Gaia: The Integral Pod - Water Cooler - The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://julieaerwin.gaia.com — Sun, 20 May 2007 18:40:33 GMT

Hi Dmitri

Wasn't I in a down mood the other day?

Decided that not engaging with family and friends at a higher level just wasn't on and I needed to stop feeling sorry for myself. So, quick kick up the backside and a day spent planting out my veggies and I feel muuuuch better. So what colour shadow was that little ego trip?? : D.

Juliee

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://Dmitri.gaia.com — Fri, 18 May 2007 16:26:27 GMT

Juliee,

Since I've been online (for a whole month!!) and have found II and Zaadz, I've finally found people who are 'on the same page' as me in terms of these discussions. I'm so grateful for that because now this part of me can be expressed and reflected back. I can discuss and develop the part of mysenf which is rising, becoming, in the way of understanding my own personal development as it dances with the developing world.

This gives me a great sense of release and liberation. Now that I can have these discussions with this global community here, I don't NEED to have it in my daily life with those who I work with, have as friends, nor even from lovers. This part of me is expresssed, heard, and responded to. Now I can just BE at whatever level those around me are in, and interact with them fully, trading love and secrets in whatever way is best in the moment. It's allowed me to be much more present and accepting in the rest of my life.

I would like it if those around me here, my friends, family, to understand all of me, completely. It just isn't going to happen. Now, for the first time, that's 100% okay, thanks to people here, people like you.

Dmitri

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://julieaerwin.gaia.com — Thu, 17 May 2007 10:17:45 GMT

Hi Colin

Yes that's a skill I'm learning, especially aided by the fact that I so often (even more so now )get glazed expressions when I say what I really think, feel, experience , have read, in response to questions or in conversation :(((
I resonate so strongly with comments made on this thread (I think) about the loneliness of this space, even within my own family I've more or less given up trying to engage on any level other than day to day living stuff.

Juliee

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Wed, 16 May 2007 19:07:30 GMT

Hey Tim,

"Abusing the ego without consent. That's classic."

I was wondering if anyone would take note of that comment! Glad it brought a laugh with it.

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Wed, 16 May 2007 19:00:50 GMT

Juliee: In my experience, it is not about whether or not one offers service as a "fixer". It is ok to engage with people in an attempt to assist them (and yourself!) to higher levels of conscious experience and health. For me, the key is letting people know that you are available and then letting them approach you.

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://julieaerwin.gaia.com — Wed, 16 May 2007 16:27:10 GMT

So many posts of the last few days have confirmed and put into a framework some of my own recent realisations.

About three years ago I was unwell and wasn't getting any sensible answers from'normal' sources. I had heard about reiki, thought it was a load of 'bunkum' but had reached the point of "I'll try anything". It made a gentle and gradually increasing difference. I was intrigued but still very very sceptical. One of my sons was having problems so I thought "Why not?" Again there was an immediate improvement. so I decided to go through reiki 'training' for myself. Of course being the 'fixer' that i was I immediately set about trying to heal everything that moved!!

During this time my friend's son developed cancer. I offered and sent reiki for 12 months and Sam's tumour went into remission. When the tumour returned virulently I again offered reiki. At the same time as sending the reiki I sent a prayer to the effect of 'please heal Sam but if that's not what's meant to be please make it quick'. Within 2 weeks Sam died, peacefully.

I've since thought about that prayer along the lines of "becareful what you ask for" and wondered was it my place to try to intervene. I came to the conclusion that though I meant well, it wasn't my place. I didn't/don't know what was the purpose of Sam's illness and death and if I don't know then I shouldn't touch it. Now when I see suffering I offer a prayer for the greatest good but without attachment to any given outcome. (Although its a bit tougher to hold back when its the kids!!)

This seemed to be confirmed during a recent yoga guided meditation where I asked a question "what should I be doing now?" The answers came but I then wanted to know would that particular action lead to 'good' in the world and not 'bad' (my reluctance to unleash anything based on my experience with Sam). I experienced an overwhelming sense that there is no such thing as 'good' or 'bad' just happenings. That even the 'bad' things have to happen sometimes to lead us further on. I hadn't got this concept before, really got it ,as opposed to simply understanding the intellectual idea.

The dilemma this leaves me in now is that my paid job is ultimately a 'fixer'. So I'm standing at a cross-roads now wondering what to do.

