Gaia: Knights & Maidens of the Roundtable - Arts

Re: Art after the Change

http://jlz.gaia.com — Tue, 04 Sep 2007 13:38:53 GMT

I will post a quick note that got me re looking for this thread to post my comment ... been waiting for a few days now... could'nt think of anything conclusive.... heres my story to describe my answer

Assuming a "Good World " f r u i t s ..That would mean having Redeemed ( we are talking future !! ) corporations to the mystical to healing centers, different new Real meet ups and Pods .... practicle community .. 'intentional' communities taking control of the physical ZEN World they dwell in.... New arty would 3D, 4D 5D .. Zero's 1's exhibits, new acceptances from the human body ... to a dilution of hidden mis-interpreted fetish scenes.... skin strech OOOhch. ... i'll leave the links out...
However future ART will be ..................LIKE
bansky.co.uk City realism ..........
and LIVE NATURE ARTIST Goldsworthy (www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/goldsworthy_andy.html )
and theres many others I cannot remember right now... these innovations would WILL FLOURISH...

ALSO in the cities artists would be into interior decor....making half their unnecessary shopping malls into big lounges, meditation centers, guided meeting rooms … Real stuff…Rehab to tai chi on the plastic peninsulars ..haha..or what ever art springs to that..... Why is there SHOPPING every where ... I cannot wait for the change.

Jules

Re: Art after the Change

http://environsand.gaia.com — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 01:54:17 GMT

I find this interesting because I have
really given the matter some thought
- being an artist myself.
I have long felt that Art is the best way to tell
any story.
Although the "fashion" of art changes -
art itself will always live on.

Re: Art after the Change

Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:04:05 GMT

Apparently I gave a rather difficult topic to discuss. But I can see where it goes. Human beings seem to be born with the need to be creative, to create something that takes their soul out in public. Some do it with books, some with poems, some become chefs, some become designers. It will be interesting to see how art is developing, because it will depend on the human soul as much as it ever did. We can only work on the soul matter and people will express themselves from there. I hope to live and see that.

Best wishes

Accepting the unsettling of meaning as the new literary zeitgeist

http://flyingbasil.gaia.com — Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:30:58 GMT

Looking back, literature in the 20th century seems to have been coloured by a stark contrast between trauma and liberation. Narratives of trauma, persecution, and repression juxtaposed with accounts of liberation, freedom, hope, and uncertainty.

Perhaps these are traits that characterize the human condition throughout the ages.

and the writers who are the most prominent in articulating the trials and tributations of the humanity in the past century are those who were repressed, oppressed or were in exile.

Gabriela Marquez, Gao Xingjian, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Salmon Rushdie, Tony Kushner, etc...

There also seems to be a proliferation of scar-literature on the market, where authors tell of their experiences under oppressive regimes, and also roots-literature where people speak of their diasporic lives away from home or as second-third generation migrants. I think for this kind of literature is illustrative of an authorial trend where writers engage in an immediate soul-searching about oneself and ones environment. Which also sells on the market.

As the world continues its paradoxical and perilous trend of factionalizing into different cultural/national entities whilst becoming entrenched in the globalization, I think there will be more literature that dwells on issues of uncertainty and ambiguity.

I think this idea can be applied to literature across the world. People are questioning the ideologies they embraced in the past century. In the West people are no longer certain of the supremacy of the dominant beliefs and most cherished principles, in spite of the politically much touted 'victory' in the coldwar. In post-communist countries a similar situation exists where people are caught between in an ambiguous love-hate relationship between their discredited soviet system and an inept and injustice of the present.

I don't think people anywhere, regardless of age, religion, or nationality can be sure of anything anymore...

a crisis of identity, morality, spirituality, and reason?

I guess this is what characterizes post-modernism?

--but also a crisis that gives us an unprecedented opportunity to see our hope in our potential?

Perhaps it is precisely this kind of instability that has us longing for works like Paulo Cohello's Alchemist, which suggests a meaning or purpose in the uncertainties of our situation, and our journey (our lives).

an acceptance of the notion that the

journey is the destination?

Re: Art after the Change

http://flyingbasil.gaia.com — Sat, 18 Aug 2007 01:55:26 GMT

Frankly, for me it is hard to fanthom how art would be after the change, but all of your ideas have given me some inspiration to my mind scarred by images of worldly suffering.

Yvette's suggestion that art is a non-verbal language, made me think very hard about the communicability of art to all. I think everyone has the potential to view what we now call canonical works of art, but to comprehend it requires a grasp of certain symbols and signifiers that are specific to a certain cultural or sub-cultural group.

when Yvette spoke of 'unknowing' do you mean that art should return to a point, when an idea was less emotionally charged... an idea that is on the verge of being articulated by words, but could be universally understood through art in various mediums.

gosh this is a tough thread to consider. [I need to put a little more though into it]

I want to make art less "A"rt and more 'art'. But I don't want a Maoist "Art for the People!"

