Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar

Has anyone here been participating in The Great Integral Awakening teleseminar?  If you've been following it (I tuned in two weeks ago to listen to Ken speak), I'd be interested in discussing it here as it unfolds.

For those who are unfamiliar with the event, here's the letter that Terry Patten sent out:

Hello,

I was delighted to recently receive an invitation from my colleague Craig Hamilton to participate in what I see as a leading-edge endeavor to evolve our understanding of spirituality in the 21st century.

The Great Integral Awakening: Pioneering a New Spiritual Path is a FREE online teleseminar series where you can interact with today’s leading Integral visionaries—including Ken Wilber, Diane Hamilton, Andrew Cohen, Marc Gafni, Don Beck, Michael Murphy, Genpo Roshi, and, of course, yours truly—in an in-depth exploration of the next stage in humanity’s spiritual development.

Over the next three months, a group will gather each week online and by conference call to explore the burning questions facing all of us who aspire to live an authentic, integrally informed spiritual life in our increasingly chaotic, fast-paced world.

Questions like:

• How does the spiritual path need to evolve to meet the evolutionary challenges and opportunities of our time?

• How can we make sure our own spiritual path and practice is “integral” and informed by both the timeless wisdom of Spirit and an up-to-date understanding of the human condition?

• What does it mean to live a life of passionate evolutionary engagement that integrates our deep longing for spiritual transformation and our desire to improve the world?

• How can we come together with other evolutionaries to begin to create microcosms of evolutionary culture?

• How can we engage our spiritual practice not just as a path to personal growth but as a contribution to the further evolution of humanity, life, and consciousness?

• What can we do to help accelerate the emergence of integral consciousness on Earth?

Each event will explore this set of questions from a unique angle. The discovery of evolution is giving birth to an entirely new spiritual impulse—as well as a new framework for engaging in spiritual practice. Some interviews will ask how the great traditions of the past can be brought up to date and kept relevant to a rapidly changing, increasingly complex world. Some will explore some of the new, integral forms that spirituality is taking, from the emergence of new paths of self-inquiry to the birth of collective enlightenment. These conversations will consider the vital role each of us can now play in creating a more integral—and more enlightened—future for humanity.

There is no charge to participate. All of us who are participating have volunteered our time so that as many of us as possible can come together for this FREE online conversation at the leading edge of Integral consciousness.

CLICK HERE to learn more and register today.

To our evolution,

Terry Patten
www.integralheart.com

Re: Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar

Hi Bruce
I missed the Michael Murphy one, but did listen to the Ken one live. I understand they can be accessed later, I have been away for a week so haven't had time yet.

I love the idea, I have to admit I'm among the first to moan at outrageous fees and limited access to things. This time they really have excelled themselves.

I found the online broadcast very sticky and was losing content every time it buffered, so I used the phone access number. Even from the UK, via skype, it only cost a few pennies for the whole session. The connection was clear and the line only dropped once in about 90 minutes.

I have to admit that while I sent a typed question, I got cold feet about putting a live one, so didn't try that. I did wonder how many people I “know” were out there at the same time. Oh and more points because the timing was such that I didn't have to stay up till 4am. Normally the time difference is enough to exclude me from anything American happening in real time.

I'll be listening in on Saturday too, I'm looking forward to hearing the speakers I don't know much about.

Liz

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Hi, Liz, I actually missed both of the talks so far, but I went back and listened to the recordings afterwards.  I noticed how frail Wilber's voice sounded at the beginning of his talk – that touched me.  I found I wasn't very excited by the content, mostly because it wasn't anything new.  But I plan on continuing to listen, and hopefully will catch it live next time and maybe submit a question (if I also don't get cold feet!).

See you there… :-)

Best wishes,

B.

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I registered and will participate. I might even break down and join the Facebook discussion group…..  8000 people and more every day, that's a good crowd!!!

I agree, it's fantastic so many people are making it possible for this to be free.

As an excuse to schmooze with like-minded folks, I can get enthused about stuff like this that is organized around big high-sounding questions, but there is some lack of resonance in me with the questions. Perhaps someone can help me identify what that is. All I can get to introspectively so far is that I sense under the questions the assuming of some problem that I don't assume is a problem. Maybe something about my trusting the Kosmic evolutionary process, and they seem to think a lot of ego-effort is needed?????

I will continue introspecting about it. Does anyone have any sense of what I might be trying to point to??