I'm not sure this is the right place for this story but I find when others have told their stories on various threads I have grasped the concepts better, so I offer it in that light.

Juliee

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://timelody.gaia.com — Wed, 16 May 2007 14:55:01 GMT

Are you sure this isn't your own teal shadow's impatience - wanting everyone to be more developed and not to have teal shadows? ;) ...oh I crack myself up sometimes...

Seriously though Tim, really important point you bring up. I think to some extent, we all carry this 'shadow' - though actually, I'm not so sure shadow is the right word - its more like an 'unhealthy' tendency. I'm teal; I feel this tendency in myself, I wrestle with it sometimes, it peeks its nose out sometimes when I don't notice, most often I don't feel its frustration at all, but I know its there. Sounds like the urge wont truly be transcended until turquiose.

No, shadow isn't the right word for what I mean. Yes, shadows do fly around, someone is angry at someone else both for what they are doing and what they used to be doing, but then there is also the side of that that's different, which is anger because you really have been hurt in the past by something similar and haven't quite fully dealt with the anger.

What I'm talking about is the dynamic between a teal anxiousness to do or achieve or make things happen or be more effective or for folks and things to grow faster which is just a natural tendency of that stage and turquoise' different feelings and worldview about all that which can then sometimes result in turquoise being really annoyed with teal (as she says "sometimes the least tolerant") or teal very puzzled and annoyed with turquoise (or maybe, who knows, a higher stage).

And what I mean by what I said above is that, regardless, both second tier stages have the ability to "see through" themselves or see through the nature of this difficulty to what should be able to be a lessoning of potential angst and confusion. Teal does know that growth never stops so can, at the very least, respect that higher stages exist, know it has "more to learn," know it "could do better" and shouldn't be too upset by "level distinctions," etc. and turquoise, of course, should be able to "remember what it was like" at teal or better work with it, see through shadow or annoyance, it is aware of its own thought processes-basically these two dudes/gals (or whatever) should be able to get along swimmingly by simply talking about the nature of this problem when it arises.

I know that for myself, there used to be a time when I would feel this tremendous, to literally unbearable ENERGY, and by God is was ALL POSITIVE! To help people, to do things, to make things happen . . . I could SEE how it would all work, SEE how it would be so wonderful for so many things, so many people, so much GOOD, SEE how the problems would be solved and SEE, literally a BETTER world. And as more fantastic -and I really do mean fantastic-things were accomplished only wider, deeper and more awesome visions would come into view; and the results? Forget it-when things would happen now only could you see the joy and people's changed and transformed smiles, but they would TELL you so! But as I said in the beginning, there was definitely a point where I knew that if I did not either a.) find a way to release this energy (presumably in the realization of the visions themselves) or curb it or reign it in or channel it -when things weren't happening or things just wouldn't work out-that, literally, my body would not be able to handle it and I would kill myself. That's the energy of dynamic, fantastic, positive BIG!

If I had no idea what Integral and AQAL and all the systems it includes were, I would have told you in straight English I simply learned from the college of hard knocks . . .. the world does not change overnight, in a day, maybe not even in your lifetime and maybe, honestly maybe, never. Further, what makes me so sure it is in need of so much change and better-ness in the first place? Further still, after enough time and enough similar experiences (and folks negative reactions-no they didn't always occur, but when they did it was pretty memorable) I just began to see a lot of things differently. Maybe I'm being just a bit too big for my britches here . . . maybe things are just fine . . . maybe things are they way they are because that is their greatest potential in the Now moment . . .

The SC-G article does say that the Magician level is the first that can truly understand self and things in terms of evolution, and I think that probably has to do with what I said above about the baby . . . the baby is a miracle RIGHT NOW and the process never stops . . perhaps it's better to just be a bit gentler.

And since I'm on a tangent here, I think that's what "the magician" means . . . you maybe stay behind the scenes, stand back, and work magic that maybe no one will ever even be aware of, things that will flower in their own time, or never . . . just work magic, know that it's good, and let the Kosmos unfold . . . more of a working with the magic of the Kosmos . . . because I will tell ya one thing . . . we can do wonderful things, we can make change and good and better . . . but we will never do that on a scale, at the level, and with equivalent amounts of intelligence, wisdom, beauty and energy, as the Kosmos itself. Maybe true awareness of evolution means respect for the magnificent process of evolution, that was well underway long before we came along to start making it better and fucking it all up . . . I say that, of course, with a smile . . .

