God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

It's interesting how some folks tend to take the spiritual game very seriously.

You see them here in Gaia quite often informing others about what “spirituality” is all about; what you must do or not do, say or not say. They tend to apply strict rules to the spiritual game, and woe be it, to any who break with those rules. (no doubt the rules were learned from some teacher somewhere).

They don't take kindly to conflict or disagreement of any kind (especially when it conflicts with the principles they espouse as “the truth”). When you do present an opposing viewpoint, they often attack you personally attempting to highlight any character defect that may have shown through your typed words (because obviously those who do not play by the rules must be a deviant of some kind)

Nevertheless, it is of the utmost importance that you take the rules seriously.

The problem with rules is that they tend to make the game finite, allowing for little change. Rules demand conformity to some teacher or text and they tend to box you into a belief system that allows little freedom of movement (the irony is that many of these serious dogmas actually claim that they will “set you free”).

But for the serious player, there must be rules because there must be winners and losers that we can easily identify. Of course, to be a winner in the spirituality game means you have attained the desired outcome. For some that outcome is simply to attain the title of teacher, guru, yogi, etc, etc. Obviously to win that title you must play by the rules that your guru followed, else you will not win.

Therefore, all the rules are fairly evident (though often unspoken) and based on past precedent. In other words, to be “awakened” like your guru, you must adhere to the strict practices and procedures as set forth by your guru's guru and his guru before him, etc, etc. Those that play the game by these rules may one day be granted the title of “awakened” (yet the rules do state that there can only be a limited number of winners) and will be afforded the reverence that the title deserves (based on the rules for the un-awakened).

However, there is another type of player that, although they recognize it's all a game, they love playing anyway. For those folks the object of the game is simply to continue playing by engaging as many players as possible. The only rule for those players is that there are NO RULES and the game is never-ending.

As if there were only one finite way or path to realize the infinite. LOL!

Happy Trails!

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Hi Mike,

I think we must have been writing our posts at the same time.

Given our very different perspectives on spirituality in this group, how do you think we can continue to deepen our dialogue?

Love,

Nicole

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i'll take a stab at that one nicole…..

it seems to me that if we are talking about spirituality defined as some unseen metaphysical presence then i can't see how humanity can ever come to a collective consensus on said unseen metaphysical presence or lack of. it seems obvious to me that this is true because if it wasn't there would only be one spiritual belief system on the planet that all would share without coercion or division. this is again, obviously not the case. now, if there were such a thing as an invisible metaphysical presence, theoretically it could reveal itself to all people overtly at some point so as to end all speculation, division and conflict. until such a time, my belief is that humans must learn to phrase their spiritual beliefs and faith in spiritual hypothesis, thereby allowing a sense of possibility but conceding the possibility of error too, at the same time. now this goes for all you eastern mystics also, who can be as dogmatic as anyone.

let me give you an exp.- take brother mikes or brother zack's writings and ideas on spiritual metaphysics- i really enjoy reading about these ideas and consider them working spiritual hypothesis. i have no idea whether they are ultimately ontologically true but i don't discard or denigrate the ideas and hell, i have a few of my own. let's suppose that somehow in a way that we simply cannot understand that the spirit of all things somehow manifested into human form 2000 years ago. it's my contention that this is not impossible and said spirit could and will eventually reveal itself to all the nations of the world with the net effect being the ushering in of a 'golden age' for all humanity. in other words, all the nations of the world will come to understand the truth, beauty and goodness of god thru the messiah figure and will willingly accept this truth as it is revealed to all. those who may for whatever reason refuse this truth ,beauty and goodness will be dealt with in a fair and just means in a similar way that any loving parent would usually chastise a child for correction for its overall  greater good. this idea of correction seems just a logical and reasonable (if not more so) then the working hypothesis of justice thru  the idea of reincarnation which may or may not be true……..
i hope this helps bothers and sisters…….

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

In response to Nicole's question as to how we “deepen the dialogue,” I would suggest we not take the dialogue seriously. Because if it's all a ‘game' does it really matter?

