Gaia: Integral Spirituality

Re: New Here

Wed, 20 Jun 2007 16:47:47 GMT

There must be a way for zaadz to inform me when there is a reply to pod posts here :)

Sorry for the late late late response, Bruce. I see that you do alot of work here at zaadz esp on your own blog. Amazing work!

I d love to visit San Franscisco. I read in WIE that there is supposedly a depository of *energy* there. Makes sense. :)

As for Integral texts - mostly came to Integral by way of Ken Wilber. Read most of his earlier books, and had a long lapse before I picked up Integral Spirituality and WIE magazines, reading from the Internet, from greatly informative blogposts like your own...

I was hoping this pod was a discussion for kw's book Integral Spirituality.

Re: New Here

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Sun, 20 May 2007 17:41:17 GMT

Hi, Johann,

Nice to see some activity here! I joined this pod hoping it was still somewhat active, but it hasn't been. (I know how that goes; I started a few pods myself that hardly get any traffic.)

I have visited Singapore before. Lived at the house of an artist friend for several weeks. Currently I am living in the San Francisco Bay Area of California.

What sorts of Integral books have you read? Anything by Wilber, Aurobindo, others?

Best wishes,

B.

Re: New Here

Sun, 20 May 2007 11:45:34 GMT

Hello Balder
Just joined
Hi I am Johann
Recently I gotten very interested in things Integral.

I am in SIngapore. Where might you be?
I do hope this pod becomes more inhabited. :)

Green(and hoping to get to teal or sumthin),
Johann

New Here

http://brucealderman.gaia.com — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:58:27 GMT

Just a brief shout out to everyone here. This looks like a nice pod -- but too quiet! (I know how that goes; one of the pods I started collects about 1 post a month.)

I've been a student of integral theory and spirituality for about twelve years, starting first with my introduction to Wilber's works, then expanding out to learn about some other approaches as well (esp. Aurobindo's). About a year ago, I graduated with an MA in Integral Psych, but haven't found a really good way to apply it yet.

I'm interested in exploring integral spirituality -- not just as Wilber has formulated it, though I think he's made an important contribution and "raised the bar" in a few ways. For instance, I've long been interested in interreligious dialogue -- and an "integral spiritual" model doesn't resolve all of the problems and points of contention that arise interreligiously. It just provides a framework that members of different traditions can employ in their ongoing effort to learn new ways to communicate and practice integrally in our religiously pluralistic world. I'm interested in exploring the promise (and the problems) of integral theory in facilitating deeper levels of interreligious dialogue.

But I'm also interested in integral spirituality on the level of personal practice -- and have been exploring the interface of Integral postmetaphysics with various traditions, particularly my main practice, TSK. I'd love to hear how others are applying integral principles in their own spiritual practices and traditions.

Looking forward to talking with all of you,

Balder

"Throwing Away"

http://secretspace.gaia.com — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:11:55 GMT

Thich Nhat Hanh gives a Dharma talk on throwing away 4 key notions based on the Diamond Sutra: self, human being, living being, and life span.

http://www.deerparkmonastery.org/dharma_talks/video/2006_06_08.html

What IS "Transformation" anyway?

http://secretspace.gaia.com — Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:13:50 GMT

I'd love to hear people's thoughts regarding their concepts, associations, and experiences related to "transformation" and processes of transformation. Look forward to learning from other people's perspectives on this.

