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Aestheticized Buddhismtheurj said Apr 16, 4:48 AM: |
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Insomnia again led me to seek out and find an unexpected jewel in the internether. This excerpt contains so many of the themes we’ve explored as to be uncanny, even a metaphysical message directly from Buddha in the astral plane. Yes, I’m still half-asleep and delirious, but check this out. Despite the free Google book preview that stopped at a key point that I’m just dying to know how it finishes. Guess I’ll have to buy the book. But Google knew that, insidious bastards. From Buddhist Theology by John J. Makransky and Roger Jackson (Routledge,2000): |
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Re: Aestheticized Buddhismmarigpa said Apr 16, 6:48 AM: |
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Hi theurj, |
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Re: Aestheticized BuddhismBalder said Apr 16, 7:26 AM: |
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Hi, Edward, this is an excellent find. I'm interested in reading it too. (I just checked the JFK library, but they don't have it.) |
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Re: Aestheticized BuddhismJim said Apr 16, 10:32 AM: |
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Yes, this is a good find. |
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Re: Aestheticized BuddhismBalder said Apr 16, 11:55 AM: |
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Jim, that's a good point. I'm curious to see where Jackson goes with his discussion of the “third factor.” I would hope he avoids the problem you are highlighting, but we'll have to see… |
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Re: Aestheticized Buddhismtheurj said Apr 16, 12:00 PM: |
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I just checked amazon.com and the book is $55 new and about $47 used! So much for that purchase. I did the next best thing and emailed Dr. Jackson, the author of that chapter, to see if it was online somewhere. He said it wasn't but that he'd scan and send it to me in the next few days. When I get it I'll let y'all know and you can email me for a copy. |
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Re: Aestheticized BuddhismJim said Apr 16, 1:44 PM: |
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Hi Edward, |
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Re: Aestheticized Buddhismtheurj said Apr 16, 2:37 PM: |
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True, it probably depends more on one's preferences and prejudices. And it would seem those for Jackson are to keep the traditional forms. And of course his prejudice might come across as promoting his version as advantageous to the “simply” demythologized version. We all subtly make such judgments about our preferences. |
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Re: Aestheticized Buddhismtheurj said Apr 28, 12:44 PM: |
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Dr. Jackson emailed me the article, so if you want a copy email me at Gaia with your non-Gaia email address. |
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Re: Aestheticized BuddhismJim said Apr 28, 5:09 PM: |
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I think Dr. Jackson hits the nail on the head here: |
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Re: Aestheticized Buddhismtheurj said Apr 28, 9:14 PM: |
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Jim, would you like a copy of the complete article? It might answer your questions. I've yet to read it all myself so cannot speculate on how he might answer, or how I'd interpret his response. I will post more when I've read it. |
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Re: Aestheticized Buddhismtheurj said Apr 28, 10:43 PM: |
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In the section following the last excerpt Jackson shows how different the various Buddhist schools were on even the most fundamental Buddhist concept, that of the middle. It exemplifies all over again the two truths debate, but there was not just Gorampa and Tsongkhapa but a plethora of views on what constituted the middle. Hence the various Buddhist schools were relative to each other and to particular times and circumstances, and this relativism is inescapable, something that pomo has come to accept. Hence each view is itself empty of a “true” essence and dependently originated. One view is only more relatively adequate to one's particular context and never more ultimately true. |
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Re: Aestheticized Buddhismkelamuni said Apr 29, 8:50 AM: |
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Hmmm. What happens to the distinction between “truly transformative” practices (like the yogic meditations of Tantra) and “merely translative” practices (like the analytic contemplation of Madhyamika)? |
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Re: Aestheticized Buddhismtheurj said Apr 29, 10:48 AM: |
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Ah yes, there is a progression to all this relativism after all. Jackson says: |
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Re: Aestheticized Buddhismkelamuni said Apr 29, 11:20 AM: |
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I, personally, think that the “three turnings” structure is simply another lense for organizing history, that the latter turnings are “more adequate” only from the point of view of the latter turnings. The notion of “progress” here is relative. From the Madhyamika point of view, the latter turnings are regressions. |
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Re: Aestheticized Buddhismtheurj said Apr 29, 7:32 PM: |
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I'd agree that the way tantra interprets the turnings is a way to serve its own meditative agenda. I'd also agree that it is a regression from the highly rational-analytic Madhyamikan deconstructive methodology. Yet tantra is also progressive in its regression, though not in the way it intends; it is progressive more along the lines I've been discussing in numerous threads, i.e., in going back to pre-rational, non-conceptual levels of being and integrating them within a rational framework. However the traditional rational framework is still pre-modern in many ways, still highly mixed with mythology. Hence there is still confusion on what the non-conceptual states mean, and even Jackson criticizes Buddhism for such interpretations. But the 4th turning of pomo, which aesthetizes the tradition, reinterprets such state-stages within our current culture and frame sans the ultimate certainties. |
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Re: Aestheticized Buddhismkelamuni said Apr 30, 10:42 AM: |
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i'll have to read the article. i'll send my email address. interesting stuff, though. |
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Re: Aestheticized BuddhismJim said Apr 29, 9:05 AM: |
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Thanks for offering to send the article; I just emailed you my non-Gaia email address so you can send me a copy. |
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