Gaia: Integral Christianity

Re: If It's Not Good News, It's Not Evangelical - by Jim Wallis

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 01:36:22 GMT

it would be glorious for you to study history in Europe, I think, though you're right, you'd really need to have a good level of German.

I hear you too about traditions we see as cruel and rights violations. I really struggle with this myself with certain things like female genital mutilation to name just one.

Re: If It's Not Good News, It's Not Evangelical - by Jim Wallis

http://russiamoore.gaia.com — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:56:49 GMT

Yes, I think most people (or at least most people who don't suffer from a troubling imbalance in priorities) are ultimately looking out for what they feel best serves people. I may strongly disagree that same-sex marriage harms society in any way, but I respect that, for many people, they feel it does and *that* motivates them to fight against it.

One of my goals is actually to study history in Europe. I can't wait to see how they view the world wars (I'm focusing on culture in the first half of the 20th century). I already have an idea from my mother about different perspectives in history (and very different perspectives from my grandfather! It's always interesting hearing him talk about his childhood in Africa as the privileged white upper class--though you almost have to stop up your ears at some bits), but to be really immersed in it, to be able to actually see the places and talk to people who recall reconstruction... It's something I haven't really had as a North American. I really hope I can get my German up to snuff!

I've noted some struggles amongst people working towards peace struggle with whether it's better to overwrite certain traditions we see as cruel and rights violations, or if this is some new form of imperialism and enforcing our moral codes and cultural mores on others with "lesser" practices. It's very hard to draw hat line, but I think if we can really get a dialogue working between very different viewpoints in a calm, respectful manner, it does help work out where we can find common ground.

Re: If It's Not Good News, It's Not Evangelical - by Jim Wallis

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:06:46 GMT

That's excellent. Yes, there are many perspectives but no one has a corner on ultimate Truth.

Love,

Nicole

Re: Excited to Learn

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:48:36 GMT

In a way, Corey, everyone reads the Bible with highlighter in hand. I have not yet met any Christian who follows everything in the New Testament - it would be very difficult and strange, involving making sure you always have long hair or a headwrap if you are a woman, or never agree with people remarrying, etc.

There is always room to follow Jesus, though, even if you feel out of step with everyone around you.

What do you feel truly following Jesus entails?

Love,

Nicole

Re: Excited to Learn

http://lovejoystrength.gaia.com — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:18:41 GMT

I once read a book in which the author said, "I have given up Christianity in order to follow Jesus."

The Bible tells us how to live and the church goers get their nifty highlighters out... highlighting the sentences they agree with and disregarding the rest.

Pop Christianity leaves no room for followers of Jesus

Re: If It's Not Good News, It's Not Evangelical - by Jim Wallis

http://peacehealer.gaia.com — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 06:21:28 GMT

Hi, Russia - I think your point is *very* well taken. This was apparent to me several years ago when I attended a meeting of a committee that was addressing the needs of local children and teens through a framework of "resiliency" - ie, what skills and strengths did the youngsters already possess, and how could those strengths be fostered and expanded to face other challenges. Sitting next to me at the table was a local pastor who was well known for his very conservative views. We had encountered each other various previous times around lesbian bisexual gay transgender issues - and tended to be far on opposite sides. But there we were at this table - because in a strange way, we were both passionately concerned about childrens' futures. Does that mean we agree on just about anything? Probably not. But it did really make me reflect on how coming at something from such diverse perspectives kept bringing us to the same places.

So ... in some ways, I wish we could send adults from the US up to Canada for a history course ... and invite Canadians to come south for a similar experience to help all of us better understand how much the side of the table we sit on influences who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are.

once again -

thank you

Sylvia

Re: If It's Not Good News, It's Not Evangelical - by Jim Wallis

http://russiamoore.gaia.com — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:28:41 GMT

I tend to think about worldview and spheres a lot on and around Independence Day. Both of my biological parents are from Canada (Mum's from Europe originally, though), and as a young child my knowledge of history was from a very Anglo-Canadian outlook. We subscribed to a magazine about Canadian history, and it had stories of Canadian settlers and adventurers and soldiers, as well as some information on people of the First Nations. All I knew of the American war for independence was from a loyalist British view! When w moved to the US I learned about how "right" the American patriots were and how wrong and "evil" the loyalists and Brits were. Then I grew up and actually took an interest in all this history, and discovered no one person was "right" or "wrong" 100%. The patriots gave us freedom of religion and speech and other good things, but they also went to war with their home country after getting that country into a war and not wanting to help pay for the war afterward. No one involved was a saint! It was really a lot of politics on both ends. I also discovered, after being a History major for a year or two, that the US "won" the War of 1812. I had learned that Canada and Britain won. What different views of things! It taught me something that I really think is vital, which is to learn about and respect different views. And to never take a secondary source at face value ;) Now I suggest to people who talk about how great X group was in Y war for fighting for what they believed in that the other side was likely doing the same thing. It's all about understanding the other side. I think when you boil down most disagreements, be it between two individuals, two religious groups, or two countries, when you really boil things down they are fighting over the same thing for similar reasons.

