Gaia: The Integral Pod - Chapel Perspicacious - IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://co-mason.gaia.com — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:00:00 GMT

In balancing subtle energies, feelings, and emotions I have found deep relaxed breathing to be the most effective. There the inhale is deep and long, and the exhale long, relaxed and effortless.

It can be done best lying on a mat without a pillow under your head in the beginning stages. The awareness is focused on keeping the breathing slow, deep and relaxed while I simultaneously observe in an accepting way the bodily sensations and feelings appearing. I let my awareness rest on these sensations. This is a very effective way for me to work with intense fear, heavy feelings in the chest area, anger, and also uncomfortable physical sensations, and mild to moderate pain anywhere in the body.

When you do this practice correctly there is very little room for thoughts like what I might be afraid of etc. The focus is totally in the breathing and bodily sensations and feelings. When I get access to deep fear the process can become very enjoyable and during nighttime I can spend two to three hours that way dancing with fear ecstatically. Here you must remember that practice makes a master, and I have been practicing this for over 20 years. For me also during these breathing sessions spontaneously deep nondual meditative states become activated. When I rest firmly in the nondual bliss-state these processes become much easier. Pain and fear is perceived differently than in normal waking state. And all the time I rest firmly in the ‘I am'. The whirlwinds cannot move me. I just witness and feel them.

However I have not been able to use this approach effectively tin working with some other kinds of subtle energies. I described in my earlier post the spontaneously emerging activations of the second chakra that were too intense for me. Iintense bliss, and very pleasurable sensations around the second chakra is involved. there. When this activation has been going on many hours during a night, it starts to be too much for me. It becomes unbearable, and I want it desperately to stop, but it won't. Here the deep breathing with the attention resting in an accepting way on the sensations just makes things worse. Actually firm resistance seems to work better in this area. I have tried many kinds of approaches, for example getting up from bed and starting cleaning the house.

The best results however I have gained through focusing to transform these blissful, pleasurable energies to very harsh and coarse one's. That is very heavy work and intense focusing is needed to get any results at all. Last august, when I was again doing this with relatively modest success, I suddenly felt as if somebody else interfered and did it for me, and did it much more effectively than I ever had been able to. I could just relax and enjoy the very coarse energies for two hours. Since then there has not been these too powerful activations of the second chakra. The process has been much better balanced on that front too. Actually the too intense blissful and pleasurable sensations have been more difficult for me than working with physical pain or suppressed subtle emotions and intense fear.

During the intense process or shift I have gone through starting Dec 1999 there has been all the time present a deep inner knowing or deep trust in the process. For me these are two slightly different ways of looking at the same phenomenon. This inner knowingness has been present also the two earlier times, when I have been consciously witnessing a radical shift in the structures of the functioning of my mind. During these processes I haven't perceived anything I would have called psychic being. Evolutionary impulse, or deep inner knowing feel like more accurate expressions for me. And then of course, in recent years there has been these very subtle voices appearing from deep inside.

Life is a flow for me. I'm not especially ambitious. I have just been doing things as life has brought them in front of me, tasks that I have perceived need to be done. I'm drawn to do things. I seldom really make choices. I gravitate towards solutions. Paradoxically however I'm also quite disciplined in many practical duties. It is inbuilt in me. Nowadays I love to do many kinds of physical exercise like astanga yoga, pilates and swimming. These take a lot of my time, and I'm quite regular in those practices. I'm also a health food enthusiast and quite selective in what I eat. This disciplined behavior however appears naturally and spontaneously without control. I believe that trying to control one's behavior like eating creates serious problems. Controlling, trying to become, and trying to be somebody are behavioral modes that are very potent in creating pathologies, as is also the opposite mode of indifference.

Only during this latest process I have clearly seen how my appreciation of certain structures and forms has molded the end result from the many possibilities at present in the beginning. Through my appreciations and preferences an inner therapist and a board of internal advisers with many different perspectives got incorporated in the structures of my mind. Often it feels like it would be more correct to say: ‘we have come to the conclusion ...' instead of ‘I have come to the conclusion ....'.

