The God Particle?

I posted this question on yahoo answers but its not really open to debate there so i thought id try it here.

Do you think science will one day find something resembling consciousness at a subatomic level? A force that has driven life to exist, a ‘desire to be’ , a basic programming if you like that has caused all things to become. Dont get me wrong im talking more god particle evolution than God 6 day creation here.
Ive never been happy with the idea of the universe emerging in a random chaotic fashion, why would sub atomic particles even come together to form atoms, or something as complex as a single celled organism just fall together, nothing would ever happen or ever ‘be’ without a driving force.
Without a consciousness-like drive behind it, a random bunch of amino acids proteins etc etc just wouldnt do anything, it wouldnt desire food or develop eyes or senses because it wouldnt even know there was anything to see or feel.
Equally difficult to believe is that no sooner had it fallen together it would just miraculously fall apart to create an exact copy of itself, then continue in a random chaotic fashion to fall together into something as complex as a human with our amazing consciousness.
This isnt an argument for creation as such but for conscious evolution, guided evolution or maybe rules and programming and laws of physics put into place to allow something amazing to form. Yes it sounds like pantheism, which is sexed up atheism apparently, but science just wont let a divine foot in the door, or even a semi-conscious foot.
My point is; what if science discovers and quantifies what we might now call supernatural after saying for long enough it doesnt exist?
(as a footnote i added this, which is up for discussion here)
my personal theory:
I think that we, as conscious beings who now create all manner of things including virtual worlds etc, i think we created this universe, we progarammed it and maybe guided it along the way, and in much the same way as we will one day have virtual reality games where we can download our consciousness into the game, we came into this universe to experience it. We even choose to forget that we are experiencing/playing the game (after all it would be much more fun that way!) or maybe the limitations of this physical universe make forgetting a pre-requisite of taking form here.
Some may say why would we have such horrible things happen here, but if you imagine waking from a nightmare, it all seems silly and even exhilirating and after waking you see it for what it was, just the same way you may view this world when you die and wake up from this experience/game, besides for the majority of people itspretty good here most of the time!!.
Death and decay are just part of a universe based on rules of entropy, renewal, making room for new lifeforms, experiences, civilisations, an ever-changing universe, expanding, changing, growing.
Who knows, maybe there are millions of other universes based on totally different laws that we cant even comprehend while we are here but that we can experience after this one. Lets face it, we have eternity, or maybe we exist outwith time and space.
I know lots of religious people wont like this idea so im open to how anyones beliefs etc dont fit in with this theory so i can resolve the idea in my own mind.
Its also probably all been thought of before but Ill post later why i came to this conclusion, the personal experiences that have led to it etc…..
………..ive modified this a bit so its more open for discussion, ill check back later for feedback etc, if you think it should be in another thread etc please advise, hi nicole, im sure you will be popping in to say hellooooo………:))

Re: The God Particle?

Hi there,


You know me so well, here I am. :) Long time no see. 


Excellent conversation starter and I hope we hear from lots of other people. So much great food for thought here …


Who knows, maybe there are millions of other universes based on totally different laws that we cant even comprehend while we are here but that we can experience after this one. Lets face it, we have eternity, or maybe we exist outwith time and space. 



Who knows, indeed? Very intriguing possibility. 


Looking forward to hearing later why you came to this conclusion, etc :)


Peace,


Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Theoretical physics has already come close to discovering the nature of the universe with string theory but they haven’t proven it yet.  As to your assertion that

“i think we created this universe, we progaramed it and maybe guided it along the way,”

This is quite true but on a personal level.  The opening lines of the Dhamapada say it best

Re: The God Particle?

You Know i thought about it and you know how u siad GOD would not approve of my behavour well he defently would not approve of the group people and u cause u guys are saying he is not real, and a another thing if you non-beleivers and athesists say your opions and beleifs a christian can to and i can speak my opions and belifs like u all do so u and your fellow mates are just as wrong so do not go tell me im wrong when u and your fellow mates cant admit u guys are wrong, and also nicole if u do not beleive in him why use bible veres? 

Re: The God Particle?

I have no issue with you speaking your opinions and beliefs, in fact I welcome them, if you can do so without attacking others or name-calling. You are most welcome to speak up here. It is an open forum.

Re: The God Particle?

I have to admit that i should have not siad the hell thing but everything else is true, GOD is the only one that decides where we go so i should have not siad that but u know i am going to follow GOD so i do not have to argue with u cause the bible says not to argue with people like u so this is goodbye and have a good life, and i hope u all find the truth and nicole i was not attacking u or the people in this group i was speaking the truth and fact about GOD and my opoin

Re: The God Particle?

and also nicole wat i meant is if u do not beleive in him why use his word, against people when u do not even  care about him or his word how do u know his wordif u are a non beleiver?

Re: The God Particle?

Why do you think I am a non believer or I do not care about God, just because my belief is not exactly what yours is?

I have written much in this group about my beliefs, if you care to take the time, you may read for yourself what is in my heart. 

Re: The God Particle?

Then exactly what is yur beleif when u talk and associate with people that say things about God, what type of religion does that?

Re: The God Particle?

Ask yourself, with whom did Jesus associate? The religious people, or the prostitutes, tax collectors, fishermen, labourers… in short, everyone else but.

Love to you,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

U know a good christian would stop fighting with u and i guess to u a good christian is just shutting there mouth and setting aside and listening to you all talk about God like he is not real i guess that is why i got irratated about you all Saying he is not real when he is i do not have to prove it to u guys that he is so i am no longer gonna talk to u nicole goodbye GOD Rocks This World!

Re: The God Particle?

Goodbye, then. All the best,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

There is no outwith time or space there is either u will go to heaven or hell do not take this wrong im only bibicalness.

There is none before me and there is none after me i am Alpha and Omega, The First and The Last. Revalations Chapter 1

Re: The God Particle?

Its me TallTower I know i siad i was not coming back but I spoke with my mom and she siad just to make sure that the group knew i had siad i was sorry and since nicole siad she didnt have a problem with me talking with u all as long as i was nice. Iv thought about it and I do want to be apart of the group so with that im going to stick to bibical scriptures, therefore at judgement GOD can say I did the right thing by using bibical scriptures and letting u know the truth.

IN THE BEGINNING GOD ceated the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

So GOD created man in his OWN image, in the image of GOD created he him; male and female created he them.  Psalms 1:27

And GOD created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and GOD saw that it was good.  Psalms 1:21

Re: The God Particle?

Your mom gives good advice.

Thanks for sharing the verses from the beginning of the Bible. To me, the universe shows God's amazing creativity. So much diversity and wonder.

Blessings,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Scientists have discovered so much, and yet.. they are only scratching the surface!

I was reading a book called “Thresholds of the Mind” by Bill Harris, it comes with his Holosync meditation CD’s, here’s a part talking about seeking spiritual experiences..

“Recent research suggests that there is a built-in human yearning for what scientists now call “unitary experience,” and that this yearning has been a primary driving force in human evolution. This experience may even be the motivation behind many entirely secular and non-spiritual human activities.
According to research done at the university of Pennsylvania Medical School, the search for spiritual or unitary experiences is intimately interwoven with human biology, hard wired into our brains. In their book, Why God Won’t Go Away, researchers Andrew Newberg MD and Eugene D’Aquili, MD., Ph.D., describe the brain activity of meditating Buddhist monks and praying Franciscan nuns, at the exact moment of such unitary experiences. Using high tech imaging …. discovered that intensely focused spiritual contemplation (ie., meditation or prayer) creates changes in brain activity, that lead to tangible yet ineffable experiences of oneness and connectedness with the rest of the universe. What Buddhists call “onesness with the universe,” and Franciscan nuns call “being in the presence of God,” are not the result of delusory or wishful thinking, but rather the result of a sequence of clear, discrete, observable, and recordable neurophysiological events. ”

I like Bill Harris because he does research into science etc but he’s also very spiritual.

Re: The God Particle?

belinda, that’s some fascinating research, isn’t it? I have enjoyed following these types of studies.


ricosoma,


“Every person is a new door to a different world.”



Apparently that’s a quote from the movie Six degrees of Separation, have you seen it? 


Now, where is that G’kar? He promised to return to share more :)


Love,


Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Yes, Nicole, I have seen “Six degrees of separation” but it was a while ago.  I’ve forgotten most of it except that I really enjoyed Wil Smith’s performance (as usual).
Maybe I’ll rent it again.
 

Re: The God Particle?

G’kar,
Does this sound somewhat like what you are talking about?
The brain itself is divided into regions, and within the regions they are divided into subsets. Some subsets interact among themselves more than others, and these are called functional clusters. The brain is designed to have various circuits, of which contemporary brain researchers have identified three, which they call convergent, divergent, and reverberating circuits. A functional cluster can have a divergent circuit that conducts neural activity to outlying regions of the brain or CNS. Sensory information (e.g., sounds, symbols, and images) can be produced that stimulates the temporal formation of just such a functional cluster within the thalamocortical system that catalyzes a pre-designated shift in consciousness.
Whether you can equate this shift in consciousness as inducing an increase in fluid intelligence is dependent on other factors. This is not a singular dynamic core, but rather an integral part of a larger dynamic system that connects the individual not only to their human-soul consciousness, but that also of the Genetic Mind.
There is within the thalamocortical system what scientists refer to as the reticular thalamic nucleus (nRt). It’s widely accepted by neuroscience that nRt plays a vital role in the judicious regulation of the flow of neural information between the thalamus and cortex. What is not understood is how specific sensory information (light frequencies, sound frequencies, rhythmic synchronization, ULF, symbolic images) can influence how the ILN and nRt systems interoperate to form a hybrid functional cluster that enhances fluid intelligence and accessibility to the Genetic Mind. This discovery is yet twenty years in the making, but it will occur.

Re: The God Particle?

