Infinity Monastery?

Hello, I found a forum the other day and posted something I've been thinking about for a long time. It's not integral so I can't use the phrases, so I had to adjust to their center of gravity. Anyway, I would love to discuss it with you as well, so I'll just copy and paste the entire thing:

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[…] My first question here is, do you think it would be possible and desirable to construct the first ever monastery based not on the rules and dogmas of a theistic church, but on a ground integrating modern and post-modern cognition with a trans-personal type spirituality?

Modern in the sense that we recognize the value of reason, logic, evidence and the existence of a single Truth independent of human subjectivity.

Post-modern in the sense that we recognize all dualistic knowledge and formulations not as pre-given and static, but always as fabricated and interpreted through a lens of biological, social and cultural conditioning.

Trans-personal in the sense that we recognize that no person (any: I, you, we) or phenomena (any: it) has any analytically findable essence or self capable of sustaining itself; but instead always defined and existing in relation and dependence. In this way, God is revealed as the Ineffable Infinite - and because you are not, there is only that. This, could be the ground of spirituality in the monastery. And God could be approached in three ways. In the 1-p: the Infinite Suchness as experienced as awareness or I AM. In the 2-p: The Infinite Suchness experienced as the great Other, to which we surrender our separate sense of self and praise God for the gifts he/she/it has given. Or in the 3-p: The Infinite Suchness experienced as nature; that mystery of dynamically unfolding matter/energy and the profound interconnected systems operating through the one Law of Nature not yet discovered. Or Highest Expression: Meditation not through any activity or perspective. Akin to the practice of Shikantaza in Zen - a direct, non-conceptual and non-dual expression and union in God.

The day would be, just like in any monastery, always permeated by silence. [Picture.] The main activity would be a type of meditation/prayer, where we would seek God in any of the three perspectives. Other activities could be (manual) labour, personal education (science, morals, wisdom), intellectual debate in common, art, recreation, ceremonies, inter-religious discussion, sharing the accumulated wisdom with the public through the internet or in meetings - in preparation for the coming techno post-human era, etc.

Do you believe such a monastery where men or women could come together to celebrate life - and contribute to all self-conscious beings the highest expression of timeless wisdom free from dogma and superstition - would be possible in this modern age?

(Anyone who don't know about the idea of a monastic life could watch the excellent documentary Into Great Silence.)

Re: Infinity Monastery?

I saw that documentary, for some reason it was not all that appealing.  Although I really like the lifestyle that you described I would like more interaction with the public than what was showed in the film - also more smiling and fun.

Re: Infinity Monastery?

Hi, Is,

Yes, something like this would be quite attractive.  Since there actually have been non-theistic monasteries for centuries (e.g., Buddhist ones), I am wondering if you are really asking about – or promoting the vision of – a monastery for the emerging Integral spirituality.  If so, I do think it's likely that Integral spiritual practice communities will eventually emerge.  In recent years, the literature from I-I sounds more and more like a “new religion” is in the offing.

When I was younger, I wanted to be a monk – soaking in Thomas Merton's writings, inquiring with various monasteries around the country.  The only ones I was interested in were those that were involved in East-West dialogue and which incorporated Buddhist and Hindu practices as well as Christian ones.  Surprisingly, perhaps, there are a number of such places around the United States.  Later, when I left Christianity and began studying Buddhism, Krishnamurti, and related teachings more seriously, I sought out and found a number of interesting communities – an “open” Buddhist ashram on the island of Java, Krishnamurti schools and study centers (and residential, intentional communities) around the world.

Now I'm older and have my own family, so I won't go in that direction at this point in my life.  But I still am attracted to the idea of creating communities of inquiry and practice… 

Regarding your own vision, if I were shopping for communities and you had one like the one you described, I'd probably ask you to clarify the “modern” portion of your statement – clarifying how the “single Truth” is apprehended and communicated, for instance.

All the best,

B.

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Hi Is,

It occurred to me that actually Integral spiritual communities have been existing already for a few centuries. However these have not been calling themselves by that name.

I have just returned from a weekend seminar in co-freemasonry. And I feel once again stunned at the high integral level this community operates from.

Its principles and way of functioning includes modern, postmodern and transpersonal approaches in the way you describe in your post. My personal experience is again and again that these are not just some idealistically cherished values, but the air people in this community breathe.

People, who are not capable of living up to these standards, as a rule leave the community. In that way those who stay form a pretty selected community.

The lodge meetings function at their best from the level of unity and silence. Everyone in the lodge has a certain role to play in the meeting, and hence participates actively. There are persons, who  function as guards, and whose
role is to keep the outer world away, so that it cannot enter the lodge even in the thoughts of the participants in disturbing ways. In this sense the lodge meetings form a part time monastery.

