the 11th hour.....

here is the link to the documentary by leo…..

Re: the 11th hour.....

oh bloody hell, it would be remiss if me not to add some of my thoughts on solutions……….

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The WTO is the BIG enemy here, not us. We can do something, but that is very little in comparison to what corporate globalism is doing to this planet.

What we must do is realize that, all of the wars and destruction on this planet is caused by those who just want to turn a profit. We have the technology RIGHT NOW to make our earth clean, and who is BLOCKING that? Take a guess at who would lose out with clean, renewable and clearly ABUNDANTLY available energy? Not us, THEM.

WTO, IMF, The World Bank, the United Nations…. They are the enemies of the environment, not us. The best thing we can do for this planet and ourselves is to remove Globalist Corporations.

These guys will stop at NOTHING for a profit. Human life and environmental costs are irrelevant.

Take a look at what these guys are doing…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcX2UlJ1yR4&feature=related

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yes sara, i've been aware of those folks for a long long time and indeed have felt the pain and sting of how  they operate………….

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non-violence, non-resistance AND non-compliance.

Don't get me wrong. I am not fighting these guys. My harsh tone may be due to the fact that I'm tired of this myth that humans are the ones that are the non-caring, dirty, warmongering, sinful beasts who cause all destruction on this planet. It couldn't be further from the truth.

The real attention should be on these guys. It is they who have separated us from nature. They've gotta go.

And we should not participate in their plans anymore. We don't need to buy into their crappy world anymore.

www.zeitgeistmovie.com

www.thezeitgeistmovement.com (coming Oct 10th)

Let us create a new world!

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Porblem is, “these guys” are human too. Many have experienced deprivation in childhood, in fact, most likely more have risen from the middle classes than have risen to power from inherited wealth. They experience loss and pain and death and disease, just like us.
They experience the same drives and motivations toward self-improvement that we all do.
Are they simply more industrious or lucky then the rest of us? Or are they driven by motives much more evil and destructive than the rest of us?
It seems that we can be just as uncaring and insensitive as those in power, while the distinction is only that those in power can effect more people.

We have centuries of villifying them against us and yet, this seems to have gotten us nowhere soon.
How to bring them 'into the fold,' demands we be 'there' as well, and such a collective vision might be more productive for our collective future.

But I'm just saying…

Peace Angels,
mike S

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andrew, i like the idea of tax-free for green, that makes so much sense.  Gypster, thanks for clarifying your position further.

Thanks, Mike, for the reminder of Oneness, always most difficult with those we struggle with the most.
 
I was most intrigued by your last statement, would you care to elaborate?

How to bring them 'into the fold,' demands we be 'there' as well, and such a collective vision might be more productive for our collective future.

Love,

Nicole

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hey mike, i offer you a spiritual hypothesis…….that there are invisible players behind what appears to be completely human endeavors…

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I agree that there are invisible players, playing 'infinite' as opposed to 'finite' games (James P Carse, “infinite and Finite Games”), although I would imagine they are human, as opposed to some other species or race. But who can say? So I'll take your recommendation and withold analysis.

Yet, I do believe there is a “quiet majority” moving social currents and this is opposite the “silent majority” as we do hear from these folks particularly in formats and mediums like Gaia. But as opposed to the “silent majority” the quiet ones do not conform to any particular codified dogma or doctrine and they seem to enjoy juggling perspectives with the openness, in fact, a joyful openness, in being free from having to conform to any particular ideology. They tend to easily see the mainstream hypocrisy and refuse to fully participate, but the participation, since there is much social hypocrisy we all to some degree must participate in, is often amusing or at the least not taken seriously.

This is the “fold” that I think more people are joining that is outside the rigid perspectives of atheism or theism since folks in those two camps tend to take their views very seriously and will do battle in order to maintain them. The quiet ones recognize the limits of language, but voice their openess nonetheless but with less degree of conviction since they realize the discussion is infinite and never ends. In fact, the point is simply to keep the discussion going.

Ha! But I'm just saying…

Peace Angels,
mike S

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I saw that reference to infinite versus finite games, and didn't really get it, but seem to remember there was only one infinite game. Can you explain better, Mike?

