Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

We post a lot of music here, and I love listening what everyone is into.  I also find myself feeling hungry - wishing that there was something more, something deeper and more truly “integral” than most of the popular songs we listen to and share.  I started thinking about this after listening to Ken's interview with the guitarist from Pearl Jam last night.  It was fun … but, somehow, I want something more.  Although I don't listen to much classical Western music, I long for the development of a classical-level music (in terms of profundity, depth, order, and sophistication of theory and expression) that really speaks to the fullness of the human spirit at the edge of our evolution. 

Certain forms of music have captured this exquisitely, of course, at different times of our history, in different parts of the world…at different stages of development.  Indian classical music, Gregorian chant, Western baroque and classical music, Persian dastgah, Indonesian temple and court gamelan, and so on.  There is a refinement of sensibility and form, an accomplishment of expression, a profundity in subject and tone, that is missing in much popular music. 

Integral is new as a movement and a “culture,” so of course it is too early to expect any “high sacred art” to come out of it.  Such art forms take time to evolve.  So, I'm more interested in “dreaming” at this point about what could be, than in complaining about what's missing.

Years ago, I was very interested in making music, and I used to study music theory - taking a few courses at college, and reading some rather esoteric books on sound, vibration, music, and consciousness.  There were so many ideas and possibilities that energized me at that time - music as consciousness transformer; music as a state-inducer; music as a cultural force (for cohesion and disintegration, stability and growth*); music as a healing art; music as a science (of vibration, acoustics, energy stimulation, brain-entrainment; in relation to mathematics, architecture, etc); music as a window on the order of the Kosmos; music as a tool of emotional catharsis; music in sacred ritual; music as an enhancer of performance (education, work, sports); music as a support for other arts (some well-known, some perhaps as yet unrealized); music as a mode of communication (human and non-human); and so on.  In thinking about an Integral theory of music, I would want to include all of these dimensions.  And in thinking about the growth of a classical-level Integral music, a high integral artform which embraces the sacred, I'd want to still include a number of these dimensions as well - drawing on the broad range of music's power in forming a coherent Integral musical theory and form.

When I studied these things years ago, I remember being impressed by the ancient theories of ragas and modes - how these were related, in a way that was integral for the time, to mood, time of day, season or time of year, color or light, aspects of the body's energy, aspects of nature (elemental, animal, cosmic), etc.  These considerations informed the composition and performance of music in a number of ways.  One thing to “play” with in the composition of Integral music, it seems to me, would be these types of modes - perhaps finding modes that were expressive not only of moods, but of v-Memes or other measures of development, using them consciously to evoke different constellations of feeling and thought, understanding and movement.  Really, the number of things you could do - once you really dig in to the different methods that have been used in the past, and the different horizons that open up when you take an Integral Methodological Approach to the subject - seems endless to me.

Do you have any thoughts on anything I've shared here?  I've sort of just wandered my way through this post, tossing out ideas.  I'm interested in talking about what an Integral high sacred art of music might look (or sound!) like and involve; what an Integral Theory of music would involve; and more personally, what you get out of music, what you use it for, and what you would like to see evolve…

Best wishes,

Balder

* As legend has it, some of the emperors of China used to assess the health of the empire by listening to the forms of music that were being played in different regions.  The rhythms and harmonies that were used, and the words that were chosen, revealed to them the prevailing moods of the people and let him know when unrest was brewing or other problems were forming.  Acting perhaps rather “magically,” they also used to assemble huge ensembles (thousands of musicians) and have them all play certain prescribed pieces of sacred music, to “infuse” the kingdom with the right vibrations…

P.S.  This thread has been reposted to this board from the “Media Discussions” board, since this one seems more appropriate for the subject.  Moderators, the duplicate thread under Media Discussions can be deleted. 

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

This is a great subject. Yes, I've often wondered what a more integral music would sound like too. Most of the popular songs lyrics tend to revolve around first-tier issues, and the music too tends to just get your lower chakras firing. At the same time they often seem to be playing together in a way that classical orchestras are not–they have autonomy and yet are synchronized at the same time; the classical musicians are synchronized but don't have much or any autonomy.

The classical composition may be more sophisticated in a sense, but I often get the feeling it's not speaking about anything second tier either. I'd like to see the theory hashed out a little bit there. It seems to me that integral music might have the high level of sophistication, depth, and order and the same level of autonomy we see in a rock band–it would be coming up through each member spontaneously rather than being imposed on them by a composer. Also, the state of the music business is an important factor right now–the LR situtation isn't so conducive to innovation, to say the least.

~David

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

The only group I know of that fits all of your criteria is TOOL.  On the surface they come off rough, ego-centric, and a little menacing, but looking under the hood shows alot more going on.

Here is just a short example

Lateralus

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition leaving all these opportunities behind.

Feed my will to feel this moment urging me to cross the line.
Reaching out to embrace the random.
Reaching out to embrace whatever may come.

I embrace my desire to
feel the rhythm, to feel connected
enough to step aside and weep like a widow
to feel inspired, to fathom the power,
to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain,
to swing on the spiral
of our divinity and still be a human.

With my feet upon the ground I lose myself
between the sounds and open wide to suck it in,
I feel it move across my skin.
I'm reaching up and reaching out,
I'm reaching for the random or what ever will bewilder me.
And following our will and wind we may just go where no one's been.
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been.

Spiral out. Keep going, going…

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Wow, Thanks Bruce, I just found this…

While my formal study hasn't gone far I do feel that the roots of a new music are accessible in me. There are ganres that I haven't heard “externally”, yet which have, over the years, developed a kind of subliminal objectivity for me. One of my deeper dreams is to actualize these forms culturally.

I'll get back to this, promise.

K

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Thanks, everyone, for your responses so far.

David, yes, I think we need to talk about what would actually be involved in second- or third-tier music.  I agree that autonomy in the musicians would likely be an important part of an Integral high art (though maybe not indispensable in all cases), and I also agree that a lot of classical music is still a product of first tier.  When I used the term “classical-level,” I think that sort of missed what I was trying to get at.  What I meant was this:  a “high musical artform” expressive of the fullness, richness, and genius of an age and culture, as classical music has served for Western culture.  In other words, by “classical-level,” I didn't mean “as high as the classical level,” but rather serving the same role as classical music has served: a genre that aims at the fullest, most realized expression of musical intelligence and passion that a particular culture can realize.

