Gaia: Knights & Maidens of the Roundtable - Psychology - Cognitive Dissonance

Re: Cognitive Dissonance

http://Meenakshi.gaia.com — Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:03:35 GMT

Awareness as J Krishnamurthy described it, could do it - when we watch, without judging, intellectualising, categorizing, trying to grasp or understand or remember - he would say [and this is from memories of youthful listening to him] : "Just WATCH yourself. And in that watching, it will disappear."

Zakariyya, you wrote: "The great inner battle is the realization that we can't have all these dissonant desires in us and become balanced, something has to give, and some inner impulses have to be dealt with or in some cases conquered."

You're right, cognitive dissonance cannot be tackled at the intellectual level; it has to be tackled by rising above it. I have found compassion, that we are discussing on another thread, to be an energy that helps us to transcend and transmute; so that we don't only conquer, but transmute the energies into balance.

Re: Cognitive Dissonance

http://perfectcircle.gaia.com — Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:39:25 GMT

This underlying idea of this concept seems to be conflict. Conflict is two different energies going in opposite directions thereby producing imbalance in the organism.

This is natural to man's disunified condition. What must be done is not only self knowledge but when it is realized by the person that they have negative energy inside them they must be willing to confront it, on all levels.

In other words we could intellectually desire to extricate ourselves from something but on other levels still don't have the desire or energy to be free from it. That's a big problem. It's sort of like being addicted to something; I could recall my old drug days we would get high and sit around contemplating what we would do when we stopped this habit. We wanted to stop but couldn't until a greater part of our being wanted to stop other than our mind.

The great inner battle is the realization that we can't have all these dissonant desires in us and become balanced, something has to give, and some inner impulses have to be dealt with or in some cases conquered. And that's the struggle the human organism has to face.

Re: Cognitive Dissonance

http://Meenakshi.gaia.com — Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:09:36 GMT

Shadow-- yes; I'm sure it does. Good putting these two together. After all, the dissonance only exposes the two conflicting beliefs that were so far co-existing without knowing the existence of the other.
Grt insight, Aley.

As to the mechanics - I think the shadow here is the non-connection we have to our center; which is why one "part" of us is unaware of what the other "part" is doing.

Re: Cognitive Dissonance

http://joy-within.gaia.com — Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:54:35 GMT

Wow! I just listened to the link...amazing!!

Re: Cognitive Dissonance

http://enlightenedthinker.gaia.com — Sat, 18 Aug 2007 05:13:41 GMT

Seems like this is something everyone suffers from and must have to deal with all the time?

Am reading up on it and wonder, as mentioned if it has to do with shadow?

Re: Cognitive Dissonance

http://katrinamae.gaia.com — Sat, 18 Aug 2007 03:28:08 GMT

The Avatar exercises that I've recently been introduced to have been really great at exposing me to the contradictions in my beliefs - or, really, just what exactly my beliefs even are that I am operating out of. (I actually met a person who teaches it, Summer, on Zaadz, so she is on my friends list, if you wanna know more.)

Re: Cognitive Dissonance

http://Meenakshi.gaia.com — Sat, 18 Aug 2007 03:00:21 GMT

Dissonance points out areas in our thought process that are not clear; and are at odds with each other.

The question is, how do we get out of dissonance?

Re: Cognitive Dissonance

http://enlightenedthinker.gaia.com — Sat, 18 Aug 2007 01:19:54 GMT

WOW...I want to learn more about this as I see it all over....

lets get some more dialog on this please!

Re: Cognitive Dissonance

http://Meenakshi.gaia.com — Fri, 10 Aug 2007 01:04:56 GMT

Good topic AnyaTara. I feel another way out of cognitive dissonance is to watch the sometimes opposing ideas we hold on many issues. Sometimes one dominates, and sometimes another - and that can lead to dissonance.

Like I have a belief in freedom of choice and also a belief that work should be efficient. When I see that those around me are not working efficiently, and step in to help them improve their work, even if at first they resist, there's a great dissonance in me about stepping into their freedom!

Re: Cognitive Dissonance

http://anyatara.gaia.com — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 02:26:36 GMT

Yes, definitely, this discomfort is a pathway to growth.

