Gaia: Integral Psychotherapy - Introductions -- the Water Cooler

Jung's Self

http://lifeluvver.gaia.com — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 22:08:55 GMT

My understanding of Jung's Self is that it is a composite of a Transpersonal Self, indeed a jivatman, and an Authentic self, something akin to Winnicott's idea of the raw, vulnerable inner self, an egg-yolk surrounded by a personna or Winnicottian albumen. This would place the latter at the level of the first three fulcrums. Given the composite nature of this Self, it lends confusion as to Jung's notion of Individuation when subjected to an Integral lens because this process would have to proceed in two directions; the prepersonal and the transpersonal. Given that Jung was essentially a straight-arrow Cartesian, he had to collapse prepersonal into transpersonal in order to accommodate a unified individuating process towards his notion of the Self.
One individuates by negotiating the archetypes through a combination of enactment and transcendence. Herein lies a confusion of prepersonal archetypes (e.g. trickster, animus/anima) and transpersonal ones (e.g. the five Buddha families in the mahayana samboghakaya) so that the Self (from an integral perspective) is both prepersonal and transpersonal....KWs criticism of Jung as an elevationist is thus born out.
Although it doesn't invalidate out Carl, whose erudition when shorn of the pre/trans fallacy, has a helluvalot to teach us.
Washburn makes the same mistake. KW Eye of spirit. Also KW in dialogue.
Hope this proves of use. x

Jon Pearson

http://lifeluvver.gaia.com — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 21:47:36 GMT

Hello folks...oops, I introduced myself at length on the Topic of How I Am Aided By Being Integrally Informed..sorry, you can check me out there and also on my blog. Briefly, I am a UKCP Registered Psychotherapist who has been reading Ken for 25 years and who welcomes discourse/personal correspondance from all of you. I practice and teach yoga and have a history of umbric and penumbric involvement in various strands of Buddhism. Nice to meet you in this epistemological newness of cyberspace..

Re: Thanks For Allowing Me To Join

http://carla-nash.gaia.com — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:14:02 GMT

Thank you, I'm looking forward to it.

Carla

Re: Thanks For Allowing Me To Join

Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:59:31 GMT

Hello Carla, and welcome,

It is quiet here these days as maybe a lot of people are on holiday. I hope ro interact soon with you .

Blessings

Patrick

Thanks For Allowing Me To Join

http://carla-nash.gaia.com — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 22:34:54 GMT

My name is Carla Nash and I'm still a student and not a practicing Psychologist, but I do love psychology. I haven't really chosen a particular theory of psychology that I prefer over the other, but my interest tends to be in the area of criminal psychology. This partly could be because I work for a police department and get to see first hand not only the mental issues involved with criminals and crimes but also the so-called "cop mentality".

Obviously, I haven't advanced as far as the rest of you have in your education or actual experience but I have found your conversations very interesting and thought provoking. And I would really like the chance to learn from all you.

Carla

Re: Hi from Canmore

http://durwinfoster.gaia.com — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:58:53 GMT

Thanks for being here, Frans!
Durwin

Hi from Canmore

http://onthetrail.gaia.com — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 04:26:19 GMT

Hello all, Durwin graciously invited me to join your pod, after us "meeting" on the II/Zaadz pod. A short introduction seems in place: I am Dutch, I've been living in Canmore, Canada (one of the most beautiful locations I know) for 12 years. I started "On the Trail" (www.onthetrail.ca) in 2002, after many unhappy years as corporate exec. It was a real plunge into the unknown, but the best thing I've ever done. I now spend my days dealing with individuals and groups on a personal development level, with corporations on a team building/leadership development level, and with special needs children and adults on a socialization level. I work mostly with Search & Rescue dogs that I train myself. I find the exposure to dogs, who are always in the present, a real help to achieving shifts and insights for the participants - it seems much easier for most people to accept learning from the dogs in an experiential setting. I have no official qualifications for the kind of work that I do (my degrees are in lit. and an MBA), but have been studying psychology, philosophy and spirituality for the last 10 years. Ken Wilbers work has been hugely influential - it provided me with a number of AHA moments. My own development has taken some huge leaps over the last few years and I am looking to contribute where ever I can. Looking forward to getting to know you all - see you in the threads! Frans

Re: Greetings from the Desert

Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:38:00 GMT

Hello Durwin and Bill,

Just reacting on Duwrin's post about Jung. The Self in Jungian terminology is not the Self of Vedanta, as Atman. The Jungian Self would be closer to the Jivatman, or the Jiva. This is what I got from my readings on the matter.

