The God Particle?

I posted this question on yahoo answers but its not really open to debate there so i thought id try it here.

Do you think science will one day find something resembling consciousness at a subatomic level? A force that has driven life to exist, a ‘desire to be’ , a basic programming if you like that has caused all things to become. Dont get me wrong im talking more god particle evolution than God 6 day creation here.
Ive never been happy with the idea of the universe emerging in a random chaotic fashion, why would sub atomic particles even come together to form atoms, or something as complex as a single celled organism just fall together, nothing would ever happen or ever ‘be’ without a driving force.
Without a consciousness-like drive behind it, a random bunch of amino acids proteins etc etc just wouldnt do anything, it wouldnt desire food or develop eyes or senses because it wouldnt even know there was anything to see or feel.
Equally difficult to believe is that no sooner had it fallen together it would just miraculously fall apart to create an exact copy of itself, then continue in a random chaotic fashion to fall together into something as complex as a human with our amazing consciousness.
This isnt an argument for creation as such but for conscious evolution, guided evolution or maybe rules and programming and laws of physics put into place to allow something amazing to form. Yes it sounds like pantheism, which is sexed up atheism apparently, but science just wont let a divine foot in the door, or even a semi-conscious foot.
My point is; what if science discovers and quantifies what we might now call supernatural after saying for long enough it doesnt exist?
(as a footnote i added this, which is up for discussion here)
my personal theory:
I think that we, as conscious beings who now create all manner of things including virtual worlds etc, i think we created this universe, we progarammed it and maybe guided it along the way, and in much the same way as we will one day have virtual reality games where we can download our consciousness into the game, we came into this universe to experience it. We even choose to forget that we are experiencing/playing the game (after all it would be much more fun that way!) or maybe the limitations of this physical universe make forgetting a pre-requisite of taking form here.
Some may say why would we have such horrible things happen here, but if you imagine waking from a nightmare, it all seems silly and even exhilirating and after waking you see it for what it was, just the same way you may view this world when you die and wake up from this experience/game, besides for the majority of people itspretty good here most of the time!!.
Death and decay are just part of a universe based on rules of entropy, renewal, making room for new lifeforms, experiences, civilisations, an ever-changing universe, expanding, changing, growing.
Who knows, maybe there are millions of other universes based on totally different laws that we cant even comprehend while we are here but that we can experience after this one. Lets face it, we have eternity, or maybe we exist outwith time and space.
I know lots of religious people wont like this idea so im open to how anyones beliefs etc dont fit in with this theory so i can resolve the idea in my own mind.
Its also probably all been thought of before but Ill post later why i came to this conclusion, the personal experiences that have led to it etc…..
………..ive modified this a bit so its more open for discussion, ill check back later for feedback etc, if you think it should be in another thread etc please advise, hi nicole, im sure you will be popping in to say hellooooo………:))

Re: The God Particle?

Hi there,


You know me so well, here I am. :) Long time no see. 


Excellent conversation starter and I hope we hear from lots of other people. So much great food for thought here …


Who knows, maybe there are millions of other universes based on totally different laws that we cant even comprehend while we are here but that we can experience after this one. Lets face it, we have eternity, or maybe we exist outwith time and space. 



Who knows, indeed? Very intriguing possibility. 


Looking forward to hearing later why you came to this conclusion, etc :)


Peace,


Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Theoretical physics has already come close to discovering the nature of the universe with string theory but they haven’t proven it yet.  As to your assertion that

“i think we created this universe, we progaramed it and maybe guided it along the way,”

This is quite true but on a personal level.  The opening lines of the Dhamapada say it best

Re: The God Particle?

You Know i thought about it and you know how u siad GOD would not approve of my behavour well he defently would not approve of the group people and u cause u guys are saying he is not real, and a another thing if you non-beleivers and athesists say your opions and beleifs a christian can to and i can speak my opions and belifs like u all do so u and your fellow mates are just as wrong so do not go tell me im wrong when u and your fellow mates cant admit u guys are wrong, and also nicole if u do not beleive in him why use bible veres? 

Re: The God Particle?

I have no issue with you speaking your opinions and beliefs, in fact I welcome them, if you can do so without attacking others or name-calling. You are most welcome to speak up here. It is an open forum.

Re: The God Particle?

I have to admit that i should have not siad the hell thing but everything else is true, GOD is the only one that decides where we go so i should have not siad that but u know i am going to follow GOD so i do not have to argue with u cause the bible says not to argue with people like u so this is goodbye and have a good life, and i hope u all find the truth and nicole i was not attacking u or the people in this group i was speaking the truth and fact about GOD and my opoin

Re: The God Particle?

and also nicole wat i meant is if u do not beleive in him why use his word, against people when u do not even  care about him or his word how do u know his wordif u are a non beleiver?

Re: The God Particle?

Why do you think I am a non believer or I do not care about God, just because my belief is not exactly what yours is?

I have written much in this group about my beliefs, if you care to take the time, you may read for yourself what is in my heart. 

Re: The God Particle?

Then exactly what is yur beleif when u talk and associate with people that say things about God, what type of religion does that?

Re: The God Particle?

Ask yourself, with whom did Jesus associate? The religious people, or the prostitutes, tax collectors, fishermen, labourers… in short, everyone else but.

Love to you,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

U know a good christian would stop fighting with u and i guess to u a good christian is just shutting there mouth and setting aside and listening to you all talk about God like he is not real i guess that is why i got irratated about you all Saying he is not real when he is i do not have to prove it to u guys that he is so i am no longer gonna talk to u nicole goodbye GOD Rocks This World!

Re: The God Particle?

Goodbye, then. All the best,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

There is no outwith time or space there is either u will go to heaven or hell do not take this wrong im only bibicalness.

There is none before me and there is none after me i am Alpha and Omega, The First and The Last. Revalations Chapter 1

Re: The God Particle?

