Gaia: The Integral Pod - Water Cooler - Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this way

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://tikiliz.gaia.com — Sun, 22 Apr 2007 10:22:57 GMT

Thank you Tim, I think you may have missed your vocation:-)

Your insights as always are deep and valued, it has taken me a couple of days to think through what you said.

My distal self....mmm, the young woman who was prepared to love freely and unashamedly, no I feel no shame or anything unhealthy there at all. If I had I wouldn't have told the story. I think if there is a marker in the road for me here, it's that the adult me is willing to own and acknowledge her now. I have spent years pretending to myself I don't really care what people think of me, when, in reality I have probably been afraid of exposing bits of myself, the bits where I risk challenging people's views of who they think I am. Am I afraid of being judged? Probably, it certainly looks that way.

So to the credits
Well the "people who got it out of me" as you so nicely put it, were not the people at the time. I do appreciate they could have been much harder and lol's story made me see just how damaging that could have been, so I am very lucky in that respect.

I also felt I had to tll the story for another reason. I left my Catholicism behind a long time ago, around that time. There was no place in my life for a patriarchal organisation where my role was predefined, I didn't fit there, even at 15. I think with hindsight your observation of being in orange at that time is spot on, and with it came a hearty rejection of blue conformity. It wasn't that I didn't have ethics, or standards, or morals, I just know I had to work out for me what they would be. Something could never be "right" for me just because someone else told me it should, no matter how much authority or experience they brought with them.

I don't think I'll ever go back to Catholicism, or Christianity in any form, it simply doesn't hold enough meaning for me, but I do recognise these days how much it shaped who I am and there is a treasure trove of precious things in that tradition. The integration of my catholic upbringing has probably taken more work thatn that generally pretty happy teenager ever needed. As an organisation I distrust what they teach young people about sex and relationships, kids hear the "no contraception" bit and are so afraid of being caught with supplies they risk unsafe sex. there is nothing in the world any organisation or teaching can do about teenage hormones, in my view.

But yes, i was treated kindly and with a level of undertanding the Church generally doesn't get credit for and I want to acknowledge that.

So for me, the people who "got it out of me" are the people like you, Colin, mary, lol, the people who come here with such openess and create an environment where this stuff can see the light of day and be poked around a bit. I think some decent credit is due there too. You won't remember me when I first arrived at IN..... I remember people like leela, one of the most gentle souls I have ever known, being so careful not to smash doen the big wall I couldn't even see I had around me, leaving me space to build trust and open in my own time.

That has been the real gift of the Integral Community for me. It has changed me, I am more open, more vulnerable in many ways, but I do believe that has made me more, not less and i wouldn't choose to have it any other way.

So thanks again for your thoughts, and your sensitivity in how you articulated them, it helped me clarify things for myself too

kiss the baby for me
love
Liz

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 02:19:56 GMT

Edit: I thought my previous post was lost, so I recreated it. But it wasn't, so now I'm in edit mode...

One thing that is profoundly different than my previous selves, though, is that, when I do use substances, it is very consciously, infrequently, and in amounts that used to elicit the comment: What's the point? I'm just so darn sensitive to things I ingest now, including caffeine and sugar.

It's all about balance!

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 02:02:36 GMT

Tim,

Thanks for coming back to this thread! I appreciate your perspective on my "issue" and it resonates quite well with my take on it. I hadn't tacked the word "holonic" onto the relational aspect of vows, though, and that has most certainly helped me get it at a deeper level.

What have I done with my role in this issue? Well, I haven't made any hard and fast rules, and I haven't changed any of my relationships. I am blessed/cursed with the ability to either be fully present in an "awakened awareness" way relatively frequently, even if it's while tasting some hot sake in my mouth in the context of the aforementioned relationships. When I am not holding such awareness in any given moment, I am able to reflect on my thought stream or emotions, if relevant, rather quickly after the fact.

Blessing: THIS is reality, baby!
Curse: God, it gets tiring sometimes and I just want to "turn it off!"

I'm guessing that, at some point on the spiral towards enlightenment or Christ Consciousness, this becomes more effortless. Sometimes I feel that open spaciousness, but more often than not, it's work to build up this new muscle!

Thanks again, Tim.