Once you take it seriously, then there is the tendency to apply rules to make it a serious game and we refer to that as “religion.” Religion tends to obstruct the possibility of ‘surprise,' because when you play by the rules you EXPECT an outcome and there's no surprise in that.

Of course, egos require rules to offset the potential for surprise because rules allow for “interpretation.' God forbid we should attain some ‘awakening' or ‘enlightenment' episode and not have the rules available (from some ‘teacher' or text) for which to interpret it AS ‘awakening.' LOL! That would suck, dude….

I have no problem with spiritual games since I enjoy participating immensely. Problem is for many folks it is NOT a game, but deadly serious. How can you be surprised, if you're so damn serious?

Nicole, what I like about your pod is that you have allowed for the ongoing possibility of surprise. Like how you picked moderators, many that are highly divergent in perspective and opinion, as if to say “surprise me!” Other pods take this very seriously.

I belong to several pods and I resist commenting in many because, although the rules are not written (although many are) they are strongly implied. Many pod's take their rules very seriously and, like a cloudy day, the light of surprise is obstructed.

Obviously, this opinion does not make me a popular person, especially with the serious players (and they have let me know this in no uncertain terms. LOL!). They don't expect to be surprised and so they don't like it when they ARE.

If we want to deepen the dialogue, simply deepen the opportunity for surprise. Expect to be suprised!

Peace Angels,
mike S

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Nicole, 

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

andrew, Mike, Alan:

andrew, right, it's a given that we will never all agree. I was just hoping for pointers on how we could improve the dialogue here. Any thoughts?

Mike, I still believe there is a method to the apparent madness with which I chose my mods! :) Though most of my mods doubt it, apparently! LOL! And even if it is a game, a game can be played better, right?

Alan, I am constantly torn between the truth of what you imply about silence being ultimately the only way to discourse about ultimate reality and the very human desire to explore all the nooks and crannies of what we think we see with our intellect. I appreciate that you tend to take a more playful approach, but do you have any other suggestions?

Love,

Nicole

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

I don't quite agree with myself in that silence is the only, or best, way.  : )

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

I tend to believe that the game is constantly changing and regenerating. It is simultaneously being played by everyone and by one individual. You as an individual play the game amisst billions of others but despite distractions that present themselves, the only important player to you is you. We each walk our own path. All paths lead to the same destination but different beings arrive at it at different times. Each path is like a mystery that unfolds as we travel it. The journey itself  is half the fun!

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

My thanks to those who have commented.
 

Its interesting that we would look to a conventional definition of ‘game' to uphold the seriousness of our spiritual play. For the serious player my opinions are almost sacrilege. How dare I impugn the sacred. Even for the devout spiritualist there are rules that must not be questioned.

Nevertheless, The definition as presented by Webster has all the ingredients of the modern spiritual game. It is often engaged for “amusement” or “diversion” (since how many of us live in a monastery or ashram like many serious players) and is often a very shady “racket” with numerous racketeers (gurus, priests, saints, teachers, masters, etc).

It has numerous strict rules and often involves a great deal of suffering (for many suffering, sacrifice and burden are paramount and the most important rule of play). Of course, there is also a great deal of “derisive or making jests” by the competing teams (Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Atheist, Advaitist, Integralist, New Age, etc, etc) and there is always the institutional field of “expertise,” codified either through text or “lineage” and expressed by those chosen as expert by a consensus of serious players (and of course all serious players want the title of expert, teacher, master, ambassador, spokesperson, etc, so it behooves them to identify other masters who can pass on the title to them. This is called the guru-master racket).

However, I love playing the spiritual game as well (it's “fun”) and, therefore, I have no intention of stopping play as I revel in it. For me the problem are the rules we tend to set depending on what team you play on. Many pods throughout Gaia adhere to such rules and thus, the play is no longer surprising, but serious players get points for adhering to the rules. Problem is this tends to limit the players who wish to bend the rules and so, they tend to move on.