About the question of autonomy:  One reason I have appreciated classical Indian music is because of the way it balances classical precision and accomplishment with spontaneity and autonomy.  Jazz does this, too, in its own way.  I expect an emergent “Integral” high musical art will involve a similar balance.  Though, again, it depends on what criteria we use to define Integral or “second-tier” music:  Is it “integral” because of its compositional structure, its mode of play, its thematic content, its integral fusion of purposes, its integration of musical forms – or all or none of the above?

Eugene,

I do not yet own anything by TOOL, but I've heard enough about them on Integral forums that I finally went out and gave some of their CDs a listen at the music store.  It does sound as if they have a lot going on, in terms of lyrical content and compositional structure.  They are definitely a “high” form of rock music.  They don't capture the particular integration of sound, structure, and meaning that I'm personally looking for – aesthetically , I mean – but I agree that there ARE examples out there of “turquoise” level or integrally informed music, in a number of different genres, and I can see TOOL as possibly one of them.

Kerry,

I look forward to whatever you have to share.  I understand exactly what you mean by having a sense of a “new music” that has achieved a subliminal objectivity for you, though I expect my own version of this is much less realized than yours.  I have occasionally subtly heard a “music” which I've longed to be able to express, but I just don't have the skills to do so.  On a number of occasions, I've dreamed entire albums of new music – which, in the dream state, was very rewarding to me – but I quickly lose the material when I wake up.  If life had gone a little differently for me, I think I could have been a musician or composer in this incarnation; as it is, I'll probably have to wait till my next one!

In my next post, I may share some of the ideas I've had – projects I would pursue, were I really a professional musician/composer in this life.

Best wishes,

Balder

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Bruce:I long for the development of a classical-level music (in terms of profundity, depth, order, and sophistication of theory and expression) that really speaks to the fullness of the human spirit at the edge of our evolution.

For me, what immediately comes to mind is David Hykes and his Harmonic Choir. I have studied with him and find his combination of approach, integrity, experience, range, depth, skill, intelligence and 'ground-breaking' qualities speak to what you are saying. His website, Harmonic World, is a bit difficult to navigate - and, if you read what he writes about his work and of course listen, I'd be curious as to your opinion. I like the CD “Harmonic Meetings” best, but the first CD, Hearing Solar Winds is also extraordinary. Worth reading the cover notes ( ? what do you call those things they put in with the CD, a little book of text..).

The actual 'experience' of harmonic chant is something else entirely - I'm not sure I can do it justice. For me it was and is the most profoundly deep form of meditation, one which included the whole body, and every person in the group - each one of us was integral to the moment, to the sound created. I have written about this elsewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up.

I'm wondering if a truly 'integral' music includes personal involvement in the creation of that music - in addition to 'passive' listening. David's 'meditations' are really acts of deep listening - this is what he focuses on rather than 'sound' making, and it is out of this listening that the music arises. Truly beautiful, even when a group of complete non-singers are involved.

Love,
Sandra

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Wow, thanks, Sandra, for bringing up David Hykes.  I love his work (I have two of his CDs) and have posted a few links to his pieces on our song sharing threads.  For this thread, I was thinking about listing a number of artists that I think deserve a hearing in the context of a discussion of sacred music, and he was one of the persons I was planning on mentioning.  His work has a strong spiritual basis, obviously, and he is taking overtone chanting in a new direction – retaining the spiritual core, and integrating this essentially Asian vocal genre with Western and Middle Eastern (sacred aesthetic) sensibilities as well.

Another person whose work I enjoy, and who I mention from time to time, is Stephan Micus.  He is a multi-instrumentalist and vocalist, crafting a genre-defying, contemplative form of music that spans many of the world's cultures.

Here's something he wrote about his art:

“Some years ago while travelling in a bus in Nepal it became clear to me how the perfect music should be. It was a very strong experience. We were driving through a valley at quite low altitude, maybe four to five hundred meters. In that area the landscape was very fertile. There were rice fields, water buffalos, children, trees, parrots and colourful villages full of vibrant life. Behind all of that one could see the mountains standing seven, eight thousand meters high, an inhospitable zone where no one can live. They appeared to be a symbol of eternity and with their shining snow peaks, also of purity. These two things side by side, colourful life and the eternal pure and unreachable, sometimes one dominating, sometimes the other, struck me to be the image of perfect music. The two opposites complemented one another; the fields would not have been so interesting without the mountains, and the mountains without the fields simply too cold. In my music I intend to have both of these elements present, the love of life's emotions and this dimension of the eternal, unreachable. Music which emphasizes only one of these aspects becomes either too sweet or too cold. The perfect balance of course, will appear for each listener to be in another place.”

Best wishes,

B.

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Hi Bruce

Great topic. If you like Stephan Micus you may also enjoy Andy Garbi.

James

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Hi, James,

Thanks for the introduction.  His work has a nice sound to it and is a bit reminiscent of Micus.  I like what Micus is doing, but feel that in some ways his work suffers because it is all the “voice” of one man.  It would be nice if he teamed up with other musicians sometime to see what emerges. 

I was really happy to discover his work a few years ago because it was so much like what I was trying to create on my own, using a little four-track recorder I'd rented.  I'd collected a handful of instruments from around the world, and when I got back from Asia in the late 90s, I rented a recorder and began to compose pieces by laying down tracks of all the different instruments – the Korean changgo drum, the Balinese tingklik, the mountain dulcimer, chimes and xylophones, Indonesian and Indian bamboo flutes, ocarinas and quenas, tin whistles, guitar, ambient nature sounds, electronic tambura, chants, etc.  Pretty much “world” folk/new age music.  I am not a professional musician, however; just a tinkerer.  So I never produced anything that I was proud enough to actually market.  But I had fun with it – and later was pleased to discover the work of Micus, who struck me as a kindred spirit, doing what I'd been trying to do, only better.

On a more theoretical, less personal level – I'm still interested in thinking about the directions an Integral music might take, beyond the Integral-influenced (or consonant) lyrical content of rock songs.  Do you have any ideas, as a musician?