Irmeli and the Board of Advisers

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://monk.gaia.com — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:35:54 GMT

That sounds like a great summation to me, Irmeli. You really put it all together very nicely. Yes, without fear--Rumi said, "Move from within, but don't move the way fear makes you go." You do an especially nice job of integrating the use of the mind in the process without contradiction.

What have you found helpful in terms of balancing subtle energies? How do you manage that?

With regard to Aurboindo, you first of all would need to like/resonate with the Hindu/Advaita Vedanta terminology, "the Mother," "the Divine," etc. I happen to kind of like it, though it's not really a part of my everyday language. The "psychic"--Ken Wilber said that sometimes the creative impulse looks to him like the evolutionary impulse or eros, and sometimes like the deeper psychic or psychic being. Do you see that sometimes there is a psychic "knowing" that precedes action and sometimes not the psychic knowing but just sort of a flow? It's an interesting distinction. By psychic I think Aurobindo is refering to the psychic knowing, but he may be referring to both. Sometimes without the psychic knowing it seems like you're just off into experimental land. I'm not really sure what he means by "original Conscience." Maybe he's referring to unadorned evolutionary intelligence or maybe soul conscience rather than frontal self/ego/animalistic conscience. By "Divine" I suppose he means both the original essence as well as the evolutionary impulse, and sometimes also what is Good, True, Beautiful, etc.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://co-mason.gaia.com — Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:47:54 GMT

David,

thank you for your suggestion to see the video clip of Ken and Andrew discussing "Trust and the Creative Principle". There were many ideas I could relate to.

Especially I recognized in me, that when something new is emerging, it is felt like an ecstatic creative compulsion without fear. One is just powerfully drawn somewhere, and there is a deep basic trust in the process. However occasionally the personal "I" starts to evaluate the risks and craziness of what is going on, and it has no idea where this might lead to, and feels fear. However the deeper self just doesn't care, and that is in charge. It is happy to be in the service of the force of evolution irrespective of the risks of heading towards an unknown and scary territory.

This is valid however only in regard to the overall process I'm drawn to.

In the details reason, rationality, and common sense are invaluable tools, when evaluating the perceptions my mind makes, and the sensations and energies felt in the body, Through my interpretations I can participate in co-creating something new, and make the emerging new as functional as possible in very practical ways. One way to do this is as Ken suggests to check out how this emerging new stuff or structure affects the four quadrants in your life. The first perceptions or interpretations should not be taken as given.s. When something new is emerging there is often a rather intense period of felt inner turmoil and whirlwind. The end result is very much dependent on how I am capable of balancing these often very intense new subtle energies. It is also very much dependent on the conceptual framework through which I see the world and interpret my observations and sensations. This is why Ken's work is very important. It gives us a much more comprehensive framework than anything else I have stumbled on so far.

I had some difficulties in relating to the quotes from Aurobindo. I'm not familiar with his work. And I don't know what he exactly means by concepts like psychic, divine, original Conscience etc.

Irmeli

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://monk.gaia.com — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 03:12:30 GMT

Irmeli, thank you for your fascinating post. We really need Ken for this question. If you ask me, promptings deeper than the personal self should issue from freedom and peace, complete unwoundedness and unworriedness and unneediness (not always easy to do). Andrew Cohen calls the psychic being/deeper psychic/authentic self "the ecstatic evolutionary impulse." It cares about evolution, what's best for everyone and everything. Ken calls it the "seat of conscience."

I just remembered--we do have a few words on this from Ken. Ken and Andrew spoke in Denver, and one of the questions was something like, "How do we know that what we surrender to is for the sake of a better future?" or something like that. And both Ken and Andrew answer it. Ken answers that it should be hitting all four quadrants if it's healthy, that one should step back and see that one is engaging all quadrants. He also talks about trust. Andrew gives a more metaphorical answer as I remember. You can hear and see their answers here. I believe it's in the section titled "Trust and the Creative Principle." It's definitely somewhere in there if it's not there. You'll have to register, but you can get it for free for 15 days.

