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The Integral Pod

The Integral Pod (formerly I-I+Zaadz, or IIZ) is a discussion group (a.k.a. “pod”) for enthusiasts of the work of Ken Wilber and other proponents of integral thought. Our aim here is to provide a “We-space” for broad discussion of second-tier living, loving and learning. Please read our vision and guidelines – the ...(more)
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Learn and discuss Integral Theory, with an emphasis on Ken Wilber's AQAL framework.+ Focus: understanding AQAL theory
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dramaisinsanity posted a reply to the conversation "Big Mind/Big Heart - Genpo Roshi" ()
RLtruthseeker-artist : Integral Mysticism
RLtruthseeker-artist posted a reply to the conversation "Manifestation of an idea" ()
smlak : Some random guy
smlak started a new conversation - Manifestation of an idea ()
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Eddie posted a reply to the conversation "Groking the map" ()
Eddie : Reconsiderer
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Grey : Integral Ideator (I-I)
Grey Link! Cool! :D (10 months ago)
Grey : Integral Ideator (I-I)
Grey Just testing URLs in the grapevine. This link will take you to Pelle's blog: http://is.gd/ixdm (I want to see if this gets converted to a link or if you have to copy and paste it.) (10 months ago)
Grey : Integral Ideator (I-I)
Grey Oof! Just saw this now, Siona.... Yeah, flutters I think it was... no, "flaps", but I don't like it much. "Flutter" was the name to replace "Grapevine". Anyway, I just used "tweets" here because it's more readily recognizable. :) (10 months ago)
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  smlak : Some random guy

Manifestation of an idea

smlak said Jul 11, 7:38 AM:

 

I heard Alex Gray, in a dialogue with Ken wilber, express his idea of how a painting becomes manifest through the four quadrants. It went something like this:

1. First the artist has a vision. (UL)
->
2. He proceeds to paint it to a piece of paper which then becomes a painting. (UR)
->
3. Then the artist proceeds to make his painting known by putting it in an art gallery, for example. (LR)
->
4. Then, if the painting is of some significance, it becomes part of the cultural structure as more and more people begin to enjoy it, like Mona Lisa has become part of the Italian culture. (LL)

To me, at least, it makes sense, and as I see it, this process could be applied to every single thing man creates. Now I remember Wilber calling anything created by man, or animal for that matter (Individual or social holon), an artifact. Also, a holon (or reality) does not manifest as a process through the quadrants, but rather, tetra-arises. All aspects (quadrants) of a holon arise at the same time.

Could it be, then, that an artifact becomes manifest the way Grey describes? UL -> UR -> LR -> LL, a roundaway trip through the quadrants? And when Wilber says that reality tetra-arises, are artifacts then outside of reality because they don't follow the same pattern? :D

Any clarifying thoughts? Or complicating ones perhaps?

  RLtruthseeker-artist : Integral Mysticism

Re: Manifestation of an idea

RLtruthseeker-artist said Aug 19, 1:01 PM:

 

       I like this way of describing a work of art, or painting, or artifact.  I would say that is a fair assesment of how the artistic process goes (more or less). I wouldn't say that artifacts are outside of reality though. Perhaps they are merely outside of the collective consciousness. Reality as I am describing is real, even when we don't know about it, i.e. conscious of it.

The “artifact” or art object exists in the artists mind, even if it hasn't taken form in the world of form. It is held in the mind and then it manifests and ripples through the collective. Michelangelo said he could “see” the figure in a block of marble, and then he would try and subtract the marble until the form was revealed.

      When an art object becomes manifest in the world of form (i.e. has form) then I think it has four dimensions to it, an interior one, an objective one, an environmental one (where it's located), and a one in relation to others of its kind (inter-subjective), even if it isn't known yet. Also the AQAL quadrants as I've mostly seen them mostly fit the human scale.
       I don't know though, that's a very good question, and I think it brings up another interesting one…do Platonic ideas have four quadrants?

Hope this idea helped (?)
P.S. Check out my artwork (shameless plug)  :)