Gaia: Knights & Maidens of the Roundtable - Faiths - Introducing Compassion and Kindness

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://psychicsurgeon.gaia.com — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 04:05:57 GMT

More than the Same we One but Not the Same. LOL

From my own experience, I have experienced being other people both dead and alive. I have experienced being persons who are preparing for dying. I have had recall back to the caveman days and countless death memories. I gave up on reincarnation over a decade ago in order to explain my experience of reality.

On that note, one I would like to add to your argument, in my mid-twenties, during college, I had many memories of being male. In many of those memories I had raped and killed men, women and children. They were different eras and different races. I felt a lot of guilt and shame after rising out of the encapsulated experiences of being in their mind's eyes. As I began working on compassion for myself to alleviate the intense emotional impressions, I began to have compassion for rapists and murders. I began to see from their mind's eyes. That is not to say that I was not given the balance to those lessons later when I was too compassionate to blame anyone. I was later shown the responsibility that we all carry for our work here. Yet, at least the first recognition of self in other is half the solution to any problem.

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://psychicsurgeon.gaia.com — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 03:56:03 GMT

True; but the best (fastest) means of facing fear is awakening it.

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:13:56 GMT

Thank you very much, Meenakshi. It is VERY important to understand that compassion is not feeling sorry or pity. Compassion is exactly what you described.

Yes, maybe compassion is related to suffering, maybe it is triggered or conditioned by suffering. But then the conclusion must be: .the ideal world has no need for compassion. Let us create the ideal world, free of suffering, free of compassion, but full of kindness, love and peace.

Best wishes

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://Meenakshi.gaia.com — Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:30:18 GMT

Perhaps when we talk about words like compassion and kindness, which are so charged with individual and cultural meaning - a large part of the discussion is to help us understand what we mean by the concepts.

The Buddha's concept of compassion is the way I use the word - "Since the Buddhist concept of compassion is based on the universality of Buddhahood, compassion is not one's pity for those who seem weaker or inferior; it is more like a sentiment of friendly respect amongst equals."

Compassion in this way, seems to be feeling as others do from a state of union or oneness with them - so it is with the suffering, but also with the joy in others; their happiness and sadness; their triumphs and tribulations; their agreements and disagreements; hopes and horrors. The way into it, is through kind acts, empathy with thoughts and emotions, healing acts and anything that raises the vibrations away from the separateness level [ that other much loaded word - ego].

So in a practical way, once I write and post - and then read the thread again, it is finding parts in each other's writing that come from a place where you and I are one. In this way, there is compassion for all, because it does not come "from me" but is felt by "me".

http://meenakshi.zaadz.com/blog/2007/8/how_do_we_experience_compassion

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://perfectcircle.gaia.com — Sun, 19 Aug 2007 03:11:05 GMT

Compassion is a response to suffering.

In our condition it is one of the warriors of enlightenment.

So if their were no suffering there would be no need for compassion

One thing is for sure is that we don't have enough compassion in this world.

Greed, ignorance and selfishness seems to be winning

And that may soon cause serious problems

Because if compassion is a response to suffering, then it is an evolutionary feeling that is necessary for our survival.

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://keithb7862.gaia.com — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:19:38 GMT

This is a great discussion, Zaadsters. Love it!

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://environsand.gaia.com — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 03:48:49 GMT

Well Katrina -
I think that the answer to that -
in practical terms is that you are
being used and your good nature being
taken advantage of !
Now that happens in families too -
both the husband and/or the children-
often/usually treat their partner/mother
that way.
But for friends to do that -well
you either just love them and do it anyway-
or I guess you explore your avenues of
accomodation.
Because it's it could make you feel
drained,bitter and resentful and
not very respectful to yourself.

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://culturalfusion.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:41:35 GMT

Very interesting twists and turns with this thread. i had thought i would refrain from commenting but as you see...i've changed my mind :-)

How do we approach issues of faith in a way that unites rather than divides? Respecting personal beliefs of others as we all strive to find ways to work together.

Why? Because it seems the need calls for a method that can be applied to action based on the ideals some associate with religious/spirtual paths and others as simple attributes of humanity (compassion and kindness). However the thing i saw missing, and that didn't seem to be emerging was a framework that could be broadly applied to social benefits.

