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I wanted to share this conversation with a person I haven't met about gardening and am here to answer any questions you may have about organic gardening:
John: I live in central California, San Joaquin Valley. I love cauliflowers. is it possible to grow them at this time?
Lee: I wouldn't bother until about the middle or end of September. You might start the seeds 2-3 weeks ahead of time, and I think if you put them in the ground about then, you should be fine. Your BT will be important then, too.
John: Today I went outside to check on my container tomatoes. i noticed one of my beefsteak tomaoto plant had purple roots, on all of the leaves. is this some sort of disease?
Lee: Did I read that right–purple roots on the leaves? I don't know how well beefsteaks would do in containers. Their roots spread out over a large area, several feet near the surface, and the tap roots may go down as much as 8 ft. Can you tell me more about what the leaves look like? Or if possible, e-mail a picture?
John: Sorry about that. I meant purple veins under the leaves. I have a few tomatoes growing on it I'm not sure they'll get any bigger.
Lee: Ah, I see. I don't have a clue what that might be. Have they always been there? It could just be too much of some mineral in the soil. That would be my first guess. I wouldn't worry about it unless the plants start looking bad. Sometimes little green tomatoes stay little and green for a long time, then suddenly grow and ripen. If the weather is cool, it seems like they sit there for weeks. I wouldn't worry about that either at this point.
John: Thank you Lee for pointing out the BT. [bacillis theringensis] i just bought some from OSH (orchard hardware) and it works great.
I have one more question. Do you know of any vegetable plant that does well in clay soil?
Lee: All that does well in clay, that I know of, is weeds. And even they have a hard time. There are a lot of minerals in clay, so I've tried to incorporate some of it with my really good top soil. A certain amount is very beneficial. The particles are just too fine, so it compacts and stays too wet; and it stays cold partly because there's no organic matter for bacteria, etc., to help warm it up as it's digested. I didn't try to remove any. My soil is solid clay, so I built all my beds right on top of it, filled them to the 2 ft. above the ground, and it's worked very well.
John: I am going to fertilize my plants today and I wanted to make sure I bought the right fertilizer. I have on my mind, the Espoma Garden Tone. It is organic.
Lee: I just looked up that fertilizer, and it looks like good stuff.
If you can lots of organic matter along with it, that would be great.
Have fun!
John: Organic matter such as compost?
Lee: Sure, that would be ideal. If you can't get it, you could dig in lawn trimmings, alfalfa hay, etc. It will break down over the growing period. I wouldn't try to dig in too much “green” stuff if you're going to plant right away. If it's going to be a couple of months, there's no limit, as long as you turn the soil over every few days. Lots of air will help it break down much more quickly.
John: My compost is almost ready, ill be using it in a few days. Another thing Lee, you use bone meal, alfalfa, fish meal, and kelp meal, if im not wrong. Now alfalfa is for nitrogen, can I use dried blood for nitrogen? Also what are the fish meal, kelp meal, and bone meal for?
Lee: This year, for the first time, fish meal has been taken from the approved Organic list. The reason is that the gas they use to deodorize the fish meal has been banned for organic use. I now use blood meal instead of fish meal. It's higher in nitrogen, but lacks some other nutrients that fish meal would have. The alfalfa is good for nitrogen, but I use it because it's also very rich in vitamins and minerals. The earthworms are drawn to alfalfa dug into the soil more than any other composting material I know of. Kelp meal contains over 70 trace minerals, vital to the health of plants, but generally depleted from our soils. It's also rich in potassium natural growth hormones. Bone meal is high in calcium and phosporous.
Don't exceed the recommended amounts, and on alfalfa, if you use alfalfa meal, it composts very quickly. I killed some tomato plants the first time I used it. I put down 2 lbs. per square foot, dug it in, planted tomatoes a day or two later–next day they were all flat on the ground. Dug down to see what the problem was-burned my hands! If you use it in the fall, no problem, but I wouldn't use more than about 1/2 lb. per square foot if you intend to plant soon afterward. Half pound is safe, per sq. ft. (I turned the soil over every day to cool it off, kept it moist, and within a week the meal was well enough composted that the soil was cool enough to re-plant. Had a great tomato crop after all.)
John: Where do you buy your kelp meal from. Another question I have, is it possible to grow alfalfa in the garden, as a cover crop. If so where can i buy seeds from.
Lee: Sure—kelp meal and alfalfa seed can both be had from http://www.groworganic.com. And yes, absolutely you can grow alfalfa as a cover crop. Ideally, you'd chop it up just as it starts to blossom and dig it right into the soil, just like you'd do any of the legumes. Good to hear from you!
John: Very nice site, I never came by it before. Would any cover crop act the same as alfalfa. I know alfalfa is very good, but would anything other than alfalfa work well.
Lee: Yes, I always get what I think they call “turf builder,” which is a mix of several kinds of beans and peas. It may be under another name now, as they change it from time to time. If you haven't planted legumes before, your soil may be deficient in the bacteria that fix nitrogen on the roots. Peaceful Valley (groworganic) also sells that, called an “inocculant.” I used it a few times many years ago, and now I get so much nitrogen on the legume roots that I don't think I need to use it anymore. I buy alfalfa hay from a Feed and Grain store-either alfalfa meal, when they have it, or the hay in 100 lb. bales.
