devolving into neat sound-bytes that we identify with or try to “intentionally” include in our way of being - when actually i think they refer to super-complex worldviews that are only evolved through by some really deep gruelling work. as we all know - the map aint the territory.

as people bringing the integral vision to the world, how do we deal with these very nuanced problems?

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

I'm probably not going to be able to articulate this very well, but I think some of your arguments, Julian, are perfect examples of what Joe says here:

Indigo is less concerned than turquoise with developing comprehensive worldviews or integrating partial conceptions of reality into flexible and flowing holistic syntheses. Indigo “takes for granted” that the psyche, culture, nation, and world are inseparable at the root. Its growing awareness of connectedness and unity is without effort….

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Oh but you did articulate it very well Grey!

Don't be so modest Go.. I mean Grey :P

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

God:
A person at second tier can and, indeed, still needs to distinguish between pre and trans, but for someone at third tier, this, to a certain extent, becomes a non-issue.

Well, I firmly believe that Ken's at third tier. Would you say it's a non-issue to him? :)

Also, transrational is anything beyond rational, which includes Indigo. At transrational levels, you realize  the limitations of (pure) rationality, and/or simply run into them. That doesn't mean you reject rationality (that would be a ptf) but that you complement it with other ways of knowing. The intellect becomes the Servant instead of being the Master. Indigo is just more transrational than Turquoise.

The ptf is a kind of error, and why would it just stop being an error in an Indigo worldspace?
What changes between levels is the way you look at the ptf, and you might react differently to people committing a ptf. I don't know if this is what Joe means, but I'd love to hear his explanation.


Peter

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Peter: transrational is anything beyond rational, which includes Indigo

Yes, I realize this, which is part of the reason I was concerned that I wouldn't articulate my thoughts properly.  I was trying to make a distinction between second and third tier to express how someone at third tier will see the issues in a manner that is significantly different from third tier, in the same way that someone at second-tier sees things significantly differently from someone at first-tier.

And if Wilber is at third tier, that's fine.  I suspect he probably is, but there's no reason that someone at third tier can't see the good in trying to bring higher level truths “to the masses”, so to speak, in a more “rational” (in some way “academic”) manner than, say, an Aurobindo speaking in more mystical terms.

Cheers,
Grey

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

the argument does not sound very strong grey.

for many reasons, but the simplest is this:

non-duality in no way whatsoever contradicts or renders uneccesary rational distinctions like the pre/trans fallacy.

it simply does not do so at all.

in fact without solid interpretive tools like the pre/trans fallacy all sorts of things get misinterpreted as being non-dual.

non-duality is not reducible to an idea.

the suggestion that non-duality means that all conflicts or distinctions are resolved is to my mind pure relativist  wishful thinking.

personally i was introduced to the non-dual about 13 years ago by a mentor who introduced me to maharshi, gangaji etc, had it reiterated by reading wilbers work, going to a lot of satsang and incorporating witnessing into my meditation since then. i have spent some time exploring what it is and what it isn't and i would actually reverse what you are asserting and say that it is an EARLY oversimplification/ idealization of non-dual states that leads one to imagine that rational distinctions no longer matter and that fuzzy logic is somehow “higher” than acurate interpretations.

i think a more mature understanding of non-dual consciousness recognizes that it (as wilber says again and again) is not a panacea or a substitute for any of the other necessary work.

wilber: “if you are an asshole before non-dual awakening, you'll be an asshole affter non-dual awakening, because it leaves you prettty much as it finds you…”

we could insert anny number of words in the place of “asshole” right?

non-dual awakening is not a get out of jail free card - it's also not a cool concept to run a belief system through. because it is beyond concepts means that something profound opens up in your consciousness when in the non-dual state. this does not mean that the space time continuum is seen to be a strange loop or that astrology is suddenly as meaningful as ethical philosophy, or that quantum physics is proven by meditation, or that the pre/trans fallacy no longer applies - in fact, ironically - it's at the heart of this conversation.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Well, not being third-tier myself, I suppose I'm in no position to speculate on what it must be like, which may explain why I'm not able to explain myself properly here. I didn't mean to suggest that the pre/trans fallacy is somehow no longer valid at third tier or that one somehow regresses to magical, pre-rational thinking at third tier.

It just seems to me, based on how most mystics tend to talk and the fact that it is, after all, referred to as a next “tier” and not just another level of second tier, that someone at third tier will have a more integral, natural grasp of non-duality, so that what us first and second-tier types think of as accurate, rational interpretation may not have all that much to do with what a third-tier type considers to be accurate and true.

So given the context of evolving spirituality and developing humanity, it seems closed-minded to me to assume that all psychic or otherwise currently unexplained phenomena are necessarily magic-mythic and pre-rational.  That also doesn't mean that the Law of Attraction is all of a sudden true, and I actually share your skepticism about astrology, but then again, who's to say that some people don't use astrology as a means of opening themselves up to “truer” sources of intuitive knowledge or whatever (again just hypothesizing). That doesn't necessarily validate all astrology or raise it to the same level as other spiritual thought. It just recognizes the fact that you can't necessarily reject what an individual is able to achieve simply because of the label applied to their methods or their practice.

Anyway, I'm probably talking myself into an even deeper hole here, so I'll stop and wait for Joe to answer your questions, since I'm sure he can do it better than I could.

Ciao for now,
Grey