Okay, gotta go!

Peace, Tim

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Wed, 16 May 2007 14:43:11 GMT

I am loving this dialog!

Ewan, Tim, Gitanjali, this recent engagement is really helping me flesh out my own understanding and my ability to communicate it. Sweet!

I totally agree that avoiding hurt feelings is not the point. An example: I am a relatively evolved person at this stage, and I am open to feedback from just about anyone. I most often get useful feedback, in the context of just living life, from my wife, Melissa. And, even though I am open to it and I trust her absolutely, when she tells me something that hooks a shadow or is just simply hard to hear, I experience hurt feelings. It's a basic ego reaction, and there's nothing bad about that, in itself. And my relationship to that phenomena has changed profoundly: I now actively look for those moments because they contain pearls of truth. Not so many people are at that place, though.

My point, more specifically, is that, without that basic trust, the likelihood is that very little provocative information is going to make it through the ego defense system. Some people don't trust anyone. Some people trust no one other than their spouses. Some people trust only members of their religion, and some, like me, trust the universe and look for useful information, whatever the source might be. The skillful means comes into play, in part, when trying to get a sense of where a person falls on this trust spectrum. Those that trust more can take some heavier ego pushing. Those that live in fear and reactivity can handle very little, and poking an information stick in their eyes is going to cause more blindness, not a greater ability to see. (OK, so that's maybe not a tight analogy, but it sounded great as it arose!)

Hurt feelings are part of being a living, breathing, AWAKE human being. I don't try to avoid hurting people's feelings as a goal. I try to communicate information in a way that is likely to be most useful to that person, as far as I can discern. And as soon as someone devolves into ego reaction, the ability to hear what the conversation partner is trying to say diminishes sharply. THIS is what I mean about Right Speech, which I haven't really clarified very well in this pod in the last few weeks, not avoiding hurting people's feelings or using strict PC language. Of course, when I get locked, temporarily, into ego reaction, it is difficult for me to hear as well, which makes the communication even more challenging (both people in ego reaction).

Ewan, I hear ya with the observation of healthy versus unhealthy teal and being able to meet people where they are at.

Anyways...back to work.

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://ewantownhead.gaia.com — Wed, 16 May 2007 09:56:45 GMT

Hey gang

What a rich conversation.

Tim -

I honestly think that despite differences in general worldviews/self sense/levels, an overall second tier crowd SHOULD be able to deal with this dynamic, understand it ... and find a great deal more peace, harmony and cooperation. If we simply talk about and understand it. It is not the case that there is no better understanding or middle ground to be achieved, as might be the case in first tier. We SHOULD be able to understand this and ALL overall improve better as a community, etc.

Are you sure this isn't your own teal shadow's impatience - wanting everyone to be more developed and not to have teal shadows? ;) ...oh I crack myself up sometimes...

Seriously though Tim, really important point you bring up. I think to some extent, we all carry this 'shadow' - though actually, I'm not so sure shadow is the right word - its more like an 'unhealthy' tendency. I'm teal; I feel this tendency in myself, I wrestle with it sometimes, it peeks its nose out sometimes when I don't notice, most often I don't feel its frustration at all, but I know its there. Sounds like the urge wont truly be transcended until turquiose.

Dmitri -

That sounds like you turned from yellow (teal?) into turquoise.

I don't know waht Tim would say, but I remember that same realisation - when I stopped giving out books and pushing it on people. I don't think thats the move from teal to turquiose - I think thats just teal translation. To be blatently honest, I'm still pretty skeptical about the amount of people in the integral community who have a CoG at turquiose. Not helped by Ken's reference to 2nd tier in general as turquiose.

Colin -

I do wonder whether teal does lose the ability to offer sound advise to someone at amber or orange because they are potentially so disidentified with those levels that they can't "meet them where they're at".

I think unhealthy teal can, and I'm sure does. But not teal universally. Thats my sense anyway.

Gitanjali -

What I really want is for someoone who I trust to call me on my shit when they sense that it will open me and deepen me. I want them to be able to do it in anyway they feel is most effective with me at that time. It could be a glowering look and a "you're talking crap" or it could be really gentle and ineffably kind.

Amen, me too. This conversation has really made me think about why I want this. It feels like a disatisfaction with myself, I have an ambition to push deeper, further, realise more of my potential. Which is great, that drive has really brought me face to face with more and more parts of myself that needed to be addressed. Freeing up energy to let me continue to grow.

