Has anyone actually DONE something?

I just read through a few posts here, specifically the one about the lack of posts.

I also saw Janos' blog post about being banned for writing:

“This community is full of stunning imagery and wording of spirituality but I confess to being confused and saddened by the seeming lack of awareness that every minute of the time while we are thinking of spiritual development hundreds of children die of starvation related diseases.”

That's pretty much where I'm at.    While I've done an enormous amount of writing, suing and lobbying for 15 years and I failed with all my efforts, I finally got a clue after watching the documentaries at http://creditfactors.com/resistance/viewforum.php?f=2

I can't believe how much time I wasted, I had no idea that my efforts were doomed.

NOTHING will change until people take the power from the bankers and billionaires by refusing to finance them.  I defaulted on over $90,000 in credit cards, take THAT, Chase, Citi, HSBC, GE and Bank of America!

In fact, my biggest accomplishment to date is that at least some of my readers and clients followed my advice since I started to advocate that near judgment-proof people should default on unsecured debt almost a year ago.

Earlier this year I found out about the Common Good Bank and William Spademan.  While I was busy wasting my time and money  on efforts that couldn't possibly produce the desired results, he came up with the solution to ALL the world's problems.

Please watch the slides-how at http://commongoodbank.com/

William already set up several organizations such as the Society to Benefit Everyone at http://s2be.org/ - I just noticed a whole bunch of new stuff, will have to read that.

The only problem is that it takes $1.5 million to start the bank.  I've been getting people to sign up for the bank because it was supposed to open next year.  The CEO is in place, salary negotiated, BUT, now there's not one penny for the start-up capital, in part because only millionaires can invest (American banking law) and they've obviously lost a lot of money in the markets and that makes an excellent excuse to say “no.”

So unless Janos can get his hero George Soros to drop some spare change, (not a gift, but investment in CGB stock with a guaranteed return of about 6% last time I checked), I'd like to focus on actually getting started doing something PRODUCTIVE.

It's easiest to start with a non profit membership organization and/or co-op.  Once there are several hundred PAYING members, it's time to organize a credit union or find an existing credit union to join (unless the CGB opens), contact merchants for member discounts and get serious about creating a market place and MAKE money to fund development of the CGB voting software (see the slide-show) and start different projects.
 
The concept:  TAKE the profits from the corporations to fund projects as decided on by the members. 

And, of course membership should also result in SAVINGS, think Costco or Sam's club, but more focused on organic foods and green products.

If SUCCESSFUL, it will change the world.   First you have to show the general population that this WORKS and then it's easy to get enough VOTERS to truly make a difference.

To get started, it takes people willing and able to WORK or PAY.

Either people pay enough to HIRE someone to write the voting software OR someone writes it.

So this is my plan, what's yours?

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

I think for your plan, you must seriously consider the role of consumerism in America and what effect this has on the corporate world.
I think this is so large, that changing corporation or big money makers has no effect.
I think that is an effect from consumerism. And so it isn't stoped, it is just temporarily quelling the effect.
If you want to make an effect, change consumerism.
Which I think, you might not even be aware of.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

HUH?

Frederik, I think people like you are the essence of the problem. 

You have done NOTHING except to discourage others from doing SOMETHING.

I see you're Dutch, but your English is quite good.    Which part of the Common Good Bank slide show did you NOT understand?

CONSUMERISM is what makes this incredible plan work!

Every time somebody buys something through the organization, a percentage goes the buyer and to the organization.

Once the organization has several million members, it can negotiate deals on EVERYTHING. 

It can make GM give back the pensions they stole from their employees – if they're still around.

It can PURCHASE entire corporations, allowing the workers to OWN their company and create a democratic workplace.

It can have laws changed.

And if in any given country more people like this new system better than the old system, they'll change EVERYTHING and it will be THE system.

I've spent at least 20 hours studying the materials at the common good bank site including the financials and while I declined to be on the advisory board because of my radical opinions (telling people to stop paying their debts won't help get investors), I got access to their development site with a lot of info on the work they already completed.

Frederik, I know, it's a four letter word:  WORK.

Even worse, for the most part UNPAID work.

And there you are, you've never DONE anything and you don't want to do anything EXCEPT to keep others from changing the world.

GOOD JOB!

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

I find your reply somewhat offence, most because you make rapid judgements about my person, when you don't even know them. These are material fallacies, ad hominem, and the first 3 sentences are all part of them.