Thanks, Bruce, for calling this to our attention. As I said, you are bringing lots of good stuff here to the IP, and creating quality interactions!!!

Hugs, OM Bastet

Re: Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar

Hi, OM!  I also feel a lack of resonance, and it's hard for me to describe it, too, or to feel totally clear about what it is that feels off.  And I'm a bit reluctant to express this, because I fear that I'll offend a lot of people.

That said, let me just share some thoughts.  That organization seems very orange to me – not in the content of their subject matter, but the structures through which they approach it.  What's more, their talk about the nondual seems to be coming from a dualistic perspective.  I sense a lot of incongruity, and it makes me uncomfortable.

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I signed up but haven't listened to anything yet. I don't know as much as you do about the organization itself (just one?) Tely, and I haven't heard their talk about the nondual.

IMO Orange is perfectly suitable for some organizations, depending on their purpose. I'd have to see whether the orange was serving the purpose or hindering it, healthy or unhealthy orange. Does that make sense? Maybe you are responding to something more specific about them?

All talk about the nondual is dualistic, but some is more dualistic than others….. 

Hey, we're not here to not offend a lot of people. Thanks for the trust involved in sharing that fear. Of course, I bite my tongue a lot, too, so I'm not preaching at you, but at myself!

My lack of resonance was specifically about the content description of the teleseminar, the big questions it is supposed to be dealing with. We'll see what I think after I listen to some of the seminars.

Anyone else want to chime in about this??

Blessings, OM

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Hi, Tely, I'd like to hear more about what you're seeing or reacting to – though I understand it may be something you can't yet quite put your finger on.  For me, since Integral began to take a turn towards presenting itself as a unique religion as well as a map of existing traditions (something I commented on years ago in my “Integral Church of AQAL” thread), I've felt some discomfort with the material – or that part of the Integral material.  In general, I support efforts to chart new spiritual paths (that's what my IPS pod is about, in part), but the language and presentation of “Integral as religion” has tended to put me off.  More of a hyped up Bill Harris/Tony Robbins flavor, perhaps, than a Krishnamurti or Almaas one, for instance.  And the close association with Cohen has continually been a sticking point for me…

OM, thank you for your feedback.  I'd like to hear your thoughts after you've had a chance to listen to the seminars.  I haven't yet listened to the one that was presented this weekend, but I may do so this evening.  From what I've heard so far, I've found a lot of it to be generally repetitive of perspectives offered previously in many other places – Integral Naked, Integral Life, WIE, etc.  It seems like this may be mostly an “outreach” or evangelical effort, to attract new blood to the flock …

But I don't want to offer only critical remarks, since there have been some good points made in the talks I've heard.  I'll come back with something more positive in my next post…

Best wishes,

B.

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Bruce, unfortunately, I can't really articulate my thoughts about this much more thoroughly right now.  In part, because it's often hard to translate what's in my mind into words, and this is one of those situations.  Of course, I could try, but there's also the issue that I feel a little skittish about attempting to do so in public, since this is such a controversial subject in the Integral community.  It would be like critiquing Jesus in a Christian community when I don't even have my thoughts clearly articulated – bad move.  Such a heretic I am!
That said, I absolutely agree with your assessment.  And I envy your facility with words and concepts!

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Listening to Andrew's talk yesterday, I was struck by his emphasis on the divine sense of urgency to evolve. A more traditional view sees our 'kosmic' activity as play – as divine play. I started wondering about this in the context of evolution, time, and the scope of the context considered. If you look at things from a relatively narrow frame, I can understand the sense of urgency Andrew describes – but to me it seems tied to very immediate concerns. In the larger view – say, the view which sees that our present universe is going to come to an end (say, via heat death) and all the creatures at the leading edge of the evolution of form will perish – then I wonder about this sense of urgency. Does it make sense? If you expand the frame further, to a bubble-verse view of endless big bangs and cosmic collapses or dissolutions, then to me the metaphor of Lila, play, seems more appropriate. “Urgency” may be one way of playing, but in this context it doesn't carry (to me) the same dire, do-it-at-all-costs ambitious tone that Andrew communicated in his talk today.

What do you think?