Opening, do you have a link handy for this article? Do you know what is meant by the Genetic Mind?


Thanks,


Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

http://wingmakers.com/jamesqa.html

Re: The God Particle?

This is a neat thread.  Sometimes I can be a little dense in my understanding of what folks are saying, for I have a crazy form of dyslexia…in other words, I’m dense.  Anyhow, regarding consciousness, Heisenberg states that an atom is a wave and a particle simultaneiously and that what makes it a particle is it’s being observed.  Furthermore, two particles can be light years away and appear synchronized to the point that when one particle changes the other changes immediately.  In other words, the particles may not be two but one, or more appropriately, more than one and since the change is immediate, the signals between the photons are traveling faster than the speed of light.  Which is absurd.  Now to me the answer to the latter is easy. 
 
 
 
There is a place deep within us where we enter into infinity and infinity is a place where time and space cease.  Infinity cannot exist side-by-side with herself.  In Scriptures (Rig Veda, Bible, Tao te Ching, etc.) this place is defined as the beginning but our mistake as rational humans is to take this to mean a point in time where as it’s actually saying here and now.  So when God erupts with His infamous “Let there be Light” out of the womb of Tehom (the Deep), this writing came to be as well as your reading it.  That’s right, what I’m saying is that in Infinity you and I are closer to each other than our nose is to our face.  In INfinity there is no distance and hence no time.  This is how the two photons are synchronized and which would also account for Jung’s notion of synchronicity. 
 
 
 
Furthermore, as Heisnberg’s theories postualte, a particle behaves like a wave until it is observed, at which time the wave acts like a particle.  So, this screen and these words are waves with information which your eyes absorb and your brain then conceives an image.  Mathematician Fourier states that the brain does this through a form of calculus which has been named Fourier transforms.  Know, I’m completely ignorant of Calculus yet my brain is performing it as I type this message?  Wow!  This whole scenero is similar to the words of Christian mystic Meister Eckhart (in the 13th centure) who put it this way, “Does the Soul wish to know the nature of a man, a horse, or a God, She creates an image.”  Now, I have a hard time with the New Age, “I create my own reality”.  But I do believe in a relational view that WE create our own reality and at heart WE are I AM…or pure Being. 
 
 
 
But does this give human beings prime centrality in this universe?  I personally don’t think so.  Indeed, I think it arrogance.  I think, as per the Gaia Hypothesis, that we are in this together, with everybody else.  Humans are more akin to cells of the Earth while the Earth is a living, breathing conscious organism (hence my love for Deep Ecology).   If you attend to any ecological system living outside of man’s ignorance, it works and works quite well.  Unfortunately, in this Dark Age (the Kali Yuga as the Hindus refer to it), man (I mean this literally for I think women have been at the bottom of this equation) is IT.  But to me, man, and all of humanity, are holographic strands in a holographic universe (David Bohm, see karl Pribram for an introduction).  By this I mean that our brain functions as a mirror to how natural systems function both on Earth and in Heaven. 
 
 
 
Anyhow, hope I’m making sense.  Fun conversation.  Thanks.
 
Burl

Re: The God Particle?

Opening, thanks for the link, it really helps to get the context!

Burl, you are far from dense. I always enjoy your posts. As usual you make a number of excellent points here, about us being part of the Earth organism, about holographic strands, quantum reality and infinity and…

All so glorious!

Peace,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

scientists will never be able to find consciousness at any physical level, because it is not a location in physical space but the internal experience of that  same space. God, as pure consciousness, or as source of laws of life, is not at any place, and cannot be discovered with the tools of scientific method - disinterested observation - as an exotic particle or anything else.  

Re: The God Particle?

short, sweet and straight to the point. 

Thanks so much,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Yes, Consciousness can never be found for it is what’s looking.  Can an eye behold its self if not through a mirror?  Perhaps Creation reflects the Uncreated / Infinity and hence the Uncreated beholds its self?  In other words, infinity does not exist side-by-side with its self.  As the Tao Te Ching sings, “The Tao gives birth to 1, 1 gives birth to 2, 2 gives birth to 3, And THEN it is the Mother of the Universe.”  (This is reflected in our letter “A” with 2 lines separating (1 and 2 emerging from a point (0) with a third line bridging the two (relationship)). This is why in the passion of intercourse a couple will often cry out “O’ my God!”  In their loss of self in unity, what is it that they see?  Think of the Star of David.  The downward pointed triangle reflects the “fall” into time and space, into duality, the separation of mother and child…the movement of which is down and out.  The upward poiinted triangle is the return to unity, which is reflected in the upward pointed triangle and the act of intercourse which is upward and inward.  

Prior to differentiation of a human mother and child, there are several states.  A fetus says nothing and calls his mother nothing.  At this stage, there is no differentiation.  Then he emerges and eventually calls his mother Mama, Ma, etc.  But as he gets older and differentiates himself from her he begins to call her by the more formal term of M-Other.  In the depths of Peace, one actually calls Mother nothing at all for in the unborn or unmanifest state there is no THAT to call.  What is the Hindu Maya except the illusion of separation?  Hence, Brahman is said to be beyond any reference.  Take care. Burl

Re: The God Particle?

Burl, the more you share, the more possibilities open up. Thanks for tying in the Tao, and passion, and differentiation… This conversation is just getting more and more interesting!


Peace,


Nicole 

Re: The God Particle?

This is a neat thread!

Burl lol Sometimes I can be a little dense in my understanding of what folks are
saying, for I have a crazy form of dyslexia…in other words, I’m dense.

I read this from you followed by 2 intelligent posts!! I agree with Nicole, yyou ar far from dense. Thanks for sharing, very interesting.

Re: The God Particle?

I am far from dense. You’re right.  Sometimes I feel things more so than intellectually grasp.  So, sometimes I get a bit lost with words.  the words I do use generally comes from gut feelings and pictures.  For example, I understand the physics of David Bohm more by feel than by what is said about his theory and this, in turn, helps me to understand the complex spiritual teachings of Meister Eckhart, who is one of my most beloved.  I’m actually going to start a thread on him.  Hope you visit there.  Take care and thanks.  Burl 

Re: The God Particle?

Nicole,
I am not exactly sure of the much of the intended meaning of the information contained on that website.  Some of the documents are extremely interesting and contain great insights whether or not the premise behind them is true.  As far as there being a God Particle within us, I tend to agree with this though I am not exactly sure how to explain it.  I also don’t think that medical science or any of the basic sciences will find it as the sciences most likely don’t have the proper “methods” or modes of thinking to direct it.  If anything, it will be “stumbled” upon. 
As far as the question as to if it is possible that it is there, I think we have to remember that whatever wonderful thoughts, passions, spritual achievements (if there is such a thing) any of us may claim or identify with, we, human beings, are creatures.  We are fundamentally animals and fundamentally spiritual.  So, it does seem possible that within the animal is a connection to the spiritual.   Seems to me that this is most likely necessary in order for us to be the intellectual beings that we are.  As the animal houses the spiritual, and the spiritual continues on after the death of the physical (I am pretty sure of this), it is logical to assume that they are actually separate, but somehow tied to one another on a level that we don’t even contemplate because we never thought about it in this way before.  This is perhaps where the “God Particle” is housed.  We love our bodies so much, we don’t think about how dispensable they really are.
One thing that my experience has shown me is that there is far more going on on all kinds of levels than most the “books” of all types and all sources have put into words.  For instance, I think our DNA itself is a “God Particle”.  After working for a medical research institute, I know that medical science is totally unsure why things work the way they do.  They may be figuring out how they work with greater success and even imitating the processes, but not why–the true life force that directs actions and reactions.  I am also pretty sure that human evolution is still far from where it is destined to go. 
Over the last few months I have changed in my viewpoint in many ways.  I no longer try to explain things and God and the why of it all.  I take stabs at it knowing that it is most likely I am waaaaay off base.  I have accepted that I don’t know, can’t effectively explain what I do know, and may never have been intended to know so much that would make a really big difference in terms of taking me all that far from where I was when I took my first breath. 

Re: The God Particle?

Burl, hastening to your Meister Eckhart thread, yay!


Opening, it sounds like you are in a very exciting part of your path, enjoying the ride. Awesome!


I like the idea of DNA being a kind of “God Particle”, hmm, got to think about that some more.


Peace to you,


Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

DNA as the God Particle is a rich and suggestive idea, it resonates with me like this: Evolution is the process of Spirit manifesting itself. DNA is the inner mechanism of evolution as it appears in the physical realm, how it appears as physical object and process (Upper Right and Lower Right quadrants, in Wilber-speak). Whether we experience it and interpret it as God or nature depends on our internal psychic ecology. People who read books on metaphysics and follow a spiritual path will feel and understand it as divine immanence, biologists who read science text books and are atheist will see nothing but ‘frisky dirt’. No getting away from the self, and interpretation

Re: The God Particle?

“Over the last few months I have changed in my viewpoint in many ways. 
I no longer try to explain things and God and the why of it all.  I
take stabs at it knowing that it is most likely I am waaaaay off base. 
I have accepted that I don’t know, can’t effectively explain what I do
know, and may never have been intended to know so much that would make
a really big difference in terms of taking me all that far from where I
was when I took my first breath. ”

I am always reading and contemplating and sometimes it gets to a point that I am reading reading reading, thinking thinking thinking and then all of a sudden realise I haven’t been present for a while lol and I remember my mind wants to know the world inside out but it is my mind that is in the way of presence which needs no explanation and no understanding.

Re: The God Particle?

oh, very well said, Goatfish. There is no escape from the subjective, indeed. Wondering though if part of your post was truncated.

belinda, this is so true, mind can be a huge barrier at times,

peace,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Belinda.

