Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

I just found out about an intriguing (free) audio interview with Robert, check it out:

Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Great resources. Talking with Robert for the first time on the phone today gave me a bit of a taste of his warmth and presence. I really look forward to hearing from you guys what you think about the Friend Zone and the other RAM stuff.

Namaste,

Nicole

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Nicole: Great resources. Talking with Robert for the first time on the phone today gave me a bit of a taste of his warmth and presence. I really look forward to hearing from you guys what you think about the Friend Zone and the other RAM stuff.

~

Glad you touched base with Robert, Nicole.  Good luck with the Potential Robert Masters Workshop, Montreal, Quebec summer ish 08 you're planning.  Montreal really needs the help!  lol - actually I spent a couple of days in Montreal quite some time ago and loved it, great city.  It would be so cool if RAM workshop manifests there.

I have yet to listen to the talk by Robert, will post here when I do. BTW Robert sometimes does workshops specifically for singles, and also men-only workshops on occasion; also some of the material in his latest book Transformation Through Intimacy: the Journey Toward Mature Monogamy is aimed towards singles seeking partners.

spiral out,
Arthur

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

thanks arthur

still waiting for you to get back to me with your tips on how to help along the manifesting of the Montreal RAM event!

(arthur flinches as heavy hint falls on his toe)

lol

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Nicole: thanks arthur

still waiting for you to get back to me with your tips on how to help along the manifesting of the Montreal RAM event!

(arthur flinches as heavy hint falls on his toe)

~

OW!  Geez, Nicole, I've had a lot of stuff fall on my toes, in my lap, and various other body parts lately - an embarrassment of (sadly non-monetary) riches - and my PM's have gotten a little backed up as a result.  Please stand by, and a Noospheric Agent will assist you shortly.

I'll continue this in PM format Real Soon Now, but one piece of advice I have is to talk with Linda, who organized a RAM retreat in Boston which just ended and was highly successful.  I'll cc you the PM's I sent her when she and I were discussing that, and Linda had some great ideas of her own which I'm sure she'd be happy to share.  :)

Anybody else listened to this dialog?  I listened to it last night, and enjoyed it - although I was multitasking and will listen to it again with more attention soonish. (I also looked around the Falling Fruit website in general, and there are a lot of talks there that sound interesting, particularly in the Buddhist Geeks section.)

spiral out,
Arthur

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

thanks - arthur! I PMd Linda.

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

'Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone'?
 Is very very interesting to listen to for men, & women alike. I liked it so much I even took some notes. ;) One can never stop learning especially in these more intimate spheres of life.
– I liked his techniques for getting men to experience their 'primal maleness' (listen 'n' learn) - and found it very clear & inspirational. Not to mention how RAM's language has just cracked me up, he doesn't mince his words does he: 'No relief apart from the occasional ejaculation. Afraid to love his spine & balls' are comments that spring to mind. Check out the context for yourselves. Hang on, I just need to wash my mouth out with soap. Yum, done. ;)

It's no less than educational to hear a switched on male therapist talk about about how men can develop their emotional literacy. He comes across as a very sincere teacher, I'd be interested to hear what a few 'geezers' (cockney slang: Men) thought about this interview?

I liked the interviewers (Tripp Lanier) quote, 'The body is not just a place to dump our groceries.' - when talking about embodying the whole of the body, not just the head etc..

Lisa

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Hi Lisaji

As a geezer :) I enjoyed this interview and I think Falling Fruit are doing us all a service by offering this series of interviews. There's some really good stuff in there.

If you enjoyed RAM's use of “meaty” language here, then you may well enjoy David Deida's stuff even more. In comparison, what RAM was saying felt somewhat familiar to me and even a bit tame.

For me Deida is saying stuff that's further developed than RAM in terms of being really challenging and direct . ( I know  that for some people, Deida goes too far in this direction, sometimes becoming too direct or harsh or confrontational, but it works for me :-)

All The Best

James

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Excellent points, Pelle. There are differences between Deida and Masters, but it is, to a certain extent, apples and oranges. That said, I think Deida is highly focused on one aspect of sexuality and also overgeneralizes about men and women, male and female energies. If what he says reasonates (and it does with me, I have several of his books and other media) then it works for you. But I have several friends who are completely turned off by his “directness” and they see his approach as offensively narrow. He himself tells people to take what they will from his teachings and leave it if it doesn't work for you. His interest is in people awakening, not in following him necessarily. Great signs, and puts my bullshit detector at ease.