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Bruce, I tend to lila myself, or for a 50% part of me.  As to urgency, I think I can go this far: if I look inside myself, I see that I really have no choice but to evolve.  Evolution—movement—is both what I am and what I want at some core reach of my being.  The seeming choiceless necessity of my-moving-as-evolving can perhaps translate into felt urgency, or so I can experience it, and in this sense: I really don't want anything else at all.  It is perhaps that to which Cohen is speaking, coupled with the fair observation that at some level of development a person must engage choice to propel the evolutionary process.  That's Cohen's basic teaching in a nutshell.

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Bruce, I agree with you.  This sense of doingness and achievement around evolution and/or enlightenment is part of what I think is orange in this organization.  It doesn't sit well with me.  Of course, another reason for the urgency may just be that Andrew urgently needs a yacht.  ;-)

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He's got, what did he say, 270 people attending part 2 of his Italy retreat!  How much does that retreat cost?  Just a sec ….

Euro1900 = US$2700.  Assume generously $150 per night room and board x 11 nights = $1650 = $1050 to Enlightennext per person = $283,000 total.  If the per night real cost is OTOH $100 or less, well …

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:-)  Well, yes, now that you mention it, there's something about Andrew that raises red flags for me.

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Yes, I hear you.  In other audios I've heard, when Cohen asks questions, which tend to be leading questions, I hear a distinct undertone of 'you better be thinking this is the answer.'  Peoples' responses tend to pander and say 'yes, that's exactly what I was thinking.'  It's quite a circus of Cohen verbally slapping people who want to be verbally slapped, IOW the perfect relationship.

Pelle's first response in that thread gave me a chuckle.

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Excellent points to ponder, Bruce and Tom. I don't know of any profound thinker/teacher these days who does not say we MUST do this or that NOW because we face imminent danger of extinction as a species or destruction of all life on the planet. Even KW brings in this time-urgency perspectives in his Introductions, as I recall. 

So in a way, it's a kind of “GREEN” thing. 

But I agree with you, in the grand scheme of a series of Big Bangs and universes with limited lifespan (which I too hold as the Biggest Picture,) the fate of one species and one planet in one universe is not so urgent. From the perspective of the One Being, everything is of equal value as experience. 

However, I agree with a lot that Tom expressed, and if this universe in us as us is feeling urgent right now about something, then so be it, that is what is arising and we can accept that and decide whether we'll work with it or not, and either choice is an arising; the Flow is inescapable. Nothing happens outside of evolution, not our conscious choices to help it along consciously, or not. Either choice is part of the evolutionary process, IOW.

Like Tom, I find it most conducive to my quality of life, to cooperate consciously with “what I am and what I want.” Life is easier and more enjoyable that way, LOL !!!!!

So I would opt for both the vastest perspective and the acceptance of any urgency that arises in me. Aren't Lilas more engaging when something seems to be at stake? And in one arena, one level of reality, there is indeed something at stake, so we play that way. Adds spice, adds passion. However, in that description I am not demeaning or dismissing the suffering that could be increased or decreased by our choices. We really care about that, all of us.

Is that sense of urgency “divine?” Hmmmm. Well if Cohen thinks he is adding some authority or credibility to his argument that something is urgent, by attributing it to divine or evolution, then I don't buy that BLUE move. As I see it, if evolution is giving us a sense of urgency, then we have it. That's authority enough. Nothing is NOT divine !!!

But I haven't listened to the seminar yet, and I am not disagreeing with anything you said, just thinking out loud about the topic based on your interesting views and Tom's interesting views.

Blessings, 
OM Bastet

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Tom and OM, thanks for your thoughts.  If either of you get a chance to listen to Cohen's broadcast, I'd like to hear your reactions afterwards.  I can relate to the mix of urgency and play both of you describe.  I didn't pick up on any 'play,' though, in Cohen's message – at least not the 40 minutes or so that I listened to.  He seemed to insist that there is an absolute, divine urgency to 'get somewhere else, right now' – not for the sake of meeting specific needs or solving current problems, but in an absolute sense, that the whole “point” of spirituality is to get to the next level, and then the next, and then the next.  The way he discussed this struck me as unbalanced and a sort of fetishizing of the new, the better.  Not the same open, creative sense I get, for instance, when I contemplate TSK's notion of living from the future – the 'future infinitive' – but more of a narrow drivenness or ambition in spiritual drag.

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Hi Bruce, I've listened to the webcast.  Cohen doesn't play!  He's said in other contexts a person has to choose between being and becoming, and he chooses becoming.  I personally think there's a 'hey, look at me' factor in that, or an institution promotion factor, or both.  It's tough staying on top of the new age crowd!  And you know how the masses prefer a simpler, here's-the-truth presentation, hey?  It's also why Wilber's in the new age section of book stores.