Isn’t ‘wanting to know’, the reason why we are here in the first place.  Sure, it’s confusion can get the better of us at times, but I think that there are explanations needed in order to make our steps into this journey of ours, an awakening to a much lesser degree of confusion….a knock on that ol’ noggin of ours shall we say, and a step up to a better insight and meaning as to why our existence here, is necessary.
We are all here, not just to exist, but to connect to the on going path we have chosen to exist, from.
It’s these trying times that should lead us one step closer to the righteous path we come from, with a better understanding and offering to this holy connection of our being.
Food for thought.

“V” and Love,

Rita

Re: The God Particle?

Rita, that’s excellent, 
We are all here, not just to exist, but to connect to the on going path we have chosen to exist, from.
It’s these trying times that should lead us one step closer to the righteous path we come from, with a better understanding and offering to this holy connection of our being.



And to learn love, the greatest challenge. 


Peace,


Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Nicole and Belinda,
 
Yeah, lately, in the midst of trying to work this all out, I find myself saying something really, really deep, profound, and mystical, that being “Oh fart!”

Re: The God Particle?

Opening -


:):)


Love,


Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

sorry this took so long, i dont get online much, since i realised i had eternity to play with ive had a rather laid back approach to life hehe!! thanks to everyone for responding and giving your views, ill respond to those in another post….
I made a few contacts through yahoo answers, people who believe a similar thing to me and many of them suggested that i not make this theory common knowledge. The way i see it is that people will accept this as truth because their experiences have led them to a similar understanding or they will think it’s a load of nonsense so no harm will come of sharing it. here goes…

All of my life ive had vivid dreams, occasionally id wake up and remember a dream where id been floating in light, just blissfully floating in white light with no thoughts or memories, just a blissful feeling of ‘nothingness’. Most of my life i have had lucid dreams, dreams where i know im asleep and dreaming and i have control of the direction of that dream, but with this particular ‘floating in light’ dream i had no awareness of the dream until id woke up.

Over the years my dreams have become more vivid and more frequent and i have more or less totally mastered the control of my lucid dreams, to the point where half of the time i actually give up some lucidity, give up the control so that i can be drawn along by the ‘plot’ of my dream!!

Dreaming this way has always made me question reality, my dreams are so real (sometimes realer than real!) and even when im not lucid the content of the dream, the people, the scenery, the plot of the dream are all so well constructed that its difficult to distinguish from the real world (other than its non-linear quality and my defiance of the laws of physics!) And all of this is created by my subconscious. Even when i am lucid and controlling the dream, everything about the dream other than what i choose to do is created by my subconscious while i run around in the dream.

Over the past couple of years i have got to a point where i am dreaming most of the night, so i am never really unconscious as such, and i have started to be aware of the ‘floating in light’ dream while i am having it. It is almost like i have reached total lucidity, to the point where i am in control of all aspects of my consciousness, not even my subconscious is free to make up the background details of the dream and all that is left is white light and a feeling. A feeling that i am not the body lying in bed, i am not ‘me’, i am a higher consciousness that has chosen to live the life of ‘me’ and that remembers other lives, many of which i cant even interpret when im not in the white light, or even when im in it, i cant remember it other than a feeling which is translated by ‘me’, the human, when i leave the white light.
 
I have always had dreams where i live other lives and remember things that never happened and i believe that it is just my brains way of interpreting these other realities that i have experienced, my mind fits them into a framework i can understand, the framework based on this reality i am currently experiencing.
While im in the white light i know i could leave this reality behind if i choose to but the thing that stops me is knowing that the people in my life wouldnt understand, they would think i died in my sleep, this is why i always come back.

I have come to the conclusion that we all exist in that white light, outwith time and space, and we choose to experience different realities, different dreams created by either ourselves or another ‘white lighter’ (as i call them) or created by all of us. Created in much the same way as our dreams, we experience it while our subconscious does the background work. (science is probing into the ‘reality’ of this dream and is coming out very confused with what they see, particles that respond to our thoughts, that exist in many places at once, they are seeing the essence of the stuff all realities are made of, i.e, thoughts, consciousness at a subatomic level (my original question) very hard to explain with mathematics!! The big bang, evolution etc are all part of the “programming” of this universe)

When you are born you either choose to forget your true self or it happens naturally since this reality is so alien to our normal existence, then we have a gradual learning process, discovering everything about this reality, experiencing all the range of emotions, all the possibilities, all the intricacies created by the rules of this universe, then we die and wake up in the white light and choose/dream/experience another reality.
This particular reality is based on rules of entropy allowing for renewal and variation, some of which may seem like death and decay, good and evil, not very nice to us but it is a ‘free for all’ reality which is left to its own devices and of course how long we spend here is determined (70 - 80 yrs) .

But there are countless other realities based on similar rules, many within this same universe or variations of these or vastly different, most beyond our comprehension. When we die we see this reality for what it is, just an experience, like awaking from a dream, even a bad dream can seem like an exhilarating experience.

Now the reason that this isnt supposed to be common knowledge (according to some!!) is because knowing all of this kind of makes it a bit of a pointless existence, and the point of coming here and forgetting where you came from is supposed to enhance the experience. So you dont really want someone coming along and reminding you, do you!! You see if we are eternal beings then we have nothing to learn, there is no karma, there is no punishment, we already know everything, we have only one purpose, one thing to do, that is experience, experience the infinite possible worlds and universes and dreams etc etc.

It is difficult to view it from outside the constraints of this existence, with its limitations, punishments, judgements etc, it is more or less impossible to imagine no time or no space, so we have to give meaning/purpose to everything and besides, within the reality you are experiencing there is purpose, meaning and countless reasons to do what you do.

As i said before people will either believe it based on personal experience, or fit it in with their own beliefs or think its a lot of rubbish so no harm can be done. For someone like me who believes it, it actually improves the experience, realising that this is just a dream, just one experience of many for a timeless, spaceless being like me makes it all the more exciting. Besides while you are here you are still held by the laws of physics, the laws of this universe and the laws of the current society you live in so the knowledge cant be abused.

Hope this makes sense, any questions are most welcome…..

Re: The God Particle?

Yes, it makes a lot of sense, G’kar, thanks for taking the time to explain.

I hadn’t realised what a master lucid dreamer you were. I’m trying to imagine having so many lucid dreams that I have to give up control. For me, the lucid dream rarely if ever happens.

I am deeply intrigued by your description of the recurring white light dream, and that it is not lucid, and your interpretation of what it means and the nature of reality. 

I wonder, in your conversations with others, have you met anyone who has had similar dreams to your white light? 

Looking forward to hearing more,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

G’kar said:

Who
knows, maybe there are millions of other universes based on totally different
laws that we cant even comprehend while we are here but that we can experience
after this one. Lets face it, we have eternity, or maybe we exist outwith time
and space. 

This
is very good; I think this may be the case.

I
am on record [in my book] as saying this universe is only one aspect of a
dimension among a potential eternity of others.

 BTW

This
“God particle” they are looking for is suppose to be the key to understanding
what causes mass in particles

Re: The God Particle?

Zak, I’ve always been drawn to multi-verse theories.

I was reading Eli’s blog and it seemed to fit in with this discussion, so I am linking it here, with an excerpt, I hope you can all take a few moments to read the whole blog, though:

Eli’s Entry “How the body, mind and soul are related”:



Śrīmad Bhāgavatam (also known as Srimad Bhagavata, Bhagavatam, Bhagavata Purana  or Bhagwat) is an authoritative exposition of Vedic knowledge. It covers subjects like the nature of the self, the origin of the universe, what is life, what is a human being’s role in life, what is meant by cycle of birth and death, what is the relation between God and man, etc. It contains tales related to various incarnations of Lord Vishnu and mainly deals with the life and work of Lord Krishna.

One must not confuse Śrīmad Bhāgavatam with Śrīmad Bhāgavat Gita. While Gita is a summary of the entire Vedantic Knowledge compressed in just eighteen chapters totalling only 700 verses, Śrīmad Bhāgavatam is a massive work comprising of 12 sections called “Skandhas”(cantos), and a total of 18000 verses.



1. mṛtyur janmavatāḿ vīra dehena saha jāyate
   adya vābda-śatānte vā mṛtyur vai prāṇināḿ dhruvaḥ
                                                                (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.1.38)

One who takes birth is sure to die, for death is born with the body. Someone may die today and someone may die or after hundreds of years, but it is sure that  every living entity will die.


2. dehe pañcatvam āpanne dehī karmānugo ‘vaśaḥ
   dehāntaram anuprāpya prāktanaḿ tyajate vapuḥ
                                                                (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.1.39)


When the present body dies and is reduced to five elements (earth, water, fire, air and ether)  the indweller of the body (the embodied soul), automatically takes another physical body depending on his own karma. 


3. vrajaḿs tiṣṭhan padaikena yathaivaikena gacchati
   yathā tṛṇa-jalaukaivaḿ dehī karma-gatiḿ gataḥ 
                                                                (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.1.40)

Just as a person walking rests one foot on the ground and then lifts the other foot, just as a catterpiller transfers itself to one leaf and then gives up the previous one, in the same way the living entity (the embodied soul) undergoing the karmic consequence takes shelter of another body and gives up the one he had before.

Re: The God Particle?

This God Particle may exist.

Perhaps we may understand the ethics of such power and technology on our way towards such a discovery.

That is my hope.

Re: The God Particle?

It's fascinating, isn't it? By the way, should we call you pirocheetah or Harmony?

Peace,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

My name is David Pirochta

Pirocheetah symbols the passion of my existence.

Harmony is what I exist for.

: ) My preference is that we understand who we are

Re: The God Particle?

Thank you, David,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

The god particle exists. And doesn't exist.  

But it's not below us, in size or dimension– it's above us

but it's below us because it's above us

the problem is that any such particle– a 'god' particle, would be, from our perspective, a fundamental paradox.  

humans have, instead of exploring the paradox, typically decided that paradox makes things unreal.  

instead, paradox makes things, period.

Re: The God Particle?