If you ask me, other voices, as I said earlier in the thread, should not be mistaken for anything very high or deep and could be pathological. Jung was confused about this as well. He talked about having arguements with voices inside and related them as mystical experiences. You remember the Buddhist quote, "If you see the Buddha, kill it"? If it's not pathological, it's just subtle stuff and isn't any place to linger. Ignore it, kill it, whatever it takes, move on.

I pasted a few more quotes from Aurobindo on the subject below.

"The feelings and aspirations of the psychic being are all turned towards truth and right consciousness and the Divine; it is the only part that cannot be touched by the hostile forces and their suggestions."

"It is this secret psychic entity which is the true original Conscience in us deeper than the constructive and conventional conscience of the moralist, for it is this which points always towards Truth, and Right, and Beauty, towards Love, and Harmony and all that is a divine possibility in us, and persists till these things become the major need of our nature."

"The only grain of truth in your statement is that the yoga is very usually a series of ups and downs till you get to a certain height. But there is a quite different reason for that - not the vagaries of the soul. On the contrary, when the psychic being gets in front and becomes master, there comes in a fundamentally smooth action and although there are difficulties and undulations of movement, these are no longer of an abrupt or dramatic character."

"Nothing done in the past or present can prevent the psychic from coming forward if there is the true will to get rid of these things and live in the psychic and spiritual consciousness."

David

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://co-mason.gaia.com — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:46:50 GMT

Big part of my comment got cut away. I'll try again!

I have with enthusiasm been reading the excellent essays in this thread and slowly also whenever I have found time the voluminous following discussion. Especially I have got fascinated by the conflict arisen between Julian and many others. Someone expressed his disappointment by claiming that this thread is dead now, because of this conflict. For me it is very much alive because of the conflict.

Julian has felt the others cannot hear him, and many who have responded to his posts say he cannot hear them. People want to be heard, understood. It is a very basic need. It seems to me that while Julian talks about dogs, many others talk about cats. Both parts think they are describing the same animal, and when they cannot agree, they think the other one must have wrong here. It may be also that Julian has never seen cats, and many others dogs, because of their natural inclinations.

I think Julian has got stuck in his theme of the importance of rationality, because the group here partly fails in confirming him. And he is yearning for that, because he feels his description of dogs is correct. No one actually has been able to prove him otherwise, because they talk about cats. People can have climbed almost on the same altitude on the mountain from different directions, but when they explain the scenery they see to each other, it is quite different. And they cannot understand each other, and start to fight whose view is the correct one. This is what I perceive to be happening here.

I don't think there is one path, or one direction from which to start climbing the mountain that is the best for all types of people independent of their inclinations.

To make this more palpable I'll explain it through my own life experience. I have been and still am in many ways like Julian myself. In other words: why very strict rationality has been and still is a good and SAFE tool to me.

I have all my life been a person with strong adherence to rationality. This has been an inherent tendency in me, not something I have consciously chosen at some point in this life time. At least I cannot remember that kind of decision being made. Maybe therefore I also chose to study engineering, even though my actual interest were completely elsewhere.

I'm also a person with an inclination to subtle level psychic experiences. And I have been interpreting these subtle level experiences as rationally as I can. By rationality I don't mean just simple cause effect relationships. Rationality means to me also that I don't take my perceptions as a fact. I understand that a perception is always already an interpretation. I can also accept the fact that I don't know for sure, I don't understand. I feel it is important not to draw too hasty conclusions from one's observations. It is better to allow multiple and even contradictory perspectives to appear. The occasion may also have different truths in different worldspaces. Often the perspective I communicate to others depends very much on the worldspace they occupy.