Peace,

Nicole

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Nicole,

In regard to “Finite and Infinite games” I refer to James P Carse's book of the same name. I purchased a copy of this in paperback in 1988 and have referenced it so often in past years that due to margin scribbles, highlighting and underlining it is now barely readable. However, I post a few quotes to facilitate a better understanding of the finite and infinite games we all play throughout our lives (note that Carse regards each and every activity, behavior or project we engage with in life as a “game” and this includes careers, politics, relationships, etc, etc, even death) :

“There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other, infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing the play.”

“In finite games the world is elaborately marked by boundaries of contest, its people finely classified as to their eligibility. Only one person or team can win a finite game, but the other contestants may well be ranked at the conclusion of play. Not everyone can be a corporation president, although some who have competed for that prize may be vice presidents or district managers. There are many games we enter not expecting to win, but in which we nonetheless compete for the highest possible ranking.”

“While finite games are externally defined, infinite games are internally defined. The time of an infinite game is not world time, but time created within the play itself. Since each play of an infinite game eliminates boundaries, it opens players to a new horizon of time.”

“Infinite players continue their play in the expectation of being surprised - if surprise is no longer possible - all play ceases.”

“In infinite play one chooses to be mortal in as much as one always plays dramatically - toward the open - toward the horizon - toward surprise - where nothing can be scripted - this play requires complete vulnerability.”

The book is small and easy to read and very Taoist, but in a western sense. For those interested you can go to Wiki and download a pdf of quotes from the book.

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Clearly I am going to have to do some serious reading to wrap my mind even partway around this finite/infinite play! Many thanks,

Love,

Nicole

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yep yep, thanks mike S, i think this needed to be said (‘human too’). it doesn’t seem like it could be right to combat greed and selfishness with fear, hatred and anger. given the thoughtless actions of a few, it’s difficult to find love for them, but i think that may be the way.

mike S: ‘Are they simply more industrious or lucky then the rest of us? Or are they driven by motives much more evil and destructive than the rest of us?’

in a world of maturing souls, we’re always going to have a given % of the population who are evolving (if at times very slowly :D)through greedy selfish vmemes. the problem, by my way of thinking, is that the system is set up to attract the ambitious, and put the most dishonest into the most powerful positions.

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Indeed, Joshua. Did you see Daniel's blog?

Narcissists Tend to Become Leaders

Posted on Oct 8th, 2008 by Hawkeye

Narcissists like to be in charge, so it stands to reason that a new study shows individuals who are overconfident about their abilities are most likely to step in as leaders, be they politicians or… More »

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good stuff :D is there a solution do you think? perhaps we will find an overabundance of a particular receptor or amino acid in the brains of narcissists…ya know, something we could scan for. sensors could be set-up - like metal detectors - to keep narcissists away from positions of power ;D

just playfully brainstorming :D

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here's the criteria for Narcissitic Personality Disorder based on the DSM-IV psychiatirc model :

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

(1)  has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

(2)  is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

(3)  believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

(4)  requires excessive admiration

(5)  has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

(6)  is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

(7)  lacks empathy:  is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

(8)  is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her

(9)  shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

I do NOT meet many of these folks in my therapy practice since they tend to have few problems. nevertheless this certainly seems to fit the political personality. Thus, I suppose if we see a politician NOT manifesting the above criteria, or at least not blatantly manifesting, we may then assume less self-absorbed tendencies possibly resulting in greater advantages to the collective.

In relation to this criteria how would we contrast McCain/Obama?

Thanks,
mike S

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Very good, Mike! And great question, can't wait to hear some answers. Joshua, I thank you for your creativity :):)

Love,

Nicole

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the idea of non-compliance is an interesting one gypster. from 1979 until 2003 i lived intentionally with no credit and no debt and very minimal material possessions. like chomsky has recommended i went thru a 7 year period of non-filing as a way to be in non-compliance. these days i am taking a slightly different approach…………..

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hey that list also sounds like the  vast majority of spiritual teachers…

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andrew, you always amaze me with your unique approach to everything. i feel very heartened today to read these words in your post:

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I have been pondering this topic for a while now and also agree with what Mike and Andrew have said. A good example is the Oil monopoly, where alternative motor vehicle technology has been in existance for over 90 years, yet here we are using Petrol and Diesel engines that have the same fuel efficiency as 50 years ago.
Patents have been bought and people have been killed. Other monopolies are found with among seed companies that produce hybrid sees in conjunction with gene manipulation (GM), and farmers are having a hard time getting anything else. I live in a third world country so it is maybe more prominent over here.