Its me TallTower I know i siad i was not coming back but I spoke with my mom and she siad just to make sure that the group knew i had siad i was sorry and since nicole siad she didnt have a problem with me talking with u all as long as i was nice. Iv thought about it and I do want to be apart of the group so with that im going to stick to bibical scriptures, therefore at judgement GOD can say I did the right thing by using bibical scriptures and letting u know the truth.

IN THE BEGINNING GOD ceated the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

So GOD created man in his OWN image, in the image of GOD created he him; male and female created he them.  Psalms 1:27

And GOD created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and GOD saw that it was good.  Psalms 1:21

Re: The God Particle?

Your mom gives good advice.

Thanks for sharing the verses from the beginning of the Bible. To me, the universe shows God's amazing creativity. So much diversity and wonder.

Blessings,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Scientists have discovered so much, and yet.. they are only scratching the surface!

I was reading a book called “Thresholds of the Mind” by Bill Harris, it comes with his Holosync meditation CD’s, here’s a part talking about seeking spiritual experiences..

“Recent research suggests that there is a built-in human yearning for what scientists now call “unitary experience,” and that this yearning has been a primary driving force in human evolution. This experience may even be the motivation behind many entirely secular and non-spiritual human activities.
According to research done at the university of Pennsylvania Medical School, the search for spiritual or unitary experiences is intimately interwoven with human biology, hard wired into our brains. In their book, Why God Won’t Go Away, researchers Andrew Newberg MD and Eugene D’Aquili, MD., Ph.D., describe the brain activity of meditating Buddhist monks and praying Franciscan nuns, at the exact moment of such unitary experiences. Using high tech imaging …. discovered that intensely focused spiritual contemplation (ie., meditation or prayer) creates changes in brain activity, that lead to tangible yet ineffable experiences of oneness and connectedness with the rest of the universe. What Buddhists call “onesness with the universe,” and Franciscan nuns call “being in the presence of God,” are not the result of delusory or wishful thinking, but rather the result of a sequence of clear, discrete, observable, and recordable neurophysiological events. ”

I like Bill Harris because he does research into science etc but he’s also very spiritual.

Re: The God Particle?

belinda, that’s some fascinating research, isn’t it? I have enjoyed following these types of studies.


ricosoma,


“Every person is a new door to a different world.”



Apparently that’s a quote from the movie Six degrees of Separation, have you seen it? 


Now, where is that G’kar? He promised to return to share more :)


Love,


Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Yes, Nicole, I have seen “Six degrees of separation” but it was a while ago.  I’ve forgotten most of it except that I really enjoyed Wil Smith’s performance (as usual).
Maybe I’ll rent it again.
 

Re: The God Particle?

G’kar,
Does this sound somewhat like what you are talking about?
The brain itself is divided into regions, and within the regions they are divided into subsets. Some subsets interact among themselves more than others, and these are called functional clusters. The brain is designed to have various circuits, of which contemporary brain researchers have identified three, which they call convergent, divergent, and reverberating circuits. A functional cluster can have a divergent circuit that conducts neural activity to outlying regions of the brain or CNS. Sensory information (e.g., sounds, symbols, and images) can be produced that stimulates the temporal formation of just such a functional cluster within the thalamocortical system that catalyzes a pre-designated shift in consciousness.
Whether you can equate this shift in consciousness as inducing an increase in fluid intelligence is dependent on other factors. This is not a singular dynamic core, but rather an integral part of a larger dynamic system that connects the individual not only to their human-soul consciousness, but that also of the Genetic Mind.
There is within the thalamocortical system what scientists refer to as the reticular thalamic nucleus (nRt). It’s widely accepted by neuroscience that nRt plays a vital role in the judicious regulation of the flow of neural information between the thalamus and cortex. What is not understood is how specific sensory information (light frequencies, sound frequencies, rhythmic synchronization, ULF, symbolic images) can influence how the ILN and nRt systems interoperate to form a hybrid functional cluster that enhances fluid intelligence and accessibility to the Genetic Mind. This discovery is yet twenty years in the making, but it will occur.

Re: The God Particle?

Opening, do you have a link handy for this article? Do you know what is meant by the Genetic Mind?


Thanks,


Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

http://wingmakers.com/jamesqa.html

Re: The God Particle?

This is a neat thread.  Sometimes I can be a little dense in my understanding of what folks are saying, for I have a crazy form of dyslexia…in other words, I’m dense.  Anyhow, regarding consciousness, Heisenberg states that an atom is a wave and a particle simultaneiously and that what makes it a particle is it’s being observed.  Furthermore, two particles can be light years away and appear synchronized to the point that when one particle changes the other changes immediately.  In other words, the particles may not be two but one, or more appropriately, more than one and since the change is immediate, the signals between the photons are traveling faster than the speed of light.  Which is absurd.  Now to me the answer to the latter is easy. 
 
 
 
There is a place deep within us where we enter into infinity and infinity is a place where time and space cease.  Infinity cannot exist side-by-side with herself.  In Scriptures (Rig Veda, Bible, Tao te Ching, etc.) this place is defined as the beginning but our mistake as rational humans is to take this to mean a point in time where as it’s actually saying here and now.  So when God erupts with His infamous “Let there be Light” out of the womb of Tehom (the Deep), this writing came to be as well as your reading it.  That’s right, what I’m saying is that in Infinity you and I are closer to each other than our nose is to our face.  In INfinity there is no distance and hence no time.  This is how the two photons are synchronized and which would also account for Jung’s notion of synchronicity. 
 
 
 
Furthermore, as Heisnberg’s theories postualte, a particle behaves like a wave until it is observed, at which time the wave acts like a particle.  So, this screen and these words are waves with information which your eyes absorb and your brain then conceives an image.  Mathematician Fourier states that the brain does this through a form of calculus which has been named Fourier transforms.  Know, I’m completely ignorant of Calculus yet my brain is performing it as I type this message?  Wow!  This whole scenero is similar to the words of Christian mystic Meister Eckhart (in the 13th centure) who put it this way, “Does the Soul wish to know the nature of a man, a horse, or a God, She creates an image.”  Now, I have a hard time with the New Age, “I create my own reality”.  But I do believe in a relational view that WE create our own reality and at heart WE are I AM…or pure Being. 
 