Something that comes to mind is how the emphasis in some Christian churches, speaking in reference to the south but certain it can apply beyond that region, came to emphasize "being saved" over how you actually lived. During slavery if the churches wanted to keep their collection plates full they couldn't challenge slaveowners who attended church faithfully...and so getting into heaven became more a matter of "being saved" than how you actually live your life or treated others. And we see very clearly the results of that brand of logic and heritage....so many people will be deterred by the mere reference to faith or spirituality because of how it has been traditionally used in society.

i'd like to explore how we can look at the issues connected to faith to find what is universal among us so that we make the most of this time we have together.

Of course, what i suggest is not the only solution but i share this in the hope that it will help keep the dialogue moving in direction that will fuel positive action, with lasting positive results.

This is something we've been working on and i call it SoulFood Tradition and i hesitated because it is clearly not meant to be a spiritual tradition in the familiar sense, but it does seek to make a space for the spiritual expression of humanity. One of the things i observed a need for was inclusive frameworks that could be flexible, broadly applicable, understandable across cultures, and empowering diverse individuals with an eye on the common good.

And because it seems since the start of civilizations societies have been shaped by commerce that is where this more soulful level of living most needs to be infused.

SoulFood perspective are Games of Acceptance: The Cultural Fusion series yields CRM strategies that create context for games to engage and nourish, so that a bridge exist to sustain connections to solutions. Then it is no longer necessary to want people to change or long for global social responsibility because we are participating in the remedies.

They provide a context for the Attention Economy to be experienced by many in a way that moves many into automated global social responsibility. The contents and ingredients of each SoulFood:Dish or SoulFood:Meal will help by offering among its menu remedies that support individuals in grieving aspects of the old as part of a transformation that grows from understanding the value of contrast instead of conflict...acceptance rather than denial which creates frustration.

What is SoulFood Tradition?

General or Social Level

The practical wisdom of this Soul Food Tradition method is that makes clearer the value of culture in contrast to heritage.

In the paper being developed currently I ask readers to consider the difference between heritage and culture. (If this interest you feel free to contact me about how you can read the paper when it's completed)

Soul Food emerges from oral traditions as a soulful tradition not be confused with an intellectual tradition. Rather than rely on known knowledge (intellectual tradition) it relies on the bridge between the intellect and creative intuition (soulful tradition) as am approach to developing new solutions for increasingly complex situations. Furthermore it provides illumination about how to do this with integrity (purity of ingredients), value for the individual, and appreciation for context.

Starting with the insights from Source:Acceptance

What is the essence of SoulFood?

Important dialogues are required to build the needed bridges and creativity tempered by good will is essential to accomplishing global social responsibility as a way of living/doing business. Has the time come to ask questions about the nature and roles of love and Attention in commerce?

Ron has used Spinoza's work to define Love in this context.

Spinoza:love

Love is joy accompanied with the idea of an external cause.

My observation has been...

Attention is the price we pay for love, then the SoulFood Tradition paradigm is a way infusing both love and attention into commerce by focusing on the place where they converge. The relationships that add value to a transaction...

This would seem to support the core of what this thread has revealed....everyone seems to more or less agree we need a more loving world and more meaningful interactions as that in a nutshell seems to be the teachings of most religions and the result of compassion and kindness.

What are your ideas on making kindness and compassion universal in a practical way...efficiently applied to world change?

Only the best!

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:33:45 GMT

Hey Domus...

What about empowering people on their personal level?

Meaning, I think it would have to be approached in a very open, flexible way so that no one is alienated.

I think compassion and kindness would be a symptom.... not necessarily a focus.

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://sunight.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 14:05:41 GMT

Sometimes the kind and compassionate thing is to let the 'natural consequenses' unfold. In this hypothetical situation, if the dishes aren't done, the cooking won't happen. And for awhile you would have to do things differently. Or speak with the others about the situation. You are doing the cooking, but you didn't offer to do the rest. Your responsibility is to yourself, whatever that looks like - sometimes we don't realize that we are in patterns that aren't really helpful to us. Kindness to others doesn't have to mean 'unkindness' to ourselves. "I mean you no harm, and I mean myself no harm as well." If the tables were turned, would you expect to 'carry your weight' of responsibility, or would you just eat the food and say thankyou, leaving the cook to do the cleanup?

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://onefriendwhomakesyoulaugh.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 11:54:31 GMT

Seeing kindness and compassion as just something you do,By not putting any demands on it ,without even thinking about it reallly.I think I understand where you feel tthere might be a lack of respect with your example but perhaps your act of kindness and compassion would really be to say how you feel to these people.Being kind and compassionate should never be about expecting to feel good or bad,it should be about just doing.