Apart from that aspect, which I tend to interpret as you and simply disregard (for my own personal purposes, but not theoretically), I do rather enjoy Cohen's flat out responsibility message.  You are what you do and do what you choose …  I think I've been on that square since I read Otto Rank in my 20s (did my Master's thesis on Rank).

And as to other of Cohen's flourishes, I tend to disregard them if they jar me, which most of them do at some more or less subtle level depending on the day.  Again, its the self-responsibility thing I go in for.  Oh, and one other thing, I like that he moves beyond emptiness.  Jesus!  Cough!

Hi Om, nice to hear your thoughts also.

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I resonate with Bruce about the absurdity of urgency to evolve.
Actually I feel uncomfortable about the idea of urgency almost everywhere, when it appears in spiritual context.
Many spiritual teachers express urgency in their talks to people. I tend to think this is because of their own fear of not getting enough active following without. To me urgency here means acting out the teacher's own fears of losing their followers, or it is an effort to activate people through arising their fear. Why not instead penetrate the feeling of urgency and see what is hiding behind it? The answer may be that you don't create a big following that way.

In Finnish there is a saying about urgency, the direct translation of which goes like this : “By urgency you manage to create mainly arsehole brats. ” (Instead of the noun arsehole there should be a corresponding adjective, but I couldn't find any in English.)
Evolving is a powerful basic force in life. It unfolds very efficiently and smoothly, if you don't resist it through your busy acting out, and other defenses. Calm awareness of one's difficult emotions and thought patterns is a powerful tool in activating evolving.

I have not listened to the teleseminar. I have instead been enjoying fully the beauty and warmth of the summer here in the North, and been seeing friends and family. I just skimed through this thread, and got captivated by this rare discussion about urgency.

Irmeli

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Irmeli, your quote is funny, and it makes me think of a saying that, according to one of my clients, is used in Al-Anon:  “If it's important, it's not urgent.”

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Irmeli
“arsehole brats.  (Instead of the noun arsehole there should be a corresponding adjective, but I couldn't find any in English.)”
ha! ha!  I had a friend who invented the word “assholian” for just this purpose… it has a lovely sound to it, and it is easy to slip into conversation, convey the sentiment and still have anyone wondering if it is really a word. 
Jane

Re: Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar

The adjective 'assholian' is in frequent use in Finnish. Here too it has akind of friendly sound to it.

Irmeli

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I love the sound of this word 'assholian'. Deep laughter…I can hear our wonderful Governor of California pronoucing in strong Austrian accent. Hilarious. {;-)
Thanks Jane/Irmeli
Doug

Re: Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar

Dang, I finally went to listen to the Cohen seminar, and after 10 minutes it still says Video loading….. :(  And I'm on DSL with good video capability!! Will try again via another link some other time, but perhaps I am locked out of this particular Teleseminar… grumble.

My 2 cents on the last comments: I think evolution or the Kosmos does express itself as a sense of urgency, because some people feel a sense of urgency, and there is nothing which IS which is not an expression of evolution or the Kosmos.

So, if that question is settled, as I see it the question REALLY is, What's the downstream from that sense, and do we want those results? And in assessing that, we might seek to find the upstream too, whether we think there is some false belief or illusion (and thus fear) involved in producing the sense of urgency.

But it's all “lila,” we can't say evolution never feels urgent to evolve. That would IMO be another version of “There is something outside of everything.” “There is something which exists which is not part of the One Being.”

Blessings, OM

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I found a link to an audio in one of the emails, and am now listening to the Cohen talk. About 10 minutes into it; this is the first time I have heard him talk, and I've never read anything except his chats with KW. 

I have two impressions so far. First, from his languaging, I begin to entertain the notion that possibly he is speaking from concepts about the higher spiritual states, not first-hand experience of them, and not from a reality of nonduality either. One example of that languaging is the times, plural, he refers to the Void as “part of us.” I just don't see anyone who has really experienced it referring to it that way, at least not unless they were talking to a really really mass consciousness audience, which this isn't.

OTOH, some of his languaging is good “pointing” but could be done on the basis of a good conceptual grasp of spiritual teachings.

