Gaia: God Pod or Life, the Universe and Everything - The Mystical and Contemplative Path - God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://songofstorms.gaia.com — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:01:06 GMT

I love this all!

I especially love the heightening of the discussion on play, with that wonderful description of universal play. Oh that feels right!

And to feel it, you have to play it. If you play it long enough, you'll feel it. It's acutely inevitable.

One thing that strikes me is the intense similarity between the description of 'universal play' and actual child's play.

In both, all experiences are all and all both a vehicle and summed-up-to growth. In both, growth is the out-and-out goal: every child knows they are becoming older, becoming an adult, growing: becoming is the natural state of a child, and so they don't focus on it. They just know it's happening.

In both, there's a fundamental aliveness, a connection, a trust.

In both, I'd say there's intense submission the child to the will of the parents, the 'universal' to the universe itself.

And in both, there's both a preconscious and conscious understanding that growth is the name of the game. Growth is everything.

As 'adults,' when a child soberly tells us that "when I was six, I used to be afraid of the dark, but now I'm not afraid of the dark anymore."

usually we smile at the cuteness...

How much better it'd be if we could say: "oh yeah? I know how you feel... when I was 34, I used to be afraid of becoming poor, but now I'm not afraid anymore. You did a great job growing!"

heheheh, some say the children will lead us.

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://voyager.gaia.com — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:13:33 GMT

Mike,

I am especially referring to the lengthy article from AQAL JOurnal.

What astonishes me most that either child like play is associated or "serious" spiritual striving.

In the real world with so much vmemetic complexity and monstrous dimensions (Sloterdijk 2007 at Royal Albert Academy in Belgium)
have to be taken into account it should be celar that advanced adult play in utter complexity is a challenge!

I am in contact with an Austrian German Game designer who is developing something in this direction. She adresses the emerging dynamics between female and masculine energies too -besides other diversity generators .in a wide historic context.

Howard Bloom is one those brilliant veterans who always was into it.

The ultimate Master Game dimensions include necessarily the dimension of birth, transcendence, transformation and death.

But it has to be lived, breathed and felt, as KW says in the quote of my profile page.

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://songofstorms.gaia.com — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:07:07 GMT

amen.

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:45:10 GMT

Thank you so much, Andrew, for what you sent me from the Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment.

I really enjoyed this introductory story and the rest would make a great basis for a discussion - I'll start another thread:

A Fable

Once upon a time there dwelt an old King in a palace. In the center of a golden table in the main hall, there shone a large and magnificent jewel. Each day of the King's life the stone sparkled more resplendently.

One day a thief stole the jewel and ran from the palace, hiding in a forest. As he stared with deep joy at the stone, to his amazement the image of the King appeared in it.

"I have come to thank you," said the King. "You have released me from my attachment to Earth. I thought I was freed when I acquired the jewel, but then I learned that I would be released only when I passed it on, with a pure heart, to another.

"Each day of my life I polished that stone, until finally this day arrived, when the jewel became so beautiful that you stole it, and I have passed it on, and am released.

"The jewel you hold is Understanding. You cannot add to its beauty by hiding it and hinting that you have it, nor yet by wearing it with vanity. Its beauty comes of the consciousness that others have of it. Honor that which gives it beauty."

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://songofstorms.gaia.com — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:48:16 GMT

it has escaped my notice. enemies? I don't really vibrate that way.... I believe everything is one. Therefore, no one has enemies, we only have misunderstandings with each other.

everything else I understand and completely share your sentiments.

but I would add that we would do well respect all of each other's opinions, even the ones that initially seem in conflict with our own. This means not accusing them of things... To become offended is a choice we all make or don't make. To recognize that all opinions are valid would be to hear even the most 'horrid' idea and not take it personally, to react with it in some way outside of anger. perhaps this energy is needed in these dialogs most. Otherwise, we create a tension-filled situation where it didn't need to be.

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:50:21 GMT

I have no disagreement with you on that score Alan,

You have been here a lot longer that I, so I'm sure it hasn't escaped your notice that there are traditional enemy's sharing space here at Gaia. It can only work if there is mutual respect, that respect being for the foundation for ones belief system. In most cases that will be related to writings that have been passed down, generation after generaton, meticulously copied by scholars singled out for that work.