Trust me, James, there's nothing tame about what happens with Robert in a workshop. And you don't have to mortgage your house to get in, as you do with Deida. I had one friend say she got more out of one workshop with Robert than all her years with a regular therapist.

Finally, as Robert himself says, “all comparisons are odious.” I really had to sit with that one for awhile. All comparisons? Really? It's a simple statement, but it packs a lot of power.

Liz

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Hi Pelle and Liz

Pelle, thanks so much for these pertinent distinctions. I find them really helpful. I'm hoping to join one of Robert's UK workshops this year as well as attend a men's group based on Deida's work. I agree it's more healthy to keep working on both areas.

Liz, yes Deida puts my BS detector at rest too. It's great that working with RAM is more affordable than with Deida - I recently checked out prices for attending a Deida course in the US and nearly choked on my muesli when I saw the price!

I only used the word “tame” with regard to the interview that Lisaji was commenting on. I get the feeling from what I have read of his other writings that Robert also gets really deep - doesn't he also put a kind of rider on his publicity along the lines of “this workshop is not for the faint hearted”. Excellent!

Can you expand on what you think Robert means by “all comparisons are odious”?

James

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Here's an example Robert gives of a workshop session, from his essay Into the Heart of Fear, which may give an idea of the depth of his work:

~~~

Lorraine (in a group that I’m leading) is talking casually about what she has been ”going through.” This is my first encounter with her. The more she talks, the less confident she becomes. Soon, she’s saying how scared she sometimes gets, and how close, how very close, she has come to killing herself, sometimes holding a rifle to her head. Everyone is very still. Her right eye starts to widen and drift a little, losing focus.

I sense that she is far, far more terrified than she is showing. Though she is young and healthy-looking, she appears extremely fragile now, as if she is about to be swallowed up by something enormous. Her features are beginning to swim and eddy in my vision; the room is quickly shedding its familiarity. There’s a long pause, and then I ask her what she sees.

Blackness, she whispers. No faces, no room, nobody, just blackness. I feel very connected to her in the enormity of her terror, and also in her terror of her terror. No longer can she speak; her eyes are rolling with horror.

I have her interlace fingers with me. She grips very hard, and starts to scream, wildly but not fully – she’s not so much expressing her madness as trying to get away from it. She is so, so afraid. The intensity is escalating. Quickly, I help her roll onto her back, knees up. She is shaking violently, and is fighting it. Guided by the half-dammed currents of the forces surfacing in her, I work with her body and breath, rapidly but not-too-rapidly loosening her diaphragm, her belly and solar plexus, her neck and jaw. There is no map for this, no preset somatic sequence or protocol.

Primal terror, trust, intuition, awareness, spawning through their meeting and mingling fitting directions and actions.

Now the energy, less and less an “it,” is not contained anywhere in particular. Lorraine is no longer “just” Lorraine, but is raw aliveness bursting with presence. Her screaming, now full-bodied, gives me gooseflesh and rips into my heart. I ask the group to breathe more deeply, to come closer to us and to each other.

Her terror is, it seems to me, not only hers, but mine as well, and all of ours. Terror of what? For her, extreme danger, seemingly represented by an all-consuming blackness, immeasurable and timeless darkness, forever edgeless.

I ask her to open her eyes. She is obviously still scared, but now not so overwhelmingly. Look into my eyes, I say, and let the terror, the darkness, the craziness, whatever it is, come out through your eyes, your throat, your whole body, but keep eye contact with me. As she does so, her expression changes dramatically.

No longer is she a terrified young woman looking at me, but something much, much older and darker, streaming with enormous power, pouring into me. Pouring and pouring, pouring into and through me. An avalanche of energy. Now it’s no longer an “it” but only reclaimed her. And reclaimed us. This lasts for perhaps two minutes.

She sits up and I hold her while she cries and cries. Many in the group are also crying. Gradually, she settles into a deeply relaxed, very loving state, a kind of “second” innocence that gives her faith in her capacity to continue her healing.

(Note: I don’t recommend making such catharsis a goal, especially so soon, but there are times – as with Lorraine – which demand responses that both energetically match and take care of what is being presented. Sometimes a particular opening with someone may necessitate many months of preparation, whereas at other times, to delay such an opening for even one session would be a disservice to that person.)

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Wow - thanks Arthur.

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Hi, James! I suspect you'd really get into a meaty session with Robert, you sound so open.

The comparison remark was made by Robert, and as Arthur is the one who knows where all of the quotes are, I'll let him find it, if he feels so moved (Arthur's indexed a couple of Robert's books and has read most of what RAM's written, as well as done more work with him than I have.)

I'll give a stab at an explanation. Essentially, anything you compare about yourself to another is going to be flawed. There will always be something “better” or “worse” about another person, relationship, etc., and it really doesn't help any to make comparisons. We have to deal with what is, and not what we'd like to be or what we're planning on, etc.

Well, that's a fairly lame explanation, as the idea in my head seems not to have made it to the screen, but I'm guessing you already know what I'm talking about anyway.

Liz

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

As I recall, Robert remarked that “all comparisons are odious” during a men's workshop in response to me, well, making comparisons.  :)

spirals,
Arthur

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Thanks Liz

I like to think of myself as open - but I'm also pretty sure that I'd end up a gibbering wreck at some point if / when I ever do an intensive session with him. But then, I believe that's the idea! :-)

Like Jane says below - do the Heart work. Doesn't matter what stage you think you're at, there's always plenty to be working on there!


Hi Arthur

So it was you :-)

Was Robert's comment helpful? Out of the context it was delivered in, the idea that “all comparisons are odious” doesn't make sense at all to me.

James

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Great discussion, and the RAM audio clips are great too - I prefer them to the IN dialogues.