Alan, I'll need you to unpack this further for me, please.

Love,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Nicole, I would love to!  I'm still trying to figure out how exactly to unpack that… 

Lets talk for a minute about dimension 0

The lack of Depth, Length, and Height, the lack of Time… 

There is only one thing in a space with no dimension: existence, or inexistance.  

a “particle” has no dimension.  by definition.  It's a singularity.  

A particle can only exist.  there can be nothing inside of it.  

Right?

…

Now, lets imagine the beginning of the universe.  One particle becomes: it's becoming is the beginning of the universe.  (go with me.)

It exists.  

As far as existing goes, if everything is one particle and nothing is outside of it and it is everything, can't it be said, to a degree, the particle represents: “existance is?”

or: “I am?”

Next comes the big bang…

Re: The God Particle?

Alan, my brother, I'm not wrapping my mind around this right now, but I will come back to it tomorrow. Promise. Gotta go to choir practice now.

Love ya,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Nicole, my sister, 

its quite a lot to wrap one's brain around.  I took me a solid week and tons of notebook paper, after a good two years of study of related subjects.  That's why, although I do feel a reason to bring it up, it… seems more like a seed I'm handing out than anything full-grown.  Maybe one day it will grow.  : )

Re: The God Particle?

Seeds are good! This site was originally Zaadz, as you probably know, which comes from the word for seed, which is why we have “pods” for groups. Seeds can be tremendously powerful.

I'm thinking of Jesus' words about faith as a mustard seed…

Love,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

I understand what Alan is saying because I understand.

~Harmony~

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You have handed the seed of the lotus.

PS: The lotus blossoms twice ; )

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Only twice?  Lol…

well yes, of course twice, but… also, dang it it never stops.  double blossoming into infinity, that crazy lotus.  : )

you agree, Piro?
<3

Re: The God Particle?

ah yes

Re: The God Particle?

            *
_____          ______

           l

(________________)



I am happy for my brother

Re: The God Particle?

the second blossoming will be for all beings (as if the first one wasn't)

: ) LAUGHING ON FLOOR CRYING

Let us rejoice!

Re: The God Particle?

lol… dude, these gaia people have a tendency towards skittishness from… say, our perspective… overwhelming abundance of joy will make many nervous.  : )

not that I particularly care.  I've been trying to make myself seem very calm and rational around here, and I think you're blowing my cover, I don't mind at all.  : )

rejoice

It's nice to have those around who let it out.  

come on and let it ou-out….

Re: The God Particle?

Sing out! Sing clear!

Joyously,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Everyone in science focuses on the data the facts and details and not on the reality that they are self aware life, observing all this stuff. Everything we know starts with consciousness. Then we can look at the details. We all have different opinions about the details because consciousness also has emotions or feelings about what’s right and what wrong. Not based on hard proven facts but what FEELS right. A scientist will deny it, but can he prove a philosopher wrong who says reality is a dream? No but he feels happier with his science. Science comes up with answers, with evidence and facts when religion does that we call it miracles. Science has today’s miracles (TV DVDs microwave ovens aeroplanes) so they have fair claim to being today’s religion.
But even science fall flat when asked to explain WHY the laws of physics formed. They have no idea. Why should, as Gkar says, eyes form, or ears form, or anything else if consciousness doesn’t exist and CAN’T see or hear anything worth learning to see? Sight had to exist before the eye. Our brain can see without the eye in our dreams.
Yet back to where this started the one thing we all HAVE to agree on (or be labelled mad) is we are conscious. Is it really so hard to see that everything evolved FOR and because of life? The biological evolution?
So the god particle? As a lucid dreamer, I feel I know the nature of reality. While being plugged in to other “dreamers” their ideas can stabilise this reality (contribute extra input and ideas to our lives) Stability, which is created by more than one being existing in any given reality, …this one, a dream or an astral plane (astral plane simply being a dream where more than one person is present) Reality is a sort of dream/astral plane, where billions of us are all together in the same reality. As I've said before we can ALL be so thankful for all that reality has already created before we were born. Imagine born in a coma with no sensory input and having to create your own dream reality!!
The god particle, where energy becomes matter at the quantum level. This is easy to do in a dream. A lucid dreamer can shape reality. He is the energy shaping dream matter. In this world we have evolved the laws of physics to spread that power more evenly and prevent us from dreaming alone, in a world so different from anyone else’s they wouldn’t even recognise us as life at all.
We are plugged in to this Matrix of brains or consciousness' and we must follow the rules. Science wants to take the final step in to the complete understanding of the nature of reality. To create matter from energy. (find the god particle) But WE ARE the energy, self awareness is the energy and magic is what you can do with it, and nothing is impossible.
To create matter and to understand the quantum level we could have transporters and replicators all like Star Trek. But what stops Star Trek technology from doing the things that Q in Star Trek does? (Q the all powerful being) Only the laws of physics which Scotty keeps saying “Ya canny change the laws Oh physics Captain!” Then proceeds every week to do so….
But the truth is we are our own barrier we prevent the power of magic by our disbelief and our negative emotions. The same emotions which take away lucidity and create nightmares, could create a hell, if we didn’t first learn HOW to enjoy life before having complete freedom and freewill.
So science can only create more complex laws of physics to prevent the use of this science from being abused. Like the Star Trek tecno bable guys do to explain why things don’t work the same way when you need them.
And we, …. if we can overpower all our negativity and disbelief we can do anything we want MAGIC!!! That’s the god particle. Each moment is a moment of creation where we move through the eternal now and create memories…… But when we consciously create also matter then we do matter we have found the god particle……

Re: The God Particle?

Watch this

Re: The God Particle?

or as Jack et al. say in Deep space Nine - You can't break the laws of physics, but you can bend them!

oy, another video! can you give me the short version, please?

Re: The God Particle?

I don't think there is a short version its a film/documentary almost as good as the Matrix

Re: The God Particle?

dailyplanit and Nicole,

The inclusion of this video fits so well with a personal story and fits so nicely into the God particle thingy.  However, it is a story about my son's journey that I was part of (oh what an honor that was).  Anyhow's, my son was 15.  He had, and has, a history of not being able to sleep at night (started the second week of his air breathing life).  Anyhows, one of these nights, he felt “compelled” to write something down.  He said that while he was washing his hands and looking in the mirror at himself, he realized something about the nature of reality.  He said it just hit his brain like a bang.  So, he wrote it all down.  When I was up the next morning, he showed it to me.  I read it and asked what he thought it was about, where did it fit in the context of mythical, mystical, philosophical.  He said he didn't know it just came to him as if he had known it all along and just had never tapped into it being in his brain as he didn't know it was in his brain.  He was a bit confused by the experience and where the stuff he wrote came from.  He was after all fifteen.

At the time he was taking Philosophy.  I suggested that he show it to his teacher and ask her what she thought about it.  She gave it back to him the next day with a note.  She said it sounded like quantum physics to her.  As neither of us had heard of quantum physics, I looked it up on the Internet.  He was blown away by what he read because what he had written did fit into quantum theory.  Okay, so where did this skrt chasing, albeit historically philosphical, kid get information that was in essence a translation of quantum physics as it applies to the nature of reality to a human being as compared to the nature of reality in universal terms of eternity from the beginning of time to the end of time of which there is no such thing?  (Basically, if I understood it correctly, this is what his paper was saying and applying to our understanding of everyday life and experience). 

This very same day, that evening, we went to rent a DVD.  What did we find?  The DVD of the very same movie dailyplanit linked in his post.  So, what I am trying to get to is, of course there is a God particle.  It leads us to the places within ourselves that contribute to our growth as God creatures in the monkey bodies we pocess.  Actually, many of us quite possibly are an amalgamation of many types of spirit beings in one monkey body.  It is all about experience–that is it.  Observations in the mind of what occurs in the physical in a myriad of combinations manifested in billions of monkey bodies feeding information about experience in this time and place with the help and guidance of our Father, our Creator.  When looked at from this perspective, even reading the Bible takes on a whole new light, Old and New Testament.  The thing is that makes it all the more difficult, is that I suspect that some of the folks here, while all having a spark of divinity within them, are more monkey than others.  Please don't think I am putting down monkeys or being spiritual snobby here.  It only makes the experience more spiritual muscle building.  The more you have to “tuned in” due to the cirucumstances you find yourself in, the more guidance, the more wisdom, the more understanding you bring into your life and to the overall conciousnes of man.  Boy my spelling is bad.  So, somehow my son was able to tap into this in himself or of himself or around himself and once he tapped into it, he came upon the DVD to help put it into a framework.  How it will aid in his understanding of himself and life is yet to be seen.  The boy is a very complicated being to say the least.  The God particle at work!  He pressed some kind of button and it was put to work at guiding him, giving him what he needed for himself and the nature of his contribution perhaps to the rest of the monkeys.  It is all a very circular thing it seems. 

Re: The God Particle?

Hello! Good to “see” you again.

That is a really amazing story, Opening. What you say also brings to mind for me Jung and the collective unconscious

Hugs,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

I haven't read all of the posts on here yet, so I don't know everything that has already been said here. So I'm just going to reply to your original post :)

Science, in my opinion, is a reflection to religion. Afterall, science was born in the times when the church was the main driving force in a community. The church answered many spiritual questions for people, but could not explain the basic functions of nature. So science was “sent out” into the world to find the answers of “why are we here and why does the world work the way it does?”.

Something we need to understand about science- it's basic structure arose from a community of church followers- and the key term in religion is “faith”- science's main principles rely on ideas that are “faith based”. In the same way religion uses faith of god and god's “ways of doing business” to support religious text (as in, there is no solid proof of god, but we maintain a faith that god exists), science uses a faith that “gravity” and “mass” exist.

