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Integral Archipelago

Welcome to the Integral Archipelago!
 
We named it the Integral Archipelago because we love discussing and enacting integral theory and integral spirituality, particularly as taught by Ken Wilber. 
 
We require a visa for entry as we have found that people who do not like integral ideas will not be happy here. Please contact one of the moderators if you...(more)
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Tom : oceanslug
Tom posted a reply to the conversation "Anne Klein on Emptiness, The Unconditioned, and Postmodernism" ()
Balder : Kosmonaut
Balder posted a reply to the conversation "Anne Klein on Emptiness, The Unconditioned, and Postmodernism" ()
Tom : oceanslug
Tom posted a reply to the conversation "Anne Klein on Emptiness, The Unconditioned, and Postmodernism" ()
Balder : Kosmonaut
Balder posted a reply to the conversation "Anne Klein on Emptiness, The Unconditioned, and Postmodernism" ()
Tom : oceanslug
Tom posted a reply to the conversation "Anne Klein on Emptiness, The Unconditioned, and Postmodernism" ()
Tom : oceanslug
Tom posted a reply to the conversation "Anne Klein on Emptiness, The Unconditioned, and Postmodernism" ()
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Lisaji : stagemanager at the house of theory
Lisaji Jesus was lost in his love for God. His donkey was drunk with barley. Rumi (1 month ago)
David : ~
David Woe to you, godless ones, who have no hope, who rely on things that will not happen! Woe to you within the fire that burns in you, for it is insatiable! Woe to you, because of the wheel that turns in your minds! Your mind is deranged on account of the burning that is within you . . . (1 month ago)
David : ~
David The darkness rose for you like the light because you surrendered your freedom for servitude! You darkened your hearts and surrendered your thoughts to folly, and you filled your thoughts with the smoke of the fire that is in you. Woe to you who dwell in error, heedless that the light of the sun which judges and looks down upon the all will circle around all things so as to enslave the enemies. You do not even notice the moon, how by day and night it looks down, looking at the bodies of your slaughters! [Jes (1 month ago)
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  David : ~

"Tubwayhun layleyn dadkeyn b'lebhon d'hinnon nehzun alaha"

David said Nov 5, 9:36 PM:
 
Jesus taught mostly in Aramaic… . In Aramaic, sayings that have been translated “definitely” in Greek, Latin, or English reveal multiple richness of meaning, all of which would have been accessible to his audience… .

To take just one example from the Peshitta version of the Gospels of one of the Beatitudes: “Tubwayhun layleyn dadkeyn b'lebhon d'hinnon nehzun alaha” is translated in the King James version as “Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.” As Neil Douglass-Klotz points out in his Prayers of the Cosmos, this beatitude can also simultaneously mean “Blessed are the consistent in heart; they shall contemplate the One”: “Healthy are those whose passion is electrified by deep, abiding purpose; they shall regard the power that moves and shows itself in all things”; “Aligned with the One are those whose lives radiate from the core of love; they shall see love everywhere”; “Healed are those who have the courage and audacity to feel abundant inside; they shall envision the furthest extent of life's wealth”; and “Resisting corruption are those whose natural reaction is sympathy and friendship; they shall be illuminated by a flash of lightning; the source of the soul's movement in all creatures.”  

Andrew Harvey, Son of Man, pp. 56-7  
  Nicole : wakingdreamer

Re: "Tubwayhun layleyn dadkeyn b'lebhon d'hinnon nehzun alaha"

Nicole said Nov 6, 9:08 AM:
 

These things may well be true, David. But it is also possible that it is intended in the plain sense, which would have been familiar to his hearers as referencing the book of Psalms:

Psalm 24

Of David. A Psalm.

1The earth is the Lord’s and all that is in it,
   the world, and those who live in it; 
2for he has founded it on the seas,
   and established it on the rivers. 

3Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord?
   And who shall stand in his holy place? 
4Those who have clean hands and pure hearts,
   who do not lift up their souls to what is false,
   and do not swear deceitfully. 
5They will receive blessing from the Lord,
   and vindication from the God of their salvation. 
6Such is the company of those who seek him,
   who seek the face of the God of Jacob.*
          Selah 
  Lisaji : stagemanager at the house of theory

Re: "Tubwayhun layleyn dadkeyn b'lebhon d'hinnon nehzun alaha"

Lisaji said Nov 6, 10:34 AM:
 

I love Andrew Harvey's take, translations and commentary, - going for the multiple richness of meanings is very nice and most useful to contemplate and generally dig in our present times. Thanks for posting that David.

I would like you to explain that more to me, Nicole if you would. It's interesting…

Much appreciated,
Lisa
  David : ~

Re: "Tubwayhun layleyn dadkeyn b'lebhon d'hinnon nehzun alaha"

David said Nov 6, 11:32 PM:
 

Hi, Nicole. Yes, I think it's possible that he did mean it in that sense or mostly in that sense, but we also have to consider it that those psalms appear to us also in translation. Here is Stephen Mitchell's translation of that psalm:

Who is fit to hold power
and worthy to act in God’s place?


Those with a passion for the truth,
who are horrified by injustice,
who act with mercy to the poor
and take up the cause of the helpless,
who have let go of selfish concerns
and see the whole earth as sacred,
refusing to exploit her creatures
or to foul her waters and lands.


Their strength is in their compassion;
God’s light shines through their hearts.
Their children’s children will bless them,
and the work of their hands will endure. [1]



Here is the King James version of Psalm 93:

The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. 

Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting. 

The floods have lifted up, O LORD, the floods have lifted up their voice; the floods lift up their waves. 

The LORD on high is mightier than the noise of many waters, yea, than the mighty waves of the sea.
 
Thy testimonies are very sure: holiness becometh thine house, O LORD, for ever. [2a]


And here is Stephen Mitchell's translation of Psalm 93:

God acts within every moment
and creates the world with each breath.
He speaks from the center of the universe,
in the silence beyond all thought.
Mightier than the crash of a thunderstorm,
mightier than the roar of the sea
is God's voice silently speaking
in the depths of the listening heart. [2b]


With regard to the original quotation, I wonder if the context and various intonations and inflections would have steered Jesus' listeners to particular interpretations.

Lisa, I'm glad you like it. Yes, Andrew Harvey does pick out some very interesting things and discuss them in a beautiful way.