Second, I don't detect anything “postmodern” in his thinking, from what I have heard so far. By that I mean, any sense of the constructed nature of our experience. 

Will get back when I'm done with the listening.

Blessings, OM

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I just listened to Cohen's presentation absent-mindedly while simultaneously working on something else. Generally I liked the talk.
However there was something especially regarding the issue of urgency I would like to comment. But first I have to find time to listen to the talk in a more focused way, and then write my comments down. Some juicy ideas came to my mind, so I propably soon will find the needed time.
When reading Cohen's writings I often agree with a lot with what he says, especially with his emphasis on evolutionary spirituality and enlightenment, but there are aspects that create a clear cognitive dissonance in me. This happened again here.

Irmeli

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Here are some of my thoughts regarding Andrew Cohen's talk at the teleseminar. I'm focusing here on his view of 'ecstatic urgency' as the driving force of evolution.

First I want to say that I appreciate the work Andrew Cohen is doing, and his approach to spirituality that appreciates life and evolving. I also like to read his magazine Enlightennext, and consider it to be of good quality.

Some of Cohen's ideas create a clear cognitive dissonance in me; but this is nothing unusual for me. I have a critical,  and doubting mindset, and I have a strong tendency to question  the validity of religious and spiritual doctrines. Hence parts of almost every spiritual teacher's teaching activate critical doubts in me. Ken Wilber is a rare exception for me in this sense.

I feel quite doubtful of Cohen's idea of 'ecstatic urgency' as the primary creative impulse of God, and the driving force beyond creation.

If I feel into my own experience of urgency, I cannot perceive this impulse to have helped me to evolve. Fear gives rise to the feeling of urgency. Sometimes this fear is easy to recognize, and the feeling of urgency maybe useful to act upon. During  summertime I cycle a lot in nature. During these tours sometimes I perceive a thunderstorm approaching fast. Then I feel urgency to find shelter. I may also feel urgency in issues that I interpret to be related to shadow issues. this type of feeling of urgency is actually more common to me that the former. In this case I try to restrain from acting upon this impulse. I try to contain it, and feel fully into this urgency. In neither of these cases can I perceive an evolutionary impulse.

When I look at urgency in historical context, and what it has created, I see a lot of violence and destruction. For many past and present rulers the manipulation of the feeling of urgency has been an effective means to stay in power. Also many  religions have been riding on this. This has been a method for the rulers to maintain and even strengthen their power over people.

Let's look at a typical historical situation. Inside a tribe or nation the population has been increasing. At some point a situation arises where many young men cannot find a way to make a living, or cannot establish for themselves a useful contribution in the tribe. These men become restless, and start to feel unsatisfied with the king, and start to plan overthrowing him. Usually the king senses this restlessness in its early states, and starts to create a feeling of threat in his people in form an external enemy, and a feeling of urgency to defeat the enemy. And so a war gets initiated. Many people die in this war, and a lot of suffering ensues. However at some point the war ends. There is no more an excess of rebellious young men, and there is a lot of work to do in form of rebuilding what has got destructed. And most importantly the king has been able to stay in power.The effect has not been the emergence of a new and more encompassing structure in the nation, but rather the preservation of an already existing power structure.

In my persona life I can recognize three important phases, when I have consciously witnessed the emerging of a more encompassing structure internally.
When looking back at these episodes, I cannot perceive a feeling of urgency initiating or in any essential way contributing to these emergences.instead as initiating factors I can perceive a clear and calm observation of the limitations of my present way of relating to myself and the world in creating deeper health and wellbeing in me. these observations have probably made me to loosen my attachment to those structures
The first of these shifts happened very fast.It dealt clearly only with the self line.
It was just a blink of an eye, and what I had perceived as I was not anymore there. The I and its way of operating had changed permanently with no returning back. I did not feel that this new way of being had in anyway created by an conscious effort by me. It was more like dropping away something, so that a structure that already was there could take over. And a deep trust in the intelligence that is inbuilt in the structures of life followed. The need, the urgency to become or be something, ended in me then. And a life with great inner stability emerged instead.

The two later emergencies of more encompassing structures in other lines of intelligence also appeared spontaneously. In those cases the shift was not instantaneous. Also then I had strongly the feeling that my conscious eye did not create those structures. I however contributed to their formation by not resisting the scary, but also blissful, inner processes that accompanied these shifts. My role was to contain, and relax to masses of deep fear and anger etc.
Essential there was staying calmly grounded in Being no matter what appeared. The whole thing could have got spoiled by being carried away be a feeling of urgency.