Re: Integral Spiritual Maps

http://eos.gaia.com — Mon, 01 Jan 2007 08:29:19 GMT

this is related to the issue of linear/nonlinear maps... Each level (stage, chakra, meme, need, etc) already exists. It is our conscious awareness of each level that evolves/develops/changes. That is to say, the oak exists within the acorn. A seed develops into a tree but the code is inherent. Each level is the holographic progression/development of the original code. (Like musical variations on a theme. The notes are all there. You may or may not be using all of them. Maybe your hearing is such that you can only hear a certain range of sounds. ((Or maybe you can hear all the notes but you play an instrument and you like to use the same three over and over or you have a handicap that impedes your ability to play. Or maybe you are simply just a beginner who is still learning how to play.)) The point is that the notes already exist. It is a person's awareness of the notes ((and subsequent ability to use them)) that determines the quality, range, complexity of the sound that is heard ((or created)).) (The ability to use something is really an interactive awareness as opposed to an observational awareness.) Imagine each level on a vertical grid. In terms of a spiral/chakra/hierarchy of needs grid, (1) beige/root/survival >>> (2) purple/sacral/security >>> etc (or whatever map you prefer). If you imagine a mature tree on this grid, you could say that the root system corresponds to the first level, the base to the second level, the trunk to the third level, the main branches to the fourth, leaves to the fifth, fruit to the sixth. Then imagine the growth process of a seed into a tree on the same grid. At one foot tall the tree is still in the second purple/sacral/security level (the pre-sprouting phase having been the first beige/root/survival level). But within that level are also the formative levels of a mature tree. If you took a picture of a young tree and a mature tree then made the pictures the same size, you can compare the development of the root system, the trunk, the leaves. Our personal development is the same process. We view it as a primarily upward growth process, but it is also outward (e.g. branches, leaves, fruit), inward (photosynthesis), and downward (?) (root systems). Tree analogies aside, the most important implication of this developmental perspective is that because (A) in a sense each level already exists, then (B) while our *conscious* awareness is at a particular level, how we answer/embody/satisfy the questions/energy/needs of that level affects the continual *unconscious* development of subsequent and previous levels. ...This is my understanding. Or at least this is the map that I am using at the moment.

Re: Integral Spiritual Maps

http://magi.gaia.com — Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:53:53 GMT

I have practiced several Tibetan techniques and compared them with similar Kabbalha practices as and have found that they have very different personalities (if that makes sense). However, my Tibetan experiences are very similar to my Neoplatonic work. I often experience similarities during insight meditation as in discursive meditation on the One, which is itself very similar to the Big Mind experience that Wilber is so fond of, which again is similar to the experience of the Middle Pillar practice in Occultism which is based in Kabbalha. A tremendous amount of cross pollination went on between these traditions during the 19th and early 20th centuries that made comparisons within these systems very applicable. Another great combination of techniques that you can find in Integral circles is the Use of Big Mind-Big Heart with Tonglen.

I beleive Wilber bases his theory in consciousness evolution as a result of repeated exposure to altered states upon his experience within the meditative community comparing consciousness expansion with the practice and frequency in different traditions. He is however quick to point out that evolution in consciousness does not free the rest of your quadrants from their stages, which is why you must practice integrally in order to make sure the rest of you catches up to your evolving consciousness.

Namaste

Re: Integral Spiritual Maps

http://secretspace.gaia.com — Thu, 14 Sep 2006 03:58:16 GMT

Hi Drake,

Thanks for sharing. I'm curious about the notion that contemplative states in what in Wilber's system would be the subtle and causal realms would promote stage acquisitions. Do you have a reference for that or know what type of study he's basing that assertion on? I'd be curious to take a look at it.

It's interesting what you mention about the tree of life and the chakra system 'cause in undergrad when I was studying comparative religion, one of my teachers, Barbara Holdredge, who is a religious studies scholar with extensive background in both of those systems presented the tree of life and one of the students and myself saw that if you looked at it three dimensionally it looks a lot like a type of chakra system. I don't have much background in Neoplatonism so I must claim ignorance but your practices are quite intriguing.

I wonder what the differences would be between doing various subtle and causal level practices in say Tibetan Buddhism in contrast as to what you experience. Would be interesting to examine the similarities in differences.

Thanks for opening your world to me,
Warm Regards,
Kelly

Nice Tool for Moving towards a Cosmocentric Perspective

http://secretspace.gaia.com — Thu, 14 Sep 2006 03:44:42 GMT

I watched this whole thing one night and was really inspired and impressed by it. I had read some stuff by Braine Swimme before and love his stuff. He teaches at CIIS in San Francisco in the Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness program. Seems like a great program. Enjoy!

http://www.global-mindshift.org/

Toward the First Revolution in the Mind Sciences

http://secretspace.gaia.com — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:57:18 GMT

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=983112177262602885&q=alan+wallace

Would love to hear your thoughts and start a discussion on this.