After learning meditation at age 23, I very fast got access into very deep states through it. Also many kinds of subtle level perceptions appeared. At all times I could not quite keep the strict rationality, but the rationality in me was so strong, that I did not easily accept as facts these perceptions. Or I felt I had no certainty about their validity and they became more like possibilities and likelihoods rather than facts.

With truth I mean often something that really works, and delivers functioning solutions. You know, I'm an engineer. Engineers have to deliver functioning devices and systems. They leave theorizing to others, and rather want make practical functioning applications of the theories or revelations. If they cannot be made, it maybe that the theory or approach doesn't describe reality truthfully.

In 1980 I started to have periods of new type of subtle level experiences. During these I often felt intense bliss and ecstasy. These experiences lasted from a few days to maybe two weeks. I did nothing consciously to create this internal bliss myself. I also felt I was connected to other people, or sensed the presence of others through this bliss. On those times I was also receiving powerful suggestions to do this and that. These ideas vanished, when the flow of heightened bliss did go away. Through those suggestions and images appearing to my mind I got some idea about what kind of cultural background those to whom I possibly was connected to had. These experiences reappeared rather regularly during the next 20 years. I did not obey the internally received suggestions accompanying these times of heightened bliss. As a good rationalist I was observing this phenomenon inside my mind also as a structuralist. I tried to find recurring patterns in this phenomenon, and was not totally identifying with the subtle mental content appearing. The most powerful experiences appeared always during the Hindu Guru Purnima celebrations in July. Another regular time was around my birthday in December. And then there were some other occasions during the year, I was not so sure, which pattern they followed. Observing the phenomenon also with rationality as a tool did not stop these experiences, but it kept me from getting lost with these suggestions and temptations appearing inside my mind. When the period of intense bliss and felt subtle connection was gone, also the ideas, images, and suggestions that appeared during these periods were gone to appear again during the next period of felt intense subtle connection. These episodes recurred regularly for 20 years, however being weaker in the 90's. And I never did anything to consciously activate them or to keep them going.

In December 1999 the intense flow of blissful subtle energies appeared again, now stronger than ever. I had just fallen in love. Possibly the precise timing of these two occurrences made the experience so especially ecstatic. Now it did not stop after two weeks, but continued. Not as ecstatically, but the feeling of bliss, strong flow of subtle energies through the body, and a clear feeling of the presence of another or others was there all the time. It has now continued for 7 years, 24 hours a day. I guess it has become a permanent stage for me, from where there has been no returning back.

A lot has happened internally during this seven year period. I'm still a strict rationalist. Without adherence to simple reasoning and common sense I could not have kept my sanity in what followed.

After the continuous flow of bliss and felt internal presence had been going on for a year, I started gradually to discern a subtle male voice appearing from deep inside. This voice was polite and very intelligent. I fell in love with him. And powerful sexual activations of the second chakra appeared internally on the subtle level. At first I enjoyed very much these experiences. It was just amazing to be capable of being deeply lovingly connected to another being this way, to a person whom I had never met on the gross physical plane, but whom I felt to be very close to me, and was also having fantastic sexual experiences with him. This good phase however did not last too long. The activations of the second chakra started to become too intense for me. Also other male voices appeared. Some of them started to fight with each other who is the king of this space. Also at some point female voices appeared. I had difficulties to stand those voices. They were always trying to prove me how much more they had their heart open than I had. Always comparing themselves with me, and trying to prove their superiority. Luckily they endured only for a few months.

Many of the male presences had also strong ideas about females having to be submissive to males, so they started submissiveness training with me. But I cannot be made submissive to some males, or to conform to patterns of behavior I perceive to be pathological. And I cannot surrender myself to two masters. In my awakening experience at age 16 I surrendered myself to the deep intelligence behind all manifest creation. I'm guided by That. This intelligence is beyond all manifest forms, mental ideas, images, subtle energies, independent of however subtle they are.