Re: If It's Not Good News, It's Not Evangelical - by Jim Wallis

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:38:49 GMT

well done. when i helped moderate same-sex blessings discussions at our church, i did not have as much success.

love,

nicole

Re: If It's Not Good News, It's Not Evangelical - by Jim Wallis

http://peacehealer.gaia.com — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:31:34 GMT

Hi, Russia - that sense of interconnectedness that you're talking about - and that I see more active in your generation - is really encouraging to me [s]. I've been sending "happy in-ter-dependence day" greetings to people today.

One of the strong threads through much of the Bible is community and the importance of caring for the most vulnerable. The kind of communal thinking we're talking about here has sadly been rare in the United States for quite a while - I think in large part because toxic consumerism so heavily emphasizes self-absorbed individualism. Whatever might be said about President Obama - I deeply appreciate the way he keeps sharing the vision of the collective good - and hope for a shared brighter future.

So - happy interdependence day to you, too :-)

peace and blessings -

Sylvia

Re: If It's Not Good News, It's Not Evangelical - by Jim Wallis

http://russiamoore.gaia.com — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:01:01 GMT

Your story of the discussion of healing prayers reminded me of a similar experience I had (on a more political topic) last year. I had sort of jumped in to "save" someone who had been arguing for same-sex marriage with a group actively fighting against it, all from a very conservative local church. Someone had pointed to the young man's cross necklace and said he was contradictory, so I said that I was Christian and believed in equal marriage rights. This allowed the young man to escape the uncomfortable confrontation, but now I was stuck in his place. I was able to quote and reference scripture well enough that the others put away their bibles, and I was able to suggest a third option, one where civil unions would be granted to anyone by the government and churches and other religious/spiritual groups would dictate who they marry, as marriage is more of a social/spiritual union traditionally. I wasn't expecting a hearty welcome to such an idea, but they thought it an admirable compromise. I really wish I had kept the conversation going in that more constructive bend than let it derail again, because I really think if people find their commonalities and can compromise, there is very little reason to argue angrily. While many older individuals I've mentioned the civil union idea (which I do not take credit for--I believe this is essentially what happens in many European countries already!) seem affronted by turning away "tradition," many younger individuals, perhaps because they see me as an equal, are able to see where I'm coming from.

I do wonder how much of this is because people of my generation haven't had the same struggles as older individuals. My parents went to school believing that Russia could blow them up at any moment. My grandparents saw devastating wars throughout their childhoods and young adult lives. My generation barely remembers the Gulf War or previous economic difficulties, so there has been less "banding together" so to speak. Now that there is war and economic troubles, it is easier for us to have a detached outlook from one's small personal sphere. Unfortunately it can also lead to a rather selfish outlook, as evidenced by two young businessmen I overheard recently complaining that younger workers were being laid off--despite the fact that none of these younger workers had dependents at home to care for and had recent degrees to make them more hirable than their coworkers in their 40s and above. Because I was raised in a very family-oriented environment by thrifty parents (my mother came to North America as a refugee), I try to look as much as possible to the wider community in whether something is acceptable or not. Is it hurting others? Is there a way to minimize or eliminate harm to others? This fits nicely with the instructions to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you," so it has become the basis of my moral and ethical compass. I think for many young people this is becoming a more popular sort of morality.

Re: If It's Not Good News, It's Not Evangelical - by Jim Wallis

http://peacehealer.gaia.com — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:42:04 GMT

Hi, Russia - I grew up outside the church, and was baptized right after graduating from college. Shortly after that, I had the fortune and privilege of connecting with members of the Baptist Peace Fellowship of North America (www.bpfna.org) - which is where I eventually learned about the work of Sojourners and other powerful witnesses of faith in action like the Fellowship of Reconciliation - www.for.org

The challenge of connecting with both conservative Christian folk and folks who may be spiritual but not religious (www.sbnr.org) is quite a balancing act - I hear you. I agree deeply that folks of your generation connect much differently to religion and politics than the preceding generations do (I"m in my mid forties). I'm really encouraged to see many signs of loving pragmatism and hopeful coming together emerging. I had a very interesting talk on Sunday at a local community festival with someone who's part of a quite conservative church. He and other friends were offering free healing prayers - and he was wonderfully open to my talking with him about a parallel ministry at the progressive church I attend - and how it is based on reiki (www.reiki.org)

I think often connecting is about framing our language in such a way that we can share meaning and understanding, whatever the context.