I think the primary motivation is GREED and power, and they wil stop at nothing, just about all govt's are also involved.

We should listen to Einstein's words that a problem cannot be solved with the same consciousness as it was created.
I think what we need to do is inform the people at grass roots level.
Get the silent majority slowly moving in the right direction. unfortunately it might be difficult to get the media on our side.
We also have to lead by example, as was mentioned with the non- compliance and self sufficiency.

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Well said, Jo. I think it's quite bad all over but quite possibly worse in a number of significant ways in your part of the world, from what I hear from my friends who live there.

I'm sure we have no idea how much maneuvering goes on to prevent many “green” patents going on, and lives of a few people must seem like a small price to some to pay to protect the enormous, powerful oil industry.
 
I, too, have found the gene manipulation of hybrid corn and its implications very disturbing. This is a long article and includes some interesting links:  Part I Reviewing F. William Engdahl's “Seeds of Destruction” – by Stephen Lendman

We have the internet to learn of all kinds of things we never would have known otherwise, to share the information with others and to think of better ways to live. May we continue to be diligent.

Love,

Nicole

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it seems appropriate to link this here…….

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As far as the utopia the “futurists” see… I understand that all of the technology they are talking about is available RIGHT NOW and is being hidden from us all. This is a FACT if we just look at one simple fact that the movie brings up… WHY WE DON'T ALL HAVE AN ELECTRIC CAR. It's utter BS that we should not have one sitting in our driveway, just like it's utter BS that the smark cars they are selling on the market get 40 mpg which is a complete joke, those can EASILY get 60mpg. WHY dont' they? Profit, profit, profit. Why don't we have “free energy devices” in abundance today? I'm talking about wind, solar, geothermal and hydroelectric power. It is because the “Owners” can't control the resources and keep us IN DEBTED to them. The entire system is backwards, and just like how the Vatican hides our TRUE spiritual heritage, the energy companies and others hide things from us as well, even going so far as to commit MURDER to keep things hidden or to STEAL them from humanity.

I also wonder sometimes how many good ideas, how many creations are aborted because of money (mostly the lack of)… What person who would be a writer becomes a soldier instead… What artist becomes a construction worker… the list is endless… don't we owe it to ourselves to be free of this?

And another thing, is, that this RELIGIOUS idea that humans are inherantly evil and sinful must be cast aside. Once people are awake and aware they will see, they will definately see how the horrors of the world really come about and I reject ideas that people cannot organize together, once the owners have been thrown off, we will see something amazing in our lifetimes I feel, definately better times are to come from all of this, as we are all learning. So many times I hear, “Why must the ultra rich live so well when I have a hard time buying a car? Are they more deservant than I? I think not!” This is ETHICS coming out, and we must embrace this, since ETHICS is the next revolution in our evolution, lest we destroy ourselves with war and allow the masters to kill us, make us sick, etc, etc ad nauseum..

And it is true, that even if we go to a debt free money system (which could be a first step on the way of civilization) that people become more honest. A personal example here:

I went to two periodontists for treatment. I paid the first periodontist $215 for xrays and a consultation. she told me that it was pretty severe and I would have to have 3 teeth taken right away and probably would lost up to 9 and that she would be able to replace them all with implants. This is after she scared the crap out of me and told me that I had no bone left on one side. The treatments and the 3 teeth extractions would cost 7k. So, I cried a lot but still got a second opinion.
The second periodontist charged me 180 for xrays and consultation. He said nothing about losing teeth right away, in fact he said after a treatment that would cost 5k, I would probably keep my teeth till I was in my 50's or even later. He said nothing scary or threatened to take teeth.

So, in the movie I completely related when they said something to the effect of, “You don't know when a Dr says to take a kidney if they are paying off a yacht or not.” And you don't know if you are buying a quality car unless you do tons and tons of research. And you don't know what corners food manufacturers cut when they make your food so what could be in there? Can't they fib and hide things when they are being evaluated by the FDA? (Which again, I don't trust acronyms)

Fact of the matter is, we, as humans… once we are AWARE enough to REALIZE why this world is so screwed up, and finally we are able to THROW off our masters, I feel that maybe we will have LEARNED that the old ways simply don't work as well as a moneyless society…

And also, whatever we feel, whatever we wish, can be ours collectively. And I really, honestly believe that we can see a society similar to what we see in Zeitgeist, if only we work towards it, dream about it and honestly have FAITH in it.