When I could not be made submissive with gentle persuasion, they tried to do it by force. Their means were rather cruel. I ended up periodically to total internal warfare with them. First I tried to get them understand my position, my human rights. It gave no results. At some point I started trying to kill them to make them disappear from my mind. I did kill them internally in many different ways, but always the entities reappeared. I however observed that they did not like my killing efforts, and that encouraged me further. I did everything I observed they did not like. And I started to enjoy the killing. For whatever minor disturbance I felt might be coming from them I started the killing equipped with all kinds of imaginary weaponry: sharp knifes, axes, stones etc. It was fun, but rather heavy work..

These presences inside my mind however started to show capacity of learning. They apparently understood that their strategies lead only to continuous fight with me, submissive I won't become. They have gradually become much more co-operative. For a long time now I have been hearing only one very subtle voice inside. He is very loving and empathetic, and is my internal therapist. I love him very much. I also sense his presence as a warm loving glow in my heart chakra. However I can also sense the presence of other entities inside my mind in the very subtle domain. However my capacity to take different perspectives has increased a lot with these presences. Somehow their perspectives are available to me at least to some extent. I have always disliked writing. It has not been easy for me to express myself in that way. These entities however periodically powerfully push me to write on forums like this, and help me to find proper expressions in English. I follow their suggestions, when it makes some sense to me. Writing clearly helps me to clarify my thoughts and understanding. They have also helped me to observe new ways of doing things, and to observe my less useful habitual patterns. I'm in good terms with these presences nowadays. I have seen that the benefits are much bigger than some inconveniences that occasionally appear .

If I'm honest to my perceptions and observations I have to admit that my mind seems to overlap with the mind of some others. Or I partly share it with many others. Still I'm the one who is in charge inside my mind. The presences near me have to be supportive to me, or they get at some point thrown out. This is true also on the level of subtle body. The subtle body energy flows are not created by me alone. I seem to co-create them with others, whom I have never met on the gross physical level. These subtle energy flows form a network of communication between different entities having their own gross physical bodies. I think there has to be a connecting field of information. An other possibility is that my mind is a separate space. When the "I" evolves, more and more structures that earlier where embedded in the "I" become objects in my mind, or me, or mine. Perceiving the presence of other presences inside my mind could also be a pathological dissociation in the "I". I cannot however perceive this as pathological because there are real practical benefits.

It has taken me time to get some clarity of these subtle phenomenon. I started from the feeling of being at the mercy of unpredictable inner activations of subtle energy flows. I felt I had no part in creating them. I was more like a receiver. I have often felt like a Plato's woman in a cave, who tries to make sense of this subtle world just from shadows cast on the wall. In this circus it has been of great help to be a strict structuralist and rationalist.

And how can I know that this new stage that has now been there permanently for the last 7 years is not some sort of pathological regression or hallucination? I have asked this question myself many times. First because it is more inclusive. I have clearly improved in my capacity to simultaneously hold many even opposing perspectives without feeling there being a conflict. The earlier stages have not been lost. They are included. During this period my external life has been flowing relatively harmoniously. My health and my stamina have improved a lot. Many people at my age observe their health and stamina starts to deteriorate.

It feels incomprehensibly good to feel a loving presence of another in your heart. It is amazing to be capable of having occasionally heavenly sex with this other. This sex is not about imagining and dreaming. There are no mental images involved. It is just subtle energy flowing, and activation of the second chakra and the felt loving presence. And it is just fantastic to have an internal therapist, always empathetically taking my position in difficult situations, but also pointing out my blind spots, and helping me to find my hidden motives. And it feels good to be helped in working through, and learning to embrace difficult emotions and unpleasant sensations in the gross physical body.

As odd as it may sound also the period of internal warfare and killing was very beneficial for me. I got connected to, and started to own the very cruel primal level energies inside me. I have kind of owned the devil inside me. I'm nowadays much less annoyed by the stupidity and rough energies of people in the external world. I have got the idiots inside my mind including myself.