When the lodge meeting operates properly the participants function together as one body. While functioning as part of one bigger body, the participant keep their uniqueness, and simultaneously play their given roles in the whole. In this milieu often the different opinions and perspectives the brethren present are felt as mutually enriching, and together forming a bigger whole than any perspective alone.

The freemasonic work is also externally surrounded by silence, which the outsiders tend to interpret as dubious secrecy. People may think the secrecy is there, because of what the masons do in their lodges, does not stand daylight.

There is few dogmas in Freemasonry. We are allowed to intepret even those in personal ways. We are encouraged to practice in the different domains you mention. However our hands are left free in our choice of approach and technique. People can have differing religious backrounds and interpretations. It is seen to be enriching the work in the lodge.

There is very little room for person cult in the structure of the organization. However the organization is hierarchical. People trying to use their high hierarchical position in a way, that could be described as dominator hierarchies, does occasionally appear. At least in the community I belong to we have been able to clear out these situations.

Freemasons don't preach their approach and methods to the world. Rather they go to the world, and function there the best they can according to the insights they personally have been able to internalize from their masonic work. Freemasonry is a co-operative endeavor. The concept of personal enlightenment does not exist there. The idea of being able to to function in the world and serve others from a place of wisdom is strongly present.

I doubt that a monastic life, where people live in isolation, could truly be integral, because it excludes the challenges of the world.

Irmeli

Re: Infinity Monastery?

“Surprisingly, perhaps, there are a number of such places around the United States.”

Huh? Where?!

“I am wondering if you are really asking about – or promoting the vision of – a monastery for the emerging Integral spirituality.”
 
Well, kinda. Most of all it would be a mix of Christian/Muslim ideas with those of Buddhism. I feel that Buddhism is awesome in its logic and reason, non-dogmatic ways, and in it's encouragement for all people to achieve Buddhahood. But I feel that Buddhism also leaves something out, and I don't blame them, because its only goal is to end suffering. That left out item is God - the feeling of awe and reverence for the mystery of existence in general, and there I think Christianity has done a much better job, obviously.

So my dream is to integrate these two into one coherent, trans-cultural/religious whole. Integral Spirituality does a good job and I'd definitely want to incorporate the best parts of the IS, but I'm not fully comfortable with the state-model, the subtle/causal energy components and Wilber's yogachara jabbering about “Radical Emptiness”.

“clarifying how the “single Truth” is apprehended and communicated, for instance.”

It's simply the use of consequences as a means for dualistic knowledge. For example, you have an uncomfortable consequence on your hands if you believe that gravity doesn't work on a person is brought up to not believe in gravity (extreme Green). Or, you have an uncomfortable consequence on your hands if you believe it is possible to walk on water, because it can't be demonstrated (Amber).

The use of consequences to refute others views is possible because there is a single Truth (what I call God). If this Truth didn't exist, everything would be chaotic and you wouldn't be able to state consequences because the rules of nature would constantly change.

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Thanks for sharing that about Freemasonry, Irmeli. My grandfather were a member as well.

“I doubt that a monastic life, where people live in isolation, could truly be integral, because it excludes the challenges of the world.”
 
Wilber says that there is nothing wrong with specialization. (And when Wilber says something, that is the unquestionable Truth.) If a group of men or women wants to live in isolation, in union and celebration of God, this indeed might not directly solve global warming, but there are other ways to help. For example global warming can not be solved by people at Amber/Orange and below; if ”Infinity Monks” cultivate and share wisdom with the world from an (atleast) Turquoise worldspace, this might be a great indirect contribution, wouldn't you say?

One perticular official Lower Quadrant function of an Infinity Monastery could perhaps be to act as a upwards-pulling magnet on the local community's Center of Gravity in the cognitive and moral lines. 

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One thing I appreciated about Thomas Merton's approach was his notion of the importance for society of “marginal” people – those who willingly withdrew from it and stood outside, not to reject it altogether, but to serve it, to reflect on it from a distance and then feed back into it in a transformative way.  Merton approached this in his own life more directly than many other monks, actually serving an “activist” role for different social movements of his day, while also promoting growth within his community (for instance, helping lead it into dialogue with other contemplative traditions of the world, and then working with these different communities to translate this back into positive work in the world.)

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Is:One perticular official Lower Quadrant function of an Infinity Monastery could perhaps be to act as a upwards-pulling magnet on the local community's Center of Gravity in the cognitive and moral lines.