 
 
But does this give human beings prime centrality in this universe?  I personally don’t think so.  Indeed, I think it arrogance.  I think, as per the Gaia Hypothesis, that we are in this together, with everybody else.  Humans are more akin to cells of the Earth while the Earth is a living, breathing conscious organism (hence my love for Deep Ecology).   If you attend to any ecological system living outside of man’s ignorance, it works and works quite well.  Unfortunately, in this Dark Age (the Kali Yuga as the Hindus refer to it), man (I mean this literally for I think women have been at the bottom of this equation) is IT.  But to me, man, and all of humanity, are holographic strands in a holographic universe (David Bohm, see karl Pribram for an introduction).  By this I mean that our brain functions as a mirror to how natural systems function both on Earth and in Heaven. 
 
 
 
Anyhow, hope I’m making sense.  Fun conversation.  Thanks.
 
Burl

Re: The God Particle?

Opening, thanks for the link, it really helps to get the context!

Burl, you are far from dense. I always enjoy your posts. As usual you make a number of excellent points here, about us being part of the Earth organism, about holographic strands, quantum reality and infinity and…

All so glorious!

Peace,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

scientists will never be able to find consciousness at any physical level, because it is not a location in physical space but the internal experience of that  same space. God, as pure consciousness, or as source of laws of life, is not at any place, and cannot be discovered with the tools of scientific method - disinterested observation - as an exotic particle or anything else.  

Re: The God Particle?

short, sweet and straight to the point. 

Thanks so much,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Yes, Consciousness can never be found for it is what’s looking.  Can an eye behold its self if not through a mirror?  Perhaps Creation reflects the Uncreated / Infinity and hence the Uncreated beholds its self?  In other words, infinity does not exist side-by-side with its self.  As the Tao Te Ching sings, “The Tao gives birth to 1, 1 gives birth to 2, 2 gives birth to 3, And THEN it is the Mother of the Universe.”  (This is reflected in our letter “A” with 2 lines separating (1 and 2 emerging from a point (0) with a third line bridging the two (relationship)). This is why in the passion of intercourse a couple will often cry out “O’ my God!”  In their loss of self in unity, what is it that they see?  Think of the Star of David.  The downward pointed triangle reflects the “fall” into time and space, into duality, the separation of mother and child…the movement of which is down and out.  The upward poiinted triangle is the return to unity, which is reflected in the upward pointed triangle and the act of intercourse which is upward and inward.  

Prior to differentiation of a human mother and child, there are several states.  A fetus says nothing and calls his mother nothing.  At this stage, there is no differentiation.  Then he emerges and eventually calls his mother Mama, Ma, etc.  But as he gets older and differentiates himself from her he begins to call her by the more formal term of M-Other.  In the depths of Peace, one actually calls Mother nothing at all for in the unborn or unmanifest state there is no THAT to call.  What is the Hindu Maya except the illusion of separation?  Hence, Brahman is said to be beyond any reference.  Take care. Burl

Re: The God Particle?

Burl, the more you share, the more possibilities open up. Thanks for tying in the Tao, and passion, and differentiation… This conversation is just getting more and more interesting!


Peace,


Nicole 

Re: The God Particle?

This is a neat thread!

Burl lol Sometimes I can be a little dense in my understanding of what folks are
saying, for I have a crazy form of dyslexia…in other words, I’m dense.

I read this from you followed by 2 intelligent posts!! I agree with Nicole, yyou ar far from dense. Thanks for sharing, very interesting.

Re: The God Particle?

I am far from dense. You’re right.  Sometimes I feel things more so than intellectually grasp.  So, sometimes I get a bit lost with words.  the words I do use generally comes from gut feelings and pictures.  For example, I understand the physics of David Bohm more by feel than by what is said about his theory and this, in turn, helps me to understand the complex spiritual teachings of Meister Eckhart, who is one of my most beloved.  I’m actually going to start a thread on him.  Hope you visit there.  Take care and thanks.  Burl 

Re: The God Particle?

Nicole,
I am not exactly sure of the much of the intended meaning of the information contained on that website.  Some of the documents are extremely interesting and contain great insights whether or not the premise behind them is true.  As far as there being a God Particle within us, I tend to agree with this though I am not exactly sure how to explain it.  I also don’t think that medical science or any of the basic sciences will find it as the sciences most likely don’t have the proper “methods” or modes of thinking to direct it.  If anything, it will be “stumbled” upon. 
As far as the question as to if it is possible that it is there, I think we have to remember that whatever wonderful thoughts, passions, spritual achievements (if there is such a thing) any of us may claim or identify with, we, human beings, are creatures.  We are fundamentally animals and fundamentally spiritual.  So, it does seem possible that within the animal is a connection to the spiritual.   Seems to me that this is most likely necessary in order for us to be the intellectual beings that we are.  As the animal houses the spiritual, and the spiritual continues on after the death of the physical (I am pretty sure of this), it is logical to assume that they are actually separate, but somehow tied to one another on a level that we don’t even contemplate because we never thought about it in this way before.  This is perhaps where the “God Particle” is housed.  We love our bodies so much, we don’t think about how dispensable they really are.
One thing that my experience has shown me is that there is far more going on on all kinds of levels than most the “books” of all types and all sources have put into words.  For instance, I think our DNA itself is a “God Particle”.  After working for a medical research institute, I know that medical science is totally unsure why things work the way they do.  They may be figuring out how they work with greater success and even imitating the processes, but not why–the true life force that directs actions and reactions.  I am also pretty sure that human evolution is still far from where it is destined to go. 
Over the last few months I have changed in my viewpoint in many ways.  I no longer try to explain things and God and the why of it all.  I take stabs at it knowing that it is most likely I am waaaaay off base.  I have accepted that I don’t know, can’t effectively explain what I do know, and may never have been intended to know so much that would make a really big difference in terms of taking me all that far from where I was when I took my first breath. 