Love to you,

Patrick

Re: Greetings from the Desert

http://integral-options.gaia.com — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:13:21 GMT

To be honest, I haven't read much Jung in the last 10-15 years. Michael Washburn is a neo-Jungian who attempts a somewhat integral understanding of Jung's work -- someone you might want to check out (Wilber and him had a go-round back in the 1980's over the pre/trans fallacy that informs much of Jung and some critical elements of Washburn). Aside from a few misgivings, Washburn is worth looking at.

If you email me (you can get my address on the sidebar at IOC), I'll email you the Raven article, and if I can find it, a chart I created once trying to fit Jung and Wilber into a model that works for both -- mostly a developmental model.

Peace,
Bill

Re: Greetings from the Desert

http://durwinfoster.gaia.com — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 03:26:10 GMT

Hi Bill:
I am in conversation (perhaps shadow warfare at times!) with some Jungian folks...but really, I would like to find a way to bridge Integral to Jung's material, particularly at the level of injunctions: e.g. active imagination...dream analysis...these both seem to work with subtle states of consciousness, so can distinguish injunctions that access subtle states from causal injunctions (e.g. centering prayer) here...does Jung have any causal-state injunctions? He speaks of Self, which seems to be borrowed from Vedanta...I know he was exposed to Kundalini yoga...

...any light you can share on these points greatly appreciated...and...I tried to access your article, but was not convinced I wanted to pay for membership...would you be willing to share the text of your article with me? Raven and shadow...sounds interesting...

Take care,

Durwin

Greetings from the Desert

http://integral-options.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:16:11 GMT

My name is Bill Harryman -- Durwin kindly invited me to join this pod, for which I am grateful.

I am not a practicing therapist or mental health professional. Currently I am a writer and personal trainer -- but I am often "coaching" or providing emotional/psychological support for my clients. Some of my writing work has been in the relam of psychology, including a paper at the CG Jung Page.

Once upon a time, in a land far far away, I was a psych major. I quit halfway through my senior year and became an English major instead. Still, I read widely in psychology and have tried to keep with up with current trends, especially the integral model offered by Wilber and others.

I will be returning to school next year to begin a PhD in clinical psych at the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology.

I look forward to seeing what all of you are doing in integral psychotherapy.

Peace.

Re: About me, Vivian Baruch

http://vanessafisher.gaia.com — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 17:22:37 GMT

Great to see you on here Vivian! Sounds like amazing work you are doing.
Just curious if you knew Sarah Nicholson's work, she lives there in Sydney with you and is doing work with integral feminism (see Integral feminism article in AQAL journal). She is also here on Zaadz as Sass. Just thought you might have a lot to connect about.
Anyways, glad to see your post, keep up the great integral work!

About me, Vivian Baruch

http://vivianbaruch.gaia.com — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 23:14:31 GMT

Hi all you 04 Integral Psych attendees. I'll post a brief intro here, but it's also the same as my profile.

I've been practicing as a counsellor since 1981 in Sydney, Australia and am passionate about working with and developing an integrally-informed approach to my life and work. in my private practice I work with individuals (late teens and over) and couples, using coaching, counselling or psychotherapeutic means to assist with whatever issues the clients present. I'm also an educator at the Australian College of Applied Psychology, teaching Developmental Psych and Conflict Management, mostly at undergrad level.

In my personal life I've been blessed to have the most delightful, insightful , warm and fun husband who I met through the Sydney Integral group and with whom I'm learning about integral relationships. The two of us facilitate the ILP branch of our group, which also has a monthly Reading group, a Meetup and an Integral Organisational Development arm. Simon and I have just recently changed the format of our ILP group so that every session covers a physical, spiritual and shadow aspect, with an implicit cognitive component which happens via the group discussion/process.

I've briefly cruised around and explored the other posts Durwin's added, as well as the reading list, which I want to work through. Currently I'm waiting with bated breath for a final edit from KW on my paper called "An Integral Perspective on Promoting Thriving for Therapists", which supposedly is to be published in the AQAL Journal (if The Man gives it the thumbs up). Basically the paper's about encouraging therapists to apply an ILP as a means of maintaining a well-functioning "self".