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://Domus-ulixes.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 10:17:00 GMT

I think if you suggestion 1. At least 50 percent of the world is going to think you are a retard. And it has already proven not to be very succesfull because some civilisations already lived with this idea in mind. And they still aren't compassionat or Kind. In fact they fight about cows, and other form of livestock. And basicly are not very keen of the Value of a human persons life...

And the second isn't much of a reason either. In fact I think strangers will in the beginning be hostile. If they do not have the trust for you, which they need for you to get up close and personal.

So what do I suggest?
Hmm.... difficult, difficult...
If we need to have compassion. We need to have strong shared interests. And we will need to have some basic respect for some people. And As I look at humans. I don't think the majority is ready for that. Basic respect for someone else. When I look at Rap, and Hiphop, Materialism. Religion, and nations... I see a lot of factors basicly opposing basic respect.
If we want basic respect.
We need to stop teaching, that our way. of Living, of religion, of believing. Is the only good way.
We need to stop with telling our people that this is the best. We need to stop letting our governemnt tell this is the best place to be, and the greatest nation to live in. Because it is not. And we need to stop to let the people we trust tell that their visions are better then those in the middle east. And Vice Versa. Because only then we can have an open Eye for different people. And then we at least have a clean slate to begin with... for starters...

About Kindness...
No don't have any answers for that. Kindness lies in biological social Hierarchy. Now unless we only have 1 gender, and everybody gay. there are no Biological Social changes to society we can make that will change that. But Compassion is a start. Perhaps different alternatives arise in the future.

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

Sat, 11 Aug 2007 06:25:57 GMT

"After all, if we don't realize that WE create our own security guidelines, we will allow others to affect us and overpower us, and worse, blame it on others when we are affected or overpowered."

That's exactly the point and it makes the difference between automatic habits and true compassion. Yes, I understand how you say that the dishes need to be done because cooking and cleaning takes ages if you do it alone.
But getting back to the compassion and kindness level of this discussion, your initial question was about a lack of respect for yourself when you don't expect anything in return. I hope with this link you will be able to see the difference. Please try to stay focused and don't let them crush your spirit. It is a challenge to stay kind when others don't treat you the way they should. But like I said, their behaviour is neither your fault not theirs. They just never learned it properly, and that is a reason to feel sorry for them (not necessarily pity, because I think pity is a judgmental emotion). The consequence is up to you, but try to keep a balance between giving and taking.

Best wishes

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://katrinamae.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 06:12:45 GMT

anything that feeds and nurtures my ego....
Hmmm, I thought long and hard about that one. My immediate thought was that they "thank" me each time, and I know it's sincere, but I don't feel like I need the dishes done to show me their appreciation, I feel I need the dishes done because it simply takes up too much time for me to have to do the damn things before cooking dinner. I may be missing something, I guess. It may be obvious, it may be exactly what you just said, but either way, I feel that you're right on "being true to yourself" having huge implications on how we are able to demonstrate compassion or kindness - in our household or outside of it.

After all, if we don't realize that WE create our own security guidelines, we will allow others to affect us and overpower us, and worse, blame it on others when we are affected or overpowered.

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

Sat, 11 Aug 2007 05:55:38 GMT

Katrina,

so I understand you are more or less attached to their appreciation and you feel upset when it doesn't show. Even more so when they make it worse by not helping with the dishes? I think your flatmates might have a good lesson for you.

Having a closer look at "doing without expecting anything in return", it might be helpful for you to read one of my older blog entries about this matter, especially AoSora's comment on it.
Anyway, "not expecting anything in return" should only mean "anything that feeds and nurtures my ego", because once that happens, if you become emotionally dependent on their appreciation (in the worst case), compassion and kindness are out the window. Awareness and detachment might be good tools to avoid this problem. Understand that for your own happiness you do not need their appreciation, but you enjoy it when you get it.

