108

Hi Janos, I'll just reply here ok?

While I wouldn't know an epistemological methodology from a pile of horse manure, I think I follow what you're saying. Yes, I do see a lot of value, even a kind of necessity, in having some sort of holistic, integral model of society.

I'll try to describe what I was alluding to earlier, at least in broad strokes. The language is provisional.

In one dimension, there is a threefold division into Self, Tribe (circle of interpersonal relations) and World, which forms a generic basis for viewing organizational structure. In another dimension, there is a fourfold division that corresponds to the four elements; in terms of human society, these would be Labour, Economy, Law and Education.

So, there are seven (3+4) basic principles that form the core of the geometry of vision.

However, the fourfold division is a little simplistic; it's full form is a division into 12.

Education includes Science, Religion and Philosophy
Law includes Legislative, Administrative and Executive functions

These ones are clear; the following may need to be rebalanced:

Economy includes Values, Culture and Exchange
Labour includes Service, Health and Ecology


The division into three is also basic; its full form is 9 (3x3).

We might say:

World from the point of view of World
World from the point of view of Tribe
World from the point of view of Self
Tribe from the point of view of World
…etc…

Combining the two categories (9 x 12) reveals 108 fundamental  dimensions of social dynamics. Assigning them all equal weight and importance (which is inevitable since they are all seen simultaneously and arise out of each other) provides a framework for (possibly) dealing intelligently with social matters in a unified and integrated way.

Interestingly, the same model is equally applicable to other areas, such as human psychology and spiritual development, with a slight reframing (but with the same essential geometry and elemental qualities).

I know this description is far from complete and leaves much to be desired, just a quick sketch since you asked.

More importantly though, each of these 108 dimensions are capable of evolution and self-development - and this development and evolution are, consciously or otherwise, the central goal and drift of society as a whole.

I think part of the value in elaborating models like this is to make that purpose Conscious and to provide our limited minds with some means of dealing coherently with what often appear to be unrelated opposites or antagonistic tendencies.

Re: 108

In one dimension,

there is a threefold division into Self, Tribe (circle of interpersonal relations) and World, which forms a generic basis for viewing organizational structure.

In another dimension, there is a fourfold division that corresponds to the four elements; in terms of human society, these would be Labour, Economy, Law and Education.

 “Geometry of vision”. I like this term

Would the “triads” within the fourfold division be a third dimenision of a of a three dimensional (cuboid) “vision space”?

Just playing with the elements:

Self

         Labour

         Economy

         Law

         Education

Tribe

         Labour

         Economy

         Law

         Education

World

         Labour

         Economy

         Law

         Education

 Not sure what this gives

 Have you a visual sketch of the scheme you are developing?

Re: 108

Not sure what this gives.

On its own, nothing, obviously. A meaningless intellectual exercise, perhaps. It does seem rather childish.

At its core it is a kind of meta-theory or meta-view of existence and life as a whole. Diversity and unity resolved in mutual accord without abrogating one to the other.

Normally we govern ourselves both individually and collectively according to a fragmented consciousness, narrowly confined to a more or less limited scope of time and circumstance.

But humanity is growing into its cosmic self and will one day achieve a self-government of enlightened universal self-interest; then these kinds of views might be of more practical interest. For now it is a more or less pointless exercise.

Think of it though, if each person on the planet – or even a small powerful minority – chose to balance their personal needs with their community's needs and the needs of the earth as a whole, if this was our individual and collective concept and feeling of self-interest, what would the result be?

Give at a few hundred years, and we'll talk about it again…

Re: 108

Hi janos and Arinaya

My quick thought on this division or dimension of self, tribe, world from interpersonal relation and its expression in human systems and relations …labour, law, economy, education can be framed in a more holistic way when we see humanity transpersonally as one collective body-mind one organism in relationship with other non-human life forms plant, animals, minerals, elements or the deep ecology of the planet or planetary body of which humanity (as one body-mind) is one part. If humanity is the brain of planetary body, in order to sustain itself …it needs to be wise and intelligent and not be suicidal or addicted to destructive behavior.

My way of building intelligent, wise and compassionate socio-economic systems and cultures of peace is to create a sustainable debt-free currency of peace (currency as “a tool of communication” as I define it).

Currency of debt is a tool of war, injustice, terrorism of the rich and cunning over the poor, educated, yet ignorant (which include all of us, as far a monetary litercay goes). A deep awareness is necessary. See more on my blog Deep Conscious Capitalism