I have a number of half-formed throughts, but nothing solid.  I think I'd really have to know more music theory to really see clearly.  In my musical dream space, I've imagined a number of different types of groups or ensembles that might be formed, using unique combinations of instruments.  I've imagined musical experimental spaces, such as an halls that themselves could become instruments – rooms that somehow respond to and amplify the music being produced in unique ways.  (I've also imagined a “sonic” version of Trungpa's Maitri Space Awareness rooms, which are painted in different colors to facilitate shifts into different state experiences).  And I've been fascinated by various esoteric theories of music, such as raga, or some sacred Indonesian modes.  In case of the latter, gamelan was used as a “sonic yantra” in some ancient rituals – a musical sacred form, meditation on which served to suspend the sense of self and open awareness up to higher state experience.  I've thought about how modern musical forms might similarly build on cycles (the way that gamelan does), but wedding these “technologies” to modern ones (such as those that power Holosync, for instance)…

These are just a few of the ways I've imagined “playing” with musical form and performance.  I may try to compose something later about more formal projects I've imagined.  I might also try to do a quadrant analysis of music theory and compositional forms at some point…

Just musing aloud here … and inviting others to do the same ….

Best wishes,

Balder

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Balder, and all,

It is remarkable to me how what you've begun, B, to speak about here reminds me of some of (what I'd long considered) my 'farther fetched' notions of the potential musics, soundscapes, and holistic applications of emergent technologies.

I find myself tentatively revisiting an abandoned passion, and wonder, now, how the time to begin to do it justice might arrive.

The “half-formed thoughts” mentioned above each sound familiar.  “…halls that could themselves become instruments”, I've got a few (twenty-year-old) journal pages on, somewhere. Responsive rooms, mergings of content and context, acoustic signatures of an audience woven into peices, a purposive music; not the impersonal mass product of circumstantial or exclusively artist centric expression…etc..   I too have wondered about sense extentions of the colored rooms of Shamballa. 

By the time “house music” went popular I was pretty sure I'd written a house music theory back in '79.

In one of those early excursions into theory I wrote on what I (today) see as an I/We/It(s) of heard music. …The I/We/It(s) being expressed/impressed in what I called, Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary Identification. These phases of reference were conceived as a continuum, a spectrum of how a person indentifies what they hear. Primary Identification had to do with those sounds with a reference in the upper quadrants. Sound invoking, or made by, the breath, heartbeat or voice, any 'reference' of the human body : primary. Sound invoking, or made by, exterior elements known (previously experienced), including instruments, natural sounds, (from the animate and inanimate) : secondary. Sounds for which the listener has no prior referent for, which is heard “for the first time”, which invokes no direct signification : tertiary identification. Tertiary Identification I saw as overlapping with Primary Non-identification which includes 'sounds' with a pitch/tone too low or high for me to consider that we 'hear' them within the range of conscious listening.

I haven't read those notes in many years, but I think that's the gist.

~

I feel fortunate that my sense of liturgy was influenced by our ( at Zen Mountain Monastery)having one of David Hykes' singers as a sangha member and an active trainer (along with a former rehersal director for the Nikolai Dance Company as our Liturgy Master). Other influences on our chanting were the Deep Listening practices taught by Pauline Oliveros at the workshops she gave at the monastery. Also, Meridith Monk, another recent explorer of vocal potential, has a longstanding relationship with that resident sangha.

Many late nights of zkir with the old Turks of the Jerrahi Order of Dervishes was another way I'd been pried open to sacred music and the vibratory emmersion in communal lineage as expressed live.

This topic, integral frontiers of sacred music, is of mythic perportions for me. It holds a visceral gavity that I resist yielding to. To be reminded of where I was just before the weight of making-a-living descended and had me wondering, “Where was I?”, is both a gift and challenge. Which is also a central aspect of why I'm part of this online community; to be inspired, empowered to realize even dreams.

Thanks again B.,

Kerry

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Hi, Kerry,

I'm so happy to hear this discussion is sounding out precious (and neglected) depths in you.  I'm fascinated by the fact that our minds have apparently followed similar tracks in this area … and that we both have let these things go as we've given in to the demands of life – making a living, taking care of family, etc.  On my part, I don't know if I'll be able to realize any of my dreams in this area, for a number of reasons, but I at least want to talk about them and to put feelers into the openness of possibility.  And if the resonance such discussion evokes in others leads to a creative outpouring in one way or another, that would be quite satisfying to me.

I'm not sure if I still have them on hand (they may be in boxes in one of my parents' attics, where I stuffed things before heading overseas) but I know I also used to have some journal entries about these things.  As I mentioned, I tried to imagine different ways music halls could themselves become responsive spaces.  One of the ideas was the use of sympathetic strings mounted at different places in the building, which ideally would vibrate and shimmer when different notes were struck.  Other ideas involved different surfaces, different shapes, even some computerized components.

Related to this, I was fascinated to read in one of the books I was studing at the time that mathematicians had discovered that the basic relationships that prevailed in certain compositional forms of a certain era were also reflected in the ratios and proportions of architectural styles of the same period.  That there was a sort of underlying “geometric pattern” to a given historical logos, in-form-ing very different sorts of production.

I'm interested in your theory about primary, secondary, and tertiary identification with sounds – wondering how you might tie that in both to composition and to affect.  On a concrete level, speaking about primary identification with the sound of the heart, I remember hearing what I believe was a cutting edge project in the basement of one of my father's friends houses:  a woman friend had gotten samples (back in the late seventies, I believe) of human heart sounds, and using a tape loop had recorded music around this primary beat.  Nowadays, this isn't really that notable – maybe quite a few have tried it – but it was one of the influences that energized me about the possibilities of a “new music” back in my youth.

Anyway … if you ever find your notes and have something from them you want to share…I'm all ears.  :-D

About extending the sensory dimensions of the Shambhala Maitri spaces:  one of the reasons I thought about this was because there is a direct vibrational relationship between certain colors and notes … a relationship which I believe can be built on in mutli-media musical compositions.  I believe the color green, for instance, is essentially the “vibration” of the C note, many octaves up… 

During the time I spent a lot of time studying and thinking about this subject, I read about the experiments of another Canadian composer that suggested further possibilities to me.  Unfortunately, I cannot recall his name (it may have been Schaeffer, or something like that), but what he did was he composed a modern operatic piece which he set at a place called Wolf Lake.  This is a lake where wolves gather to drink at specific times of year.  He incorporated this natural cycle into his composition, along with other natural elements … having the orchestra float on a platform out in the middle of the lake, playing at the time the wolves actually come down to the lake (the “story” of the opera itself involves wolves and various mythical beings, I believe).  The piece, as I recall, was composed in a way that it actually “worked with” and responded to natural sounds – the loons, the wolves, etc.  Seemed pretty cool to me…

Anyway, more musing aloud on this Martin Luther King Jr. day.

