Alternative Views

Is the Big Bang theory now the new creationist model?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl3Uj2UJjPA

Is Man Caused Global Warming an agenda to impose a carbon tax and New World Order?

http://www.garagetv.be/video-galerij/blancostemrecht/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle_Documentary_Film.aspx

WE have accepted these things as FACT, without question. It's time to take another look, and decide.

with love,

sara

Re: Alternative Views

Sara,
You are raising some important Questions.

Global warming is the big red herring our our century. When an issue is embraced by the establishment and its mouthpiece, the popular media, it is indeed “time to take another look”.

What is not realised in sufficient detail by the climate skeptics is that “it's the economy, stupid”.
It is not global warming that is threatening the earth's ability to support us, but the rapacious economic system this primitive version of capitalism is maintaining.

The question of Big Bang is another issue — a modern genesis story for the modern mind, just as the Genesis account of creation was a story adequate for the peoples of those bygone times.

In my opinion, it would be a mistake and diversion to attach the same kind of harmfulness to the Big Bang deception as the one perpetrated by the climate change lobby. This is because I do not think that the big bang view has the direct impact of diminishing political and economic liberty.

Nevertheless, the video is very interesting.

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On the contrary, challenging the scientific community does have an impact on true economic freedom.

The CERN collider cost 6.5 billion. For what? Really, what USE? Even Stephen Hawkings thinks it's a big flop. Europeans AND Americans paid with their tax dollars. So this type of socialism is OK and feeding starving children is not?

NASA and other “space agencies” around the world spend billions sending probes to Mars, etc… For WHAT? HOW does this benefit humanity? Really? Truly? Who benefits?

We should consider that one major player is at work here, one of the same players that instigates and profits from war… and 9/11… Raytheon.

Raytheon is also involved in another very expensive tax sponsored project called the National Polar-orbiting Operational Environmental Satellite System (NPOESS) network.

ALL of this is connected to just a few groups. We need to expose these players, and the lies that permeate our culture to it's very core, so that we can really be free of ALL their fascist tricks.

And also, if we don't break ourselves free of this new order of the lab coat (instead of the cloth) then we'll never know freedom from manipulation.

with love,

sara

Re: Alternative Views

Absolutely agrees with Sara/ Gypster. She has hit the nail on its head. RAYTHEON must be exposed.
Good work there. Love n Light
Jagan R

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I must differ. Cern cost indeed 6.5 Billion Euro's. And for what? Well, the most biggest and highest advanced piece of science ever made. And it is been made out of pure science, so, there is nobody gaining a profit. It is a giant collaboration project from scientists in dozens of countries. Paying minimal costs. One F22 raptor fighterjet costs about as much as its bombload. (133 million) And the American war budget has cost america. War costs so much more.
And why would we spend it on science? Well, then people finish the standard model. But that little money, is a bargain for all the peace, and bonds created between countries because of the project.

Probes to mars?
What would have happened if we didn't invest in science? We wouldn't be here now, we wouldn't even be haveing this conversation. As the matter of fact, Earth wouldn't be able to support half of the population it is in today. Science expands, knowledge expands, until we find propper ways to apply it.
A scientist researches new grounds, it tries to help the future. He isn't busy trying to improve his own life now, he knows he can do better, to provide options for people in the future. Sure, it won't help society now, but in the future, it might just support a billion marsian inhabitants. Would they lynch you, if you would try to stop their home from being explorer?

If you dislike Raytheon, what on earth are you doing critising CERN For?!?!?!

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Here is a disagreement developing between people supporting and condemning basic scientific research (space/subatomic–looking at the largest and smallest extremes of physical reality).

Lets keep the discussion civil and remember that the purpose of a discourse is to get nearer to the truth, not to win arguments.

I have to admit that the simplistic objection that all that money should be spent on more useful things is simplistic. The money will not be better spent because the decision making systems in society are non-democratic.

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And here is why all great experiments fail.

peace.

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I really do not understand what you mean with that. Could you perhaps clarify or elaborate? I would creatly appreciate it :)

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An exchange viewpoints can be the means whereby all participants step nearer the truth. But willingness to declare where we are coming from (our current agendas) is essential.
What is behind these apparently anti-science views? Is it creationism, recently renamed to “intelligent design”, or a more general mistrust of rational (reason based) investigation of phenomena?