People I have seen, automatically raise comments and concerns such as yours right away about how this can't work and to that I say, let's not sell orselves short of something truly wonderful. Just because it hasn't happened before in our history (which was written by our masters anyway) doesn't mean anything at all, and the so called “learned things” should be THROWN AWAY. We are waking up en masse, and as more and more minds are freed, I am amazed at the amount of utter beauty, compassion and selflessness these people show. They do things ONLY to better humanity and accept donations, but do not demand money for you to watch their works. some don't even accept donations at all. This is the new consciousness that is coming over us all. Some will not be able to handle it, however. We will see what this brings.

We must remember, the world is ours to shape into whatever we wish it to be. And most people agree that utopia sounds wonderful. So, let's make it already! ;-)

with love,

gypster

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i admire your passion sara. the bloodlines of the kings and queens, and emperors, and pharoahs run thru every ethnic culture on earth. they have been masters in implementing half truths in all the religions so as to use these religions as sources of strife. they have twisted and exaggerated the domain of science and have effectively  used technology to further their agenda of control. of course, when they found religious manipulation was starting to be less effective 150 years ago they came up with the new method of control-slavery by debt………

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Andrew, my friend,

This is why it is in our hands to do what we can while we are here, and as David Ray Griffin put it, to be joyful in doing so, and to also recognize and accept that the reward for speaking out and doing what we can may just be the joy and joy of it alone.

I admit I get scared and even pessimistic now and again yet with my fear, I take that and let it motivate me, and with my pessimism, I take that and remind myself of the work to be done. I have found that neither emotion serves the ultimate goal, which is to speak out, to educate, to enlighten people at the very least of exactly what they are, which is nothing short of beautiful creatures who are worthy of so much more than what this world is giving them.

Every single one of us is capable of critical thinking. But it's not taught on purpose. I really don't need to tell you any of this, what I am saying here is to the benefit of those who are reading who may not be aware.

There are people in my family right now that don't believe a word I say, they believe the Patriot Act is a good thing and they say that it's hurtful when I bring these things up. But I know such things are false really, because I see the type of people they are still. They would literally give me the clothes off of their back. And if they saw the horrors firsthand that are going on in the third world they would certainly awaken right then and become a mighty force.

This gives me hope you see, because I see this in people. But one needs to look past their apparent blindness to the horrors of the world. Maybe they'll wake, maybe they won't. Only time will tell.

And also it helps to remind myself that we only have right now, we do not have a past really (except to learn from it, but not to lament) and the future is still unwritten. What we hold in our minds and hearts shapes our course in life.

And also the Hopis said that help would come from within the earth, that they would come and help us fight. I believe this has a symbolic meaning, like with the idea of a final battle being fought in the air, as in Revelations I believe… I feel that air meant mind, so maybe earth people means a return to our “natural selves”, who knows. Or maybe this photon belt thing has credence. It would make sense because after all, our DNA does absorb and emit photons. Or it could be that our solar system since 1984 has been slowly crossing the elliptic of the galaxy, and perhaps the extra gravitational forces are not only causing the entire solar system to warm, but also an increase in frequencies? Who knows? Times are very interesting indeed.

We must remain joyful, however, in whatever we do, even if it's for joy's sake. That is our saving grace.

with love,

gypster

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The envisioned society is the world we are intended to create.  That is just it, we have to create it.  We are beings on this Earth with the sole purpose of creating in the physical in the same manner the physical was created from nothing by God.  I loved the discussion above regarding a personal God.  This concept is jeered by organized religion.  However, go to the Old Testament and tell me if Adam had a personal God.  There was no religion then to tell Adam who or what God was and was not.  There are things that are of God and only of God.  Anything that is false is obviously false to a mind that has been enlightened by the personal connection to God.

