Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

I am going to reveal a part of my Shadow Self, a side of me that I am somewhat ashamed of. Even though I am not an angry person, or have many severe faults that have a negative affect on spirituality, I do have one fault that is nonetheless very common to everyone. That is Materialism.

I am still trying to figure out how to apply AQAL to my own self in some ways, though of course that is part of AQAL that you won’t  always be able to see how I applies to you in all ways, and it requires breaking free to an Integral view.

Until AQAL though I did not truly understand how I was both spiritual oriented, and fairly materialistic. My friends who were truthful and those Ihad spiritual discussions with often said “I do not understand how you can be so spiritual and materialistic at the same time”, even my own mother said this.  I feel uncomfortable with putting myself too high on the AQAL scale as we are usually not where we think we are, but I do generally have an all encompassing world view and do not see separateness as much as other people. So I feel like my spirituality is rooted in compassion rather than a selfish, self-indulgent spirituality. I believe spirituality is oriented toward serving others.

At the same time I am very worldly materialistic. I am an adept consumerist.  I have a luxury aesthetic. I love luxury things, I love shopping which gives me a small high, I love nice things. It is not necessarily even about status, because I just like the idea of having something that is expensive.  I own a Gucci wallet, drive a Lincoln, and generally feel thankful but also slightly guilty for some of it.

Many have said that from an Integral view or a spiritual view we should accept this side of ourselves, I do to an extent but still feel like it is very out of balance, and feel like our culture is very out of balance.

Since I am 20 and not long out of High School, I can see how especially in High School the materialism and consumerism was really programmed and kicked in.

School systems even allow some corporations to  directly market to High School students, and a lot is marketed directly to the psychology of High School students. It is getting worse and worse every year, now you see toys that kids play with being more materialistc than fantastical like they once were,  like the Bratz wearing fashion clothes and makeup, the toy cars being specific brands and having accessories like rims.

Marketers are very smart, and have been trained to use all tactics to manipulate people to develop patterns of spending. Today everyone is marketed to, from children to the elderly. Kids as young as 4 seem to be marketed to, and like the branded toy cars I mentioned companies are even preparing kids for materialistic luxury spending later on in life.

I would not be surprised if a marketer somewhere is applying AQAL for commercial materialistic purposes, to further market goods to people on certain levels and patterning a marketing campaign using all quadrants.

This marketing has developed unhealthy spending habits, taking advantage of our materialistic tendencies.  The average American is in $10,000 of credit card debt, and I have heard the credit card companies claiming it is mostly on non-essential or luxury goods. Most people go into $5,000 credit card debt for Christmas. Where does it end?

How do I stop it within myself, when I am bombarded with marketing  and the fact that everyone seems to support or admire a luxury lifestyle? People often judge you by how you look, what you drive, and how successful financially you are. Even your own friends and family, nice people!

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

Find the source of the aesthetic
and then there will be no need
to adorn with things or people.

love

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

I am surprised there is not more in-depth discussion of this, I am always regretful there isnt more discussion on this topic in spiritual forums even though I see others who also practice the same materialistic lifestyles in the spiritual community. (Without judgement, just others do).


Anyone else have any insights?

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

It's a difficult question to address. As you've said, there are many very strong influences encouraging materialism, and powerful drives coming from our biology and culture and family conditioning that make us use materialism to display our status within the “herd” of humans.

Everybody knows that voluntary simplicity is always an option, but there are few rewards for it, and many rewards for conspicuous consumption and the displays that debt makes possible.

As far as I can tell, the questions of materialism and cost, display and debt are not much addressed in integral theory.

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

And not truly addressed by many spiritual books or teachers if you think about it other than traditional religion saying materialism is perhaps wrong or off-balance, which I agree is true when it is in extreme as it is in our society. Though today even most major religions in affluent cultures don't elaborate.

I suppose it is because most of us do it and its so in front of us we don't ever question how bad it really can be?

I think it is often wrong as most of the poorer nations of the world are so far removed from the standard of living of the affluent countries that it is almost a crime against humanity to an extent.

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

It's pretty clear that you see many of the contradictions and, to be frank, the hypocricy, of many of the cultural and “spiritual” norms in our very, very affluent society.

Understanding why it works the way it does is much harder, and requires that we see how much of our economic behaviors are very primitive and unconscious.

And we don't like to see ourselves as primitive and unconscious, ha ha ha.

It's kinda funny to realize that people often crave a simpler kind of life, and idealize it, hoping that some day they'll be able to give up the rat race and spend some time enjoying nature and their friends and their own minds.

But the pressure to display status and social position, and to give one's children and family the benefits of perceived status, is so fierce that very few people can effectively resist it, untill they get old, and are no longer given the social signals that they MUST display status in order to prove their worth.