Irmeli

Re: Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar

That's one hell of a knock-out post, Irmeli. You managed to convey a lot of the thoughts I was entertaing re: instilling a sense of urgency in potential followers, but without directly nailing A. C. to the wall. Great job!  One point I disagree with you on is the appreciation for his work overall. The tactics Cohen has used in the past and is still employing to establish himself as a Guru, as far as I can see, are nothing but standard operating procedures for your average charlatan.

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Jeez Mascha, I almost stepped on you posting here.
I concur with your appreciation of Irmeli's post (wonderful depth, Irmeli) and feel what your saying about Andrew to some extent. He is not a teacher I would choose. Although, I don't feel qualified to judge the needs of the particular students who are attracted to Andrew. They are a 'system' together I think.
I think there is a fine line sometimes between poking your students (like a ruler on the knuckles) and drawing them in with a powerfully resonant compassion. Rare indeed are those teachers, eh?
Irmeli,
Again, Loved the subtle depth you are illuminating here in the inner workings of self/mind.

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Hey Doug. Congratulations for being our new cultivator! You can step on me anytime, ok? As a drop of water, I welcome having wet squishiness spread far and wide.

What kind of “system together” do you think Cohen and his students are?

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Hi, everyone, I'm enjoying and nodding along to your comments. 

Did any of you listen to Craig Hamilton's talk this weekend?  I didn't quite finish it, but I heard probably the first 40 minutes, and it pretty much echoed the sentiments in this 2007 blog entry of his.
 
As with Cohen's talk, there were parts I appreciated and resonated with, but throughout I had an underlying – and sometimes overt – sense of cognitive dissonance as well.  His main points were 1) criticism of many modern teachers for watering down expectations about the nature of enlightenment and our potential for radical transformation, and 2) the moral imperative we have to evolve or transform. 

I want to listen again before I make more comments.  In general, I am sympathetic to his comments about the moral and ethical dimensions of self-development and spiritual realization, but there was a “tone” to his presentation that also struck me as narcissistic and a bit slimy.  Maybe I'll change my mind on a second listening, though.

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Thanks Mascha! I have bare feel and that feels sweet and cooling.
That is a very interesting question.
Here is a quick take, hummm. I have a sense that 'like' attracts 'like'. And in this case (he says tenetively without being disrespectful) there seems to be issues of self sense. (It is true, takes one to know one, eh?)
But it feels like a mutual agreement to work on these issues together to…in a sense…empower self assertiveness while 'badding' the ego. I have a bit of a different take on ego. In my own experience, I have found that my ego loves to make a 'project' out of disowning itself (I say laughing heartily).
No real badness here, just an observation.
Cheers

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Love the typo, Doug: ”I have bare feel…”

Yeah, bare-naked feels are what I'm having too :) Thanks for the company.

However tentatively and diplomatically you express yourself, I think your views come across very well. The way I see this whole question of creating a sense of urgency to 'evolve' (stoking the drive to become what you are not already) is fine as long as it's skillfully applied in direct communications between a master and a true student. Otherwise we're looking at a fear-mongering tactic that enables the further entrenchment of the superego-self with which you can then beat up on your own little self and that of your followers.

In short, who would create a generalized sense of urgency in the context of Enlightenment, when enlightenment deep down is nothing more than total and complete relaxation?

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Thanks again buddy…I'm still laughing. (He says, “Shit no, I ain't got no blind spots.”) Oh, wait…I meant to say that.

And, yes, you have captured the 'essence' again. Now, you are my kind of teacher {;-).

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Mascha, I'm really appreciating your cut-through-the-bullshit-and-call-it-exactly-like-you-see-it-is style.

Mascha and Doug, I don't get the typo – what was it supposed to say?

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Feet :)

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I'm not making it into any of these calls or their audio postings. I was partway through listening to the Cohen one, and had to turn off my computer, and now I'd have to start from the beginning again, which I don't seem to have time to do. Guess I better officially opt out of this conversation. Bummer!!!!!!!

Best, OM

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OM, I haven't listened yet, so I don't know, but can't you download the talks?  I thought that was an option so that you wouldn't have to sit in front of your computer and listen.