To offer dignity and respect and withdraw judgement for someone elses faith mixed with love and a gentle approach in matters pertaining to discussing those differences makes Gaia.com unique.

I've made my point, can we move on now?

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://songofstorms.gaia.com — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:25:34 GMT

Thank you, we can now agree on a working definition of meek.

my meek=egoless statement still applies as everything therein can also be ascribed to egolessness.

is this the part of the 'dispute' where we pretend to be disagreeing even if we aren't disagreeing anymore? : ) I like that part. But I like ending the disagreement entirely better. Seeing as we are now debating the definition (and perhaps the validity) of the word meek, it does seem that it is a fair and debatable question to ask. Not an attack on the bible. Quoting a favorite expert on the theory proves it... it's at least enough of an issue for an expert to write on.

I think that brings us out of the woods, yes?

Anyway, I was saying... it is possible to make all the major religions fundamentally agree, instead of fundamentally disagree. It begins with the mindset that says: the universe is alive, and god is the alive universe. OR with the mindset that says: all humans have the same soul/spiritual apparatus, so it is likely they were all using different languages, phrasings and ideas to point their metaphorical fingers at the same moon.

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 02:52:32 GMT

G'day Alan,

I'm going to quote George M. Lamsa, an Assyrian born scholar who grew up in an area that still used the same Aramaic language (Syriac) that would have been used in Jesus's time. His bio is here.

Ref. to "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." (Mat 5:5)

This beatitude is an Oriental proverb still commonly used. It refers to the type of man who does not retaliate and who is free from that grasping temper which leads to disputes and quarrels often ending up in bloodshed and murder, Such men believe in nonresistence and submit to injustice even at great inconvenience. They seldom protest to the rulers of the earth but in their supplications they always remind God of their heavy burdens. They are at last rewarded for their oppressors and persecutors generally perish in wars and revolutions.

It is still customary in the East, when a man dies or is killed in war, leaving no male heir, his land is turned over to the meritorious meek. Landlords furthermore invariably prefer to lease their vineyards and farms to men of character who are responsible and reliable. The meek are thus ultimately blessed and rise in power and prosperity.

-Gospel Light, Page 26, by George M. Lamsa

I don't know what meek means to you Alan but that sounds like a clear definition of the word to me.

An eccentric Australian (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://songofstorms.gaia.com — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 02:04:45 GMT

if you're considered a heritic... well, why are different viewpoints so offensive?

I mean, you didn't even really get what I was saying...

First: I am saying that Meek and Egoless are for intents and purposes synonyms, in that they share some meanings enough to be, in specific circumstances, interchangable.

Second, here it is again: the EGOLESS/MEEK shall inherit the earth. The difference between the two versions of translation is not a matter of changing the scriptures, it's a matter of translating the scriptures different ways from one language to another.

I think the first language is ancient aramaic. (I can't remember if that's actually it, but I think so.)

as in any translation, translating from ancient aramaic to english is not exact, because works don't mean the same things or have the same associations. In fact, translation is an art in and of itself, not a science. some grad-schools teach 'theories of translation' classes. this wouldn't be possible if there wasn't some ability and necessity to choose between words when going from one language to another. As we all know, sentences have nuances. Nuances usually do not get translated.

So again, what I believe is that "egoless" is probably a better translation of the scripture into english, at least right now when the word meek has been misunderstood for centuries.

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:30:20 GMT

G'day Mike

If you wanted to draw from Bibliothèque de l'Arsenal, or it's English translation The Book of Abramelin then that's up to you. I beleive Satanism is a recognised system of religion though I have had little to do with it.

I know we have Wiccan adherents on Gaia as well.

The Spiritual path I follow is not in contradiction to any scripture of any faith I have read. Certainly I'm considered a heretic according to Christian doctrine, an infidel according to Islamic doctrine a gentile according to Judaic doctrine etc etc. but these doctrines have been created from the interpretation of the scriptures, generally designed to control there adherents.