And I agree with your observation about religious and spiritual leadership in this issue. We would like more social signals that the simple life is an acceptable option, and not the last refuge of the social loser - but we don't get that message from the dominant “spiritual” leadership anymore.

Personally, I think our vast wealth has corrupted our own sense of the spiritual - we have created a spirituality that justifies our wealth. Market forces in action.

There aren't any really effective counters to materialism and display on the horizen. We may be doomed to the rat race, untill the oil runs out.

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

At 20, you should give yourself a bit of a break on this issue. One thing I see with young integralites is that they are impatient to have all of their lives reflect their highest self all the time. This isn't possible.

The ascending path will knock you on your ass eventually! You're only 20, and there is plenty of time. It will happen someday that you either grow out of this phase gradually, or some big events will kick it out of you. (Um, my guess is the latter, as our system is breaking down before our eyes.)

Either way, there will always be some part of you that you don't feel is up to snuff. Lines of development are not in any way congruent. You're just as fucked up as everyone else. Feel better? hehe

Have some compassion for your self. Just witness these feelings and don't judge. You will get less and less attached to this surface stuff, and paradoxically, more able to enjoy truly high-quality things, regardless of their label. And you may even find a way to truly express this part of yourself in a positive way. You will let go of needing to impress people you wouldn't want as friends, anyway.

Liz

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

Hi Advait

Thanks for being so open and honest first up!  I love the energy with which us young integralites pursue the means through which we can grow, its such an encouraging dynamic, especially considering the drop-out tendencies of many of our contemporaries!  But as Liz said, that same dynamic has its dangers, its easy to become slightly idealistic about ourselves as Integral beings, and get frustrated when we arn't 'growing in every dimension'.

Also, however, I think the whole issue of materialism is a little more complex than has been discussed so far.  Seeing materialism as inherantly bad is a very simplistic and unintegral way of looking at it.  As older integralites (no offence Bill and Liz ;) you have probably had the anti-materialist perspective hammered into you culturally for some time.  (ducks)

Green hates materialism - it sees it as an orange luxery that hurts the environment, exploits people and blocks spiritual growth.  So what is teal's relationship to materialism?  Well firstly it should be able to see that material wealth is one of the most important aspirations in orange's life - and so shouldn't be condemned.  Its a classic green thing just see something like materialism or capatalism as wrong, and so say it should be 'got rid of' - not really respecting the spiral now is it.

Is materialism going to make you ultimately happy?  No, of course not.  Is it going to get in the way of higher spiritual development?  Well, it could do if you have an unhelathy relationship to it - but not materialsim universally.

So my advice brother, would be top try to let go of some of the green cultural attitudes to materialism that have been hammered into you, stop seeing it as 'bad' then examine it, and you're relationship to it.  You may still feel you need to shed some of its importance in your life - or you may not.  But start to shed your guilt - its not your guilt - its our inherited cultural guilt.


Ewan

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

True, I agree, but I hear the same explanation from many spiritual people who indulge in the same lifestyle. I was hoping for more discussion on Materialism general, rather than necessary as a personal qundary of mine. I accept it to an extent but know for a fact that it is out of balance in my life, and I feel like in society.

I have been spiritual since a young age, 12 perhaps, been studying different spiritual beliefs. Though it was mostly self-study, my family are traditional Southern Protestants though Methodists.

I'd say reflecting on materialism did not really come into my mind until High School, when I became materialistic and first really started buying brand names for myself. Even before that though I encouraged my parents to stay in nice hotels when we traveled and such funnily. Though now at 20 I realize it has been put off-balance in my life, I spend approximately 60% of my time thinking on what to buy, how to get wealth, who has wealth, window shopping, online shopping, etc. I subscribe to all the men's fashion magazines. If many really thought about it they would realize they might contemplate such things too perhaps.

As far as being a young Integralite, well I don't feel so young in my spiritual development lines having read and contemplated a lot since a young age, but I learned just for the past 2 years to really integrate the Shadow Self but perhaps we don't really realize we have a Shadow Self until our late teens and twenties as we don't really contemplate our external actions so much. I am glad to be a young Integralite rather than being overly jaded (Not that anyone here is jaded, but with age comes that).  However with materialism I feel like it is society that programs this widespread out of balance consumerism, and materialism. I do not feel like its all natural unlike lust etc. You can see some societies in the past that placed more value on well just that, values.

Though the answers here do reflect our society even more, and how widespread materialism has become accepted to such an extent. I certainly don't think its Idealistic. If you think about materialistic drives create a lot of negativity, as does Capitalism. Green and Orange is definitely not integrated in our society, and mostly the philosophy written on it is at the extremes rather than being Integral.