First of all, I cannot relate to the idea, for I do not have the economics reason, or Big governemt problems that are the reason for the insurection of the CGB. I still have the same form, but my governement handles them different, and the economical common sense is different here.

I can seriously not see, why when I buy something, I would get a percentage back. What is the use of that? It just brings more (and thus expensive) bureacracy with it, wasting part of the money, making things overly expensive.

Most organizations, both political, social and economical already have thousands to millions of members. Stock-holders, Unions and political parties are all sort of organization.
One cannot negotiate deals on everything internerly, that would first of all obsolete the use outward reflection, and nuanciation. Because they don't need to look outward anymore. A democracy will then fall to a plutocracy, seriously undermining governement, and hence the entire people. (assuming it was democratically chosen) In a not democratic country, you would simply be killed for conspiracy against the state. Second, you will never find a million people, with their ranges of influence spread out enough, to decide everything, that do not have contradictive agenda's and contradictive opinions about the ending result.


''It can PURCHASE entire corporations, allowing the workers to OWN their company and create a democratic workplace.''

You are perfectly describing one of the main points of marxistic communism. Now, I don't have anything against socialism, but since most Americans do, I thought I would just let you know.


'And if in any given country more people like this new system better than the old system, they'll change EVERYTHING and it will be THE system.''  That is called a revolution, And I am hopeing you are not seriously publicly posting your ideas to revolt against your governement?


Now the last few lines are offensive too, you seem to assume that, you have done much unpaid work, at that therefore you are better then me. Which is strange for you don't know me, you don't even know what I do for kind of work. And how I effect the world with it.

Personally, I know I change the world around me, and I get to hear that on a weekly basis. Sure, I begin with changing my surroundings, but in doing so, I thouroghly change the world around me, which due to its nature. Changes the world. If you want to know what I do, just ask. Don't assume I don't do anything. And please, look at my message, and see how it doesn't makes remarks of what kind of person you might be.

I must be honest, nobody has ever talked to me filled with so much prejudice on this site. (and yes, that last line was an assumption on your personality)
I must say, I am shocked.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

aside from the ad hominems (i agree domus) i can safely say that it's a great idea that will never happen because if it were to come close to happening the fiat 'emperors' would assassinate the ceo's….
the stakes are too high and the fiat 'emperors' are too close to implementing their agenda of complete worldwide domination. one doesn't just turn the other cheek and love your enemy when the agenda is so close to being fulfilled after centuries and or millennia……

good luck though, we're all going to need it………..

but yeah, if i'm wrong and one of these banks does open i'd be down for signing up…………………….

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

This is a thought provoking discussion. But before posting a more detailed contribution, allow me to step in in the capacity of a moderator and try to cool this discussion before it develops into a “flame war” or the departure of offended parties.

Frustration explains, but does not condone, remarks that can be taken –with justification—as offensive.

This site is essentially about groups of people attempting to achieve an “impossible mission”—…working together to subdue the (roughly) ten thousand year old conspiracy of a minority to dominate and exploit the surplus labour of the majority.

This requires a will to collaborate—work together. That means a determination to be slow to take offence and slow to make rush judgments. So please give ourselves time to understand where we, each of us, are coming from and why*. This may seem that we would never get to doing something worthwhile together. But this is the price of true democracy. Eventually, real break-troughs come out of genuinely shared vision.

*For example, Frederik frankly admits that he has no serious economic concerns about his own situation; but that does not mean that he is necessarily indifferent to the plight of those who do suffer serious deprivation regarding basic necessities others take for granted.

Will to work together also means that we are open to have our horizons broadened and our thinking and insights deepened.

I hope that all this does not sound pompous or preachy; that is not how I feel. I am really writing out of a fear that this little spark of activity (deep thinking and talk is a form of action) will fizzle out, like the other threads, through lack of patience due to difficulties in communicating views that are important to us as individual seekers for truth (with small “t” :-), fairness and justice.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Janos, I wasn't looking for discussion and I thought my subject consisting of 5 common words was rather self explanatory.

Obviously, nobody here has DONE anything worth posting and I'll be on my way …

You seem like someone who cares, good luck to you!

Sorry to have disturbed this group.

Christine

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

i consider myself officially spanked!lol

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Christine, I am sorry you do not find helpful the kind of discussion I am trying to encourage here.
I may not have done anything in terms of achieving them  but I damn well have tried  many things over some 40 years.
A brief account of  the last project I was involved with, a housing co-operative, is posted at my linkedin profile if you care to look at it. Plans involved starting a Credit Union, registering the housing co-operative to provide the “common bond”, buying a Scottish island called Gometra and establishing a village-size community. We, also, declined the Credit Union route (too much bureaucracy) and found a backer instead. And that was the beginning of the end.