Gravity and mass are two basic principles that make science work. Science uses these formulas to work out other formulas (e=mc(squared) means energy=MASS times the speed of light squared). However, there is no explanaition for what exactly gravity and mass are. There are no formulas, science has no solid proof these even exist, so they simply says, “we must have faith that these exist in order for everything else to work right”.

I think this fact has held science back because the whole structure is based on something that may not even exist in the way science thinks it does. What if the whole idea of gravity is slightly off? What would happen to all other scientific “facts” that have been built up upon this concept?

This may be where scientific proof of consciousness exists- in the basic concepts we have yet to find a definition for.

Quamtam physics has even more interesting phenomena that can't be explained. The term may sound scary (haha), but maybe you should look into it if you're interested in scientific studies that explore consciousness. They don't specifically say quantam physics is the study of consciousness, but their discoveries are beginning to break our current concepts of how the world works.

A few examples from Quantam Physics experiments:
-in one experiment- particles acted one way when something (like a camera) was observing them, but acted completely different when no one was there to watch what they were doing. As if the particle KNEW someone was observing it and acted the way the observer expected it to act.

-particles that have been “linked” and are like partners of each other are seperated by a large distance. Then something is done to change one particle. You would think the change would apply to just the one that was changed. But INSTANTLY, it's partner particle reflects the change- as if they communicated with each other faster than the speed of light even though they were a huge distance apart (and right now, science says nothing can travel faster than the speed of light).

There is another experiment I remember where they couldn't predict how a photon (light particle) passed through a tube. It either passed through or it didn't- and our current concept of science says that everything is supposed to act a certain way with a certain predictable order. But more and more they are finding instances where particles are acting unpredictable, as if they are choosing what to do or as if we are influencing how they act.

Re: The God Particle?

Hi! Welcome to our discussions.

You bring up an interesting point about the faith aspect of science.

This blog here states uncategorically that science is not based on faith, and then says this:

The scientific method makes one assumption, and one assumption only: the Universe obeys a set of rules. That’s it. There is one corollary, and that is that if the Universe follows these rules, then those rules can be deduced by observing the way Universe behaves. This follows naturally; if it obeys the rules, then the rules must be revealed by that behavior.


Well, that is quite an assumption! As you said, it includes ideas about the nature of gravity and mass, the laws of physics, etc which we are discovering are not quite as simple as Newton thought. 


It will be interesting to see what quantum and post-quantum physics come up with!

Re: The God Particle?

The “beliefs” we have in how mass and gravity work, the foundations of physics, must be accurate or else we could not get a spaceship off the ground, into space, hang out in space a while, and get it back to the ground safely.  Science is also basically a field where the way of things is observed and conclusions drawn based on what is observed.  If we throw something in the air, it falls to the ground.  The rate of speed that it falls to the ground can be measured through observation.  This tells us something about both mass and gravity.  A mathematical formula can be drawn that depicts what occured.  The why it occured does not have to be known to know that it occured.  I think that is where you get to the principal of we believe, have faith, that our conclusions are correct.  What is observed and depicted with numbers.  

For me, faith in the Father, a Creator, is likewise observable, not depicted in numbers but in “feelings” invoked, the sensing of something, the “knowing” that I am not alone.  All of this is observable.  Jesus was observed on the cross dying in great pain and says “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”.  A creature, an animal, a man, could not display such strength in the face of so much heartache and pain were there not something “higher” within him, around him, perserving that which cannot be destroyed, if there was nothing there sustaining the tie to a higher being within him. 

Everyday doctors witness as that which should not happen happens and people on the brink of death come back.  The left ventricle of my heart was destroyed by a flu.  I was pretty upset with the whole situation as I was in my late thirties and a single mother of an eight year old.  I said “God why did this happen to me? I have loved you”  I received a response, a voice in my head.  The words “We did not destroy your heart.  The flu did.  We saved you.  Now, be quiet and wait and all will be well.”  Or, something to that effect.  Within a month in a half, my heart was coming back.  I was supposed to have to have a heart transplant.  The left ventricle of my heart regenerated.  From a dried up looking prune of a thing, it became healthy again.  This was observable.  

The doctors didn't understand it but said that it wasn't the first time they couldn't explain something and just said, you will be okay.   That was over ten years ago.  No more heart attacks and I smoke.  This is God (not the smoking.).  This is observable.  Fully understandable, no.  But, fully observable. 

I was told I would be okay by a “voice” when doctors said I would probably have to have a transplant within a very short period of time.  When that time was up, voila, my heart had regenerated when human hearts aren't supposed to be able to regenerate.  Somewhere in my file at the hospital, there are pictures of my heart before and after the actions of God took over.  An intelligence, not my own, told me I was okay when I was in fear.  So why folks say that you can't prove there is a God is not quite understandable to me.  I think it is more accurate to say that man can't prove it.  However, God proves His existence everyday all over the world in many, many big and small ways.

 

Re: The God Particle?

Opening, that's very interesting - and yet we don't argue with gravity or other “scientific facts”, but atheists can always come up with other more plausible (to them) explanations for what seems obvious to theists as God's work.

That's what faith does - whether faith in God or not in God. It just makes sense to you one way or another, which is why arguments over the existence of God are so futile.

Love,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Yes, I understand observing something and reacting to it, or observing something again and again and then making it into a fact when it behaves the same way.

So it makes sense that something must be working if we observe something, make a mathematical formula, then use that information to build rocket ships or whatever.

And here's a wacky idea: what if the way the world “works” only works that way because the particles reorganize themselves to fit into OUR formulas and concepts?

So that's why I say if we actually understood what mass and gravity were, maybe we would really understand our world- and then we'd be doing more than flying rockets, maybe we'd be the ones flying! When we observed “I throw this apple up and it falls to the ground” and then we lept head-first into creating science before we even understood it's basic terms, maybe the world accomodated us so we could continue to explore and “advance”.

If people debate god's existence, I wonder why they don't debate science more. You can tell a person anything and if you're convincing enough, they will believe everything you say is the ultimate truth without even giving it a second thought.

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“And here's a wacky idea: what if the way the world “works” only works that way because the particles reorganize themselves to fit into OUR formulas and concepts?”

I love this idea of your's.  It reminds me of the movie “What dreams may come” with Robin Williams.  Also, walking on water is an example of what you are talking about.  It would be very, very cool indeed if we were to discover that indeed all is possible.  But, if you recall in the Bible the man that became so enamoured of his own “power” that he thought that he could fly.  He believed this so much that he jumped off of a tower to his death.  The point of this Biblical story, and if you tie it into the story of walking on water, is that faith in God is what parts the waters.   It is God, acting in us, that makes it happen.  In short, faith in a power beyond the physical and beyond what is seen with the eyes.  That is what makes Quantum physics so fascinating.  What if it is faith that moves these particles–Faith that it can be done and Faith that it will be done for us.   I have believed for a long time that science and God go hand in hand.  To know what is truly possible, to get full use, if you will, of what has been created and is at our disposal, one must invoke the power of God.  The power of God within us, around us, we live in God, we are of God.  If only I could harnass a total acceptance of this, then maybe I could also walk on water.  If I fully evovle myself in an acceptance of all that I am–harness the power of me being in God and God being in me.  I know this is true.  I just don't just be it.  Why?  Hecky if I know. 

Re: The God Particle?

I know what you mean about the Robin Williams movie, Opening, the way that the people made their own versions of heavens by what they thought and wanted.

But it's hard to reconcile with our experience. 

I don't remember that story you are referring to from the Bible about someone believing he could fly so he jumped off a tower and died. But the exploration of faith in the story of Jesus walking on the water, and Peter starting to walk but faltering, is an interesting one. God acting in us, but not without something very active on our part. What is the faith that moves mountains, then?

Love,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

I think once we're able to “tip” the scales, it will be easier for us to open up and remember the things we have forgotten. It's easy to say, “Have faith and it will happen.” and I've heard that if you had a true belief that something would happen- like I stand in front of a lake and believe with every part of myself that I could walk on water- it will happen.

But I believe it takes a certain level of energy to attain this. Have you ever tried to “go against” the flow in our world? For example (a silly example!)- have you ever been at a birthday party and they're passing out cake and you're the one person who says, “No thanks. I don't want any cake”? What happens? “Oh, c'mon! Have some cake!” “Yeah, it's a celebration. Just eat some cake!” These droves of people will try to pressure you into eating cake.

Now imagine your a person that walks around all the time in our fear-based world saying, “Have faith and you're life will work out!” You would be bombarded by comments like: “No, it doesn't work that way.” “Maybe I'm getting my pay-back from karma.” “Life sucks. And then you die.”

Having ultimate faith and evolving yourself to harness the power we all have to create anything and everything is a HUGE undertaking when the fear-based thoughts of the majority of ALL humans on the whole planet is flowing in an opposite direction. It can be done, but sometimes it takes so much power we end up reincarnating thousands of times to try again. And in the end we realize it was much simplier than we had thought it would be.

We have patterns woven into our minds from the moment we're born- little voices from the eras of human development that tell us how the world should work, how we should act, and what happens to us if we don't act that way. I call it “punishment-syndrome”.

One day we'll tip the scales and stop being so afraid of letting ourselves evolve.

Re: The God Particle?

It's true, it is very hard to resist that kind of social pressure - how often do we cut loose and really do something different, like start dancing in the middle of a sidewalk or break out into song in an elevator? :)

So, no wonder it is hard to imagine walking on water or moving a mountain.

I guess it's why it was the children who evolved to previously unimagined levels in Childhood's End (by Arthur C. Clarke) and why many believe it will be the indigo and crystal children who will change everything - we are too stodgy.

Re: The God Particle?

One day is either today or it's as meaningless a concept as “living for tomorrow”– when all we ever do is sail through the ever-shifting present.

Not saying this to chastise, but encourage.  Conscious evolution's a gas!  (although admittedly sometimes it gets a bit exhausting.)

<3
A

Re: The God Particle?