John: I might be buying the soil builder mix, this is my first time growing a cover crop. Do I need the innoculant, would the crop make nitrogen without the innoculant.
Lee: Sure, the green plant matter will give you plenty of nitrogen, and when it breaks down enough for the worms to be able to eat, their castings (manure) will be 5 times richer in nitrogen than the matter they ate. All that takes time-many months. The nodules of nitrogen that the Inocculant (bacteria) will form on the roots of the legumes, are plant ready nitrogen. Your plants can use it immediately. If the legumes don't use that nitrogen when they start making seeds–which is why you chop the green legumes while or just as they start to bloom, you'll get the most benefit. Those bacteria, the Inocculant, are in every soil, but may not be in much quantity in any given soil. I'd recommend that you buy it if this is the first time you've grown legumes. In my experience, once those bacteria are well established in your beds, you'll no longer need to add them. My roots are so well covered with the nitrogen nodules that I just don't think there would be room for more. I think I used the inocculant the first 2 years only, and may not have had any additional benefit after the first year.
John: What would you prefer for a cover crop that grows fast. because I want to grow a cool season cover crop in September, and I want to grow my winter season crop, such as cauliflower, etc…
Lee: Where do you live? So. CA?
John: Central California. San Joaquine County.
Lee: I think all the legumes grow pretty equally as fast. I've never noticed any real difference, other than Berseem clover, which I thought was very slow. Too, you needn't wait for the legumes to reach maturity in order to get great benefits. I sometimes dig them under when they're only about a ft. high. If I'm going to want to plant, I want the legumes dug under about 2 weeks before planting. I chop them, dig them under, and turn them over again about a week later. I keep the soil fairly moist-not saturated. To really speed things up, I'll cover the bed with 6 ml plastic sheeting.
John: Is there a cover crop that I can sow late summer, and dig under in fall or late fall.
Lee: Oh sure, any of them you like. I plant them anytime at all. They'll grow more slowly in the cooler weather with shorter days, but they'll grow just fine.
John: Aha. so you do not have to wait them to reach maturity?, also do cauliflowers, cabbage, broccoli, onions, carrots, lettuce, and other cool season vegetables grow in winter. for example in Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb.? or do they get ready for harvest in Oct or Nov.
Lee: Nah, I'll plant legumes any time at all, and often dig them under when they're even only 6-10 inches high. Ideally of course, I'd let them start to blossom, but if I'll want to plant in two weeks, I dig them under no matter how small they are.
I grow Black Seeded Simpson lettuce (1/4 lb. of seed from Peaceful Valley, will last me over a year–very cheap, at about $10–the little packets would cost about $200 for the same amount of seed) all year round, carrots, beets and turnips do better in the spring, but you could plant them most any time. I've just started my broccoli and cauliflower seeds. I'll transplant them into the bed around mid-Aug., but I'll probably plant more around Feb-Mar. Those I've just started should be ready about mid to late Oct. I'll start my Walla Walla onion seeds around mid-Oct., and plant them in the beds around the 1st of Dec. They'll then be ready around mid-June.
Your weather will be a little hotter now, but it will also be colder in the cooler months. You might need to make some adjustments for your local climate. Also, you might go on the CA Dept. of Agriculture web-site to see if you can find suggested planting times for your area. I often check other states for people from all over the US, but I've not checked CA to see if they have the same kind of data and tables. I'm sure they do, but if you have any trouble, just let me know. Have fun!
John: Instead of the legumes producing nitrogen for the soil, would it be possible to use Dried Blood, since its very high in nitrogen.
Lee: No, use dried blood in addition to the legumes. Their only purpose isn't nitrogen. The plant matter contains all kinds of vitamins, minerals, and generally build up the soil. You want to work toward developing rich, well balanced soil.
John: I am removing some sod from the lawn to make a vegetable garden. The soil is clay and very little sand. What do you think would be the best way to fertilize that garden?
Lee: Not much, unless you somehow raise it a bit, as in raised beds, by at least 12”. You'll need to add a lot of organic matter and/or compost, or sheet compost the organic matter. Sheet composting simply means spreading the vegetable matter evenly over the surface and digging it under.
I'd somehow build a 12” frame-wood, concrete blocks, rocks, almost anything, and then dig in lawn trimmings, the sod you just took up, at least 2 lbs. of alfalfa hay or alfalfa meal per square foot of surface area, dead leaves, and whatever else you can find. I'd add to that blood meal, bone meal and kelp meal and mix it all in as well as I could with a digging fork, with 6” of the clay beneath it. I'd saturate it, and then I'd cover it all tightly with a sheet of 6 ml clear plastic sheeting and seal the edges. I'd let it all stew for 2 weeks, uncover it, add more alfalfa whatever additional green matter I had accumulated, and and turn it all over again, mixing it again as well as I could.
I'd saturate it again, cover it again, seal the edges, and keep repeating that process until I was satisfied.
John: Thanks so much!
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