I wonder how people in the infinity monastery can evolve in the lower quadrant affairs of their local community, if they don't need to face in their own lives the challenges people in their local community struggle with: working for their livelihood, raising kids etc. How do the monastery monks learn to get along with many kinds of people, and people from many different developmental levels in challenging situations? How do they learn to deal with the expectations people from these different levels put on others, if you live in isolation from these people.
Interaction with people,even  frustrating ones, create the connectedness to them also on the deeper levels. I think these indirect subtle influences exist, but this influence becomes clearly stronger, if there is a strong connection. And I think this influence becomes even stronger, if you share the difficulties people in the local community have. In that case a person having access to Turquoise  worldspace, and even turquoise center of gravity in one's psychograph,  can have significant indirect influence in the community. And that person does not need to be in a leading position.

I think specialization is very useful and necessary in human collectives. Living in monasteries serves certain important spiritual functions in that sense. I however think that this lifestyle too easily becomes an escape from everyday life. Monastic life is often a kind of assisted living made possible by people who live in the challenges  of the “world” . The monks and nuns can focus on developing in themselves advanced states at the cost of evolving through the stages.

 I am inclined to believe that for successful evolving through the stages also appropriate challenges are needed. Living in the world nicely provides for them.

Irmeli

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Well one monastic I know gave a talk about this very subject. He said most of the monks at his monastery were very capable lay people who became monks later in their lives. So they were all well aware of the demands of the culture they lived in. He said they could all disrobe and go back to their successful lives very easily. He even talked about how there were personality “conflicts” within his monastery but the way their day was scheduled, they could actually use those differences as fodder for their practice. That is, they had the time to unravel what was underneath those critical feelings. He said in his former life he would not have paid much attention to them i.e. on to the next task, etc. Now maybe this is different in a monastery where Buddhism is already culturally established and monks start their career a bit younger and so don’t “develop thru the stages” within their culture as you say. The old Indian model comes to mind…you work and have a family and later in life you become a sort of renunciate. My father-in-law is a bit like this. His not so immediate family and friends can’t understand why he does not work anymore or is not so involved with his old friends. They can’t seem to fathom what he does all day.

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Balder:  “Surprisingly, perhaps, there are a number of such places around the United States.”

Is:  Huh? Where?!
 
There are quite a few – they seem to be growing.  Here are a few that I can recall off the top of my head.

Spencer Abbey - A Trappist Catholic monastery.  It is, by name, not an interfaith community, but in practice, the monks use yoga, Zen, and other forms of Eastern meditation along with their own traditional contemplative practices, and they are also participate in various inter-faith dialogues and practices.

Abbey of Gethsemani - Thomas Merton's monastery, also Trappist.  Similar to the above: Catholic in name and form, but also open to Eastern practices, with some members carrying on Merton's legacy of dialoguing with Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, and Sufism.

New Carmaldoli Hermitage - a Benedictine monastery, associated with Father Bede Griffiths, who founded a Christian-Vedanta ashram in India and also encourages the integration of Christian thought, Eastern nondual spirituality, ecological awareness, and new science.

Zen Center of Orange County - a Zen community which integrates Zen and Christian perspectives and practices.

High Mountain Crystal Lake Zen Community - another Zen-Christian community.

And here's a website which explores Christianity in relation to Eastern paths, Jungian psychology, and the like.

Re: Infinity Monastery?

Thank you for those recommendations, Bruce. Saint Joseph's Abbey (Spencer) sounds quite interesting indeed.

The one thing I would dread going into a Christian monestary is not the silence, not the isolation, not the lack of things happening, not the chastity, not the complete surrender to God and the Abbot, etc - but having to lie to myself because of some Amber dogma. For example, it is said you can't be a Christian if you don't believe that Christ literally flew up to heaven in his physical body. I mean, wtf? Sometimes it strikes me how young and immature our western religious traditions really are.

In Tibet and Nepal they are inquiring into the deep and subtle nature of phenomena arising moment to moment - here we are still forced to put all our energy into believing that a guy was born without having sex. <sighs>

What bothers me also is the insistance of Jesus as the only son of God. This seems to set up an eternal separation from the Father as something glorious, and I don't get it. Hmh, I'm also afraid that I would recieve instant excommunication if I tried to express any of my views while in the monastery.

“What, no soul?! How dare you - get outta 'ere right now! Jesus hates people like you!”

I will mail Spencer Abbey and gently inquire about this.

Re: Infinity Monastery?

Hi, Is, I expect you will find people who think that way in most Christian communities, but from my studies, I've found a lot of progressive thought emerging from the monasteries – not the Amber stuff you'd expect.  One “popular” book that highlights some of this more inclusive, non-literal approach is Belonging to the Universe, by Fritjof Capra and Brother David Steindl-Rast (a Benedictine monk).