That's enough for now.

Cheers,
Vivian.

Thanks for begining this pod, Durwin!

http://jikishin.gaia.com — Sat, 02 Jun 2007 23:02:58 GMT

This can only do me good. Without any background in psychotherapy, nor even a single private session to my credit, I do want to begin to avail myself of the wealth of knowledge generated by the field and to grow in new ways.

Years ago I did get to spend some time with Werner Engel and, years latter, Harry Wilmer. These guys were two of the crossover students, first under Freud, then under Jung, who immigrated to north america. The memory of their healing presence, their conversational creativity, and profound appreciation still reverberates in my regard of the practices they helped to pioneer, of which I still know little. It's just that my sense of the men themselves is imbued with the love they enacted.

I look forward to learning here in this pod, in this head/heart, and along with you all.

jikishin

Re: Hi!

http://durwinfoster.gaia.com — Mon, 28 May 2007 23:11:26 GMT

Welcome Patrick: great to have you here!

Hi!

Mon, 28 May 2007 20:59:28 GMT

Hello to all of you,

I'm happy to have found this pod...what a great idea.

I'm usually not talking of my profession on Zaadz, but here is a space for me.

I'm a psychotherapist from Switzerland. I've been working for ten years with adults in private practice.

I am trained in group psychotherapy (psychodynamic model) and in cognitive -behavioral therapy.

My daily practice is made of one-on-one therapy during day and three groups during the weeks, mostly in the evenings.

Since I was twenty years old I discovered vedanta and meditation. I've always wanted to blend psychotherapy and eastern techniques and vision of the Self.

In 97 I discovered Ken Wilber and he provided a much needed frame for me.

I'm looking forward to post some of my questionning on this pod

Patrick

Re: Greetings Everyone!

http://durwinfoster.gaia.com — Thu, 17 May 2007 23:26:55 GMT

Welcome Tim!

Greetings Everyone!

http://listener.gaia.com — Thu, 17 May 2007 15:42:54 GMT

My name is Tim Black and I am an Assistant Professor of Counselling Psychology at a Canadian University here in British Columbia. Not trying to be cryptic, I just want to be free to be on here without "representing" my place of work everytime I post:)!

I have been a fan of Integral Metatheory for a few years now and have worked with both Elliott and Durwin on writing projects in the Integral Psychotherapy domain of Ken's Integral Institute.

My biggest challenge as a psychotherapist (I have a small private practice as well) is to apply KW's theory to the real world. The theory is elegant, complex and very helpful and making it applicable has become a labour of love you might say.

I am also a musician and songwriter (amateur to be sure) and enjoy all discussions Integral. Thanks Durwin and Elliott for setting this up for all of us.

Best,
Tim

Re: About me: Durwin Foster, M.A.

http://durwinfoster.gaia.com — Tue, 15 May 2007 00:05:15 GMT

Hello Transfinite Turtles!!!
I'll definitely let you know how the parenting thing goes along...
Administratively speaking, somehow you managed to reply 8 times to my introduction...let me see if I can take care of this somehow...
Glad you have arrived here! Hopefully this pod will grow into a useful forum, perhaps even a weblog...
Regards,
Durwin

Hi folks! Tim Warneka checking in ....

http://timwarneka.gaia.com — Mon, 14 May 2007 18:26:26 GMT

Hi all!

My name is Tim Warneka. I'm a counselor from Cleveland, Ohio. I'm also playing with the connections between counseling and coaching. My primary coaching work is with leaders. I'm fascinated by conscious capitalism and have been wrestling with the concept of creating right livlihood as an independent mental health practition for 8 -10 years now.

I'm a black belt in the revolutionary non-violent martial art of Aikido. I believe Aikido to be a transformative integral practice, and it has, quite literally, changed my life. All of my work (counseling, coaching, keynote speaking, writing, training, etc.) is deeply influenced by Aikido.

For more information on me (as well as books that I have written), feel free to visit my websites at:

http://www.timwarneka.com
http://www.blackbeltconsultants.com
http://www.asogomi.com

Looking forward to hearing from everyone else!

Peace,

Tim