Re: The God Particle?

Burl, hastening to your Meister Eckhart thread, yay!


Opening, it sounds like you are in a very exciting part of your path, enjoying the ride. Awesome!


I like the idea of DNA being a kind of “God Particle”, hmm, got to think about that some more.


Peace to you,


Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

DNA as the God Particle is a rich and suggestive idea, it resonates with me like this: Evolution is the process of Spirit manifesting itself. DNA is the inner mechanism of evolution as it appears in the physical realm, how it appears as physical object and process (Upper Right and Lower Right quadrants, in Wilber-speak). Whether we experience it and interpret it as God or nature depends on our internal psychic ecology. People who read books on metaphysics and follow a spiritual path will feel and understand it as divine immanence, biologists who read science text books and are atheist will see nothing but ‘frisky dirt’. No getting away from the self, and interpretation

Re: The God Particle?

“Over the last few months I have changed in my viewpoint in many ways. 
I no longer try to explain things and God and the why of it all.  I
take stabs at it knowing that it is most likely I am waaaaay off base. 
I have accepted that I don’t know, can’t effectively explain what I do
know, and may never have been intended to know so much that would make
a really big difference in terms of taking me all that far from where I
was when I took my first breath. ”

I am always reading and contemplating and sometimes it gets to a point that I am reading reading reading, thinking thinking thinking and then all of a sudden realise I haven’t been present for a while lol and I remember my mind wants to know the world inside out but it is my mind that is in the way of presence which needs no explanation and no understanding.

Re: The God Particle?

oh, very well said, Goatfish. There is no escape from the subjective, indeed. Wondering though if part of your post was truncated.

belinda, this is so true, mind can be a huge barrier at times,

peace,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Belinda.

Isn’t ‘wanting to know’, the reason why we are here in the first place.  Sure, it’s confusion can get the better of us at times, but I think that there are explanations needed in order to make our steps into this journey of ours, an awakening to a much lesser degree of confusion….a knock on that ol’ noggin of ours shall we say, and a step up to a better insight and meaning as to why our existence here, is necessary.
We are all here, not just to exist, but to connect to the on going path we have chosen to exist, from.
It’s these trying times that should lead us one step closer to the righteous path we come from, with a better understanding and offering to this holy connection of our being.
Food for thought.

“V” and Love,

Rita

Re: The God Particle?

Rita, that’s excellent, 
We are all here, not just to exist, but to connect to the on going path we have chosen to exist, from.
It’s these trying times that should lead us one step closer to the righteous path we come from, with a better understanding and offering to this holy connection of our being.



And to learn love, the greatest challenge. 


Peace,


Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Nicole and Belinda,
 
Yeah, lately, in the midst of trying to work this all out, I find myself saying something really, really deep, profound, and mystical, that being “Oh fart!”

Re: The God Particle?

Opening -


:):)


Love,


Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

sorry this took so long, i dont get online much, since i realised i had eternity to play with ive had a rather laid back approach to life hehe!! thanks to everyone for responding and giving your views, ill respond to those in another post….
I made a few contacts through yahoo answers, people who believe a similar thing to me and many of them suggested that i not make this theory common knowledge. The way i see it is that people will accept this as truth because their experiences have led them to a similar understanding or they will think it’s a load of nonsense so no harm will come of sharing it. here goes…

All of my life ive had vivid dreams, occasionally id wake up and remember a dream where id been floating in light, just blissfully floating in white light with no thoughts or memories, just a blissful feeling of ‘nothingness’. Most of my life i have had lucid dreams, dreams where i know im asleep and dreaming and i have control of the direction of that dream, but with this particular ‘floating in light’ dream i had no awareness of the dream until id woke up.

Over the years my dreams have become more vivid and more frequent and i have more or less totally mastered the control of my lucid dreams, to the point where half of the time i actually give up some lucidity, give up the control so that i can be drawn along by the ‘plot’ of my dream!!

Dreaming this way has always made me question reality, my dreams are so real (sometimes realer than real!) and even when im not lucid the content of the dream, the people, the scenery, the plot of the dream are all so well constructed that its difficult to distinguish from the real world (other than its non-linear quality and my defiance of the laws of physics!) And all of this is created by my subconscious. Even when i am lucid and controlling the dream, everything about the dream other than what i choose to do is created by my subconscious while i run around in the dream.

Over the past couple of years i have got to a point where i am dreaming most of the night, so i am never really unconscious as such, and i have started to be aware of the ‘floating in light’ dream while i am having it. It is almost like i have reached total lucidity, to the point where i am in control of all aspects of my consciousness, not even my subconscious is free to make up the background details of the dream and all that is left is white light and a feeling. A feeling that i am not the body lying in bed, i am not ‘me’, i am a higher consciousness that has chosen to live the life of ‘me’ and that remembers other lives, many of which i cant even interpret when im not in the white light, or even when im in it, i cant remember it other than a feeling which is translated by ‘me’, the human, when i leave the white light.
 
I have always had dreams where i live other lives and remember things that never happened and i believe that it is just my brains way of interpreting these other realities that i have experienced, my mind fits them into a framework i can understand, the framework based on this reality i am currently experiencing.
While im in the white light i know i could leave this reality behind if i choose to but the thing that stops me is knowing that the people in my life wouldnt understand, they would think i died in my sleep, this is why i always come back.