If art is self-expression, I think it can be seen as agency, or empowerment. If this logic follows, ultimately art is empowerment. Whether it can be comprehended by others is a different story.

To me
Art after change... should not be art for art's sake, nor should it serve the society, rather society would recognize the right to agency of all, and everyday life becomes an art.

Life, not as the distopic spectacle it is now, but rather a carnivalesque life, where authority is not completely dispersed, but kept in check by a citizenry or collective concerned with mutual well being placed on par with individual self-expression [agency]...
it is but a dream.

My conflation of agency, art, and life comes from being witness to, as well as being complicit in the dominant order of repression. I place my hopes in an idea articulated by the sociologist Michel de Certeau called "Le Perrugue" (the wig?). Le Perrugue suggests that one can do for oneself in the guise of what is done for the employer or the system.

A corporeal art of taking back one's time, mind, and body [agency] from the necrophilic mechanisms of control. This is an art, whose main purpose is not to be understood, but to facilitate liberation if only for a moment.

It is performance, it is agency, it is freedom to self-express.

Often times it does not leave a trace, and it could not be witnessed long enough for many others to admire...

a spark in the darkness

beautiful no?

Re: Art after the Change

http://culturalfusion.gaia.com — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 18:37:44 GMT

Bobby, i really like where you went with your post/vision.....That is awesomely inspiring. This part especially clicked for me:

I'd say a lot of our artwork will move towards beautifying the ugliness we've created. What are we gonna do with all the highrises? Maybe there'll be an organisation that works on supporting a city vine system that has really awesome air cleaning properties? Part of the artwork of filling a city with greenery again is that everybody experiences cleaner air. Greener energy. More heart chakra. I imagine in a free world unbound by fear there will be many more things like this that will come about… we're truly in for an interesting ride! What on earth would you create if you could create anything?

This is sounding like the kind of place i'd want to live in and help create....to add to that.....

I also feel that the nature of art, as a medium that embraces diversity, offers a framework for integration without competition inspired conflict where contrast takes its place. Where Either Or thinking can be transformed to see BOTH AND....i wonder if this will be an expression of quantum technology that will emerge in art because i do wonder what role that plays in speeding progress in the development of quantum technology...i know that is something i'm very interested in seeing explored in art and i'm hoping there are others who share this curiosity.

In art it seems that sharing of ideas can be done in a way that is less threatening....for example in a discussion it seems there tend to be some who feel something we resist/reject is being forced onto us merely by the sharing or exchange of ideas. In art it seems easier for people to take the "i don't care for that" and keep walking approach while in a discussion context i can provoke a more competition inspired response. Do you think the difference art makes in eliminating povery and repression can also work to eliminate conflict and war? I ask because i tend to see art as communication, a nonverbal language and i am curious about its potential as a universal language of peace.

I wonder what role an emerging or stronger "creative class" would mean in terms of social structure....any ideas about that?

Only the best!

Re: Art after the Change

Sun, 12 Aug 2007 09:59:18 GMT

Great topic Chrysalis!! I like what Yvette had to say and think that yes, artists will be those who have the minds to solve the problems of our future. But I'm thinking even beyond that, imagining that we are so successful as to completely rid ourselves of fear in the world. Complete overcoming of poverty and repression.

Perhaps in this world, there would be less pressure to achieve an objective, but more to explore and maybe deepen our discovery of ourselves and each other.

I think that in time, our lives will then become art... not separate from what we do for living. The artist in all of us walking our creating our lives hoping for the ultimate expression to come through.

I feel we should encourage artists to give more energy to work that is timeless, assuming we are there... or artists who are about possibility. Assuming we are fearless. We could be creating art about all the things wrong with the world forever and ever, but that could potentially lock us into the past fears and attachments.

Do we listen to musicians who are stuck, moping about their situation or those who are offering an insight of a new possibility? I'll tell ya what... I know a quick way to get a girl considering whats wrong with the relationships in your life and thats to play a couple albums of alanis morrisette... before long, she'll be questioning!!!

It seems very hard for me today to go out there and buy an album that is not fluffy zen music which is not impersonal and about helping the listener out. In my opinion, in this day and age, too many artists are making it personal...celebrities coming out saying "oh this is who I really am" but how on earth does that make a difference? Why are we looking at them in the first place, because they pretend to be in the position of icons we admire?

How is it possible for us to move forward when we are looking at art which justifies our past deluded binding agreements? Why do we spend time watching movies that are false impressions of the past? Why do we spend time learning even?

This is an out there idea, but could most art that exist today, be pretty irrelevant to the new world of tomorrow? Simply because we've yet to really live in a time where people have not been repressed, how is it possible to create art that resonates freedom and not just something that makes you have an empathy for the artist, or inspiration for the developer or whatever the current paradigm is?