I'm all for rules, since, in the game of life, we play by rules. The problem is when the rules become rigid and finite, allowing no transformation or transcendence from the rules. This tends to result in stagnation (and little opportunity for surprise) because folks tend to forget that it is a game that they have willingly chosen to play. Once you forget that you are playing a game, you become a serious player following serious rules that must not be changed. Centuries of war have erupted in just such a way.

Actually, I enjoy playing the game with serious players, but as indicated in this thread, they don't like playing with me.

Peace Angels,
mike S

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Mike S, you sound like the schoolyard bully.

If people want to treat things of the Spirit seriously, you're not going to stop them.

So there!!!!


An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Eli,

How interesting! It definitely throws a light upon in what manner and in what spirit communication is conducted.

But what I find most fasinating is that all people already knows this. It's just that we want to have an outlet, an escape clause if things get too burdensome. A game gives us room to play, and we can leave at any time.

So long…

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Things sound so lovely in this thread.  

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I agree that once we posit a destination we then have an outcome in mind with an associated expectation on experiencing that outcome. This is fine, however, I merely suggest for discussion purposes that once an outcome is expected, other unexpected outcomes might be missed and that would be unfortunate. Yet, this would apply as well to Ramtha's discussion on “superconsciousness.” That too, would be a destination and thus an expected outcome.

“there are rules, but they are only the rules of the interaction of energies within the universe.”

But, who determined the rules, God, the universe, us? Rules impose limits on what can or cannot be. Would a limitless God impose limits? Or is God limited? What are the rules of God's game?

“…enlightenment, superconsciousness, the kingdom of heaven, whatever you want to call it.”

But isn't what we call it significant in determining the game, rules, teams, winners, losers, etc?

In truth, our best teachers talk about the 'rules' all the time, but not in such a crude form that equates them with things schoolteachers tell us to keep us sitting in class quietly.

I agree and many seemngly profound rules have been expressed. But does it matter whether they are expressed crudely or profoundly?
Of course, the rule passed down for centuries tends to require profundity and 'wisdom'  in our teachers, otherwise we would ignore the teachings as not following the rule. But that doesn't necessarily mean the teachings are truth, only that they appear to be profound and wise.

Great comments!

Thanks,
mike S

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ya everyone, this is a cool thread.  : )

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

This is quite the thread, and very passionate, I must say!

Just don't forget that whoever you believe created us in one way or another had a sense of humor.  We see examples of it in our daily lives.  Would he/she/it have created penguins and playtapusses (whoa on the spelling of that one!), or helped give some on the idea of pinatas and balloons at parties?

Be careful about being too serious and too set in your ways, or you don't get nice surprises (think presents).  You end up getting horrible shocks (think having your house toliet papered by crazy teenagers), when it turns out you were way off base.

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Platypus, the plural is either platypus or platypuses.

When I went to school they were referred to as playpi, but with the invention of the wheel and fire, that's gone out of fashion.

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

That used to be one of my mom's pet peeves - platypi - as a teacher, she used to get annoyed when words were misused like that. For Latin-derived “us” endings, “i” is an appropriate plural because it follows the Latin declension. But this is not the case here as the “pus” refers to “foot”.

So, good thing they gave up on it, my friend! Less teachers will get high blood pressure over it :)

Hugs,

Nicole

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Next time I'll pick an animal I can spell all by myself
=)

And yes, 52 is SOOOO old.  I am even surprised that you can handle all this new-fangled technology, dear Andrew!

:rolls eyes:

Lovingly,
Jackie

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

It is really hard for me to think of spirituality as a game….spirituality literally saved my ass!!  I have always known God…gone to church, been active in the church community, and, I was dying….All of those years wasted to king alcohol and whatever the extra added chemical of the day was.  God would forgive me, my kids would forgive me, everyone would forgive me…what a joke!!!  It was not until i dragged my but in to recovery and found spirituality that I was truly forgiven…spirituality allowed me to forgive myself…..I did not really understand spirituality until i heard Spirituality is not for people that are afraid of going to hell, It is for people that have already been there….. I've been there, bought several t-shirts, and I do not want to go back.  So, have fun with your little game if you must, but, I can't play….No fuddy duddy here, just a very grateful, growing, hard knock kid.