Almost all my adult life I have been in different kinds of intense inner processes, some of which have been quite tumultuous. At the same time my external life in the gross domain has been pretty stable and harmonious. I have been married to my dear husband for 36 years. We have two adult sons and now also a lovely grandson. Our economy has been all the time stable and good etc. I'm also a Freemason, and at present I'm in the role of the worshipful master leading my lodge for the fourth year.

I have a close friend, a spiritual teacher, who has also had some strong subtle level psychic experiences. She has allowed the felt inner subtle guidance to direct her life often irrespective of how irrational it may be. She has divorced her husbands, traveled around the world, and lived in many different countries etc. Periodically she has felt being overtaken by other entities, which phenomenon she calls being overtaken by 'walkings'. During those periods she has always changed her name, and claimed she has had no childhood, because she has come to an adult body etc. Economically she is doing poorly . Often when she has got something going relatively successfully, inner guidance appears telling her to go to some other place. She is getting older now. Her health starts failing, she is very poor, and cannot easily find a job to support her. She is too sensitive to do ordinary work amongst the harsh energies she perceives among ordinary people. She has never felt any problems in leaving rationality behind her, for her it is a lower level faculty. I perceive her to be learning lessons in a very hard and slow way. Disappointment after disappointment, and she cannot figure out why. However I respect her path. My path would not be possible for her.

And one thing is sure a less rational person with some religious background would have created again quite different perceptions or interpretations. Also I suspect that the end result would have been very different.

Irmeli

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://co-mason.gaia.com — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:16:54 GMT

I don't think there is one path, or one direction from which to start climbing the mountain that is the best for all types of people independent of their inclinations.

A lot has happened internally during this seven year period. I'm still a strict rationalist. Without adherence to simple reasoning and common sense I could not have kept my sanity in what followed.

If I'm honest to my perceptions and observations I have to admit that my mind seems to overlap with the mind of some others. Or I partly share it with many others. Still I'm the one who is in charge inside my mind. The presences near me have to be supportive to me, or they get at some point thrown out. This is true also on the level of subtle body. The subtle body energy flows are not created by me alone. I seem to co-create them with others, whom I have never met on the gross physical level. These subtle energy flows form a network of communication between different entities having their own gross physical bodies. I think there has to be a connecting field of information. An other possibility is that my mind is a separate space. When the ”I” evolves, more and more structures that earlier where embedded in the ”I” become objects in my mind, or me, or mine. Perceiving the presence of other presences inside my mind could also be a pathological dissociation in the ”I”. I cannot however perceive this as pathological because there are real practical benefits.

Irmeli

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 19:59:06 GMT

Oh! I didn't offer a sacrifice to any angry gods, so perhaps that explains it!

I'm not attached to them posting mine. (I'm not attached to much these days.) And, see, my ego has already come up with an explanation: marketing! I've got a couple other rationales that I won't divulge. It's all just mind muckety-muck anyway that I watch pass through awareness with a smile. 8P

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://timelody.gaia.com — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 19:50:51 GMT

Or they posted mine just to appease a boisterous angry god! Bwah ha ha ha ha! (then again, there's always the chance this was a pity-post.)

Interesting though -perhaps there will still be a time for yours, Colin? (But if not, I would go for option 2.)

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 19:46:07 GMT

Congrats, Tim!

Interesting, though. I sent mine in after I saw Ewan's posted. Either I'm not brilliant, or I don't align with their marketing agenda. I go for option 2! Hehe.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://timelody.gaia.com — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 16:59:35 GMT

No Ewan - when they post your blog it's a confirmation of brilliance. When they post mine it's just evidence of what can happen when you have money, power and "friends" in high places. :-p

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://ewantownhead.gaia.com — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:59:12 GMT

Tim published on Ken's Blog!

Another confirmation of Tim's brillianece. And another indication of the quality and integrity of the blogopalooza!

Nice work bud!