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://timelody.gaia.com — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:44:36 GMT

Boy, I'm a bad confessor. I said I'd get back t y'all and never did! Forgive me!

But I've got just a tiny bit of time here so let's see if I can get out a few thoughts.

Colin. What I wanted to say -and I'll try and state this as briefly as possible- was that a good deal of your entire moral dilemma there seems to me to clearly have to do with your awareness of holons and your own holonic nature. Meaning, your vows and aspirations or whatever may be whole unto themselves, as you are, but you and those vows and aspirations are also inevitably a part of the others around you. It just seems to me like you realize that you can not do anything without affecting them also -and that's a good thing! Or, in other words, it strikes me as very turquoise.

The thoughts I had on that, again, as quickly and briefly as possible, were of course that, one, that's a good thing, but more importantly, two - these vows and precepts were not created in that context. If anything, they were created with a very different context in mind. A context where, first, those relationships did not matter in the face of aspiration, etc., -or maybe better said, they just were NOT considered in that way (because awareness of the holonic nature of self and others was nowhere to be found)-and secondly, chances are in the context they were first created in, those relationships would have, if anything, simply revered you for your direction (i.e. aspiration, vows, etc.)

I think there is indeed, as you said, controversy over all that in certain circles for just that reason, although it's probably interpreted more from a green worldview/context. Either way, well, it just ain't all your fault. But then from there, I think the important thing is to attempt to honor your turquoise sensitive, be as conscious and aware of that and all it creates in this situation, and attempt to go from there as consciously and with as much "in the moment," now, awareness as possible. Seek the turquoise dharma in the matter, even though, well, you may still be largely left to your own resources. (But, hey, that's a good thing too in a lot of ways. Whatever answer there is going to found within you, so, well, just keep looking that direction.)

But I guess the summation is that I don't want you to be feeling any unnecessary guilt about how you have to handle all this. ( and I do think "have to" is the right way to put it. No, you should not just chuck all those relationships! Not good thing, just as your awareness tell you. Other may say otherwise. But I think your instincts are correct -and even more noble. No? Relationships-which means holons-is going to be a big issue for spirituality and aspiration in an Integral world.) Make every effort to attempt to differentiate what might be Authentic in the situation, and what might just be a construct of the conflicting contexts of the whole thing, and whatever that might cause to arise in your mind that maybe isn't all that useful.

Okay, gave it a shot! (I'll certainly be interested in a continued conversation, but that's just all I can "spit out" in a bit of a rush here. J )

Liz, . . . well, this is easily much more complicated. I admit it, I suppose one of my efforts here as a stand in confessor is to attempt to eliminate as much -as I said above -unnecessary guilt as possible.

You yourself mentioned the differing contexts and I think that's worth looking into a bit more. We are talking about you, but it is certainly a different "past" you in a very different context and with a very different worldview and even tools available to construct on available. What I think I am trying to say with all that is something in the direction of . . . (I'll try my best here) . . . that teenager is just fine with it all, and, I think that's okay. I sense an orange teen that really could take care of and responsibility for herself. (The whole matter of teen sex is so complicated anyway. There are biological issues to be considered, cultural-indeed, the set up of modern western culture over the last few hundred years, or even much less, does add some never before relevant considerations. Even women's liberation from a modern perspective changes the whole thing. Prior to that, well, they'd have just married you off in response to those biological realities.) Okay, anyway, . . .

However, I sense that it's the mother/much-wiser-adult that feels the distress. And? I can't really argue with you. As a parent facing teens soon! . . . I don't know that we have fully comfortable answers -and certainly the more comfortable is to desire that "teen" and "sex" are two words that never have to go together.

I do think there can be some kind of, maybe, better, healthier, more comfortable Integration of these "two selves" of yours. Wilber, mostly in notes in say, Integral Psychology and other books, talks about the "distal self." That is the past self. The most thorough integration of the distal self(s) and the present self is always the best scenario. I don't know what you might find there, but I do have confidence that the two selves can find a newly comfortable, generally guilt free, relational balance. (I don't know, maybe some new "befriending" is in order? Maybe you even "talk" to her like she is your daughter? Cover all the issues, etc. That works in real life, maybe it will in such a matter in interior life. J Oh, boy, and now that I think of it . . . your own mother is a part of your "mother" now . . .and her reaction -and where she may have been right, as well as wrong and too harsh and whatever-is part of what troubles you. Right? I wonder if there are not several birds that could be killed and better reintegrated with "one stone." GOD, I hope I'm not being too personal here! PLEASE Forgive me if I am. But Mom and Dad leave their "scripts" on us, for better or for worse. It's up to us to make tem good ones, the most balnced, correct, right and healthy ones. This is actually quite fascinating . . . crap, what do I need to do!?)