I'm not saying the freedom art doesn't exist... or there's not amazing art that makes us compassionate... but i think most art is actually compassion inspired... its either 'get compassionate about this' or 'get compassionate about me'.

I think most people have self agenda running throughout their blood. So artists may find it hard to create art that truly serves the good of mankind... those who do, manage to create art that stands the tests of time. Michaelangelo's work... that other guy who has a book and movie out on him. They made art that was actually benefical to mankind... truly selfless.

Art of the future in my opinion encourages freedom. For artists who want to help others in the world, I imagine them to create emotional experiences for others that helps them to see freedom and abundance where it is hard to see.

For example, we see this happening with Grafitti... what is often an ugly thing in some places where it has been embraced, the artists are not creating in fear and they are allowed to create truly beautiful artwork on ugly brick walls and fences and it inspires people on the bus. I think this is a great example of how art is becoming a bigger collaboration... council people who change the laws... business owners who own the walls... street kids who have no money getting payed for their skills... the millions of people who see real art instead of tags. Its the kinda thing that makes more people feel good about themself. Why do graffiti heads do tags? They want to be recognised.... interesting how they don't do that obsessively once they get recognised.

I'd say a lot of our artwork will move towards beautifying the ugliness we've created. What are we gonna do with all the highrises? Maybe there'll be an organisation that works on supporting a city vine system that has really awesome air cleaning properties? Part of the artwork of filling a city with greenery again is that everybody experiences cleaner air. Greener energy. More heart chakra. I imagine in a free world unbound by fear there will be many more things like this that will come about... we're truly in for an interesting ride! What on earth would you create if you could create anything?

Re: Art after the Change

http://culturalfusion.gaia.com — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:12:53 GMT

Great question!

I will speak to the re-envisioning of art that i aspire to...."art as philosophy" to me is about art with purpose. So in the brave new compassionate world of the future art is the overarching framework that is used to develop solutions for the most complicated challenges. When everyone is scratching their heads and only able to see through the lens of the past, it will art that enters to save the day with its gift to enable creators to see with fresh eyes, minds and hearts united the results are more holistic and easily integrated as more people shake off old assumptions.

In the future more of us will have found the courage to step into "unknowing" and that will free more of us to discover so society as a whole will be more loving, creative and inspired. It will be passion for creative expression and social capital that will be driving forces for a new open economy. This shift empowers the many instead of the few so the traditional will adjust and grow in positive ways so that a point of interface can be utilized to maintain continuity during the transition.

Thanks for that chance to daydream :-)

Art after the Change

Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:09:52 GMT

Having studied Art History of India for many years at the university, I want to give us something to think about here.

Imagine we achieve the changes we want to make, and the world is a better place and a happier place. What would artistic expression look like?

I am wondering about this because the motivation for art has always been different. There were times when art was born from suffering and depression. Then there was art which criticised the current government or social system. There was art which was paid for by governments or kings to have it decorate their palaces. And then there was art which was motivated by spiritual or religious devotion.

Some say, art has to have a message, different layers of interpretation and it certainly can't be just nice to look at. So...how do you imagine art after the change in the brave new world of the future we start to create?

Best wishes

Re: Literature as Spiritual Study

http://enlightenedthinker.gaia.com — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 03:20:40 GMT

Agreed and perhaps you can start another thread here in the arts for that!
Architecture, mis-en-scene(props, costume, et al) contribute also to a films general texture!

go for it!

:)

Re: Literature as Spiritual Study

http://sunight.gaia.com — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 01:05:11 GMT

Hey, yeah, like Jean Luc Picard's holodeck!

Aley, there are many avenues for this discussion - even comics and fairy tales.

As an aside, I once took a class on architecture in film - two of the films were "Edward Scissorhands" and "It's a Wonderful Life". Do you think of architecture when you think of those films? They convery attitudes of the times about development. I think at some future point I'd like to see the arts in this pod move into other media as well.

Re: Literature as Spiritual Study

http://enlightenedthinker.gaia.com — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 02:22:27 GMT

Hey Burt!
Good to see you! I like what it is you say is coming...never considered it, but reminds me of those interactive headsets we put on and are involved in some sort of experience "inside" the goggles, is this what you mean?
I get the interactive part..and understand it to mean we can travel "into" a scenario and work through the plot and be part of the action?

Can I please be reborn when this happens if I am already transitioned?

i like this one...and as the Hero with 1000 faces, then we won't need movies will we?

correct me if I am misunderstandgin Burt...this is cool..!!!