I agree with Mr., however….half the fun is the journey…I know where I'm going, I just finally am learning to have an absolute ball while I'm trudging the path.  I can be spiritual and very silly, but, I can not play with my spirituality.  :-)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Missy, I don't think there is anyone here that doesn't realise there is a serious aspect to the Spiritual path.

Nor do I believe that anyone is being disrespectful.

But there are some issues that have to be approached in a light hearted manner to be able to share differences in the way Spirit has been revealed to individuals, without resorting to arguments or fighting.

God know enough blood has been shed over religious differences.

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Though I know “me too” answers can be annoying, I was so impressed by the way you responded to Missy, Andrew, that I just had to thank you for this. I love you both so much!

Hugs,

Nicole

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Missy has an excellent point. There are an awful lot of people who take their belief in God, be it religion or just spirituality, very seriously. Although I agree with Andrew that nothing posted here is meant to be disrespectful, some may take it as being disrespectful. It's a tricky line to walk when trying to playful with what many consider a serious subject. The most we can do is be mindful of how others may view what is posted before posting it.

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So are you saying that we should be careful not to disrespect those who are serious? But would that disrespect those who are NOT?

In fact, it does seem that serious players get a great deal more respect than non-serious players.

Maybe this is because the world tends to teach “no pain, no gain” and we have that conditioning imbedded in our minds. Therefore, we have little respect for those whose spiritual path does not convey that they have somehow sacrificed and struggled. We don't like slackers!

I suppose as long as there are serious and non-serious players, there will always be conflict between those two teams.

Peace Angels,
mike S

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Hi Mike, dabbling with semantics for a change?

I don't think conflict is inevitable but I think it is necessary.  Like a polishing stone on a diamond, I think it is important that people should be able to support their position, particularly if they are criticising someone elses faith.

I'm astonished at how precious some people are when, having berated someone else, you ask them a question and your accused of picking a fight, as a snow job for the fact they cannot support their own argument.

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

I don't think conflict is inevitable but I think it is necessary.  Like a polishing stone on a diamond, I think it is important that people should be able to support their position, particularly if they are criticising someone elses faith.

Yes and I'm no stranger to this idea of the need for conflict. I have been on many spiritual paths, from chanting in the ashram while pouring ghee over the Buddha, to staring at a wall in the monastery while somehow slaps me on the back with a whisk broom.

So why can't we simply dump our butts on the cushion and attain instant enlightenment? why go through all this sacrifice and struggle? My general thesis, which I don't believe disrespects anyone's path, is that there is no possibility of that since it is NOT expected and if you don't expect it's coming how can you be open to it the instant it arrives (whatever 'it' is). No, what we do expect is many years of serious struggle and sacrifice and the expected outcome will be ours. I'm not saying this is wrong or right. But could this teaching obstruct NOW?

I simply ask, why would we expect that? Why do we believe it is necessary? Who decided that we should take those rules seriously? God? The Absolute? Universal Consciousness?

Peace Angels,
mike S

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

My favourite read in that respect and I've mentioned it before, is “The Lazy Mans Guide to Enlightenment”, by Thaddeus Golas.

But noone paved the way to my door when I mentioned it then, and I doubt anyone will now.

The principle of “Enlightenment” is so simple you need help to misunderstand it.

(Did you REALLY take a flogging?)

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Andrew, I'm interested, tell me more about the book please.

Mike, it sounds like your search was really intense. What was the turning point for you to bring you to your current perspective?

Love,

Nicole

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Thank you so much, Andrew, for what you sent me from the Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment.

I really enjoyed this introductory story and the rest would make a great basis for a discussion - I'll start another thread:

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

amen.