Anyhow, two more thoughts. One, I really do think the folks who "got this out of you" deserve some decent credit. Indeed, they could have been MUCH harder on you and there are certainly lots of stories that I know in similr contexts that did not turn out so well.

And lastly, for whatever it's worth,coming from someone who's a bit younger than you, and from someone who has spent a lot of time around the youth of the generations after me . . . You're story is nothing! HA. They would laugh at you for being so innocent! Terrible sad, but terribly, terribly- T E R R I B L Y true! Trust me on that . . .

Peace, hope to have . . . helped or done something . . . Tim

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://tikiliz.gaia.com — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:14:58 GMT

Dear lol,

Maybe there is something in the air apart from Spring. Time for renewal and all that. On a whim I have made a late booking for weekend retreat at Samye Ling, this will be my first retreat apart from that one with the nuns.

I'm off in about an hour, also to immerse myself in the things I have missed. None of us has the whole jigsaw.

Liz

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://tikiliz.gaia.com — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 00:19:25 GMT

Wow, father lol just got trendy:-)

Should you find yourself on home turf shout, I'd be happy to buy you lunch wearing either cassock or denim, and if we split the distance it shouldn''t be unmanageable.

Of course I'm a staid old lady now and much more reserved, but I do still eat lunch:-)

You know, what you said struck such a chord. I had to have a big church wedding because my parents didn't-my father turned catholic to marry my mother, so his father forbade the family to attend. My dad was one of 9 kids, so that was a lot of family missing. So they had a wee tea in my gran's house.

At both their ruby and golden wedding celebrations we made a big hoo haa with cake and flowers and stuff. My dad cried when they brought the cake out at their golden a few weeks back, he feels responsible they never had the day they should have.

And what is behind it all? Well, my mother's older sister was pregnant when she married, but to cover it up they had the whole event and a premature baby...that's what it was like 50 odd years ago. My mother was, apparently, as pure as the driven snow, and feels she was downgraded.........long standing family dynamics where my mums sister was always the one who could fall in the Clyde and come out with a trout in her pocket. But she always carried the 2 scenes in her head and assumed people wuld reach the opposite conclusion, that she married under a cloud. God it's awful how this stuff travels whole lifetimes with people.......

Sex, guilt, Catholicism, among us, just here in this forum, we could write a book

Love and good luck to you on your journey lol, if you are passing anywhere near, don't be a stranger

Liz

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://ma-rig-pa.gaia.com — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:27:48 GMT

My dear Liz

Sitting in an internet cafe in my new gear -- denim jacket, ''Be The Change You Want To See In The World'' t-shirt and torn 501s, all from the charity shop -- I think taking leave of absence was merely the first step, and that I've actually hung up my cassock for good. Yay!

Far from causing me distress, your confession made me realise how much I'd been filtering the dark roast of life through too thick a filter paper --- none of the rich flavour was making it through.

I've also come to see that my early vocation, nobly naive as it might have been, was more about living out my parents' unconscious dream than any vision of my own. It's not that I didn't or still don't have a vocation .... it just got a little side-tracked and ended up in a cul-de-sac, that's all.

So my mission now is to experience all I've been missing out on, the awesome diversity of life on the other side of the gauze .... have started by doing an 'Internal Alchemy' qi gong retreat and got some juicey jing zinging around .... might just go and have myself one of those Integral Satoris now.

Will call in from elsewhere on my travels .... love and peace to you, sister,

ex-Father Lol

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://tikiliz.gaia.com — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 03:51:25 GMT

Tim.
Please share those thoughts.

LOL, I have never told that story before, not in its entirety at any rate. If it (or I) caused any distress, it wasn't intended.