Anyway, we will get there and it will be painful.  I have to admit, I copied the link to the video and sent it to my son prior to watching the whole thing.  Immediately afterward I thought, oh crap, now I have sent the boy (he is 20) something that will tell him that the foundations upon which he is to build a life, form a sense of security, and attempt to keep a family (he doesn't have one yet) safe and fed are a load of crap.  Does he have the discernment to understand how to properly view what the video contains?  I am not sure that I do as it is so radical in terms of what it reveals about the monetary system.  But, my Dad, born in 1912, was saying this all for years and I thought he was nutso.  Hey, I have money.  It means something.  I can go buy a candy bar or a new shirt, just watch me.  I panicked after sending that to my son.  I want the boy (ok man to some) to feel good about life and its prospects.  I also want the boy to be one of those that seek true understanding and from that seek a new way.  The parent seeks to hide the truth from him and let him go whistling along his marry way towards an illusionary future, but a future that is accepted as real nonetheless.  The old fart soul God loving truthseeker in me wants him to know just what he is truly up against and to be prepared for what is most certain to come. 

Tell me this, how does all of this square up with that positive thinking line that is so popular and sold by books like “The Secret”?  Oh, my my head is hurting.  Got to shut it down.

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I was wondering if the following from the book of Revelations sounds a bit like the economic collapse of the United States and the world to anyone:

Revelation 18

 1After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2With a mighty voice he shouted:
   “Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!
      She has become a home for demons
   and a haunt for every evil^[a] spirit,
      a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
 3For all the nations have drunk
      the maddening wine of her adulteries.
   The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
      and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”

 4Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
   “Come out of her, my people,
      so that you will not share in her sins,
      so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
 5for her sins are piled up to heaven,
      and God has remembered her crimes.
 6Give back to her as she has given;
      pay her back double for what she has done.
      Mix her a double portion from her own cup.
 7Give her as much torture and grief
      as the glory and luxury she gave herself.
   In her heart she boasts,
      'I sit as queen; I am not a widow,
      and I will never mourn.'
 8Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her:
      death, mourning and famine.
   She will be consumed by fire,
      for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.

 9”When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her. 10Terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry:
   ” 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
      O Babylon, city of power!
   In one hour your doom has come!'

 11”The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more- 12cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; 13cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men.

 14”They will say, 'The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your riches and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered.' 15The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They will weep and mourn 16and cry out:
   ” 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
      dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,
      and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!
 17In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!'

   “Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. 18When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, 'Was there ever a city like this great city?' 19They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out:
   ” 'Woe! Woe, O great city,
      where all who had ships on the sea
      became rich through her wealth!
   In one hour she has been brought to ruin!
 20Rejoice over her, O heaven!
      Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets!
   God has judged her for the way she treated you.' ”

 21Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said:
   “With such violence
      the great city of Babylon will be thrown down,
      never to be found again.
 22The music of harpists and musicians, flute players and trumpeters,
      will never be heard in you again.
   No workman of any trade
      will ever be found in you again.
   The sound of a millstone
      will never be heard in you again.
 23The light of a lamp will never shine in you again.
   The voice of bridegroom and bride
      will never be heard in you again.
   Your merchants were the world's great men.
      By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
 24In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints,
      and of all who have been killed on the earth.”

Re: the 11th hour.....

andrew, gypster, opening, thank you!

andrew, you will be glad to hear that i have come around to your way of thinking in many regards. still not sure about the aliens but it is clear as daylight that there are a number of deep-seated conspiracies at work, that we are being manipulated like puppets on a string. the problem is, as you rightly say, that the puppet-masters will not so easily cede their control.

gypster, i really really resonated with what you said about doing what we must do in joy, regardless of the results. just because we are doubtful of how change will come does not give us a reason to stop trying. i love your spirit, your passion and sheer determination. may your joy ever increase!

opening, thanks so much for contributing to the discussion. The Book of the Revelation sounds very familiar in every age and these lines could describe every corrupt overweaning world power. That is the glory of apocalyptic literature, it goes to the heart of reality.

I hear your conflict about sharing the information with your son. I was very protective of my children when they were little. As they grow older it seems more and more urgent to provide them with the facts about their reality they will need to build their life, though some of these are very ugly and discouraging.

Love and light,

Nicole

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great discussion by everyone. I would go along with Gypsters' suggestion. We should not feed the dark side. Big business, Govt's and the Christians are already doing it. If we want to serve for the highest good of all, we should work with Love and Light at all times. Keeping in mind that spiritual  people/healers/lightworkers get a 10x fold return of karma, while persons of a lower vibration only get a 1X1 return. So we don't get away with shit, hehe.

Fight we will have to, this is a good forum to discuss ways to act.