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Hey Every One,

I rarely post on here but often read - thanks for the pointing to the Integral Awakening Teleseminar - Tely you can download them - i just did - you have to register then they send you a link by email.
Ive been thinking about this issue of urgency as i often hear it been articulated especially by Andrew Cohen and his students and i too think well from a super zoomed out/ultimate /the earths history in terms of the whole universe perspective then is there really any urgency ?isnt the earth and its birth growth and death just a blip in the multi trillions of years time scale?
Every thing any one on the planet achieves including any evolutionary leap in consciousness will ultimately be forgotten and erased and not make the slightest difference to any thing ultimately in the scheme of things after our Sun dies and our part of the Universe goes dark?
You could argue that the real urgency lies with the development of technology that will allow us ultimately to leave our planet and solar system and evolve in other parts of the Universe ?
I have heard Cohen talk of the ultimate goal of evolutionary enlightenment to be not only the awakening of all beings but the awakening of all MATTER in the Universe - this  is a big job and maybe for a job as big as that he feels a need to start now ?

There is a danger i feel though in saying oh its all just the divine play spirit playing its course as it should i still feel there is the human part of the being divinely human on earth that we carry some sort of responsibility and that that is where my own urgency comes from so just as if a friends house was burning down or my Mother was dying would i just say oh its all part of the divine play or would i act with urgency to relieve their suffering just because i can ?

Surely the same applies our beautiful planet and the beings on it?
Am i going to “transcend and avoid” (as is my tendency) and look down from my “integral perspective” or am i going to allow myself to fully feel and be intimate with the pain and suffering in my “earthly realm” and be broken open by it and act from that open intimate vulnerable space.

Steve

Re: Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar

Ah. I'm so low-tech I didn't think about downloading. Thanks for the tip. I can probably do that with a bunch of other things I want to “listen” to. Though I still have to sit in front of my computer to listen, because it's not loud enough to move around and listen, and because I don't have an ipod to make the audiofile portable.

Steve, thanks for the very thoughtful post. I have a couple/three of responses.

I don't see any gain in consciousness as ever “lost.” If we are all One, then every shift in any part of Us affects the whole, and since linear constraining Time is an artificial construct/illusion that only a small portion of Beings have opted into temporarily (haha, no pun intended,) then indeed nothing can be “lost” as that concept depends on the prior concept of linear time.

And also as linear constraining Time is artificial, and most of the One, of Creation, of the realm of manifest/form operates under a different KIND of “time,” the concept of “urgency” also falls apart in the higher consciousness realms and stages. 

And at the stage of Integral, one becomes more comfortable with what seem to the human cognitive capacity as intractable paradoxes, and you nailed the other side of the paradox. It is IMO inappropriate to RESTRICT one's awareness to the highest levels and perspectives in dealing with daily life within the illusion of linear time. As long as one appears to oneself to be functioning in time with a daily life, one acts appropriately within it, and a sense of urgency obviously does arise, and can be IMO appropriately engaged with or acted upon. 

To do otherwise would IMO fail to embrace the paradox, and to fail to fully realize Nonduality, to fail to engage in the final step of that process, which is, in full nondual realization, to return to the world of form in which one has a body and a world, and to realize its own nature as multiplicity of manifestation of the One, and live in and as that nature. Not Two, but not “just” One either.

One does not return to the illusion of duality, but one lives in the (to-our-minds) paradox of multiplicity and Oneness. As I often explain to people in my ministry, whose minds have trouble wrapping themselves around this idea, the One is not a homogeneous blob. The One is the essential nature of the Many, and the One manifests ONLY as the Many!!! You can't have one without the other. 

But from advanced spiritual teachers (on and off planet) we know it is entirely possible to live in a reality of individuation, of multiplicity, of form, which is NOT within the illusion of separation or duality. It is entirely possible to live in the realization of Oneness, while dealing with the One's variety of sub-sections, sub-portions, and distinctly differing sub-identities, in one's daily life. 

[In fact, most entities in the realms of Creation DO live that way. Only a few of us volunteered for the experiment of pretending we are “separate.” But that aspect is beyond the scope of this thread, and would probably be regarded as speculation by many here. Let's just say for me and a bunch of others, it's not speculation, it's data, facts, and reality. And not essential to my main points here.]

Does all that make sense to you, Steve, and to anyone here? Does it address the ideas you were endorsing? I'm agreeing with your bottom line: feeling urgency, we act that way. IMO that's the whole point of the experiment, to ACT within it. But it has nothing direct to do with evolution itself feeling an urgency on the largest scales, I think I agree with that.