Pelle, those are useful and real differences that you draw out between RAM and Deida.  I think there is also a difference in the 'level' at which they teach.  I'ive never been on a workshop with either, but I've listened to countless recordings of Deida's workshops and feel I have a pretty good understanding of his teaching strategy.  I am less clued in with RAM, but that will ahve chnaged in a couple of weeks after I spend 3 dyas with the man.

I think while both of them are very very integral in themselves, and are both incredible gifted and importnat teachers (in the widest sense), I think Deida is aiming his teachings at a higher developmental level than RAM.  I'm sure RAM is capable of teaching at those higher levels too, but with his therapeuitc emphasis, I get the impression that his workshops are aimed at people wherever they may be at - they are about deep explorationa nd emotional work. 

Deida is all about 3rd stage, which is some kind of amalgomation of 3rd tier tantric spirituality and 2nd tier responsibility.  Deida simply dosn't put up with people being 1st tier (his 1st and 2nd stage) in his workshop, he very directly challenges people to embody third stage.  Which can also be a stumbling block for people who simply arn't there.  I understand one of Ken's critisisms of him is that his work can apply to 'state chasers' a lot - people who like being in 3rd stage states, but who are no where near ready to develop into them stably.  RAM does not seem to have as stronger goal in terms of states/stages that he wants people to embody through his workshops - they are more about deep work wherever they are at.

This is my rudimentary understanding at this point anyway, and I'd be interested to hear from those who ahve more experience of RAM about if they think that is accurate.


Ewan

P.S. James - which workshop are you thinking of attending - they both ahve spaces left as I understand.

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Hi Ewan

I'm in touch with both Jon re. the Manchester event and Steve re. the London event. Manchester's nearer for me but I may be working in south east a lot in April.

I'm currently chasing confirmations re. music work so that I can make a definite booking on one of them, if there are still places left!

How about you - Manchester's closer for you too right?

Cheers, James

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

What I have heard Robert say in some context related to this discussion is “Do the heart work.”   I think this is about recognizing that we all must turn to the very thing we might most want to bypass…..and it doesn't matters what stage or state anybody might be in…. “do the heart work'……I totally agree with him regarding this….and spending time in a group with him is pretty sure to move nearly anyone in a place of stuckness to a place of opening….. 

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Hi James,

I didn't know there was one in London.  Hes doing an evening with the London Integral Circle that I know about, what else is going on?  I'm going down to the one at Bawdsley Manor in Suffolk, it was announced before Jon arranged the Manchester one, and I'd already booked my place.  Also, I seem to about half the people on it which will be fun….or will it!? ;)


Ewan

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Ewan:Also, I seem to about half the people on it which will be fun….or will it!? ;)

Hmmm!

Just rteading all the comments and wondering the same thing - there's something 'safer' about not knowing anybody on a workshop.
Eek now I'm getting really scared.

Juliee

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

You can always check Robert's Schedule for the latest workshop locations.  He's really getting around these days - he even has a workshop in Thailand next year, lucky bastard.  :)  And you could ask to go on his mailing list if you're not already on it- contact him at info@robertmasters.com - to receive updates via email.

spirals,
Arthur

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Juliee, Don't be too scared…there is something beautiful about seeing how human each and every one of us really is…. I hope you all have a great time, and report back!  I am pretty sure I am going to Thailand in January… Maybe that can be the next Integral Gathering spot.

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Jane,
…going to Thailand in January… Maybe that can be the next Integral Gathering spot.

It's probable I'll be in Thailand in early January'09. We have space enough to host folks in either Chiang Mai or Chiang Rai (in the north).

Kerry

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Wow, maybe it is a possibility then!  How long are you in Thailand for?

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Yeah, Juliee, it's not a scary kinda thing. It's more of a pulling-off-a-scab kinda thing. Hurts and feels good, too. I'm a complete wimp and I do fine. He never pushes anyone further than they can go, which I admire and respect tremendously.

Liz

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Juliee: Just rteading all the comments and wondering the same thing - there's something 'safer' about not knowing anybody on a workshop.
Eek now I'm getting really scared.

~

I know the feeling.  It's sort of like the anonymity of a city crowd.  But what I've found in practice is that it's great doing work with people you already know.  When we had the gathering in Vancouver in 2006, many of the people in the workshop already knew each other to various degrees on and off-line.  It definitely added something to the mix, in my experience; the workshop deepened and enriched pre-existing friendships, and pre-existing relationships helped deepen the workshop more quickly. 

Here's a relevant snippet from the RAM Q&A, Part 19:

Arthur/adastra: Robert, what are your impressions of the Integral Naked workshop compared to other workshops you've done? Do you feel that everyone knowing each other at the beginning made a difference? Many of us went back for more sessions afterward and also continued to process everything that came up on Saturday; indeed the entire week felt like a transformative workshop. Do you feel that the further individual sessions combined with the ongoing social interactions that week synergistically facilitated people's growth? (This is very much my personal impression.) If we decided to have another such workshop in future gatherings, is there any advice you'd offer based on the experience of this one?

Robert: The Integral Naked workshop was not fundamentally different than my other groups, but the already-present connections between the participants made the work done all the richer. I was reminded of the closeness of participants in my training programs who so obviously enjoy seeing each other again at each succeeding weekend module.

You ask if I “feel that the further individual sessions combined with the ongoing social interactions that week synergistically facilitated people's growth?” My answer is a resounding yes!

You also ask “If we decided to have another such workshop in future gatherings, is there any advice you'd offer based on the experience of this one?” Come prepared to do deep work, and to deepen your bonds with the others in the group. And, if at all possible, do some work with me prior to the group.