I have come to the conclusion that we all exist in that white light, outwith time and space, and we choose to experience different realities, different dreams created by either ourselves or another ‘white lighter’ (as i call them) or created by all of us. Created in much the same way as our dreams, we experience it while our subconscious does the background work. (science is probing into the ‘reality’ of this dream and is coming out very confused with what they see, particles that respond to our thoughts, that exist in many places at once, they are seeing the essence of the stuff all realities are made of, i.e, thoughts, consciousness at a subatomic level (my original question) very hard to explain with mathematics!! The big bang, evolution etc are all part of the “programming” of this universe)

When you are born you either choose to forget your true self or it happens naturally since this reality is so alien to our normal existence, then we have a gradual learning process, discovering everything about this reality, experiencing all the range of emotions, all the possibilities, all the intricacies created by the rules of this universe, then we die and wake up in the white light and choose/dream/experience another reality.
This particular reality is based on rules of entropy allowing for renewal and variation, some of which may seem like death and decay, good and evil, not very nice to us but it is a ‘free for all’ reality which is left to its own devices and of course how long we spend here is determined (70 - 80 yrs) .

But there are countless other realities based on similar rules, many within this same universe or variations of these or vastly different, most beyond our comprehension. When we die we see this reality for what it is, just an experience, like awaking from a dream, even a bad dream can seem like an exhilarating experience.

Now the reason that this isnt supposed to be common knowledge (according to some!!) is because knowing all of this kind of makes it a bit of a pointless existence, and the point of coming here and forgetting where you came from is supposed to enhance the experience. So you dont really want someone coming along and reminding you, do you!! You see if we are eternal beings then we have nothing to learn, there is no karma, there is no punishment, we already know everything, we have only one purpose, one thing to do, that is experience, experience the infinite possible worlds and universes and dreams etc etc.

It is difficult to view it from outside the constraints of this existence, with its limitations, punishments, judgements etc, it is more or less impossible to imagine no time or no space, so we have to give meaning/purpose to everything and besides, within the reality you are experiencing there is purpose, meaning and countless reasons to do what you do.

As i said before people will either believe it based on personal experience, or fit it in with their own beliefs or think its a lot of rubbish so no harm can be done. For someone like me who believes it, it actually improves the experience, realising that this is just a dream, just one experience of many for a timeless, spaceless being like me makes it all the more exciting. Besides while you are here you are still held by the laws of physics, the laws of this universe and the laws of the current society you live in so the knowledge cant be abused.

Hope this makes sense, any questions are most welcome…..

Re: The God Particle?

Yes, it makes a lot of sense, G’kar, thanks for taking the time to explain.

I hadn’t realised what a master lucid dreamer you were. I’m trying to imagine having so many lucid dreams that I have to give up control. For me, the lucid dream rarely if ever happens.

I am deeply intrigued by your description of the recurring white light dream, and that it is not lucid, and your interpretation of what it means and the nature of reality. 

I wonder, in your conversations with others, have you met anyone who has had similar dreams to your white light? 

Looking forward to hearing more,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

G’kar said:

Who
knows, maybe there are millions of other universes based on totally different
laws that we cant even comprehend while we are here but that we can experience
after this one. Lets face it, we have eternity, or maybe we exist outwith time
and space. 

This
is very good; I think this may be the case.

I
am on record [in my book] as saying this universe is only one aspect of a
dimension among a potential eternity of others.

 BTW

This
“God particle” they are looking for is suppose to be the key to understanding
what causes mass in particles

Re: The God Particle?

Zak, I’ve always been drawn to multi-verse theories.

I was reading Eli’s blog and it seemed to fit in with this discussion, so I am linking it here, with an excerpt, I hope you can all take a few moments to read the whole blog, though:

Eli’s Entry “How the body, mind and soul are related”:



Śrīmad Bhāgavatam (also known as Srimad Bhagavata, Bhagavatam, Bhagavata Purana  or Bhagwat) is an authoritative exposition of Vedic knowledge. It covers subjects like the nature of the self, the origin of the universe, what is life, what is a human being’s role in life, what is meant by cycle of birth and death, what is the relation between God and man, etc. It contains tales related to various incarnations of Lord Vishnu and mainly deals with the life and work of Lord Krishna.

One must not confuse Śrīmad Bhāgavatam with Śrīmad Bhāgavat Gita. While Gita is a summary of the entire Vedantic Knowledge compressed in just eighteen chapters totalling only 700 verses, Śrīmad Bhāgavatam is a massive work comprising of 12 sections called “Skandhas”(cantos), and a total of 18000 verses.



1. mṛtyur janmavatāḿ vīra dehena saha jāyate
   adya vābda-śatānte vā mṛtyur vai prāṇināḿ dhruvaḥ
                                                                (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.1.38)

One who takes birth is sure to die, for death is born with the body. Someone may die today and someone may die or after hundreds of years, but it is sure that  every living entity will die.


2. dehe pañcatvam āpanne dehī karmānugo ‘vaśaḥ
   dehāntaram anuprāpya prāktanaḿ tyajate vapuḥ
                                                                (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.1.39)


When the present body dies and is reduced to five elements (earth, water, fire, air and ether)  the indweller of the body (the embodied soul), automatically takes another physical body depending on his own karma. 


3. vrajaḿs tiṣṭhan padaikena yathaivaikena gacchati
   yathā tṛṇa-jalaukaivaḿ dehī karma-gatiḿ gataḥ 
                                                                (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.1.40)

Just as a person walking rests one foot on the ground and then lifts the other foot, just as a catterpiller transfers itself to one leaf and then gives up the previous one, in the same way the living entity (the embodied soul) undergoing the karmic consequence takes shelter of another body and gives up the one he had before.

Re: The God Particle?

This God Particle may exist.

Perhaps we may understand the ethics of such power and technology on our way towards such a discovery.

That is my hope.

Re: The God Particle?

It's fascinating, isn't it? By the way, should we call you pirocheetah or Harmony?

Peace,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

My name is David Pirochta

Pirocheetah symbols the passion of my existence.

Harmony is what I exist for.

: ) My preference is that we understand who we are

Re: The God Particle?

Thank you, David,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

The god particle exists. And doesn't exist.  

But it's not below us, in size or dimension– it's above us

but it's below us because it's above us

the problem is that any such particle– a 'god' particle, would be, from our perspective, a fundamental paradox.  

humans have, instead of exploring the paradox, typically decided that paradox makes things unreal.  

instead, paradox makes things, period.