Warm wishes to you,

Balder

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Bruce,

Yesterday you mentioned a few things that I can vouch for.

“… that mathematicians had discovered that the basic relationships that prevailed in certain compositional forms of a certain era were also reflected in the ratios and proportions of architectural styles of the same period.  That there was a sort of underlying “geometric pattern” to a given historical logos, in-form-ing very different sorts of production.”

Over the last few years I've had a recurrent notion/observation that Thai, the tonal language, is reflected in their traditional architectures and certain design features prevalent regionally. I've noticed, I believe,  some correlations between inflections, syntax, sylable durations, and the spacial ordering of materials used in building, more pronounced (pun?) in decorative motifs, but also built into structural patterns. I consider this a kind of reverse, if you will, onomatopoeia. That we shape stuff after what we say, along with (the long recognized) saying as shaped by what we perceive.

Walking around and in the full scale replica of the Parthanon, in Nashville (“Music City”), I marveled at the person-to-design size ratios as I moved among the original demensions, imagining the spacial statements as temporal statements. That informal exercise was based, not on what the place would 'sound' like 'transposed' into sequential form, but on what the 'time-value' of the perportions would durate like.

~

In a comment on one of your blogs, Bruce, I said something about Daniel Danner, a really dear friend who collaborated with Robert Moog in the late 50s. They made a few installations for the Smithsonian. One being a chair that enveloped a person like an open egg surrounding them with sound. The other, a room which, when moved through was 'played' by tripping beams: simply linking the production of sound to the changing of positions of objects in space.

..to be cont. …

 K

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Interesting conversation, Bruce and Kerry, particularly about the idea of primary, secondary, and tertiary sounds. It seems to me we might make a distinction in the latter category between totally new sounds that we don't want to have anything to do with, and new sounds that are very interesting, very alluring, very attractive. Maybe new sounds that are too new, or too far in the future, would not be attractive, that to be attractive they have to have just the right measure of newness. Too far ahead of its time, and people won't want to listen.

I've been thinking it might be fun to try some case studies. Maybe we can analyze a few songs and maybe learn from the exercise. I suppose there are a number ofways we might analyze a song, but I might suggest a couple here: 1) a report on your zone #1 experience of the song, that is, a report on how the song makes you feel; and 2) a third-person analysis (including zone #2 and perhaps others) of the artist and the song itself, perhaps culture as well. And we might focus on stages, states, emotions, and we also might characterize it in terms of the three gunas: sattvic (positive), rajastic (exciting), tamasic (dullness).


For example, 1) the song evokes these feelings in me, puts me in this state, evokes these sorts of thoughts and aspirations, and this guna; and 2) I believe the artist is at this stage, in this state, has this emotion and guna generally. Also, any physical sensations the song evokes would be interesting or what the song makes you feel like doing.
 
I don't mean to make it complicated or make requirements. That would just be one way of doing it. I basically just think it would be interesting to take a look at a few songs and get some reactions, some analysis, whether zone #1 (personal reaction) or zone #2 or #4 or other (analysis of the artist, song, culture, etc.). So, again, I don't mean to say your reactions have to be like that or touch those bases: say whatever you like if you don't want to look at it that way.

Okay, here are a few songs we might analyze or give our reactions to to start:

Jailbreak

Eyes of the World

Father of Night

Sign on the Window

Krishna's Love Music


David

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Hi David,

What you say here, in,

“It seems to me we might make a distinction in the latter category between totally new sounds that we don't want to have anything to do with, and new sounds that are very interesting, very alluring, very attractive. Maybe new sounds that are too new, or too far in the future, would not be attractive, that to be attractive they have to have just the right measure of newness. Too far ahead of its time, and people won't want to listen.”

sounds like something I responded to at the UNM Composer's Symposium a few years ago.

In a discussion of acceptence and rejection of new works I contrasted two examples of, say, levels of readiness (on the part of performers) to interpret, with fidelity, a peice which breaks ground, is very “new”, departs from convention,  having little or no previous reference in conditioned listening histories. The examples were, one, in the early 90's the composer Xenakis had a world premeir attempted by the NYPhilharmonic (still under Zubin Meta). More than a few of the musician's (among the best trained in conventional music) could barely keep a straight face, some breaking into laughter during the performance. The miss match of extant training and skill sets, and the fundamental requirments of Xenakis' later works was drastic, the results, unsatisfactory for everyone involved. The kosmic grooves for that performance were slight and unstable.

The second example was of J.S.Bach, how his deep and long friendship with a violinist conspired to develop technique and push leading edges. They fed into oneanother synergistically. The kosmic grooves for their mutual accomplishments were well established prior even to their own births. For that friendship in that 'moment' in our history, certain concentrated pockets of cultural creativity and steady sequential advancement were intact. The makers of their instruments, instructors of their youth, their own families, were (typically) multi-generationally laying down specific grooves in support of their 'individual' achievements. They were the sons of sons of… who they were artistically. It took a sustained 'full quadrant press' to yield their unique aesthetic 'slamdunk' in a form that survives.

So, you're right, David, about the 'newness' factor in regards to our conditioned ear, habits of listening, and the established expectations which inform the probabilities of what we recognize as true, beautiful, and good.

Some of my thinking about developing cultural artifacts is primed by the book, New World, New Mind by Robert Ornstein and Paul Erlich. While I haven't seen the book in 15 or so years, I recall appreciating their research on how our various inheritances, genetic, cultural, social, are apt to 'read' much of the less precedented manifestations of current history; how we read or misread the 'new' based on our degrees of freedom from conditioned inheritance. 

I can imagine people eventually living in a flow state which allows a thorough integration of what are now only divergent areas of activity. So far, we work, we recreate, we medicate, we consume entertainment, nutients, products, services. In '01 yours truely went on record as proposing an eventual merging of the FCC and the FDA. Maybe once we outgrow our fragmentation and find ourselves living habits of Enlightened Communication (in which the 'known' is left behind for the clear) we will have as great a pleasure at listening to the 'tune' of an accurate diagnosis, as hearing the 'concert' of statistics relevent to our next decision, as playing the 'song' of a therapy session, or digging the 'chops' and 'riffs' of a demographic.

I'm told that hearing is the “first” sense to develop inutero. I wonder if there's an inate hierarchy to our sense-life.

'nough for now,

K

p.s., thanks for the case study suggestion but I'm going to pass on that tonight.
 