Please don't disappear on us

Liz

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:38:13 GMT

PS I actually do have further thoughts (perhaps of absolution) for both Colin and Liz

Yes, Father?

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://timelody.gaia.com — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 00:44:07 GMT

Fr. Tim!

You surely have arrived in the nick of time!

I've been given an extended leave of absence as I no longer felt I could carry out my pastoral duties with any integrity.

I have recommended to the Father Superior that you be allowed to shepherd this virtual flock, caring well for their souls. You do seem to be emminently qualified and to possess the requisite missionary zeal.

I'd like to thank you, my erstwhile parishioners, for all your support and advice, but most of all for your good humour.

Spiritus vobiscum

Lol

Well, . . . okay. I'll hear confessions in your stead Fr. Lol.

But I do hope you return soon and rest well in your leave. Our prayers and well wishes will always be with you.

So, . . . My dearest fellow parishioners. In remembrance of the good spirit and pure and worthy heart of Fr. Lol, and by directive of the Father Superior, I humbly offer myself to your service . . .

In the Name of the Father, the Mother, the Son and the Holy Ghost, . . .

The confessional door is always opened . . .

Fr. Tim

PS I actually do have further thoughts (perhaps of absolution) for both Colin and Liz

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://ma-rig-pa.gaia.com — Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:28:43 GMT

Blessings, sister.

May you be free from suffering and the causes of suffering -- even if growing pains are another matter :)

May you experience abundant love, joy and happiness in your life, and be a cause of that in others.

May you be finally, finally free.

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://Mascha.gaia.com — Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:21:09 GMT

Was? You're leaving us, Father Lol? Adrift in a sea of muddy Nile waters and uncertainty?

Hrrmph!

Before you retire, I just wanted to say, Bless me, Father, and I'll bless you.

That's all.

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://ma-rig-pa.gaia.com — Wed, 28 Mar 2007 05:05:38 GMT

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://timelody.gaia.com — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 00:50:52 GMT

Alright, now I am confused!

I am going to go back and read this thread again, and then read the message you sent to me Lol to try and make sense of it all. (Part of it has to do< I think, in part, with the fact that i don't know you quite well enough Lol, to understand exactly where you're generally coming from in this scant cyber-world of a community. But anyway . . .)

However, at first blush, I do think this is interesting. Somehow, this confessional has brought about some kind of transformation in YOU. I see this as a sort of hitherto unrecognized truth -at least from an amber standpoint and certainly a strictly amber Catholic standpoint. That truth, basically, priesthood is for the priest! far more than it could ever be for the congregation! Somewhere in here is a wonderful miracle of agency in communion (and capitalize that if you want).

There's even a Pollyanna type truth here too: the minister transformed by the congregation rather than the other way around.

Though I still do not believe I have a full handle on what exactly is going on here, I will say one more thing.

Lol, I would err to the side of (actually, just as you said) some kind of a profound Subtle recognition that occurred. I know what it is too. I've been there . . . In fact we are all there now, we just don't normally notice it.

There is a reason St. Theresa practiced self-mortification regularly despite by all other accounts being one the most wonderful and Good people imaginable.

Somewhere on the Subtle . . . . I'm not even going to describe it, at least not just now. But what I will say is that somewhere on (in) the Subtle, . . . well, some Truth about what we in the West and particularly because of Catholicism call Sin, indeed becomes revealed . . .

. . . and it's bad too. Lord God, it's bad.

Why? Here is my take on it.

Because what is beyond that on the Subtle, the very fabric of this universe (in that regard) is so utterly Innocent, and so utterly Loving and so utterly Humbly Loving and Innocent and Embracing (of All) and so, so, so . . . I'm out of words . . .

. . . that our very best efforts here on the gross physical frontal egoic realm just could never, ever, ever, measure . . . and because we recognize that this is an aspect of our True Nature (in whatever way, however it is interpreted) . . . all we can be is sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry . . . and despite our sorrow, we still will never be able to wipe away the sin . . .

