Gaia: Knights & Maidens of the Roundtable

Re: Unconditional subsistence income--AKA Citizens' Income

http://goodworld.gaia.com — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 17:59:30 GMT

Mita,
You are right to point out that citizens income does not directly change the status quo. it is only one of the preconditions.

Re: Primary Objective

http://goodworld.gaia.com — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:27:06 GMT

Thank you, Keith, for the reminder. It is our pod---to use the original Zaadz terminology.

However, thanks are due to Keith for setting it up for us in the first place.

Also remember to think of which "sector" is our main interest and which other sectors are our affiliated or related interests.
My home is, for example, economic (spiritual economics, to avoid misunderstanding). But related homes are philosophy, politics (governance) and education.

This is something to do with the "holistic methodology" required by a new investigative pradigm.

Re: Primary Objective

http://goodworld.gaia.com — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:17:55 GMT

And a faithful watcher, thank you.
-----------------------------------------------
This is what could be:

and this may be the process:

Re: Primary Objective

http://Domus-ulixes.gaia.com — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:49:01 GMT

hihi, I like the video.
Though I do not agree that capitalism is obsolete as a system.
I do agree that a new social system is required in over capitalised area's like America.

It is a very good and clear video. Where can I download it?

Re: Primary Objective

http://keithb7862.gaia.com — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:22:58 GMT

I just completed the video and am astounded by the attention to detail.

Would advise others to view with an open mind, as it might appear too science fiction. But realize while watching the video or reading their material that all the technology and material needed to turn this into reality . . . is already here!!!

There will be, I can easily see, much resistance to this by those who are entrenched in the old system. I would offer that this may be our future, but not our immediate future . . . unless . . . there was a total collapse of our present economy and government, world-wide.

Is this what Universe has in store for us? Possible. I would argue, Janos, that this would require a complete change in our mind-set. Such changes normally occur over many, many years involving several generations. I love the concepts and the fact this is "off-the-shelf" ready to go today. I do. I think it's fantastic. But at the same time, this would be a massive, massive undertaking and require upending centuries of societal conditioning.

I joined, BTW. This needs to go viral, really. A bit over 300,000 members world-wide would definitely be enough to get a few pilot projects up and going, but many more would be needed before any kind of tipping point is reached.

I do agree with you about health delivery. I'm advocating change. I would, however, drop everything in a heartbeat and advocate this if things take a sudden downward turn and if there was more support from others.

Along this line, BTW, just read this morning that the largest country in the US state of Alabama is laying off two-thirds of all its employees due to lack of funds. This has been an on-going trend . . . and I only see it continuing. The state of California has been doing the same thing.

Are we seeing and will we be continuing to see governmental breakdown?

I think we will.

Re: Primary Objective

http://goodworld.gaia.com — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:40:54 GMT

...only the free market can do an efficient job of managing supply and demand...

This is the "market fundamentalist" stance. It is quite difficult to engage with because it has the characteristics of an article of faith. George Soros talks a lot about this in his critique of the current form of theory-dominated capitalism.

In my understanding, the theory fails to recognise that the market's supply and demand mechanism can see only "effective demand", demand backed by purchasing power.
Real demand, with no adequate dollars to give it a voice, goes unheard on the market.
Also, efficiency is overvalued in the market fundamentalist model and is taken to be the supreme and over riding factor and is forced into areas os social functionality like education and health where rigorous measurement is not possible without reducing human participants to things.
These schools of thoughts should take some lessons from living systems where a great deal of "redundancy" is tolerated in exchange for viability and stability.

Going back to health care, I just don't see why the general standard of health of the people should be subordinated to the calculations preformed by the a-human mechanism of market forces.
It may be true that bad doctors for example would eventually loose their practice for lack of clients, but our concern should be the waste and suffering before enough people relised that they should not go to him.

Of course the market would not be allowed to reign supreme like that. Legal action would be taken after the first few cases of malpractice. But that is just the point, the market forces cannot be left to their own devices where human well being and lives are at stake.