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

this is a fascinating discussion. Thanks Bruce and the rest of you for your intriguing contributions.

I am drawn in because of how powerful a force music has been for me, and also how important sacred music, both listening and singing, has been.

It's truly mind-boggling to think of a kind of highly-evolved integral music.

One little comment on the last post before this - could hearing be the first sense in utero? Wouldn't it have to be touch?

Namaste,

Nicole

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Hi Nicole,

Without remembering where I heard of that '1st sense' thing, I could believe it due to the 'oceanic' , immersed fetal state. It may be that hearing is the first physical sense activated, prompted to come 'on line', or applicable to the stage of growth.

(I don't remember. I was pretty young.)

Thanks for chiming in!

K

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

There's an article here, excerpts follow:

The Fetal Senses: A Classical View
By David B. Chamberlain, Ph.D.

Sensitivity to Touch

The maternal womb is an optimal, stimulating, interactive environment for human development. Activity never ceases and a fetus is never isolated. Touch, the first sense, is the cornerstone of human experience and communication, beginning in the womb (Montagu, 1978).

Just before 8 weeks gestational age (g.a.), the first sensitivity to touch manifests in a set of protective movements to avoid a mere hair stroke on the cheek. From this early date, experiments with a hair stroke on various parts of the embryonic body show that skin sensitivity quickly extends to the genital area (10 weeks), palms (11 weeks), and soles (12 weeks). …

The vestibular system, designed to register head and body motion as well as the pull of gravity begins developing at about 8 weeks. This requires construction of six semicircular canals, fluid-filled structures in the ears, which are sensitive to angular acceleration and deceleration, and help maintain balance.

Tasting and Smelling

The structures for tasting are available at about 14 weeks g.a. and experts believe that tasting begins at that time. Tests show that swallowing increases with sweet tastes and decreases with bitter and sour tastes. In the liquid womb space, a range of tastes are presented including lactic, pyruvic, and citric acids, creatinine, urea, amino acids, proteins and salts. Tests made at birth reveal exquisite taste discrimination and definite preferences.

Until recently, no serious consideration was given to the possibilities for olfaction in utero, since researchers assumed smelling depended on air and breathing. However, the latest research has opened up a new world of possibilities. The nasal chemoreceptive system is more complex than previously understood, and is made up of no less than four subsystems: the main olfactory, the trigeminal, the vomeronasal, and the terminal system, which provide complex olfactory input to the fetus.

The nose develops between 11 and 15 weeks. Many chemical compounds can cross the placenta to join the amniotic fluid, providing the fetus with tastes and odors. The amniotic fluid surrounding the fetus bathes the oral, nasal, and pharyngeal cavities, and babies breathe it and swallow it, permitting direct access to receptors of several chemosensory systems: taste buds in three locations, olfactory epithelia, vomeronasal system, and trigeminal system (Smotherman and Robinson, 1995)….

Listening and Hearing

Although a concentric series of barriers buffer the fetus from the outside world–amniotic fluid, embryonic membranes, uterus, and the maternal abdomen–the fetus lives in a stimulating matrix of sound, vibration, and motion. Many studies now confirm that voices reach the womb, rather than being overwhelmed by the background noise created by the mother and placenta. Intonation patterns of pitch, stress, and rhythm, as well as music, reach the fetus without significant distortion. A mother's voice is particularly powerful because it is transmitted to the womb through her own body reaching the fetus in a stronger form than outside sounds. For a comprehensive review of fetal audition, see Busnel, Granier-Deferre, and Lecanuet 1992.

Sounds have a surprising impact upon the fetal heart rate: a five second stimulus can cause changes in heart rate and movement which last up to an hour. Some musical sounds can cause changes in metabolism. “Brahm's Lullabye,” for example, played six times a day for five minutes in a premature baby nursery produced faster weight gain than voice sounds played on the same schedule (Chapman, 1975).

Researchers in Belfast have demonstrated that reactive listening begins at 16 weeks g.a., two months sooner than other types of measurements indicated. Working with 400 fetuses, researchers in Belfast beamed a pure pulse sound at 250-500 Hz and found behavioral responses at 16 weeks g.a.–clearly seen via ultrasound (Shahidullah and Hepper, 1992). This is especially significant because reactive listening begins eight weeks before the ear is structurally complete at about 24 weeks…

Vision, probably our most predominant sense after birth, evolves steadily during gestation, but in ways which are difficult to study….

In utero, eyelids remain closed until about the 26th week. However, the fetus is sensitive to light, responding to light with heart rate accelerations to projections of light on the abdomen. This can even serve as a test of well-being before birth. Although it cannot be explained easily, prenates with their eyelids still fused seem to be using some aspect of “vision” to detect the location of needles entering the womb, either shrinking away from them or turning to attack the needle barrel with a fist (Birnholz, Stephens, and Faria, 1978). Similarly, at 20 weeks g.a., twins in utero have no trouble locating each other and touching faces or holding hands!…

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Nicole,

Thanks for that article (excerpt). You were right on with your sense of the subject (& I, way off). 

K

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Kerry,

I am intrigued by your observation that there may be a correspondence between linguistic structure and other externalized structures, such as architecture.  That makes sense to me – and resonates with similar inquiries I followed years ago, when I used to check out foreign language tapes from the library in order to listen to the tonal music and the essential rhythms of different language forms.  I did this as part of my “conscious language evolution” project, when I was playing with the idea that the sonic structure of languages may reflect and influence or “feed back” on other levels – emotional, conceptual, etc.  I didn't arrive at any conclusions that I consider worth publishing at this point, but I did come away with the sense that there may, indeed, be something to this idea.  So, your related idea seems plausible to me as well.

Nicole,

Thank you for joining this conversation.  I had noticed your “status” message the other day and really enjoyed the image of floating on a sea of song.  Wonderful!

David,

Thanks also for your case study suggestion.  I've clicked on several of your links and listened to the pieces (loved the one by Krishna Das!), but haven't had the time (or energy) to put together a detailed response to the songs yet.  I think your idea is a good way to proceed, though, at least to work out one approach to an AQAL study of musical forms – an Integral Music Theory.  (I loved the Music Appreciation and Music Theory classes I took in college; it would be a lot of fun to try to create an Integral version of this.  Something to consider running by colleagues at JFKU….)