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

The “instant enlightenment” thing almost happened to me once.  I was sitting meditating and suddenly I realized that I was agreeing to suffer, and I decided to stop.  

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Excellent insight, Alan, the seemingly instantaneous the culmination of everything before.

Love,

Nicole

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Thank you!

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

However, although I agree that we 'perceive' evolution all around us (an issue of appearances?), evolution asserts a becoming, less so a being. Evolution is more a 'not just yet' as opposed to a 'now.' If I'm searching then what am I looking to find that I don't already have?

If I consider my spiritual path part of my evolution or becoming, could I miss NOW? Or is it possible to incoporate a being and a becoming, which would be paradoxical because for most, we are either there or NOT there (based on whatever spiritual outcome identified as 'there'). Eckhart Tolle claims to have had one of those spontaneous moments of clarity without any preparation. Problem is the guy then got all serious about it and went about setting rules telling everyone else how to correctly prepare for NOW. HA!

Nicole, I have always embraced my 'doubt' rather than seeking out a spiritual anchor (teacher or path) for which to keep from drifting all over the place. Currently the “perspective” is more of a drift, but even more about exploring the fear that my meaningless drifting might cause me, since the 'self' requires anchoring. I tenuosly sense the answer is in the fear of having no direction whatsoever (but then some might say that's a direction, too).

Peace Angels,
mike S

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

But what in the universe is not evolving, growing, expanding?  To be is to evolve.  to evolve is to be.  

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Hi Alan,

Love your thinking, dude!

But what in the universe is not evolving, growing, expanding?  To be is to evolve.  to evolve is to be.  

Yes, and that does seem to be a rule of “existing, and of course we all seem to play by that rule for the most part. But if the universe is in your head, then who set the rule? In addition if the rule is impermanence and all is in flux, what has determined that this flux or impermanence is moving toward something at all, let alone toward something that is 'evolved' to more than what it was before. Maybe all spirituality/religion is merely a product of conventional wisdom which posits that evolution is good, thus we look for the signs of what has never existed. Of course, we only know evolution from sensory data, but then who trusts that! or is sensory perception a rule of play.

We can play the game by any rules we choose. Or are there specific finite rules that must be followed to attain the infinite? 
However, once we decide that we must conform to some rules and not others, we have defined the  game and, once we choose to take any rule seriously the game is finite. It's fixed and we may not allow other rules to even be considered. If evolution is the rule then are we limited by that rule? Must we 'evolve'? or is there some other way? Once you posit evolution, are you then victim to 'time'? If we posit that evolution is the only way, that's fine, just recognize that there can be no other (at least not to the one who adhres to that rule).

At least we can all agree that we love playing…

Great Stuff!
mike S

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

: )

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

G'day Alan,

I think you're drawing a long bow with some of your assumptions.

I'm not an authority on any of the sacred scriptures of the world but you seem to be riding rough shod through territory in a few moments that would have seasoned Masters contemplating for hours or days.

Your assumptions leave a lot more questions than they answer.

I'm sure God is amused but some of His adherents might not be.

I think you should give some thought in your expression to allow those that might be perplexed at your mode of thinking, the opportunity to understand what the point is your trying to make.

In love, of course.

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

: )

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

haha, whups! there's a typo above.  The quote from jesus is about your neighbor's wife, not your neighbor's thoughts…. 

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we gotcha.
=)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

I agree with you about right thoughts, Alan, and I asked the same question of my Pastor.  Being married I needed to know if I was on my way to hell because I couldn't control the fact that naughty ideas pop in - they just happen!

They way in which that was explained to me was even more based on a historical context.  Men in those days could divorce their wives for any reason whatsoever.  If they lusted for another woman, if she browned the bread too much, it didn't matter.  So many woman were on the streets, homeless.  They couldn't go back to their families because they would be a burden and no one wanted a divorced woman, so Jesus made that extreme statement to help create balance, so the streets weren't overflowing with homeless women and their children.

The same with scripture about woman not having roles of authority within the church.  Those rules were created because women were actually getting a little roudy and causing quite a bit of trouble, so extreme statements were made to create balance.