In your case, it sounds like you developed a self image which was threatened by the possibility that you could never remain perfect (shocking, I know), but then wisely, you realized the self definition needed to change. That is the ideal response to cognitive dissonance, then you learn and grow from your experiences.

Thanks for sharing your example and keep up the good work ;)

Re: Cognitive Dissonance

http://anyatara.gaia.com — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 02:22:40 GMT

For me, I'm not sure this is the answer to anything, just think its a good place for dialog.

We set forth to change the world but many obstacles lie in the way.

It is hard to change people's minds when they have a vested interest in not changing them. This theory helps illuminate some of that challenge.

When people do things which contradict their ideas of themselves, a cognitive dissonance occurs. You think you are a good person, you do something not so good, presto, cognitive dissonance.

People must do something to resolve that conundrum.

Often they justify things or rationalize them or just become more idealistic. e.g. you tell yourself, well everyone one does bad things, I shouldn't worry if I've done something bad. It negates the Dissonance. All better.

But really a better choice is to just expand our definition of ourselves. I'm a good person, but sometimes I do things I don't necessarily like, what can I learn from this.

It is a bothersome thought that the leaders of our country have this same issue. They think, I am a great leader. Then they... say... invade a small country under somewhat questionable justifications and then that invasion goes to hell.

Then what, a certain dissonance arises, and that leader, rather than facing the fact that maybe they aren't such a great leader, plows forward in their convictions that we must "stay the course" because, well, they are a great leader and couldn't have done anything wrong.

I think that this theory is a useful perspective, my real question is, would there be something here we can leverage to help change minds.

Not sure I have an answer to that, but maybe a stepping out point for discussion that might lead to some useful ideas on how to really change the way people think.

Re: Cognitive Dissonance

http://grantdwalker.gaia.com — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 09:29:47 GMT

This is interesting. I have tendency to simplify things...please bring me back to the path if need be...

I've started a relatively new job, about 6 months ago now, It was something that I hadn't done before but I knew I would be very good at it. The reason I thought this was because I was doing the job in my spare time already.

After the initial period of settling in and getting used to new people, I started to find my feet very quickly. Before I knew it I was doing at least as good as I had expected. I started to get a few of compliments from a few people that I was very well suited to my job. I got more and more confident and the compliments got even better.

And then I hit the point, that I think you're talking about. I thought to myself "Shit, i'm really good at this, I knew I would be, I can't say anything wrong (only in my mind of course)" And then I got that feeling "Ummmm...I guess the only place from here is down, I really can't afford to say anthing stupid, I thought I might be a little bit more conservative to consolidate on my position". BANG! Growth had stopped right there. Luckily i'm relaxed enough to realise my errors (for lack of a better word) quickly, and I quickly went out my way to my foot in something and get a bit red faced. Gee, I felt better after that, i'm back to my normal outspoken self, putting myself out there and I continue to improve a little bit each day.

Discomfort breeds growth I say.

Re: Cognitive Dissonance

http://keithb7862.gaia.com — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 02:32:28 GMT

A bit outside my field, AnyaTara. It does sound like an area we should be discussing as it explains a great deal. I'll leave this for someone else that understands. We need twelve people.

Cognitive Dissonance

http://anyatara.gaia.com — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 02:04:31 GMT

I was looking for a place to post this, and presto, Keith gave me a space.

Cognitive Dissonance is a fascinating area of psychology which tends to explain a lot about the world and people and why it is so hard for people to face and admit to mistakes. I've been fascinated by the concept for years because it has some strong parallels to concepts in Jnana yoga, where we examine how ideas of ourselves twist all our thoughts and perceptions, and to escape this, we begin letting go of ideas of ourselves.

That being said, the Jnana practice is a bit much for most people, but the Cognitive Dissonance theory explains that if we have ideas of ourselves and we do something in contradiction to these ideas, it creates a cognitive dissonance - a contradiction which troubles us until we resolve it.

The easiest way to resolve it is with justifications, rationalization, and ideology (reminds me a lot of the second stage of Shadow processing).

The harder way to resolve it is by examining our definitions of our selves and realizing they are flawed.

This is an excellent interview with one of the foremost researchers in Cognitive Dissonance theory and it was very insightful. He makes some fun pokes at Bush and his relentless need to "stay the course" as well.

Love to hear what you all think.