Re: Primary Objective

http://keithb7862.gaia.com — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:20:31 GMT

Your link, Janos, is missing. Here it is: The Zeitgeist Movement: Orientation Presentation .

I have a question: Today in the US we are neck-deep in debating health reform. The argument presented by those who are perfectly content with the status quo is that only the free market can do an efficient job of managing supply and demand, that "socialized medicine" doesn't work and is akin to being un-American.

If as being argued, the free market is the best manager of health delivery, then why, pray tell, has our system become so out of balance, priced itself essentially out of the market for increasing segments of the population, and is almost universally detested?

To those who would argue that "social management" (generically speaking) is abhorrant and will not work, how can our current capitalistic systems be supported, while the entire planet is experiencing such a severe recession which may in the future be labeled Great Depression II? Would this not be proof-positive that our systems should be reassessed? All the knobs, levers and buttons our leaders normally use to maintain continuity and balance simply . . . are not, and likely will not . . . work.

Any thoughts?

Re: Primary Objective

http://goodworld.gaia.com — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 17:02:14 GMT

Not quite sure how the threading works. This post should follow Michael's statement of preference for the Esoterics board.

The twelve modules or departments are of course need to converge to develop or identify resources to advance one common task the transformation of the troubled world we know into the Possible Good World (PGW).

So contributions need to qualify as a resource and, if needed, the sponsor may have to indicate (as Michael done in his post --- referenced) to the "collective" how it furthers overall task advancement.

Our goal is this:

Re: Primary Objective

http://goodworld.gaia.com — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:41:43 GMT

I wrote this entry before I watched The Zeitgeist Movement: Orientation Presentation which is a comprehensive systemic overview of what is wrong and how to put it right. The presentation at nearly an hour and forty minutes long. It is extracted from the more extensive "Activist Orientation Guide".

A highly recommendable presentation---"orientation" describes it perfectly. Well worth spending the time on.

This cartoon also sums up the change needed.

"Our Crisis is a birth"

Re: True Leadership

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:03:05 GMT

thanks for the link, andrew, I hadn't seen that, very good.

Re: Gross National Happiness

http://keithb7862.gaia.com — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:44:51 GMT

LOL! Not sure about "givin' 'er" on this site, but I thank you Andrew. Do check, though. If memory serves me, I believe Canada's Head of State is still Queen Elizabeth II who's been on the throne since around 1957 or so.

Charles is not all that popular, I believe, but has increased in stature very slowly over the yeas following the death of his beloved Princess. I certainly like some of his ideas, such as insisting on organic farming techniques.

Now, your Prince William . . . talk about a new paradigm when he should take the throne!!! Wow! Janos may be in the best position to offer comment on the British royal family, I believe.

Under the Commonwealth of Nations system, Queen Elizabeth II is nominally head of over 50 nations. This doesn't mean the British Crown "rules" these independent nations. They're merely "linked" as friends, not unlike links we share here on Gaia. This is actually a great discussion to have on this thread.

Re: Gross National Happiness

http://andrewmarkmusic.gaia.com — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 04:47:50 GMT

i wish canada had a king like that instead of the mean spirited tyrants that we've been stuck with for 20 years!

good to hear that your still givin' 'er on this site keith.....

Re: True Leadership

http://keithb7862.gaia.com — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 04:27:24 GMT

Actually I did too. Quite logical. Quick, decisive. Of course, there will always be those who want to resist.

Re: True Leadership

http://andrewmarkmusic.gaia.com — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 03:59:38 GMT

i thought moore was being reasonable here....

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/

Re: True Leadership

http://keithb7862.gaia.com — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:58:22 GMT

I concur Janos. A perfect example of your point is health care. In the US the majority of health delivery is via for-profit entities. When "money" becomes a factor, the motivation changes. We now have huge, huge corporate insurance companies doing everything in their power to demand as much as they can from their customers in the form of insurance premiums, while simultaneously doing everything in their power to cut back paying or covering services and even denying care to those who may need it the most. All this so they can turn a profit and meet or exceed Wall Street expectations.