Blessings, OM Bastet

Re: Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar

Well said, OM.  You said:

“And also as linear constraining Time is artificial, and most of the One, of Creation, of the realm of manifest/form operates under a different KIND of “time,” the concept of “urgency” also falls apart in the higher consciousness realms and stages.”
and
“As long as one appears to oneself to be functioning in time with a daily life, one acts appropriately within it, and a sense of urgency obviously does arise, and can be IMO appropriately engaged with or acted upon.”

To me, it seems incongruous to talk about a sense of urgency (which is a phenomenon experienced at lower levels of consciousness) as applied to “awakening” or “enlightenment,” which are phenomena experienced at higher levels of consciousness, where, as you said, the concept of urgency falls apart.

BTW, on a technical note, you can get a basic MP3 player for $40 and listen to audio talks wherever you want.  I have my MP3 player set up in the kitchen, and I listen to audio talks while I wash, chop, cook, etc.  It's great, because I get about an hour a day of listening time that I wouldn't have had otherwise.  Multitasking definitely comes from the lower realms of “my” consciousness.  :-)

Re: Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar -- Urgency/Cohen

Au contraire, Tely. :) My perception is that the “multitasking” that goes on in the portions of the One Awareness that we call the “higher Beings” is zillions of times the scope and complexity we can manage in the human sub-portions of the One Awareness. 

ROTFL!!!

And thanks for the tip. That actually might be do-able, I will look around for an MP3 player, small and portable. I think I have something that plays MP3s but is another function of a component (nonportble) DVD player….. 

And thanks for your thoughts!! I wonder: The portions of the One consciousness which operate in the illusion of separation obviously can and do feel a sense of urgency about various things, including about moving out of that illusion. So urgency applies to enlightenment or awakening in that sense. 

But I think you were saying, not afterward. But then, we get into identity issues. When I realize I am, in essence, the One awareness, then I do notice that a sense of urgency about various things actually is arising in sub-portions of Myself, some of them in other embodiments, and some of them as parts of this embodiment which are not yet fully “on board.” Illusions not yet fully dissolved.

I think we're down the rabbit hole re “urgency” as we jump around these levels…..

Hugs,  
OM

Re: Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar -- Urgency/Cohen

Ah, yes, but the MOTIVE FOR multitasking, that is different.LOL !!! Ah, yes, I get now what your last sentence was saying!!!

Explaining the joke if anyone wants to know: The more complex or vast the consciousness of a “Being,” the more its various activities within itself, that arise from its nature as vast and complex, could be called “multi-tasking.” Eh?

OM

Re: Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar -- Urgency/Cohen

I like what you're saying, OM. After following you on your various perspective-jumps, I ended up with “I'm being multi-tasked.”

I think that's my favorite position for now. Passive. So the little human being sitting here doesn't have to do anything more than is already being done by the One. Whew, what a load off! Dissolves the slight feeling of overwhelm I was experiencing before… love it.

Thanks.

Re: Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar -- Urgency/Cohen

Whatever rings your chimes, Mascha!!! :))

However, soooooo sorry to disillusion you, but from my perspective, the One does AS you. So you are not off the hook, hahahaha!!!!!!

OTOH, I do know what you're saying, and it IS a load off my human-self/Ego, to realize it is “being done” rather than having sole responsibility as the (separate) Doer.

And now that I think of it, one might indeed with some precision — from my POV — say that a human embodiment/identity is one task of a multi-tasking Larger Identity. Say, that's a great new analogy!!!!!  

Slight feeling of overwhelm? A lot of us would regard that as a vacation!!! ROTFL!!!!

Hugs, OM

Re: Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar -- Urgency/Cohen

Yes, that was the insight I was pointing to:

OM: …one might indeed with some precision…. say that a human embodiment/identity is one task of a multi-tasking Larger Identity.

'Being multi-tasked' is a perspective that had not occurred to me before, so I appreciated its novelty as well as its relative accuracy. Of course, insights are fleeting glimpses only, and if we had a dollar for every insight that has arisen between the bunch of us around here, we'd be billionaires, I'm sure.

Hugs right back at you, OM.

Re: Great Integral Awakening Teleseminar

Good to know I was understanding what you meant.

We just need to find the conversion formula, insights into dollars, hahahaha. there must be one. 

:)
OM