So forgive me if I am a bit disappointed at the shortness of your patience when it comes to discussion and the need to hammer away at the process of creating shared vision.
The frustrating thing about being a radical reformer is that working with others can be extremely trying yet, alone, we cannot really achieve anything really world-changing.

A remark, before I go, about starting a bank. The million and half dollar is just the first hurdle. That lets you into the kindergarten, letting you establish a “deposit taking institution” and lending out other people's money. The mega-trillion dollar game takes place at another table, a “credit issuing institution” where you can manufacture money virtually out of nothing and call it your own.
Lending each others money would not even rattle the the established powers that be.

Been there, tried that and does not work; something else is called for. Something that would take a ten-year stint if things go well–five if wome miracles help out.

I do care, and will continue to care.

Christine, won't you reconsider?

Janos

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Janos, 

The CGB (Common Good Bank) follows the same rules as Chase and Citi and it would be able to CREATE money just like any other bank subject to the same fractional reserve lending requirements.   Unlike other  banks, it expects account holders to purchase stock, thereby further increasing capital and enabling it to create more money.

And once the CGB has been around for a couple years, do you really think that many WORKING people will rather bank at Chase or Citi?

As I mentioned, my posts here weren't an entire waste of time  because they got me started with my next project.  But I really don't think that I benefited in any way from Frederik's responses, other than to once again realize that I need to do my own thing:

http://creditfactors.com/resistance/viewforum.php?f=13

Moderation will be brutal and if history repeats itself, it won't be long until I start a “moron” topic.  I'm not looking for votes, so I can do that.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Christine,

I really like your description of the gaia space. Also appreciate you looking for more than just discussion about what could or should be done.

I believe that alternatives will benefit if things do collapse. Otherwise, the system will kill them off as soon as they become a real threat through succeeding in their aims.

Congratulations for setting up the credit factors site. I truly hope that you will attract some good co-workers and get some projects off the ground and making an impact.

I stay with my convictions that it is our money and our economy that was stolen and is being stolen. And it is really a matter of exposing the illegitimacy and fraudulency of the various power structures like banks, corporation, collusive governments.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Although I would not have used the same tone to say it, Christine is right that the system is not going to change because good people say it cannot be changed:

…will never happen because if it were to come close to happening… etc., etc.

Frederik, pleas do not take it as an offence, but it is not established that consumerism, per se, drives the growth of rapacious corporations.

It is equally logical, and more productive of possible solutions, to argue that radical reform of Corporation Law would curtail the power of corporations to brainwash over decades, a whole continent of people (watch “The People’s Century”) into the belief that the purpose of life is work in order to by more and more things.

The politically inclined members of these brainwashed masses then collude by making out that buying more and more things is essential for keep an economy healthy and growing. Insatiable consumption is then elevated to the level of patriotism by the servants of the status quo.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

No, indeed Consumerism is indeed not the PER SE cause of expantion of Hedge fund like corporations. but Consumerism is the equation of personal happiness with the purchase of material possessions and consumption. Usually these corporation are also consumerists. For a non-consumerist, wouldn't see the use of such a company, they wouldn't have the gathering and dispensing of money as 'fun'. Or a profession, because for fact, you don't make anything, but money. no products, nor service, nothing.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Christine - thanks for digging this up. I have been thinking in these lines recently and off and on for years. I haven't absorbed the overall dynamic of the CGB system, but it seems to hold some promise.

I don't see clearly yet how the two currencies, local and corporate are held in balance or how the value and availability of the local currency is initially determined, and maintained. I'll keep letting it sink in. Any insight on these points? Like the central banks use average cost of living and stuff like that; how would these things be managed by the CGB? Democratically using the voting software, similar to a parecon?

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Arinaya,

The central banks do NOT hold the supply of money in balance.  In fact, the Americans created over $4 trillions in the last year just to support failing banks and insurance companies according to CNBC:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/27719011

You really need to watch The Money Masters, Money As Debt and if you read, get Ellen Brown's Web of Debt.  Here are the links:

http://creditfactors.com/resistance/viewforum.php?f=2

I don't know how the CGB plans on valuing and issuing the “Goods” as they call them.  And that I was told that “the computers” would take care of that and I didn't have to worry about it was a bit of a turnoff.

