Gaia Community

Lessons Learnt

GDW said Aug 5, 2007, 2:03 AM:

The best things about the Anglo-American Judiciary are that we have a presumption of innocence and anyone can have their day in court. Obviously there is a lot in between these two ideals, most of which raise negative thoughts and opinions.

After spending 7 years involved in the civil litigation process, i'm now working in the Consumer, Trader and Tenancy Tribunal. This Tribunal provides a place where people can bring a case and represent themselves (sometimes with assistance) in a comfortable unthreatening environment with only nominal costs.

The jurisdiction has many faults and is sometimes thought to be a bit of a toothless tiger, but I always tell people that it is still worth it, it's an amazing opportunity to seek out your differences without resorting to expensive litigation. The best part of the Tribunal is the conciliation process, I always tell people that the Tribunal is not necessarily a great place for justice or large amounts of money, but it is a great place to come to an agreement. If conciliation is not succesful the parties can each make their case and an Arbitrator will determine based on the facts presented and the relevant law. No lawyers, no costly delays, quick determinations….it's a great place.

Some of this needs to be carried over into our system because regularly people change their mind and when that decision affects anothers rights, there needs to be a way to address that.

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Re: Lessons Learnt

Keith said Aug 5, 2007, 5:58 AM:

Perhaps, Grant, we could combine the role of Council of Elders, as written on the Politics board, with that of judiciary?

Maybe have some elders serve as over-all sounding-boards and others as arbitrators to help settle disputes. Again, in a totally non-governmental and mutually agreed upon by all parties fashion.

I really like the idea of listening to and utilizing those among us who have life experiences and wisdom to share.

Thoughts?

Re: Lessons Learnt

Chrysalis [no longer around] said Aug 5, 2007, 2:00 PM:

I'm not a citizen of the US of A, but I lived in Germany for 28 years. And I can say in this system it has become a habit going to court. I could call you a %$#&* or whatever and you would sue me. “You hear from my lawyer” is just like saying hello and how are you. :-) It has become interesting to watch how people need others to solve an argument for them. And it's not much more than that. A german saying goes “Being right and and winning in court are two different matters.” Do lawyers get educated in justice or in winning a case?

Here where I live now, it seems to be different. And it's a fragile system. I have heard of people blowing a whole law suit, because when asked “how do you plea”, they said “I don't plea”. There was nothing the judge could have done about it.

I think apart from the big matters like homicide, rape, child abuse…we shouldn't really need a court to solve our problems, more a better understanding of whatever harms you or others is wrong and needs to be avoided.

Just my 2 cents
Best wishes

Re: Lessons Learnt

Keith said Aug 5, 2007, 2:37 PM:

So, Chrysalis, you would advocate something along the lines of a body of arbitration?

I think I mentioned earlier (maybe in this thread or perhaps another) that a special Council of Elders might be used for such purposes, in lieu of a traditional court.

I can see this as being very beneficial.

Re: Lessons Learnt

Chrysalis [no longer around] said Aug 5, 2007, 4:17 PM:

You know what I see as beneficial? That we don't even have the need for this discussion, because everybody learns to respect everybody else.
I hear that some crimes are due to a chemical problem in the criminal's mind, so they can't be prevented or avoided. But if it's just neighbourly disagreements, come on. Do what you want as long as it doesn't harm you or anyone else. It's not difficult.
Such a council of elders might still be necessary though to make decisions for the benefit of the community. A lot of people with different needs and opinions, living together…of course we get the social interaction and decisions need to be made. Democracy. But that belongs to the politics section of the pod, not the law section.

Re: Lessons Learnt

Keith said Aug 5, 2007, 5:03 PM:

There's a lot of overlap with the threads, I'm seeing.

Cannot ever see not having some form of arbitration or judicial body to facilitate settling of conflict. With an ever-increasing world population, this need will only intensify.

Re: Lessons Learnt

Chrysalis [no longer around] said Aug 5, 2007, 5:32 PM:

“Cannot ever see not having some form of arbitration or judicial body to facilitate settling of conflict. With an ever-increasing world population, this need will only intensify”

Well…I think I'm gonna die trying then anyway. :-)) Nothing wrong with trying, right?

Re: Lessons Learnt

Keith said Aug 5, 2007, 5:42 PM:

Yes, my friend … You try with all your might. Perhaps in time I may share the vision and quest you have. Do it with passion and with love.

: )

Re: Lessons Learnt

Chrysalis [no longer around] said Aug 5, 2007, 6:12 PM:

Keith, you crack me up. It's really not that difficult. Follow your own judgment before you follow billions of books about law (not justice) which tell you what to do. Ideally your own healthy consciousness can tell you what to do, which is not to harm others. And because this is a common human attribute…to have this consciousness….it should be possible to unite humanity. And it's an old idea, from Buddha to Jesus up to Immanuel Kant's “Kategorischer Imperativ”. And why do I think it is possible? Because everybody wants to be happy, and not harming anyone would make everyone of us happier. Ah well…how do I always slip into these rants? Damn you. :-)))

Best wishes

Re: Lessons Learnt

Keith said Aug 5, 2007, 6:59 PM:

LOL! Only you Chrysalis can make me laugh while you're having a minor fit!!!

A good fit, mind you.

One of the purposes for this pod is to create a small community of like-minded people to discuss, digest, condense, and agree on workable plans to achieve certain goals or objectives.

At this very early stage, we have to ascertain what our specific objectives should be.

You mention justice, as opposed to law. Wonderful!!!! I agree!!!

How do we work toward this admirable goal?

Re: Lessons Learnt

Chrysalis [no longer around] said Aug 5, 2007, 9:13 PM:

Keith, 'm sure you agree that already after 2 days the idea of a “small community” has positively failed. But it's yet unclear how many will participate and how many just enjoy reading the posts.
I think, from my point of view, my main goal has to be to raise awareness for the needs of everyone. Not the survival needs like water or food. But the emotional needs, like love, peace and kindness. In fact that's what I try to do each day.

There are people with a busy day or who lack the intellectual capacity for a discussion about it, but they learn awareness if you treat them alright. You smile and they feel good. That's a seed.
Others who are…let's say…a bit more intelligent, they get the smiles too but you can actually talk to them as well. You can show and demonstrate how their feelings work and how their happiness grows. Those are potentially able to multiply the seed. I do that too. In life and on Zaadz. Sometimes I fail, but often I am successful. This is how I start. Spreading compassion everyday. And once there are enough people aware of compassion and happiness, they are also aware of how not to harm others, to care about how others feel. And THAT would be what makes law, courts and police futile.
I admit it's an idealistic goal, but it's a goal, and you have to start somewhere.

Best wishes

Re: Lessons Learnt

Keith said Aug 6, 2007, 7:43 PM:

I'm afraid I will have to agree with you on every word, especially when you state this as being idealistic.

Do you honestly feel our global society is ready to jettison laws, courts, our entire judicial system? I don't feel we're there yet. I most certainly would like to be alive to see that day arrive, though.

Re: Lessons Learnt

Chrysalis [no longer around] said Aug 6, 2007, 11:26 PM:

Oh Keith, no I don't think society is ready. But you know what? Just because the current system is the best we know, it isn't necessarily the best that can be created and installed. I don't think I will live to see it either, but you really need to start somewhere.

In fact maybe it's a good idea to create another corner in this pod that is dedicated to threads encouraging the participants of this pod to stay enthusiastic about the goal. I know, at times we all get a bit tired and less energetic about all this because results take so long to manifest. Let's keep each other going with a common energy.

Best wishes