Re: Integral Spiritual Maps

http://magi.gaia.com — Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:05:34 GMT

Centaur, you are absolutely right that progress is not really very linear but messy and organic. The nice and tidy maps that are generated are definetly graphics meant to illustrate as oppossed to photographs of progression. I am however, not sure that I would agree if the instuition of Marxism is a Green development. I think that the fact that Marxism focuses so much on the loyalty to the state the inherent nationalism seems to take it back down to blue. I think Marx's original points in the communist manifesto may have originally steamed from a Green outlook but the instuitions that ended up embodying his ideas seemed to regress more then progress.

Namaste

Re: Integral Spiritual Maps

http://thecentaur.gaia.com — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:06:45 GMT

I think that the healthy green worldview will be held by the average American within in a few generations. The speed of our evolution of consciousness is accelerating. Were coming so close to a time when, stated in What is Enlightenment, the children will be tested in the integral theory as part of the standard education. I must be a little impatient these days with all this kool integral stuff going on and the majority still in the not in the loop about our next step in spiritual evolution.

Re: Integral Spiritual Maps

http://magi.gaia.com — Wed, 09 Aug 2006 14:23:16 GMT

Sorry it took me a month to respond I have been on the road a lot lately and have had some trouble keeping up.

The bulk of my work is to move into subtle and casual states of consciousness during meditation so as to touch the next stage, if you do it often enough your center of gravity will shift and you will be left with a new stage acquasition.

My meditation practices themselves are typically Kundalini Yoga Mantra Sat Nam which translates to "Truth is my identity" followed by meditation focusing on Chakra breathing most often through the heart and third eye, often using body locks to stimulate Kundalini movement. I also use diety visualization by building the image of God in my mind's eye and super impossing it (usually Shiva is my image for this) I also read from the Corpus Hermetica or the Siva Sutras.

As far as my map goes

Wilber has already drawn comparisons between Chakra's and his map, as well as his map and the Tree of life, I have also compared the tree of life with the Heremetic Planetary spheres (which seem to either have been inspired by, or are themselves the inspiration for the Neoplatonic Great Chain) which the Tantrics also compared with the Chakra system. Its really just a matter of lining them up next to each other and using the best explination for the Stage features that I experience in the meditative state.

Namaste

Re: Integral Spiritual Maps

http://s2.gaia.com — Mon, 07 Aug 2006 04:34:40 GMT

I just joined zaadz and this is my first post. I hope there is no problem replying to a post that was written 2 months ago. The topic is timeless, I can't imagine there would be a problem with month long period between responses.

I have been into Spiral Dynamics and enjoy Ken Wilber's take on it. The map is extremely good for ploting how cultures class. An excellent example of this is the current blue Hazballah versus the Orange/blue Israelis. I have been exploring the many forms of this map from Clare Graves, Don Beck and Ken Wilber.

Though I have a criticism of this system as a linear movement. I have been thinking that the course of this progression is not so much linear as evolutionary. One level emerges from another but it is impossible to prodict the shape of the emegence. Let me elaberate.

Boomeritus (Wilber 2003) is a book about the movement of the formal orange meme code towards the green post formal meme codes. The example of this are the Boomers who rejected conventional success oriented society and embraced a pluralistic meme codes. (much of the book discusses the inherent disfunction of this transition into narcisism).

I would like to suggest that this emergence of orange to green has been happening in various forms over the last 200 years. One of the greatest forms of this orange to green emergence was Marxism. Here a 19th century economist saw plural, anti hierachical social system as a cure for the ills of the orange memed industrial revolution.

But like any evolutionary movement, it represented a mutation in capitolism with a new emergence of a political economic system. But it did not survive, because it was not stong.

Perhaps the green meme that Wilber calls boomeritus is the same. It is not a strong enough cultural code to survive.

I believe that we have not seen the emergence of a healthy thriving green meme system soon. We probably won't see one for a while. After all, the blue meme conventional form existed in various states for a couple millenium before orange emergence. Why should we not expect a few millenium of orange before we see green?

Isn't getting a little ahead of ourselves to consider second tiered memes as anything other then a small subculture?

S.