But the dark side of that desire, is of course that you want other people to act from the same place. This is a wonderful space to live from, so much energy and drive to improve, to become a better and more authentic human being. And, shit, I can get frustrated when people don't have the same drive to improve. It's not all people by a long shot, its more like the people I think should 'know better'. ;) Its not a selfish projection, its not for my own gratifaction, I don't feel smug that I can see they could improve - not any of that. Its done out of total love for them, they could be so much more wonderful, so much more of who they are if they lived from that place.

And thats the dark side! Like you all have said, if someone isn't ready to live from that place, its unfair to expect that of them. I know it, but I don't always remember it.

And I totally agree with you Tim, *if* someone is pushing into that place, or is there already but needs some assistance, hurt can be a legitamate part of that. Sometimes red aggression is the most skillful means, and people get hurt.

This is great stuff people, I love to find more ways that I'm less than I could be, more ways to grow... Fuck...I'm sooo teal ;) haha

Ewan

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://timelody.gaia.com — Tue, 15 May 2007 22:48:32 GMT

"I think that abusing the ego without consent is, in most cases, not useful at all."

Abusing the ego without consent. That's classic.

LOL

But I think you're right. This must be the idea of skillful means.

But the other idea besides "recoiling" is just plain simply, that it hurts. Hurt it necessary, I think, there is a saying something along the lines of "only a heart that has been broken is a heart worth having" or something like that . . . but we have to be very careful on how much of the "responsibility" for that we egoically take on as our "duty" or something along those lines. i.e. "I had to do it. She needed to hear!"

Then again, it's also true that some egos are simply impenetrable and a nuclear bomb could not dissuade them . . .

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Tue, 15 May 2007 22:19:52 GMT

Hello Gitanjali,

Yes, I agree with your analysis. I think that one of your final statements is key, though: it must depend on the flow between people...and the information from that flow...and that in itself is a huge skill which requires vulnerability in the person saying "youre talking crap"

Simply telling someone, even if it comes from an authentic place, "you're full of crap" is only helpful if the person you are telling has enough trust in you to open him or her to a useful critique. I think that abusing the ego without consent is, in most cases, not useful at all. Instead, the self recoils and contracts into defense. And that isn't helpful for anyone. Instead of using the opportunity to encourage the person to reflect on unhealthy ego structures, it encourages a complete discounting of the information and a resounding "Fuck off," whether said aloud or not.

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://gitanjali.gaia.com — Tue, 15 May 2007 21:42:06 GMT

Morning beautiful poddybodies,

Interesting conversation you are having. I'm really glad that the true motives behind "fixing" are being explored - the fact that it is really about the fixer not being able to hold her own discomfort, and needing to fix to resolve it. (Which is not to say in its essence this isnt a beautiful energy - all energies are).

At the same time, I want to talk a bit more about not going back to green - where everything is acceptable and everyone is very respectable and people start by saying "when you do X i get Y and feel Z"...I know thats not what you guys are advocating but I want to express my sense and yearning here at this point.

What I really want is for someoone who I trust to call me on my shit when they sense that it will open me and deepen me. I want them to be able to do it in anyway they feel is most effective with me at that time. It could be a glowering look and a "you're talking crap" or it could be really gentle and ineffably kind.

I think love and respect could underly both these actions but with the first its a lot harder for green people to see that this could be said with love and respect. And its a lot harder to do as well, it takes a real holding of awareness and intention. But the first is more effective sometimes...and that is why its worth practising that one.

Also, sometimes when I'm being unhealthy it may not be right to call me on it because it may just not be right. And sometime when i'm healthy it may still be right to call me to grow vertically. So...I dont want it to be necessraily dependent on that distinction though its a good rule of thumb.

So without rules of thumb, it must depend on the flow between people...and the information from that flow...and that in itself is a huge skill which requires vulnerability in the person saying "youre talking crap". while the fixer feels somehow safe the loving person I'm sensing doesnt feel safe.

Gitanjali

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Tue, 15 May 2007 19:16:43 GMT

Dmitri said: Amateur psychological mechanics fumbling with our mental wrenches and psychic screwdrivers... God help us!

Seriously!!!