As for hurting their development with letting this happen, this is difficult for me to answer. If you address the matter once, twice, without result you might as well drop it. But you should keep looking after yourself. Learn from their behaviour and grow from it. In fact, this is a better result of cooking a meal than making them do the dishes, right? :-))

Best wishes

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://katrinamae.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 05:41:16 GMT

Chysallis, that was a wonderful answer to my question, thank you. Just so you know, I have do take the approach of speaking up for myself, garnering the respect I know i deserve - I hypothesized it the way I did because I've seen many people make the mistake of doing kind deeds "without anything in return," and that can be very self-deprecating, I know. to answer your question, I decided a long time ago that I cook because I have a passion for it - and if anyone else cooks that doesn't have the same passion, I know I'll find myself "wanting" for my cooking, so to avoid that situation of complaining about another's job, I do it myself. So I know that it is a selfish act at the same time that it is a loving act towards them. however, you make a great point about not being kind to them by being aware they are not learning a lesson of appreciation - and that is the current situation I am in: I can't allow myself to go on being selfish when I am now aware that it is hurting their development, can I? Or do I write it off as "not my responsibility," and continue cooking for me and my loved one, ackowledging our appreciation and ignoring their lack of appreciation?

Oh, hell! When the dyanmics are this confusing just in your own household, how audacious it is for us to tackle the compassion-dynamics of the rest of the world! ;) It is fascinating, to me, though, how all of the seemingly "small" matters in our personal life can be translated to the bigger picture of the rest of the world. :)

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

Sat, 11 Aug 2007 05:30:25 GMT

Katrina,

you're making a good point here. Kindness and compassion in a way that can get emotionally draining. Your flatmates are a difficult example for this concept. Do you cook for them because you think it makes them happier? Do you cook for them because you know if they had to look after themselves, they would be unhappier? I think you need to focus on the purpose of your cooking. I suppose you want your food to be appreciated, but it has become a habit and they take it for granted now?

I think compassion and kindess is in the best possible way linked with the wish to remove suffering from another human being. Suffering as small as a woman with her hands full of groceries and you open the door for her. Cooking for your flatmates might make life easier for them, but the overall benefit for them is not very positive anymore. They take you and your food for granted, and a negative situation has developed. I think it is good to address the problem. It would be good for you to speak up, Katrina, because you want to overcome this now and not get into the same behaviour with a husband and kids and develop resentment then, when it matters even more. Don't be afraid.

As a conclusion, from my point of view, when you are in a situation like this and you're not sure if you're becoming a doormat, ask yourself how much your actions do for someone else. I think they are not starving without your cooking. So you might as well interrupt the cycle. Compassion and kindess should spread happiness. When they don't, one needs to think about the motivation on both sides, yours and theirs. A proper thank you here and there is essential in life.

But then...being with them might be a lesson for you and for your development. You develop compassion for them, because they apparently grew up in an unfortunate environment which did not teach them to appreciate kindess and work. You develop gratitude because their behaviour is your chance to learn the value of appreciation, gratitude and kindness. And you learn how NOT to be a doormat. This will be very helpful once you have a husband and children.

Best wishes

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://katrinamae.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 05:13:30 GMT

Is never expecting anything in return what you truly meant there? That, to me, implies a lack of respect for yourself and the other person, a lack of honesty. What you said has such a poetic, beautiful element to it, that I almost forgot that everything I read should be put to practical use, immediately. So let me give an example:
Say I live with roommates - they are my current "family" - and I take on cooking dinner every night with the intention of cooking us an affordable, healthy, delicious meal, because I love to do it and they claim to love to eat it. however, they only partially help pick up after dinner, they pay as little as they can "get away with" for groceries, and they ask questions like, "is there gonna be meat in tonight's dinner?" now, both extreme approaches have been taken, kindness without wanting anything in return and snappiness at demanding they help, pay, and be appreciative. the middle ground, I feel , is to acknowledge their love for the good food, follow that by a stern, 'if you love the food, you'll keep it coming by cleaning up the kitchen for me,' and follow that with a sincere, 'thanks for tidying up.' that seems kind and compassionate, right? Well what if, after all that effort to come across "nicely" your roommates still take offense to you? Or you follow that approach, but they don't clean up because they find better things to do? By only letting it go, and not getting anything in return, you are fully being taken advantage of, and doing much more work, instead of your cooking being a labour of love, right? What is the answer in practical, real-life, everyday terms?

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://environsand.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 04:56:15 GMT

That is the key indeed -introducing it
to our children -
and especially leading by example.
Kids are kind to each other -unless
they are fighting over something , in which
case they really don't understand the concept of
being kind to someone else.
For that they need us to teach them and sadly
there are too many that are never taught kindesss
and compassion.
But -everybody hurts sometimes.

Re: Introducing Compassion and Kindness

http://Meenakshi.gaia.com — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 02:10:03 GMT

Cosmicdog, very interesting point about compassion and communication. You're right...if we talk down or up at someone; we may as well be talking through and around for all the good it does us.

All the unspoken thoughts get communicated louder than words.