This, of course is just theory.  I have a Baptist Minister for a grandpa, so we get into it a lot.

Peacefully,
Jackie

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Hi Jackie,

Thanks, it's lovely to have you sharing your thoughts here. There are quite a few thorny verses to work through, good to have a Baptist minister grandfather to help!

Hugs,

Nicole

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

My my how sensitive you are Alan,

I thought you were a serious player playing a serious game.

You have ridden roughshod over the sensitivities of many whose beliefs you planely distain.

I can't help wondering why you feel you have to prove your bona fides by resorting to big words and oblique references to how much time you have given to comparative study. 

Jesus said the letter kills, the Spirit gives life, or have you found a way to manipulate that to your way of thinking?

Jesus also said Resist not evil.  From your oppositional post you clearly see me as Satan to your form of religion, which is a pity. 

However I'll get over it.

I love you my friend but I'd ask you to demonstrate more respect towards the beliefs of others that share this website

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

It would seem that fear of no direction is a kind of direction - also an understandable fear, Mike. Directionality seems deeply a part of us.

Alan, I haven't heard these concepts referred to before as red and green lions. Cool!

Love,

Nicole

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Although I believe that what you say or write should be respectful to others beliefs it is good to try and push the envelope to get people to reach beyond their comfort zone. It is reaching beyond our comfort zones that makes us grow. It is important to be careful however (as a pdersonal safety issue) to do things in a respectful manner so as not to piss off someone or some group who takes religion a bit too seriously and marks you for retribution.

Its not always what is said but how it is said. There is a fine line and an art to writing things that are profoundly thought provoking without insulting someone. That is why this blog makes for good practice because, if you write something that offends someone's beliefs, they will let you know it. I am thankful that Nicole had the foresight to create it and still spends unknown hours daily commenting.

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Mr and Andrew, thank you. I am very grateful for the way that members like you follow the discussion here so closely and with such concern and attention for the thoughts and feelings of others.

Mr, I like the idea of pushing beyond our comfort zone to grow. I believe this is what Alan, Mike and Bjorn have been trying to do, each in his own way. I didn't read Alan's words as disrespectful, but maybe that is partly through familiarity with him. The more we get to know each other, the easier it is to hear the true intent behind the words we read.

Love,

Nicole

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I understand NIcole you may be familiar with Alan but unfortunately the Bible is an easy target, and I know people get really upset when others mess with it.  Particularly when it is manipulated almost beyond recognition by someone that appears to have little regard for it.

If Allan wants to start messing with scripture perhaps he could consider doing the same with the Koran and see how far he gets before a price is put on his head.

I'm not looking for trouble.  I just ask that Alan demonstrate the same respect towards others that he appears to demand for himself.

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Andrew,

So, in fact, are we setting a rule of not disturbing those who are serious about the bible? But should we respect those who are NOT serious about scripture? Should it not be manipulated? And how much seriousness or regard should we afford the bible or any other religious text? Should religious texts be attended to with respect or just those who take the texts serious? What type of respect should be given? should we not speak God's name in vain, since the rule of eternal damnation has been determined by many religions. We have to wonder, is that God's rule or religions?
I don't feel the question is whether or not we should have rules, since we have rules about everything? The question is how seriously do we adhere to the rules. Of course if we're not serious enough, then it all becomes a game. Does Spirit have anything to do with our rules or have we just imposed our rules upon Spirit thereby cutting ourselves off from it?

Inquiring minds want to know….

Peace Angels,
mike S

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

This was such a nice thread, with such interesting ideas.  It's a shame for such things to get diverted because one person accidentally insults others.  

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Hi Mike and Alan,

I don't recollect, nor do I have the authority, to set 'rules' as you well know. 

The one thing that sets Gaia.com apart is the respect and tolerance that individuals demonstrate towards each other.

I don't judge one faiths scriptures to be any more or less Spirit inspired that any other, but to change a scripture to suite a particular viewpoint is going beyond the boundary of respect and good taste.