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://melv.gaia.com — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:52:14 GMT

A lot of these micro-we-space-scenarios coming off this blogopalooza have been played out very similarly in my job, including the presence of people who draw me up with their accomplished embodyment of love in action, and one of them, who is my boss, the first one ive had who's authority i fully respect.
In two conversation i came away with two very simple but large realisations.

One, and this goes for authority, dialogue, conversation and life: ''If you listen, I/we listen''

The second was just the realisation that sometimes we have to play someone's game, as many/all attempts at fully honest and authentic dialogue are currently not possible with that person at the moment.

I fully agree with Balder and others that this pod is maturing....

Nice stuff!

Melv

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://ericonline.gaia.com — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:28:28 GMT

David quoting Almaas:

“We sometimes referred to the narcissistic wound as the “emptiness wound.” This wound opens us up to emptiness, to nothingness. It opens us to the nothingness of the dissolution of the self. No wonder it evokes such terror, which sometimes we feel as the fear of death. It is the ultimate fear of disintegration and disappearing. The vague sense of dread that we felt before we were directly aware of the wound becomes an immense terror, as the wound opens up to emptiness. It is here that we understand the existential dread and terror unique to narcissism…”

The wound seeks temporary relief in the first and second tier we spaces via elimination and exclusion e.g. “fight or flight” literally and figuratively. (Notice the arguing, announced leavings and the rationalized attempts at sanitization of the we space here and elsewhere.)

Anger deflects awareness tangentially away from the wound and the energy of the wound is dissipated centrifugally as in the above. In healing the wound, calm and concentration are the key centripetal agents. Calm allows the crucible of concentration to form in which the intense energy of the wound can be held and investigated. The energy of the wound manifests thru desire e.g. I like it or I don’t like it. The release of this energy is triggered by sensation. That is, the wound is sensitive to and bounded by sensory disturbance. Awareness resists looking into the wound because it hurts. The wound seems a felt barrier passed thru prior to apprehending the clear light emptiness. And so like a moth to a flame, the self immolates in the intense energy of the wound before apprehending the clear light emptiness.

peace & love,

e

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 15:05:16 GMT

On extending the benefit of doubt:

Another view of Julian is that he simply resonates with those that enjoy engaging in a Socratic dialectic. This energy is rarely concerned with Right Speech, and that's just fine for those that enjoy that. I see it as more of a cock fight where puffed up egos engage in a battle of intellects, dazzling each other with displays of word wizardry and theoretical arguments. It's oh-so-agentic, and I have witnessed it arise with a mature ethos. More often, though, I see it arise with a pathological element that takes joy in mocking others' thoughts in an egocentric dance. Again, that's fine if you find a sparring partner who consensually engages in that with you. What we have seen in this thread and others is that many people here either no longer find joy in that energy or never did. So, really, it comes down to fit, not right or wrong, necessarily. Julian (and perhaps Joe by self-selection) just doesn't fit in with the predominant group that has aligned in this pod that is deeply concerned with Right Speech and we-space. I'm sure there's somewhere out there in zaadz (his blog, at minimum) where he can happily engage in Socratic toe stepping ad infinitum.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://undercovertranssexual.gaia.com — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 14:40:06 GMT

Hello all.

I often miss out on so much over the weekend! My time then is more about engaging with the touchable world, but I always have this space coming in and out of my mind.

I love the unfolding of this discussion. It got a bit messy there for awhile. Thanks to those who have settled into their higher voices to bring some healing energy into this beloved we-space.

I was PMing with someone about the current situation and had this to say, which I felt was relevant enough to include here:

I loved this: It was / is my own dark shadow that would like to see him [Julian] to SEE ; -)
Mmm. Yes! That resonated for me a bit; though when I check internal realities, for me it's more about witnessing this phenomenon in Julian with a rather detached patience. The trouble I have is when I see the wake in his path; that's more where my shadow comes up: concern for the we-space, as stated by some others recently in the I-I pod. As if there's some breakable, precious space that could actually be ruined by one or a few people. Then again, that is possible, too; at least, temporarily.

