the knee of listening?

hi all, i've been reading the autobiography of adi da and i tell ya, i've gone from deep cynicism to seriously considering searching out a guru for the first time in my life! this is really no small change of mind as i've long considered most of these guys hucksters and peddlers; yet, here i sit, deeply compelled, reconsidering my assumptions.
is the age of the guru over? or are there still sincere authentic realizers out there sharing the flow of the universal spiritual energy(shakti)? in the age of narcissus can't we just do it all ourselves? if i seek and seek and seek i do tend to believe that i really am attaining redemption, 'cause i'm doing all this very very hard work. see, it really is all about me!lol
barring the obsession with trademark issues today (i am the one and only way of adidam/yada,yada,yada) which does seem somewhat incongruent considering the gravity of the situation on this planet lately, what's up with the guru's and why are they always steeped in controversy, and why isn't the world getting better and better and better with their authentic spiritual knowledge……….

Re: the knee of listening?

and for those who arn't familiar with the controversies:
http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/Da_and_his_cult.html

and then there is andrew cohen………..

so where are the guru's that are without controversy?

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good grief, maybe this belongs here to help sooth the savage beast…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoTLLur_EEY

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andrew, so sorry i have been very busy this weekend. Are you really looking for a guru? I don't know who in Vancouver might be good. Do you have any clues?

Love,

Nicole

Re: the knee of listening?

andrew, i found this really cool thread that might help you

Re: Pathological Guru/Disciple Relationships?

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Hi Andrew,

Interesting title for a post or so I thought even while I am unsure of it entirely. Actually I am not entirely sure of the posts sincerity either. I mean no offence it is just that I shared and read some of your previous banter and cynicism regarding the controversies around the hustlers. A view in which I shared. 

However…if in fact this is a real thought out there for you than it appears you made some sort of breakthrough or break in your previous thinking and feelings. No matter the break, it is still a break and no one can finger wag at that.

I have no experience with guru hunting so I cannot assist nor would I in fact, as this would be a personal affair. However, I have had several mentors and teachers for different reasons in my life and they served a valuable opportunity for me. Guru hunting, or hunting for teachers or mentors carries nothing more than an expression of seeking guidance, or help or simply reaching out ones hand. One who assumes they know all on their own…is well a tad foolish in my books.

Great I say!

I am going to make an assumption here with you from some of your previous posts and state that I figure you much too knowledgeable, confident and a down to earth type of fellow to allow yourself to get all gnarled up with a huckster!

Good for you and whatever comes of it…all the best.

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Denim, I agree, I don't see andrew getting gnarled up with a huckster. I have been blessed to meet him and talk to him on the phone a number of times. He is one smart guy.

Love,

Nicole

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hi denim and nicole, thx. for your feedback! i don't know if you've read this book but there are some pretty amazing claims made in it. now, it seems that adi da's internal experiences have been validated by external sources: i.e.- his devotees..what if we for the moment went on the assumption that what he experienced and taught was real. that then means that consciousness is apriori, that it's not the myth of the given as i understand it, that there are higher spiritual realities that predate the material universe, that that spirit can manifest in a human body and be aware of itself as itself….WOW! how can this be? i mean can dawkins,hitchens, dennett be that far off base? this is some major disconnect as far as the nature of reality goes…
and what about da's claims of spiritual anatomy in humans? is there no way to verify these claims objectively?

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beautiful day in van. nicole! happy halloween to ya…….

yeah, a trip to india may be in the cards in the coming years. 

gotta run, have a good week………

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thanks, andrew.

no, haven't read the book. have you read that thread? there has been a lot of discussion here on Gaia about Adi Da recently…

love

nicole

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hey nikki, yeah, i read the thread, lot's of good stuff in there…so what's more narcissistic? doing it all on your own because your ego doesn't trust in anything higher or my sublime, or the guru who implies by his teaching that he is on higher ground and more sublimely aware?

like i said, there's a lot of claims about the nature of reality in that book and that's my main point of interest; which isn't to say that the psychology of relationships isn't important here, it's just not my main point of interest..daddy and mommy complex's are interesting to be sure, but it's the workings of spirit that i'm interested in, if there be such a thing……………..