I think you're right on regarding entering the Zaadz I-I pod with the expectation that people will poke and prod, forcing us to look more closely at our maps of the world and the people in it, if we can take the criticism and handle the heat. If one isn't into that, he or she should look elsewhere! New Age spots where people will coddle you are pretty easy to find, too. That said, I am one of the finger wavers about Right Speech and I think that, based simply on my experience, holding that intention and being explicitly mindful about how we engage others in dialog is of utmost importance. The point is not to ridicule people and sling mud at ego; it is to continue to question and point fingers in the direction of the moon to encourage people to reevaluate their maps. Ultimately, according to mystical spiritual traditions, the map must go, too, but we need healthy maps before we can transcend them cleanly. (Now I'm just rambling....)

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://Dmitri.gaia.com — Tue, 15 May 2007 18:46:55 GMT

Colin,
   What you just wrote makes sense. Especially the part about turquoise people: "Good luck finding them!" Which is why we're here... Where else can we find people who are advanced, and using language and techniques familiar to us to advance? (There are other places, which use different language. Tibetan buddhists are great at advancement, but don't do it the way we do. I guess we need the morality, application to everyday life, and probably something of an academic slant. I'd guess 90% of the people here have Bachelors degrees, and 60% with Masters or more...)
   Anyway, It seems like simply being here strongly implies being open to personal advancement. We almost 'ask for it' every time we log on or post. Maybe there's some way to figure out or express if that assumption is correct or not, besides writing "I'm not asking for advice, but this has been my experience...." Maybe it's better for us not to assume.
   Generally speaking, when I hear people share, like David's(?) Vietnam stories, people heard him and offered stories of their own. I don't recall anyone trying to fix him. (Nothing to fix! Turq.) That is definitely a shadow that I need to work with. The "fix it" shadow. Amateur psychological mechanics fumbling with our mental wrenches and psychic screwdrivers... God help us!

Dmitri

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Tue, 15 May 2007 18:02:06 GMT

Edit: Looks like Dmitri and I are on the same page here. I started writing before you posted, bud!

Tim, I SO resonate with all you said, especially:

On a personal note, I just know that they day came when I stopped giving people books, stopped inviting them to do wonderful things that they would so benefit from, stopped attemtping to improve or enlighten them without their asking (and even if they did ask the goal was simply a healthier translation, not transformation), stopped attempting to show and share with them all of the new and wonderful things and ideas and so on that I had discovered and was continuin to. aAnd all because after so much time I realized that there were just way to many times when this was not actually helping anything, might even be harming them, was not, in fact, very respectiful (or as respectful as I now fet I needed to be in a very deep and profound way) and even had an air of self interest EVEN THOUGH it had nothing to do, really, with any "one right way"- the focus was more, check out this better way - that will help you grow and be so awesome!!!!

Perhaps it is best said that a deeper realization came that folks are already profoundly pretty awesome exactly where they are at. . (that is in the paper but I don't have it in front of me right now)... and you can not really hasten natural growth ... . that idea could even be violent ...

I think of our my newest baby (or even all our kids) ... what am going to do? Say, come on! Second tier Johanna! ... . Grow! Transform! Grow!!! ...

It has just been in the last few months that I am really getting this to my core. People will grow at the pace that is right for them. Sure, if they request guidance from "2nd tier" people (good luck finding them at this point!), then it would be appropriate to offer respectful suggestions that the person can use to explore for his/herself. And it could be that, for most people at this time in humanity's evolution, suggestions from someone that is expressing healthy first tier are most useful because they can relate more to the issue at hand. I do wonder whether teal does lose the ability to offer sound advise to someone at amber or orange because they are potentially so disidentified with those levels that they can't "meet them where they're at". As we know, growth cannot be forced, and ridiculing people for being "underdeveloped" is certainly no help. Even tho I'm an intelligent guy, there's no way I could have gotten all of this deep understanding (versus intellectualizing) before I was simply ready to get it. The nuances are subtle, but profound, when it actually starts to make sense.