Arguing doctrine is an entirely different matter.  Doctrine being the interpretation of the scriptures of any particular faith, from which religion and dogma enter the equation to control the adherents of that particular faith.

If I am wrong gentlemen I will publicly and unequivocally apologise.

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Andrew,

my questions were not in relation to finite or fixed rules within Gaia, but more in relation to rules of any spirtual game.

I don't judge one faiths scriptures to be any more or less Spirit inspired that any other, but to change a scripture to suite a particular viewpoint is going beyond the boundary of respect and good taste.

But, of course, in your life you adhere more to some spiritual paths as opposed to others, thus you do judge, we all do. You seem to be saying that you have determined a rule that such judgments should not be expressed in Gaia, since this is Gaia's rule (I think).
However, in relation to Nicole's initial question about how to deepen the dialogue, my question is that, if we withhold our judgments and reserve our comments in the service of respect and tolerance, do we thus oppress the dialogue as opposed to deepening it?
if I was a satan worshipper would I be afforded the same respect and tolerance as the student of scripture? if not, why not?
My point is not to identify your statement as right or wrong, simply to identify the rules that we take serious in the spiritual games we play and do they limit us or liberate?

Thanks : )
mike S

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

G'day Mike

If you wanted to draw from Bibliothèque de l'Arsenal, or it's English translation The Book of Abramelin then that's up to you.  I beleive Satanism is a recognised system of religion though I have had little to do with it. 

I know we have Wiccan adherents on Gaia as well.

The Spiritual path I follow is not in contradiction to any scripture of any faith I have read.  Certainly I'm considered a heretic according to Christian doctrine, an infidel according to Islamic doctrine a gentile according to Judaic doctrine etc etc. but these doctrines have been created from the interpretation of the scriptures, generally designed to control there adherents.

The scriptures I'm most familiar with are the Judeo-Christian scriptures and that is why I quote them the most often but I've read scripture from nearly every major religion in the cosmos. I could make exactly the same points using the Hindu scriptures or Confucianist scriptures, it would just take a lot longer to find the relevent references (a lot longer).

I don't know which scripture path your referring to that I most adhere to.

But it was the interfering with and altering those scriptures that I know people find insulting and disrespectful.

And I'm speaking as an Ambassador of Gaia, my personal opinion is irrelevant.

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

if you're considered a heritic… well, why are different viewpoints so offensive?

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

G'day Alan,

I'm going to quote George M. Lamsa, an Assyrian born scholar who grew up in an area that still used the same Aramaic language (Syriac) that would have been used in Jesus's time.  His bio is here.

Ref. to “Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.” (Mat 5:5)

This beatitude is an Oriental proverb still commonly used.  It refers to the type of man who does not retaliate and who is free from that grasping temper which leads to disputes and quarrels often ending up in bloodshed and murder,  Such men believe in nonresistence and submit to injustice even at great inconvenience.  They seldom protest to the rulers of the earth but in their supplications they always remind God of their heavy burdens.  They are at last rewarded for their oppressors and persecutors generally perish in wars and revolutions.

It is still customary in the East, when a man dies or is killed in war, leaving no male heir, his land is turned over to the meritorious meek.  Landlords furthermore invariably prefer to lease their vineyards and farms to men of character who are responsible and reliable.  The meek are thus ultimately blessed and rise in power and prosperity.

-Gospel Light, Page 26, by George M. Lamsa

I don't know what meek means to you Alan but that sounds like a clear definition of the word to me.

An eccentric Australian (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Thank you, we can now agree on a working definition of meek.  

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

I have no disagreement with you on that score Alan,

You have been here a lot longer that I, so I'm sure it hasn't escaped your notice that there are traditional enemy's sharing space here at Gaia.  It can only work if there is mutual respect, that respect being for the foundation for ones belief system.  In most cases that will be related to writings that have been passed down, generation after generaton, meticulously copied by scholars singled out for that work.