Re: INtroductions"""

Sat, 05 Aug 2006 16:21:06 GMT

Brandon,

Vipassana and Kirtan has me too ...

Re: INtroductions"""

Sat, 05 Aug 2006 16:18:34 GMT

Primary teachings: Buddhism
Favorite teacher: Dr. David Hawkins and Gurdjieff ... and Krishnamurti ... well, GangaJi, and Adyshanti, and Tolle... (the first two / three are my favorites)
How I see reality: I see it as a construct of energy molded by brain. Don't know how, but I've seen through the veil ... directly to the energy and experimented a bit with it and learned a few things about seeing.

Re: What is Integral Morals and Ethics?

http://secretspace.gaia.com — Fri, 04 Aug 2006 19:05:51 GMT

Hi Earth Energy,

Usually in moral development research, different researchers pose different situations and scenarios to the participants in the research. The scenarios are structured to get at how the participants think about and reason about life, morality, and ethics. The classic researcher in this field is Lawrence Kohlberg. Although there is debate, overall his system seems to be standing up to cross cultural research. There appears to be different developmental structures of moral reasoning that unfold over a person's life course.

According to the handout we received, in terms of Wilber's AQAL framework, morals would fall under the individual-interior quadrant ("What should I do?"), ethics under the collective-interior quadrant ("What should we do?"), behavior in the exterior-individual (What we actually do), and laws in the exterior-collective (What we must do and their consequences).

I've also heard of morals as what is interior and ethics as what is exterior similar as to what the wikipedia definition states.

"The non reductionistic human nature value theory" to me would be either expressing a particular type of developmental structure or presenting a more feminine view of morals (i.e. Carol Gilligan). I don't see "feeling" and "reason" as two competing aspects but more complementary aspects of a whole being. Although in the process of living, I think there can be interior conflicts which if fleshed out usually has competing subpersonalities or aspects of self in conflict. These subpersonalities usually have an approximate age, an approximate worldview, and an approximate system of morals, ethics, and actions. I think an integral perspective would attempt to make decisions, perform actions, and create laws based on the greatest good of the interior community of subpersonalities and the exterior community of sentient beings.

Best wishes.

Re: INtroductions"""

http://generativetransformation.gaia.com — Fri, 04 Aug 2006 18:58:21 GMT

Howdy, all. I was raised Roman Cat'lick, as we said in Chicago. I didn't buy into any of it, and was mostly a materialist until late 2004 when I attended a Vipassana retreat in India. I had a pretty intense experience that left me with the insight that I'm not me, rather eternal, one and all-powerful. This was quite a change, confirming my inclinations as a result of being introduced to quantum physics and paranormal psych a year earlier.

I'm heavily influenced by Integral Yoga, Buddhism, Native American spirituality and the Greek philosophers. My primary practice is Vipassana, though I do some Bhakti (japa - beads, kirtan - chanting) as well. I'm part of an Integral Yoga study group here in Sac and love it.

Great to meet you all here - what an awesome pod!

Blessings,
Brandon
http://www.blissquestlife.com
http://www.gtawareness.com

Re: What is Integral Morals and Ethics?

http://secretspace.gaia.com — Fri, 04 Aug 2006 18:37:43 GMT

Hi Laurie,

You bring up a lot of good points and considerations. Personally I ended up choosing to go. What was interesting was that initially I felt ready to go probably because my worldview and experience lends me not to see death as an ending but merely a transition. I am strongly influenced by reincarnation research and Tibetan Buddhism in this regard. Nobody ended up getting voted off. We instead went around the circle checking in with our different feelings and viewpoints and at a certain point people who were ready to step off the boat were allowed too. However, if anyone wanted to take the place of someone who stepped into the middle they were also allowed to. It was a very touching and moving process. I noticed that when it comes to reasoning and when it comes to action there can be a real trial. Although reasoing wise I felt ready to go, when I actually decided to take the place of someone in the middle it was a very difficult process just to initiate the action. I think this is the case in real life also. One professor at Stanford mentioned that in experiments individuals who were rated high in terms of their moral reasoning, did not actually act accordingly in certain situations. I'd like to see more research on what contributes to that alignment of view and action.

Love,
Kelly