~~~

I also find I'm glad when I see people in workshops that have been in previous workshops.

So, don't worry - it'll be fine.  :)

By the way, when Robert suggests doing some work with him prior to the group (helpful but not essential), he does phone sessions.  I know people who did phone work with him prior to a workshop, with good results.

spiral out,
Arthur

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Hey Ewan,Julee and (maybe james) im doing the Bawdsey manor one too with my wife and a friend so thats even worse i cant get away with shit !
Really looking forward to meeting and working with you guys.
Hes not doing a mixed workshop in London,i think James was referring to Bawdsey manor as “the London one”  and the Manchester one is cancelled now.
Hes speaking at Integral circle ,hes working with my mens group and doing a 2 day Womens workshop in london and doing private sessions all day 12th and 13th April In Muswell Hill North London which are available for booking via diane at his web site.

Arthur thanks so much again for putting me on to Robert s work and forgive me for pulling out of USA workshop!

Steve

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Looking forward to meeting you, your wife and your friend (names? :))) at Bawdsley.

Juliee

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Jane, Liz, Arthur (did I miss anyone?)

Thanks for your kind words. I think the fear is a general one; I'm frightened to death of breaking apart and frightened to death of not breaking apart.

I had a dream last night which I think says it all. I am walking along a rickety jungle bridge over a wild, rocky ,rushing river with two of my friends behind me. As I walk the bridge gets more rickety and scary and then sort of peters out, with thin planks of decaying wood clinging to either side of a narrow ravine and the middle of the bridge/now platform just disintigrated. I have a choice; drop down into the rushing water or go back along the swaying, breaking up remains of the platform behind me. I'm too scared to even turn around let alone walk all that way back  :OOO

Juliee

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

just think what RAM could do with that dream! this is so exciting… hang in there, you will find gold!

love,

nicole

Re: Robert Augustus Masters: Are you Stuck in the Friend Zone?

Juliee,