You might also be interested in this essay on 'sacred secularism,' by a Catholic priest, Raimon Panikkar:  Rethinking Secularism with Raimon Panikkar.  (Panikkar, while a practicing priest, says he considers himself equal parts Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, and atheist/secularist!).

Re: Infinity Monastery?

Also, what do you think about Thomas Keating's Snowmass Monastery? Given Keating's involvement in the ISC, perhaps it is more openminded to new (read: non-Amber) ideas than other monasteries?

I mean, just look at this video.

Re: Infinity Monastery?

If anyone's interested, here's more from the Infinity Monastery thread on the other forum:

Diebert van Rhijn: “What are the pitfalls here in your opinion?”

The pitfalls of cenobitic monasticism as I see it is that in order to keep the community tight and organized there needs to be a very clear cut “rule”, “ideology”, “goal” which all memebers of the community follow. And, it is very easy that this rule or ideology becomes dogmatic and against challange and change, as we have seen with Catholic monastaries. (Indeed, this is the reason I have started this thread.) If there is no rule whatsoever - (1) the community spins out of control and individual autonomy will create disorder within the community. If the rule is too strict and dogmatic - (2) the community becomes like a herd of mindless sheep, which will create a pathological community forced into decay due to the pressure of external change and development. So there needs to be a balance, a middle way between communion and autonomy. The question becomes how to instill this balance, especially, as Carl G says: “Geniuses [see here for what he means by Genius] are highly independent, it would like trying to herd mosquitoes into a tin can.”

My answer to issue nr (1) is to learn from the traditional monastic community. If there was one thing the mythic (theist) membership religions were successful in creating, then it was law and order. So there needs to be laws within the community so as to keep people from rioting and creating chaos in the monastery. For example, if a monk does not turn up at prayer, or refuses to do what the Abbot wishes, he will risk being asked to leave the monastery, and so forth. Since the first and foremost goal of the Infinity Monastery is to create a setting where the monks can surrender their separate self sense in order to achieve divine union, then having philosophical ego's run completely amok in whatever ways they please will not prove fruitful to the monastery's general spiritual purpose.

Concerning issue nr (2): the “rule”, “direction”, “common ground” we set up must be one which celebrates change, uncertainty, truth independent of human wish-thinking, and fresh and challanging ideas. I think here we can learn from science. My view is that the “rule” would be designed with the cornerstone of consequences as a device or tool for ascertaining relative or dualistic truth. For example, if you believe that it is possible to walk on water - then you would have an uncomfortable consequence on your hands, because you can't prove it. Therefore, in the monastery, if you can't prove your assertion - if the uncomfortable consequences for holding a perticular view are too many or too great - then it will be decided that this view can't be endorsed by the rule of the monastery, as it is incoherent.

With this basic rule, dogma can not take root. Because the idea of a questioning mentality is built into the very fabric of the monastic rule. This basic rule also conforms with the underlying spiritual wisdom of all traditions - all clinging = suffering and rejection of God. When we follow a consequence-based rule, clinging on to positions is rendered impossible. Because if you can't prove your claim through reason, logic or empirical evidence - the uncomfortable consequences will cause suffering and force you to open your mind to a deeper seeing of what Reality is.

Dan Rowden: “…but an organised philosophical community strikes me as close to a contradiction in terms. I also think it's fairly redundant. What would such a community do that isn't being done here?”

Good question. This monastic community is not first and foremost a place for philosophical confabulation, but rather it is a place where human beings come to focus all their attention on God. That is, monks give up the dream life (“I need to get a job, a partner, kids, and do this, and this, and this…”) in order to awaken to the reality of existence. Of course, this is not to say that one can not awaken within the context of a secular life, so, this is simply another way of approaching the gift of life which we have recieved. A way in which all our energy is devoted less to mental stories and more into life itself; that non-dual infinite mystery that is God.

So do you, for example, in your heart experience that it would not be a strange thing to just sit outside in the rain for two hours as the morning sun dawns, as an impersonal expression of life itself? Then becoming an Infinity Monk might be something for you; it is about giving yourself to completely God, in every area of life. If you instead find yourself wanting to spend those hours doing something else, something more personally engaging and constructive, then a monastic way probably isn't suitable for your perticular lifestyle. (And that is not at all saying that you are more or less spiritual than anybody else.) It is just about where our priorities lie, I think.

Carl G: “I'd be for such an idea as long as I were made boss.”

Heh, well, that attitude is exactly what a potential monk is considering giving up, reflecting on joining a monastic community. Are you willing to give up even the idea of possessing a genius-mind; to enter into the blinding light of selflessness? To realize conventional reality as conventional reality? Not many of us are willing to face the naked freefall that is the actuality of life.

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Is, here's an idea.