Researching the deep mysteries of the universe (created or self-evolved) does cost a lot of money. But it is a lot less than what the world spends on chewing gum, make up cosmetics, booze, etc.

PS
Remember that there are eleven other “problemspaces” on our round table.

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I kind of was talking to Gypster, sorry.

Re: Alternative Views

Well friends, (Like McCain)
I think scientific research and development is always essential for betterment of Human population. Science does incredible things for us to live in a better environment– we just PRESUME that, at any given time or phase. Once we have evolved from that position, everything done isn't completely wasted nor is Obsolete.

But, somewhere in what Gypster has pointed out companies such as Raytheon and CERN, I find an iota of truth there, that at a time when the World is plunged into an economic threat of a “Really phenomenal nature” Scientific research and Development can be “Postponed till the Economy had revived completely”
Look at what India is doing now? Going to Moon now? After almost how many 68 different missions? and what was the outcome of Moon missions by the other countries? Did they find Water on moon, good enough for us to start a Moon base there? Or what about providing SANITATION to app Public in even the MAJOR Metropolitan cities in India? Even today, in cities such as Mumbai, Bangalore and Chennai, when we as International travellers (I am from India, by the way, so I am NOT condemning my own Govt or their policies, but pointing out what COULD be done in a better and better timed way)
The current moon mission that too an UNMANNES mission has cost Indian budget 80 Million Dollars, when per capita income of an Indian family is between 5,000 to 10,000 a year… People like farmers who are dying, committing suicide because the Govt gives away Subsidies to Coca Cola and Pepsi, providing them (Potable and drinking) Water at 4 Rupees a gallon, while farmers were getting it at 16 Rs a Gallon–imagine their plight. Then they had severe electricity shortage as well.

Now, coming to your point of “The biggest ever Scientific Experiment” –Wow, what a statement!!! In science There is NOTHING Biggest ever, as every experiment is based first on “Hypothesis and Theory” then not ONLY does scientific experiment tries to prove that a “Chicken is a Chicken” but also “That it ISN'T something else” THAT is the zone where human greed and corruption comes in.

Actually what Gypster is saying is VERY true, specially taking into account the “Nexus” angle between such corporate houses. Why is that Critical? Companies such as Raytheon and CERN have never gone into Losses, they are supposed to be Research and Development companies for “Defense purposes” but they have grown into Millions or Billions of profit making organizations.

The experiment itself is based on a very thin line of hypothesis which Stephen Hawking has already stated “Would fail” They are trying to take a peek into the time zone “Which COULD have caused a Big Bang” in our “Relative Past” Mind you, I say Relative because of how TIME functions. Time is neither cyclic nor linear, it is a Scalar element. Time only comes into BEING-NESS when WE compute it.

If we first KNOW conclusively that “We did have a Big Bang” in our Past, that can give us an impetus to try such an experiment, even if it is just a Laboratory experiment, to validate it. But, we surely don't know about the Big Bang yet. All we have are based on theories and hypothesis, which won't be proven by any scientist in at least 5000 to 10,000 years from now. In my humble opinion, that same money could have been judiciously used for eradicating poverty and genocides in places such as Darfur and other African countries.

The fact of the matter stands – Those who REALLY commit bigger crimes on human race always go either Unpunished by a faulty law system or they go unnoticed.

Look at what Ted Stevens is doing? He is defying Seven verdicts on him, that are screaming “Guilty” and if he is saying that the “Court Verdict is not good enough” then, Why do we even have trials, courts and Police?
Imagine a Felony commited by a Common man? He will be sent to jail for 24 years, 250 years as if he is going to live that long!!!! and Ted Stevens walks away with a PENSION of 122,000 even if he is GUILTY of Corruption while being a Member of the Congress for 30 years or over.

Think carefully and NOT in a biased way, with Science and scientific research being the MOST essential thing on earth. There are pelnty of other priorities as well. Just listen to the latest by the TV news agencies– There is a risk to the health of Fetuses because of the Plastic bottles used for Drinking water and Soda. This is going to be the NEW scare, that will Divert us from some FLAW in the system, which will ELECT the NEW President, even if he was ACTUALLY going to lose. In 2000, Bush won by FRAUDULENT practices as abetted by Diebold. This time Diebold is still in function under a different name. How curious?
AND you say, Scientific elements are ALWAYS for the Higher good of human race?
One day or the other CERN will come up with its “Total failure notice” soon. Good luck to them though, it is “Virtually impossible” for us to Re-create what nature has so beautifully done in the past, distant past…as we see it from “Here and Now”
Peace, Best
JR

Re: Alternative Views

Actually, CERN is an organisation of currently 20 countries collaborating. And isn't a company. CERN is also (by the way) the beginning of the world wide web.