The scriptures I'm most familiar with are the Judeo-Christian scriptures and that is why I quote them the most often but I've read scripture from nearly every major religion in the cosmos. I could make exactly the same points using the Hindu scriptures or Confucianist scriptures, it would just take a lot longer to find the relevent references (a lot longer).

I don't know which scripture path your referring to that I most adhere to.

But it was the interfering with and altering those scriptures that I know people find insulting and disrespectful.

And I'm speaking as an Ambassador of Gaia, my personal opinion is irrelevant.

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://mbsu.gaia.com — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:34:32 GMT

Andrew,

my questions were not in relation to finite or fixed rules within Gaia, but more in relation to rules of any spirtual game.

I don't judge one faiths scriptures to be any more or less Spirit inspired that any other, but to change a scripture to suite a particular viewpoint is going beyond the boundary of respect and good taste.

But, of course, in your life you adhere more to some spiritual paths as opposed to others, thus you do judge, we all do. You seem to be saying that you have determined a rule that such judgments should not be expressed in Gaia, since this is Gaia's rule (I think).
However, in relation to Nicole's initial question about how to deepen the dialogue, my question is that, if we withhold our judgments and reserve our comments in the service of respect and tolerance, do we thus oppress the dialogue as opposed to deepening it?
if I was a satan worshipper would I be afforded the same respect and tolerance as the student of scripture? if not, why not?
My point is not to identify your statement as right or wrong, simply to identify the rules that we take serious in the spiritual games we play and do they limit us or liberate?

Thanks : )
mike S

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:56:40 GMT

Hi Mike and Alan,

I don't recollect, nor do I have the authority, to set 'rules' as you well know.

The one thing that sets Gaia.com apart is the respect and tolerance that individuals demonstrate towards each other.

I don't judge one faiths scriptures to be any more or less Spirit inspired that any other, but to change a scripture to suite a particular viewpoint is going beyond the boundary of respect and good taste.

Arguing doctrine is an entirely different matter. Doctrine being the interpretation of the scriptures of any particular faith, from which religion and dogma enter the equation to control the adherents of that particular faith.

If I am wrong gentlemen I will publicly and unequivocally apologise.

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://songofstorms.gaia.com — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:58:47 GMT

This was such a nice thread, with such interesting ideas. It's a shame for such things to get diverted because one person accidentally insults others.

so, for accidentally insulting andrew and anyone else, I apologize.

Please note that I may occasionally be unintentionally insulting in the future. As it was unintentional, I cannot promise it won't happen again.

Please know I also stand by everything I wrote, including the post about not completely understanding what I said that was so offensive.

Can we get back to the fun part?

: -)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://mbsu.gaia.com — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:55:29 GMT

Andrew,

So, in fact, are we setting a rule of not disturbing those who are serious about the bible? But should we respect those who are NOT serious about scripture? Should it not be manipulated? And how much seriousness or regard should we afford the bible or any other religious text? Should religious texts be attended to with respect or just those who take the texts serious? What type of respect should be given? should we not speak God's name in vain, since the rule of eternal damnation has been determined by many religions. We have to wonder, is that God's rule or religions?
I don't feel the question is whether or not we should have rules, since we have rules about everything? The question is how seriously do we adhere to the rules. Of course if we're not serious enough, then it all becomes a game. Does Spirit have anything to do with our rules or have we just imposed our rules upon Spirit thereby cutting ourselves off from it?

Inquiring minds want to know....

Peace Angels,
mike S

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://mbsu.gaia.com — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:40:09 GMT

As i read the essay Albert linked to I thought, 'okay another merging of the child-like paradigm of play into the adult play paradigm.' but then I came to this:

The philosopher James Carse, in a brilliant little book called Finite and Infinite Games, describes the difference between finite and infinite play. Finite play has rigid limits, rules, winners and losers, and does not include everybody in the game. Infinite play, on the other hand, changes the rules as needed and includes everyone. The whole purpose of infinite play is to keep the play going. Now we can see a little more clearly what has gone awry in our world. Without caring connection, infinite play becomes finite. With high stakes, winners and losers, it takes itself very seriously and when you take things too seriously you end up dropping bombs. The ultimate expression of finite play is war.