Re: The God Particle?

Alan, I'll need you to unpack this further for me, please.

Love,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Nicole, I would love to!  I'm still trying to figure out how exactly to unpack that… 

Lets talk for a minute about dimension 0

The lack of Depth, Length, and Height, the lack of Time… 

There is only one thing in a space with no dimension: existence, or inexistance.  

a “particle” has no dimension.  by definition.  It's a singularity.  

A particle can only exist.  there can be nothing inside of it.  

Right?

…

Now, lets imagine the beginning of the universe.  One particle becomes: it's becoming is the beginning of the universe.  (go with me.)

It exists.  

As far as existing goes, if everything is one particle and nothing is outside of it and it is everything, can't it be said, to a degree, the particle represents: “existance is?”

or: “I am?”

Next comes the big bang…

Re: The God Particle?

Alan, my brother, I'm not wrapping my mind around this right now, but I will come back to it tomorrow. Promise. Gotta go to choir practice now.

Love ya,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Nicole, my sister, 

its quite a lot to wrap one's brain around.  I took me a solid week and tons of notebook paper, after a good two years of study of related subjects.  That's why, although I do feel a reason to bring it up, it… seems more like a seed I'm handing out than anything full-grown.  Maybe one day it will grow.  : )

Re: The God Particle?

Seeds are good! This site was originally Zaadz, as you probably know, which comes from the word for seed, which is why we have “pods” for groups. Seeds can be tremendously powerful.

I'm thinking of Jesus' words about faith as a mustard seed…

Love,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

I understand what Alan is saying because I understand.

~Harmony~

Re: The God Particle?

You have handed the seed of the lotus.

PS: The lotus blossoms twice ; )

Re: The God Particle?

Only twice?  Lol…

well yes, of course twice, but… also, dang it it never stops.  double blossoming into infinity, that crazy lotus.  : )

you agree, Piro?
<3

Re: The God Particle?

ah yes

Re: The God Particle?

            *
_____          ______

           l

(________________)



I am happy for my brother

Re: The God Particle?

the second blossoming will be for all beings (as if the first one wasn't)

: ) LAUGHING ON FLOOR CRYING

Let us rejoice!

Re: The God Particle?

lol… dude, these gaia people have a tendency towards skittishness from… say, our perspective… overwhelming abundance of joy will make many nervous.  : )

not that I particularly care.  I've been trying to make myself seem very calm and rational around here, and I think you're blowing my cover, I don't mind at all.  : )

rejoice

It's nice to have those around who let it out.  

come on and let it ou-out….

Re: The God Particle?

Sing out! Sing clear!

Joyously,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Everyone in science focuses on the data the facts and details and not on the reality that they are self aware life, observing all this stuff. Everything we know starts with consciousness. Then we can look at the details. We all have different opinions about the details because consciousness also has emotions or feelings about what’s right and what wrong. Not based on hard proven facts but what FEELS right. A scientist will deny it, but can he prove a philosopher wrong who says reality is a dream? No but he feels happier with his science. Science comes up with answers, with evidence and facts when religion does that we call it miracles. Science has today’s miracles (TV DVDs microwave ovens aeroplanes) so they have fair claim to being today’s religion.
But even science fall flat when asked to explain WHY the laws of physics formed. They have no idea. Why should, as Gkar says, eyes form, or ears form, or anything else if consciousness doesn’t exist and CAN’T see or hear anything worth learning to see? Sight had to exist before the eye. Our brain can see without the eye in our dreams.
Yet back to where this started the one thing we all HAVE to agree on (or be labelled mad) is we are conscious. Is it really so hard to see that everything evolved FOR and because of life? The biological evolution?
So the god particle? As a lucid dreamer, I feel I know the nature of reality. While being plugged in to other “dreamers” their ideas can stabilise this reality (contribute extra input and ideas to our lives) Stability, which is created by more than one being existing in any given reality, …this one, a dream or an astral plane (astral plane simply being a dream where more than one person is present) Reality is a sort of dream/astral plane, where billions of us are all together in the same reality. As I've said before we can ALL be so thankful for all that reality has already created before we were born. Imagine born in a coma with no sensory input and having to create your own dream reality!!
The god particle, where energy becomes matter at the quantum level. This is easy to do in a dream. A lucid dreamer can shape reality. He is the energy shaping dream matter. In this world we have evolved the laws of physics to spread that power more evenly and prevent us from dreaming alone, in a world so different from anyone else’s they wouldn’t even recognise us as life at all.
We are plugged in to this Matrix of brains or consciousness' and we must follow the rules. Science wants to take the final step in to the complete understanding of the nature of reality. To create matter from energy. (find the god particle) But WE ARE the energy, self awareness is the energy and magic is what you can do with it, and nothing is impossible.
To create matter and to understand the quantum level we could have transporters and replicators all like Star Trek. But what stops Star Trek technology from doing the things that Q in Star Trek does? (Q the all powerful being) Only the laws of physics which Scotty keeps saying “Ya canny change the laws Oh physics Captain!” Then proceeds every week to do so….
But the truth is we are our own barrier we prevent the power of magic by our disbelief and our negative emotions. The same emotions which take away lucidity and create nightmares, could create a hell, if we didn’t first learn HOW to enjoy life before having complete freedom and freewill.
So science can only create more complex laws of physics to prevent the use of this science from being abused. Like the Star Trek tecno bable guys do to explain why things don’t work the same way when you need them.
And we, …. if we can overpower all our negativity and disbelief we can do anything we want MAGIC!!! That’s the god particle. Each moment is a moment of creation where we move through the eternal now and create memories…… But when we consciously create also matter then we do matter we have found the god particle……

Re: The God Particle?

Watch this

Re: The God Particle?

or as Jack et al. say in Deep space Nine - You can't break the laws of physics, but you can bend them!

oy, another video! can you give me the short version, please?