I have yet to see many written works or words by spiritual teachers or philosophers on an Integrated Green and Orange viewpoint of materialism and capitalism.

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

Echoing Ewans post. Here is a rich dude helping out.

http://www.sram.com/en/
http://www.worldbicyclerelief.org/

—

It seems the major religions were created around Blue (SD colors)
when Orange was not yet a major movement. So it is up to us to
try and figure it out 'Spiritually'.

I was riding a bus to the airport going to a meditation retreat recently.
The bus went past a large garbage dump and next to it was a storage
facility. The ones that are popping up for folks who have way too much
crap in their attics, basements and garages. I thought it kind of ironic,
why pay to keep it in storage, just bring it right to the dump.

So, I am on the retreat and one of the talks is on renunciation, on how
we don't really understand it. And the teacher uses the imagery of all
the junk we collect and so require storage facilities for it.  I smiled
from ear to ear.

Here is a sweet cover you can roll with in your lincoln..

…happiness not come thru material things…


peace & love

e

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

 Ahh thanks for the reflection. Like the song :)

I paid less than $14,000 for my 01 Lincoln after not having a car for a whole year because I could not afford it but still living on my own, did not in any way pay a full price and got help from family, but its evidence of my materialism that I would pay full price if I had the money lol, and the fact I'm making monthly payments on something at all that I just drive when those monthly payments could probably go to something more worthy.

At the same time while I did not have a car for that year, I endured a lot of judgement and critical looks from people especially when walking beside the road with no sidewalk. Many suburban style cities or towns in the US are not even equipped for pedestrians. I thought of how unfortunate this is, when people in other nations walk many places. Then when I rode with my boyfriend who is African-American, and drives an older car we were harassed by police several times and I overheard people make fun of his car or wealthier people give suspicious looks just because he was a tall black male driving an old brown car. (And we live in the Southern US).  I talked about this experience in my blog I Think but took it off because it is just a negative. Needless to say we were searched and harassed by the cops once in a rude way when I was riding with my boyfriend in his old brown car, patted down beside the road, for no reason and received no ticket because they knew they were wrong. We should have reported them.

Thats true a lot of wealthy people are philanthropists, but I think non-materialism for me is as much about morality because I do reflect on that and the starving people of other countries but it is also about personal spiritual growth as well and what is healthy in balance.

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

And that pretty much gives you the cross section of “integral theory” on economics, Advait.

This group has gone thru most of the elements of this question before, resulting in statements of roughly these same positions, from roughly these same personality types.

Since there isn't really an integral theory of economics, what you are left with, is integral culture.

In general, integral culture is a microcosm of western academic culture, and it contains and reflects the concerns of that culture, which you can confirm or disprove for yourself by reviewing a few month's worth of posts here.

Both integral theory and integral culture have their limits, and getting insight into how to conduct your economic life as a young american in a problematic category (gay interracial southern is pretty darn problematic in our society. ;-} ) is arguably outside the current limits of integralism.

Despite that fact that your basic question is one of those near-universal questions which keep recurring.

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

I've been misunderstood on 2 points: I didn't say materialism is bad per se. I said that Advait might find a better balance and even find ways in which it was useful or better-directed as he matures. I might not have been clear on that. A well-developed aesthetic line would include seeing beauty and balance and craftsmanship as worthy things in their own right. But I don't think it would involve being a slave to brand names or staus-seeking excess.

Second, regardless of who we're talking about, in many ways, 20 years old is 20 years old. Some lines of development can only be developed over time, no matter how precocious the individual. Obviously, spiritual lines are wildly different. But other lines are far more predictable. No matter your IQ, you're not ready to be married at the age of 11, for example. Materialism in teenagers isn't exactly unusual, is it? It tends to be outgrown, in terms of being obesessive or unbalanced, which was my point.

I mean, I know you young guns take yourselves terribly seriously, but it's just not that big a deal.

As for materialism in general, it's rampant, of course. And now we have hideous crap like “The Secret” telling us we need only order what we want from a catalog of desires, and all will be well! This is the materialism we need to combat, not normal teenage “needing to fit in.”

Liz

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

Well I don't always think materialism is a bad thing, some people simply live at that level because that is what their level of success has granted them.

I am sure Ken Wilber lives a luxury lifestyle to an extent, which has made some wonder about the salaries at I-I I think, but he is a successful author and academic and many more things to us but that is his external place in general society.

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

Sorry if this became too personal of a thread, I was sincerely hoping for some more insights from various people.

 I think it is sadly surprising by how people did not respond, and did not want to delve into the topic of Materialism :(. It is all around us, and is very much a part of our society. It should be included in any spiritual discussion of living in society and being spiritual.