Going to the moon is something only americans have done (human-wize) it is more a technological development, and cultural prestige. And yes, besides Helium-3 the moon is rahter worthless.

I agree that it is silly that India spends money on such projects, whereas the money should be used for more humanitarian needs. This is however entirely a political debate.

And perhaps you should be condeming your own governement. I know I would if my governement would do this shit to my people.

Please CERN is an organisation! It has released the World Wide Web as an open-source program! They could have made a fortune, but instead made sure it was free for everyone to use! They are not profit bound, for they are fully subsideses by the participating European countries.

Time isn't scalar, according to Einstein's theory of relativity. It is actually a differential equation. (don't know what order)

Again, CERN research has nothing to do with the Big bang. (it has to do with explaining mass inside the current standard model. by using the Higgs field). In CERN nothing is created that isn't already created by nature on a daily basis. We are just pinpointing the proces in a place where we know we can observe it.
Please stop listening to people that only spread fear! There is nothing to be afraid of.

But if you prefer to be afraid and ignorant, rather then calm and knowing. Then you are on the wrong site!
(Spundana, this last 2 alinea's are nothing against you personal. But against all the people that scream the world will come to an end etc.)

And science will never re-create the Big bang, because we cannot recreate something that we will never know exists now can we? It is an enigma. And therefore too open for speculation.

Re: Alternative Views

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No, of course at the moment it doesn't need to. However this project has been going on for very very long. And most of its budget was made up before the economical crisis. Aborting, or stopping the experiments now. Would be much more expensive then keeping it going. For instance, we would need to stop the cooling of the ring. And it in fact takes 3 months to cool it down again! Keeping it online and ready for experimentation, is simply cheaper. Since scientist work there for free, there is no sense in not experimenting.

Well I don't know where Einstein's relativity theory should or shouldn't hold up, I am more of a quantum mechanic, so this field of physics really isn't my bight.

I personally do not see what difference there would be in the outcome whether we did, or didn't go to the moon. I do know that it is quite a waste of time, writing, thinking and financing conspiricy theories whether we went there or not. The good thing is of course, that any person with something of a decent telescope can see the Moonlander for themselves. Then again, if we can put robots on mars which is hundreds of times further away… well.

Paying 25 million dollars to vist a 'space traveller is quite a stupid way to spend your money, because for only 25 million dollars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Space_Station#Space_tourism
you can have a few days of holiday in space yourself…

Good question, you could examine them for truth. On the other hand, you could also examine the contents, say a few inner air jumps.
Just take 10 inner air jumps (of astronauts) it is simple, there most be loads of footage. Follow their center of mass, and asses the time it took them to jump that far useing the motion they made. you will most likely see a perfect classical represntation of a gravity much lower than that of earth. I think that if you will do that in all of the footage you can find, you will most likely see, that all of the moving pictures have this same gravitational pull. Without modern computer simulations, that is impossible to make. Or just look at the dust. That seriously is undoable.

Though I can imagine you are weary of it. (I have looked into some of the footage just now. ) If it were a fake, then makeing such a great fake, would be more of a scientific achievement, then to actually go to the moon.

Re: Alternative Views

Alternative views well , there is so much money wasted, on things that need not focus on. My belief is to focus on alternative ways in science , factors stress, our world , and the people.
Some major changes , and things have got to stop ASAP , and it will take a hell of a person to stand up to the world and tell them to stop.
We have focus our monies our studies in these factors , stress , and wellness.Our world our Gaia , she continues to give us gifts for free , and we continue to slowly kill her. What kind of message can we star doing to fix her , and love her , and nurture her . Stop and think , write things down that you can do now !
Lets focus our energies on good ways we can generate monies rather than poor ways.
Lets do this here collabrate links to healthy altenative ways , so we can team up , and help our Gaia , and be well , and heal…
Love you all heaps,
L