Aley

Re: Literature as Spiritual Study

Sun, 05 Aug 2007 22:58:41 GMT

Very interesting thread, Aley. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that as the influence of the written word continues to wane, spiritual literature will not be encountered so much in sacred texts but in interactive programming that allows particpanst to customize their own metaphysical adventures and experiences. There will always be a place for myth and a shared cultural heritage, but eventually it will take a back seat as we each become a hero with a thousand faces.

Re: Literature as Spiritual Study

http://enlightenedthinker.gaia.com — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 19:11:14 GMT

Yep, you are probably right Johan. After all JM Barrie and Peter Pan and Baums Wizard of Oz are celebrated, but not in formal literary study. One author hated for many years was Heningway and look at him now!

Yarculdragonlord thanks too for weighing in here. Gender literature is already pretty rampant in colleges. Feminist and also Gay literature has made its way mainstream which is great as it celebrates the human condition of this century...

Perhaps elder literature will also be included? I woul dlike to see things come from more of a human condition, which includes all these things...I hate schisms though and hope for some kind of unity of experience, even though one cannot find it in all literature.

Archetypal literature is also most excellent...heros journey, mythic themes...full of all sorts of characters from this genre.

Re: Literature as Spiritual Study

http://yarculdragonlord.gaia.com — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 18:11:52 GMT

Literature of Gender is one direction in which to look. I do not mean by this, literature that studies or tries to define a specific gender. I mean literature that explores the very nature of our illusory variations in gender. One might read Wraeththu by Storm Constantine to better understand this literature.

Is there a natural split in the genders? Does gender and sex (male and female) mean the same thing? How do we use the concept of gender? Is the idea of gender a binary concept or is there far more to the concept?

These are some of the questions that literature of the 21st Century will explore.

Re: Literature as Spiritual Study

Sun, 05 Aug 2007 18:07:01 GMT

Dont hesitate to add Harry Potter!

I predict in less than 100 years the world s population would have taken Harry s emergence literally, and a few brave and outcast souls would argue that Harry was a character from a children's series of books and be either laughed at and/or ostracized and hated for saying that.

Re: Literature as Spiritual Study

http://enlightenedthinker.gaia.com — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 17:43:04 GMT

Ok, this thread got buried and I am attempting to see what we might envision our 21st century literary greats may be...

I hesitate to add Harry Potter, unless he is classified Childrens Lit, which is not to demean the work, but it is not the same genre as some other are...

Perhaps, Paulo Coelho? The Alchemist et al?

What are your thoughts about his work?

Another that comes to mind is: Jhumpa Lahiri: interpreter of Maladies.

Re: "art as philosophy" and oral traditions

http://grantdwalker.gaia.com — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 06:51:16 GMT

Here, here. Magic stuff people.

I'm a big believer in destroying the 9-5 mentality. My brother is a jeweler and when he is inspired/'in source' (as he calls it), he works all night and then sleeps all day. I love that.

Re: "art as philosophy" and oral traditions

http://keithb7862.gaia.com — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 02:59:06 GMT

Oh Bravo! Yvette!!!

We must learn as a society to allow for passion . . . in all that we do.

No more 9 - 5 boring mundane jobs. We need to "play" 24/7. Art is a vital part of everyone's lives. Where would we be without art?

Everything is art. All around us. The world is our canvas . . . let us begin painting . . .

"art as philosophy" and oral traditions

http://culturalfusion.gaia.com — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 02:39:02 GMT

Thank you for the invitation.
i wasn't sure where i'd best fit in with my work encompassing several areas, including art, economics, social and self devleopment, and philosphy...but art is my overarching framework, this is where i landed.

My interest is in oral traditions interpreted through art especially as a means of helping people to experience their connection to history (past) and history (future)....a way to engage larger audiences in exploring these issues at a personal and communal level.

Our projects are also exploring alternative approaches to economic development and art is vital to this line of research. Art is the bridge.

Cultural Fusion is creating the Cirque de Soleil of Event Marketing & Tradeshows by marrying “art as philosophy” to meaningful marketing (CRM strategy). For example, we have to figure out how to reduce the amount of garbage so someone starts to look at how to recycle materials, but most people never get exposed to them in a memorable way. Unless products like textiles made from recycled plastics find useful applications that grow their market share people will not be encouraged to develop mission driven businesses. Socially responsible business must be profitable or not enough people will migrate in the right direction, that seems to be the economic reality.

How do we then start to create memorable contexts for the public, not just "new age" niche markets, to encounter new ideas and products that can help change the world?

Art is a way of harnessing passion (aka Love) that can be infused into business/commerce that is concerned with solutions to the multitude of challenges facing humanity and the planet.

Art is also a means of studying/advancing Ronald's work with the Theory of Attention which i feel can play a vital role in creating an econonmy that works for all by creating a context for creativity as an asset and social capital as a key part of the profit equation. i have been working on ideas for the kind of financial tools that could assist with this but it all centers around the conceptual foundation of art.

So we're starting with step one Hotel Infinity