Essentially, there are two basic approaches we can take:  looking at existing musical pieces through an AQAL lens, considering their “center of gravity,” their effects on listeners, etc; and then considering what an Integral sacred musical form would be like, in terms of theory, structure and composition, performance, application, and so on.  I've been focusing more on the latter, but have touched a bit on the former.  They're all interesting – to me, at least!

Best wishes,

Balder

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Bruce, probably just thoroughly exploring existing music from an AQAL standpoint would take many, many lifetimes! :) Fascinating and worth beginning though.

Peace,

Nicole

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Hey dugaum,

You chimed in on this thread posted somewhere else (which I cannot find). Were you the road manager for these guys? Always liked that tune. Any Sacred stories?

love

e

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Here's an interesting little multimedia show I came across today:

The Sounds of Silence:  Japanese Gagaku and Hildegard von Bingen

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Balder,

The Sounds of Silence piece might be a good example of what KW called the 'Wagnerian approach' (after R.Wagner's ideal/goal of “unifying” music and drama) to Integral art, multimedia yes, but Integral?

I'm partial to this pooling of the arts, though. Some of my favorite moments as audience have come when a layered juxtaposing of dance/music/lighting/graphic&story reached some synchronous peak of richness, or poigniency. 

When the Redkins(the hair biz couple) needed some graphics to accompany their staging for the International Beauty Show's Fashion Theater, I was recommended and got the gig. It was their “Tribute to the Native American”. The Thunderbird (Lakota) Dance Troupe perfomed the (more or less traditional)Hoop Dance, the models strode back and forth (w/hair dressings incorporating braids, beads, feathers and leather) while my designs were projected, faded into eachother on two angled panals along the rear of the stage. Hardly integral. Beautiful, compelling, dynamic, multimedia, but still, I think, squarly in the wagnerian camp of 'the-more-the-marri(ed)er'.

If whether a work of art is Integral (or not) depends on it's CoG, or the state+stage of it's maker(s), the amount of elements or number of media employed likely won't be relevent criteria for determining it's altitude. Or so it seems to me.

thanks for more food fr thought,

K

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Hi, Kerry,

I also wouldn't count the “Sounds of Silence” piece as an Integral piece of art.  Integrative, yes, but not necessarily “Integral.”  I posted it mainly because David, in a conversation elsewhere, had asked me to post any Hildegard pieces I knew of, and I stumbled upon this unusual multimedia / cross-cultural piece this evening.

It seems really difficult, at this point, for me to pin down what might actually qualify as “Integral musical art.”  I agree that the juxtaposition of multiple elements or styles or whatever is not really the best gauge; perhaps a solo instrumental piece could be Integral, if the musician or composer's CoG is 2nd tier and they've brought the fullness of their awareness into the composition and performance of the piece.

My own aesthetic sense leans in this direction of surprising juxtapositions, cross-pollinations, so that's where my mind goes when envisioning an Integral sacred art.  But that dimension of my vision is more aesthetic than “structural.”

I think it's worth exploring still – what actually would be the hallmarks of an Integral sacred art?  But perhaps we can't speculate or “plan” this.  We just have to let more and more art emerge from this space …

Thank you for sharing that story about your part in the Redkins performance.  You always surprise me, the experiences you have tucked away in that bio of yours.

Best wishes,

Balder

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Balder,

I find your

“…we can't speculate or “plan” this.  We just have to let more and more art emerge from this space …”

in this Wendel Berry quote posted recently by Roshi Joan Hallifax,

“Art does not survive in its revelations, or agriculture in its products, or craftsmanship in its artifacts, or civilization in its monuments, or faith in its relics.”

Leading emergent ways of being/creating will yield it.

K

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Yes, thanks, Kerry; that's perfect.  Speaking of which, is there anything that wants to pour forth from you musically at this time?  Anything struggling to be born?

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Re: my own music, it's been four years (feels like a past life ago) since my focus has lingered internally enough to let a theme surface and take me with it. Maybe it's true that when I 'shun a Muse' (like Gary Snyder warned against) it turns elsewhere.     ! ? !

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

I want one of these!

Just stumbled across it on Youtube today and fell in love with it.  It reminds me of a UFO-shaped drum I designed and tried to build back when I was in my more creative musical phase.  My project wasn't quite successful, but with work it might have been.  I was trying to create a “clay pot” type of percussion instrument (like you hear in Indian music), but with cupped “mouths” on it and various sized chambers, so when you struck your hand flat across one of the open mouths, it would make a hollow popping sound (different notes for each opening).  And the clay body itself could also be played.  I never found a way to get it to work, though.  I built a prototype and was able to play it for a short time, but within a day or two, the clay started to crack and chip. 

Anyway…this isn't exactly “integral,” but it was something cool I wanted to share with any experimental music afficionados who might be reading this thread…

Best wishes,

B.

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Cool drum!

I wonder how long it would take a non-musician like myself to learn how to play.

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

excellent! Bruce,

Seeing that hang drum clip I begin vicariously playing it, flashing on a tabla lesson, and resizing it mentally, extrapolating possibilities…


A few years ago I imagined (and wrote about for a few months) a membrane with a speaker beneath it, foot and knee controls for amplitude, and speaker movement…   

and this was for a visual art.

The membrane would also be a shallow pan holding a slow drying clear acrylic into which various materials, including wet acrylic paints and any manner of pigments in any state…  to basically paint with sound. The mobility of the speaker (with its center magnet) could also manipulate metal dusts…  meanwhile, prior to whatever point in drying, the materials would be maniplulated in several ways from above…

About a year later I met the British accoustic engineer John Reid when he unveiled his invention, the Cymascope, which was basically a membrane with a speaker beneath it.

I was amazed at the similarities and eventually showed he and his assistant my notes.

As it turns out Reid's pattent doesn't impead my idea, nor mine infringe on his. ( s'more to the story, another time) It's just another one of those way back burner things.

K

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Seeing that hang drum clip I begin vicariously playing it

ditto and I'm not even a musician! And I want a Cymascope…

I have not experienced this, but I know that David Hykes has performed in public using some way to make the soundwaves visible, and that he was continually researching and developing his own methods to do this. He was originally an experimental filmmaker. – Kerry, I'm sure he'd be interested in connecting with you.

Sandra

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Thanks Sandra,

…for the prompt. I reached David and in his reply he acknowledges your friendship, of course. In my email to him I linked to this thread.

Your instigation is appreciated.