But, it doesn't matter because I'll be creating the Trado and I'm in the process of setting up a blog at http://trado.info/

It'll be a PayPal imitation with the option to use the Trado.  Initially the Trado will be very freely distributed, every new member gets a few, every active member gets monthly credits and Trados are created by exchanging dollar for members.

The market value is initially pegged to the US$, but if inflation hits hard, we'll either have to adjust the exchange rate or give everybody a percentage of their Trado balance and increase credits.  That'll likely be determined by the MERCHANTS, as they are funding the organization with dollars (transaction fees similar to Visa/MC and/or discounts)  to pay expenses that require dollar payments.  If the merchants are opposed to anything but 1 : 1 exchange, then that's probably what it should be.  Unless we have so many merchants that we don't care to lose a few.

I'm also thinking about exchanging dollars for more than par to get dollars for operating expenses, to encourage the use of Trados and to finance loans to members in foreclosure, etc.  The banks won't take Trados, so we'll need dollars and then the home owner has a low or no interest Trado loan. The details will have to be worked out.

Primarily I'm applying concepts from the CGB and Richard C. Cook.    I'd love to have him as an advisor or director.

Last night I posted at my main site that I expect 40 volunteer hours before paying an hourly fee to independent contractors for IT, tech support, programming, etc., but today I realized that there really is no need for volunteers, EVERYBODY should get paid and initially it'll be in a paper balance of Trados which will be credited to their account as soon as we have the software up and running.  After 40 hours it'll be a split of Dollars / Trados.  

It's great to be able to CREATE the money and not just for debt, but for ANYTHING where it's accepted.  Of course the primary criteria is to ensure that members have plenty of Trados to spend, but not enough to flood the market. 

I've posted many objectives at http://creditfactors.com/resistance/viewforum.php?f=13 and the next step is to incorporate of form an LLC and then open a bank account.  Members can't fund their accounts without banks and I hope the CGB will eventually open.

If not, we might have the startup capital in a few years.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Christine - thanks for the reply.

I wasn't trying to imply that existing banking institutions are capable of holding anything in balance: obviously, they are not.

I'll join Trados. We seem to be thinking in similar lines.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Arinaya, I saw you registered.  I've been totally overwhelmed by the Drupal installation.   It could be that this Gaia system here is based on Drupal, the features are similar and it's takes a lot of time to set everything up.

For the Trado banking, I decided to go with a Dutch firm that specializes in hosting complementary currency systems and it will be as secure as any bank. 

So I have two new systems to learn, the Trado banking system should be set up this weekend. 

Unfortunately, I have to drive to town now, do some banking.   The first time in my life that I'll be shopping the day after Thanksgiving.   Can't make the 110 mile round trip just to go to the bank.

At Trado may still be problems with registered users being able to see and do everything as planned, I haven't done any testing on this 3rd and hopefully final install of Drupal.

Please post in the forum FAQ any questions, problems and especially what you're interested in.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Another problem with discussion is there may be several viewpoints but some are more productive of insights than others.
Consumerism is too general a phenomenon to point to.
I think that the desire for providing employment to everyone who needs an income explain the growth model of economics better. It also points to the need for a civilised response to poverty — even in the richest countries — in the form of universal minimum income (not minimum wage).
Right now, we are living through the proof that the basic problem of capitalism is its inability to distribute all the products and services it can and wants to produce through a market system that can only “see” effective demand — demand backed by sufficient purchasing power.
An unconditional minimum income would also be a means of granting the most basic of human rights — an unconditional right to have basic needs satisfied; needs which are essential for a healty life — a right to which the employment system cannot respond.

This is really an economics and distribution related view. But it is our economic behaviour that is killing the environment.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Einstein said something like - You  cannot solve a problem with the same mindset that made the problem in the first place.


solution  :- get out of money-systems as much as possible within  common-sense… nature wil sort out the rest.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

How is that workng for you?

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Denote the Irony:
Even though Einstein made this quote,
He never got round to understand it. for he tried to solve the problem, in a mindset he didn't posses :P