Conscious evolution, yes, that could be exhausting :) but I'm glad you're enjoying it!

Hugs,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

The story is in the Old Testament.  It was one of the first that I learned as a child.  I can't remember where it is in there.  I think it is where the saying “pride comes before a fall” came from.  But then, there are a number of scriptures that have this lesson in them.  I was taught that it meant that we can do nothing without God's blessing and we get that by recognizing that He is the source of all.  On our own, we are little more than animals.  I will look for it.  The guy was a King or something and he had gotten full of himself and thought that he should be a God and so should be able to fly, or something like that.  So, he climbed up this tower or building and jumped and fell to his death.  It was in this children's Bible that we had.  I remember the drawing of him standing out and looking down from the tower before he jumped.  I am glad we didn't get these stories at bed time. 

Re: The God Particle?

Not a cheerful bedtime story, for sure!

Re: The God Particle?

I really relate to Casspoe's comments regarding our fear based existence.  I don't know how many of your are familiar with the term empath.  Psychologist call it an extra sensitive person.  Anyhows, I, and many others, are born into this world being extra sensitive to everything around us.  I remember when I was around four or five picking up that adults were very fear based.  I couldn't understand it.  To me, all there was was the sky and birds, nature and a sense of love in this invisible support system that I felt.  The feeling of it was communicating with it.  Like a feather stroking your face.  So, why the fear?  I would know when one adult was lying to another because I could pick up their emotions.  I would ask “Why are you lying?  You really feel blah, blah”.  I did this until my Dad told me to cut it out and not confront adults in that manner.  Hey, they may have been adults, but they were doing what I was told not to do.  I digress.

Thinking “have faith and it will all work out” kind of perpetuates the fear because it implies that there is something to be overcome.  If, and we are, we are walking around in God, there is nothing to overcome.  Where we get trapped is in the need to survive based on sweat–emotional and physical.  Our whole society is based on a system of rewards and the system is not balanced or fair.  This isn't how God works even though traditional religion tells us this.  There is no system of rewards.  Everything we need is just there.  But, we think we have to do something to deserve it.  So, the slightest bit of insecurity in our minds and hearts will create this sense of not deserving.  This is what Jesus was trying to get folks to see through his miracles.  He didn't bring food or water or money.  What he needed was just there.  Maybe part of the key is wanting no more than you need, making as little of a footprint on the Earth as possible. 

The manner in which our institutions and governments are set up, with the exception of the remaining tribal communities, make life like this impossible, unless you go out into the wild and live off of the land removing yourself from the main stream.  But, then, the main stream will intrude and you have to go deeper and deeper into the woods.  We can do this without leaving the main stream by tapping deeper and deeper into ourselves and allowing the purity of ourselves, our essense, the part of us that was what I felt when I was a kid, be that which guides us and being fearless in our doing so.  “Be in this world but not of it.”  This saying sums up the use of the power Casspoe spoke of. 

There is a very strong part of me that still is able to do this.  There is a part of me that is what you might call drunk with the world.  By this I mean, I get overwhelmed and sucked into the fear factor.  Drunk because it takes on physical manifestations like heart palpitations and tears and wailing and ringing of my hands and gnasing of my teeth.  I have lots of folks that say, just as my Dad did, you can't go around using only your senses to survive.  It wont work because the rest of the world is moving at a different rate of speed and you are going to get knocked off of your path or something to that extent.   So far, my ability to harness the power in me is not greater than the power the world has over me.  I not only have I been knocked off the path, I am at times lying to the side in the fetal position and the occasional passer-by kicks me in the side.  Maybe this is the only way to bring it forward in me, not spiritual muscle but reliance on all that I am.

Alan, the comment you made about the ever changing present was what my son wrote about in that paper of his.  How by the time we perceive something in the “present”, it is already the past and how and why this is a factor in our lives.  Then, he got some type of math formula and that is when he decided to let this type of thinking lay.  He gets overwhelmed with numbers in the sense that he becomes obssessed with the possiblities of what they are telling him.  Ever see the movie pi?  Well, he saw himself in that movie and determined he liked chasing girls more than going “nutso” with numbers.  I try to tell him he just has to find one girl and the right girl.

Re: The God Particle?

Some movies are just what we need to help us see something, so I guess Pi was like that for your son. 

Yes, there is a lot of fear out there, and it must have been very challenging for you to be a child and know all of that, and not to be able to speak it.

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The thing is with my son is that chasing numbers is a huge core of who he is.  He was adding three digit numbers using his fingers in some kind of calculator type way when he was three.  When he stopped his natural curiosity so as not to be seen as a curiosity, he got a bit lost.  He is still trying to find himself.  The thing is, he is looking outside of himself, from my observations, instead of inside, because what he finds inside doesn't fit the common world definition of “normal”.  Who wants to fit that?  Plus, there are many places in this world where chasing numbers is far more normal and sensible than anything else.  He wants to be part of the Abrocombe and Fitch world.  He looks the A&F part, and, so thinks that is who he is.  I tried to tell him, but he tells me that I am trying to define him.  Nope, trying to help him find himself.  If he doesn't want to pursue science and numbers it is okay with me.  I just wish he wasn't pursuing false images that he knows to be false.  Young people!  I tell ya!  He was always free to just be his own quirky self with me.  His Dad didn't like it so much.  The thing is, his Dad saw a great deal of himself in our son.  How do you raise a kid to believe what he doesn't see and push aside the common that he does see so that he can be truly free?  How do you help them find their power?  You can't.  You just have to wait them out and pray they will find their way home. 

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I've always told my kids normal is over-rated, too, and they have responded by becoming as unique as your son, in their own way…

My eldest is the math geek in the family. She has just finished her first degree and will be starting her masters in the fall. 

My son is having a harder time finding his way. He finished his industrial machining course in the early spring but then with the downturn has not yet found work. He is quite discouraged.

  How do you raise a kid to believe what he doesn't see and push aside the common that he does see so that he can be truly free?  How do you help them find their power?


You're right, it's a lot of standing by patiently, hoping and praying for the best. It's hard being a parent.

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With children that have their own brand of looking at things and that way also includes brushing any contribution you may have in helping them work it out aside.  For instance, with the being normal thing, I asked him about this when he first showed signs of wanting to run with the pack.  His answer “You have to swim with the fishes to learn the ocean”.  I said, okay, but you may come back here thinking that you are a guppy (sp?)  after getting lost.  His response “Mom, don't be obtuse”.  Where did a five year old get that word?  Anyway, his God particle is a sparkling diamond where ever in him it is located.  I just hope he finds it again.  I have stopped giving advice.  If you give him something to push against, he will push.  My God particle lit this up in my head just the other day. 

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What a fascinating kid!

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Maybe I have some insight into this- or maybe what I'll say won't really be anything you can utilize. But I felt I should respond to something (to Nicole and Opening), so here goes!

As someone who has come out of being a child/teenager fairly recently, I can say that when they're ready to “find themselves” and/or live their life with more of their own essence, it will happen. And we have to be careful that by giving advice we're not trying to force our beliefs on someone else.

My mother was very much into implying to me that I needed to act a certain way. Instead of trying to understand me at my level, and offering me advice at my level, she pushed and tried to pass on things to me that I wasn't able to “get” at my level of development. I had issues with school and would miss months at a time, and she would tell me, “You need to graduate. You're supposed to be going to school at your age. You'll regret this”. Could I understand that at the time? No, because teenagers struggle to deal with the energy around them that is still in childhood and their need to pull in more mature energy. I had to figure myself out and figure out who I was in comparisson with my family and society- the least of my concerns was school.

Can I understand now what was told to me then? Yes, because I graduated but regret having missed so much of my high school experience.

So any type of pushing will end up like you said Opening- he will push back! And let me say that having someone push against you during a huge developmental transion is tiring!

Try looking at the world from his level. You've experienced more than he has, so you have more wisdom- but he may not be able or ready to take in that wisdom in his current state. So what wisdom can we pass on that our children's developingminds would be able to take in? Simplicity- something that can be given and show immediate results- that can be taken from information and acted upon to create wisdom. Young people do NOT think long-term! haha

Try asking questions. I found that by asking questions, you can actually guide someone to figure something out (something that becomes their own unique answer). They won't understand any other way unless they “find” the answer themselves- and someone can be a sort of quide. And all you do is ask questions! “So what do you think of the world?” “Really? How does that relate to you and your situation?” “What would happen if you said something to him/her? Would it make you feel relieved?”

And if they ask, “Well, what do you think?” That is the time to offer advice, because you've engaged them and now they will be receptive to new information. Then they will be the ones to decided what to do with that information- how to use it.

Two of the hardest states to live in are: unconditional love for everyone and everything, and non-expectation. We are constantly expecting certain things to occur and expecting others to act a certain way or do what we think is “right” or what WE think is best for them.

What if we stopped desiring someone to have a “purposeful” life and follow a path that worked for us? Everyone would be happy! Perhaps you try to pass spiritual ideals onto a child, but that soul hasn't come into this world to follow a heavy spiritual path. Maybe in a past life they were a monk and spent their whole life in meditation and all they want to do in this life is party! They want to have lots of friends, wear hip clothes, and have a blast until they're 85.

In our limited perspective, we can only know what WE as individuals want and what our paths and options are for this life. We have no idea what others are trying to accomplish on a soul-level. We have a fascination with trying to influence others to behave in certain ways, but I feel it's like saying to a being with more insight than us (a soul/a higher self), “Hey! You don't know what you're doing! Look how you're handling this life, you fool!”

Do we really want to speak to souls that way?