But in infinite play, everything-war, death, deadlines, annoying bosses, barbed wire fences, fear and terrorism-can all be brought into the play. This implies that it's possible to get to the source of being that lets you sing and dance no matter what else is going on. When our sense of well-being comes from a deep enough intimacy with the Universe, there's nothing to win or lose. We can risk anything. We can trust that no matter how foolish, confused, or inept we might be, we will not fall out of the web of life. Being held keeps us from holding back from the world and lets us participate play-fully.

I feel the author has adequately, but not comprehensively, provided an excellent encapsulation of Carse's chief ideas. Foremost being that play is one paradigm (not two) and not extracted from childhood and amenable to only certain areas or specific domains of adulthood, but applicable across the board in all domains of adult living.
In fact, death is itself a game and for most a very serious game with strict rules. But what if we changed the rules. Would we then take it less seriously? Would we then be open to "suprise" (one of Carse's chief concepts, similar in many ways to 'enlightenment')

On my blog I have extrapolated some of my own ideas from Carse's book with direct quotes from the author here

Peace Angels,
mike S

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://songofstorms.gaia.com — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:48:49 GMT

Jackie,

Thank you for your lovely comments! Right thought indeed is important. And you also raise another point, which is that most of our historical teachers themselves were occasionally responding to temporary, contemporary conditions that in almost all cases don't exist anymore. Still, there are many contemporary condition responses that are pretty universal... I feel that way about Jesus's spiel on the Priests of Babel, for example. : )

Nicole:

You're awesome.

Andrew:

I'm sorry, but I don't really know what you're talking about. I mean: I hear what you're saying but it doesn't really compute. Sometimes, I say things, and then people think I said entirely different things. And then people tell me that I said this and that and I'm wrong for this and that reason and I go: "Huh?"

For example, I have no idea who you think I've disrespected by stating my perspective as plainly and honestly as I can, but as far as I'm concerned, their assumed offense has more to do with them than me. I believe what I said was logical, based on more or less accepted facts, and inclusive and loving of all walks of faith. I said what I said in this spirit.

It really has been many centuries since the old masters did their thing, and the messages have been interpreted and reinterpreted. I didn't say a word about the bible that was negative. The bible is fine with me. Like everything, it literally IS the consciousness that we often call god. Why would I be angry at it? Doesn't compute, mate. : )

I respect all who walk, swim, and exist. I love all who do so. I love you too.

hello!

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:33:22 GMT

I understand NIcole you may be familiar with Alan but unfortunately the Bible is an easy target, and I know people get really upset when others mess with it. Particularly when it is manipulated almost beyond recognition by someone that appears to have little regard for it.

If Allan wants to start messing with scripture perhaps he could consider doing the same with the Koran and see how far he gets before a price is put on his head.

I'm not looking for trouble. I just ask that Alan demonstrate the same respect towards others that he appears to demand for himself.

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:27:05 GMT

It would seem that fear of no direction is a kind of direction - also an understandable fear, Mike. Directionality seems deeply a part of us.

Alan, I haven't heard these concepts referred to before as red and green lions. Cool!

Love,

Nicole

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:23:17 GMT

Ah, it's in the same thread as the other post, higher up! I see it now, and it is even more delightful than I hoped. Thank you. For example, this part:

When we play, we enter the creative current of possibilities, the self-organizing force of the whole cosmos, as active participants. Before the human, all animals were specialized for particular niches. We have the flexibility of the cosmos dancing right in our neurons, enabling us to move into any niche and explore the whole world as a playground.

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:20:41 GMT

Mr and Andrew, thank you. I am very grateful for the way that members like you follow the discussion here so closely and with such concern and attention for the thoughts and feelings of others.

Mr, I like the idea of pushing beyond our comfort zone to grow. I believe this is what Alan, Mike and Bjorn have been trying to do, each in his own way. I didn't read Alan's words as disrespectful, but maybe that is partly through familiarity with him. The more we get to know each other, the easier it is to hear the true intent behind the words we read.

Love,

Nicole