Re: The God Particle?

I don't think there is a short version its a film/documentary almost as good as the Matrix

Re: The God Particle?

dailyplanit and Nicole,

The inclusion of this video fits so well with a personal story and fits so nicely into the God particle thingy.  However, it is a story about my son's journey that I was part of (oh what an honor that was).  Anyhow's, my son was 15.  He had, and has, a history of not being able to sleep at night (started the second week of his air breathing life).  Anyhows, one of these nights, he felt “compelled” to write something down.  He said that while he was washing his hands and looking in the mirror at himself, he realized something about the nature of reality.  He said it just hit his brain like a bang.  So, he wrote it all down.  When I was up the next morning, he showed it to me.  I read it and asked what he thought it was about, where did it fit in the context of mythical, mystical, philosophical.  He said he didn't know it just came to him as if he had known it all along and just had never tapped into it being in his brain as he didn't know it was in his brain.  He was a bit confused by the experience and where the stuff he wrote came from.  He was after all fifteen.

At the time he was taking Philosophy.  I suggested that he show it to his teacher and ask her what she thought about it.  She gave it back to him the next day with a note.  She said it sounded like quantum physics to her.  As neither of us had heard of quantum physics, I looked it up on the Internet.  He was blown away by what he read because what he had written did fit into quantum theory.  Okay, so where did this skrt chasing, albeit historically philosphical, kid get information that was in essence a translation of quantum physics as it applies to the nature of reality to a human being as compared to the nature of reality in universal terms of eternity from the beginning of time to the end of time of which there is no such thing?  (Basically, if I understood it correctly, this is what his paper was saying and applying to our understanding of everyday life and experience). 

This very same day, that evening, we went to rent a DVD.  What did we find?  The DVD of the very same movie dailyplanit linked in his post.  So, what I am trying to get to is, of course there is a God particle.  It leads us to the places within ourselves that contribute to our growth as God creatures in the monkey bodies we pocess.  Actually, many of us quite possibly are an amalgamation of many types of spirit beings in one monkey body.  It is all about experience–that is it.  Observations in the mind of what occurs in the physical in a myriad of combinations manifested in billions of monkey bodies feeding information about experience in this time and place with the help and guidance of our Father, our Creator.  When looked at from this perspective, even reading the Bible takes on a whole new light, Old and New Testament.  The thing is that makes it all the more difficult, is that I suspect that some of the folks here, while all having a spark of divinity within them, are more monkey than others.  Please don't think I am putting down monkeys or being spiritual snobby here.  It only makes the experience more spiritual muscle building.  The more you have to “tuned in” due to the cirucumstances you find yourself in, the more guidance, the more wisdom, the more understanding you bring into your life and to the overall conciousnes of man.  Boy my spelling is bad.  So, somehow my son was able to tap into this in himself or of himself or around himself and once he tapped into it, he came upon the DVD to help put it into a framework.  How it will aid in his understanding of himself and life is yet to be seen.  The boy is a very complicated being to say the least.  The God particle at work!  He pressed some kind of button and it was put to work at guiding him, giving him what he needed for himself and the nature of his contribution perhaps to the rest of the monkeys.  It is all a very circular thing it seems. 

Re: The God Particle?

Hello! Good to “see” you again.

That is a really amazing story, Opening. What you say also brings to mind for me Jung and the collective unconscious

Hugs,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

I haven't read all of the posts on here yet, so I don't know everything that has already been said here. So I'm just going to reply to your original post :)

Science, in my opinion, is a reflection to religion. Afterall, science was born in the times when the church was the main driving force in a community. The church answered many spiritual questions for people, but could not explain the basic functions of nature. So science was “sent out” into the world to find the answers of “why are we here and why does the world work the way it does?”.

Something we need to understand about science- it's basic structure arose from a community of church followers- and the key term in religion is “faith”- science's main principles rely on ideas that are “faith based”. In the same way religion uses faith of god and god's “ways of doing business” to support religious text (as in, there is no solid proof of god, but we maintain a faith that god exists), science uses a faith that “gravity” and “mass” exist.

Gravity and mass are two basic principles that make science work. Science uses these formulas to work out other formulas (e=mc(squared) means energy=MASS times the speed of light squared). However, there is no explanaition for what exactly gravity and mass are. There are no formulas, science has no solid proof these even exist, so they simply says, “we must have faith that these exist in order for everything else to work right”.

I think this fact has held science back because the whole structure is based on something that may not even exist in the way science thinks it does. What if the whole idea of gravity is slightly off? What would happen to all other scientific “facts” that have been built up upon this concept?

This may be where scientific proof of consciousness exists- in the basic concepts we have yet to find a definition for.

Quamtam physics has even more interesting phenomena that can't be explained. The term may sound scary (haha), but maybe you should look into it if you're interested in scientific studies that explore consciousness. They don't specifically say quantam physics is the study of consciousness, but their discoveries are beginning to break our current concepts of how the world works.

A few examples from Quantam Physics experiments:
-in one experiment- particles acted one way when something (like a camera) was observing them, but acted completely different when no one was there to watch what they were doing. As if the particle KNEW someone was observing it and acted the way the observer expected it to act.

-particles that have been “linked” and are like partners of each other are seperated by a large distance. Then something is done to change one particle. You would think the change would apply to just the one that was changed. But INSTANTLY, it's partner particle reflects the change- as if they communicated with each other faster than the speed of light even though they were a huge distance apart (and right now, science says nothing can travel faster than the speed of light).

There is another experiment I remember where they couldn't predict how a photon (light particle) passed through a tube. It either passed through or it didn't- and our current concept of science says that everything is supposed to act a certain way with a certain predictable order. But more and more they are finding instances where particles are acting unpredictable, as if they are choosing what to do or as if we are influencing how they act.

Re: The God Particle?

Hi! Welcome to our discussions.

You bring up an interesting point about the faith aspect of science.