This is . . . idiocy! Yes, this model actually works quite well when applied to tooth paste or hair spray. But not to human beings!!!!! You don't go out of your way to dig up some lame excuse to cancel much-needed insurance coverage after six or seven years when all of a sudden the person is now diagnosed with cancer or needs an organ transplant in order to live!

And the same with our water, a natural resource, an absolute necessity for survival. In today's society electricity to run our homes might fall in the same category, a necessity of life. The same argument could be made for our air waves, or communication in general. I don't know about the rest of the world, but in the US we pay a pretty penny for cable television, Internet and phone service each month. And any attempt to bring in competition to lower prices is shot down.

So, are we talking socialism here? The huge bug-a-boo word that has such a bad rap? Or are we referring back to the Iroquois Nation? Our native peoples held everything in common. Perhaps a compromise between the two, where there is private property, but the remainder is public and held communally.

Our economic system today, BTW, is being held together by band-aids and bubble gum, nothing more. Any sudden shock, such as a great natural disaster or casualty, will send our markets over the edge. We are very, very fragile at the moment. It's conversations like this that may become necessary, should the worst-case scenario become reality.

Re: True Leadership

http://singerseeker.gaia.com — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:34:40 GMT

Sheeple is well-attested on the net - see
Sheeple
Urban Dictionary: sheeple
xkcd

You make some good points about Obama. The changes that are needed are so huge, though, I don't know if they could be achieved within 4 to 8 years.

Love,

Nicole

Re: True Leadership

http://goodworld.gaia.com — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:24:49 GMT

What a great thread! My only source of sadness is that so many participants are "no longer around".
Christine left some months ago driven by impatience with "just talking". But she did leave the warning about expecting too much from leaders whom the system is allowing to lead. I assume she made a play on word sounds: "people"--> "sheeple" (from sheep-like people).
I agree, we should not take too much comfort and go to sleep again thinking that at last we have a true leader that is fit to fight our battle.
I agree that the "Obama phenomenon" represents a unique possibility for change, but it is the people wo voted him in rather than those who allowed him to be voted in will need to make the desired changes by clearly demanding them. But we, the people, need to know what are the real changes we need to demand. And that needs some hard digging to the roots of what is rightly called "systemic evil".
My "digging" convinces me that the benefits of two fundamental monopolies need to be taken from the control of modern-day robber barons.
Those two monopolies are,

1) private control over natural resources (including land, in terms of living an working space);
2) the private control by the banks and the FED (in the US) over the currency of a nation.

Obama's greatest test and challenge is the second one: Who creates the nation's money stock and how it gets into the economy?
The people who voted for him must support him by demanding the democratisation of the money system.

What is possible and what may happen (if enough people do not wake up).

Re: THE PATH TO LOVE...

http://Domus-ulixes.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 23:24:32 GMT

There are several kinds of love. That is for sure. you can love a friend. You can love your children (and I hope you do)
But what real love is.
Besides of course I do not know what that means for you.
I think it is really just a personal realisation, that a certain kind of thought exists, that you can share with someone else.

Re: THE PATH TO LOVE...

http://goodworld.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:48:00 GMT

Domus,
Thank you for visiting the pod and for the link to the summing up of three years of inner journey.
I have to confess to not knowing what love is --- in the romantic sense (I was effectively abandoned by my mother at the age of four); but I know what need is, and I know the the feeling of gratitude when someone, a special one, finds it in her heart to fulfil that need.
After more than forty years of marriage, and beyond the trials and tribulations of bringing up three children, we are better friends and lovers than ever before.

So, I wonder, is that not also love?

Re: THE PATH TO LOVE...

http://Domus-ulixes.gaia.com — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:40:47 GMT

love