By the way, I am really looking forward to the Big Party in 2012.  

Love You All,
Jo

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Word.  

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hi opening, i would recommend that all christian people read a book called-antichrist-2000 years of the human fascination with evil. the apocalyptic themes have been with us from the 1st century. by the 5th century the idea of a christian anti-christ appeared. by the 9th century the islamic one; and of course, the ever abiding jewish anti-christ. so no, i wouldn't count on any exoteric doctrines about the end times.

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Spiritiual materialism!  yes!  I'm so with you!  you've managed to capture in two words what I sometimes go on and on about…

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yes, i love you, too, gypster…….lol

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Awwww I feel so loved! thank you Andrew, and much love to you as well. :)

I think it's extremely interesting that Apocalypse in greek means “leather covering or mask” So maybe we can think of Apocalyptic end times as a removal of such masks like religion, governement and materialism.

I am so happy everyone, that we are having these conversations. In doing so, we open ourselves further to possibilities, which is really what the Secret should be about. And I agree it's watered down “spiritual materialsm”, yet the same methods can be used for non-selfish things such as the well being of others in your life. Personally I view the Secret as a signpost that tells me, “What you know and feel to be the right course is indeed where you are supposed to be going.”

with love,

gypster

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it's probably no coincidence that the zeitgeist folks used krishnamurti to start the video. he taught against most forms of hierarchy and the utopian tech. society that their advocating is coincidentally non-hierarchical.. i am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the good folks at integral are going to deconstruct this one as having the green value meme written all over it!lol

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by the way, here is a link to the best analysis of the 1st zeitgeist film that i came across last year…….

Re: the 11th hour.....

That is a really good review and analysis of the first Zeitgeist movie. And Alex Jones has either been bought off, or he's just completely stupid. Only time will tell I suppose. Sometimes I suspect him of being “manufactured opposition” and sometimes he's just plain dumb or far out there. LOL But I can't deny what he's done to galvanize a lot of people into protesting, speaking out, etc…

As far as the societal structure presented to us in the second Zeitgeist movie, again it takes effort on all of our parts to keep tyranny, greed and selfishness from setting in. Even that guy, sheesh I can't remember his name, the creator of the Venus Project admits its not perfect. Because it's not the system that supports humanity, humanity is the support, groundskeeper and facilitator of the system (it should never be any other way, as we have learned with the current system) .This is done through proper education. And what do I mean by proper education? Well, people learn to be ethical and loving, or they learn to be selfish and mean spirited. Just think what the world would be like if there weren't so many broken homes, for instance?

Also, it's a fact that when people are comfortable (fed, clothed, in a clean, warm home surrounded by beauty) they tend to be less likely to be angry and do things against their nature. I have been in horrible situations and around horrible people and unfortunately I acted in ways that were not really in my nature, and I didn't even realize till I was away from those situations and people that I am very much different.

Side note: Now is this to be a spiritual debate of “happiness comes from within”? No. Why? Because it simply doesn't apply, since nasty people and situations put stress on anyone's system. Even SAINTS and angels. This is a fact. The whole idea that gurus and teachers and saints must be perfect in all ways is such garbage. If they were perfect then why are they here in this life school? LOL! Seriously folks, it's garbage. You needn't hold yourself or anyone else to such strict and impossible goals. Life is geared in your favor anyways, so there's really no right or wrong way, just as long as you are loving and hold yourself in “loving allowance” of all possibilities! ;)

So, back to the pseudo anarchist, sorta libertarian socialist society of the Venus Project.

I think it's utterly wonderful, but it will be up to us to maintain it as far as sheltering from “corruptions”. But really, once we (as a collective) are aware of the potential for corruption, we must educate future generations about such a possibility. This MUST be built in, and we must never, EVER lose control of the education of our children as we have in the last century.  It is this ONE thing that has brought us collectively to the situation we have with the NWO. Education starts at HOME with the parents as an example. We can all make a difference right now, just with our children. They must be taught how to critically think, to compare points of view. MOST importantly, utter respect and the highest regard and love for life in all forms must be passed from parent to child.