To offer dignity and respect and withdraw judgement for someone elses faith mixed with love and a gentle approach in matters pertaining to discussing those differences makes Gaia.com unique.

I've made my point, can we move on now?

An eccentric Aussie (or village idiot)

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

it has escaped my notice.  enemies?   I don't really vibrate that way…. I believe everything is one.  Therefore, no one has enemies, we only have misunderstandings with  each other.

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Who knows what the Sanskrit Word “Kridaratnam” means?

Want to add an article from Gwen Gordon:

PLay: The Movement of Love

And subsequent one co-written by Gwen Gordon and Sean Esbjörn Hargens:

An Exploration Of The Playground And The Evolution Of The PLayer

Enjoy,

Albert

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Albert, I really appreciate your second link and I think I would enjoy the first - except it doesn't work. Would you fix it, please, so we can see what it says?

Love,

Nicole

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Nicole,

try this:

PLay: The Movement of Love

It should work and was originally posted for the Play Pod.

Albert

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Ah, it's in the same thread as the other post, higher up! I see it now, and it is even more delightful than I hoped. Thank you. For example, this part:

When we play, we enter the creative current of possibilities, the self-organizing force of the whole cosmos, as active participants. Before the human, all animals were specialized for particular niches. We have the flexibility of the cosmos dancing right in our neurons, enabling us to move into any niche and explore the whole world as a playground.

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

As i read the essay Albert linked to I thought, 'okay another merging of the child-like paradigm of play into the adult play paradigm.' but then I came to this:

The philosopher James Carse, in a brilliant little book called Finite and Infinite Games, describes the difference between finite and infinite play. Finite play has rigid limits, rules, winners and losers, and does not include everybody in the game. Infinite play, on the other hand, changes the rules as needed and includes everyone. The whole purpose of infinite play is to keep the play going. Now we can see a little more clearly what has gone awry in our world. Without caring connection, infinite play becomes finite. With high stakes, winners and losers, it takes itself very seriously and when you take things too seriously you end up dropping bombs. The ultimate expression of finite play is war.

But in infinite play, everything-war, death, deadlines, annoying bosses, barbed wire fences, fear and terrorism-can all be brought into the play. This implies that it's possible to get to the source of being that lets you sing and dance no matter what else is going on. When our sense of well-being comes from a deep enough intimacy with the Universe, there's nothing to win or lose. We can risk anything. We can trust that no matter how foolish, confused, or inept we might be, we will not fall out of the web of life. Being held keeps us from holding back from the world and lets us participate play-fully.

I feel the author has adequately, but not comprehensively, provided an excellent encapsulation of Carse's chief ideas. Foremost being that play is one paradigm (not two) and not extracted from childhood and amenable to only certain areas or specific domains of adulthood, but applicable across the board in all domains of adult living.
In fact, death is itself a game and for most a very serious game with strict rules. But what if we changed the rules. Would we then take it less seriously? Would we then be open to “suprise” (one of Carse's chief concepts, similar in many ways to 'enlightenment')

On my blog I have extrapolated some of my own ideas from Carse's book with direct quotes from the author here

Peace Angels,
mike S

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Mike,

I am especially referring to the lengthy article from AQAL JOurnal.

What astonishes me most that either child like play is associated or “serious” spiritual striving.

In the real world with so much vmemetic complexity and monstrous dimensions (Sloterdijk 2007 at Royal Albert Academy in Belgium)
have to be taken into account it should be celar that advanced adult play in utter complexity is a challenge!

I am in contact with an Austrian German Game designer who is developing something in this direction. She adresses the emerging dynamics between female and masculine energies too  -besides other diversity generators .in a wide historic context.

Howard Bloom is one those brilliant veterans who always was into it.

The ultimate Master Game dimensions include necessarily the dimension of birth, transcendence, transformation and death.

But it has to be lived, breathed and felt, as KW says in the quote of my profile page.

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

I love this all!

Re: God is a Serious Game for Serious Players Only!

Jackie,