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Well , Einstein , and many of these great people did they all keep there ideas to themselves , and is this maybe , just why, nothing was solved?
Yet what if you get all the modern day Einsteins of this world together ,and gather around , and brainstorm , network.
When we hold it in , and try to keep this to ourselves , it is a form of greed. As this person wants to be know of their discovery.
Yet what if it is many minds , many many minds, discovering , many,Things.
What we need to do is gather all around the table , and focus on how we can pull this off.
I have an idea , yet I can , and will not do this on my own. Or wil I say this is mine all mine.
This is about many coming together for UNITY.
There is a place here , and what we need to do is get countries , to link together, to form links. Under one site.
Yet they all would have their own sites.
The site would have to be huge, and able to hold many , may round tables.
We would interlink as one.
The huge countries , and countrie that have more money would have to invest , and help the other , less , and pooer countries ,s o the have their Leaders , and team members.
We need to start working together here on Gaia.
Promoting our plan, our site.
Also networking with other sites, businesses, companies, etc.
We would have layers within this site.
There also wil be a Gaia Global where w will have our news around the World, and much other thing to promote our movement.
We need to start working soon, and gather soon as many as the clock is ticking.
The time is NOW…

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

UNITY IS STRENGTH

UNITY

Please visit us on Gaia , and join our community.
If you would like to be apart of this GIFT, please GIVE A GIFT OF  LOVE FOR UNITY:
Contact us If you would like to get involved, that being a :

World Leader,Sponsor,Business,Network,Company,Friend,Products,Magazine wanting to merge,Arts of all kind,
UNITY will be another branch within our Gaia.

UNITY
P.O. BOX 33068
CATHEDRAL P.O.
REGINA, SK.
S4T 7X2
CANADA

WE STAND STRONG AS ONE AS WE UNITE FOR UNITY

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

however, if we would all unify so strongly. we would be unified, but the unification and the maintance of this unification would take so considerable large amounts of time, that brilliant minds like einstein, wouldn't get around to do their brilliant stuff anymore.
Geniosity is best done in small groups. They can then redistribute by the use of language or paper for instance. But keep in mind that great advances in thinking do need to come from one or a small group of people. As it has been, for as long humans exist.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Yes, small groups , yet as one.
Then also connecting as one.
If there are two many yes , we get lost , and are minds sway , and get sidetracked.
Two many choices.
So each group would have a area , and small group , and they would work towards their goal, and so , and so on.
What about that, for a thought, I love chating with you:)

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

I've rarely read anything so painful.

A godess and Einstein …  it almost makes me cry.

It's so NOT FAIR that I'm just a regular human being actually DOING.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Please be clear in your intention dear one, as why does this make you cry?

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

“Dear one”,

From http://starvation.net/

“One person every other second needlessly dies. Approximately 85% of them are children.”

Your insipid dribble is about as repulsive as it gets.  This entire site is nothing but a front for the NWO, designed to stupify people while ripping them off in the process with ads to “divine” chocolate and whatever crap.

If there is a god, why didn't he give people a BS detector?

My next contribution to humankind is to terminate my membership here.

Christine

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

No Comment, to your response .
I am sorry that you are hurting , as those are very hurtful words.

Love , and honour to all,

GG

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

denote the irony, even though every second one person needlesly dies. Every second two get needlessley born…

might sound mean, but if this many people wouldn't die. Millions would die in days due to starvation. Birth control is the key to saving lives. the irony isn't it?

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

The Key , I bow to this knight in deed…

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Today We start our quest our journey, and this Maiden, can or will not do it alone.
She has come to the round Table to seek your help guidance.

Knight & Maidens Of The Round Table

They have robbed me bare, I walk on tender foot, and travel far , with my bags, moving as I must.
The quest begins :

AUTHENTIC SOULS ADVENTURES

In my town As I walk , I know the quest has just begun. A journey of a thousand miles.

Many will  help , and many will be apart of our journey.
So take a hold as the story unfolds, to UNITY.
It is like Robin Hood , and his men, well times have changed , now you have Gaia Godess Of Earth.
Gather round the table well the story takes birth…
Sign your name if you will be apart of this quest, for the best.
We may have a silent few, yet this is okay too.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

…Millions would die in days due to starvation…

This is the ” essential scarcity” theory and the thesis that “too many people” are the cause of poverty not one of the effects of poverty.

Stand on a bridge over a busy motorway and behold the colossal amount of energy being thrown away every second by those hurtling pieces of metal below you; not to mention the hydrocarbons being burned that could be made into food and wondrous new materials.

Who, or what, enforces scarcity? We could know (and could do something about it) but most of us do not want to look.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

I Look , I know , and I do something with all my power to help these people , and am giving my gifts , and love.

As we all need to work together to help, and strive for this.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

Christine,

I am so sorry you are so wrong about our intention here.

You have real fire to contribute to the task of remaking the world, but there are many ways of being active.

Re: Has anyone actually DONE something?

I tried working for a while with C but I found the abundance of negative energies counterproductive and hypocritical. Hope you find what you’re after…

Bless