I want to share that I recognized this with the simplest act I once "committed" of trying to "help" someone . . . (it was theoretical-spiritual, etc.) . . . and I suddenly saw the EGOITY of it all . . . the pure and utter heartless RAPE of it all . . . Who in the WORLD did I think I was trying to "teach" somebody anything!? . . . It was so obvious that I forced it on this person -although, just like Liz said above . . . by all other accounts, most people would have said "You're a great good person! You didn't do anything wrong! You're a nice guy!"

There is a reason St. Theresa practiced self-mortification despite by all other accounts being such an outstanding person . . .

So, does any of this ring true to you at this point?

Hoping I am not once again raping the utter Innocence of the Universe . . . although it's probably true, unfortunately, that I am. (And so Mother/Father, forgive me!)

Oh well! Causal Emptiness solves all these problems anyway! :-)

In Peace,

Fr. Tim

(Yes, I do believe that I was a priest - in a previous life. . . . Which might in part be why I have so many kids in this one! Baby-making is fun!!!:-0 )

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://tikiliz.gaia.com — Sun, 25 Mar 2007 23:41:28 GMT

Dear father Lol,

It was not my intention to add to your confusion in these troubling matters, however that smidgeon of contrition is sadly lacking. You see, part of me thinks I had the measure of the whole messy business around that time (no pun intended) and it REALLY was not that big a deal. In fact rather than regret the simple clarity of that time, I suspect if I could return to it I'd be a happy camper. YOu see, now it would be a great -big-deal .

Of course if we'd had a proper youth club I would have played table tennis instead, but in a working class community life is such that one is thrown on one's own resources and expected to make one's own entertainment :-)

However I do appreciate your reaction was not one of shock and horror and I am so relieved not to have been condemned to eternal damnation straight off. 3 Our Fathers and 5 Hail Mary's seems like a reasonable precaution, the 3 to honour my Irish side (to be sure, to be sure, to be sure)

If you would permit me to comment though, it seems your own situation was very similar, it is all a question of dealing with whatever resources are at hand, in whatever situation you find yourself. It is very unfortunate that your enterprising spirit was not recognised and appropriately honoured. How we are shaped by those around us.........

Rather than a solitary vigil, dear Father Lol, I suggest you share that vigil and use the time err...more productively. You may be very tired by morning, but you will be able to rest, knowing that green aura has been cast aside. I will pray for blinding light and the moving of the earth for you

Liz

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://ma-rig-pa.gaia.com — Sun, 25 Mar 2007 21:27:39 GMT

My dear son, it is surely I who have erred. Even though today my mind does not seem to be my own, I cannot but see that it was my own hubris that urged our brother Tim to inspire you into joining with him on the steps of the Capitol to sing the Agnus Dei.

Who am I to think that someone such as yourself, who isn't bound by the One True Faith ... oh my God, what am I saying? ... .... forgive me Lord, I know no longer what I am doing ... or saying .... by Thor's hammer I will see this through .... where was I? .. oh yes, when I was thinking of you and what I'd asked brother Tim to try and get you to do, I remembered that old joke that I never used to be able to see any humour in at all, the one about the Catholics living in a small part of Heaven surrounded by a high wall because they thought they were the only ones there ... well, this morning, when I remembered it I laughed til I cried. And then I cried til I ended up laughing. I don't know what is happening to me, my son. Perhaps I should join you in the Zen hall and gaze at the space in front of the wall until things become clearer.

Father Lol

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://ma-rig-pa.gaia.com — Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:34:22 GMT

Bless you my daughter, but on this day I simply do not feel worthy to mediate for our Lord and pronounce penance.

Today I woke up to a most unusual state of affairs. As I came into waking consciousness I was aware I was seeing things in an entirely different light, in fact through my half-closed eyes the light in the room did seem to have a greenish hue, something I just couldn't fathom, and my perspective on what is right and wrong no longer appeared to be so certain or so incontrovertible.

I did maybe have rather more green Chartreuse to drink last night than I ought, perhaps this has something to do with it, but if things continue as they are I fear I must do penance myself, and go into solitary retreat, spending the dark hours of the night in vigil before our Lord on the cross, begging his forgiveness for all the strange thoughts that have invaded my mind.

Please, my daughter, do pray hard for the salvation of this sinner's soul. And do say three Our Fathers and five Hail Marys for the safety of your own soul, just in case - there's no harm in erring on the side of caution, t'be sure. And if you can find a smidgeon of contrition for your earlier escapades that'd be even better.