K

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Great topic Balder. You may have come across Sigur ros and one might veer away from calling this sacred music (I Think it is (to at least a degree that is uncommon in most of the more popular bands out there) and integral at that). Why sacred-  what i can ascertain is that these guys get into somewhat profound altered states when preforming. (The drummer from the band Orri: “There is this kind of mode we all get into. It's really quite a nice feeling.” and Jonsi the vocalist: “On good days when theres good sound and everything is feeling right. You just kind of float and its just like the best feeling ever to sing for people and it's just like you don't even know your singing its just totally empty and your just kind of floating there.” (From the Hemia DVD) Why integral there is a quality of experimentation and merging of what seems to be varied genres into a sound that is there own (the many available musical sounds into a unified personal sound that is both very autonomous and collective). Moreover, referring back to classical music. Although these guys would probably be labeled  prog . rock there are classical builds to there songs.

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Hey Brent,

Reading your post I was reminded that the flow states that musicians can, and often do, achieve has likely been occuring at any stage of consciousness for millenia.
 
In fact, I would credit the intersubjective grooves of alot of the usual intensively social holons (like bands, crews, and teams) with the acceleration of our collective development. 

I think that an integral music is going to have the Stage going for it, as well as the group samadhi thing of States.

Maybe that is obvious but I like to keep that in mind while scanning for exemplars.

K

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Yeah, it is good to remind someone of that indeed. I don't know if you have heard of Sigur ros (but i do think that they are producing integral music (or at least are cognitively integral).

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Yes, thank you for the introduction to Sigur ros.  They have an interesting sound and their videos are quite arresting.  I will look into them further.

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Here's an analogy: you know how there's kind of a cultural convention to ask someone in reference to their husband or wife: “What do you love about them?” and in reply, to recite certain qualities or characteristics of the person. This implies that the qualities of the other person cause love to be aroused in us, but actually, its the other way around. It is the love that makes the other person's qualities seem wonderful, because without love, you wouldn't perceive anything good about the person, no matter how unique or special their personal characteristics were.

So I argue the same is true with sacred music. It's tempting to analyze the structure of music to derive some attribute that renders it “sacred”, and then to find music that has more of it than others, but this is a reductionist exercise. Just as love can't be reduced to personal qualities, the experience of sacredness in music can't be reduced to its formal components, i.e. the UR quadrant features. For me, the formal, structural or mathematical features of music are less relevant than the immediate, enacted and embodied experience of it, but at the same time, I can see how it could be otherwise for other people.

In a way, it's the difference between the 1st and 3rd faces of God, but the difficulty for me is that 3rd face practices have a tendency to be quite naive and partial. This brings to mind a quote from Theodor Adorno: “A successful work of art is not one which resolves contradictions in a spurious harmony, but one which expresses the idea of harmony negatively by embodying the contradictions, pure and uncompromised, in its innermost structure.” There's a sort of naive formalism that embraces symmetry without ever realizing that symmetry is deeply engaged with asymmetry, if only in the negative space it creates. I suggest that the possibility of a shadow element is very strong here, just like codified morality introduces a massive black canvas on which to project the Other. Behind the order, structure and harmony is a dogmatic rejection of disorder, chaos and dissonance, and is ultimately an Amber artifact. On the other hand, the dominant mode in the culture is 1st face perspective, but also naive and infected with narcissism and egoism. And for the sake of completeness, there's music as a 2nd face practice, which in its naive form, only seeks to pleasantly entertain or soothe or superficially connect.

There's a book called The Mysticism of Sound and Music by a Sufi mystic, that was brought to my attention because it inspired one of my favorite artists, Deep Chord. It's on my reading list, but I have concerns that it's coming from Amber, and Deepchord were reading it through a Green lens – the old Green-Amber axis, where Green looks cross-culturally at Amber features and romantically re-interprets them stripped of their dogmatic and oppressive features.

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

I saw Andreas & Co at the University of Arizona in mid 1980's…
Just love this music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69O-xB_tnCw

And this from Shadowfax http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d6V7FJajWE

Cheers,
Doug

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

You tube's most viewed guitarsolo

An ingenious meld of the famous Pachelbel Canon and electric guitar riffing…

Gotta love it as a lover of classical music and guitar mastery,

nicole

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Genevieve Guimond plays solo Bach on cello

Ok, ok, I admit I am not one little bit objective about this 17-year old girl, who happens to be the daughter of my closest friend, but listen to her for yourself, the poise, the mastery and tell me if she isn't really one of the most talented young cellists to emerge on the scene today… She doesn't just have technical excellence but plays with soul and beauty. She has had very good teachers - for most of the past years, Yuli Turovsky of the renowned i musici  de montreal.

Peace,

Nicole

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

have you read the interview between michael garfield and ken wilber on integral and music? See here.

i found it very interesting, and would like to know what others more familiar with wilber think…

thanks!

nicole

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Wow, thank you for pointing this out, Nicole.  That's really a great resource to refer to as we continue this conversation.  I will read the interview more carefully a second time once I'm off work, but just skimming it, I would say that Wilber didn't really say anything that I wouldn't have been able to piece together myself based on his discussions of related topics, but it's nice to have it all in one spot.  I'll comment further in a later post.

Best wishes,

Balder

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Yes, thanks for that link Nicole!

Since reading the interview I'm rethinking some of what I began to respond with to Mr. Teacup's post of last week. It's beautiful to me how that the more I look the more I see.

I'd begun to write on possible implications of a study I'd done years ago (btw, thank you for bringing that link to Genevieve's recording here). The study was a sequential listening to music, Renaisance through current, in chronological order, with attention to where throughout my body the particular piece resonated. I was calling Tellemon and Percel cerebral centered and recalling that I detected a recovery of thorasic resonance (heart, solar plexis) in J.S.Bach and continued in some instances in Motzart, and certainly through the Romantics. 

I was tracing a developmental re-embodiment, positing an earlier 'ascent from' the aesthetics of the lower chakras and a gradual reclaimation of their value, in mainstream music, over the last several centuries.

In the interview Wilber seems to place Bach at “sort of sixth or seventh chakra”. ( Rethink #1.)

Then I found myself in closer agreement with Gebser - “…to communicate this atemporal… in a temporal way…” - in regards to what I once called 'chronocentric expression' , than with Ken's further granularities of discernment. ( Rethink #2.)

I'm loving the way this thread, you folks, are helping me to clarify things I've begun to care about again.

My silence on this thread over this last while was mostly due to not finding supporting documentation for a few 'What Ifs' that have caught me, and that I'm following. 