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Casspoe,

Thank you so very much for your points.  You are very much correct with the points you make regarding parenting.  I do want to point out that I seldom  never, ever called him a fool or any such name.  That kid is a light and I always knew it, and know it now.  It isn't pride saying this.  I am traditonal type of mother.  But, in this, I am a very spritual being.  So, when I look at him, I see him the human and him the spirit.  There were times when I would have to say to myself, that I may see him or feel that he is my equal, but to raise him as a parent, I can't let him see that I see him that way.  This kid was telling me when he was three how I was looking at the world wrong and causing myself undue anquish.  Then, he gets to be five and decides to try out being Potsy (from Happy Days).  I let him do it.  I just also would say, why don't you try this or that.  I would give him ideas, not declarations.  He finds my giving him ideas an imposition.  I didn't follow a straight path myself.  I didn't like my dad telling me I was a fool.  So, I didn't want to saddle my son with that type of thing. 

For the sake of all mothers out there, I want to explain something.  Some of us have it to a greater extent than others; but, I bet we all have mother's intuition to some extent.  This is how I got onto the subject of my son. I think mother's intuition is an example of the God particle.  Only, it is the Mom particle. 

We can feel what is going on in our kids even when they are hundreds of miles from us.  My son ended up having something horrible happen to him and I had to send him away for his safety.  I sent him back to live with his Dad thousands of miles away.  My son decided that it was my fault that it happened because I had moved him to that city years before.  He was angry with me.  He didn't talk to me for over a couple of months.  One day I was just waking up and I saw what you might call an apparrition of my son as a toddler (back in the days when he liked me) come running into the room and jump onto the bed exclaiming “Mommy”.  Five minutes later the phone rang and it was him.  

If he is awake and worrying at night, I feel it.  If he is happy, I feel it.  If he is feeling really overwhelmed, I feel it. There appears to be a GPS device in him that registers this stuff with me.  So, when Moms intrude a bit more than their kids want, it is because they have direct knowledge of what is going on with their kids.  They communicate with us even when they don't know they are doing it.  The night before he crawled out of that window, I knew he had this dark cloud following him around. I told him it would be best if he were in the house early every day.  He didn't listen. 

I have to learn to better accept, just like our Father accepts, that my son has free will and will get himself into all kinds of stuff if he chooses.  They are his emotions, his trials and tribulations.  While I can feel some of it, I have to let him own it an not think that because I feel it, it is mine to deal with.  I am getting better.  So, I figure, if there is something in my son that registers him with me and it can be felt and results (like the phone ringing) seen, then it is more than probable, and very logical to assume and act from a knowledge of, that there is a God particle.  We know how to use it even when we don't realize we are using it just like my son doesn't realize that I am receiving messages from him.  God is with us always–in the physical and the spiritual. 

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These are excellent observations, casspoe, I think you're spot on.

Opening, I hear you about the Mom particle :) I try to resist the intruding thing, but it's deeply ingrained and sometimes when I think I'm not being intrusive I get yelled at, so … kids can be very sensitive about the Mom factor. I still feel that way about my Mom at times, and I'm 44. :)

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Part of the problem is that I didn't have a Mom.  So, I didn't have that type of attention, other than what came from my Dad.  While he was intuitive, I think it may have been of a different flavor sort to speak.  So, I gave to my son what I fantacized about having.  Have you seen that commercial for foster children that says if you kids say you get on their nerves, there are lots of foster kids that would love to put up with you?  That type of thing.  I only imagined the good parts of it, total acceptance and lots and lots of attention.  In actuality, it may not have been anything like this between my mother and I if she had been around. 

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Oh, I see. Yes, that would make a tremendous difference. I, on the other hand, grew up without a dad.

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i'm just one of those people that are kind of questioning the whole God comcept. 
some say that God made the whole earth and sacraficed himself on the cross to save us… 
well if god mad the world then how did the people that put him on the cross get there and what made God so special that he had all this power to make a whole planet.
and what happened to the people that put him on the cross.??
and i thought that Adem and Eve where the first people that God created….?
im just really lost here becasue i want to belive in god becasue that is my familys religon but if i say i dont my mom is going to be super mad at me but i just think that i have the fredom to belive in what ever i belive…… right?
im only 13( but im going to be 14 next week!) but i atleas have a say in what i can  belive in…….
and i just think that this so called God couldnt have done it him/her self and how do we even know if God is a guy or a girl i just think that is kind of sexist that people automatically think God is a guy women are very powerful when it come to the soul too.
anyway i just think he or she couldnt have one it him/herself
i think he/she had help help from the godessess of the elements.
and some one had to create God he or she couldnt have just poped up out of no where………
 god had to have come from somewhere and if god was the first person to walk the earth 
how do you explain the cross sacrafice….
god didnt just nail him/her self on that cross some one had to have done it….
i just think that the godessess of the elements had to help him or her (god)
can some one please reply we can discus….
(p.s i know i may have a lot of spelling errors sorry)

Re: The God Particle?

welcome to our discussion.

You are right, if God is a limited being we can understand, God couldn't do all that. So God would have to be way beyond things like male or female, etc.

You do have the freedom to believe as you wish. Your family may not be happy with that, but it is the truth. 

About the crucifixion - according to the traditional Christian view it wasn't an accident or mistake but part of the plan of salvation. So people crucified Jesus but it was part of the will of God.

Does that help at all?

Peace,

Nicole

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Mindlesslullaby,
Religion is not God.  Man made religion.  God made man including you.  You are questioning and wondering “how could it all be possible?”.   You say your parents would be angry if you do not accept their religion.  Accepting a religion is not the same thing as accepting God.  You don't have to accept anything.  God is in you just like your heart and your liver.  Your questions are the rumblings of you awakening to this light within you and wondering what it is all about. 
One night when the sky is clear, go outside in the dark and look up at the stars.  Close your eyes and say to yourself or outloud “God I want to feel you in me”.  Then open you eyes looking at the heavens and slowly breathe in through your nose and out through you mouth.  If you feel something around you, if you feel a power embrace you, if you feel in your heart something stirring, that will be the power of God enfolding you.  It can be a bit because it seems to come from no where, a wave washing over you.
God is not like a character in a story book.  I know that is how he was depicted to me.  When Moses asked God who he was or what he was to be called, God said according to the modern Bible “I am”.  According to a true translation of the original words, God said “I am whatever I choose to Be”.  God has chosen to be you, to be me, to be all men walking the Earth.  You can come alive in God without following a religion.  Religion is for introducing us to the concept of our Father.  Finding God, following God, loving God, recognizing his love for you, is knowing God is in you as you are his divine creation. 
You ask about Adam and Eve.  If religion was God, how is it that God was in the Garden of Eden?  What religion were Adam and Eve?  If believing the religious teachings of your parents is difficult for you and you truly want to know God, then seek God, not religion.  He will awaken your heart to his presence.  Be patient, be loving, and respect your parents whether you accept religion of one kind or another or not.  Do not tell them they are wrong in what they believe.  They are working that out with God themselves.  However, they opened your heart to the wonderous love of our heavenly Father.   For this you should always be grateful and show gratitude. 
If it helps, think of God as a power, as a mathematical equation, as a soft breeze on your face, as the joy you feel in your heart each time you are happy.  You are part of God.  You experience with God as you live your life.  Be at peace for you are on your way and, in this, he is very pleased with you.  I found God when I was a bit younger than you.  I found him not in church but in feeling him.  I felt something around me which brought the feeling of love within me.  I pray that you feel this warm embrace  soon.  Peace be with you and blessings to you.

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Opening, what a wonderful answer! You inspire me so,

Namaste,

Nicole

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Also, you asked about the cross.  Okay, this is it as I understand it.  We, all of creation, all of man, all of everything is One.  God created man as an animal as he did all other animals.  However, in man he placed a divine spark.  Why did he do this?  So, that God could experience himself (as us) in the physical, material world Earth.  What is experienced by one person is experienced by us all.  There is even a scientific theory called string theory which suggests that we are all tied to a universal conciousness.
So, if God wanted man to more fully understand his love and forgiveness, to know him more intimately, what better way than to have a being endowed with His spark as a living part of himself with complete rememberence of his true Father?   When Jesus went to the cross, he knew that while he would experience pain and heartache in the physical material world, he could not be really harmed for he knew that his soul was eternal.  He also knew that, in order to better demonstrate the possibilities that man has at his command, he had to die and come back and who himself to his followers so that they could go out and tell others what God, who God, really is.  Nothing, nothing in this world can truly touch you if you have faith.  Nothing, nothing in this world can limit you if you have true faith.  When he sacrificed his life in the physical world on the cross, it was possible for man to realize the spirit of God was within them.  Because he knew it, the whole of man knew it.  Because he understood that he could rise again and nothing could touch him, the whole of man knew it.  This knowledge is in you and you just have to awaken to it.  It is in you because as Jesus experienced it, all of man experienced it.  We just have to open ourselves to that spark in us. 
As far as what happened to the people that put him on the cross, they were forgiven.  Remember he asked that God forgive them for they did not know what they were doing?  They did not realize that they were killing the son of God.  As in modern days, many men die at the hands of others because those killing others do not understand the full impact of their actions or the reasons for their actions.  This is where the phrase “lost souls” comes from.  They are lost living a life of illusion in a world that they think gives them reason to fear and so out of fear, they kill.  The reality is what Jesus taught by dying on the cross and rising to be with us again.  There is nothing to fear.  God is with you in all ways always.  You just have to wake up to this reality. 

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I know that I am going on and on, but you are young and I don't want to confuse you or cause you to misunderstand anything.
The explanations that I gave you are my understanding of it all.  When I taught my son about God, I explained this to him as well.  I also explained that his most important thing to do in life was to work out a relationship with God.  Through this relationship, you will come to understand things in a way that serves God better than anything that I or any other human being could explain.  You seem to be on your way there.  Without questions, you can not know God.  So, it is right to ask.  When you pray, you can also ask for understanding.  Learning to meditate helps as well.  It also will help you to stay at peace inside and this will help you handle whatever you face in life, especially tests in school.