Advanced societies (Including but not limited to the Venus Project) can only exist in complete splendor if and when humanity is over it's mental illnesses, and I feel this is very possible within our lifetimes…. well at least the beginning will be seen. I'm excited to help facilitate this change.

with love my friends, thank you for sharing such an amazing journey with me. These discussions bring out much deep thinking for all of us!

gypster

PS..How funny that, today I came across a channeler that said, at the turn of the century the Library of Atlantis had been rediscovered. I IMMEDIATELY understood this symbolism to be the Internet. We must protect it at all costs. Use a proxy like ctunnel or jondo, or utilize open DNS if your broadband company decides to pull some douchebaggery and block certain sites/traffic (like encrypted connections, for example). I am also investigating how to become my own ISP. :D :D !!!

Re: the 11th hour.....

Oh and one more thing.  Vista is garbage. I will soon teach my computer how to fly. I am using this Pista machine right now (instead of the Mac) and it's a fresh install with no programs put on it. And it locks up every five minutes when I watch anything on google video or even a video from my PS3. I'm going to nuke it and replace it with mepis or ubuntu linux. LOL I know totally off subject but it kindof ties in with keeping the internet free and safe.. Microsoft is very much a predator company that wishes to OWN the internet and any Information Technology out there with it's crappy Operating System. So we must start seeking alternatives. Linux is FREE, and you can put Mepis or Ubuntu on any PC. If you are new to Linux, I suggest Mepis, since it's not very difficult to use. if you use your computer for basic functions (email, web, instant messengers, word processing, etc) you'll be able to make the transition. But if you need something like photoshop or flash (like myself!) I'd suggest a mac or just use gimpshop for photo manipulation. Again, it's FREE. How wonderful?

So maybe we can take a lesson from the GNU people that believe software is complimentary to humanity and should never be used to turn a huge profit. Ah, the new world is creeping in… :D :D :D

with love,

gypster

Re: the 11th hour.....

The fact that we are a dual being, or believe ourselves to be, is part of the problem.  We are in our natures as Humans.  However, the job it to join the two and to become one within.  Christianity as a religion has caused a great deal of the problem in that the Message was not received as it was delivered.  That man has corrupted or misunderstood the message does not undo the truths that were given.  This whole thing about the “Secret” is likewise, as the Bible's message is, somewhat true somewhat the result of a filter (human) of the message delivered it in a manner that makes it somewhat untrue.  You can sit around attempting to keep your mind filled with positive thoughts all you want and will receive some good results.  However, if this is done divorced from an understanding of your spirtiual nature, the divine spark inside of you, and to only receive in a material form, you aren't going to see a true change, a meaningful change, in your circumstances.  If it is done without seeking to  act as a creative force on this Earth, and done purely to get that new refrigerator, if it is done to selfishly profit, you aren't part of this new paradigim (which is actually regarded as new only because it has not been given recognition by society at large).  You will only be perpetrating that which man has been doing over and over as a result of incomplete understanding. 

Re: the 11th hour.....

I will never, ever catch up with this wonderful thread LOL! so this is not an attempt, I just want to thank all you beautiful people for your posts - andrew, Gypster, Alan, Jo and Opening, and make some fairly irrelevant remarks, not trying to equal your eloquence and depth!

On the evils of Microsoft - LOL! lots of great humour out there, I will dedicate some jokes today in the appropriate thread to you, my dear Gypster. I feel your pain!

Opening, what you say about the difference between the message of the gospel, the “Good News”, and the religion of Christianity can probably apply to every religion. And the Secret and “spiritual materialism” - glorious oxymoron if ever there was one, lol! - indeed, there are bits of the truth all over, even in the most unexpected places.

andrew, you have unerringly pointed out part of the enormous downside of Apocalyptic literature,  it has been badly twisted and misused. But Gypster, indeed, apocalyptic is about revealing the hidden, and we are promised that one day all that is hidden will become plain.

Jo and Alan, I am becoming more and more aware of how joy and awe and love and light transform everything. I am ever so grateful for your reminders!

Love, with much joy and delight,

Nicole

Re: the 11th hour.....

I want to clarify that I did not mean to communicate that there is no Truth within the Bible.  However, it is not the full truth and the words have been altered, either by poor translation or to direct man in a direction that would serve organized religion.  For me, there is just God.  By this I mean, it doesn't matter what you call Him, just call Him.  In the end, it is about being alone with the Lord. 

Re: the 11th hour.....

Your last sentence sums it up beautiful for me, Opening. Thank you!

Love,

Nicole