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

Sometimes, people just aren't in the mood. It doesn't mean anything when nobody responds. It's actually a real projection hook. It can also tell you more about yourself. Your own reaction wil tell you what you're overly attached to and so on.

I'll hazard a guess, though: most people are too busy financially struggling just to get by, to worry about their own materialism.

Liz

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

It should be included in any spiritual discussion of living in society and being spiritual.

Well, like I've been saying, economics is one of the weak spots of integral theory.

And, since you are choosing to use the word “spiritual”, I guess I have to add that spirituality is another of the weak spots of integral theory, ha ha ha.

How do you want to talk about materialism? The combination of the responses you've gotten, plus the lack of response the topic gets, tells you a little about how charged the topic can be.

Are you familiar with the theory of the problem of the commons? The idea is that when a resource is available to common access, there is an inherent and nearly unavoidable pressure to exploit the access as quickly as possible. In effect, with a commons, cheating is encouraged, and restraint is punished.

Material wealth and display and money is a kind of commons, available primarily to those in the dominant economies on this planet. There are rewards for gulping it down as fast as possible, and costs for exercising restraint.

And humans aren't conscious enough, on the average, to resist those rewards and punishments. To choose greater long term benefits over short term gains.

All of this is made possible, on the current scale, because of the stored calories of fossil carbon, particularly oil. It's always gone on, but the last century of oil use has expanded it to an extent never before imaginable on the planet.

What are your specific concerns about materialism? Where do you want to end up in your own personal economy?
 

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

Liz - my appologies.  I re-read your first post and you wern't saying it was bad universally.  I'd say we were probably in main agreement about the issue, I just felt the anti-materialism tack is so common, its limitations needed addressing briefly.

Advait - No need to appologise for going 'too personal', if you're comfortable to do it, then I applaud it.  Though I suppose its worth thinking of this pod as a real community.  If you were to walk into a real new community, where many people know each other very well, and quickly move into sharing some deep personal issues, people may not respond in depth, as they wouldn't know you very well - its the same here.  Perhaps its worth spending some time getting to know people, joining in on the discussions, and coming back to the issue, once the realtionship has more foundation.

Anyway, great to have you here, look forward to getting to know you better.


Ewan

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

Hi Advait,

Materialism is interesting from an AQAL perspective. There is of course the often mentioned value progression from orange to green to teal to turquoise, which will certainly determine your relationship to material goods and money in general. But there are also significant cultural values that go with you up the spiral; don't think for a moment that being Integral exempts you from these. The Western world in general, and the US in particular, are very materialistic cultures, organizing themselves into social circles and neighbourhoods where people have similar levels of income.

We all have to strike a balance between co-creating new modes of being in the world/culture and simply going with the flow. Only you can know where your growing edge in this area can be at this point in time.

It's certainly true, as has been said earlier in this thread, that orange is unreasonably preoccupied with material pursuits, and green unreasonably preoccupied with condemning these same pursuits (while in reality often being very materialistic themselves). From a teal and higher perspective I think that one important theme is that we can let go of of the deep guilt around material stuff that green brought upon the world. This is far from easy, as has been stated earlier in this thread. If you're a bit older chances are you spent a decade or more in green before moving on to integral (since the morphogenetic grooves were still shallow making progression hard), meaning that it can take years to stop monopolizing green values in your life. If you're a bit younger, chances are that you might still have one foot in green values and the other one in teal, therefore making the guilt around materialism very palpable indeed. Furthermore 20-somethings in Western countries who have academic parents have often been brought up by green parents and have only green friends, making it very hard indeed to start practicing predominantly teal values.

From teal and above, money isn't bad. Money means you have influence and if you trust yourself as a steward of that money, you can do a lot of good things with that money. Think about Bill Gates and how everything was forgiven (well. almost everything ;)) once we realized that he was going to use the bulk of his fortune for charity work.

Money in the hands of unhealthy orange and below is disastrous for the world, whereas money in the hands of healthy teal and above is a true blessing for life on this earth. Not to mention that it is perfectly OK to have some fun using money too!

Peace,
Pelle

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

Beautifully articulated Pelle.

Money is just another kind of energy really.

Re: Combating Materialism in Myself and Society

I sort of wished I poised this as a conversational topic rather than being personal as well.

My main thoughts were just that we contemplate other things in pods, and in these communities. Spiritual people discuss all sorts of Integral approaches to family to everything, and yet there is little discussion in spiritual or Integral or other circles about Materialism which permeates our society.

Materialism in my view, can be looked at in all quadrants AQAL and Interal perspective, can be out of balance in society as well as within a person. So as you said many Greens are materialistic without realizing it, and that is because in the the third and fourth materialism may be out of balance.

Pelle.Thank you for the extensive response.