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://Dmitri.gaia.com — Tue, 15 May 2007 17:32:55 GMT

Timelody,
   That sounds like you turned from yellow (teal?) into turquoise.
   SCG again, describing turquoise: "Sometimes Construct-aware persons (turquoise) are LEAST tolerant of the Autonomous stage (yellow/teal) and its fervent desire to help others to become the most they can be. The desire for others to be different than they are represents what Construct aware persons see as a basic flaw in themselves, namely, seeing oneself as the center or a valid measure of the world as well as not living in the present." (my caps).
    This sure could lead to a great deal of frustration, of wanting people to stay 'on point' and not get 'distracted' by being 'fixers.' And it's a hard distinction to make. We want to be compassionate and to help, but we also want to allow people to be who they are and respect their stage. I guess that's why many spiritual masters wait until a potential student asks for guidance. Maybe that's where we draw the line. Be quiet and lead by example until someone actually asks for help.
    Glad things are moving here again!
Dmitri

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://timelody.gaia.com — Tue, 15 May 2007 17:18:35 GMT

I would set a certain qualification on the New Age aspect. (or for that matter, other aspects as well) It's not in the paper but i think "accepting people where they're at" does draw a line at relatively positive and healthy. So something that is truly "off" is going to get a hearing. Boy this might be a very subtle distinction. Some might be adamant against New Age because it's kind of like a retroactive sort of thing, and/or because it is the quality of transforming all, not necessarily to my own level, but always to something better than where they are at now. Whereas, others are just more interested in folks being as healthy -or as not confused and unhealthy-as possible. (With I think, also, more concerns not about simply individuals but cultures and communities -unhealthiness spreads easily) That's a very subtle distinction!

But anyway, yes Colin I think you're spot on. There is a wave of frustration that arises simply from the dynamics between the differing attitudes and worldviews of teal and turquoise. I do think it is so that more often it is teal that is frustrated, but it can happen from turquoise not understanding (or remembering) teal as well. Again, maybe even a retroactive reaction-no, no, no! that's not what you do!

Boy this really is a VALID topic of conversation within this community.

With emphasis:

I honestly think that despite differences in general worldviews/self sense/levels, an overall second tier crowd SHOULD be able to deal with this dynamic, understand it . . . and find a great deal more peace, harmony and cooperation. If we simply talk about and understand it. It is not the case that there is no better understanding or middle ground to be achieved, as might be the case in first tier. We SHOULD be able to understand this and ALL overall improve better as a community, etc.

On a personal note, I just know that they day came when I stopped giving people books, stopped inviting them to do wonderful things that they would so benefit from, stopped attemtping to improve or enlighten them without their asking (and even if they did ask the goal was simply a healthier translation, not transformation), stopped attempting to show and share with them all of the new and wonderful things and ideas and so on that I had discovered and was continuin to. aAnd all because after so much time I realized that there were just way to many times when this was not actually helping anything, might even be harming them, was not, in fact, very respectiful (or as respectful as I now fet I needed to be in a very deep and profound way) and even had an air of self interest EVEN THOUGH it had nothing to do, really, with any "one right way"- the focus was more, check out this better way - that will help you grow and be so awesome!!!!

Perhaps it is best said that a deeper realization came that folks are already profoundly pretty awesome exactly where they are at. . (that is in the paper but I don't have it in front of me right now). . . and you can not really hasten natural growth . . . . that idea could even be violent . . .

I think of our my newest baby (or even all our kids) . . . what am going to do? Say, come on! Second tier Johanna! . . . . Grow! Transform! Grow!!! . . .she hasn't even reached magenta . . . :-)

However, if my girls are violently (my term) emotionally abusing each other becasue they are expressing certain negative aspects of a femanine red/amber . . . . you can bet they are going to hear about it! (And then I'll go an pull my hair out . . . :-0)

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Tue, 15 May 2007 16:25:28 GMT

I'll jump on that bandwagon, too. Frustration with people because they're just not growing fast enough, or they don't care enough, or they don't "get it" is, from what I've seen, a HUGE shadow in the integral community. It is the basis, I think, for the sarcastic ranting and targeting of New Agers.

So, this is a defining feature of teal? And moving beyond this to accept and meet people as they are is, then, a defining feature of turquoise?
EDIT: Also a defining feature of turquoise: a real subjective experience of Spirit as everything that manifests?

I need to finish reading SCG's paper; I downloaded it and started, but got interrupted. The strongest reason that I have for "buying into" this whole developmental hierarchy is that is seems to mirror my actual experience!

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://pelle.gaia.com — Tue, 15 May 2007 15:55:00 GMT

I agree Tim.

Re: The Turquoise Shadow--do you have it?

http://ewantownhead.gaia.com — Tue, 15 May 2007 15:16:05 GMT

Hi Tim,

Yup, I'd say so too. It's all an evolutionary learning curve :)

Ewan