An idea that continues to inspire me:

"Your lived faith may be the only Bible someone will ever read".

Thank you for being a conduit of the Living Word :-)

bright blessings -

Sylvia

Re: If It's Not Good News, It's Not Evangelical - by Jim Wallis

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:37:01 GMT

i'm glad the article i posted so many months ago inspired you. i like your approach of living your truth, it's a beautiful way to live.

i think you would enjoy sojourners, they are very much about love in action.

blessings,

nicole

Re: If It's Not Good News, It's Not Evangelical - by Jim Wallis

http://russiamoore.gaia.com — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 08:26:27 GMT

I can't say that I am. I will have to look into them!

I'll preface the following by saying that I'm a college student who has been raised Christian with a lot of exploring of theologies, but was baptized Episcopalian, a more liberal yet traditional denomination.

I find the issues surrounding youth and religion, especially Christianity and other "conservative" religions very interesting. Though I consider myself liberal, I find I have a lot of friends who are young, conservative Christians. In order to maintain peace we often have to change the topic from religion and politics, but sometimes we can get a great dialogue going on interpretations of scripture and what is ultimately God's will, etc. I find it interesting how younger generations look at their faith and their politics differently from older generations.

I think the tone of the article was very hopeful and inspired some hope in me, because quite often I feel I have to hide that I am Christian from people before they know me well so that they don't write me off as one of "those" people. The fact that my faith inspires me to help others non-judgmentally (or to try my best to) and do other things that I see fitting into a Christian lifestyle but that don't fit into the stereotype of an American Christian seems to throw people off. Rather than pushing my beliefs on someone, I prefer to live by example. If they like what they see, they'll see that people of faith aren't all extremists out to takeover the world! what better way to show that your faith is worth someone's time than by being a good person?

Re: If It's Not Good News, It's Not Evangelical - by Jim Wallis

http://peacehealer.gaia.com — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:19:37 GMT

Hi, Russia - it's good to see activity in this group/pod :-). Are you familiar with the work of the Sojourners community in Washington DC? They do powerful advocacy around issues of poverty, hunger, and homelessness. Jim Wallis is head of that community.

What about this article do you find most interesting?

blessings -

Sylvia

Re: If It's Not Good News, It's Not Evangelical - by Jim Wallis

http://russiamoore.gaia.com — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:28:19 GMT

Sorry to bring this up to top after more than six months, but thanks for posting this article. It's very interesting.

Can Tolle Awaken Christ Consciousness?

http://allison.gaia.com — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:21:53 GMT

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Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

http://maryw.gaia.com — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:59:04 GMT

Hi Timothy, and welcome!

There is more information on the support group in the "announcements" section of Jayne's Contemplation and Beyond pod.

I've yet to join in with the support group's phone meetings, but plan to when I get around to purchasing my Skype technology .....

Blessings,

Mary

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

http://TimothyPaul.gaia.com — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:53:20 GMT

Hello Group!

My name is Timothy. Ive been practicing Contemplative Prayer for about eight years now. Ive been teaching it for about six.

Is your group still meeting? If so, I would like to be a part of it.

Let me know.

Timothy

Re: Integral Christianity Defined

http://Negoba.gaia.com — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:10:21 GMT

I think you may get a number of folks like me, born in the Christian faith, still hold it deep in their soul, but who have looked into the wider experience of God and the Divine. So perhaps another aspect of Integral Christianity is "a Christian community opening their hearts to the wisdom across the world and across time."

There's a quote by Gandhi where he talks about his respect for all religions, seeing them all has having validity. For that very reason he saw no reason to forsake his Hindu faith. I think that describes me somewhat, though I entered my spiritual search through Catholicism.

Re: Contemplative Prayer Support Group

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:37:50 GMT

Dear Jayne,

We'll miss you but we understand.

Next weekend I will be away on Silent Retreat so will have no input into the time. I will see what the others think about the later time so hopefully it will work for you then.

Love,

Nicole