In confusion,

Father Lol

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:58:20 GMT

Fr. Lol, in the spirit of contrition and in honor of your vision, I am curious about this, but unsure of my part. Waiting, I suppose, is my next step.

Betwixt and between, these roles are splayed and lay exposed for all to see...

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://tikiliz.gaia.com — Wed, 21 Mar 2007 19:30:23 GMT

Bless me father lol................I too have sinned..............

And yes, I was raised Catholic too. I remember in ,my last year at school a group of us, all girls, went on a weekend retreat to a local convent. We weren't particularly devout, just at that age where any excuse for a parentless weekend is appealing. So off we all went to Newmains Convent, about 10 miles from home.

There were lots of sessions taken by the one nun, all about growing up and relationships, fairly predictably the "should you" or "should you wait" question was discussed a lot. Of course, I wanted this woman to explain WHY? Like if sex is about love, how do you love someone more just because they stuck a ring on your finger? WHY wouldn't you want to sleep together? WHY would it be sinful? WHY is it a big deal? WHy would God care?

I guess I must have asked WHY? once too often-I was summoned to a private meeting, asked about whether I had a boyfriend, how long I had been going out with him etc etc. We pursued the debate some more, I wasn't convinced by anything she said.

So I was invited (summoned) to another private meeting, this time with the priest. I had been discussed with him. So we had some wee chats about my potential future husband and the reasons I should "keep myself pure"...this went on for quite a long time.

Meeting no 3 was interesting. The pair of them had obviously got together, and I was called back to see them both. Time for the confrontation. Basically, the accusation was "We think you've done it" Yeah, course I had, as had most of friends hiding upstairs waiting to see if the roof was about to blow off, while they prayed piously and pretended innocence. So, Mary and lol , I was really bad. I lost my virginity on the 6th of January 1973 (Epiphany:-)
and for those of you who can't count, that was exactly 10 days before my 15th birthday.

Actually they were pretty cool, relieved I had only one partner, talked a bit about the risks of sleeping around, sensibly talked about the emotional risks of getting too involved in the kind of relationship you were maybe not mature enough to handle. They asked about contraception, i told them i was on the pill. They advised me to stay on it, they thought I'd have a much better future without a baby to take care of. Obvioulsy didn't think there was much point in locking the errr stable door at that stage :-)

I wish my mother had been as understanding. She found my appointment card for the Family planning clinic (I was working by this time)......that was the day i found out my mother knew all those swear words i thought she didn't, and she called me all of them. She then waved the half used pack at me, saying "And you must have been having a rare old time, look how many are gone!" I didn't think that was the time to explain how they were actually taken. Oh then she called my boyfriend on the phone and demanded to speak to his mother
(this terrible sin happened pretty regularly in her house as they went out every Saturday).
Fortunately, by this time he had also left school and was conveniently an apprentice electrician. The telephone in his house didn't receive any incoming calls for a week or two, after he disconnected a wire:-)

So I sinned, he sinned, (It was 8 days before his 16th birthday, so I guess I could have been done for statutory rape)and we had a house of sin, at least on Saturday nights.It was all young and giggly and full of fun and as far as I can see completely harmless. However, if you wish to pronounce my penance, father Lol, I will atone as best I can.

Liz

Liz

Re: Confessions of a seminarian ... pss, the confessional is this

http://ma-rig-pa.gaia.com — Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:54:14 GMT

"I'll be waiting for my penitence Fr. Lol!"

Tim, my son, I fear the Lord may yet still be waiting for your penitence. But fear not overly, my son, His mercy is indeed boundless.

I have been away ministering to my flock in the furthest reaches of our virtual parish. Last night the Lord visited me in a dream, in the form of a flaming dove, ablaze with light, and revealed to me your penance.

You are required to use properly the gift of your spiritual intelligence, bestowed upon you through Our Lord's infinite love and compassion, and lead your brother Colin into the True Way.

As a sign of your true penitence, you will exhort and inspire Colin to join with you on the steps of Capitol Hill, there to sing the Agnus Dei from Faure 's "Messe Basse":

Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem

Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world, have mercy on us
Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world, have mercy on us
Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world, grant us peace