Re: the knee of listening?

The “workings of spirit” is not a choice one can make and most likely is an experience that comes from no longer needing to choose. Essentially you do it all on your own anyway, since the ego decides who or who isn't the teacher. Look around you, the teachers are there (Ack! but what do they know of spirit, they're just ignorant fools like the rest of us).

So “daddy and mommy's complexes” are not the “workings of spirit”?
Too 'impure'?

See how the ego has already determined what is, or is not, “spirit”?
mikeS

Re: the knee of listening?

hey mike, howzit witcha? oh come on dog! it's not two! it's not two!lol so yeah, everything is right? but i  was addressing specifically the transmission and awakening of the spiritual circuitry of the body-mind as described by da and many others, i.e.- the kundalini chakra thang….shakti and siddhi's, that's what i was interested in….real or delusuion? adida and such or dawkins? who's closer to the bulls-eye when it comes to the nature of reality………..
am i intuiting hostilities between the claims of western psychology and the claims of eastern or esoteric religion?

Re: the knee of listening?

hello mike, lovely to see you here. all is teaching, welcoming in a spirit of openness and awareness. Indeed. 

andrew, I don't know - I think that teachers can be very valuable to many especially at particular points in the journey. Openness is needed to recognise when to move on, when to stay, to whom to listen and how.

very very challenging. needing much discernment and wisdom.

love you both lotsly,

Nicole

Re: the knee of listening?

Here is:

The knee of listening

I did read it 1989. And became initiated student of Adi Da. For 5 years. It was a great decisive, fiery time. And absolutely essential for my life. Which is now, since 1995 without teacher. However, no other single influence was as strong as my relltionship to the teaching and the teacher.

The artwork of Adi Da still coninues to evoke, to inspire and to transform.

Best,

Albert

Re: the knee of listening?

Thank you so much for this, Albert! So helpful to have these personal perspectives.

Much love,

Nicole

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Yes, thanks Albert for the connection and link. I did take some time to review Adi Da and the movement of Adidam, I read a few of the chapters on the site Albert linked. Lots of self contraction there and lots of controversy as well. I obviously have been living under a rock because I have had no prior knowledge of him or many of the other names I see on this site. Maybe I am missing out on the “it” but I am sorry it just doesn't stick for me. I don't doubt at all that many have been inspired to wonderful new heights and glory but I don't get it. Honestly, it was kinda strange. I think I struggle with the language, “devotees' or the term “mine” for example. The closest I have ever been to a devotee was in my younger years when I followed the Tragically Hip around. 

Don't mean to rain on your parade Andrew or anyone else's but I did appreciate the link and taking a look at it all.

I am about to lunge into therapy for the first time in my life, I see it all as the same thing in many ways. I probably should have reached out for this source decades ago but my darn “pride” kept getting in the way. 

Interesting.

best to you…and perhaps best to me…most sincerely! 

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hi albert, so can i assume that integral has a better take on the phenomenon of adida than adida?

hey demin, i pretty much played in a hip tribute band back in the 90's…i should post the song no rain here…………..you know the one? all i can say is that my life is pretty strange…………..

sorry i missed your call nicole, we'll work out a time tho, so no worries…..

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andrew, not to worry, I will try you again - private message me as to when is the best time to call ok?

Denim, all the best to you as you lunge into therapy, as you put it in your inimitable and unique way. How I love you!

And the Tragically Hip is an awesome band, eh? 

Hugs,

Nicole

Re: the knee of listening?

How this went from Adi Da to the Hip is a bit strange as well! Anyway…yes, I am a Hip groupee / junkie.

Post it andrew! 

thanks for the encouragement Nicole…Love you back.

I am off…you all take care.

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Don't you just love the way discussions migrate? LOL!

Hugs,

Nicole

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hi all, another note on this topic: i found it interesting how god (adida) eventually blamed humans for the sorry state of the world-you just won't surrender to me because you love your egos so much; and of course, the opposing accusation throughout history- we blame god for being impotent and weak or being a vacant landlord in the face of the problem of evil……hmmm………..

perhaps the coming century will be a battle between the empiricists and the transcendentalists with integral being the referee……….

Re: the knee of listening?

maybe. not sure.