It was only after witnessing the wake of Julian for months that I started speaking up about Right Speech after his VATech post. And I am not overly triggered (a little!) by those in the Blogopalooza thread that are questioning whether a group of us have ganged up to marginalize him. That's a good concern to raise, and I see it more as a natural phenomenon (what isn't?!) that arises as a mirror in dualistic tension. I love being able to see systemic tendencies or probability waves, as Ken calls them.

So, David, in response to your most recent comment: I did not jump on the bandwagon in response to one post of his. I did so after, like many others have said, months of watching a sort of toxic dynamic arise between Julian and MANY others, in different threads and on different people's blogs. I take raising concerns about the behavior of people very, very seriously. It is not something I do out of shadow (rarely happens, but does now and then) when I step forward in this way; it is something that I have spent much time considering in terms of whether to step forward and how to do it (Right Speech!).

I am deeply appreciative of the response-able comments that many have made in the last couple of days (Balder, David, Michael, Jane, MrTeacup, Pelle, Tim, Nicole, Gitanjali....sorry if I've missed anyone). As Balder stated, this is a highly charged stage we've walked onto together here; attempting to communicate from our highest selves (a la Multiplex forum Road Rules) really helps us to dig more deeply than I've ever seen elsewhere online.

Kudos and deep bows all around.

Much love,
Colin

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 14:13:17 GMT

balder, i really believe we're getting to the point where we can do this! it's extremely encouraging. thank you for all the wisdom and balance you bring to the we-space.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://mrteacup.gaia.com — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 07:34:30 GMT

Jane, this is an amazing image! I love the descriptions of all the characters and our dynamics, and you bring it all together so perfectly. Thanks for sharing it with us :)

~MrTC

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://kessels.gaia.com — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:52:57 GMT

Well, Joe and Julian would make great mods then :)

I know, I'm not helping, but please....

Peter

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://mrteacup.gaia.com — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:23:00 GMT

But you cannot expect us mods never to act as participants.

I don't. I said that mods should opt out of highly emotional and angry feuds.

Re: IIZaadz Blogopalooza!

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:04:03 GMT

Yes, if I could go back, I would do things differently -- now that I have the benefit of hindsight.

But it's a tough dynamic. Where does it begin and end? If we argue that it is not right for one person to tell another that they are "polluting the we-space," but then also reserve the right to censor people if we deem that they are not contributing positively or are crossing the line in some way -- that is a way of saying that we can still decide, and act on, the perception that someone is polluting the we-space.

I think it is legitimate to try, together, to promote a healthy we-space -- to preserve the trust and respect that is necessary for the sorts of discussions we desire to be able to unfold here. So, yes, I believe that we can, and should, be able to call each other on patterns of behavior which may be undermining group trust or inhibiting healthy discussion; and that we should be able to appeal to moderators if some behavior gets out of hand. But this is highly charged territory, and quite subjective too -- what appears disruptive or "out of line" to some people will not strike others that way. (Witness the whole Helen debacle on the Multiplex). So great care is needed, as well as humility -- we have to be willing to "own" our own projections, if others see them getting in the way.

I think the main thing is to extend to each other a basic trust -- the benefit of the doubt -- and try to maintain a wide enough lens that we can view any particular action by an individual in light of his or her overall "track record" on the forum. To resist the temptation to resort to scapegoating (a pattern which emerges in most group dynamics). To be wlling to start again, when necessary. And to surf polarizing dynamics skillfully -- realizing that they can serve to highlight shadow and projection and therefore may provide material to work with and grow from, but also being willing to abandon a point of contention if it shows no signs of resolution and is beginning to cause harm.

This isn't easy, of course. As the history of our discussions here and on the Multiplex shows us. But it's a worthwhile practice we're engaged in. I do have faith in that.

Warm wishes,

Balder