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Postmetaphysical Theologytheurj said Mar 18, 1:10 PM: |
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As the myth and magic thread is getting unwieldy I decided to start a new but related thread. I will introduce it with an excerpt from Thomas Carlson taking about Jean-Luc Marion because Carlson considers this theology to be both postmetaphysical and as a return of sorts to the magico-mythical writings of Dionysius the Areopagite. He also makes the distinctions made in the previous thread, in that the sacred must use a different language, a different methodology than that of the logos. The logos can only give us the idol whereas the mythos gives us the icon. |
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Re: Postmetaphysical Theologytheurj said Mar 19, 8:43 PM: |
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Carlson continues: |
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Re: Postmetaphysical Theologytheurj said Mar 19, 8:56 PM: |
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Derrida's critique is how I was responding to the first quoted excerpt. Marion seems to avoid one aspect of metaphysics, i.e., a Cartesian dualism of opposites in language. But he does so by positing a direct apprehension of God through a methodology of praise and liturgy. This is similar, if not identical (homeomorphic equivalence?), to Gorampa's direct nondual realization (unitary fusion) beyond language. Both, however, are guilty of another aspect of the myth of the given, that of a supposed infinite that “exceeds that of all finite beings.” |
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Re: Postmetaphysical Theologytheurj said Mar 20, 8:38 AM: |
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Compare this to how Merleau-Ponty used the term “hyper” in his hyper-dialectic and hyper-reflection. It is reminiscent of a previous discussion on the difference between formal and postformal dialectics. From the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry on him: |
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Re: Postmetaphysical Theologytheurj said Mar 20, 12:05 PM: |
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Much like the two truths debate between Gorampa and Tsongkhapa, we see a similar trend in Marion/Dionysius v Derrida/Merleau-Ponty.* Like G Marion sees language itself as the problem, along with conceptualiazation, and to get past their duality one must fuse with an ultimate “beyond” understanding. However, like T D&M see concept-language-reflection as being of the same kind as bodily perception, all the way up and down, and this “split” of presence/absence is there from the beginning. With that as a starting point even so-called base, animal, “direct” perception is not “pure immedicay” but partakes of the ambiguous uncertainlty that grounds us in the conditional. In other words, emptiness is empty and dependently arisen, like everything else. |
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Re: Postmetaphysical Theologykelamuni said Mar 20, 4:19 PM: |
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Good. Now we're down to brass tacks. My take on Ken, when he says that “Nagarjuna has the last word on ontology,” is that he is basically invoking a “mystical” interpretation of the Madhyamika ala something like recent attempts to reconstitute the mystical theology of the Areopagite and juxtipose it with “deconstruction,” or “postmodernism,” or whatever. This begs the question, though, of whether that is the only interpretation of Nagarjuna that is possible. David Loy has written a paper in which he juxtiposes Madhyamika and deconstruction: “The Cloture of Deconstruction.” There is also a volume edited by Harold Coward on Derrida and negative theology. In any case, some sort of showdown between Derrida (or Derrida and Merleau Ponty) and some sort of interpretation of mystical theology appears to be have been inevitable, Caputo notwithstanding. |
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