Be well all,

K

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

fascinating, K! Thank you so much,

Nicole

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Modern nondual teacher and musicologist, Jean Klein, articulated a theory of sacred art that is worth considering – at least as one element – in an Integral theory of sacred music.

Here's an excerpt from one of his writings, A Conversation on Art:

”Inquirer: For some time now, I've been waiting to ask you both what you think art really is.  Is it an amorphous collection of human expression or can we say more precisely what it is?

Philosopher: Ultimately all objects are pointers to truth and beauty but there are objects which, par excellence, bring us back to truth and beauty.  These are works of art.

Inquirer: Does all that we generally call art have this power?

Philosopher: Art which strikes the senses and brings us beyond them to a timeless state could be called sacred art.  Decorative or experimental art leaves us in the senses and in this sense can be called secular.  Those great ‘sacred' works which have the symbolic power to eject us into the impersonal realm are quite rare.

Inquirer: Let us talk about these works of art.  What do you mean by saying they strike the senses and take us beyond them?

Artist: Is it not that aesthetic joy I sometimes feel when I am so taken by a work of art that it is no longer present as an object?  There is only a feeling of wonder, delight and expansiveness where I forget space and time and am no longer in my senses, as you say.

Philosopher: Exactly.  In aesthetic joy we come back to ourselves, close to our primal being.  The delight of great works of art is that they have the power to point us to what we are, to that nakedness and playfulness of simply being, free from thought and self-consciousness.

Artist: Yes! When reading certain poems or listening to Beethoven's Quartets or when standing before certain sculptures by Henry Moore I am no longer in the everyday world but in a feeling of oneness and tranquility.  It is a feeling of being free from boundaries, from the routine of daily life and what I habitually call ‘myself.'  It is akin to those moments of wonderment I vaguely remember as a child.

Inquirer: Do you remain in this feeling or do you come back to the object?

Artist: I go back to the details to see what it is that delights me.  The coming back is spontaneous, it is the desire to make the work my own.  I explore the composition, recreate it point by point until there is nothing left to observe and then again I let myself be taken by joy without the presence of the object.

Philosopher: Yes.  One returns involuntarily to explore a work because the senses are not yet completely integrated into the whole, the feeling of oneness, and are full of desire to be so.  When we explore the details of a work point by point, the global feeling remains as the background and each detail is spontaneously referred to it.  Attention thus remains expanded and in it the senses lose their objectivity and unfold.  This time, however, they are integrated consciously into our awareness, so there is no immediate desire to come back to the details, the object part.  That would be a reduction of the feeling of oneness.  It is the marriage in gratitude of admiration and appreciation.

Inquirer: But eventually we long to hear or see the event again.  Why is that?

Artist: When the senses are so exalted and transformed it is normal to want to be delighted again.  We are creatures of the senses and aesthetic joy is the sensation of the gods.  Great works of art are a source of inexhaustible delight.

Inquirer: Could we say that aesthetic fullness is fuller after the integration of the senses?

Philosopher: Fullness is then more grounded in the wholeness of life.  Without the integration of all the elements, the feeling of oneness remains nebulous like a mystical experience.  It is important that body and mind are integrated, that objective knowledge is not denied but incorporated in the wholeness of knowing as being.

Inquirer: You said that the object is full of desire to be integrated into oneness.  What attracts the object?

Philosopher: We could say, like Plotinus, that it is an emanation of God and a return to God.  Or we could simply say that the object is drawn towards its home ground, wholeness.  In multidimensional attention where the senses are released the object loses its rigidity and unfolds in you, an unfolding that your mental interference hinders.  At a certain point the last residue of objectivity is suddenly absorbed in the magnet of global awareness.

Inquirer: What exactly is it about these works of art that gives them the power to eject us into timelessness?

Artist: It is the perfect composition and balance of colour, form and sound which reveal the fundamental elements, light, space, and silence.  In short, the work must be harmonious.

Inquirer: Could we say that the harmony of the work echoes in us reminding us of our own harmony and this remembrance is the feeling of wonder you spoke of?  Wholeness is thus common to the work and the observer; otherwise, how could we be reminded of it so strongly?

Philosopher: Yes, indeed.  The fundamental elements are common to all.  Art is a reflection of the harmony we are in common with all things.  It contains globality within itself. Nature is harmonious and the human being is part of nature.

Inquirer: When we use the world ‘harmony' what do we mean exactly?  It cannot be anything to do with symmetry since nature is anything but symmetrical.

Philosopher: Harmony is the whole wherein everything exists without conflict.  It is the same as beauty.  Our real nature and the real nature of the work of art are one and the same.  The work of art is a manifestation, a hint if you like, of this oneness.

Inquirer: So when we call a work beautiful it is because it reminds us of, and points to our own beauty.  Is beauty then subjective in some sense?

Philosopher: Not at all.  In wholeness there is no subject or object, so how can there be subjectivity or objectivity?  Beauty is one though its expressions are many.  In beauty there is no object so how can there be a subject?

Inquirer: Though beauty is not relative or comparable because it does not lie in the so-called object, we could still say that certain works inspire beauty by their own beauty.  But when we look at the variety of things that inspire our wholeness, our godliness, it is difficult to see any thread running through them all.  Our artist said that it was the composition which revealed the fundamental elements but this does not really help me.  What more precisely about certain objects gives them their symbolic power to point beyond the senses to our real nature?

Artist: The composition is such that it sets free beauty and harmony.  It does not emphasize the objective or material part so that you are not held in the anecdotal but are taken straightaway by the fundamental elements to which the composition points.  Great works by different techniques call you to the spatial, timeless dimension.  Volume is conceived in such a way that it liberates space, colour liberates light, sound liberates silence…”  (Jean Klein, 1988, Who Am I?)

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

John McLaughlin  Shakti ~ East meets West

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrrBtAahALU

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

A related conversation on Integral Music is underway at the Multiplex.  Thanks to Kerry for the heads up… 

Best wishes,

B.

Re: Integral Frontiers of Sacred Music

Great discussion Guys,

Bruce/Kerry,
Thanks for the link to the Multiplex thread. (I posted this there also)

Just wanted to point to a very interesting book/talking book I recently read called “This is your Brain on Music” by Daniel Levitan. He's a musician, turned recording engineer/producer, turned neuroscientist.

It's a fascinating read about evolution, music, brain/mind states, etc.

Dan,
Thanks for the Shakti link…love them.

Cheers,

Doug