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I completely disagree with u cause your therory is completely messed up, Scientists and whoever thinks there is no GOD you are stupid, Do u really think that a worm is going to evolve in a human? if u do your stupid, cause u know when u die GOD decides where u go not humans, He decides if u go to heaven or hell, He decides the weather, He created human and animal and this earth with his 2 hands… Scientists and even u can say that everything just evolved in thin air, but i am not made from no monkey, and i know that there is a GOD and he is coming back someday, and the trumpet is gonna sound and all these scientists and even other people that where trying to prove there is no GOD there gonna find that there is a GOD that controls everything, Even where they go for eternity and that means heven or hell so u know keep saying what your saying and beleiveinbg there is no God cause u know where u are going to be is in a hot flamy hell… GOD is real, and there is just one question i have for u prove 1 thing in the bible that is not true/ or happened?

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Clumsy,
I am not sure if you are addressing me or someone else with your comments.  However,  please do consider something whenever you address someone, whether that person is a believer or not, if you do believe in God, then you must understand that everyone, everything is part of His creation and greatly loved by Him no matter what their beliefs.  Therefore, do you think that He would want you to address them in a manner that is disrespectful?  You say that God judges all.  Yet, you take it upon yourself to say where they will end up after life should they not believe. 
No one is trying to prove that God does not exist.  Keep God in your heart and you will have no reason to be angered over those that do not believe in Him.  God really doesn't need to be defended now does He?

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No, Opening, God is not in need of any defense. Well said.

Clumsy, we don't have a lot of rules around here in the God Pod, but the basic one is simply respect others. We all have different beliefs and opinions. What seems stupid to you may be very precious to someone else and vice versa. 

Jesus said: “Do to others as you would have them do to you”

“Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind, and love your neighbour as yourself”

Peter said: “But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.”


I recommend this blog to you:


 http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/08/what-part-of-gentleness-and-respect-dont-you-we-understand/

I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

Love,

Nicole

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As they say:
Speak to people according to their level of understanding

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Good point, Zak, thank you,

Nicole

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Nicole brought it to my attention that GOD wouldn't approve of my behaviour cause christians are not suppose to act like i did and but u know it just plainly irritates me what people have to say bad about my GOD or just simply say that man did all this earth and created the humans, it is not true but u all have your opoions and i have mine i should have not lashed out like that but i get very protective of my GOD he has done so much and i just love him, so i sincerely apoligize to you all that i was rude to, but do not post stuff saying that he is not real or man created it all, or it all just did it self cause I have my own opoion, if you all would like to change or give it a chance i go to First Pentacostal Church and we have live broadcasting and a site so if u would like to go to fpcwichita.org GOD Bless You!

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Thank you so much for coming here to apologise. I understand that it can be painful to read opinions that clash so harshly with your beliefs. 

Blessings,

Nicole

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You Know i thought about it and you know how u siad GOD would not approve of my behavour well he defently would not approve of the group people and u cause u guys are saying he is not real, and a another thing if you non-beleivers and athesists say your opions and beleifs a christian can to and i can speak my opions and belifs like u all do so u and your fellow mates are just as wrong so do not go tell me im wrong when u and your fellow mates cant admit u guys are wrong, and also nicole if u do not beleive in him why use bible veres? 

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I replied to this yesterday but can't find my reply now, so let me try again.

I am a Christian, I believe in God,though not in the same way as you. There is much truth in the Bible that has inspired me throughout my life including the verses I quoted.

Love to you,

Nicole

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Clumsy,
If you read all of the posts carefully, you will find that most of them speak of God's existence as real and tangible.  It is wonderful that you love God so much.  Yet, God wants you to love everyone, the believers and the non-believers, those of other religions and faiths, as much as those that think and believe as you do.  Even within Christianity there are many different ways of looking at God.  God has established on Earth many faiths and ways to be perceived.  If you studied other religions, not for the sake of accepting the faith, but from a scholarly perspective, as God wants us to seek knowledge and understanding of each other as well, you would see that all faiths are quite similiar. 
I love God.  I know God.  God has moved mightily in my life.  I am blessed as he woke me, I did not seek him.  He found me and said “wake up”.  In this waking I was able to see that God is so much more than what man can contemplate.  So, I do not seek to define God.  I seek to help in His efforts to define me.  In this I understand how man fools himself when he beleives he knows the truth about God and has that truth contained in one religion, one way of viewing God.  Therefore, we should not judge.  This is quite clearly stated in the Bible. 
This thread, this discussion, is about the possibility that each human being contains a piece of God within him that could be found and studied as we do DNA, as we do molecules, as we do any form of scientific study.  As our Father, as we are made in His image, it is quite possible that within out bodies is a sort of GPS device, a place in our brains, an area in our hearts, a spot on our solar plexes, that when activated through concentration, will bring us before the feet of our Lord.  Science has yet to find it, but I believe it is there. 
From your posts, I get the impression that you do not understand the discussion completely.  For, if you did, you would not say that we are all unbelievers.  You would see that many of us are believers and many of us are seekers.  And, all of us are in awe of the power of our universe and the possibilities that are contained within it.  Peace and may God bless your spirit with joy and love for all of His children.

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Clumsy,
I have to ask, in the beginning, when God was creating, where was religion?  What religion were Adam and Eve?  You confuse religion with God.  Religion is man made.  So, to put your religion above a knowing of God as God, is not necessarily being Godly. 

I am not questioning the rightness of your religion.  What I am saying is that religion is man's interpertation of God's word.  What did Jesus say to the disciples when they kept going back to the Word in the Old Testament?  He asked them why they worried so much about the words spoken by dead men on paper when they had the living Word before them.  Jesus also said that he would be with us all ways, to just call on him.  Religion can provide instruction.  It does not fully define God as God as All and we can't even begin to understand or comtemplate the all that is the ALL.  Our minds are too small.   Religion is our search for God, to define what God is and how God would have us live.  It does not give God to us.  God is within us.  To speak to God is to lay down the Bible and to open your heart and soul to God.  Words are empty. They will leave us hungry.   God is fullness.

When you study the Word that is in the Bible, you study the story of man finding God.  You do not necessarily find God.  God is living and all around you.  His creation never ends.  To find God, you must call upon Him through your own heart and not only from the words you read in the Bible.  God still speaks to us. 

I repeat, no one on here is questioning the existence of God.  We are finding meaning every atom that God put forth upon the Earth.  We are putting God's breath into every aspect of all existence and examining how we are connected to  God as the Source of life and wisdom.  That we do not call upon the Bible in doing so, does not mean we are ignorant of its Word.  But, the stories within the Bible end at a time that was two thousand years ago.  Does this mean that God's creating, God's work on this Earth, ended at that time?  That He no longer speaks to us?
We seek the Living God and find it throughout creation.  This is what you are not understanding.  Peace be with you and may God's light continue to shine upon you. 

Re: The God Particle?

I have to ask, in the beginning, when God was creating, where was religion?  What religion were Adam and Eve?  You confuse religion with God.  Religion is man made.  So, to put your religion above a knowing of God as God, is not necessarily being Godly. 


Religion  is an inner impulse created only because of the fall of man and the resulting imbalance  that the soul machine evolved to.

Adam and Eve didn’t have a codified religion because before the fall there was no need for religion

The Koran and Bible describes Adam turning to “God” or the intelligence that had guided him before the fall, and that divine intelligence promised he would send guidance to those fallen humans who wanted to return to the grace and perfection of the Garden of Eden, and even beyond to a higher station of the Soul.
[ full enlightenment]

The dilemma in this revealing is that man
[ being in a inner imbalanced state] will always eventually distort the religion revealed to him, as long as he is in this state.
Catch 22. An ironic situation since there are 22 trees [ in the perfect original ]  Garden of Eden, whereas now [ because of the fall] we only feel 13 of those trees, barely, now in an imbalanced state.

When we all return to perfection there will be no longer any need for religion

Religion in this sense is not man made, but it exists because man's imbalanced condition will always need some device [ religion or mysticism of some sort] as long as the inner imbalanced soul of man is separated from his true nature of perfection.

There is more to the story that that, if you want it all read my book

Re: The God Particle?

Indeed, there is much more to the story, Zak. 

Peace,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

Indeed Zak, in Isaiah, it says that at some point, after what is thought of as the “end times”, God shall lead us to know how he works.  This indicates that there is so much more to know of our own Truth in relationship to our Father.  For the times we are currently living in, and the opening to so much more understanding that so many are experiencing, this passage is truly englightening:

Isaiah 2

Climb God's Mountain

 1-5 The Message Isaiah got regarding Judah and Jerusalem: There's a day coming when the mountain of God's House
Will be The Mountain—
   solid, towering over all mountains.
All nations will river toward it,
   people from all over set out for it.
They'll say, “Come,
   let's climb God's Mountain,
   go to the House of the God of Jacob.
He'll show us the way he works
   so we can live the way we're made.”
Zion's the source of the revelation.
   God's Message comes from Jerusalem.
He'll settle things fairly between nations.
   He'll make things right between many peoples.
They'll turn their swords into shovels,
   their spears into hoes.
No more will nation fight nation;
   they won't play war anymore.
Come, family of Jacob,
   let's live in the light of God.
 
This passage is directed to us all, all of man.

Re: The God Particle?

Re: The God Particle?

Zak and Opening, I love that passage in Isaiah! So may it be!

Hugs,

Nicole

Re: The God Particle?

god existed before the box, in non-existence  
god created the box from himself
god created matter from himself to put in the box
god created all of creation from the matter that he created, and put it in the box
god is the box, and all of existence
god is outside the box, in non-existence

what part of all of this is not god ?
is it so remarkable that we find the existence of god in creation, then ?
what is remarkable is that we doubt the existence of our creator.
all of creation screams out his name.

Re: The God Particle?

fascinating! i love your approach, we are so blessed to have you and your wife here on Gaia,

hugs,

Nicole