This blog here states uncategorically that science is not based on faith, and then says this:

The scientific method makes one assumption, and one assumption only: the Universe obeys a set of rules. That’s it. There is one corollary, and that is that if the Universe follows these rules, then those rules can be deduced by observing the way Universe behaves. This follows naturally; if it obeys the rules, then the rules must be revealed by that behavior.


Well, that is quite an assumption! As you said, it includes ideas about the nature of gravity and mass, the laws of physics, etc which we are discovering are not quite as simple as Newton thought. 


It will be interesting to see what quantum and post-quantum physics come up with!

Re: The God Particle?

The “beliefs” we have in how mass and gravity work, the foundations of physics, must be accurate or else we could not get a spaceship off the ground, into space, hang out in space a while, and get it back to the ground safely.  Science is also basically a field where the way of things is observed and conclusions drawn based on what is observed.  If we throw something in the air, it falls to the ground.  The rate of speed that it falls to the ground can be measured through observation.  This tells us something about both mass and gravity.  A mathematical formula can be drawn that depicts what occured.  The why it occured does not have to be known to know that it occured.  I think that is where you get to the principal of we believe, have faith, that our conclusions are correct.  What is observed and depicted with numbers.  

For me, faith in the Father, a Creator, is likewise observable, not depicted in numbers but in “feelings” invoked, the sensing of something, the “knowing” that I am not alone.  All of this is observable.  Jesus was observed on the cross dying in great pain and says “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”.  A creature, an animal, a man, could not display such strength in the face of so much heartache and pain were there not something “higher” within him, around him, perserving that which cannot be destroyed, if there was nothing there sustaining the tie to a higher being within him. 

Everyday doctors witness as that which should not happen happens and people on the brink of death come back.  The left ventricle of my heart was destroyed by a flu.  I was pretty upset with the whole situation as I was in my late thirties and a single mother of an eight year old.  I said “God why did this happen to me? I have loved you”  I received a response, a voice in my head.  The words “We did not destroy your heart.  The flu did.  We saved you.  Now, be quiet and wait and all will be well.”  Or, something to that effect.  Within a month in a half, my heart was coming back.  I was supposed to have to have a heart transplant.  The left ventricle of my heart regenerated.  From a dried up looking prune of a thing, it became healthy again.  This was observable.  

The doctors didn't understand it but said that it wasn't the first time they couldn't explain something and just said, you will be okay.   That was over ten years ago.  No more heart attacks and I smoke.  This is God (not the smoking.).  This is observable.  Fully understandable, no.  But, fully observable. 

I was told I would be okay by a “voice” when doctors said I would probably have to have a transplant within a very short period of time.  When that time was up, voila, my heart had regenerated when human hearts aren't supposed to be able to regenerate.  Somewhere in my file at the hospital, there are pictures of my heart before and after the actions of God took over.  An intelligence, not my own, told me I was okay when I was in fear.  So why folks say that you can't prove there is a God is not quite understandable to me.  I think it is more accurate to say that man can't prove it.  However, God proves His existence everyday all over the world in many, many big and small ways.

 

Re: The God Particle?

Opening, that's very interesting - and yet we don't argue with gravity or other “scientific facts”, but atheists can always come up with other more plausible (to them) explanations for what seems obvious to theists as God's work.

That's what faith does - whether faith in God or not in God. It just makes sense to you one way or another, which is why arguments over the existence of God are so futile.

Love,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Yes, I understand observing something and reacting to it, or observing something again and again and then making it into a fact when it behaves the same way.

So it makes sense that something must be working if we observe something, make a mathematical formula, then use that information to build rocket ships or whatever.

And here's a wacky idea: what if the way the world “works” only works that way because the particles reorganize themselves to fit into OUR formulas and concepts?

So that's why I say if we actually understood what mass and gravity were, maybe we would really understand our world- and then we'd be doing more than flying rockets, maybe we'd be the ones flying! When we observed “I throw this apple up and it falls to the ground” and then we lept head-first into creating science before we even understood it's basic terms, maybe the world accomodated us so we could continue to explore and “advance”.

If people debate god's existence, I wonder why they don't debate science more. You can tell a person anything and if you're convincing enough, they will believe everything you say is the ultimate truth without even giving it a second thought.

Re: The God Particle?

“And here's a wacky idea: what if the way the world “works” only works that way because the particles reorganize themselves to fit into OUR formulas and concepts?”

I love this idea of your's.  It reminds me of the movie “What dreams may come” with Robin Williams.  Also, walking on water is an example of what you are talking about.  It would be very, very cool indeed if we were to discover that indeed all is possible.  But, if you recall in the Bible the man that became so enamoured of his own “power” that he thought that he could fly.  He believed this so much that he jumped off of a tower to his death.  The point of this Biblical story, and if you tie it into the story of walking on water, is that faith in God is what parts the waters.   It is God, acting in us, that makes it happen.  In short, faith in a power beyond the physical and beyond what is seen with the eyes.  That is what makes Quantum physics so fascinating.  What if it is faith that moves these particles–Faith that it can be done and Faith that it will be done for us.   I have believed for a long time that science and God go hand in hand.  To know what is truly possible, to get full use, if you will, of what has been created and is at our disposal, one must invoke the power of God.  The power of God within us, around us, we live in God, we are of God.  If only I could harnass a total acceptance of this, then maybe I could also walk on water.  If I fully evovle myself in an acceptance of all that I am–harness the power of me being in God and God being in me.  I know this is true.  I just don't just be it.  Why?  Hecky if I know. 

Re: The God Particle?

I know what you mean about the Robin Williams movie, Opening, the way that the people made their own versions of heavens by what they thought and wanted.

But it's hard to reconcile with our experience. 

I don't remember that story you are referring to from the Bible about someone believing he could fly so he jumped off a tower and died. But the exploration of faith in the story of Jesus walking on the water, and Peter starting to walk but faltering, is an interesting one. God acting in us, but not without something very active on our part. What is the faith that moves mountains, then?

Love,

Nicole